Re: [Biofuel] 90 litre reactor details published.

[Keith Addison]

Hi Joe

Glad the course went well.

>Hi Mike;
>
>I taught a course over the weekend at a local organic farm and we built
>one of my 90 litre vacuum processors.  I would have liked to have a CD
>like that to hand out.  I couldn't get into process much as it took the
>whole weekend for us to build a system.  I will teach a second course on
>processing but I think in future I would like to combine build and
>process workshops and I think I can do this if we have the reactor frame
>welded by someone outside the course ahead of time. It would be nice if
>everyone was able to walk away with a CD that contained all the reactor
>building documentation as well as a reference on process. At this point
>I feel like I am running out of steam and I want some of the summer to
>do some flying but even if I was to sit down and write something out
>myself it would still end up being a regurgitation of all the wisdom I
>have garnered here and on J2F.  Not direct plagiarism perhaps but on the
>other hand I don't have the hart at the moment to sit down and start
>writing. I need to sky out for a while. If anyone on the list is
>interested in compiling something for free distribution, it would be
>great and I'd like to know about it.
>
>Joe

Joe, plagiarism aside, it's superfluous. We've pretty much 
established that all you need is a reference. This one:

>Start here:
>"Where do I start?"
>http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start
>
>Follow the instructions, step by step. Study everything on that page 
>and the next page and at the links in the text. It tells you 
>everything you need to know. If you have further questions, search 
>the 65,000+ previous messages in the Biofuel list archives:
>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>biofuel
>
>If you still have further questions, you can ask the Biofuel list.

Best

Keith


 

>Mike Weaver wrote:
>
> > In all seriousness, I wonder if we could just offer a cheap CD or PDF of
> > open source plans on Ebay for 2.00 or 3.00 dollars.
> > I personally buy "free" software on CD for 5-7 dollars just because it's
> > easy and saves me money and time.  I don't begrudge someone charging a
> > nominal fee to download, burn a CD, and package it it with
> > documentation.  I am willing to pay for the convenience.  What is wrong
> > is passing of JtF stuff as your own, and charging a fortune for it.  The
> > key is that you can't charge for the info, just the CD and printing.
> > Have a look at http://www.cheapbytes.com/
> >
> > I made my own BD notebook of info from all over the 'net - some JtF,
> > some other places.  Whatever made sense.  I wouldn't sell it, though.
> > people can copy it for free.
> >
> > -Weaver
> >
> > raymond greeley wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Hello, i believe you can offer multiple instructions at a determined price
> >>on ebay, i have seen things this way. where is your teachingfacility. i
> >>would be interested assuming i would need to travel.
> >>I will review the online plans before i write back. I am in chicago and did
> >>have several travel plans
> >>scheduled this summer and might be able to include a stop to visiit your
> >>work. I have people here that woudl be interested in doing a cooperative
> >>reactor in chicago.
> >>are you doing any diesel auto adaption for wvo.
> >>thanks, ray
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>From: Joe Street <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>>Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> >>>To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> >>>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] 90 litre reactor details published.
> >>>Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 14:30:14 -0400
> >>>
> >>>I don't know anything about ebay or how it works.  Could I auction it to
> >>>the lowest bidder?
> >>>
> >>>;)
> >>>Joe
> >>>
> >>>Mike Weaver wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> You could post a copy of the plans on Ebay but offer it for a penny.
> That would put a stop to the ripoffs.
> 
> Joe Street wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >Hello everyone;
> >
> >I have finally published the details and construction manual for the 90
> >litre version of my system which I have upscaled from the 30 litre
> >prototype. All info is copylefted of course but I hope people will check
> >it out and give me some feedback. If anyone on this list ever notices my
> >work being sold anywhere (like ebay) please let me know so I can take
> >action. Here is the link:
> >
> >http://www.nonprofitfuel.ca/90%20Liter%20Reactor%20build%20manual.pdf
> >
> >This is the system we are going to use in our local cooperative. I am
> >teaching a course this weekend based on this system.  15 students are
> >registered.  I hope it goes well.
> >
> >Joe


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz l

[Biofuel] Biodiesel for mass transport in India at last!

[D.V Subramanian]

Hello members,
Some progress! with bio diesel in India reported in 
http://indianexpress.com/story/6734.html

But I feel it's not fast enough to keep pace with rising cost of petrofuel.

  Regards to one and all and in particular to Mr Keith whose energy in
tracking and presenting fuel & related scenario is amazing.

DVS
___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] DIE MICRO$OFT!!!!

[chem.dd]

Depends what you mean by control. The Mac OS is now based on UNIX you cant
find a more stable or well documented OS. The new Macs are now running on
Intel duel processors so the old addage that "my favorate software isn't
writtin for Macs" is no longer valid. Mac lets you get into the Unix kernel
and control all you want or can.
The only possibe downside is now that the Mac is "Mactel" will it become
more susceptible to windows focused attacks.
Just out of currosity when was the last time you looked at a Mac?
David
- Original Message - 
From: "Jason& Katie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 8:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] DIE MICRO$OFT


> ;P i like the control a pc offers. my experiences with mac werent exactly
> the best
>
> Jason
> ICQ#:  154998177
> MSN:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] (most likely to get me)
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "chem.dd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 5:31 AM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] DIE MICRO$OFT
>
>
> > Dont go half way, relax and just buy a MAC.
> > David
> > - Original Message - 
> > From: "Jason& Katie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: 
> > Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 7:40 PM
> > Subject: [Biofuel] DIE MICRO$OFT
> >
> >
> >> i finally cracked to the point where i went to bed angry last night. M$
> >> is
> >> really tweaking my tail and ive decided to take on the Hat. Linux
FEDORA,
> >> here i come!!!
> >> Jason
> >> ICQ#:  154998177
> >> MSN:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] (most likely to get me)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -- 
> >> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> >> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.0/368 - Release Date:
6/16/2006
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Biofuel mailing list
> >> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> >>
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
> >>
> >> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> >> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> >>
> >> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
> > messages):
> >> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
> >>
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Biofuel mailing list
> > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> >
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
> >
> > Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> >
> > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
> > messages):
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
> >
> >
> > -- 
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.0/368 - Release Date: 6/16/2006
> >
> >
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.0/368 - Release Date: 6/16/2006
>
>
> ___
> Biofuel mailing list
> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages):
> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] DIE MICRO$OFT!!!!

[chem.dd]

I recently bought a Mac Mini , about $500, for my son and wife to use.
Connected to a cheap but good flat pannel display, non mac. They love it and
it never crashes.
You no longer need 3 grand to get into a Mac.
David
- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Weaver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 7:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] DIE MICRO$OFT


> Not cheap, but great machines
>
> chem.dd wrote:
>
> >Dont go half way, relax and just buy a MAC.
> >David
> >- Original Message - 
> >From: "Jason& Katie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: 
> >Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 7:40 PM
> >Subject: [Biofuel] DIE MICRO$OFT
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>i finally cracked to the point where i went to bed angry last night. M$
is
> >>really tweaking my tail and ive decided to take on the Hat. Linux
FEDORA,
> >>here i come!!!
> >>Jason
> >>ICQ#:  154998177
> >>MSN:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] (most likely to get me)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>-- 
> >>No virus found in this outgoing message.
> >>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >>Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.0/368 - Release Date: 6/16/2006
> >>
> >>
> >>___
> >>Biofuel mailing list
> >>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>
>>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
> >>
> >>Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> >>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> >>
> >>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
> >>
> >>
> >messages):
> >
> >
> >>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >___
> >Biofuel mailing list
> >Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> >http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
> >
> >Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> >
> >Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages):
> >http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ___
> Biofuel mailing list
> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages):
> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Freakonomics - in defence of

[Doug Turner]

Hi Robert

I'm afraid that I have to disagree your general dismissal of Levitt &
Dubner's book Freakonomics.  Not all of the book was particularly gripping
but I thought the book provided ammunition for both the conservative and
liberal camps.  The correlation between legalize abortion in the US and the
dramatic decline in some crime rates was controlled for other factors such
as increased police budgets, stiffer penalties, altered policing methods,
etc. yet Levitt was still able to attribute a large majority of the
diminished crime rate to legalized abortion.  For me, the argument clincher
was that several states legalized abortion before Roe vs. Wade and those
states had crime rates fall before the rest of the country.  The author even
stated that legalize abortion was clearly not the direct cause of a decline
in the crime rate.  Rather Levitt proposed that perhaps children who were
not rejected at birth by their parents are more likely behave in a socially
condoned manner.

Nor was all of the research in the book based strictly on correlational
analysis.  The section dealing with drug dealers who live with their mothers
was based on evidence obtained from some sociological fieldwork that
recovered a detailed set of accounting books and records used by a MBA grad
turned drug kingpin.

I do agree with you that most present day economists are in an extreme state
of denial regarding their relationship to moral issues.  That doesn't
necessarily mean that the analytical tools they have developed over the
years cannot be used for good.  The burgeoning fields of ecological and true
cost economics are two examples of the application of the statistical
economic tools being used to address some of the issues that concern many
people on this list.  I just hope that they hurry up and spread the word a
little faster, actually a lot faster.  You may want to check out this link
as a place to start
http://adbusters.org/metas/eco/truecosteconomics/economists.html

Doug

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of robert and
benita rabello
Sent: June 20, 2006 12:38 AM
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Freakonomics


Darryl McMahon wrote:

>There is an oblique reference to this in the archives.  I have just
>finished reading the book, and recommend that people put it on their
>reading lists.  (No time like the present to get on your public
>library's waiting list.)
>
>

Yes, I think I'm the one who referenced it.  This is one of my
stockbroker sister's favorite books.

>I thoroughly enjoyed the book, even learned a thing or two.  I was aware
>of the gun-related items, but I had not previously made the crime rate
>drop connection in the U.S. with Roe vs. Wade.
>

The causal relationships the author mentions are tangential, at
best.  I'm sure a correlation can be made with the drop in crime rate
versus GDP too.  In fact, I'll bet you could correlate a drop in crime
rate with the introduction of Viagra . . .

>Nice piece of de-spinning work.  So many more subjects need more such
>treatment.
>
>

It's a great book for NeoCons.

> From the epilogue:
>"But the fact of the matter is that Freakonomics-style thinking
>simply doesn't traffic in morality.  As we suggested near the beginning
>of this book, if morality represents an ideal world, then economics
>represents the actual world.
>
>

If only we had reliable numbers . . .  If only we could tabulate how
much it REALLY costs to rape the environment, destroy human life and
elevate the welfare of the wealthy over the welfare of the poor.  At its
core, morality IS economics, but the paradigm is upside down.

>"The most likely result of having read this book is a simple one: you
>may find yourself asking a lot of questions.  Many of them will lead to
>nothing.  But some will produce answers that are interesting, even
>surprising."
>
>

Or entirely stupid.  Take your pick!

Sorry Darryl, but I'm simply NOT impressed . . .


robert luis rabello
"The Edge of Justice"
Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.newadventure.ca

Ranger Supercharger Project Page
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

[Biofuel] Fuel oil or bunker No. 6

[Centro de Asistencia Tecnica A.]

Hi, I would like to know if the industrial furnaces and boilers that
work with heavy fuels, also known as fuel oil or bunker No. 6 can work
with biodiesel, SVO or WVO. Where can I get this information? 

Federico

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Help needed!

[Thomas Kelly]

Charles,
 Then creamy canola it is.

 It sounds as though you are getting a reaction  .
methanol test tells us it is not complete.

 Could be the KOH

 I have gotten new caustic that was not the concentration the seller (or 
the bag) said it was.

 Do you have (or can you get) a sample of KOH (or NaOH) of known purity?
 You could titrate a sample of the WVO with the caustic of known purity 
and then titrate the same oil w. the new, questionable KOH. A comparison of 
the titrations on the same WVO would indicate its purity.
 I would do it like this: (corrections appreciated)
1. Divide the titration for the known by the titration for the
unknown.  (Titration is inverse to concentration)
2. Multiply result by the conc. of the known.

Ex: Known KOH is 85% and titration = 3.0 g/L
  "Unknown" KOH titrates  3.6 g/L

1. 3.0 divided by  3.6  =  0.8
2. 0.8  X  .85   =   .708
"Unknown" =  70.8%  KOH

 If the Known caustic is NaOH, then multiply its titration by 1.4  prior 
to step 1.

You wrote:
"Bottom layer (20%) is solid and dark redy- brown (glycerine I hope) then 
thin layer (5%) what looks like
unreacted oil, then rest is dark brown "bio".  It passes the wash test and 
the third wash leaves clean water underneath and brown "bio" on top. The 
"bio" also leaves about 20-30% residue in the methanol test."

Bottom layer:  glycerine, I think
Top layer:   biodiesel + unreacted glycerides (that
  precipitate out in the methanol test)
Middle layer: soaps?3.6g KOH/L WVO titration
  suggests you will get some soap, but I think
  5% is a bit high ... especially if you are not
  using enough caustic.
   Could there be water in the oil (does it sizzle/pop when heated?)
Be patient.
Check the KOH.
Heat a sample of the oil. Stir it ... be careful, if there's water in it 
will spatter.
 Hang in there,
   Tom
P.S.
 What % biodiesel do you intend to burn in your boiler?
 Any adjustments to the burner (pressure, nozzle, air flow?)
 (Just curious)

- Original Message - 
From: "Charles List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 6:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help needed!


> Hi Tom
>
> Right, feel I'm making some progress. After a very cold night (-6C) I
> can now see three layers in my 1l test batch of creamy canola if I
> shine a light behind it. Bottom layer (20%) is solid and dark redy-
> brown (glycerine I hope) then thin layer (5%) what looks like
> unreacted oil, then rest is dark brown "bio".  It passes the wash
> test and the third wash leaves clean water underneath and brown "bio"
> on top. The "bio" also leaves about 20-30% residue in the methanol test.
>
> So, from this, if I assume my KOH is at fault (Occum's razor) then is
> there an easy way I can tell how much more KOH to add to compensate?
>
> In answer to your questions, the pre-treated oil turns very dark
> brown, almost black on heating past 25 degrees C and it titrates at
> 3.6ml (I use KOH for the titration too).
>
> My supply of normal canola has dried up as the restaurant owner has
> sold up and it is changing into an Indian take-away- so creamy canola
> is all I have to work with!!
>
> Best
>
> Charles
>
>
>
> On 20/06/2006, at 4:25 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote:
>
>> Charles,
>>  I think you would get a split, whether your chemicals were
>> pure or
>> somewhat contaminated. The problem would be more a matter of
>> achieving a
>> complete reaction.
>> i.e. You would get biodiesel, but it might not pass quality tests.
>>
>>   I admit to being as perplexed as you
>>
>>   Is it correct to say that your first problems arose when you
>> started using the "creamy canola oil"?
>>(150 L batch and now w. 70L and even 1L batches).
>>
>>  When I hear creamy oil I think animal fat and/or water buzzed
>> into the
>> oil by the impelled in a pump.
>>
>>  Do you pre-heat it before processing? If so, does it turn
>> clear? You
>> mention that the oil turns solid at 10C (50F). This suggests that
>> the oil
>> contains some animal fat . from cooking. The canola oil I've used
>> remained liquid below 10C.
>>  How does the color of the oil, after heating, compare to the
>> color of
>> the "biodiesel" you made?  I've made some very dark BD from very
>> dark WVO.
>> (see archives: "Very Dark Biodiesel, help needed"  Oct 20/05) I
>> couldn't see
>> the split w/o very bright light.
>>
>>   Let's just consider one or two things:
>> 1.  You have done several successful test batches using virgin oil
>> and then
>> WVO so that you are on solid ground as to the measurements and
>> procedure. In
>> fact you have been successful scaling up to 40L. (I assume you used a
>> different WVO)
>>
>>  2. Re: your recent 1 L test batch:
>>You cannot see any split even when viewed w. a bright
>> light?
>> Remove a sample fr

Re: [Biofuel] Freakonomics - in defence of

[Michael Redler]

Doug wrote: "I do agree with you that most present day economists are in an extreme state of denial regarding their relationship to moral issues."I would agree that there is a detachment but, I'm not sure that it's denial. I mean, denial is a defense mechanism, right? Have they become defensive or do they see a close attachment to moral issues as a leash which keeps their research within current moral boundaries.I want to be careful not to make blanket statements because some economists may depend on moral issues because it's within the scope of their research. Those who don't include those issues (IMO) have grown accustomed to certain methods and have created their own obstacles in reaching their objective.Personally, I'm equally interested in the public reaction to economists research. I think the degree by which people interpret research as a call to action is a measure of how our culture submits to
 fear and hatred.     ...my $.02        Mike     Doug Turner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  Hi RobertI'm afraid that I have to disagree your general dismissal of Levitt &Dubner's book Freakonomics. Not all of the book was particularly grippingbut I thought the book provided ammunition for both the conservative andliberal camps. The correlation between legalize abortion in the US and thedramatic decline in some crime rates was controlled for other factors suchas increased police budgets, stiffer penalties, altered policing methods,etc. yet Levitt was still able to attribute a large majority of thediminished crime rate to legalized abortion. For me, the argument clincherwas that several states legalized
 abortion before Roe vs. Wade and thosestates had crime rates fall before the rest of the country. The author evenstated that legalize abortion was clearly not the direct cause of a declinein the crime rate. Rather Levitt proposed that perhaps children who werenot rejected at birth by their parents are more likely behave in a sociallycondoned manner.Nor was all of the research in the book based strictly on correlationalanalysis. The section dealing with drug dealers who live with their motherswas based on evidence obtained from some sociological fieldwork thatrecovered a detailed set of accounting books and records used by a MBA gradturned drug kingpin.I do agree with you that most present day economists are in an extreme stateof denial regarding their relationship to moral issues. That doesn'tnecessarily mean that the analytical tools they have developed over theyears cannot be used for good. The burgeoning
 fields of ecological and truecost economics are two examples of the application of the statisticaleconomic tools being used to address some of the issues that concern manypeople on this list. I just hope that they hurry up and spread the word alittle faster, actually a lot faster. You may want to check out this linkas a place to starthttp://adbusters.org/metas/eco/truecosteconomics/economists.htmlDoug-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED][mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of robert andbenita rabelloSent: June 20, 2006 12:38 AMTo: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] FreakonomicsDarryl McMahon wrote:>There is an oblique reference to this in the archives. I have just>finished reading the book, and recommend that people put it on their>reading lists. (No time like the present to get on your public>library's
 waiting list.)>>Yes, I think I'm the one who referenced it. This is one of mystockbroker sister's favorite books.>I thoroughly enjoyed the book, even learned a thing or two. I was aware>of the gun-related items, but I had not previously made the crime rate>drop connection in the U.S. with Roe vs. Wade.>The causal relationships the author mentions are tangential, atbest. I'm sure a correlation can be made with the drop in crime rateversus GDP too. In fact, I'll bet you could correlate a drop in crimerate with the introduction of Viagra . . .>Nice piece of de-spinning work. So many more subjects need more such>treatment.>>It's a great book for NeoCons.> From the epilogue:>"But the fact of the matter is that Freakonomics-style thinking>simply doesn't traffic in morality. As we suggested near the beginning>of this book, if
 morality represents an ideal world, then economics>represents the actual world.>>If only we had reliable numbers . . . If only we could tabulate howmuch it REALLY costs to rape the environment, destroy human life andelevate the welfare of the wealthy over the welfare of the poor. At itscore, morality IS economics, but the paradigm is upside down.>"The most likely result of having read this book is a simple one: you>may find yourself asking a lot of questions. Many of them will lead to>nothing. But some will produce answers that are interesting, even>surprising.">>Or entirely stupid. Take your pick!Sorry Darryl, but I'm simply NOT impressed . . .robert luis rabello"The Edge of Justice"Adventure for Your Mindhttp://www.newadventure.ca__

[Biofuel] Statistics

[rradzik]

Can anyone direct me to a website that could provide biodiesel production
and usage statistics for the USA?  I was able to locate information on
Europe, but not the USA.

Richard




___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] 90 litre reactor details published.

[Joe Street]

Hi Mike;

After a little thought on this, I have the following, see my comments below.

Mike Weaver wrote:

> In all seriousness, I wonder if we could just offer a cheap CD or PDF of 
> open source plans on Ebay for 2.00 or 3.00 dollars.

  While we could do this it would have to be information we write 
ourselves from our own experience and in our own words. I could do this 
of course but after all the work I have put into documenting and 
building my 30 and 90 litre systems I'm feeling a little bushed and was 
looking for a quick and easy solution for the people who feel I have 
left then in the lurch without any step by step process instructions.

> I personally buy "free" software on CD for 5-7 dollars just because it's 
> easy and saves me money and time.  I don't begrudge someone charging a 
> nominal fee to download, burn a CD, and package it it with 
> documentation.  I am willing to pay for the convenience.  What is wrong 
> is passing of JtF stuff as your own, and charging a fortune for it. 

Well this is going a little too far actually. It's not just a matter of 
making a fortune off information from JtoF, or even a non fortune.  The 
info on JtoF is copyrighted and besides it is all there for anyone to go 
read.  It doesn't need to be packaged in any other form.  Perhaps what I 
should be thinking is to write a process manual of sorts that has 
information specific to my design and also a bunch of links to resources 
on the web. I had a bunch of farmers on my course who weren't too 
computer savvy including one gentleman in his eighties who dug in his 
heels when I said anything about email or the web.  I'm not sure what to 
offer these types and believe me there were a number of them and they 
also happened to be among the most capable in the crowd as far as 
building and doing things.


Joe



  The
> key is that you can't charge for the info, just the CD and printing.  
> Have a look at http://www.cheapbytes.com/
> 
> I made my own BD notebook of info from all over the 'net - some JtF, 
> some other places.  Whatever made sense.  I wouldn't sell it, though.
> people can copy it for free.

> 
> -Weaver
> 
> raymond greeley wrote:
> 
> 
>>Hello, i believe you can offer multiple instructions at a determined price 
>>on ebay, i have seen things this way. where is your teachingfacility. i 
>>would be interested assuming i would need to travel.
>>I will review the online plans before i write back. I am in chicago and did 
>>have several travel plans
>>scheduled this summer and might be able to include a stop to visiit your 
>>work. I have people here that woudl be interested in doing a cooperative 
>>reactor in chicago.
>>are you doing any diesel auto adaption for wvo.
>>thanks, ray
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>>From: Joe Street <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>>>To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>>>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] 90 litre reactor details published.
>>>Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 14:30:14 -0400
>>>
>>>I don't know anything about ebay or how it works.  Could I auction it to
>>>the lowest bidder?
>>>
>>>;)
>>>Joe
>>>
>>>Mike Weaver wrote:
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>>
You could post a copy of the plans on Ebay but offer it for a penny.
That would put a stop to the ripoffs.

Joe Street wrote:


 


>Hello everyone;
>
>I have finally published the details and construction manual for the 90
>litre version of my system which I have upscaled from the 30 litre
>prototype. All info is copylefted of course but I hope people will check
>it out and give me some feedback. If anyone on this list ever notices my
>work being sold anywhere (like ebay) please let me know so I can take
>action. Here is the link:
>
>http://www.nonprofitfuel.ca/90%20Liter%20Reactor%20build%20manual.pdf
>
>This is the system we are going to use in our local cooperative. I am
>teaching a course this weekend based on this system.  15 students are
>registered.  I hope it goes well.
>
>Joe
>
>
>___
>Biofuel mailing list
>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
>
>Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 
>   
>
>>>
>>>messages):
>>>   
>>>
>>>
>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>
>
>
>   
>

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org

 

>>>
>>>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
>>>   
>>>
>>>
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 
 

>>>
>>>messages):
>>>   
>>>
>

Re: [Biofuel] Freakonomics - in defence of

[Doug Turner]

Hi 
Mike,
 
    Yes, you are right.  I should not have accused most 
economists of being in denial.  I needed to be clearer.  What really 
bugs me are those economists in the public eye who make normative, 
positivistic statements about things that are really subjective matters of 
opinion.  Both Keynesians and Conservatives do so but I find the 
neocons particularly reticent to acknowledge that their anti-government 
faith/belief provides the theoretical underpinnings to most of their 
positions.  I take issue with those economists who portray 
themselves as completely scientific and objective.  Economists 
must make assumptions about the fundamental nature of human 
existence.  A favourite example is the assumption that human beings are 
ration.  There are clearly many examples of when this is not true 
on at both the individual and societal levels.  Nevertheless the 
assumption of rationality remain generally accepted.  Such assumptions 
cannot help but be biased by personal values yet they claim to be 
objective.
    If you are interested, a few years ago George Soros 
wrote an article called "The Capitalist Threat" in Harpers that touches on some 
of these issues.  I recently re-read the article and was struck by the 
continued relevance of much of his argument.
    I should be clear that not all economists ignore these 
issues.  It just seems that the ones who have a voice seem to gloss over 
the significant problems that exist within the field.  Personally, I think 
that you are right about the public reaction to some economic research.  I 
also feel that in many cases the public prefers to hear that there is a simple 
fix for incredibly complex problems.  I'm just not 
certain that those pulling the levers recognise that the simple 
solutions may get them elected but they rarely solve the 
problems.
    Anyway, that's my $0.02.  Now it's time to jump down 
from this soapbox.
 
    
Doug
 

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Michael 
  RedlerSent: June 20, 2006 11:52 AMTo: 
  biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Freakonomics - 
  in defence of
  Doug wrote: "I do agree with you 
  that most present day economists are in an extreme state of denial regarding 
  their relationship to moral issues."I would agree that there is a 
  detachment but, I'm not sure that it's denial. I mean, denial is a defense 
  mechanism, right? Have they become defensive or do they see a close 
  attachment to moral issues as a leash which keeps their research 
  within current moral boundaries.I want to be careful not to make 
  blanket statements because some economists may depend on moral issues because 
  it's within the scope of their research. Those who don't include those issues 
  (IMO) have grown accustomed to certain methods and have created 
  their own obstacles in reaching their objective.Personally, 
  I'm equally interested in the public reaction to economists research. I 
  think the degree by which people interpret research as a call to action 
  is a measure of how our culture submits to fear and hatred.
   
  ...my $.02
   
   
  Mike
   
  Doug Turner 
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  Hi 
RobertI'm afraid that I have to disagree your general dismissal of 
Levitt &Dubner's book Freakonomics. Not all of the book was 
particularly grippingbut I thought the book provided ammunition for both 
the conservative andliberal camps. The correlation between legalize 
abortion in the US and thedramatic decline in some crime rates was 
controlled for other factors suchas increased police budgets, stiffer 
penalties, altered policing methods,etc. yet Levitt was still able to 
attribute a large majority of thediminished crime rate to legalized 
abortion. For me, the argument clincherwas that several states legalized 
abortion before Roe vs. Wade and thosestates had crime rates fall before 
the rest of the country. The author evenstated that legalize abortion 
was clearly not the direct cause of a declinein the crime rate. Rather 
Levitt proposed that perhaps children who werenot rejected at birth by 
their parents are more likely behave in a sociallycondoned 
manner.Nor was all of the research in the book based strictly on 
correlationalanalysis. The section dealing with drug dealers who live 
with their motherswas based on evidence obtained from some sociological 
fieldwork thatrecovered a detailed set of accounting books and records 
used by a MBA gradturned drug kingpin.I do agree with you that 
most present day economists are in an extreme stateof denial regarding 
their relationship to moral issues. That doesn'tnecessarily mean that 
the analytical tools they have developed over theyears cannot be used 
for good. The burgeoning fields of ecological and truecost economics are 
two examples of the application of the statisticaleconomic tools b

Re: [Biofuel] Freakonomics

[Darryl McMahon]

robert and benita rabello wrote:
> Darryl McMahon wrote:
> 
>>There is an oblique reference to this in the archives.  I have just 
>>finished reading the book, and recommend that people put it on their 
>>reading lists.  (No time like the present to get on your public 
>>library's waiting list.)
> 
> Yes, I think I'm the one who referenced it.  This is one of my 
> stockbroker sister's favorite books.
> 
>>I thoroughly enjoyed the book, even learned a thing or two.  I was aware 
>>of the gun-related items, but I had not previously made the crime rate 
>>drop connection in the U.S. with Roe vs. Wade. 
> 
> The causal relationships the author mentions are tangential, at 
> best.  I'm sure a correlation can be made with the drop in crime rate 
> versus GDP too.  In fact, I'll bet you could correlate a drop in crime 
> rate with the introduction of Viagra . . .

Actually, I've done some x-y correlation research in my day, and while 
it's been a while, the text of the book rings true with my experience. 
It strikes me that Levitt has done a reasonable job of substantiating 
his conclusions, as much as anyone can in the social sciences where 
running conscious control populations can be tricky.  However, he's done 
a pretty good job of finding reasonable controls for comparisons from 
data typically collected for other purposes.

So you might find a correlation between Viagra and crime rates, but 
could you posit a reasonable causal relationship, and show it across 
multiple time-frames and jurisdictions while consciously controlling for 
other likely connections?  And that the reverse action leads to the 
reverse result.  If so, I'd like to see the work backing that up.

> 
>>Nice piece of de-spinning work.  So many more subjects need more such 
>>treatment.
> 
> It's a great book for NeoCons.

Interesting perspective.  I certainly did not see it that way.  In fact, 
I would have thought NeoCons would have hated it.  I suppose anyone can 
find something they like in here, but NeoCons and the whole book, that I 
don't see.  Maybe my definition of NeoCons is off.  I tend to associate 
them with the current White House crowd (Bush II, Rove, Wolfowitz, 
Perle, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, etc) and the American religious right.

I would not expect that crowd to welcome a positive correlation between 
free choice access to abortion and a lower crime rate.

Or that for many categories of crime, harsher sentences are not a 
significant deterrent.

Perhaps the NeoCons like the example that pools are more dangerous for 
toddlers than guns.  However, it's not like Levitt is trying to 
extrapolate that result to the general population, and doing so is 
disingenuous.

> 
>>From the epilogue:
>>"But the fact of the matter is that Freakonomics-style thinking 
>>simply doesn't traffic in morality.  As we suggested near the beginning 
>>of this book, if morality represents an ideal world, then economics 
>>represents the actual world.
> 
> If only we had reliable numbers . . .  If only we could tabulate how 
> much it REALLY costs to rape the environment, destroy human life and 
> elevate the welfare of the wealthy over the welfare of the poor.  At its 
> core, morality IS economics, but the paradigm is upside down.

I disagree.  I don't think morality has much of a relationship with 
economics, any more than physics.  If a meteorite strikes the earth and 
kills people, that's reality that can be explained by physics, but I 
don't ascribe any morality to the event.  Economics attempts to explain 
the actions of individuals relative to their choices in the use of 
resources.  Levitt gives a couple of cases where the economic incentives 
are in conflict with the presumed moral choice.  Which one wins depends 
on the individual.  The take-away for me is that we should be doing a 
better job of aligning incentives with morality as a society, not 
putting them in conflict to see which wins.

If we want to expend the effort, I'm sure we can get a reasonable 
estimate of how much it costs to destroy the environment, and human life 
and extracting wealth from the poor for the benefit of the rich.  (That 
may come in a later post; I'm currently reading The Weather Makers by 
Flannery; in a word-terrifying.)

I trust you feel this direction is counter to your morality; it is 
counter to mine.  So, I would not expend the effort on the accounting 
analysis.  Economics is a tool, like a shovel.  You can use a shovel to 
cultivate the garden, or stove in your neighbour's head.  The shovel has 
no inherent morality.  Economics can be used to our benefit (e.g. 
Schumacher) or our detriment (e.g. Reagan supply-side economics, and I 
would argue Friedman's monetarism - but that's another debate).  So long 
as we permit social policies to incent action that is contrary to our 
morality, it is not the fault of economics that it can explain the 
mechanism or keep score; it is our fault for permitting the policy to 
remain in effect.

The

Re: [Biofuel] Statistics

[Centro de Asistencia Tecnica A.]

Richard:

Maybe you can find something on biodesel use in the USA at the
Environmental Information Administration http://www.eia.doe.gov/ 

Federico

-Mensaje original-
De: rradzik [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Enviado el: Martes, 20 de Junio de 2006 09:31 a.m.
Para: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Asunto: [Biofuel] Statistics

Can anyone direct me to a website that could provide biodiesel
production
and usage statistics for the USA?  I was able to locate information on
Europe, but not the USA.

Richard




___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.or
g

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

[Biofuel] [Fwd: Bureaucrats knew Kyoto unattainable: documents - National Post - 2006.06.20]

[Darryl McMahon]

OTTAWA - The Conservative government's much-criticized admission that
Canada cannot meet its requirements under the Kyoto climate-change
protocol is backed up by documents prepared for the new government by
federal bureaucrats.

The documents, obtained through a request made under the Access to
Information Act, indicate public servants at the Natural Resources
ministry had already concluded targets accepted by the previous Liberal
government were unattainable, and were waiting for the right moment to
admit it.

In material on climate-change policy prepared for the new Natural
Resources Minister, Gary Lunn, in March, department officials suggested
there were three "key issues" facing the newly elected government.

No. 1 on the list was: "Whether/when to acknowledge that Canada will be
very unlikely to meet target?"

The target in reference is Canada's Kyoto commitment -- which is to cut,
by 2012, greenhouse gas emissions to 6% below 1990 levels, as agreed to
by the Liberal government in 1997. Based on the most up-to-date
Environment Canada statistics, the country's carbon output had increased
26.6% above 1990 levels and 34.6% above the country's Kyoto target.

A number of pages and sections of the briefing material were blacked out
or omitted, as department officials cited numerous  confidentiality
concerns. For instance, three pages dealing with the issue of whether or
when Canada should acknowledge its likely Kyoto failure were censored.
That means the reasons why the department has identified this as the top
key issue for the Minister are not available.

Bureaucrats generally prepare briefing material for ministers --
including how government decisions are being implemented, hurdles ahead
and a list of talking points ministers should stick to when answering
questions. While politicians make policy decisions, such as adopting the
Kyoto protocol, it is up to bureaucrats to implement such orders.

The Conservative government and its Environment Minister, Rona Ambrose,
have been under regular assault since Ms. Ambrose declared Canada cannot
meet its obligations under the accord and therefore will not follow
through with a $10-billion strategy developed by the Liberal government
to meet that target.

The Liberal strategy consisted largely of buying foreign "credits" to
offset the continued high rate of emissions.

Ms. Ambrose has said the government is working on a made-in-Canada
environment plan that will include realistic targets to be met within a
longer timeframe.

She predicted in a recent speech that other countries would follow
Canada's lead and admit they, too, cannot meet targets outlined in the
Kyoto protocol.

Meanwhile, members of the House of Commons environment committee
expressed frustration yesterday at Ms. Ambrose's refusal to testify
before the all-party group about government plans. She declined a
request from the committee to appear this week before the session ends
for the summer break.

"It is fundamentally discouraging not to be able to question her,"
Nathan Cullen, the NDP environment critic, told his Conservative
colleagues.

-- 
Darryl McMahon  http://www.econogics.com
It's your planet.  If you won't look after it, who will?


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Help needed!

[Charles List]

Hi Tom

Many thanks for the advice. I will let you know how I get on.
I intend (hopefully) to run B100 in my boiler. I was planning to ask  
about the adjustments I will have to make! I have set up a T-piece on  
the fuel feed so I can try small amount of different % to see how I go.

Best

Charles

On 21/06/2006, at 2:30 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote:

> Charles,
>  Then creamy canola it is.
>
>  It sounds as though you are getting a reaction  .
> methanol test tells us it is not complete.
>
>  Could be the KOH
>
>  I have gotten new caustic that was not the concentration the  
> seller (or
> the bag) said it was.
>
>  Do you have (or can you get) a sample of KOH (or NaOH) of  
> known purity?
>  You could titrate a sample of the WVO with the caustic of  
> known purity
> and then titrate the same oil w. the new, questionable KOH. A  
> comparison of
> the titrations on the same WVO would indicate its purity.
>  I would do it like this: (corrections appreciated)
> 1. Divide the titration for the known by the titration for the
> unknown.  (Titration is inverse to concentration)
> 2. Multiply result by the conc. of the known.
>
> Ex: Known KOH is 85% and titration = 3.0 g/L
>   "Unknown" KOH titrates  3.6 g/L
>
> 1. 3.0 divided by  3.6  =  0.8
> 2. 0.8  X  .85   =   .708
> "Unknown" =  70.8%  KOH
>
>  If the Known caustic is NaOH, then multiply its titration by  
> 1.4  prior
> to step 1.
>
> You wrote:
> "Bottom layer (20%) is solid and dark redy- brown (glycerine I  
> hope) then
> thin layer (5%) what looks like
> unreacted oil, then rest is dark brown "bio".  It passes the wash  
> test and
> the third wash leaves clean water underneath and brown "bio" on  
> top. The
> "bio" also leaves about 20-30% residue in the methanol test."
>
> Bottom layer:  glycerine, I think
> Top layer:   biodiesel + unreacted glycerides (that
>   precipitate out in the methanol test)
> Middle layer: soaps?3.6g KOH/L WVO titration
>   suggests you will get some soap, but I think
>   5% is a bit high ... especially if you are not
>   using enough caustic.
>Could there be water in the oil (does it sizzle/pop when heated?)
> Be patient.
> Check the KOH.
> Heat a sample of the oil. Stir it ... be careful, if there's  
> water in it
> will spatter.
>  Hang in there,
>Tom
> P.S.
>  What % biodiesel do you intend to burn in your boiler?
>  Any adjustments to the burner (pressure, nozzle, air flow?)
>  (Just curious)
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Charles List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 6:38 PM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help needed!
>
>
>> Hi Tom
>>
>> Right, feel I'm making some progress. After a very cold night (-6C) I
>> can now see three layers in my 1l test batch of creamy canola if I
>> shine a light behind it. Bottom layer (20%) is solid and dark redy-
>> brown (glycerine I hope) then thin layer (5%) what looks like
>> unreacted oil, then rest is dark brown "bio".  It passes the wash
>> test and the third wash leaves clean water underneath and brown "bio"
>> on top. The "bio" also leaves about 20-30% residue in the methanol  
>> test.
>>
>> So, from this, if I assume my KOH is at fault (Occum's razor) then is
>> there an easy way I can tell how much more KOH to add to compensate?
>>
>> In answer to your questions, the pre-treated oil turns very dark
>> brown, almost black on heating past 25 degrees C and it titrates at
>> 3.6ml (I use KOH for the titration too).
>>
>> My supply of normal canola has dried up as the restaurant owner has
>> sold up and it is changing into an Indian take-away- so creamy canola
>> is all I have to work with!!
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Charles
>>
>>
>>
>> On 20/06/2006, at 4:25 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote:
>>
>>> Charles,
>>>  I think you would get a split, whether your chemicals were
>>> pure or
>>> somewhat contaminated. The problem would be more a matter of
>>> achieving a
>>> complete reaction.
>>> i.e. You would get biodiesel, but it might not pass quality tests.
>>>
>>>   I admit to being as perplexed as you
>>>
>>>   Is it correct to say that your first problems arose  
>>> when you
>>> started using the "creamy canola oil"?
>>>(150 L batch and now w. 70L and even 1L batches).
>>>
>>>  When I hear creamy oil I think animal fat and/or water buzzed
>>> into the
>>> oil by the impelled in a pump.
>>>
>>>  Do you pre-heat it before processing? If so, does it turn
>>> clear? You
>>> mention that the oil turns solid at 10C (50F). This suggests that
>>> the oil
>>> contains some animal fat . from cooking. The canola oil I've  
>>> used
>>> remained liquid below 10C.
>>>  How does the color of the oil, after heating, compare to the
>>> color of
>>> the "biodiesel" you made?  I've made some very dark BD from very
>>> dark WVO.
>>>

[Biofuel] [Fwd: Ambrose's top adviser leaves amid flak over Tories' Kyoto stance - National Post - 2006.06.20]

[Darryl McMahon]

Ambrose's top adviser leaves amid flak over Tories' Kyoto stance

Allan Woods and Mike De Souza   
CanWest News Service

Tuesday, June 20, 2006


OTTAWA - Facing non-stop pressure over her government's climate change
policies, Environment Minister Rona Ambrose has parted ways with her
most senior political adviser.

Ambrose's chief of staff, Daniel Bernier, a former Progressive
Conservative strategist, packed his belongings at the office Friday,
just as the Sierra Club of Canada gave the new government a failing
grade for its actions on climate change and biodiversity.

While a spokesperson for Ambrose refused to say why Bernier left,
several people have suggested he did not share the government's
philosophy.

''When I met Daniel, I think he was generally interested in the issue of
Kyoto, and arguably wanted to do things differently than the Liberals
did,'' said Greenpeace spokesperson Steven Guilbeault on Monday. ''I
think that doing things differently for him may not have meant scrapping
everything and putting together a (public relations) campaign to make
people believe that they are doing something while doing nothing at
all.''

One Conservative source suggested Bernier wound up being the scapegoat
because of the heat Ambrose has faced since she was sworn in.

Environmental groups have been at war with the government for months,
accusing it of slashing programs designed to combat global warming and
backing away from Canada's Kyoto protocol commitment to reduce
greenhouse gas emissions by six per cent below 1990 levels between 2008
and 2012.

Ambrose has said she wants to develop a more effective program to reduce
greenhouse gases than what the Liberals had on the table.

''I will not jeopardize the long-term opportunity for the government to
put a good plan in place for short-term political gain,'' she said in
the House of Commons on Monday. ''That is exactly what the last party
did for 13 years, and not only did it get an F, it got kicked out of
class.''

The Conservatives have also faced criticism for cancelling the popular
EnerGuide home-renovation program, but Ambrose said her government was
only following through on what the Liberals were reviewing.

''There is not one program that has been cancelled by this government
that was not on the chopping block of the previous government,'' said
Ambrose. ''Any program that is not being continued was either terminated
or had fulfilled its obligations.''

Guilbeault said Prime Minister Stephen Harper's government is losing
control of its message on environmental issues.

''I think it's becoming increasingly apparent that Harper's position on
Kyoto is at odds with the very vast majority of the Canadian society and
it's especially true in Quebec,'' he said. ''Who would have said a month
ago that Jean Charest would fight publicly over anything with Harper?''

Quebec, which introduced its own Kyoto implementation plan last week,
has demanded the federal Conservatives turn over $328 million to help it
reach its target.

Before coming to Ottawa, Bernier was an adviser to a minister in
Charest's government.




-- 
Darryl McMahon  http://www.econogics.com
It's your planet.  If you won't look after it, who will?


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

[Biofuel] [Fwd: The amnesia record - Fast Forward Weekly - 2006.06.15]

[Darryl McMahon]

http://www.ffwdweekly.com/Issues/2006/0615/view.htm

VIEWPOINT
by STEVEN SNELL

The amnesia record
Media's Kyoto coverage forgets environment  
A brief research project suggests that the role of mainstream news media 
in this country is to create cultural amnesia.

When news is put into context, the content is often removed to fit the 
current political climate. This helps to ensure that democracy is not a 
continual process where the electorate becomes more educated and 
involved in political process - rather, by attempting to remain 
objective and simply comment on political processes, news media ensure 
all politics remain partisan. However, many are not.

The Kyoto agreement on climate change serves this illustration well. 
Human-produced, anthropogenic climate change is not a partisan issue, 
nor is it political per se. It goes beyond the doctrinal democracy of 
voters' rights as it affects those generations not yet born. To focus on 
one of the many nonpolitical issues, the role of the media has been to 
make Kyoto a political issue, all but omitting the environmental story 
associated with global warming. What is left is partisan politics.

In 2003, Robert Babe, who holds a research chair in media studies at the 
University of Western Ontario, carried out a research project to analyze 
newspaper discourses on the environment. Keeping generally to Canada's 
"premier" national newspaper, the Globe and Mail, he discovered that the 
majority of the coverage on Kyoto was negative, political (not 
environmental), and analyzed the economic costs of implementing the 
accord (not the benefits). But most interesting is that four years ago 
there was a "made-in-Canada solution" to global warming proposed by an 
industry lobby group, an approach that is now being promoted by Harper's 
Conservatives (at the time it was proposed, the only Conservative plan 
was to reduce smog in Toronto - a vote-getter - because Harper was not 
convinced of the science behind Kyoto).

Presently, the Conservative government is renouncing the Kyoto Accord, 
saying its targets are not reachable, despite contradictory data. The 
legality of reneging on the accord and the steep economic penalties 
aside, the irony is that it is the cost of Kyoto that Conservatives say 
they fear. As Babe reports, responding to Chrétien's ratification of the 
accord in the fall of 2002, a collective of 35 business groups, 
including the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers and the 
Canadian Chamber of Commerce, formed the Canadian Coalition for 
Responsible Environmental Solutions. "At the peak of its campaign this 
coalition, assisted by National Public Relations, was spending a quarter 
of a million dollars a week on television ads advocating a 
'made-in-Canada solution' instead of Kyoto." To bring us into 2006, 
Environment Minister Rona Ambrose recently stood up in the House of 
Commons saying that to meet Kyoto standards would require taking every 
car off the road and every plane out of the sky. The veracity of this 
statement is easy to verify.

Quebec has stated it is attempting to reach Kyoto targets. On May 29, 
CanWest News Service's Mike De Souza reported that the province has been 
successful. "The Quebec industrial sector reduced their greenhouse gas 
emissions by 9.9 per cent between 1990 and 2003, (and) increased 
production. So that's one-and-a-half times Kyoto" This, of course, 
is political. Harper needs votes in Quebec and Ontario to win a majority 
in the next election. He must therefore please these ridings, but adhere 
to his ideological values of highly centralized government and highly 
decentralized big business. The successful limiting of media access to 
his government has helped ensure the Kyoto story stays political. And as 
recent polls indicate, the strategy is working.

Thanks to the manufactured climate of amnesia continuing from the 
Liberal Party's time in government, the public remains unclear on what 
the Kyoto Protocol is. A spring poll carried out by Ipsos Reid reveals 
that 89 per cent of Canadians have heard of Kyoto, but 68 per cent say 
they are not aware of the details. A majority of those polled worry 
about the economic consequences of carrying out the implementations of 
Kyoto. (Note that "consequences" in this case means "harms.") In the 
booklet Pain Without Gain: Canada and the Kyoto Protocol, the Canadian 
Manufacturers & Exporters project that there could be a "permanent loss 
of 450,000 jobs in the manufacturing sector by 2010." This collective is 
apparently unaware that technological investment and expansion can 
actually increase economic growth, as non-signatories China and India 
are currently planning.

The Kyoto Protocol is an international agreement on climate change that 
has to date been ratified by 163 countries. It establishes binding 
targets for cutting greenhouse gas emissions. Canada's target is a six 
per cent reduction of 1990 levels by 2012. The developed wo

Re: [Biofuel] [Fwd: Bureaucrats knew Kyoto unattainable: documents - National Post - 2006.06.20]

[Fritz Friesinger]

Hey Darryl,
so the major issues where blacked out,so we dont 
know its those damned Oilsands in AB and the way to reffine them what causes the 
problem!
One thing is shure dow,Albertans gona take a lot of 
money over the Jordanriver on Judgementday
Fritz

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Darryl 
  McMahon 
  To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 9:06 
PM
  Subject: [Biofuel] [Fwd: Bureaucrats knew 
  Kyoto unattainable: documents - National Post - 2006.06.20]
  OTTAWA - The Conservative government's much-criticized 
  admission thatCanada cannot meet its requirements under the Kyoto 
  climate-changeprotocol is backed up by documents prepared for the new 
  government byfederal bureaucrats.The documents, obtained through a 
  request made under the Access toInformation Act, indicate public servants 
  at the Natural Resourcesministry had already concluded targets accepted by 
  the previous Liberalgovernment were unattainable, and were waiting for the 
  right moment toadmit it.In material on climate-change policy 
  prepared for the new NaturalResources Minister, Gary Lunn, in March, 
  department officials suggestedthere were three "key issues" facing the 
  newly elected government.No. 1 on the list was: "Whether/when to 
  acknowledge that Canada will bevery unlikely to meet target?"The 
  target in reference is Canada's Kyoto commitment -- which is to cut,by 
  2012, greenhouse gas emissions to 6% below 1990 levels, as agreed toby the 
  Liberal government in 1997. Based on the most up-to-dateEnvironment Canada 
  statistics, the country's carbon output had increased26.6% above 1990 
  levels and 34.6% above the country's Kyoto target.A number of pages 
  and sections of the briefing material were blacked outor omitted, as 
  department officials cited numerous  confidentialityconcerns. For 
  instance, three pages dealing with the issue of whether orwhen Canada 
  should acknowledge its likely Kyoto failure were censored.That means the 
  reasons why the department has identified this as the topkey issue for the 
  Minister are not available.Bureaucrats generally prepare briefing 
  material for ministers --including how government decisions are being 
  implemented, hurdles aheadand a list of talking points ministers should 
  stick to when answeringquestions. While politicians make policy decisions, 
  such as adopting theKyoto protocol, it is up to bureaucrats to implement 
  such orders.The Conservative government and its Environment Minister, 
  Rona Ambrose,have been under regular assault since Ms. Ambrose declared 
  Canada cannotmeet its obligations under the accord and therefore will not 
  followthrough with a $10-billion strategy developed by the Liberal 
  governmentto meet that target.The Liberal strategy consisted 
  largely of buying foreign "credits" tooffset the continued high rate of 
  emissions.Ms. Ambrose has said the government is working on a 
  made-in-Canadaenvironment plan that will include realistic targets to be 
  met within alonger timeframe.She predicted in a recent speech that 
  other countries would followCanada's lead and admit they, too, cannot meet 
  targets outlined in theKyoto protocol.Meanwhile, members of the 
  House of Commons environment committeeexpressed frustration yesterday at 
  Ms. Ambrose's refusal to testifybefore the all-party group about 
  government plans. She declined arequest from the committee to appear this 
  week before the session endsfor the summer break."It is 
  fundamentally discouraging not to be able to question her,"Nathan Cullen, 
  the NDP environment critic, told his Conservativecolleagues.-- 
  Darryl 
  McMahon  
  http://www.econogics.comIt's your 
  planet.  If you won't look after it, who 
  will?___Biofuel 
  mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel 
  at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch 
  the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore interview

[JJJN]

Mark,
I was in a Hotel last night in Bismarck North Dakota, I got to see the 
whole interview.  I must say I am ready to see the movie.  I wish more 
people could have seen Al in this light about 6 years ago.

Jim

mark manchester wrote:

>Ha-HAH!  Same post, new title.  This is a fantastic interview, guys, to
>which there has been no response at all~!  Read!  Or else let's talk about
>our lawns.  (Lawns are important too, don't get all biofuelly on me..)
>
>Al Gore interview, last month, about his global warming platform and movie.
>I missed it, maybe you did too.  Jesse
>
>http://www.macleans.ca/culture/films/article.jsp?content=20060522_127258_127
>258
>
>
>___
>Biofuel mailing list
>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
>
>Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>
>  
>

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Statistics

[rradzik]

Thanks, Fererico
> 
> From: "Centro de Asistencia Tecnica A." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2006/06/20 Tue PM 02:35:54 EDT
> To: 
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Statistics
> 
> 
> Richard:
> 
> Maybe you can find something on biodesel use in the USA at the
> Environmental Information Administration http://www.eia.doe.gov/ 
> 
> Federico
> 
> -Mensaje original-
> De: rradzik [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Enviado el: Martes, 20 de Junio de 2006 09:31 a.m.
> Para: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> Asunto: [Biofuel] Statistics
> 
> Can anyone direct me to a website that could provide biodiesel
> production
> and usage statistics for the USA?  I was able to locate information on
> Europe, but not the USA.
> 
> Richard
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Biofuel mailing list
> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.or
> g
> 
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> 
> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
> messages):
> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
> 
> 
> ___
> Biofuel mailing list
> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
> 
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> 
> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
> 
> 


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic

[JJJN]

I was going to mix some of this up about 7 years ago, It so happened 
that I asked a farmer about it and he told me that it would really work 
good but he also said in a joking way don't let the Government catch 
you.  I took the bait and said why its all natural?  He laughed and said 
that nicotine was the first commercial pesticide and it was also the 
first one ever banned in the US.  I don't have any proof if what he said 
was true but the point is natural / organic stuff can be as bad as 
anything else if it is not used responsibly.

Jim

Keith Addison wrote:

>>Will this kill the bugs busy eating away my precious grape vines and 
>>shade area without harming the vine. That is used tobacco and some 
>>soap liquid mixed with water and pump it from a hand sprayer? Got 
>>sunlight soap here for the dishes, lemon scent even.
>>
>>Summary.
>>1/  1 gallon of water/juice extracted from cigarette butts.
>>2/  1 cup of liquid soap normally used for dishes.
>>3/  Mix, strain and spray on my grape vine.
>>4/  Do not do this in the kitchen with other cooks present.
>>
>>Doug
>>
>>
>
>Nicotine will kill everything else too, including the bugs that eat 
>the bugs eating your grapevines. It won't kill the vines though.
>
>Best
>
>Keith
>
>
>  
>
>>- Original Message -
>>From: Fred Finch
>>To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>>Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 7:47 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic
>>
>>Jim,
>>
>>Instead of ammonia, get a pack of chewing tobacco.  Soak it in a 
>>gallon of water for a day in the sun.  Strain the tobacco out and 
>>then add the dish soap.  Spray it on the buggies.  The nicotine is 
>>absorbed into the little critters and they die.  The plants don't 
>>care either way about the stuff.  I do this on the roses that I 
>>have.  Works great.
>>
>>Another thing that I have done is grabbed the coffee can of butts 
>>that my nieghbor had.  He thinks I am nutz anyway but the look on 
>>his face when I asked him for them was priceless.  I soaked that for 
>>a day then strained that.  Worked as well as the chewing tobacco and 
>>was free.  Smelled nasty but did the trick just the same.
>>
>>fred
>>
>>On 6/18/06, JJJN <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>Robert,
>>I was told that if you take one cup Lemon dish soap and mix with one cup
>>lemon ammonia and spray like you would with a pesticide bottle that you
>>hook on the end of a garden hose.  At first I thought the idea sounded
>>good but then what is in all that stuff? and if it kills the bad guys
>>whats it doing to the good ones. Have you heard of this? What do you
>>think?  I tested a tiny bit on some catipillers and it sure killed them
>>and quick, but again that would not be the entire goal if the product
>>screws up 10 other cycles to do so. I wish I knew more about bugs.  I
>>suppose you may have some luck if you can apply it in a way that was to
>>the single point missing everything else.
>>Jim
>>
>>robert and benita rabello wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Chris Lloyd wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
Some compost has virtually no ability to fertilise anything, I got caught
out this year with the half ton I got for growing tomatoes in. It was
supposed to be composted household waste and tree leaves, looked 


>>good, smelt
>>
>>
good and will probably make a good soil improver but I had to start adding
chicken poo to save the tomatoes. Perhaps the nutrients got 


>>washed out of it
>>
>>
but I'm going back to rotted horse manure next year.   Chris






>>>   I've found that the commercial composts are sterilized with heat to
>>>kill weed seeds.  This also kills all of the soil fauna, which is
>>>responsible for fertility.  I made that mistake once, and since then
>>>I've relied on my own compost.  My trees are happier (though I'm STILL
>>>have insect and fruit problems) and look far more lush than they have in
>>>the past.
>>>
>>>
>>>robert luis rabello
>>>"The Edge of Justice"
>>>Adventure for Your Mind
>>> http://www.newadventure.ca
>>>
>>>Ranger Supercharger Project Page
>>>http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/
>>>  
>>>
>
>
>___
>Biofuel mailing list
>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
>
>Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>
>  
>

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combine

[Biofuel] Fwd: Re: Addicted To Oil

[Keith Addison]

FWIW.

Er...

http://www.zmag.org/sustainers/content/2005-06/05palast.cfm
French Fried Friedman

Keith


>From: Jordan Wiggins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: Addicted To Oil
>Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:14:16 -0700
>
>Hi,
>
>I'm just following up on an email I sent you last week about 
>"Addicted To Oil: Thomas L. Friedman Reporting" to see if you've 
>been able to mention it on your site?ÝI also wanted to remind you 
>that the special airs this Saturday only. This is a timely and 
>important issue to educate Americans on, and Friedman does it in an 
>engaging and entertaining way. I believe your site readers will 
>thoroughly enjoy it and I hope that you will be able to tell them 
>about it before Saturday's airing.Ý
>
>I can provide you with a preview screening if you'd like to view 
>"Addicted To Oil"Ýand write about it before it airs. There are 
>clips, images, and a press release at the links below that you are 
>welcome to use, as well.
>
>Please let me know if you have any questions and if you'll be able 
>to help get the word out.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Jordan
>
>l?clik=netmain_feat1>
>
>
>
>On Jun 16, 2006, at 3:38 PM, Jordan Wiggins wrote:
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>Iím Jordan at Crew. Iím writing to you because weíve got some 
>>exciting content from the Discovery Channelís new special ADDICTED 
>>TO OIL: THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN REPORTING, a timely and in-depth 
>>presentation about one of todayís most pressing issues -- the 
>>political and social dynamics of escalating oil and gasoline 
>>prices. I believe your site readers will enjoy this content, so I 
>>wanted to offer it to you.Ý
>>
>>Here's more information about the special:
>>
>>Pulitzer Prize-winning New York Times columnist Thomas L. Friedman 
>>brought globalization to the masses with his recent book, The World 
>>is Flat.Ý Now, in his new one-hour Discovery Channel documentary, 
>>ADDICTED TO OIL: THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN REPORTING, Friedman takes 
>>ìpetropoliticsî into the mainstream by revealing that todayís 
>>energy crisis is very different from the gasoline lines of the late 
>>1970ís. In candid interviews with former CIA director James 
>>Woolsey, General Motors CEO Rick Wagoner and other key officials, 
>>Friedman reveals Americaís Achilles heal and the heart of todayís 
>>energy crisis: 97% of Americaís transportation -- including cars, 
>>planes and trains ñ is dependent on oil. How did the United States 
>>get to this point?Ý What is the message of ìPetropolitics?îÝ 
>>ADDICTED TO OIL: THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN REPORTING examines the new 
>>realism that has driven some Americans to find a solution to the 
>>nationís oil habit by researching and investing in new ìgreenî 
>>technologies for cars and homes, rather than waiting for government 
>>incentives. ADDICTED TO OIL: THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN REPORTING airs 
>>Saturday, June 24 at 10 PM (ET/PT).
>>
>>At the link below, youíll find video, photos, the program press 
>>release and more. Ý
>>
>>
>>
>>You are more than welcome to and are highly encouraged to utilize 
>>any of the assets on the page, but please do not link directly to 
>>our server.Ý
>>
>>Please let me know if you are able to use this content and if you 
>>have any questions. Let me know if you have any other ideas, as 
>>well.
>>
>>I look forward to hearing from you.
>>
>>Best,
>>
>>Jordan Wiggins
>>Crew Integrated Marketing
>>1157 N. Highland Ave.
>>Los Angeles, CA 90038
>>Ph: 323.316.9768
>>Fax: 323.468.3640
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>Jordan Wiggins
>Crew Integrated Marketing
>1157 N. Highland Ave.
>Los Angeles, CA 90038
>Ph: 323.316.9768
>Fax: 323.468.3640
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic

[Keith Addison]

>Costs zippo for raw cut and dried tobacco here, about US$2 per kilogram.
>
>I tried the mix of one handful of this to one gallon of water and let sit
>for 4 hours, added a little sunlight detergent and sprayed lightly on some
>plants last night, this morning there is no sign of any side effects on the
>plant and also no sign of them nibblers that were eating the palms. (easy to
>grow palms here, very very hard to grow grapes). If by days end still no
>detrimental signs on the palms then will try a little on the grape vines. At
>the rate I am going 1 Kg will make about 18 gallons of the bug runner. The
>initial lot was a very light yellowish color so last night I mixed more and
>over night it has gone to a very dark brown. I think I can dilute it by
>about 1:1 to bring it back to what it was yesturday which then means by
>leaving it standing for more than 12 hours I can double the 18 gallons per
>kg. All up is then less than US$3 for 36 gallons of grub off or grub gone.

How many dollars it costs per gallon is hardly the point.

>Tobacco was outlawed before DDT??? Could this be due to US
>"Commercial/Industrial" interests and not the fault of the tobacco. Any one
>can grow tobacco but not every one can make DDT and pesticides. More
>information/discussion would be a help here

Not really. Unless you think "organic" pesticides are useful, and I'm 
not the only one trying to tell you that pesticides are useless, 
whether "organic" or not. "The badge of the amateur."

Learn how to make fertile soil that's capable of growing healthy 
plants that don't need pesticides.

If you want to know more about "organic" pesticides there's plenty of 
information available on using nicotine, derris, rotenone, pyrethrum, 
quassia, sulphur, bordeaux mixture, potassium permanganate, soft soap 
and FA soap, and so on and on, but it's just another blind alley.

Best

Keith


>Doug
>
>From: "JJJN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: 
>Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 10:33 AM
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic
>
>
> > I was going to mix some of this up about 7 years ago, It so happened
> > that I asked a farmer about it and he told me that it would really work
> > good but he also said in a joking way don't let the Government catch
> > you.  I took the bait and said why its all natural?  He laughed and said
> > that nicotine was the first commercial pesticide and it was also the
> > first one ever banned in the US.  I don't have any proof if what he said
> > was true but the point is natural / organic stuff can be as bad as
> > anything else if it is not used responsibly.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > Keith Addison wrote:
> >
> > >>Will this kill the bugs busy eating away my precious grape vines and
> > >>shade area without harming the vine. That is used tobacco and some
> > >>soap liquid mixed with water and pump it from a hand sprayer? Got
> > >>sunlight soap here for the dishes, lemon scent even.
> > >>
> > >>Summary.
> > >>1/  1 gallon of water/juice extracted from cigarette butts.
> > >>2/  1 cup of liquid soap normally used for dishes.
> > >>3/  Mix, strain and spray on my grape vine.
> > >>4/  Do not do this in the kitchen with other cooks present.
> > >>
> > >>Doug
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >Nicotine will kill everything else too, including the bugs that eat
> > >the bugs eating your grapevines. It won't kill the vines though.
> > >
> > >Best
> > >
> > >Keith
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>- Original Message -
> > >>From: Fred Finch
> > >>To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> > >>Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 7:47 PM
> > >>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic
> > >>
> > >>Jim,
> > >>
> > >>Instead of ammonia, get a pack of chewing tobacco.  Soak it in a
> > >>gallon of water for a day in the sun.  Strain the tobacco out and
> > >>then add the dish soap.  Spray it on the buggies.  The nicotine is
> > >>absorbed into the little critters and they die.  The plants don't
> > >>care either way about the stuff.  I do this on the roses that I
> > >>have.  Works great.
> > >>
> > >>Another thing that I have done is grabbed the coffee can of butts
> > >>that my nieghbor had.  He thinks I am nutz anyway but the look on
> > >>his face when I asked him for them was priceless.  I soaked that for
> > >>a day then strained that.  Worked as well as the chewing tobacco and
> > >>was free.  Smelled nasty but did the trick just the same.
> > >>
> > >>fred
> > >>
> > >>On 6/18/06, JJJN <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>Robert,
> > >>I was told that if you take one cup Lemon dish soap and mix with one cup
> > >>lemon ammonia and spray like you would with a pesticide bottle that you
> > >>hook on the end of a garden hose.  At first I thought the idea sounded
> > >>good but then what is in all that stuff? and if it kills the bad guys
> > >>whats it doing to the good ones. Have you heard of this? What do you
> > >>think?  I tested a tiny bit on some ca

[Biofuel] Roger Sanders' Waste Oil Heater

[Keith Addison]

Roger's done a great job with this. Waste motor oil or WVO, doesn't 
need a blower.

Best

Keith


Roger Sanders' Waste Oil Heater

Roger Sanders has solved all the problems that make Mother Earth News 
waste oil heaters difficult to use. His new MEN heater design is 
simple, reliable and easy to use, it's quiet and uses no electricity, 
it has reliable oil flow and a wide heat range, it's easy to light 
and easy to clean.

"In other words, it is a practical design that you can use day in and 
day out for seriously heating your dwelling or workshop without 
costing you a lot of time and frustration."

Click here for a full description of Roger's heater, how he solved 
the problems he encountered with the traditional design, and the 
revolutionary but simple burner (left) that's the key to easy control 
over a wide heat range and oil flow rate.

With photographs and design drawings.

http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/me11.html
Roger Sanders' Waste Oil Heater

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] castorbeans

[lres1]

Have had many years ago engines like steam driven 
units that used good castor oil as their engine lubricants. Some of this was fed 
through adjustable sight feed lubricators to open shafts and some was in dip 
pans where a ring was inserted to the centre of a bearing but of large diameter 
and thus the ring was in the oil and slowly picked up the oil and dropped it to 
the shafts.
 
A similar system was used in Comet and Southern 
Cross wind pumps running on white metal bearings and or hard wood bearings. The 
oil for the later being of many mixed varieties of what could be 
had.
 
Has any one run straight castor oil as stand alone 
engine oil in the sump of an engine without using any other additives? I have 
used it but only in small model engines and not as a fully synthetic stand alone 
in a car or SUV. Any ideas?
 
Doug 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Mike Redler 
  
  To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  
  Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 5:06 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] castorbeans
  Hi Juan,I saw the word "beans" and thought of a 
  climbing plant, like a string beanbad assumption. I'm definitely 
  NOT a farmer.Anyway, I'll check Keith's 
  links.Thanks.-RedlerJuan Boveda wrote: 
  Hello Mike Redler.
That crop is like a big bush, in this subtropical country it grows like a 
weed (no insecticides needed) but it needs a fertile dirt, water and a 
half-squared meter for its deep roots. I does not climbs, more likely it 
can be used for the urban farmer as a shadow for parking lots if they are 
planted in groups. It was discussed the production of biodiesel from castor 
and Keith sent to the list the following message that has many links.
Best Regards.

Juan Boveda
Paraguay


-original-
From:	Keith Addison [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent:	3/30/ 2006 5:38
For:	Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject:	Re: [Biofuel] Seeking experience to produce biodiesel from Castor

  
Anyone care to share any experiences with castor oil based biodiesel
brewing using small-scale plants?  I am told that castor oil dissolves
in alcohols and external heating is eliminated from the process.  I'm
also hearing conjectures that castor based biodiesel will not freeze
even below -20 deg C.  Any pointers to more specific info along these 
lines?
  
I'll get to my own brewing/learning experiments soon (and I'll start
with proven processes and materials described on J2FE), but we could do
with as much existing wisdom as  we can get our hands on, especially
because what we want to get into out here is not only for our personal
consumption.  Many thanks in advance for any help.

Chandan

Hi Chandan

I can't share any experience of using castor oil but I can offer some
information which might help. It's been discussed a few times before,
I think other list members may have direct experience of it.

List archives:
http://snipurl.com/oeit
Search results for 'castor'

The one disadvantage mentioned, that I haven't seen an answer to, was
that crushing the seeds creates a seriously bad odour, enough to put
people off. Also the cake is poinsonous, but James Duke says:
"Although it is highly toxic due to the ricin, a method of
detoxicating the meal has now been found, so that it can safely be
fed to livestock.MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "www.hort.purdue.edu" claiming to be "

http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/duke_energy/Ricinus_communis.html
Ricinus communis

The toxic principle is water-soluble so is not found in the oil. It's
also said to be a drying oil, the equal of tung oil, yet it has a
much lower Iodine Value, though Iodine Value is quite a crude
indicator of whether oils will polymerise or not and castor oil seems
to be an exception. On the other hand it has a longstanding
reputation of being an excellent motor oil.

This is an informative website about castor oil, and biodiesel generally:

http://www.castoroil.in/uses/fuel/castor_oil_fuel.html
Castor Oil as Biofuel & Biodiesel - Info, WWW Resources on Castoroil
as Bio-fuel, Bio-diesel

Others:

http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/afcm/castor.html
Castorbeans

http://www.ibiblio.org/pfaf/cgi-bin/arr_html?Ricinus+communis
Ricinus communis

http://snipurl.com/oeiu
The Hindu Business Line : Gujarat Oleo Chem bags Rs 25-cr biodiesel
order from IOC
Gujarat Oleo Chem bags Rs 25-cr biodiesel order from IOC
Mumbai , Aug 3

http://www.tierramerica.net/2003/0526/ianalisis.shtml
Energy in a Castor Bean
The castor-oil plant, ricinus communis, is the best source for
creating "biodiesel", say Brazilian experts.

http://www.allbusiness.com/periodicals/article/278737-1.html
First electricity from castor oil: Patrick Knight reports on how the
biodiesel industry in Brazil is taking off.
 From Oils & Fats International: Nov, 2004 issue

Hope this helps.

Best

Keith
  [snip]
  


   Information from NOD32 
This message was checked by NOD32 Antivirus System 
for Linux Mail Ser

Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic

[lres1]

Costs zippo for raw cut and dried tobacco here, about US$2 per kilogram.

I tried the mix of one handful of this to one gallon of water and let sit
for 4 hours, added a little sunlight detergent and sprayed lightly on some
plants last night, this morning there is no sign of any side effects on the
plant and also no sign of them nibblers that were eating the palms. (easy to
grow palms here, very very hard to grow grapes). If by days end still no
detrimental signs on the palms then will try a little on the grape vines. At
the rate I am going 1 Kg will make about 18 gallons of the bug runner. The
initial lot was a very light yellowish color so last night I mixed more and
over night it has gone to a very dark brown. I think I can dilute it by
about 1:1 to bring it back to what it was yesturday which then means by
leaving it standing for more than 12 hours I can double the 18 gallons per
kg. All up is then less than US$3 for 36 gallons of grub off or grub gone.

Tobacco was outlawed before DDT??? Could this be due to US
"Commercial/Industrial" interests and not the fault of the tobacco. Any one
can grow tobacco but not every one can make DDT and pesticides. More
information/discussion would be a help here

Doug

From: "JJJN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 10:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic


> I was going to mix some of this up about 7 years ago, It so happened
> that I asked a farmer about it and he told me that it would really work
> good but he also said in a joking way don't let the Government catch
> you.  I took the bait and said why its all natural?  He laughed and said
> that nicotine was the first commercial pesticide and it was also the
> first one ever banned in the US.  I don't have any proof if what he said
> was true but the point is natural / organic stuff can be as bad as
> anything else if it is not used responsibly.
>
> Jim
>
> Keith Addison wrote:
>
> >>Will this kill the bugs busy eating away my precious grape vines and
> >>shade area without harming the vine. That is used tobacco and some
> >>soap liquid mixed with water and pump it from a hand sprayer? Got
> >>sunlight soap here for the dishes, lemon scent even.
> >>
> >>Summary.
> >>1/  1 gallon of water/juice extracted from cigarette butts.
> >>2/  1 cup of liquid soap normally used for dishes.
> >>3/  Mix, strain and spray on my grape vine.
> >>4/  Do not do this in the kitchen with other cooks present.
> >>
> >>Doug
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Nicotine will kill everything else too, including the bugs that eat
> >the bugs eating your grapevines. It won't kill the vines though.
> >
> >Best
> >
> >Keith
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>- Original Message -
> >>From: Fred Finch
> >>To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> >>Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 7:47 PM
> >>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic
> >>
> >>Jim,
> >>
> >>Instead of ammonia, get a pack of chewing tobacco.  Soak it in a
> >>gallon of water for a day in the sun.  Strain the tobacco out and
> >>then add the dish soap.  Spray it on the buggies.  The nicotine is
> >>absorbed into the little critters and they die.  The plants don't
> >>care either way about the stuff.  I do this on the roses that I
> >>have.  Works great.
> >>
> >>Another thing that I have done is grabbed the coffee can of butts
> >>that my nieghbor had.  He thinks I am nutz anyway but the look on
> >>his face when I asked him for them was priceless.  I soaked that for
> >>a day then strained that.  Worked as well as the chewing tobacco and
> >>was free.  Smelled nasty but did the trick just the same.
> >>
> >>fred
> >>
> >>On 6/18/06, JJJN <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >>Robert,
> >>I was told that if you take one cup Lemon dish soap and mix with one cup
> >>lemon ammonia and spray like you would with a pesticide bottle that you
> >>hook on the end of a garden hose.  At first I thought the idea sounded
> >>good but then what is in all that stuff? and if it kills the bad guys
> >>whats it doing to the good ones. Have you heard of this? What do you
> >>think?  I tested a tiny bit on some catipillers and it sure killed them
> >>and quick, but again that would not be the entire goal if the product
> >>screws up 10 other cycles to do so. I wish I knew more about bugs.  I
> >>suppose you may have some luck if you can apply it in a way that was to
> >>the single point missing everything else.
> >>Jim
> >>
> >>robert and benita rabello wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Chris Lloyd wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> Some compost has virtually no ability to fertilise anything, I got
caught
> out this year with the half ton I got for growing tomatoes in. It was
> supposed to be composted household waste and tree leaves, looked
> 
> 
> >>good, smelt
> >>
> >>
> good and will probably make a good soil improver but I had to start
adding
> chicken poo to save the tomatoes. Pe