Re: [Biofuel] okay, question that is almost topic-relevant. Safe vegetable oils?

[Chris Burck]

chip, i can't offer an expert opinion, but i'm happy to offer my
perspective.  even with the heat and pressure that will occur when
making a cut, i really have serious doubts that such conditions are
extreme or prolonged enough to alter the oil either (a) much (if at
all) beyond what has already been done to it by the manufacturer (it
may be canola-based, but it's been altered to withstand higher heat
and pressure), or (b) to the point that it would be comparably nasty
to dino-based oils.  you also have to bear in mind that the quantities
of oil in question are very small, smaller still when you consider
that some of it is clinging to the board and not the sawdust (not to
diminish the issue, by any means).  so to me the issue is more a
question of determining why the oil merits being labelled
'environmental' to begin with.  is it because it (or what gets left
behind after a cut) is substantially less toxic than dino oil (my
inclination would be to suspect so), or simply because of the raw
materials from which it is made?  the only way to satisfactorily
answer these questions is by getting data. :)

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Re: [Biofuel] okay, question that is almost topic-relevant. Safe vegetable oils?

[Fritz]

Chip Mefford wrote:
> In short,
> I have a small chainsaw powered sawmill.
>
> Now, I'll not try to defend the chainsaw as environmentally sensitive,
> nor sustainable. I'll leave that be for now.
>
> But the bit that I'm stuck on right now, is that running this sawmill
> generates a lot of sawdust. Some folks will argue that chainsaw mills
> suck because of the kerf, and bandmills are better due to the smaller
> kerf. Again, I don't want to argue. On wide planks, my chainsaw mill
> gives me really flat and accurate cuts. Bandmills wander a bit. So
> -to me- it's a question of do I want to leave the sawdust at the
> milling site, or at the planer later. Machs nix.
>
> But with the thought of composting all that really nice and very
> fine sawdust, it occurs to me that the bar-oil content is an issue.
>
> So, no big deal I think, I'll just use this fancy environmentally
> friendly vegetable oil based bar oil. But being the person I am, I
> decided to critique this concept. Seems that all commercial
> 'environmental' bar oils are canola based. And even though one isn't
> supposed to, it's possible to get that bar and chain pretty hot.
> 'cooked' canola oil doesn't seem like the stuff with which I want to
> amend my food garden soil.
>
> So I start looking at other vegetable oils, since these products
> are used in forestry all over the world where forestry is a more
> careful practice than here in the US, and I see that all over
> europe and parts of africa, vegetable based bar oils are the standard.
>
> But is this stuff really superior in an environmental sense than
> ole dinosaur bones? Esp when it's been heated/cooked?
>
> What is a good vegetable oil lubricant that isn't a GMO product?
>
> Any and all clues deeply appreciated. .
>
>   
Hello Chip,
despite you dont wont to deal with this rigt now,
your Chainsawmill is far from sustainable or economical!
The kerf on a chainsaw is at least 10mm to 12mm in compare to a 
Bandsawmill 3mm!
Your claim bandsawmills wander a bit... only if your blade is dull or 
badly maintained!
I cut on my Bandsawmill up to 4000pmp a day,average 2000pmp depends how 
the wood is!
You can not possybly mach that nearly with a Chainsawcut!
But than thats what you got and you may as well use  it!
My boards are cut 1''  on center,  i plane  them down to 3/4  and have 
therefore very little  sawdust  or  shavings,my shavings are  pressed to 
Briquettes so  i have allmost no  loss!
Fritz

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[Biofuel] okay, question that is almost topic-relevant. Safe vegetable oils?

[Chip Mefford]

In short,
I have a small chainsaw powered sawmill.

Now, I'll not try to defend the chainsaw as environmentally sensitive,
nor sustainable. I'll leave that be for now.

But the bit that I'm stuck on right now, is that running this sawmill
generates a lot of sawdust. Some folks will argue that chainsaw mills
suck because of the kerf, and bandmills are better due to the smaller
kerf. Again, I don't want to argue. On wide planks, my chainsaw mill
gives me really flat and accurate cuts. Bandmills wander a bit. So
-to me- it's a question of do I want to leave the sawdust at the
milling site, or at the planer later. Machs nix.

But with the thought of composting all that really nice and very
fine sawdust, it occurs to me that the bar-oil content is an issue.

So, no big deal I think, I'll just use this fancy environmentally
friendly vegetable oil based bar oil. But being the person I am, I
decided to critique this concept. Seems that all commercial
'environmental' bar oils are canola based. And even though one isn't
supposed to, it's possible to get that bar and chain pretty hot.
'cooked' canola oil doesn't seem like the stuff with which I want to
amend my food garden soil.

So I start looking at other vegetable oils, since these products
are used in forestry all over the world where forestry is a more
careful practice than here in the US, and I see that all over
europe and parts of africa, vegetable based bar oils are the standard.

But is this stuff really superior in an environmental sense than
ole dinosaur bones? Esp when it's been heated/cooked?

What is a good vegetable oil lubricant that isn't a GMO product?

Any and all clues deeply appreciated. .

-- 
---
Chip Mefford

Before Enlightenment;
  chop wood
  carry water
After Enlightenment;
  chop wood
  carry water
-
Public Key
http://www.well.com/user/cpm

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Re: [Biofuel] Hillary's agenda in India

[Keith Addison]

Hi Chandan, thanks.

>http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-4796140,prtpage-1.cms

"... the need to address the 'root' of the problem of world hunger: 
crop productivity", ho-hum. "It is imperative that we invest in 
science that increases crop yield."

Never mind if it kills a few million more poor people eh? Maybe she 
ain't thick but she sure is thick-skinned. I guess that's what it 
takes.

Iran's Invisible Nicaragua Embassy: "The Iranians are building a huge 
embassy in Managua," Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton warned 
in May. "And you can only imagine what that's for." But here in 
Nicaragua, no one can find any super-embassy.


Um, nice portrait Hillary. 


Methinks the press doesn't like her.

All best

Keith


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Re: [Biofuel] Climate Change 'Will Cause Civilisation to Collapse'

[Keith Addison]

>Right.  "Healthier meat" without the need to grow animals - what a
>crock of baloney.

:-)

I suppose it's swayed by the report that said livestock farming emits 
more GG emissions than traffic, or whatever. I'll accept that CAFOs 
do, and worse than that, but livestock raised on pasture don't, or 
not when it's done properly. See:
Ley Farming


But you're unlikely to see beyond CAFOs and technofixes if you accept 
economic growth as a given, as these folks do. "Sustainable growth", 
it says, I wonder what might that be.

They don't seem to have thought beyond the tailpipe yet either, 
despite the alk of "clean energy" and "greener technologies" and so 
on. "Replace gasoline cars with electric cars" - with the electric 
power coming from where?

"Although the future has been looking better for most of the world 
over the past 20 years"... Not unless you're looking from Wall 
Street. Eg:


CEPR - The Scorecard on Globalization 1980-2000: 20 Years of 
Diminished Progress
July 2001, Mark Weisbrot, Dean Baker, Egor Kraev, and Judy Chen
"This report looks at economic and social indicators for all 
countries for which data are available and compares the period of 
1980-2000 with the previous 20 years. Indicators include: the growth 
of income per person, life expectancy, mortality, literacy, and 
education. It finds a very clear decline in progress as compared with 
the period 1960-1980." Download report:


The rich got richer and everybody else got poorer, what a surprise.

No doubt this crummy study will be influential, but there's no time 
left for this sort of crap.

>no pun intended

>==> From: Chris Burck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>==> Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 17:18:23  
>
>sounds like an endorsement for the massive implementation of gmo and
>synthetic technologies.

They just don't stop trying do they.

Best

Keith


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