Hi Tom Many thanks for the advice. I will let you know how I get on. I intend (hopefully) to run B100 in my boiler. I was planning to ask about the adjustments I will have to make! I have set up a T-piece on the fuel feed so I can try small amount of different % to see how I go.
Best Charles On 21/06/2006, at 2:30 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote: > Charles, > Then creamy canola it is. > > It sounds as though you are getting a reaction ..... > methanol test tells us it is not complete. > > Could be the KOH > > I have gotten new caustic that was not the concentration the > seller (or > the bag) said it was. > > Do you have (or can you get) a sample of KOH (or NaOH) of > known purity? > You could titrate a sample of the WVO with the caustic of > known purity > and then titrate the same oil w. the new, questionable KOH. A > comparison of > the titrations on the same WVO would indicate its purity. > I would do it like this: (corrections appreciated) > 1. Divide the titration for the known by the titration for the > unknown. (Titration is inverse to concentration) > 2. Multiply result by the conc. of the known. > > Ex: Known KOH is 85% and titration = 3.0 g/L > "Unknown" KOH titrates 3.6 g/L > > 1. 3.0 divided by 3.6 = 0.83333 > 2. 0.83333 X .85 = .708 > "Unknown" = 70.8% KOH > > **** If the Known caustic is NaOH, then multiply its titration by > 1.4 prior > to step 1. > > You wrote: > "Bottom layer (20%) is solid and dark redy- brown (glycerine I > hope) then > thin layer (5%) what looks like > unreacted oil, then rest is dark brown "bio". It passes the wash > test and > the third wash leaves clean water underneath and brown "bio" on > top. The > "bio" also leaves about 20-30% residue in the methanol test." > > Bottom layer: glycerine, I think > Top layer: biodiesel + unreacted glycerides (that > precipitate out in the methanol test) > Middle layer: soaps? 3.6g KOH/L WVO titration > suggests you will get some soap, but I think > 5% is a bit high ... especially if you are not > using enough caustic. > Could there be water in the oil (does it sizzle/pop when heated?) > Be patient. > Check the KOH. > Heat a sample of the oil. Stir it ... be careful, if there's > water in it > will spatter. > Hang in there, > Tom > P.S. > What % biodiesel do you intend to burn in your boiler? > Any adjustments to the burner (pressure, nozzle, air flow?) > (Just curious) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Charles List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org> > Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 6:38 PM > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help needed! > > >> Hi Tom >> >> Right, feel I'm making some progress. After a very cold night (-6C) I >> can now see three layers in my 1l test batch of creamy canola if I >> shine a light behind it. Bottom layer (20%) is solid and dark redy- >> brown (glycerine I hope) then thin layer (5%) what looks like >> unreacted oil, then rest is dark brown "bio". It passes the wash >> test and the third wash leaves clean water underneath and brown "bio" >> on top. The "bio" also leaves about 20-30% residue in the methanol >> test. >> >> So, from this, if I assume my KOH is at fault (Occum's razor) then is >> there an easy way I can tell how much more KOH to add to compensate? >> >> In answer to your questions, the pre-treated oil turns very dark >> brown, almost black on heating past 25 degrees C and it titrates at >> 3.6ml (I use KOH for the titration too). >> >> My supply of normal canola has dried up as the restaurant owner has >> sold up and it is changing into an Indian take-away- so creamy canola >> is all I have to work with!! >> >> Best >> >> Charles >> >> >> >> On 20/06/2006, at 4:25 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote: >> >>> Charles, >>> I think you would get a split, whether your chemicals were >>> pure or >>> somewhat contaminated. The problem would be more a matter of >>> achieving a >>> complete reaction. >>> i.e. You would get biodiesel, but it might not pass quality tests. >>> >>> I admit to being as perplexed as you >>> >>> Is it correct to say that your first problems arose >>> when you >>> started using the "creamy canola oil"? >>> (150 L batch and now w. 70L and even 1L batches). >>> >>> When I hear creamy oil I think animal fat and/or water buzzed >>> into the >>> oil by the impelled in a pump. >>> >>> Do you pre-heat it before processing? If so, does it turn >>> clear? You >>> mention that the oil turns solid at 10C (50F). This suggests that >>> the oil >>> contains some animal fat ..... from cooking. The canola oil I've >>> used >>> remained liquid below 10C. >>> How does the color of the oil, after heating, compare to the >>> color of >>> the "biodiesel" you made? I've made some very dark BD from very >>> dark WVO. >>> (see archives: "Very Dark Biodiesel, help needed" Oct 20/05) I >>> couldn't see >>> the split w/o very bright light. >>> >>> Let's just consider one or two things: >>> 1. You have done several successful test batches using virgin oil >>> and then >>> WVO so that you are on solid ground as to the measurements and >>> procedure. In >>> fact you have been successful scaling up to 40L. (I assume you >>> used a >>> different WVO) >>> >>> 2. Re: your recent 1 L test batch: >>> You cannot see any split even when viewed w. a bright >>> light? >>> Remove a sample from the top and a sample from the bottom. >>> (Keep them >>> separate.) >>> Perform a wash test on each sample. Do the samples behave >>> differently >>> (from each other) when you perform a "wash test" on them? >>> >>> What did you get for a titration on the oil? >>> >>> If all else fails, you may have to go to other sources of WVO. >>> You had >>> success up to 40L. You got clear cut splits, BD that washed, and >>> may well >>> have passed quality tests. Before frustration overwhelms you it >>> might be a >>> good idea to go back to where you were successful. Scale up using >>> the same >>> WVO that you were successful with and perform quality test to fine >>> tune your >>> process. If this "creamy canola" still fascinates you, do some 1L. >>> test >>> batches with it. >>> You mentioned New Zealand; winter on your doorstep. Gotta >>> get you >>> making heating fuel. I'm on the other side of the equator .... >>> summer's >>> heating up. >>> Good luck, and let me know how it goes. >>> Tom >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Charles List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org> >>> Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 4:29 PM >>> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help needed! >>> >>> >>>> Hi Tom >>>> >>>> Thanks for that, I tried 70l at the weekend and end-product still >>>> black, so I tried a 1l batch, still black!! I am using new KOH and >>>> new methanol (as I'm scaling up I bought in bulk for the first >>>> time) >>>> so could it be one of these that's the problem? If so, how do I >>>> test >>>> if they're any good? I'm getting some kind of reaction as the black >>>> product is liquid at zero Celsius, and my oil is solid at 10 >>>> degrees, >>>> but I can't see any split at all and, as I said, the product is >>>> very >>>> very dark brown, almost black!! >>>> >>>> Charles >>>> >>>> >>>> On 17/06/2006, at 1:59 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote: >>>> >>>>> Charles, >>>>> I think that if you drop back to 80 L you are still making a >>>>> goodly bit >>>>> of fuel. You still may have to tweak the process ... increase >>>>> time >>>>> and or >>>>> temp. Get it right there and then go up in 5 or 10L increments, >>>>> testing each >>>>> batch, and again, tweaking, if necessary. >>>>> I went from small test batches and slowly increased volume up >>>>> to 20 - >>>>> 25 L batches. I then jumped up to 130L batches. >>>>> When I discovered that the biodiesel wasn't as good as I >>>>> thought, I >>>>> dropped back to 76L (20 gal)batches. After increasing processing >>>>> time and >>>>> then increasing temp to 140F (60C) , I finally began to >>>>> consistently make BD >>>>> that passed the "methanol solubility test" and did not drop out >>>>> additional >>>>> glycerine when I reprocessed 1L of finished product. >>>>> The limitation on my system seems to be about 91L (24 gal) >>>>> and is >>>>> probably the volume limit of my pump, a 1" Clearwater pump. >>>>> I still quality test each batch, not just to be sure of the >>>>> fuel, but >>>>> as a maintenance test for the processor and the materials being >>>>> used. Is my >>>>> recovered methanol pure enough? (If I use the first 4 gal I >>>>> recover, the BD >>>>> passes the quality test. When I use the first 6 gallons, little >>>>> buggers show >>>>> up in the methanol sol. test). >>>>> Slow and methodical pays off. >>>>> Best of luck. >>>>> Let me know how it goes, >>>>> Tom >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Biofuel mailing list >>> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ >>> biofuel_sustainablelists.org >>> >>> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >>> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >>> >>> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 >>> messages): >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >>> >> >> >> -- >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------- >> This email was sent using Telecom SchoolZone. >> www.schoolzone.net.nz >> >> This email has been scanned for viruses by Telecom SchoolZone, >> but is not guaranteed to be virus-free. >> -------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Biofuel mailing list >> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ >> biofuel_sustainablelists.org >> >> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >> >> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 >> messages): >> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >> >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ > biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > -- -------------------------------------------------------------- This email was sent using Telecom SchoolZone. www.schoolzone.net.nz This email has been scanned for viruses by Telecom SchoolZone, but is not guaranteed to be virus-free. -------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
