date:20060811

Probably because it is military fuel.  I suspect the biocide makes for toxic exhaust.  Commercial fuel gets condemned all the time.  Bacteria bodies clog filters and one of the metabolic products is water.  A friend of mine used to get 500 gallons delivered for $50. Probably the charge was transportation.  10 cents a gallon is nice.     KirkPaul S Cantrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  It looks and smells like absolutely brand new.  Apparently the additives in JP-8 include enough *-icide to keep it out.  Also it was sealed tightly with no air.  On 8/11/06, Kirk McLoren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  I would expect any fuel that old to be half digested by bacteria.  Kirk  Zeke Yewdall < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  Are we so strapped for fuel that we have to siphon 20 year old stuff out of helicopters now???     I guess it does make more sense than throwing it away, so I'd go for it.  Since the main problem with kerosene in diesel engines is lack of lubricity, I'd mix it with biodiesel instead of diesel -- offset the low lubricity stuff with high lubricity
 stuff.   Also, the whole impetus behind the army developing diesel motorcycles is apparently so they don't have to bring gasoline along at all -- helicopters, tanks, dirt bikes, everything will run on the same jet fuel Z  On 8/11/06, Joe Street < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:   Hi Paul;I can't say for sure but I have heard of the guys who work as ground crew at the Tortonto airport putting jet fuel in their diesel cars.  Apparently fuel which is drained from wing tanks is not allowed to be put back in so they often have some 'waste'. JoePaul S Cantrell
 wrote:Good Afternoon all,I have an interesting story for ya'll today.  I work at a small military college.  Being a military school, we have a tank, a personnel carrier, a rocket, several howitzers, an F-4 Phantom, an anchor and a Huey Cobra helicopter on the parade field.  The helicopter is why I'm writing.  It was donated by the national guard 20 years ago and the engine was removed.  However, the FUEL was not removed.  It smells like kerosene.  It is colorless/clear and dry, since the fuel tanks were full and sealed the whole time.  This discovery was made when we decided to move it to pour a concrete pad for it. A sample weighs exactly 800 grams per liter (digital scale is +/-20 grams), so it is too heavy to be JP4 (50% gasoline/50%kerosene + additives), too light for diesel and
 about right to be JP8 (100% kerosene + additives). I referenced this website for densities of fuel:http://www.simetric.co.uk/si_liquids.htm I have a 98 VW Jetta TDI that has half a tank of regualar #2 diesel in it at the moment. I know up north in the US the fuel companies mix diesel with kerosene up to 50/50 in the winter time.  Also, as I understand it, the new ULSD is very similar to kerosene.Should I have any reservation mixing it up to 50/50 in my car?  I don't really, I just wanted to share the story and hear from ya'll. No real answers at the TDIClub website.-- Thanks,PCHe's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switch The genius of you Americans is that you never make clear-cut stupid moves, only complicated stupid moves which make
 us wonder at the possibility that there may be something to them which we are missing. - Gamal Abdel Nasser ___Biofuel mailing list  Biofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:  http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/  ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/Do you Yahoo!?Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.   ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
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Re: [Biofuel] Fuel Help

I don't blame them one bit...saving the airport disposal costs to boot.On 8/11/06, Joe Street <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:


  
  


Hi Paul;

I can't say for sure but I have heard of the guys who work as ground
crew at the Tortonto airport putting jet fuel in their diesel cars. 
Apparently fuel which is drained from wing tanks is not allowed to be
put back in so they often have some 'waste'.

Joe

Paul S Cantrell wrote:
Good Afternoon all,
I have an interesting story for ya'll today.  I work at a small
military college.  Being a military school, we have a tank, a personnel
carrier, a rocket, several howitzers, an F-4 Phantom, an anchor and a
Huey Cobra helicopter on the parade field.  The helicopter is why I'm
writing.  It was donated by the national guard 20 years ago and the
engine was removed.  However, the FUEL was not removed. 
It smells like kerosene.  It is colorless/clear and dry, since the fuel
tanks were full and sealed the whole time.  This discovery was made
when we decided to move it to pour a concrete pad for it.
  
A sample weighs exactly 800 grams per liter (digital scale is +/-20
grams), so it is too heavy to be JP4 (50% gasoline/50%kerosene +
additives), too light for diesel and about right to be JP8 (100%
kerosene + additives).
  
I referenced this website for densities of fuel:
  http://www.simetric.co.uk/si_liquids.htm
  
  
I have a 98 VW Jetta TDI that has half a tank of regualar #2 diesel in
it at the moment.
  
  
I know up north in the US the fuel companies mix diesel with kerosene
up to 50/50 in the winter time.  Also, as I understand it, the new ULSD
is very similar to kerosene.
  
Should I have any reservation mixing it up to 50/50 in my car?  I don't
really, I just wanted to share the story and hear from ya'll.
  
No real answers at the TDIClub website.
  
-- 
Thanks,
PC
  
He's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switch
  
  
The genius of you Americans is that you never make clear-cut stupid
moves, only complicated stupid moves which make us wonder at the
possibility that there may be something to them which we are missing. -
Gamal Abdel Nasser
  
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Re: [Biofuel] Fuel Help

It looks and smells like absolutely brand new.  Apparently the additives in JP-8 include enough *-icide to keep it out.  Also it was sealed tightly with no air.On 8/11/06, 
Kirk McLoren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I would expect any fuel that old to be half digested by bacteria.  KirkZeke Yewdall <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  Are we so strapped for fuel that we have to siphon 20 year old stuff out of helicopters now???     I guess it does make more sense than throwing it away, so I'd go for it.  Since the main problem with kerosene in diesel engines is lack of lubricity, I'd mix it with biodiesel instead of diesel -- offset the low lubricity stuff with high lubricity stuff.   Also, the whole impetus behind the army developing diesel motorcycles is apparently so they don't have to bring gasoline along at all -- helicopters, tanks, dirt bikes, everything will run on the same jet fuel 
Z  On 8/11/06, Joe Street <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  
Hi Paul;I can't say for sure but I have heard of the guys who work as ground crew at the Tortonto airport putting jet fuel in their diesel cars.  Apparently fuel which is drained from wing tanks is not allowed to be put back in so they often have some 'waste'.
JoePaul S Cantrell wrote:Good Afternoon all,I have an interesting story for ya'll today.  I work at a small military college.  Being a military school, we have a tank, a personnel carrier, a rocket, several howitzers, an F-4 Phantom, an anchor and a
 Huey Cobra helicopter on the parade field.  The helicopter is why I'm writing.  It was donated by the national guard 20 years ago and the engine was removed.  However, the FUEL was not removed.  It smells like kerosene.  It is colorless/clear and dry, since the fuel tanks were full and sealed the whole time.  This discovery was made when we decided to move it to pour a concrete pad for it.
A sample weighs exactly 800 grams per liter (digital scale is +/-20 grams), so it is too heavy to be JP4 (50% gasoline/50%kerosene + additives), too light for diesel and about right to be JP8 (100% kerosene + additives). 
I referenced this website for densities of fuel:http://www.simetric.co.uk/si_liquids.htm
 I have a 98 VW Jetta TDI that has half a tank of regualar #2 diesel in it at the moment. I know up
 north in the US the fuel companies mix diesel with kerosene up to 50/50 in the winter time.  Also, as I understand it, the new ULSD is very similar to kerosene.Should I have any reservation mixing it up to 50/50 in my car?  I don't really, I just wanted to share the story and hear from ya'll.
No real answers at the TDIClub website.-- Thanks,PCHe's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switch The genius of you Americans is that you never make clear-cut stupid moves, only complicated stupid moves which make us wonder at the possibility that there may be something to them which we are missing. - Gamal Abdel Nasser 
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Re: [Biofuel] Fuel Help

LOL!  The college would have to pay a company A LOT to take it away.  It will probably be poured into the big diesel tank, where it will be an insignificant part.I poured the 1 liter sample into the tank after work with absolutely no noticeable difference on the drive home.
For sure, BD would be better.On 8/11/06, Zeke Yewdall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Are we so strapped for fuel that we have to siphon 20 year old stuff out of helicopters now???     I guess it does make more sense than throwing it away, so I'd go for it.  Since the main problem with kerosene in diesel engines is lack of lubricity, I'd mix it with biodiesel instead of diesel -- offset the low lubricity stuff with high lubricity stuff.   Also, the whole impetus behind the army developing diesel motorcycles is apparently so they don't have to bring gasoline along at all -- helicopters, tanks, dirt bikes, everything will run on the same jet fuel 
ZOn 8/11/06, Joe Street <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



  
  


Hi Paul;

I can't say for sure but I have heard of the guys who work as ground
crew at the Tortonto airport putting jet fuel in their diesel cars. 
Apparently fuel which is drained from wing tanks is not allowed to be
put back in so they often have some 'waste'.

Joe

Paul S Cantrell wrote:
Good Afternoon all,
I have an interesting story for ya'll today.  I work at a small
military college.  Being a military school, we have a tank, a personnel
carrier, a rocket, several howitzers, an F-4 Phantom, an anchor and a
Huey Cobra helicopter on the parade field.  The helicopter is why I'm
writing.  It was donated by the national guard 20 years ago and the
engine was removed.  However, the FUEL was not removed. 
It smells like kerosene.  It is colorless/clear and dry, since the fuel
tanks were full and sealed the whole time.  This discovery was made
when we decided to move it to pour a concrete pad for it.
  
A sample weighs exactly 800 grams per liter (digital scale is +/-20
grams), so it is too heavy to be JP4 (50% gasoline/50%kerosene +
additives), too light for diesel and about right to be JP8 (100%
kerosene + additives).
  
I referenced this website for densities of fuel:
  http://www.simetric.co.uk/si_liquids.htm
  
  
I have a 98 VW Jetta TDI that has half a tank of regualar #2 diesel in
it at the moment.
  
  
I know up north in the US the fuel companies mix diesel with kerosene
up to 50/50 in the winter time.  Also, as I understand it, the new ULSD
is very similar to kerosene.
  
Should I have any reservation mixing it up to 50/50 in my car?  I don't
really, I just wanted to share the story and hear from ya'll.
  
No real answers at the TDIClub website.
  
-- 
Thanks,
PC
  
He's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switch
  
  
The genius of you Americans is that you never make clear-cut stupid
moves, only complicated stupid moves which make us wonder at the
possibility that there may be something to them which we are missing. -
Gamal Abdel Nasser
  
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Re: [Biofuel] What the bleep -was galloway

If you are on this list odds are you are not average. Average is the people I just did jury duty with. KirkMichael Redler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:"Tesla invented the modern world far more than Edison or Westinghouse or Marconi." Damn! I didn't even know the modern world was invented. - Redler (average person) Kirk McLoren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:I am not a fan of that Ramtha person. She is quite egotistical. But I would not dismiss the whole film out of hand. Some interesting comments were made that are valid. Remember
these people tried to explain the "unexplainable" at least using the frame of reference of the man in the street. Try explaining the federal reserve to the average person. They may surprise you with the difficulty they have with some far simpler concepts than what "bleep" was trying to address. As for Ramtha remember people dont want magic, they demand it. A successful club owner told me that. I think he is correct. Modern science is full of showmanship and misrepresentation as well. Edison gets credit for Tesla's work and so on. Tesla invented the modern world far more than Edison or Westinghouse or Marconi. What does the average person know though? We arent a tenth as clever as we think we are. KirkJoe Street <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Here is a link to an entry in the skeptic's dictionary about the producer of that movie. Have a read and do a check on the 'experts' that appeared in that movie to see what their peers have to say about them if you want to have a good laugh.http://skepdic.com/channel.htmlToo funny!JoeM&K DuPree wrote: Hi D...thank you. Say, thank you too for alerting me way back when to the video What the Bleep Do We Know? Outstanding. Will be watching again. Mike- Original Message - From: D. Mindock To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 1:51 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] George Galloway _ Lebanon. View it whileyou can Mike, See: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1828245 which has a blurb plus links. Peace, D. Mindock- Original Message - From: M&K DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 2:20 PM Subject: [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Re: George Galloway _ Lebanon. View it whileyou canLet me also add this note. I haven't checked the Pentagon site for this info. Maybe someone else would care to research it and verify. But here you. -- Mike DuPree http://english.people.com.cn//200608/09/eng20060809_291225.html 40,000 U.S. soldiers have deserted from military since 2000: report printResizeButton(); Some 40,000 personnel from all branches of the U.S. military have deserted since 2000, U.S. media quoted Pentagon sources as saying Tuesday. From the total, more than half had served in the U.S. Army, according to the report. Anti-war organizations said that the mass desertions were due to the strong resistance to war which is more prevalent than the military has openly admitted. "They (U.S. military) lied in Vietnam about the amount of opposition to the war and they're lying now," said Eric Seitz, an attorney who
represents Army Lt. Ehren Watada, the first commissioned officer to refuse to join his brigade when it was sent to Iraq last month. He is now under military custody in Fort Lewis, Washington. A 2002 Army report said that desertion was fairly constant but "tends to worsen during wartime." Source: Xinhua [snip]___Biofuel mailing
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Re: [Biofuel] What the bleep -was galloway

2006-08-11 Thread Michael Redler

"Tesla invented the modern world far more than Edison or Westinghouse or Marconi." Damn! I didn't even know the modern world was invented. - Redler (average person) Kirk McLoren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:I am not a fan of that Ramtha person. She is quite egotistical. But I would not dismiss the whole film out of hand. Some interesting comments were made that are valid. Remember these people tried to explain the "unexplainable" at least using the frame of reference of the man in the street. Try explaining the federal reserve to the average person. They may surprise you with the difficulty they have with some far simpler concepts than what "bleep" was trying to address. As for Ramtha
remember people dont want magic, they demand it. A successful club owner told me that. I think he is correct. Modern science is full of showmanship and misrepresentation as well. Edison gets credit for Tesla's work and so on. Tesla invented the modern world far more than Edison or Westinghouse or Marconi. What does the average person know though? We arent a tenth as clever as we think we are. KirkJoe Street <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Here is a link to an entry in the skeptic's dictionary about the producer of that movie. Have a read and do a check on the 'experts' that appeared in that movie to see what their peers have to say about them if you want to have a good laugh.http://skepdic.com/channel.htmlToo funny!JoeM&K DuPree wrote: Hi D...thank you. Say, thank you too for alerting me way back when to the video What the Bleep Do We Know? Outstanding. Will be watching again. Mike- Original Message - From: D. Mindock To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 1:51 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] George Galloway _ Lebanon. View it whileyou can Mike, See: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1828245 which has a blurb plus links. Peace, D. Mindock- Original Message - From: M&K DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 2:20 PM Subject: [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Re: George Galloway _ Lebanon. View it whileyou canLet me also add this note. I haven't checked the Pentagon site for this info. Maybe someone else would care to research it and verify. But here you. -- Mike DuPree http://english.people.com.cn//200608/09/eng20060809_291225.html 40,000 U.S. soldiers have deserted from military since 2000: report printResizeButton(); Some 40,000 personnel from all branches of the U.S. military have deserted since 2000, U.S. media quoted Pentagon sources as saying Tuesday. From the total, more than half had served in the U.S. Army, according to the report. Anti-war organizations said that the mass desertions were due to the strong resistance to war which is more prevalent than the military has openly admitted. "They (U.S. military) lied in Vietnam about the amount of opposition to the war and they're lying now," said Eric Seitz, an attorney who represents Army Lt. Ehren Watada, the first commissioned officer to refuse to join his brigade when it was sent to Iraq last month. He is now under military custody in Fort Lewis, Washington. A 2002 Army report said that desertion was fairly constant but "tends to worsen during wartime." Source: Xinhua [snip]___
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Re: [Biofuel] Fuel Help

I would expect any fuel that old to be half digested by bacteria.  KirkZeke Yewdall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  Are we so strapped for fuel that we have to siphon 20 year old stuff out of helicopters now???     I guess it does make more sense than throwing it away, so I'd go for it.  Since the main problem with kerosene in diesel engines is lack of lubricity, I'd mix it with biodiesel instead of diesel -- offset the low lubricity stuff with high lubricity stuff.   Also, the whole impetus behind the army developing diesel motorcycles is apparently so they don't have to bring gasoline along at all -- helicopters, tanks, dirt bikes, everything will run on the same jet fuel Z  On 8/11/06, Joe Street <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  Hi Paul;I can't say for sure but I have heard of the guys who work as ground crew at the Tortonto airport putting jet fuel in their diesel cars.  Apparently fuel which is drained from wing tanks is not allowed to be put back in so they often have some 'waste'.JoePaul S Cantrell wrote:Good Afternoon all,I have an interesting story for ya'll today.  I work at a small military college.  Being a military school, we have a tank, a personnel carrier, a rocket, several howitzers, an F-4 Phantom, an anchor and a
 Huey Cobra helicopter on the parade field.  The helicopter is why I'm writing.  It was donated by the national guard 20 years ago and the engine was removed.  However, the FUEL was not removed.  It smells like kerosene.  It is colorless/clear and dry, since the fuel tanks were full and sealed the whole time.  This discovery was made when we decided to move it to pour a concrete pad for it.A sample weighs exactly 800 grams per liter (digital scale is +/-20 grams), so it is too heavy to be JP4 (50% gasoline/50%kerosene + additives), too light for diesel and about right to be JP8 (100% kerosene + additives). I referenced this website for densities of fuel:http://www.simetric.co.uk/si_liquids.htm I have a 98 VW Jetta TDI that has half a tank of regualar #2 diesel in it at the moment. I know up
 north in the US the fuel companies mix diesel with kerosene up to 50/50 in the winter time.  Also, as I understand it, the new ULSD is very similar to kerosene.Should I have any reservation mixing it up to 50/50 in my car?  I don't really, I just wanted to share the story and hear from ya'll.No real answers at the TDIClub website.-- Thanks,PCHe's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switch The genius of you Americans is that you never make clear-cut stupid moves, only complicated stupid moves which make us wonder at the possibility that there may be something to them which we are missing. - Gamal Abdel Nasser ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org  Biofuel at Journey to Forever:  http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):  http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/  ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to
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Re: [Biofuel] Fuel Help

2006-08-11 Thread Zeke Yewdall

Are we so strapped for fuel that we have to siphon 20 year old stuff out of helicopters now???     I guess it does make more sense than throwing it away, so I'd go for it.  Since the main problem with kerosene in diesel engines is lack of lubricity, I'd mix it with biodiesel instead of diesel -- offset the low lubricity stuff with high lubricity stuff.   Also, the whole impetus behind the army developing diesel motorcycles is apparently so they don't have to bring gasoline along at all -- helicopters, tanks, dirt bikes, everything will run on the same jet fuel 
ZOn 8/11/06, Joe Street <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



  
  


Hi Paul;

I can't say for sure but I have heard of the guys who work as ground
crew at the Tortonto airport putting jet fuel in their diesel cars. 
Apparently fuel which is drained from wing tanks is not allowed to be
put back in so they often have some 'waste'.

Joe

Paul S Cantrell wrote:
Good Afternoon all,
I have an interesting story for ya'll today.  I work at a small
military college.  Being a military school, we have a tank, a personnel
carrier, a rocket, several howitzers, an F-4 Phantom, an anchor and a
Huey Cobra helicopter on the parade field.  The helicopter is why I'm
writing.  It was donated by the national guard 20 years ago and the
engine was removed.  However, the FUEL was not removed. 
It smells like kerosene.  It is colorless/clear and dry, since the fuel
tanks were full and sealed the whole time.  This discovery was made
when we decided to move it to pour a concrete pad for it.
  
A sample weighs exactly 800 grams per liter (digital scale is +/-20
grams), so it is too heavy to be JP4 (50% gasoline/50%kerosene +
additives), too light for diesel and about right to be JP8 (100%
kerosene + additives).
  
I referenced this website for densities of fuel:
  http://www.simetric.co.uk/si_liquids.htm
  
  
I have a 98 VW Jetta TDI that has half a tank of regualar #2 diesel in
it at the moment.
  
  
I know up north in the US the fuel companies mix diesel with kerosene
up to 50/50 in the winter time.  Also, as I understand it, the new ULSD
is very similar to kerosene.
  
Should I have any reservation mixing it up to 50/50 in my car?  I don't
really, I just wanted to share the story and hear from ya'll.
  
No real answers at the TDIClub website.
  
-- 
Thanks,
PC
  
He's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switch
  
  
The genius of you Americans is that you never make clear-cut stupid
moves, only complicated stupid moves which make us wonder at the
possibility that there may be something to them which we are missing. -
Gamal Abdel Nasser
  
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Re: [Biofuel] Fuel Help

2006-08-11 Thread Joe Street





Hi Paul;

I can't say for sure but I have heard of the guys who work as ground
crew at the Tortonto airport putting jet fuel in their diesel cars. 
Apparently fuel which is drained from wing tanks is not allowed to be
put back in so they often have some 'waste'.

Joe

Paul S Cantrell wrote:
Good Afternoon all,
I have an interesting story for ya'll today.  I work at a small
military college.  Being a military school, we have a tank, a personnel
carrier, a rocket, several howitzers, an F-4 Phantom, an anchor and a
Huey Cobra helicopter on the parade field.  The helicopter is why I'm
writing.  It was donated by the national guard 20 years ago and the
engine was removed.  However, the FUEL was not removed. 
It smells like kerosene.  It is colorless/clear and dry, since the fuel
tanks were full and sealed the whole time.  This discovery was made
when we decided to move it to pour a concrete pad for it.
  
A sample weighs exactly 800 grams per liter (digital scale is +/-20
grams), so it is too heavy to be JP4 (50% gasoline/50%kerosene +
additives), too light for diesel and about right to be JP8 (100%
kerosene + additives).
  
I referenced this website for densities of fuel:
  http://www.simetric.co.uk/si_liquids.htm
  
  
I have a 98 VW Jetta TDI that has half a tank of regualar #2 diesel in
it at the moment.
  
  
I know up north in the US the fuel companies mix diesel with kerosene
up to 50/50 in the winter time.  Also, as I understand it, the new ULSD
is very similar to kerosene.
  
Should I have any reservation mixing it up to 50/50 in my car?  I don't
really, I just wanted to share the story and hear from ya'll.
  
No real answers at the TDIClub website.
  
-- 
Thanks,
PC
  
He's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switch
  
  
The genius of you Americans is that you never make clear-cut stupid
moves, only complicated stupid moves which make us wonder at the
possibility that there may be something to them which we are missing. -
Gamal Abdel Nasser
  

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Re: [Biofuel] Fw: White House official: "weeks before September 11th, this is going to play big"

2006-08-11 Thread Jason & Katie

who said anything about Islamic fascists? its the christian fascists
that bother me...
On Fri, 2006-08-11 at 02:09 -0500, D. Mindock wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Lest you think the Bush administration would overlook any opportunity to use 
> any event for partisan political gain.
> 
> Now if only the Democrats would call him and the Republicans on the fact 
> that Osama's been forgotten. [Also that 9/11 happened with the Repugs in 
> power. The FBI agents in the field, prior to 9/11, reporting highly 
> suspicious activity were told, to their dismay, to forget about it 
> repeatedly told by superiors.]
> 
> MJ
> 
> WH Official: "Weeks before September 11th, this is going to play big
> 
> Bush seeks political gains from foiled plot
> by Olivier KnoxThu Aug 10, 2:53 PM ET
> 
> US President George W. Bush seized on a foiled London airline bomb plot to 
> hammer unnamed critics he accused of having all but forgotten the September 
> 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.
> Weighed down by the unpopular war in Iraq, Bush and his aides have tried to 
> shift the national political debate from that conflict to the broader and 
> more popular global war on terrorism ahead of November 7 congressional 
> elections.
> The London conspiracy is "a stark reminder that this nation is at war with 
> Islamic fascists who will use any means to destroy those of us who love 
> freedom, to hurt our nation," the president said on a day trip to Wisconsin.
> "It is a mistake to believe there is no threat to the United States of 
> America," he said. "We've taken a lot of measures to protect the American 
> people. But obviously we still aren't completely safe."
> His remarks came a day after the White House orchestrated an exceptionally 
> aggressive campaign to tar opposition Democrats as weak on terrorism, 
> knowing what Democrats didn't: News of the plot could soon break.
> Vice President Dick Cheney and White House spokesman Tony Snow had argued 
> that Democrats wanted to raise what Snow called "a white flag in the war on 
> terror," citing as evidence the defeat of a three-term Democratic senator 
> who backed the Iraq war in his effort to win renomination.
> But Bush aides on Thursday fought the notion that they had exploited their 
> knowledge of the coming British raid to hit Democrats, saying the trigger 
> had been the defeat of Democratic Senator Joseph Lieberman of Connecticut by 
> an anti-war political novice.
> "The comments were purely and simply a reaction" to Democratic voters who 
> "removed a pro-defense Senator and sent the message that the party would not 
> tolerate candidates with such views," said Snow.
> The public relations offensive "was not done in anticipation. It was not 
> said with the knowledge that this was coming," the spokesman said.
> Snow said Bush first learned in detail about the plot on Friday, and 
> received two detailed briefings on it on Saturday and Sunday, as well as had 
> two conversations about it with British Prime Minister Tony Blair.
> But a senior White House official said that the British government had not 
> launched its raid until well after Cheney held a highly unusual conference 
> call with reporters to attack the Democrats as weak against terrorism.
> An aide to Lieberman, who would have been one of the first Democrats to hear 
> of the plot because he is the top Democrat on the Senate Homeland Security 
> Committee, said the lawmaker first heard of it late Wednesday.
> On Wednesday, Cheney had suggested that Democrats believe "that somehow we 
> can retreat behind our oceans and not be actively engaged in this conflict 
> and be safe here at home, which clearly we know we won't, we can't, be," he 
> said.
> While some Democrats have opposed some steps in the war on terrorism, and 
> more and more are calling for a withdrawal from Iraq, no major figures in 
> the party have called for a wholesale retreat in the broader conflict.
> But Bush's Republicans hoped the raid would yield political gains.
> "I'd rather be talking about this than all of the other things that Congress 
> hasn't done well," one Republican congressional aide told AFP on condition 
> of anonymity because of possible reprisals.
> "Weeks before September 11th, this is going to play big," said another White 
> House official, who also spoke on condition of not being named, adding that 
> some Democratic candidates won't "look as appealing" under the 
> circumstances.
> Copyright © 2006 Agence France Presse . All rights reserved. The information 
> contained in the AFP News report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten 
> or redistributed without the prior written authority of Agence France 
> Presse.
> 
> Copyright © 2006 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.  And:
> 
> Plot was under investigation for a few months...The American media will most 
> likely not say this...fear...fear...fear...gotta keep people afraid!!
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/story/0,,-6006659,00.html
> 
> Details of the plot only emerged fo

[Biofuel] Fuel Help

Good Afternoon all,I have an interesting story for ya'll today.  I work at a small military college.  Being a military school, we have a tank, a personnel carrier, a rocket, several howitzers, an F-4 Phantom, an anchor and a Huey Cobra helicopter on the parade field.  The helicopter is why I'm writing.  It was donated by the national guard 20 years ago and the engine was removed.  However, the FUEL was not removed. 
It smells like kerosene.  It is colorless/clear and dry, since the fuel tanks were full and sealed the whole time.  This discovery was made when we decided to move it to pour a concrete pad for it.A sample weighs exactly 800 grams per liter (digital scale is +/-20 grams), so it is too heavy to be JP4 (50% gasoline/50%kerosene + additives), too light for diesel and about right to be JP8 (100% kerosene + additives).
I referenced this website for densities of fuel:http://www.simetric.co.uk/si_liquids.htm
I have a 98 VW Jetta TDI that has half a tank of regualar #2 diesel in it at the moment.
I know up north in the US the fuel companies mix diesel with kerosene up to 50/50 in the winter time.  Also, as I understand it, the new ULSD is very similar to kerosene.Should I have any reservation mixing it up to 50/50 in my car?  
I don't really, I just wanted to share the story and hear from ya'll.No real answers at the TDIClub website.-- Thanks,PCHe's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switch
The genius of you Americans is that you never make clear-cut stupid moves, only complicated stupid moves which make us wonder at the possibility that there may be something to them which we are missing. - Gamal Abdel Nasser


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Re: [Biofuel] test please

2006-08-11 Thread D.V Subramanian

Yes, I got yr test msg. 
D.V.S. ManiOn 8/11/06, root <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
please reply if this gets through, i changed email clients, and now ikeep getting rejected emails from [EMAIL PROTECTED]___
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Re: [Biofuel] Sweden how they do it

2006-08-11 Thread Mark` Cookson


Hellow every one I was listening to the radio this afternoon here int the UK 
and a programme come on called Costing the Earth. Its subject was how Sweden 
are changing away from fossil fuels.
I found it very interesting as you may.

Follow the link here then go down the left of the page to [Listen to the 
latest programme  link] hey presto!!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/costingtheearth.shtml

Good luck

Mark



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[Biofuel] Bush and Blair

http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?vid=3873acd4c904f2b2d8e094d02e9a5f7e.607491 
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Re: [Biofuel] What the bleep -was galloway

I am not a fan of that Ramtha person. She is quite egotistical. But I would not dismiss the whole film out of hand. Some interesting comments were made that are valid. Remember these people tried to explain the "unexplainable" at least using the frame of reference of the man in the street. Try explaining the federal reserve to the average person. They may surprise you with the difficulty they have with some far simpler concepts than what "bleep" was trying to address. As for Ramtha remember people dont want magic, they demand it. A successful club owner told me that. I think he is correct. Modern science is full of showmanship and misrepresentation as well. Edison gets credit for Tesla's work and so on. Tesla invented the modern world far more than Edison or Westinghouse or Marconi. What does the average person know though? We arent a tenth as clever as we think we
are. KirkJoe Street <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Here is a link to an entry in the skeptic's dictionary about the producer of that movie. Have a read and do a check on the 'experts' that appeared in that movie to see what their peers have to say about them if you want to have a good laugh.http://skepdic.com/channel.htmlToo funny!JoeM&K DuPree wrote: Hi D...thank you. Say, thank you too for alerting me way back when to the video What the Bleep Do We Know? Outstanding.
Will be watching again. Mike- Original Message - From: D. Mindock To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 1:51 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] George Galloway _ Lebanon. View it whileyou can Mike, See: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1828245 which has a blurb plus links. Peace, D. Mindock- Original Message - From: M&K DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 2:20 PM Subject: [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Re: George Galloway _ Lebanon. View it whileyou canLet me also add this note. I haven't checked the Pentagon site for this info. Maybe someone else would care to
research it and verify. But here you. -- Mike DuPree http://english.people.com.cn//200608/09/eng20060809_291225.html 40,000 U.S. soldiers have deserted from military since 2000: report printResizeButton(); Some 40,000 personnel from all branches of the U.S. military have deserted since 2000, U.S. media quoted Pentagon sources as saying Tuesday. From the total, more than half had served in the U.S. Army, according to the report. Anti-war organizations said that the mass desertions were due to the strong resistance to war which is more prevalent than the military has openly admitted. "They (U.S. military) lied in Vietnam about the amount of opposition to the war and they're lying now," said Eric Seitz, an attorney who represents Army Lt. Ehren Watada, the first commissioned officer to refuse to join his brigade when it was sent to Iraq last month. He is now under military custody in Fort Lewis, Washington. A 2002 Army report said that desertion was fairly constant but "tends to worsen during wartime." Source: Xinhua - Original Message - From: Joe Street To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 12:15 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] George Galloway _ Lebanon. View it while you can Throughout my life, growing up, initially ignoring the news like most children, then paying more attention and then eventually learning of media control and being disgusted and so again ignoring, and then returning and watching it as a propaganda source and as an indicator of where
control is being exercised has been a gradual process of unfolding for me. But there through it all has been a voice I have often heard. One of the quieter voices that sometimes gets a chance at the microphone but generally not, is the voice that keeps saying there are those who promote war. War is needed. War is what sustains some element of the warped western society. That voice is ringing in my head now and I wonder where the next conflict will spring up. It is true. I guess the situation in Iraq has turned into one where the US is spending more than it wants to and using too many of it's own weapons because it has to. It only makes sense that a conflict needs to happen elsewhere where weapons need to be used up which are bought and paid for and replaced with new ones which are bought and paid for. Where will the next cash cow be? Can anyone guess?JoeKirk McLoren wrote:It appears Bush has at least 3 motives for war. 1. OIL 2. support of radical right "Christianity" and their "end time" views thus their support of war. 3. Support of his allie Israel which wants his support for their expansionism. His father when director of CIA furthered this by CIA bankrolling Murdoch so he could purchase all the media which we see is now pro Israel. News reporting is not what they do. CONsensus forming is what they do. Basic

Re: [Biofuel] Bayer Sells AIDS-Infected Drug Banned in U.S. in Europe, Asia

More psychopathic behaviour  It is the norm not the exception.  Without accountability they will not self regulate.   The truth is not in them.     Kirk"D. Mindock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  http://www.mercola.com/2006/aug/5/bayer_sells_aids-infected_drug_banned_in_us_in_europe_asia.htmBayer Sells AIDS-Infected Drug Banned in U.S. in Europe, AsiaRecently unearthed documents show that the drug company Bayer sold millionsof dollars worth of an injectable blood-clotting medicine -- Factor VIIIconcentrate, intended for hemophiliacs -- to Asian, Latin American, and someEuropean countries in the mid-1980s, although they knew that it was taintedwith AIDS.The company stopped selling the drug in the United States in 1984, butcontinued to sell it overseas for an additional year.The
 medicine was made using combined plasma from large numbers of donors; atthe time, there was no screening test for the AIDS virus, so a tiny numberof donors with AIDS could inadvertently contaminate a large batch.Unloading the Drug on the UnknowingRecords show that the company continued to sell the medicine overseas in anattempt to avoid being left with a large stock of a drug that was no longe!rmarketable in the United States. The dangers of the drug had becomewell-known domestically, but the news was slower to reach other parts of theworld.However, Bayer also continued to manufacture the medicine for several monthsafter pulling it from the market in the United States, because it wascheaper to produce than the new, safer product they were introducing as areplacement.Although worldwide numbers are difficult to calculate, in Hong Kong andTaiwan alone, more than 100 hemophiliacs contracted HIV after using themedicine, and most have died.FDA CollusionFDA regulators helped
 to keep the continued sales hidden, asking the companythat the problem be ''quietly solved without alerting the Congress, themedical community and the public,'' according to the minutes of a 1985meeting.YouTube.com April 2, 2006http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XS3mhjt7TrY&search=BayerNew York Times May 22, 2003http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9A00E4DA1F3EF931A15756C0A9659C8B63!Dr. Mercola's Comment:YouTube is really great and is so much easier and more enjoyable thanreading current news items. Please be sure and watch the YouTube video aboveabout this unbelievable action by Bayer.I'm sure you'll be as upset as I was to watch this recent video clip fromMSNBC's Scarborough Country, and read the original article in the New YorkTimes.Bayer knew this drug was killing people, but they considered theirbottom-line profits more important than human lives. Think about that. Moneyis more important to them than your life.What more proof could you
 possibly want that the drug companies simply doNOT care about you, they are NOT on your side, and they are NOT benevolent.The purpose of a corporation is to make a profit. Their intention is not tomake you well, but to sell you their drugs. Even if the drugs just make yousicker. In some cases, even if the drugs kill you, as long as they can getaway with it.Fight for Your Health is an excellent book that reviews this topic in moredetail and does a wonderful job of exposing the FDA's bet!rayal of America.It explains that this shocking behavior by Bayer is not surprising al all ifyou merely examine history. Between the mid-1920s and mid-1940s Bayer waspart of the notorious IG Farben that was intimately involved with the humanexperimental atrocities committed by Mengele at Auschwitz.Eyewitness testimonies held in the Auschwitz camp archive show the doctorwho force-fed prisoners pills worked for the pharmaceutical company Bayerwhen it was part of the IG Farben conglomerate.
 Seems little has changed atBayer in the fifty years since World War II.This information might cause you to have second thoughts about everpurchasing another bottle of Bayer aspirin.And please remember you can't count on the U.S. government to act on thesetypes of atrocities.When the French government discovered the Bayer coverup going on under theirnoses, officials who made the decision to bring the tainted drug to theircountry were arrested and sent to prison. In America, however, no Bay!erofficial has ever been investigated or indicted.The FDA actually allowed this to happen and did nothing to prevent it. Tokill innocent women and children because Bayer wanted to turn theirpotential loss into a profit.Thanks to changes in the laws over the past 20 years or so, the FDA isactually being funded by the corporations they are supposed to regulate.Corporations are now their "partners" and "clients."The real purpose of the FDA is to put a stamp of approval on drugs so
 thatpeople believe they are safe; these days, they care very little about actualdrug safety. If you had any lingering belief that the FDA is able to protectyour health, this story should remove any doubt.Events such as this, which are sadly all too common, are why I will doeverything in my po

Re: [Biofuel] Synfuel charade fizzles

same with the colorado oil shale. They will build all sorts of pilot plants with taxpayer funds. Then the oil companies will own what was built. Same as the hydro dams in Montana and I am sure every citizen can find examples in their state of residence. And when the tax funds dry up they will blow away in the night. Kirk"D. Mindock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: http://www.wvgazette.com/section/Editorials/2006081010August 11, 2006SynfuelsCharade fizzles [but not before they made $billions]THE federal synfuels tax credit sounded like a good idea in 1980 - give breaks to companies that create brand-new synthetic fuels to reduce the nation's dependence on foreign oil.But in practice, it became partly a rip-off. Some firms produced
dubious fuel, just to cash in on the large U.S. tax credit.It was amazing what qualified as a synfuel. Some processes involved spraying already marketable coal with diesel fuel or pine tar emulsions to change the chemistry just enough to get the tax credit. Some processes actually reduced the amount of energy the coal yielded. Producers might as well have dipped the coal in blue cheese and called it an alternative fuel.Between 2003 and 2005, perhaps 55 synfuel producers claimed $9 billion in tax credits, Time magazine estimates. That's $9 billion they could simply subtract from their tax bills. Some had more tax credit than they had tax bills and sold their tax credits to other companies.But now this charade is fizzling, because the price of oil soared out of sight. When petroleum costs only $50 a barrel or so, synfuel producers qualify for the credit, on the premise that they need a federal subsidy to
compete against oil. By federal law, as oil prices climb past $60 a barrel, the tax credit declines. At $70 a barrel, oil is considered so expensive that synfuels should be able to compete on their own, and the tax credit disappears.Now that oil prices are up, all 55 coal synfuel plants across the country have simply shut down. Even with higher oil prices, they say that without the tax credit of about $26 a ton, it just isn't worth it. They laid off their workers and quit.This shows they were in business only to grab the federal giveaway. So much for using the tax credit to refine processes, develop markets and create products that could compete with foreign oil.The synfuel tax credit - which also applies to ethanol and other fuels produced around the country - will expire Dec. 31, 2007. Congress should replace it with a legitimate incentive to spur development that would lessen the nation's dependence
on foreign oil.The United States must stop monkeying around with half-baked plans that benefit opportunists, and instead put its efforts into developing true alternative energy sources - and solar power should be at the top of the list. ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
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[Biofuel] What the bleep -was galloway

2006-08-11 Thread Joe Street

Here is a link to an entry in the skeptic's dictionary about the
producer of that movie. Have a read and do a check on the 'experts'
that appeared in that movie to see what their peers have to say about
them if you want to have a good laugh.

http://skepdic.com/channel.html

Too funny!
Joe

M&K DuPree wrote:

Hi D...thank you. Say,
thank you too for alerting me way back when to the video What
the Bleep Do We Know? Outstanding. Will be watching again.
Mike

-
Original Message -
From:
D.
Mindock
To:
biofuel@sustainablelists.org

Sent:
Friday, August 11, 2006 1:51 AM
Subject:
Re: [Biofuel] George Galloway _ Lebanon. View it whileyou can

Mike,
See: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1828245 which has a blurb plus links.
Peace, D. Mindock

-
Original Message -
From:
M&K DuPree
To:
biofuel@sustainablelists.org

Sent:
Thursday, August 10, 2006 2:20 PM
Subject:
[Biofuel] {Disarmed} Re: George Galloway _ Lebanon. View it whileyou can

Let me also add this
note. I haven't checked the Pentagon site for this info. Maybe
someone else would care to research it and verify. But here you. --
Mike DuPree
http://english.people.com.cn//200608/09/eng20060809_291225.html

40,000 U.S. soldiers have deserted from
military since 2000: report

printResizeButton();

Some 40,000 personnel from all branches of the U.S.
military have deserted since 2000, U.S. media quoted Pentagon sources
as saying Tuesday.
From the total, more than half had served in the U.S.
Army, according to the report.
Anti-war organizations said that the mass desertions
were due to the strong resistance to war which is more prevalent than
the military has openly admitted.
"They (U.S. military) lied in Vietnam about the amount of opposition to the war
and they're lying now," said Eric Seitz, an attorney who represents
Army Lt. Ehren Watada, the first commissioned officer to refuse to join
his brigade when it was sent to Iraq
last month. He is now under military custody in Fort Lewis, Washington.

A 2002 Army report said that desertion was fairly
constant but "tends to worsen during wartime."
Source: Xinhua

-
Original Message -
From:
Joe Street
To:
biofuel@sustainablelists.org

Sent:
Thursday, August 10, 2006 12:15 PM
Subject:
Re: [Biofuel] George Galloway _ Lebanon. View it while you can

Throughout my life, growing up, initially ignoring the news like most
children, then paying more attention and then eventually learning of
media control and being disgusted and so again ignoring, and then
returning and watching it as a propaganda source and as an indicator of
where control is being exercised has been a gradual process of
unfolding for me. But there through it all has been a voice I have
often heard. One of the quieter voices that sometimes gets a chance at
the microphone but generally not, is the voice that keeps saying there
are those who promote war. War is needed. War is what sustains some
element of the warped western society. That voice is ringing in my head
now and I wonder where the next conflict will spring up. It is true. I
guess the situation in Iraq has turned into one where the US is
spending more than it wants to and using too many of it's own weapons
because it has to. It only makes sense that a conflict needs to happen
elsewhere where weapons need to be used up which are bought and paid
for and replaced with new ones which are bought and paid for. Where
will the next cash cow be? Can anyone guess?

Joe

Kirk McLoren wrote:

It appears Bush has at least 3 motives for war.
1. OIL
2. support of radical right "Christianity" and their
"end time" views thus their support of war.
3. Support of his allie Israel which wants his support
for their expansionism. His father when director of CIA furthered this
by CIA bankrolling Murdoch so he could purchase all the media which we
see is now pro Israel.
News reporting is not what they do. CONsensus forming is
what they do.
Basically it seems oil ambitions have joined
expansionist ambitions.Perhaps they are not so separate.
There may be another factor as well in the alliance.
see http://www.puritans.net/news/royalty022703.htm
“Both
George Bush and Barbara Pierce Bush (of Merrill, Lynch, Pierce, Fenner
and Smith) are descended from the same Pierce family of England as
Presi

[Biofuel] glycerine layer

2006-08-11 Thread RicAlls

I am about to advance to a 30 gallon reactor. All during my one and 15 liter educational phases, my glycerin layer has always resulted in a semi solid jelly but the fuel always washes beautifully in four washes to a crystal clear dark gold amber after drying. My current yield to 800 ml of fuel for every liter of WVO. If I am doing it right, the WVO titrates to 7.5. My concern is the semi solid glycerin layer. When I build my reactor, will I have to have a heater near this layer to be able to drain it, or should the layer be more liquid?
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Re: [Biofuel] Farmer in France arrested for driving vegetable-powered truck

Vive la SVO Revolution!!!On 8/9/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Forwarding from another source.You may need a subscription to see the full article via the URL.
Darryl===http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article1214520.eceFriday, August 4th, 2006John Lichfield in Paris
A French farmer faces prosecution for driving on public roads in avegetable-powered truck.Olivier Lainé, a cereals farmer based near Rouen in Normandy, believes hewill go down in history, not as a criminal, or tax-evader, but a
"revolutionary".M. Lainé, 49, was arrested near his farm by French customs officers. Hefaces prosecution for driving a vehicle powered by an "unauthorised fuel" -namely pure vegetable oil, made from colza, or rape seed, grown on his own
farm.An EU directive passed last year instructs member states to encourage theuse of pure vegetable oil as a form of fuel for diesel-powered vehicles.Paris has failed so far to translate the directive into law.
"They say that I am breaking the law. I say that they are breaking Europeanlaw," M. Lainé said. "We will see who is right. What I am doing will beseen as the beginning of a revolution. The world is short of fossil fuels.
It has a surplus of agricultural produce. Using pure vegetable oil as afuel can make a small contribution to solving both problems." M. Lainé is spokesman within the département of Seine-Maritime for the
militant small farmers' union, the Confédération Pay-sanne. The unionaccused the French government yesterday of "hypocrisy".Paris talks of making a contribution to a cleaner environment, the unionsaid, but blocks local initiatives to use pure vegetable oil.
The use of vegetable oil as fuel is authorised for vehicles while operatingon a farm. It is illegal to drive vegetable-powered vehicles on publicroads because no tax has been paid on the fuel.___
Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/-- Thanks,PCHe's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switch
The genius of you Americans is that you never make clear-cut stupid moves, only complicated stupid moves which make us wonder at the possibility that there may be something to them which we are missing. - Gamal Abdel Nasser
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[Biofuel] Eco-anarchist Murray Bookchin, 86; saw capitalism as a cancer to nature

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/obituaries/articles/2006/08/11/eco_anarchist_murray_bookchin_86_saw_capitalism_as_a_cancer_to_nature/

Eco-anarchist Murray Bookchin, 86; saw capitalism as a cancer to nature
By Valerie J. Nelson, Los Angeles Times | August 11, 2006

LOS ANGELES -- Murray Bookchin, an anticapitalist thinker who in the early
1960s was among the first theorists to bring ecology into the political
debate, arguing that economic policies based on profit were harming the
environment, has died. He was 85.

Mr. Bookchin, a teacher and author who was well known within the Green
movement, died of heart failure July 30 at his home in Burlington, Vt., said
his son, Joe.
A self-described eco-anarchist, Mr. Bookchin raised an alarm about
pesticides and promoted alternative energy sources in his 1962 book ``Our
Synthetic Environment," published several months before Rachel Carson's
better-known ``Silent Spring."

His first several books were written under the pseudonym Lewis Herber, a
common practice at the time among leftists who wanted to avoid attention
from anticommunists, said Janet Biehl, his longtime companion.

Through his writing, Mr. Bookchin introduced a theory called social ecology,
which attributes environmental woes to human behavior and a capitalistic,
consumer culture. To save the planet, he said, people needed to change how
they treat one another.

``His most telling contribution was that he saw that our economic system was
on a collision course with nature because capitalism is based on a hierarchy
of bosses and profit-seekers who always seek to turn the whole world into a
way to make money," said Sandy Baird, a former student. She studied with Mr.
Bookchin at the Institute for Social Ecology, which he cofounded in 1971 in
Plainfield, Vt., to further his ideas.

The view put him at odds in the 1980s with the ideas of other
environmentalists, including biocentric ``deep ecologists," who see humanity
as a disproportionately destructive species, and New Age-style
spiritualists, who seek mystical or meditative solutions to environmental
problems.

``I don't regard people as a cancer on the planet," Mr. Bookchin wrote in a
publication called Green Perspectives. ``The real cancer that afflicts the
planet is capitalism and hierarchy."

To ecologists whose world view is primarily spiritual, he added, ``I don't
think we can count on prayers, rituals, and good vibes to remove this
cancer; I think we have to fight it with all the power we have."

A typical response from a biocentrist: ``Compost the word anarchy and do
something real."

In 1992, the Independent newspaper of London called Mr. Bookchin ``probably
the foremost Green philosopher of the age."

The author of more than two dozen books, he wrote extensively on the
environment, including ``The Ecology of Freedom," published in 1982 and
regarded as one of the ``classic statements of contemporary anarchism," the
Independent said. He also wrote about politics, philosophy, history, and
urban affairs.

His writings strongly influenced Green political parties in the United
States and Europe, and he was the keynote speaker at the 1987 founding
conference of the US Green Party in Amherst, Biehl said.

Mr. Bookchin was born in the Bronx on Jan. 14, 1921. He traced his
revolutionary fervor to his Russian-Jewish immigrant parents, Nathan and
Rose Bookchin. His father, a farmer who had been active in the revolution
against the czar in Russia, became a hatter in his new country.

By 9, Mr. Bookchin had joined the communist-run Young Pioneers, but he left
the organization at 16 because he didn't like the authoritarian nature of
the international communist movement.

He worked in a foundry and as a union organizer in New Jersey before joining
the Army during World War II. Stationed at Fort Knox, he helped teach the
troops to drive tanks.

After the war, Mr. Bookchin became an autoworker at General Motors, helping
to organize a large strike in 1946.

When he began to see the leftist movement of the 1930s become as
bureaucratic and centralized as the ``capitalist machine" it hoped to
topple, he transformed from a Marxist into an anarchist, Mr. Bookchin told
the Los Angeles Times in 1989.

Growing up, he developed a love of nature while hiking in national parks,
and, through his writing, his postwar politics turned from red to green. As
early as 1952, he wrote about the problems of chemicals in food, and he
spent much of the 1960s crisscrossing the United States and Canada lecturing
about ecology, Biehl said.
A voracious reader, he was largely self-taught and had a reputation as a
spellbinding orator. He never earned a college degree, yet was a professor
at Ramapo College of New Jersey from 1977 to 1981.

As a teacher, he was ``incredibly provocative and knowledgeable," Baird
said.

For a dozen years, Mr. Bookchin was married to the former Beatrice
Appelstein, the mother of his son Joe, and daughter Debbi

[Biofuel] Fw: Interesting analysis




Coincidence or not? My gut 
feeling is not.  Peace, D. 
Mindock

 


U.K. Terror Plot Foiled Just a Day after Lieberman's Defeat. 
Coincidence?

Submitted by BuzzFlash on Thu, 
08/10/2006 - 10:29am. Analysis 

A BUZZFLASH NEWS ANALYSIS
The pattern continues. A terrorist plot is uncovered just as the masses start 
to question national security strategy. The day after Senate Democrats brought a 
vote to pull out of Iraq, we catch a few idiots in Miami who were supposedly trying 
to blow up the Sears Tower, despite the fact that they lacked the means and 
ability to do so. Then there were the guys busted for supposedly plotting to blow up 
a New York subway exactly a year after the London bus bombings. And don't 
forget the release of new 
Osama bin Laden tapes just before the 2004 election as well as the very day 
after the Supreme Court decision striking down the Guantanamo Bay military 
tribunals. And now today, a few men in England were arrested for a plan to blow 
up planes flying to America, just a day after Connecticut voters flatly rejected 
Joe Lieberman and the war in Iraq.
We certainly can't deny that there may have indeed been plans to commit these 
acts. But the timings of the arrest announcements are awfully suspicious. All 
three were still in the works and had been monitored for several months by very 
capable intelligence agencies. While the exact nature of today's arrests is 
still unclear, none of the plans seemed to have been immediate or imminent 
threats. The decision of when to intervene has been arbitrary, making the 
coincidental timings pretty convenient. 
(And the question of whether some of them are "real threats," such as the 
Liberty City "Insane Clown Posse" remain to be seen. And, of course, as 
BuzzFlash pointed out in several commentaries, the alleged plot to bomb tunnels 
into Manhattan in order to "flood the financial district and ruin the Wall 
Street economy" had one fatal flaw.  Water does not flow upwards, and since 
Manhattan is above sea level, the plan, as the Busheviks promoted it through the 
press, was impossible.  It defied the laws of gravity.) 
Imagine a conversation late Tuesday night between Bush and his British Prime 
Minister lapdog, just as Ned Lamont declares victory. "Yo, Blair," Bush says 
while scarfing down a dinner role. "I gotta to do something about this sh*t. Can 
you finally arrest those suspected terrorists you told me about? This election 
business is ruining my vacation! I know you're chillin' in the Caribbean 
yourself right now, but it sure would be great if you could make a few calls for 
me ASAP."
Don't buy it? Consider this quote from a Reuters 
article on the story: "President George W. Bush had known about the 
investigation for several days, was briefed about it regularly and knew the 
arrests were coming, a senior administration official said." Both countries are 
surely monitoring several terrorist leads that could lead to arrests at any 
time. The British group would have been stopped eventually, but there has been 
absolutely no indication why it had to be today.
Just yesterday Tony Snow and Dick Cheney told America that Lieberman's loss 
was going to make us less safe and warned of the dangers of our supposedly 
weakened resolve against terrorism. What better way to drive the point home than 
to catch some terrorists in England immediately afterwards? Based on a 
quote from the U.K. Guardian, the Brits seem to have the same agenda: "The 
events unfolded just hours after (English Home Secretary John Reid) used a 
speech to a thinktank to accuse critics of the government's anti-terrorism 
measures of putting national security at risk through their failure to recognize 
the serious nature of the threat facing Britain."If the timing of the 
media announcement wasn't a political ploy, the rhetoric and propaganda sure 
are. "It was in some respects suggestive of an al-Qaeda plot," Homeland Security 
Director Chertoff said. Attorney General Gonzales also noted it was "suggestive 
of al-Qaeda tactics," and FBI director Robert Mueller claimed "this had the 
earmarks [sic] of an al-Qaeda plot." They still warned that it was too early to 
reach any conclusions, yet had no problems with dropping the name of the feared 
organization to implant the connection in our heads without proof. If they don't 
know, they shouldn't even make the suggestion. The Bush Administration has 
become masterful at scaring the bejesus out of us without actually saying 
anything factual. They did exactly the same thing when they were trying to 
connect Saddam to terrorists. The lengthy press conference today had an awful 
lot of "we believe" and not very much "we know."
For his part, Bush personally declared that "it is a mistake to believe there 
is no threat to the United States of America" because "this nation is at war 
with Islamic fascists."
There's also the mixed messages. On the one hand, Bush/Blair policies have

[Biofuel] Bayer Sells AIDS-Infected Drug Banned in U.S. in Europe, Asia

 
http://www.mercola.com/2006/aug/5/bayer_sells_aids-infected_drug_banned_in_us_in_europe_asia.htmBayer
 Sells AIDS-Infected Drug Banned in U.S. in Europe, AsiaRecently unearthed 
documents show that the drug company Bayer sold millionsof dollars worth of an 
injectable blood-clotting medicine -- Factor VIIIconcentrate, intended for 
hemophiliacs -- to Asian, Latin American, and someEuropean countries in the 
mid-1980s, although they knew that it was taintedwith AIDS.The company stopped 
selling the drug in the United States in 1984, butcontinued to sell it overseas 
for an additional year.The medicine was made using combined plasma from large 
numbers of donors; atthe time, there was no screening test for the AIDS virus, 
so a tiny numberof donors with AIDS could inadvertently contaminate a large 
batch.Unloading the Drug on the UnknowingRecords show that the company 
continued to sell the medicine overseas in anattempt to avoid being left with a 
large stock of a drug that was no longe!
 rmarketable in the United States. The dangers of the drug had becomewell-known 
domestically, but the news was slower to reach other parts of theworld.However, 
Bayer also continued to manufacture the medicine for several monthsafter 
pulling it from the market in the United States, because it wascheaper to 
produce than the new, safer product they were introducing as 
areplacement.Although worldwide numbers are difficult to calculate, in Hong 
Kong andTaiwan alone, more than 100 hemophiliacs contracted HIV after using 
themedicine, and most have died.FDA CollusionFDA regulators helped to keep the 
continued sales hidden, asking the companythat the problem be ''quietly solved 
without alerting the Congress, themedical community and the public,'' according 
to the minutes of a 1985meeting.YouTube.com April 2, 
2006http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XS3mhjt7TrY&search=BayerNew York Times May 
22, 
2003http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9A00E4DA1F3EF931A15756C0A9659C8B63!
 Dr. Mercola's Comment:YouTube is really great and is so much easier an
d more enjoyable thanreading current news items. Please be sure and watch the 
YouTube video aboveabout this unbelievable action by Bayer.I'm sure you'll be 
as upset as I was to watch this recent video clip fromMSNBC's Scarborough 
Country, and read the original article in the New YorkTimes.Bayer knew this 
drug was killing people, but they considered theirbottom-line profits more 
important than human lives. Think about that. Moneyis more important to them 
than your life.What more proof could you possibly want that the drug companies 
simply doNOT care about you, they are NOT on your side, and they are NOT 
benevolent.The purpose of a corporation is to make a profit. Their intention is 
not tomake you well, but to sell you their drugs. Even if the drugs just make 
yousicker. In some cases, even if the drugs kill you, as long as they can 
getaway with it.Fight for Your Health is an excellent book that reviews this 
topic in moredetail and does a wonderful job of exposing the FDA's bet!
 rayal of America.It explains that this shocking behavior by Bayer is not 
surprising al all ifyou merely examine history.  Between the mid-1920s and 
mid-1940s Bayer waspart of the notorious IG Farben that  was intimately 
involved with the humanexperimental atrocities committed by Mengele at 
Auschwitz.Eyewitness testimonies held in the Auschwitz camp archive show the 
doctorwho force-fed prisoners pills worked for the pharmaceutical company 
Bayerwhen it was part of the IG Farben conglomerate. Seems little has changed 
atBayer in the fifty years since World War II.This information might cause you 
to have second thoughts about everpurchasing another bottle of Bayer 
aspirin.And please remember you can't count on the U.S. government to act on 
thesetypes of atrocities.When the French government discovered the Bayer 
coverup going on under theirnoses, officials who made the decision to bring the 
tainted drug to theircountry were arrested and sent to prison. In America, 
however, no Bay!
 erofficial has ever been investigated or indicted.The FDA actually all
owed this to happen and did nothing to prevent it. Tokill innocent women and 
children because Bayer wanted to turn theirpotential loss into a profit.Thanks 
to changes in the laws over the past 20 years or so, the FDA isactually being 
funded by the corporations they are supposed to regulate.Corporations are now 
their "partners" and "clients."The real purpose of the FDA is to put a stamp of 
approval on drugs so thatpeople believe they are safe; these days, they care 
very little about actualdrug safety. If you had any lingering belief that the 
FDA is able to protectyour health, this story should remove any doubt.Events 
such as this, which are sadly all too common, are why I will doeverything in my 
power to transform the conventional system of medicine,which allows these types 
of unconsciousable behavior.   

_

Re: [Biofuel] the tax man cometh

2006-08-11 Thread Thor Burfine


		Well Scott, Here in Texas we can actually apply for rebates for non road use fuel.I spent two hours last quarter doing the paperwork, including reviewing all receipts, and was entitled to a wopping $93.27.It was worth my time but not the migrane
		

From: "Scott Burton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 12:24 AMTo: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] the tax man cometh
		
		
		

		
An interesting tidbit of information on this.  If the U.S. Government is spending 750 billion on defense, they are spending on defense roughly every U.S. Dollar in circulation worldwide.
		


		


		 

		
In April of 2000 the Treasury estimated the total U.S. Currency in circulation worldwide was 600 billion.  Yet our government manages to spend more than that every year.
		


		


		 

		
Isn't it nice to not be bound by laws and be able to call a budget balanced simply because you make your budgeted amount match your actual expenditures?  (Note this doesn't mean balancing expenditures with receipts in government, just making sure you only are spending what you say you're going to spend.  That's a "Balanced Budget" )
		


		


		 

		
That's just my quick comment.
		


		


		 

		
Back to the tax requirements, I'm not sure about other states, but in Oklahoma the tax is required on fuels to be used as on-road motor fuel.
		


		


		 

		
Two things stand out to me about this.
		


		


		 

		
"On road motor fuel" a fuel used by a motor on the road.
		


		


		 

		
Shouldn't I be entitled to a refund of these taxes for the portions which are used OFF ROAD?  While this doesn't sound like much at first let's just consider.
		


		
My car is running in a parking lot - That is NOT on road.
		


		
My car is running in my driveway - Again that's NOT on road.
		


		
I have to use a diesel generator during a power outage - NOT on road.
		


		
I have to move building supplies, fencing supplies, etc on my property - NOT on road.
		


		
Tractor used to harvest my crops - NOT on road.
		


		


		 

		
I could go on, but honestly I guess I should be sending the state a bill every month or so for a tax rebate.  Only a couple bucks tops, but you know if I owed them, they'd be all over me.
		


		


		 

		
Kind of makes one think.
		


		


		 

		
--Scott Burton
		


		


		 

		

		

		

		
		

		
From:
		


		 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael RedlerSent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 8:17 AMTo: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] the tax man cometh

		


		


		 

		

		Hey Bob,

		


		

		
		
 


		

		I think your situation reinforces the idea that fuel/energy dependence isn't an OPEC thing and that the problem is home grown. If corporations and local governments didn't work together to limit the number of sources, you couldn't effectively tax it. I'm not against taxes, just how I'm taxed and what it's spent on (i.e. 750,000,000,000 on "defense").

		


		

		
		
 


		

		If my local government tried something like that with me, I'd seriously consider producer gas as a fuel. Let them try and noodle out a method of measuring and taxing CO and H2 by the cubic foot. The perfect fuel for a bureaucracy. The longer one waits to measure it, the less fuel their is to measure.

		


		

		
		
 


		

		:-)

		


		

		
		
 


		

		- Redler

		


		

		
		
 


		

		P.S. I went to http://www.ozarker.org/ and noticed that there is no "Recreation

Re: [Biofuel] FFA Recovery

2006-08-11 Thread Keith Addison

>I kindly ask to Todd Swearingen and/or to Jan Lieuwe Bolding 
>described the process again as I can not find it in my files.
>I thank you in advnce for your kindness
>Very best for us
>Chic

Hi Chic

It's here:
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycsep.html
Separating glycerine/FFAs

Best

Keith


>Jan Lieuwe Bolding wrote:
>
>>Tom,
>>
>>I get an FFA layer and Glycerine layer.
>>
>>
>>Jan Lieuwe Bolding
>>
>>
>>
>>2006/8/7, Thomas Kelly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>
>>Jan,
>>Is one of the layers the mineral precipitate?
>>   Tom
>>
>>- Original Message -
>>From: Jan Lieuwe Bolding
>>To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>>Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 5:50 PM
>>Subject: [Biofuel] FFA Recovery
>>
>>
>>
>>I have tried to seperate the FFA and Glycerine in the way as Todd 
>>Swearingen has described It.
>>
>>I only get two layers instead of three, can anyone explan this?
>>
>>When I want to recycle the FFA in the first step of my Two Stage 
>>Acid Base proces do I have to add extra Methanol?
>>
>>
>>With kind regards,
>>
>>
>>
>>Jan Lieuwe Bolding


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[Biofuel] Online Banking Security Problem

Keyloggers are for
sale on the web. Just google "keylogger" and be amazed. Of course they can be
used
for criminal activities, and
are. Peace, D. Mindock
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/08/060810211259.htm

Source: Cardiff
University
Posted: August 10, 2006

Cardiff Researchers Discover Online Banking
Security Problem
Two researchers working within Cardiff University's School of Computer Science, Professor Antonia J Jones
and Joseph R Rabaiotti, together with a third independent researcher Stuart P
Goring, have today released details of a problem with HSBC's online
banking system. The bank was informed of the issue prior to
publication.
The researchers demonstrated (without in any
way hacking, or even entering, the system) that the problem they observed,
together with the illegal use of a keylogger (a device which
records keystrokes and can later play them back), would in principle allow an
attacker to gather all the necessary information required to enter any customer
account.
HSBC and Cardiff University are now working together to
address a number of issues raised by this research.
No illegal access took place during this research. It is
generally assumed that to be in a position to prove that a gatekeeper system has
a weakness one must have broken the law. However, the researchers were able to
demonstrate that this is not the case. In this case they showed that by
perfectly proper use of the system (a legal log-in which fails due to a typing
error) and by intelligent observation one can logically prove a weakness without
even passing the gatekeeper or entering the system. While they were able to do
this because of a rather trivial problem, an interesting point of principle has
been established and a significant loophole identified.
Professor Jones said: "What is truly amazing about this
particular problem is that it apparently has not been illegally exploited for at
least two years, during which time all user accounts were in principle open to
the access procedure we describe.
"This fact alone raises some serious questions about the
wisdom of having any sensitive system online and about online banking in
general."
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[Biofuel] Fw: White House official: "weeks before September 11th, this is going to play big"





Lest you think the Bush administration would overlook any opportunity to use 
any event for partisan political gain.

Now if only the Democrats would call him and the Republicans on the fact 
that Osama's been forgotten. [Also that 9/11 happened with the Repugs in 
power. The FBI agents in the field, prior to 9/11, reporting highly 
suspicious activity were told, to their dismay, to forget about it 
repeatedly told by superiors.]

MJ

WH Official: "Weeks before September 11th, this is going to play big

Bush seeks political gains from foiled plot
by Olivier KnoxThu Aug 10, 2:53 PM ET

US President George W. Bush seized on a foiled London airline bomb plot to 
hammer unnamed critics he accused of having all but forgotten the September 
11, 2001 terrorist attacks.
Weighed down by the unpopular war in Iraq, Bush and his aides have tried to 
shift the national political debate from that conflict to the broader and 
more popular global war on terrorism ahead of November 7 congressional 
elections.
The London conspiracy is "a stark reminder that this nation is at war with 
Islamic fascists who will use any means to destroy those of us who love 
freedom, to hurt our nation," the president said on a day trip to Wisconsin.
"It is a mistake to believe there is no threat to the United States of 
America," he said. "We've taken a lot of measures to protect the American 
people. But obviously we still aren't completely safe."
His remarks came a day after the White House orchestrated an exceptionally 
aggressive campaign to tar opposition Democrats as weak on terrorism, 
knowing what Democrats didn't: News of the plot could soon break.
Vice President Dick Cheney and White House spokesman Tony Snow had argued 
that Democrats wanted to raise what Snow called "a white flag in the war on 
terror," citing as evidence the defeat of a three-term Democratic senator 
who backed the Iraq war in his effort to win renomination.
But Bush aides on Thursday fought the notion that they had exploited their 
knowledge of the coming British raid to hit Democrats, saying the trigger 
had been the defeat of Democratic Senator Joseph Lieberman of Connecticut by 
an anti-war political novice.
"The comments were purely and simply a reaction" to Democratic voters who 
"removed a pro-defense Senator and sent the message that the party would not 
tolerate candidates with such views," said Snow.
The public relations offensive "was not done in anticipation. It was not 
said with the knowledge that this was coming," the spokesman said.
Snow said Bush first learned in detail about the plot on Friday, and 
received two detailed briefings on it on Saturday and Sunday, as well as had 
two conversations about it with British Prime Minister Tony Blair.
But a senior White House official said that the British government had not 
launched its raid until well after Cheney held a highly unusual conference 
call with reporters to attack the Democrats as weak against terrorism.
An aide to Lieberman, who would have been one of the first Democrats to hear 
of the plot because he is the top Democrat on the Senate Homeland Security 
Committee, said the lawmaker first heard of it late Wednesday.
On Wednesday, Cheney had suggested that Democrats believe "that somehow we 
can retreat behind our oceans and not be actively engaged in this conflict 
and be safe here at home, which clearly we know we won't, we can't, be," he 
said.
While some Democrats have opposed some steps in the war on terrorism, and 
more and more are calling for a withdrawal from Iraq, no major figures in 
the party have called for a wholesale retreat in the broader conflict.
But Bush's Republicans hoped the raid would yield political gains.
"I'd rather be talking about this than all of the other things that Congress 
hasn't done well," one Republican congressional aide told AFP on condition 
of anonymity because of possible reprisals.
"Weeks before September 11th, this is going to play big," said another White 
House official, who also spoke on condition of not being named, adding that 
some Democratic candidates won't "look as appealing" under the 
circumstances.
Copyright © 2006 Agence France Presse . All rights reserved. The information 
contained in the AFP News report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten 
or redistributed without the prior written authority of Agence France 
Presse.

Copyright © 2006 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.  And:

Plot was under investigation for a few months...The American media will most 
likely not say this...fear...fear...fear...gotta keep people afraid!!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/story/0,,-6006659,00.html

Details of the plot only emerged for the first time in the early hours. But 
police later revealed the arrests followed an "unprecedented level of 
surveillance" - stretching back to December last year - involving meetings, 
movements, travel, spending and the "aspirations of a large group of 
people".



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[Biofuel] Synfuel charade fizzles