Re: [Biofuel] New el cheapo VW commuter car

[Hakan Falk]

This is not a new concept and maybe it is time 
for it again. Since I have the years, I do
remember the 1950´s and the three wheel 
Messerschmidth that a friend of mine had and
which I tried a few times. The VW concept is a modern version of it,

It was also an other one in this class, forgot 
the name. like a bubble with the whole front as
door. I drove that one too.

Both of those cars were out competed by the VW 
Beetle, so it is quite a full circle, when
VW now is working on a new concept car like this.

Hakan

At 07:50 AM 5/13/2009, you wrote:
>There are a couple of things that bother me about this.
>
>1. If it's aimed at China it is intended to 
>replace not a full-size American pick-up truck 
>but a bicycle. That is to say, it is intended to 
>increase dependence on motor vehicles in a 
>context that has survived on bicycles and feet 
>for a long time: though my suspicion is that 
>that state of affairs was hitherto maintained 
>through force rather than sound spatial 
>planning. But even then, is it not better to 
>introduce sound spatial planning to suit the 
>bicycles, rather than cars to suit the unsound spatial planning?
>
>2. That level of aerodynamic efficiency etc. 
>rather suggests high-speed movement along roads 
>of very good quality. How suitable is this 
>vehicle for bad roads? How suitable is this 
>vehicle for roads intended primarily for 
>pedestrians, bicycles, hand-carts, animal-drawn 
>carts, etc. because there aren't enough motor 
>vehicles to warrant special high-speed roads? Or 
>must one increase the vehicle fleet in order to 
>justify the roads in order to justify this 
>"paragon of efficiency" vehicle? It's the same 
>problem I have with the Aptera: the whole 
>business of aerodynamics for efficiency is 
>overblown and misplaced. It's making the problem 
>big enough to suit the solution, rather than 
>small enough not to need a solution.
>
>3. Where does the pig go? Where does the bolt of 
>cloth go? Where does M. Boulanger's basket of 
>eggs go, if it was a very large basket he had in 
>mind? This vehicle seems aimed primarily at 
>moving one or two people with briefcases a 
>fairly long distance, regularly, at a fairly 
>high speed, between a place of residence and 
>another place where one does something more or 
>less senseless in order to get money to pay for 
>the vehicle, among other things. Is it desirable 
>to introduce this pattern where it does not 
>exist? Is it desirable to turn almost-peasants 
>into wage-slave commuters, when the system of 
>economy that supports that pattern is the very 
>cause of the problem this vehicle purports to 
>solve? If the almost-peasants were instead to 
>become proper peasants, true yeomen, the problem would virtually go away.
>
>Best regards
>
>Dawie Coetzee
>
>
>
>
>
>
>From: bmolloy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>Sent: Tuesday, 12 May, 2009 3:03:20
>Subject: [Biofuel] New el cheapo VW commuter car
>
>Has anyone heard of the new single seat VW?  This is
>not a toy, not a concept car. It is a fully developed, single-seat car in a
>highly aerodynamic tear-shaped, road-proven and very practical commuter
>vehicle format. The new Veedub will go on sale in Shanghai in 2010.
>
>Designed to cruise at 100-120 Km/Hr it has an incredible consumption of
>0.99litre/100Km (258 miles/gallon), thus in terms of fuel bettering the
>electric car. The vehicle took three years from conception to production.
>The company is headquartered in Hamburg, Germany.
>
>The car will sell for 4000 yuan, equivalent to US$600. Gas tank capacity 1.7
>gallons;Speed 62-74.6 Miles/hour; Fuel efficiency 258 miles/gallon; travel
>distance with a full tank 404 miles.
>
>I have pics which show a very impressive, aerodynamically efficient vehicle,
>not at all cheap in appearance. Sadly can't post them here due to the site's
>formatting restrictions but will supply to anyone who emails me directly.
>
>Regards,
>
>Bob.
>
>
>
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>
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>
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Re: [Biofuel] New el cheapo VW commuter car

[Bill Ellis]

Dawie,
  , well said.


Wildbill
Sutton.VT 

--- On Wed, 5/13/09, Dawie Coetzee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


From: Dawie Coetzee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New el cheapo VW commuter car
To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org
Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2009, 1:50 AM


There are a couple of things that bother me about this.

1. If it's aimed at China it is intended to replace not a full-size American 
pick-up truck but a bicycle. That is to say, it is intended to increase 
dependence on motor vehicles in a context that has survived on bicycles 
and feet for a long time: though my suspicion is that that state of affairs was 
hitherto maintained through force rather than sound spatial planning. But even 
then, is it not better to introduce sound spatial planning to suit the 
bicycles, rather than cars to suit the unsound spatial planning?

2. That level of aerodynamic efficiency etc. rather suggests high-speed 
movement along roads of very good quality. How suitable is this vehicle for bad 
roads? How suitable is this vehicle for roads intended primarily for 
pedestrians, bicycles, hand-carts, animal-drawn carts, etc. because there 
aren't enough motor vehicles to warrant special high-speed roads? Or must one 
increase the vehicle fleet in order to justify the roads in order to justify 
this "paragon of efficiency" vehicle? It's the same problem I have with the 
Aptera: the whole business of aerodynamics for efficiency is overblown and 
misplaced. It's making the problem big enough to suit the solution, rather than 
small enough not to need a solution.

3. Where does the pig go? Where does the bolt of cloth go? Where does M. 
Boulanger's basket of eggs go, if it was a very large basket he had in mind? 
This vehicle seems aimed primarily at moving one or two people with 
briefcases a fairly long distance, regularly, at a fairly high speed, between a 
place of residence and another place where one does something more or less 
senseless in order to get money to pay for the vehicle, among other things. Is 
it desirable to introduce this pattern where it does not exist? Is it desirable 
to turn almost-peasants into wage-slave commuters, when the system of economy 
that supports that pattern is the very cause of the problem this vehicle 
purports to solve? If the almost-peasants were instead to become proper 
peasants, true yeomen, the problem would virtually go away.

Best regards

Dawie Coetzee

 




From: bmolloy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Tuesday, 12 May, 2009 3:03:20
Subject: [Biofuel] New el cheapo VW commuter car

Has anyone heard of the new single seat VW?                      This is
not a toy, not a concept car. It is a fully developed, single-seat car in a
highly aerodynamic tear-shaped, road-proven and very practical commuter
vehicle format. The new Veedub will go on sale in Shanghai in 2010.

Designed to cruise at 100-120 Km/Hr it has an incredible consumption of
0.99litre/100Km (258 miles/gallon), thus in terms of fuel bettering the
electric car. The vehicle took three years from conception to production.
The company is headquartered in Hamburg, Germany.

The car will sell for 4000 yuan, equivalent to US$600. Gas tank capacity 1.7
gallons;Speed 62-74.6 Miles/hour; Fuel efficiency 258 miles/gallon; travel
distance with a full tank 404 miles.

I have pics which show a very impressive, aerodynamically efficient vehicle,
not at all cheap in appearance. Sadly can't post them here due to the site's
formatting restrictions but will supply to anyone who emails me directly.

Regards,

Bob.

  

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Re: [Biofuel] New el cheapo VW commuter car

[Ivan Menchero]

Ok I thought it was clear it is an old design.
If it does not make sense, leave it to the Chinese to do it, they are 
specialist in finding a problem for a solution.
This will make sense if it was a plug car and it would be aim at the 
"smart-mini" market, I think

--
From: "Dawie Coetzee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 1:50 PM
To: 
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New el cheapo VW commuter car

> There are a couple of things that bother me about this.
>
> 1. If it's aimed at China it is intended to replace not a full-size 
> American pick-up truck but a bicycle. That is to say, it is intended to 
> increase dependence on motor vehicles in a context that has survived on 
> bicycles and feet for a long time: though my suspicion is that that state 
> of affairs was hitherto maintained through force rather than sound spatial 
> planning. But even then, is it not better to introduce sound spatial 
> planning to suit the bicycles, rather than cars to suit the unsound 
> spatial planning?
>
> 2. That level of aerodynamic efficiency etc. rather suggests high-speed 
> movement along roads of very good quality. How suitable is this vehicle 
> for bad roads? How suitable is this vehicle for roads intended primarily 
> for pedestrians, bicycles, hand-carts, animal-drawn carts, etc. because 
> there aren't enough motor vehicles to warrant special high-speed roads? Or 
> must one increase the vehicle fleet in order to justify the roads in order 
> to justify this "paragon of efficiency" vehicle? It's the same problem I 
> have with the Aptera: the whole business of aerodynamics for efficiency is 
> overblown and misplaced. It's making the problem big enough to suit the 
> solution, rather than small enough not to need a solution.
>
> 3. Where does the pig go? Where does the bolt of cloth go? Where does M. 
> Boulanger's basket of eggs go, if it was a very large basket he had in 
> mind? This vehicle seems aimed primarily at moving one or two people with 
> briefcases a fairly long distance, regularly, at a fairly high speed, 
> between a place of residence and another place where one does something 
> more or less senseless in order to get money to pay for the vehicle, among 
> other things. Is it desirable to introduce this pattern where it does not 
> exist? Is it desirable to turn almost-peasants into wage-slave commuters, 
> when the system of economy that supports that pattern is the very cause of 
> the problem this vehicle purports to solve? If the almost-peasants were 
> instead to become proper peasants, true yeomen, the problem would 
> virtually go away.
>
> Best regards
>
> Dawie Coetzee
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> From: bmolloy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> Sent: Tuesday, 12 May, 2009 3:03:20
> Subject: [Biofuel] New el cheapo VW commuter car
>
> Has anyone heard of the new single seat VW? This is
> not a toy, not a concept car. It is a fully developed, single-seat car in 
> a
> highly aerodynamic tear-shaped, road-proven and very practical commuter
> vehicle format. The new Veedub will go on sale in Shanghai in 2010.
>
> Designed to cruise at 100-120 Km/Hr it has an incredible consumption of
> 0.99litre/100Km (258 miles/gallon), thus in terms of fuel bettering the
> electric car. The vehicle took three years from conception to production.
> The company is headquartered in Hamburg, Germany.
>
> The car will sell for 4000 yuan, equivalent to US$600. Gas tank capacity 
> 1.7
> gallons;Speed 62-74.6 Miles/hour; Fuel efficiency 258 miles/gallon; travel
> distance with a full tank 404 miles.
>
> I have pics which show a very impressive, aerodynamically efficient 
> vehicle,
> not at all cheap in appearance. Sadly can't post them here due to the 
> site's
> formatting restrictions but will supply to anyone who emails me directly.
>
> Regards,
>
> Bob.
>
>
>
> -- next part --
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>
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> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 
> messages):
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Re: [Biofuel] New el cheapo VW commuter car

[Darryl McMahon]

Hakan,
great to see you posting!

Perhaps the vehicle you are thinking of is the BMW Isetta.  There were a
few other microcars in that period, mostly in Europe, but the
Messerschmidt and Isetta were the most common (based on my memory
anyway).

Darryl

Hakan Falk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> This is not a new concept and maybe it is time 
> for it again. Since I have the years, I do
> remember the 1950´s and the three wheel 
> Messerschmidth that a friend of mine had and
> which I tried a few times. The VW concept is a modern version of it,
> 
> It was also an other one in this class, forgot 
> the name. like a bubble with the whole front as
> door. I drove that one too.
> 
> Both of those cars were out competed by the VW 
> Beetle, so it is quite a full circle, when
> VW now is working on a new concept car like this.
> 
> Hakan
> 
> At 07:50 AM 5/13/2009, you wrote:
> >There are a couple of things that bother me about this.
> >
> >1. If it's aimed at China it is intended to 
> >replace not a full-size American pick-up truck 
> >but a bicycle. That is to say, it is intended to 
> >increase dependence on motor vehicles in a 
> >context that has survived on bicycles and feet 
> >for a long time: though my suspicion is that 
> >that state of affairs was hitherto maintained 
> >through force rather than sound spatial 
> >planning. But even then, is it not better to 
> >introduce sound spatial planning to suit the 
> >bicycles, rather than cars to suit the unsound spatial planning?
> >
> >2. That level of aerodynamic efficiency etc. 
> >rather suggests high-speed movement along roads 
> >of very good quality. How suitable is this 
> >vehicle for bad roads? How suitable is this 
> >vehicle for roads intended primarily for 
> >pedestrians, bicycles, hand-carts, animal-drawn 
> >carts, etc. because there aren't enough motor 
> >vehicles to warrant special high-speed roads? Or 
> >must one increase the vehicle fleet in order to 
> >justify the roads in order to justify this 
> >"paragon of efficiency" vehicle? It's the same 
> >problem I have with the Aptera: the whole 
> >business of aerodynamics for efficiency is 
> >overblown and misplaced. It's making the problem 
> >big enough to suit the solution, rather than 
> >small enough not to need a solution.
> >
> >3. Where does the pig go? Where does the bolt of 
> >cloth go? Where does M. Boulanger's basket of 
> >eggs go, if it was a very large basket he had in 
> >mind? This vehicle seems aimed primarily at 
> >moving one or two people with briefcases a 
> >fairly long distance, regularly, at a fairly 
> >high speed, between a place of residence and 
> >another place where one does something more or 
> >less senseless in order to get money to pay for 
> >the vehicle, among other things. Is it desirable 
> >to introduce this pattern where it does not 
> >exist? Is it desirable to turn almost-peasants 
> >into wage-slave commuters, when the system of 
> >economy that supports that pattern is the very 
> >cause of the problem this vehicle purports to 
> >solve? If the almost-peasants were instead to 
> >become proper peasants, true yeomen, the problem would virtually go
away.
> >
> >Best regards
> >
> >Dawie Coetzee
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >From: bmolloy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> >Sent: Tuesday, 12 May, 2009 3:03:20
> >Subject: [Biofuel] New el cheapo VW commuter car
> >
> >Has anyone heard of the new single seat VW? 
 
--
Darryl McMahon
Water Savers toilet fill diverters aren't sexy, 
but they save water and your money.
http://www.econogics.com/WaterSaver/



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Re: [Biofuel] U.S. Department of Energy Cuts Hydrogen Fuel Cell Funding

[Keith Addison]

Hi Darryl

>(posted with a small sense of vindication)

Only a small sense? Take a bow, you had it dead right, way back then.

All best

Keith


>http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/08/science/earth/08energy.html?_r=2&ref=science
>
>May 8, 2009
>U.S. Drops Research Into Fuel Cells for Cars
>By MATTHEW L. WALD
>
>WASHINGTON - Cars powered by hydrogen fuel cells, once hailed by
>President George W. Bush as a pollution-free solution for reducing the
>nation's dependence on foreign oil, will not be practical over the next
>10 to 20 years, the energy secretary said Thursday, and the government
>will cut off funds for the vehicles' development.
>
>Developing those cells and coming up with a way to transport the
>hydrogen is a big challenge, Energy Secretary Steven Chu said in
>releasing energy-related details of the administration's budget for the
>year beginning Oct. 1. Dr. Chu said the government preferred to focus on
>projects that would bear fruit more quickly.
>
>The retreat from cars powered by fuel cells counters Mr. Bush's
>prediction in 2003 that "the first car driven by a child born today
>could be powered by hydrogen, and pollution-free." The Energy Department
>will continue to pay for research into stationary fuel cells, which Dr.
>Chu said could be used like batteries on the power grid and do not
>require compact storage of hydrogen.
>
>The Obama administration will also establish eight "energy innovation
>hubs," small centers for basic research that Dr. Chu referred to as
>"Bell Lablettes." These will be financed for five years at a time to
>lure more scientists into the energy area.
>
>"We're very devoted to delivering solutions - not just science papers,
>but solutions - but it will require some basic science," Dr. Chu, who
>won a Nobel Prize for his work in physics, said at a news conference.
>
>He said he would probably reverse another Bush administration decision
>and restore funds for FutureGen, a program to build a power plant
>prototype. The plant would turn coal into gas, separate out the carbon
>dioxide - a major contributor to the greenhouse gases that cause global
>warming - and pump it underground. Then it would burn the hydrogen,
>which is nearly pollution-free.
>
>An international partnership had selected a site in Mattoon, Ill., for
>construction of the plant, but the Bush administration decided that the
>costs were too high and that the money should be spread among more projects.
>
>The Obama administration will also drop spending for research on the
>exploration of oil and gas deposits because the industry itself has
>ample resources for that, Dr. Chu said.
>
>While the budget request for the Energy Department is $26.4 billion, an
>increase of less than 1 percent, actual spending will actually be far
>higher because some projects will be financed by the economic stimulus
>package, said Steve Isakowitz, the department's chief financial officer.
>
>While Dr. Chu emphasized the allocations for research, a former Energy
>Department official, Robert Alvarez, pointed out that the budget still
>includes $6.4 billion for nuclear weapons and $4.4 billion for naval
>reactors, nuclear nonproliferation activity and safe storage of surplus
>plutonium. "Weapons still make up the largest single expenditure," he said.
>
>
>
>While I am pleased to see the move away from the hydrogen economy
>mirage, I am disappointed to see the continued interest in FutureGen
>(aka 'clean coal')
>
>(posted with a small sense of vindication)
>
>--
>Darryl McMahon
>
>The Emperor's New Hydrogen Economy (in trade paperback and eBook)
>http://www.econogics.com/TENHE/


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Re: [Biofuel] New el cheapo VW commuter car

[Keith Addison]

Hi Dawie

Quite right.

A little late though, in China's case. The city of Guangzhou (Canton) 
banned bicycles sometime in the 90s, or tried to - nuisance to car 
drivers.

Bikes are on the way out in China.

Electric Bicycles Banned in Guangzhou from Today
2006-11-17
<http://www.newsgd.com/pictures/peoplelife/200611170031.htm>

China ends 'bicycle kingdom' as embracing cars
2004-11-11
<http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-11/11/content_390685.htm>

China: Kingdom of bicycles no more
Jan 15, 2007
<http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/170671>

:-(

Best

Keith


>There are a couple of things that bother me about this.
>
>1. If it's aimed at China it is intended to replace not a full-size 
>American pick-up truck but a bicycle. That is to say, it is intended 
>to increase dependence on motor vehicles in a context that has 
>survived on bicycles and feet for a long time: though my suspicion 
>is that that state of affairs was hitherto maintained through force 
>rather than sound spatial planning. But even then, is it not better 
>to introduce sound spatial planning to suit the bicycles, rather 
>than cars to suit the unsound spatial planning?
>
>2. That level of aerodynamic efficiency etc. rather suggests 
>high-speed movement along roads of very good quality. How suitable 
>is this vehicle for bad roads? How suitable is this vehicle for 
>roads intended primarily for pedestrians, bicycles, hand-carts, 
>animal-drawn carts, etc. because there aren't enough motor vehicles 
>to warrant special high-speed roads? Or must one increase the 
>vehicle fleet in order to justify the roads in order to justify this 
>"paragon of efficiency" vehicle? It's the same problem I have with 
>the Aptera: the whole business of aerodynamics for efficiency is 
>overblown and misplaced. It's making the problem big enough to suit 
>the solution, rather than small enough not to need a solution.
>
>3. Where does the pig go? Where does the bolt of cloth go? Where 
>does M. Boulanger's basket of eggs go, if it was a very large basket 
>he had in mind? This vehicle seems aimed primarily at moving one or 
>two people with briefcases a fairly long distance, regularly, at a 
>fairly high speed, between a place of residence and another place 
>where one does something more or less senseless in order to get 
>money to pay for the vehicle, among other things. Is it desirable to 
>introduce this pattern where it does not exist? Is it desirable to 
>turn almost-peasants into wage-slave commuters, when the system of 
>economy that supports that pattern is the very cause of the problem 
>this vehicle purports to solve? If the almost-peasants were instead 
>to become proper peasants, true yeomen, the problem would virtually 
>go away.
>
>Best regards
>
>Dawie Coetzee
>
>
>
>
>
>
>From: bmolloy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>Sent: Tuesday, 12 May, 2009 3:03:20
>Subject: [Biofuel] New el cheapo VW commuter car
>
>Has anyone heard of the new single seat VW?  This is
>not a toy, not a concept car. It is a fully developed, single-seat car in a
>highly aerodynamic tear-shaped, road-proven and very practical commuter
>vehicle format. The new Veedub will go on sale in Shanghai in 2010.
>
>Designed to cruise at 100-120 Km/Hr it has an incredible consumption of
>0.99litre/100Km (258 miles/gallon), thus in terms of fuel bettering the
>electric car. The vehicle took three years from conception to production.
>The company is headquartered in Hamburg, Germany.
>
>The car will sell for 4000 yuan, equivalent to US$600. Gas tank capacity 1.7
>gallons;Speed 62-74.6 Miles/hour; Fuel efficiency 258 miles/gallon; travel
>distance with a full tank 404 miles.
>
>I have pics which show a very impressive, aerodynamically efficient vehicle,
>not at all cheap in appearance. Sadly can't post them here due to the site's
>formatting restrictions but will supply to anyone who emails me directly.
>
>Regards,
>
>Bob.
>
>
>
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>
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>
>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages):
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>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] New el cheapo VW commuter car

[Keith Addison]

Hi Hakan

>This is not a new concept and maybe it is time
>for it again. Since I have the years, I do
>remember the 1950´s and the three wheel
>Messerschmidth that a friend of mine had and
>which I tried a few times.

Messerschmitt KR200


>The VW concept is a modern version of it,
>
>It was also an other one in this class, forgot
>the name. like a bubble with the whole front as
>door. I drove that one too.

Bubble cars - there were two of them:

Heinkel


BMW Iso Isetta Bubble Car


I was surprised to see a Heinkel bubble car here in Japan a while back.

Best

Keith


>Both of those cars were out competed by the VW
>Beetle, so it is quite a full circle, when
>VW now is working on a new concept car like this.
>
>Hakan
>
>At 07:50 AM 5/13/2009, you wrote:
>>There are a couple of things that bother me about this.
>>
>>1. If it's aimed at China it is intended to
>>replace not a full-size American pick-up truck
>>but a bicycle. That is to say, it is intended to
>>increase dependence on motor vehicles in a
>>context that has survived on bicycles and feet
>>for a long time: though my suspicion is that
>>that state of affairs was hitherto maintained
>>through force rather than sound spatial
>>planning. But even then, is it not better to
>>introduce sound spatial planning to suit the
>>bicycles, rather than cars to suit the unsound spatial planning?
>>
>>2. That level of aerodynamic efficiency etc.
>>rather suggests high-speed movement along roads
>>of very good quality. How suitable is this
>>vehicle for bad roads? How suitable is this
>>vehicle for roads intended primarily for
>>pedestrians, bicycles, hand-carts, animal-drawn
>>carts, etc. because there aren't enough motor
>>vehicles to warrant special high-speed roads? Or
>>must one increase the vehicle fleet in order to
>>justify the roads in order to justify this
>>"paragon of efficiency" vehicle? It's the same
>>problem I have with the Aptera: the whole
>>business of aerodynamics for efficiency is
>>overblown and misplaced. It's making the problem
>>big enough to suit the solution, rather than
>>small enough not to need a solution.
>>
>>3. Where does the pig go? Where does the bolt of
>>cloth go? Where does M. Boulanger's basket of
>>eggs go, if it was a very large basket he had in
>>mind? This vehicle seems aimed primarily at
>>moving one or two people with briefcases a
>>fairly long distance, regularly, at a fairly
>>high speed, between a place of residence and
>>another place where one does something more or
>>less senseless in order to get money to pay for
>>the vehicle, among other things. Is it desirable
>>to introduce this pattern where it does not
>>exist? Is it desirable to turn almost-peasants
>>into wage-slave commuters, when the system of
>>economy that supports that pattern is the very
>>cause of the problem this vehicle purports to
>>solve? If the almost-peasants were instead to
>>become proper peasants, true yeomen, the problem would virtually go away.
>>
>>Best regards
>>
>>Dawie Coetzee
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>From: bmolloy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>>Sent: Tuesday, 12 May, 2009 3:03:20
>>Subject: [Biofuel] New el cheapo VW commuter car
>>
>>Has anyone heard of the new single seat VW?  This is
>>not a toy, not a concept car. It is a fully developed, single-seat car in a
>>highly aerodynamic tear-shaped, road-proven and very practical commuter
>>vehicle format. The new Veedub will go on sale in Shanghai in 2010.
>>
>>Designed to cruise at 100-120 Km/Hr it has an incredible consumption of
>>0.99litre/100Km (258 miles/gallon), thus in terms of fuel bettering the
>>electric car. The vehicle took three years from conception to production.
>>The company is headquartered in Hamburg, Germany.
>>
>>The car will sell for 4000 yuan, equivalent to US$600. Gas tank capacity 1.7
>  >gallons;Speed 62-74.6 Miles/hour; Fuel efficiency 258 miles/gallon; travel
>>distance with a full tank 404 miles.
>>
>>I have pics which show a very impressive, aerodynamically efficient vehicle,
>>not at all cheap in appearance. Sadly can't post them here due to the site's
>>formatting restrictions but will supply to anyone who emails me directly.
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>  >Bob.
>  >
>Hakan Falk
>http://energysavingnow.com/
>http://linkslujo.com/ and http://lujo.com/
>Tel. Spain +34 972 32 05 89
>Tel. Sweden +46 (0)40 692 82 10  (skype)
>Skype user hakanfalk
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: [Biofuel] New el cheapo VW commuter car

[Zeke Yewdall]

On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 7:03 PM, bmolloy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
>   it has an incredible consumption of
> 0.99litre/100Km (258 miles/gallon), thus in terms of fuel bettering the
> electric car.


How does that better an electric car?  An electric car can refuel directly
from your on-site solar/wind/etc.   A diesel engine could refuel from
on-site oil production, if it's capable of running biodiesel.  But, if you
have to go to the station to get processed petroleum fuel. that's a
completely different paradigm than having your fuel grow or be collected on
site.

Like for a bicycle :)
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Re: [Biofuel] New el cheapo VW commuter car

[Jim Worthy]

l commuter
> vehicle format. The new Veedub will go on sale in Shanghai in 2010.
>
> Designed to cruise at 100-120 Km/Hr it has an incredible consumption of
> 0.99litre/100Km (258 miles/gallon), thus in terms of fuel bettering the
> electric car. The vehicle took three years from conception to production.
> The company is headquartered in Hamburg, Germany.
>
> The car will sell for 4000 yuan, equivalent to US$600. Gas tank capacity
> 1.7
> gallons;Speed 62-74.6 Miles/hour; Fuel efficiency 258 miles/gallon; travel
> distance with a full tank 404 miles.
>
> I have pics which show a very impressive, aerodynamically efficient
> vehicle,
> not at all cheap in appearance. Sadly can't post them here due to the
> site's
> formatting restrictions but will supply to anyone who emails me directly.
>
> Regards,
>
> Bob.
>
>
>
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>
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Re: [Biofuel] U.S. Department of Energy Cuts Hydrogen Fuel Cell Funding

[Darryl McMahon]

Only a  small sense because recognizing the error of the hydrogen
economy was the easy part (assuming that my work helped in that
realization, and I have some reason to believe it was a factor).  

I'll feel more vindicated when I see actions behind the words regarding
the sustainable solutions we need instead of the hydrogen mirage.  After
all, that was the real point of the book - solutions.  I'm not done yet
on that score, though electric vehicles and freshwater issues are taking
up more of my time in the past year.

Thank you for the recognition, it's always appreciated.

Darryl

Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi Darryl
> 
> >(posted with a small sense of vindication)
> 
> Only a small sense? Take a bow, you had it dead right, way back then.
> 
> All best
> 
> Keith
> 
> 
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/08/science/earth/08energy.html?_r=2&ref=science
> >
> >May 8, 2009
> >U.S. Drops Research Into Fuel Cells for Cars
> >By MATTHEW L. WALD
> >
> >WASHINGTON - Cars powered by hydrogen fuel cells, once hailed by
> >President George W. Bush as a pollution-free solution for reducing
the
> >nation's dependence on foreign oil, will not be practical over the
next
> >10 to 20 years, the energy secretary said Thursday, and the
government
> >will cut off funds for the vehicles' development.
> >
> >Developing those cells and coming up with a way to transport the
> >hydrogen is a big challenge, Energy Secretary Steven Chu said in
> >releasing energy-related details of the administration's budget for
the
> >year beginning Oct. 1. Dr. Chu said the government preferred to focus
on
> >projects that would bear fruit more quickly.
> >
> >The retreat from cars powered by fuel cells counters Mr. Bush's
> >prediction in 2003 that "the first car driven by a child born today
> >could be powered by hydrogen, and pollution-free." The Energy
Department
> >will continue to pay for research into stationary fuel cells, which
Dr.
> >Chu said could be used like batteries on the power grid and do not
> >require compact storage of hydrogen.
> >
> >The Obama administration will also establish eight "energy innovation
> >hubs," small centers for basic research that Dr. Chu referred to as
> >"Bell Lablettes." These will be financed for five years at a time to
> >lure more scientists into the energy area.
> >
> >"We're very devoted to delivering solutions - not just science
papers,
> >but solutions - but it will require some basic science," Dr. Chu, who
> >won a Nobel Prize for his work in physics, said at a news conference.
> >
> >He said he would probably reverse another Bush administration
decision
> >and restore funds for FutureGen, a program to build a power plant
> >prototype. The plant would turn coal into gas, separate out the
carbon
> >dioxide - a major contributor to the greenhouse gases that cause
global
> >warming - and pump it underground. Then it would burn the hydrogen,
> >which is nearly pollution-free.
> >
> >An international partnership had selected a site in Mattoon, Ill.,
for
> >construction of the plant, but the Bush administration decided that
the
> >costs were too high and that the money should be spread among more
projects.
> >
> >The Obama administration will also drop spending for research on the
> >exploration of oil and gas deposits because the industry itself has
> >ample resources for that, Dr. Chu said.
> >
> >While the budget request for the Energy Department is $26.4 billion,
an
> >increase of less than 1 percent, actual spending will actually be far
> >higher because some projects will be financed by the economic
stimulus
> >package, said Steve Isakowitz, the department's chief financial
officer.
> >
> >While Dr. Chu emphasized the allocations for research, a former
Energy
> >Department official, Robert Alvarez, pointed out that the budget
still
> >includes $6.4 billion for nuclear weapons and $4.4 billion for naval
> >reactors, nuclear nonproliferation activity and safe storage of
surplus
> >plutonium. "Weapons still make up the largest single expenditure," he
said.
> >
> >
> >
> >While I am pleased to see the move away from the hydrogen economy
> >mirage, I am disappointed to see the continued interest in FutureGen
> >(aka 'clean coal')
> >
> >(posted with a small sense of vindication)
> >
> >--
> >Darryl McMahon
> >
> >The Emperor's New Hydrogen Economy (in trade paperback and eBook)
> >http://www.econogics.com/TENHE/
> 




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[Biofuel] Power Consumption of Lighting Timers

[Ken Dunn]

Hi all,

I hope the cross-post is OK.  I'm looking at adding a photo-sensitive
lighting timer for my lamp post light.  However, I'm having a hard
time finding the energy consumption of the timer itself.  Our lamp
post light is already on a photo sensor and we use a CFL bulb.
Ideally, the timer will only consume energy while the light is on and
it should consume a watt or less in order to make it practical and
beneficial.  I can't seem to find that information, though.  Any help
you might be able to provide would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Ken

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Re: [Biofuel] Power Consumption of Lighting Timers

[Fritz]

Ken Dunn wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I hope the cross-post is OK.  I'm looking at adding a photo-sensitive
> lighting timer for my lamp post light.  However, I'm having a hard
> time finding the energy consumption of the timer itself.  Our lamp
> post light is already on a photo sensor and we use a CFL bulb.
> Ideally, the timer will only consume energy while the light is on and
> it should consume a watt or less in order to make it practical and
> beneficial.  I can't seem to find that information, though.  Any help
> you might be able to provide would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Ken
>
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>
>   
Hi Ken,
i think this is very neglegible it my be a fraction of a watt all depens 
the model
Fritz

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Re: [Biofuel] New el cheapo VW commuter car

[Bruno M.]

Bob, nice article but it is at least half an hoax,

it is not "newly developed" but it is an old concept car of the past, from 2001 
or 2002;

And if they gonna make a small production serie of it; the price is also 
incorrect / made up. 
you can not even buy a carbon fiber bicycle for 600 bucks, so this Carbon fiber 
car will cost much more.

But the fuel economy shows what big car makers ( here Volkswagen ) can do if 
they want to.

This is one of the sources that spread this hoax:
  
http://www.caradvice.com.au/25172/volkswagen-introduces-worlds-most-economical-car/
 

This reveals the date of first appearance:
http://www.volkswagenag.com/vwag/vwcorp/content/en/innovation/research_vehicles/1_litre_car.html

A demo testdrive on the public freeway, in front of journalists 
done by the big chief of VW in Germany himself, Dr. Ferdinand Piëch, 
showed an even better real live fuel economy, 0.89Liters/100 KM ( 264 MPG ).

And a 1 L/100km  235 MPG 2 seater concept car also from VW, shown in 2007:
http://www.motorauthority.com/vw-boss-confirms-1-liter-car-for-2010.html

VW has already made a 4seater 3L/100km ( 78MPG) car, the LUPO 3L,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Lupo
with a 3 cyl 1200cc (73 cu. in.) diesel engine; it did that 3L/100Km in reality 
too, i ones took a ride in one.
Woman liked it much for driving in and around the city.
I tell you more, this road legal production car is already history, aka back 
out of production. ( 1998 till 2005 )
it was a bit to expensive because made out of aluminum, so sales numbers stayed 
to low,
and VW is not Chrysler, so they stopped the production and made other more 
wanted and good cars.  ;-)

Grts
Bruno M.

At 00:04 14/05/2009,  Jim Worthy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>There are several thoughts that occur to me relative to Dawie's comments.
>
>You note "If it's aimed at China..." and " Is it desirable to introduce this
>pattern where it does not exist?" In the main, I agree with your criticism
>within the constraints of your argument. But what if your assumptions about
>VW's intended market are incorrect? As one of those millions of "wage slave
>commuters" who live and work in a 'developed' country (the US), I am looking
>for viable ways of transitioning to a more sustainable life style. I would
>welcome a more efficient and effective commuter vehicle that represents a
>real incremental improvement in that direction.
>
>Granted that is not nearly as good as generating a livelihood in a
>self-sufficient environment with a zero-carbon foot print, but I have
>trouble seeing how I can achieve that next week or next year. Maybe that is
>due to deficiencies on my part but to me it is currently a constraint on my
>set of viable improvement options. I suspect that is true of many of my
>fellow wage slaves.
>
>In the mean time, whilst I struggle to a more enlightened state of
>existence, I do appreciate the prospect of marginal improvements in the
>configuration of my lifestyle. Is this wrong? Contemptible?
>
>Perhaps VW's intent is purely commercial and they recognize an emerging
>market of people like myself who see such a vehicle as providing that
>marginal increment of improvement. I should also add that the safety
>concerns expressed by other posters are significant issues that would
>influence any hypothetical 'buy' decision on my part and perhaps preclude
>it.
>
>My basic perception is that 'solutions' inevitability are based on a set of
>assumptions that are seldom universally applicable. I also think that
>solutions are not single events, e.g. buy a fuel efficient/low carbon
>footprint car, but instead are correlated to a more balanced way of
>understanding oneself and our relation to the world and making consistently
>better choices as we make our way through.
>
>Jim Worthy
>---
>On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 11:50 PM, Dawie Coetzee
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
>
>> There are a couple of things that bother me about this.
>>
>> 1. If it's aimed at China it is intended to replace not a full-size
>> American pick-up truck but a bicycle. That is to say, it is intended to
>> increase dependence on motor vehicles in a context that has survived on
>> bicycles and feet for a long time: though my suspicion is that that state of
>> affairs was hitherto maintained through force rather than sound spatial
>> planning. But even then, is it not better to introduce sound spatial
>> planning to suit the bicycles, rather than cars to suit the unsound spatial
>> planning?
>>
>> 2. That level of aerodynamic efficiency etc. rather suggests high-speed
>> movement along roads of very good quality. How suitable is this vehicle for
>> bad roads? How suitable is this vehicle for roads intended primarily for
>> pedestrians, bicycles, hand-carts, animal-drawn carts, etc. because there
>> aren't enough motor vehicles to warrant special high-speed roads? Or must
>> one increase t

[Biofuel] GETTING THE BODY TO MANUFACTURE NEUROTRANSMITTERS-depression, anxiety, sleep di,

[SurpriseShan2]

ch) can go a long way.  Niacin does not  make 
serotonin, but may spare it by way of a parallel biochemical mechanism. The  
amount of niacin needed to help relax you for sleep (50 to a few hundred mg) 
is  substantially less than the dose routinely given by cardiologists to 
lower serum  cholesterol levels (several thousand mg/day). 
 
Body saturation of niacin is indicated by a warmness of the  skin and 
blushing or "flushing" sensation. At this point, most persons will also  
experience a feeling of relaxation and ease. Unlike pharmaceutical  
tranquilizers, 
niacin simply feeds the body what it needs to internally and  naturally 
provide relief. 
 
Niacin (or L-tryptophan) has also been  effective in treating 
obsessive-compulsive neurosis (Let*s Live, September 1979)  and even 
schizophrenia. Drs. 
David Hawkins and Linus Pauling have written a  670-page textbook on the 
subject entitled Orthomolecular Psychiatry (1973). This  is a comprehensive 
work and well worth your investigation. 
 
For more information about niacin therapy for mental illness,  please do a 
search for **Hoffer** using the **search** box on the home page. 
 
REFERENCES: 
 
Cheraskin, E., Ringsdorf, W. M. and  Brecher, A.   Psychodietetics  Bantam 
Books, 1974 
 
Galenberg, A. "Tyrosine for the Treatment of Depression,"  American Journal 
of Psychiatry, 147:622, May, 1980 
 
Growden, A. "Neurotransmitter Precursors in the Diet," in  Nutrition and 
the Brain, Wurtman and Wurtman, Eds., 117-181, Raven Press, 1979 
 
Hawkins, D. and Pauling, L. Orthomolecular Psychiatry:  Treatment of 
Schizophrenia  W. H. Freeman, 1973 
 
Hoffer, A. and Walker, M. Orthomolecular Nutrition, Keats,  1978 
 
Huemer, R P. "Brain Food: Neurotransmitters Make You Think,"  Let's Live, 
December, 1981 
 
Lilliston, L. Megavitamins, Fawcett Publications, 1975 
 
Nutrition News, Vol 2, No. 9, 1979 
 
Passwater, R. Supernutrition, Pocket Books, 1975 
 
Pauling, L.  How To Live Longer and Feel Better, W. H.  Freeman, 1986 
 
"Choline and Lecithin for a Better Memory," Today's Living,  February, 1982
 
 (http://www.papercut.biz/emailStripper.htm)  
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Re: [Biofuel] Power Consumption of Lighting Timers

[Darryl McMahon]

It is hard to find this information, and the power consumption varies 
widely across manufacturers and models.  I have done some testing on 
appliance timers, and using a Kill-A-Watt power meter I have found the 
power consumption varies from under a watt continuous to more than 5 
watts.  One of the best is a Noma model I use for grow lights (less than 
a watt), while one of the worst was also a Noma model (rated for outdoor 
use and switching up to 1500 watts).

I had no success looking through vendor specifications, or writing to 
the manufacturers.

Given the function of the device (timer), I don't think you will be able 
to find one that consumes power only when the controlled device is on.

If you have an appliance power monitor, you could build a testing rig. 
Assuming that you are starting from a standard medium Edison base for 
the light bulb, and want to put the timer between it and the bulb, there 
are simplex outlet receptacles that screw into the light socket (to plug 
in the power monitor) and 2-prong plug to socket adaptors (to act as the 
controlled device).  Just insert the timer where appropriate downstream 
from the monitor to get the desired data.  If you don't like the power 
consumption, take it back to the retailer.

If you collect such data, please post it for reference.

Darryl

Ken Dunn wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I hope the cross-post is OK.  I'm looking at adding a photo-sensitive
> lighting timer for my lamp post light.  However, I'm having a hard
> time finding the energy consumption of the timer itself.  Our lamp
> post light is already on a photo sensor and we use a CFL bulb.
> Ideally, the timer will only consume energy while the light is on and
> it should consume a watt or less in order to make it practical and
> beneficial.  I can't seem to find that information, though.  Any help
> you might be able to provide would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> Ken
> 


-- 
Darryl McMahon

The Emperor's New Hydrogen Economy (in trade paperback and eBook)
http://www.econogics.com/TENHE/

Latest review of The Emperor's New Hydrogen Economy in Greenlife Magazine
http://www.econogics.com/TENHE/tenheGLspring2009.htm

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[Biofuel] Toxic L-tryptophan: Shedding Light on a Mysterious Epidemic

[SurpriseShan2]

/5ProblemswithIdentificationTesting/index.cfm)
 
 **I must emphasize that the presence of the contaminants 
in the [Showa Denko]  L-tryptophan is astonishingly small and so you require 
very sophisticated  instrumentation and a lot of hard work to even come 
close to determining the  structures.**—
Stephen Naylor, Mayo Clinic1  

Government Agencies  Disagree on Cause of EMS 
_http://www.seedsofdeception.com/Public/L-tryptophan/6GovtAgenciesDisagreeonEMSCause/index.cfm_
 
(http://www.seedsofdeception.com/Public/L-tryptophan/6GovtAgenciesDisagreeonEMSCause/i
ndex.cfm)  The FDA*s 
finding that control L-tryptophan itself was a contributing factor to  the 
syndrome is surprising, because it is inconsistent with the epidemiological  
evidence linking production lots of implicated L-TRP to cases of EMS. Earlier  
studies by leading researchers, including those at the Center for Disease  
Control (CDC), clearly suggested that L-tryptophan itself was not responsible  
for EMS and that the disease was caused by contaminant(s) in a single  
manufacturer’s L-TRP.1-3  

Unanswered Letters to  Government  Officials 
_http://www.seedsofdeception.com/Public/L-tryptophan/7UnansweredLetterstoGovtOf
ficials/index.cfm_ 
(http://www.seedsofdeception.com/Public/L-tryptophan/7UnansweredLetterstoGovtOfficials/index.cfm)

   This section includes three letters sent to 
government regulatory authorities  and researchers concerning: 
(1) key information and/or data that appears to  have been concealed from 
the public regarding L-tryptophan and the EMS epidemic,  and 
(2) discrepancies in the interpretation of research data and in the  
procurement of samples of Showa Denko's (SDK) genetically engineered strains of 
 
bacteria. After several months, and now years, no one from either the 
National  Centers for Disease Control or the Food and Drug Administration has 
answered  several key, material questions.  

Conclusion: Who’s  Responsible?
_http://www.seedsofdeception.com/Public/L-tryptophan/8ConclusionWhosResponsib
le/index.cfm_ 
(http://www.seedsofdeception.com/Public/L-tryptophan/8ConclusionWhosResponsible/index.cfm)

  What created the biologically potent trace 
contaminants in Showa Denko  L-tryptophan that inflicted a seriously 
debilitating 
disease at such low dosages  of a food supplement?  
Researchers still do not know.  Some, like Gleich and Maryanski, have 
stated that genetic engineering can’t be  ruled out as a causal factor, though 
they favor other scenarios, usually the  manufacturer’s inadequate 
purification system.  

Acknowledgments 
 
_http://www.seedsofdeception.com/Public/L-tryptophan/Acknowledgments/index.cfm_ 
(http://www.seedsofdeception.com/Public/L-tryptophan/Acknowledgments/index.cfm) 
  
Addendum: Comments by  Scientists and Other  Professionals  

_http://www.seedsofdeception.com/Public/L-tryptophan/CommentsbyScientistsandOthers/index.cfm_
 
(http://www.seedsofdeception.com/Public/L-tryptophan/CommentsbyScientistsandOthers/index.cfm)
  
 (http://www.papercut.biz/emailStripper.htm) 





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Re: [Biofuel] New el cheapo VW commuter car

[Dawie Coetzee]

or roads intended primarily for
> pedestrians, bicycles, hand-carts, animal-drawn carts, etc. because there
> aren't enough motor vehicles to warrant special high-speed roads? Or must
> one increase the vehicle fleet in order to justify the roads in order to
> justify this "paragon of efficiency" vehicle? It's the same problem I have
> with the Aptera: the whole business of aerodynamics for efficiency is
> overblown and misplaced. It's making the problem big enough to suit the
> solution, rather than small enough not to need a solution.
>
> 3. Where does the pig go? Where does the bolt of cloth go? Where does M.
> Boulanger's basket of eggs go, if it was a very large basket he had in mind?
> This vehicle seems aimed primarily at moving one or two people with
> briefcases a fairly long distance, regularly, at a fairly high speed,
> between a place of residence and another place where one does something more
> or less senseless in order to get money to pay for the vehicle, among other
> things. Is it desirable to introduce this pattern where it does not exist?
> Is it desirable to turn almost-peasants into wage-slave commuters, when the
> system of economy that supports that pattern is the very cause of the
> problem this vehicle purports to solve? If the almost-peasants were instead
> to become proper peasants, true yeomen, the problem would virtually go away.
>
> Best regards
>
> Dawie Coetzee
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> From: bmolloy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> Sent: Tuesday, 12 May, 2009 3:03:20
> Subject: [Biofuel] New el cheapo VW commuter car
>
> Has anyone heard of the new single seat VW?                      This is
> not a toy, not a concept car. It is a fully developed, single-seat car in a
> highly aerodynamic tear-shaped, road-proven and very practical commuter
> vehicle format. The new Veedub will go on sale in Shanghai in 2010.
>
> Designed to cruise at 100-120 Km/Hr it has an incredible consumption of
> 0.99litre/100Km (258 miles/gallon), thus in terms of fuel bettering the
> electric car. The vehicle took three years from conception to production.
> The company is headquartered in Hamburg, Germany.
>
> The car will sell for 4000 yuan, equivalent to US$600. Gas tank capacity
> 1.7
> gallons;Speed 62-74.6 Miles/hour; Fuel efficiency 258 miles/gallon; travel
> distance with a full tank 404 miles.
>
> I have pics which show a very impressive, aerodynamically efficient
> vehicle,
> not at all cheap in appearance. Sadly can't post them here due to the
> site's
> formatting restrictions but will supply to anyone who emails me directly.
>
> Regards,
>
> Bob.
>
>
>
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> messages):
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>



-- 
Regards, Jim
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