[biofuel] Re: Democracy
ies, until the state of war kicked in some >exception rules and prevented new elections of the leaders and the >representatives. > >Both in Germany and Italy, the leaders that was heavily supported by the >financial corporations and interests came to power. Money, industrial and >financial, put the leaders in place trough elections in democracies. >Playing on racial and interest differences was attractive to the people. > >The joys of free speech might have some limitations. "Either you are >with us or against us", is a typical expression of suppression of opinions. > >Why do not George Bush invest in a rapid implementation of "ready for >use" technologies like biofuels? This could actually do something about >the current situation. At the moment hydrogen looks more like a safe >diversion to nowhere, if you do not have unlimited resources of platinum. >Better things might turn up with more research. After 80 years in >development, we could be close to make renewable hydrogen a viable >alternative. > >Nazi Germany did have an extensive and successful program for >alternative energy sources and a lot of it was moved to US after the war. >Could not see any continuation, even according to your definitions they >both were democracies. The German missile and rocket program did >however get a lot of attention and became the foundation of today's >space programs. > >I can continue, but it is a topic were I might be accused of being a >Nazi or Fascist supporter, which I am absolutely not. The only point >I want to do is that the childish opinion of that everything is either >black or white, does not belong in the reality of life. Because I am >in staunch opposition to opinions of nationalist, racial and supremacy >character, I am also very worried by the current trends in the US. > >Hakan > > >At 10:58 AM 1/29/2003 -0500, you wrote: > >>Hakan, >> >>If it is a government of the people, by the people, for the people, then >>it is a democracy. A society in which the people do not have the option >>to change their government if they don't like it is not a democracy. What >>democracies are there in the Middle East? I would count Israel and Turkey, >>but the others are for the most part desert satrapies. >> >>You are entitled to your opinion, and I am entitled to disagree with >>you. Ah, the joys of free speech! ;-) >> >>By the way, what did you think of George Bush's proposal yesterday to >>invest $1.2 billion towards research in developing a hydrogen powered >>car? That would not be biofuel, but it would be renewable and not make >>our societies dependent on corrupt dictatorships. I would like to see >>us develop nuclear fusion power, such as our sun runs on. It has run for >>billions of years on the nuclear fusion of hydrogen into helium. In that >>case, energy would become unbelievably cheap, and we could forget about >>this scarcity mentality that requires us to conserve energy. It is like >>conserving air! Free energy occurs in abundance in nature, and we need >>to learn to harness it, or imitate it. >> >>One question of economic significance would be how to generate hydrogen >>cheaply. >> >>Damian >> >>On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Hakan Falk wrote: >> >> >Dear Damian, >> > >> >Another skewed view about dictatorships and democracy. Many of what we >> >historically consider as the the worst examples of dictators, was duly >> >elected by the people in a democratic system. On state or country level, >> >some countries try to apply very global dictatorship towards the world >> >community. That is the true dictatorship, not elected in any democratic way >> >and maintained by military power. I would be very careful in waving the >> >democracy and social justice flag if I was from US, especially at the >> >current times. Nor does US have a very clean history to be proud of. >> > >> >It is naive to believe in any absolute justice, even if it is a noble goal >> >and a dream worth while pursuing. To belive that US have achieved some sort >> >of near perfect status, is very wrong and extremely dangerous. I would not >> >place them very high on the list of good democracies (within top 30), but >> >this is a very personal opinion, as most of this about democracy. >> > >> >Hakan >> > >> >At 12:13 PM 1/28/2003 -0500, you wrote: >> > >> >>There is virtue in not being dependant on Middle Eastern oil, mostly >> >>because it is foolish to tie our national economy, and hence its security, >> >>to a region of t
RE: [biofuel] 1% diesel
How is diesel for the environment? My impression is that diesel powered vehicles emit a noxious stench which is not present with gasoline powered vehicles. And in Maryland where I live, we have strict rules about vehicle emissions so that if the car emits too much in hydrocarbons or carbon monoxide, it is not legal to drive. You are required to have the vehicle tested for emissions, now once every two years, in order to be able to drive in on the roads legally. http://mva.state.md.us/MVAProg/VEIP/default.htm There is also emissions testing on diesel vehicles. I guess with biodiesel, you can have the smell of fish and chips, or doughnuts, or some such cooking smell, which beats the smell of hydrogen sulphide. Ethanol burns clean, but gasohol blends tend to be of the higher octane variety and more expensive. And gasoline contains more BTUs per gallon than ethanol. Damian Anderson On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Ryan Morgan, Aerials Express wrote: >I seem to remember a report that Chrysler was going to manufacture a Jeep >Liberty with a diesel for 2004. Should get between 25-35 MPG at least? >Wait until the US dinodiesel catches up with with the rest of the world and >we get the good stuff, in 2006 or 2007 (I can't remember which.) I think >everyone will introduce a common rail at that point. > >-Original Message- >From: Crabb, David [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 11:28 AM >To: 'biofuel@yahoogroups.com' >Subject: RE: [biofuel] 1% diesel > > >I think it is because it is extra stinky here, and no one likes to get that >stink on their hands.. >because you carry that for a while. People are lazy and dont want to put >the gloves on.. heh > >Also, you cant go to every station and get diesel.. so that limits the >ability to go driving about late at night. > >for those that live near interstates.. it could be a reasonable option. >Also the sootiness is a turnoff for many people. I guess it is ok to just >pour puke that you cant see in a gas car.. but a little soot on hard >acceleration is bad in a more fuel efficient car.. go figure. > >The fact that you can only get a VW jetta etc.. for the common man.. means >that servicing is more difficult. not that many VW dealers.. etc. You could >get the Mercedes.. but then.. thats more money than most >poeple can spend. > >You *could* get a pickup if you had to have a local model.. but then you are >now getting 18mpg. and you sound like the local trash truck. > >It would be nice if one of the domestics could get a deal with VW and get >the diesel option for a motor in a car. I would think that DiamlerChrysler >would now have the expertise to transplant one of their diesels locally. a >50mpg Dodge Neon would be a nice selling point. > > >>Tricia Liu wrote >>I was told that the reason only 1% American drives Diesel car is because >>the >>Diesel is $1.67/gallon while gasoline is $1.60/gallon. And not >>available in >>all gas stations. >>But in Europe, Diesel is far more cheaper than Gasoline for about how >>much >>cheaper? > > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Biofuels list archives: >http://archive.nnytech.net/ > >Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. >To unsubscribe, send an email to: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Biofuels list archives: >http://archive.nnytech.net/ > >Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. >To unsubscribe, send an email to: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > -- Damian J. Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.unification.net Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Well, first of all I must say Was: Democracy
Jesse, There is nothing to stop you becoming involved and taking responsibility for the nation, and the political process. If you don't like it, change it. Damian On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, studio53 wrote: >I'd have to agree wholeheartedly. I love this country like I love life, but >the original idea was for government to serve the people, taking on a >background role. Now, the government is a "business" like any other >corporation, except it's a poorly run disgrace controlling and directing >everyone's lives. It is a criminal enterprise. > > >--- >Jesse Parris | studio53 | 53 maitland rd | stamford, ct 06906 >203.324.4371www.jesseparris.com/ >- Original Message - >From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: >Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 3:59 PM >Subject: [biofuel] Re: Well, first of all I must say Was: Democracy > > >> --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "csakima" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > I'm afraid I have to disagree with you Damian. >> > >> > You see, I'm an American. I've lived all my life as an American. >> I grew >> > up .. worshiping America ... singing the praises of belonging to >> the country >> >> >> I agree with you. I, too, have 'looked out the Porthole'. >> This great 'American Ship of State' has been hijacked, and the People >> working below decks don't even know it. >> >> Motie -- Damian J. Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.unification.net Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Hydrogen Cars
Darryl, The rubric of the biofuel group says this: biofuel á Biofuels, Journey to Forever: how to make your own biofuel, biodiesel, ethanol, bioenergy, distillation, renewable energy So I would suppose that fuel cells and hydrogen would come under renewable energy. President Bush said "A single chemical reaction between hydrogen and oxygen generates energy, which can be used to power a car -- producing only water, not exhaust fumes." That would suggest to me that he is talking about burning hydrogen in oxygen to produce water and heat energy. 2H2 + O2 = 2H2O Perhaps a new design of an internal combustion engine could be made to burn hydrogen. The advantage of a hydrogen powered car would be that it would not pollute, and it would relieve the developed world of our dependency on foreign oil. The engineering challenges would be considerable, but a nation that can send a man to the moon and back again may well be able do this, if it has the will. As I said earlier, we would have to find a source of hydrogen that does not involve fossil fuels. Acids acting on metals produce hydrogen. One would need chemical engineering expertise to determine a good manufacturing process for bulk hydrogen. Here is a Department of Energy web site on hydrogen and electricity generation in the same plant: http://www.energy.gov/HQPress/releases02/novpr/pr02240_v.htm Here is a DOE document on a hydrogen based economy: http://www.eren.doe.gov/hydrogenandfuelcells/pdfs/vision_doc.pdf The document talks about two methods of generating hydrogen from fossil fuels, namely "steam reforming" and "partial oxidation". It can also be produced by electrolysis of water, and also by a pyrolysis process of biomass. Another biological alternative uses the photsynthesis of green algae to produce hydrogen: http://plantbio.berkeley.edu/profiles/newProfiles/melis.html Another way to produce hydrogen would be using nuclear power: http://neri.ne.doe.gov/abstracts/02-160.pdf Where there's a will, there's a way. Damian Anderson On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Darryl McMahon wrote: >"Damian J. Anderson" wrote: > >> >> By the way, what did you think of George Bush's proposal yesterday to >> invest $1.2 billion towards research in developing a hydrogen powered car? >> That would not be biofuel, but it would be renewable and not make our >> societies dependent on corrupt dictatorships. I would like to see us >> develop nuclear fusion power, such as our sun runs on. It has run for >> billions of years on the nuclear fusion of hydrogen into helium. In that >> case, energy would become unbelievably cheap, and we could forget about >> this scarcity mentality that requires us to conserve energy. It is like >> conserving air! Free energy occurs in abundance in nature, and we need to >> learn to harness it, or imitate it. >> >I presume you are referring to this portion of the SOTU address last night: >"Tonight I'm proposing $1.2 billion in research funding so that America can >lead >the world in developing clean, hydrogen-powered automobiles. A single chemical >reaction between hydrogen and oxygen generates energy, which can be used to >power a >car -- producing only water, not exhaust fumes. With a new national >commitment, our >scientists and engineers will overcome obstacles to taking these cars from >laboratory to showroom, so that the first car driven by a child born today >could be >powered by hydrogen, and pollution-free. Join me in this important innovation >to >make our air significantly cleaner, and our country much less dependent on >foreign >sources of energy." > >Presumably he is referring to fuel cells, and not combustion. So we are >actually >talking about fuel cell electric vehicles (FCEVs). As you stated, hydrogen is >not >a biofuel, nor is it likely to be produced from biofuels in any significant >quantity. Today, most is derived from petroleum production, and the next most >likely major source is electrolysis (requiring electricity). I'll be happy to >discuss fuel cells, electric vehicles and electrical generation with you >off-line >or on another list (EVs, hydrogen fuel, fuel cells), but I don't think this is >the >appropriate place. I can also e-mail you my recent article on hydrogen fuel >cells >in the transportation sector (due for publication next month). > >Darryl McMahon -- Damian J. Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.unification.net Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] bubble drying- big correction
Is there not a danger of fire putting combustible materials in a microwave oven? Damian On Sat, 25 Jan 2003, girl mark wrote: >Theoretically a backyard test for water content is to weigh a sample, then >heat to past the boiling point of water, then weigh again. Someone figured >out once that if you do this in a microwave oven, you won't heat (and boil >away or whatever) the biodiesel, only the water, which takes care of todd's >concerns about boiling in the previous post. > > I think I still have my two first samples (ie washed fuel that started >out hazy, same batch of washed and then dried fuel that started out clear >and then reverted to hazy after sitting in a sealed jar for two weeks). If >I can find someone with a microwave among my friends I'll try and test >relative water content of either. But how much is the weight likely to change? > > Like I said I haven't done this qualitatively before- so I don't know if >the amount of water sufficient to form haze in the fuel is a sufficient >mass of water for me to weigh on a .1g sensitivity scale. any ideas on what >is the weight of the water if it is present at for instance 1200 ppm in a >100 ml sample of biodiesel? > >Mark -- Damian J. Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.unification.net Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Change of Pace
Jesse, There is already a big biofuel lobby in the USA, namely the agribusinesses such as Archer Daniels Midland who favor ethanol production from corn. However, it is more expensive to make than oil, so it is not a cost-attractive alternative. Yet they receive big subsidies from the public treasury. There was a web site listed here on the air car: http://www.theaircar.com. They claim that it works. I was mistaken though, in that they claim to be able to refill it with compressed air at an air station in 3 minutes. The 4 hour figure referred to charging it at home. The main problem with fossil fuels appears to be the political instability of the sources. They burn producing carbon dioxide and water vapor, both of which are absorbed by plants. If we are concerned about CO2, plant forests, or if you don't have land, pay other countries to keep their forests, as we are benefited from their CO2 absorption and oxygen production. The reason the English were giving people a hard time over the use of biofuel was that they were not paying fuel tax, which evidently supports the road and highway infrastructure. They did not mind if you paid the tax. Damian On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, studio53 wrote: >Regarding the air car, I don't even know why we are talking about a car that >doesn't even exist and in my opinion will not exist in our future. Might as >well be using the bandwidth to talk about a vehicle that runs on MGP. >(Magnetic Gravity Pulse). Very, very far into the future. > >Bio-diesel and SVO are here NOW and vehicles by the hundreds are being >converted all over the planet as we speak everyday because it fits into our >cultural interplay with government bureaucracy. Veg-oil plays a vital part >in the reduction of fossil fuel usage NOW, and people with no mechanical >background are forging ahead and retrofitting their vehicles without >research centers, government grants and patent-locked technology owned by a >few whose interest is primarily capitalism. The reason why Bush didn't >mention bio-diesel technology in his State of the Union address is because >automakers and big oil haven't found a way to monopolize it enough yet to >make it a political issue. Auto manufacturers get HUGH subsidies from the >government to "develop" hydrogen cell technology. It's a cash cow and they >are no going to change that anytime soon. > >Germany has an excellent government consciousness about bio-diesel, yet go >across over to England, and you are back in the stone age. The English >police are actually arresting people and charging fines for innovative and >creative alternatives to fossil fuel. >That alone tells you how far the English government is up Big Oil's a$$. > >--- >Jesse Parris | studio53 | 53 maitland rd | stamford, ct 06906 >203.324.4371www.jesseparris.com/ >- Original Message - > > >From: "Damian J. Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: >Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:26 AM >Subject: Re: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH > > >> >> How practical is that if I want to drive from Washington DC to Miami? It >> takes 4 hours to refuel. I can see that it might make sense for commuting >> in a city, but then you would need another car anyway to take the wife and >> 4 kids anywhere. >> >> Damian Anderson -- Damian J. Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.unification.net Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH
On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Keith Addison wrote: >>Some people might argue that oil, coal and other petrochemical stocks are >>derived from ancient biological sources, and so they might be included, but, >>true BioFuels come from renewable sources, that do not add to the burden on >>the atmosphere. Some people ask, " How can BioFuels be better for the >>atmosphere, if you still burn them? ". It is simple, the carbon dioxide >>(CO2 ), that is made when biofuels are burnt, recycles, back in the the plant >>material which they came from. > >So, fossil fuel is a finite resource, not renewable, it pollutes, and >it raises atmospheric CO2 levels - the CO2 in fossil fuels was >sequestered from the atmosphere over a long period, hundreds of >millions of years ago, and now we're releasing it all within a >century, overloading the atmosphere. Biofuels are renewable, not >pulluting or very much less polluting, and the CO2 released when >burning them is part of the current biological cycle and is simply >reabsorbed by growing plants. Then perhaps if you are concerned about CO2, the solution would be to plant trees, and set aside land for parks which can serve to absorb CO2 and produce oxygen. Europe long ago cut down much of its forests for fuel and building houses, furniture and ships. >>I was in Costco over the weekend and looked at the price of corn oil. It >>was about $3.20 a gallon. If nature, or nature's God, has provided us >>with a vast supply of naturally occurring petroleum, it seems like it >>does not make economic sense to make bio fuels, even if you had no tax at >>all. Even with the tax, gasoline is only $1.50 a gallon, and that is in >>the middle of a crisis of the world oil supply because of the prospect >>of another Gulf War and also the political crisis in Venezuela. So, >>if there were no tax on gasoline, or a lot less, it would be even more >>favorable than biofuels. It does not seem to make sense to do the >>chemistry yourself when it has already been done for you, and there are >>vast untapped resources of it sitting in the ground. If we ever run out >>of petroleum, we can always still grow corn and turn it into corn oil >>or alcohol to burn. But for now, both are economically a bad idea. > >This is pretty thorough-going nonsense, see my reply to your other poist. There is no need to be insulting. What is nonsense? Biofuel does not seem to be economically a good idea, and if it were not for taxes, it be even a worse idea. Convince me. Is it better for the environment, and if so, how? >>It is analagous to turning lead into gold. It can be done today with our >>knowledge of nuclear physics, but the cost of doing so is more than the >>market price of gold. Why make gold when there is an abundant supply >>sitting in the ground just waiting to be mined? >> >>There is virtue in not being dependant on Middle Eastern oil, mostly >>because it is foolish to tie our national economy, and hence its security, >>to a region of the world devoid of democracy and social justice, where >>most of the countries are backward dictatorships. Even our "friends" >>the Saudis, are a backward corrupt dictatorship. > >There's also a lot in the archives about this. You take a peculiarly >American view that somehow leaves out of the whole equation the >crucial effect US interest and interference, both official and >corporate, have had on that whole region, and continues to have. Time >and again the US has suppressed democratic initiatives there for the >sake of Big Oil. Now when it starts to backfire on you you simply >want to walk away from it all. Typical. Please check the archives >before dragging up all the old arguments again that have already been >dealt with. And please remember that there are list members here from >all over the world, including the Arab countries, not just Americans >- not even a majority of Americans. > >Keith Addison Yes, I take an American view. I am a naturalized American citizen, having come here by choice. It is a great place to live. It is not only the US which is dependent on oil. The whole modern world has run on oil since the introduction of the internal combustion engine, and subsequently, oil was used for air and sea travel and in the development of petrochecmicals. So it is not only an American concern, it is the concern of the whole modern world. Even if we did not run trains, planes and automobiles on oil, its use would not go away. I am sure that if there are Arabs who want to make their point, they can speak for themselves. -- Damian J. Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.unification.net Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH
ng something positive. >> > >> >> > >>Nick >> > >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>Tricia Liu wrote: >> > >> >> > >>Luckily we don't have to pay tax here in California for Bio-Diesel. >> > >>Mixed >> > >>fuel less than certain amount, no need to pay tax. >> > >> >> > >>I was told that the reason only 1% American drives Diesel car is >because >> > >>the >> > >>Diesel is $1.67/gallon while gasoline is $1.60/gallon. And not >> > >>available in >> > >>all gas stations. >> > >>But in Europe, Diesel is far more cheaper than Gasoline for about how >> > >>much >> > >>cheaper? >> > >>32% European drives Diesel and French is 68%? >> > >> >> > >>And I had heard about French invention www.theaircar.com >> > >> >> > >>Can you find this car running around in Europe yet? >> > >>68MPH, runs 168miles per charge. >> > >>Cost $6700($6800 Euro), retails probably $10,000? >> > >>Compressed air, recharge cost $3 and takes 3 minutes from a station. >> > >>If you bought a compressor at home, charge takes 40 minutes and >> > >>electricty >> > >>or solar is required. >> > >> >> > >>We have LA auto show, Anahein Auto show. Every other European car >> > >>manufacturers were here, but not the air car? >> > >>They are not marketable yet or what? >> > >> >> > >>If you heard anything, please let me know. I'm dying to get an air >car >> > >>if I >> > >>could. >> > >>See the renewable air, compressed to sub -300 degree and stayed frozen >> > >>liquid form. >> > >>Then heat it up, release cool air for the passengers and the only >> > >>emission >> > >>will be still air. No pollution at all. >> > >>Actually the released air is even cleaner than the smogged air we are >> > >>breathing right now, no thanks to the gasoline cars. >> > >>Killing us slowing and makes us worry half to death. >> > >> >> > >>The knowledge of the pollution, global warming is worst than >> > >>hacking/coughing from the dirty air. >> > >>California had won the title for being the poorest air quality city in >> > >>USA >> > >>for 3 years in a roll, nobody can help us. >> > >>Unlike New York, everybody drives in California. >> > >> >> > >>Keep on breaking record then, what else can we do! I have to breath, >> > >>dirty >> > >>or not! >> > >> >> > >>SymmetryCo/Go-Electric-Store >> > >>Tricia Liu >> > >>801, South Raymond Ave., $36 >> > >>Palm-Mission Industrial Park >> > >>Alhambra, CA.91803-1545 >> > >>Phone: 1-626-642-1038 >> > >>Fax: 1-626-628-3903 >> > >>Cell: 1-626-536-4850 >> > >> >> > >> >> > >>- Original Message - >> > >>From: "Nick Taylor (SMTechnology.com)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> > >>To: >> > >>Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 1:31 AM >> > >>Subject: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH >> > >> >> > >> >> > >>> Hi Guys, >> > >>> Just thought I would let you know what the British government is >doing >> > >>> to support Biodieselabsolutely nothing!! >> > >>> Currently here, we are paying silly amounts for our fuel, on average >> > >>> $1.30 (USD) for a litre of dino-diesel and $1.27 for unleaded. >> > >>Therefore >> > >>> making your own fuel is an attractive ideabut there is one >> > >>> problem...as its cheaper to make, the government does not get its >> > >>slice >> > >>> of the tax (to pay for their gas guzzling auto's!)..therefore they >> > >>don't >> > >>> encourage anyone to mass produce. As an example, my company has >> > >>applied >> > >>> for a licence to make its own biodiesel for our 4 VW Caddy vans. Not >a >> > >>> problem we were told by Customs and Exciseas long as you pay the >> > >>&
RE: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH
Nick, Do you have scientific data to show that biofuel is cleaner than petroleum? Does it not depend on the engine? My car is certified as an Ultra-Low Emission Vehicle. I guess if you are running a 20 year old gas guzzler, it may run in a dirty way, but good modern engines are very clean. Damian On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Nick Taylor (SMTechnology.com) wrote: >Damian, I think you missed one major point about 'biofullers': Biofuel >is much much cleaner than dino-fuel, so people prefer to use biodiesel >where possible. Even though it may cost me more to run my van on >Biodiesel, I will be smiling at the thought of 99% less pollutants. Oil >is dirty. Diesel is dirty. That's why people won't use it unless they >have to when there is an alternative. >It's a simple equation, not really to do with the oil giants.. > >Kind Regards >Nick Taylor, >Technical Consultant. >SMTechnology.com > > >-Original Message- >From: Damian J. Anderson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: 28 January 2003 17:13 >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH > > >I was in Costco over the weekend and looked at the price of corn oil. It >was about $3.20 a gallon. If nature, or nature's God, has provided us >with a vast supply of naturally occurring petroleum, it seems like it >does not make economic sense to make bio fuels, even if you had no tax >at >all. Even with the tax, gasoline is only $1.50 a gallon, and that is in >the middle of a crisis of the world oil supply because of the prospect >of another Gulf War and also the political crisis in Venezuela. So, >if there were no tax on gasoline, or a lot less, it would be even more >favorable than biofuels. It does not seem to make sense to do the >chemistry yourself when it has already been done for you, and there are >vast untapped resources of it sitting in the ground. If we ever run out >of petroleum, we can always still grow corn and turn it into corn oil >or alcohol to burn. But for now, both are economically a bad idea. > >It is analagous to turning lead into gold. It can be done today with our >knowledge of nuclear physics, but the cost of doing so is more than the >market price of gold. Why make gold when there is an abundant supply >sitting in the ground just waiting to be mined? > >There is virtue in not being dependant on Middle Eastern oil, mostly >because it is foolish to tie our national economy, and hence its >security, >to a region of the world devoid of democracy and social justice, where >most of the countries are backward dictatorships. Even our "friends" >the Saudis, are a backward corrupt dictatorship. > >Damian Anderson -- Damian J. Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.unification.net Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Democracy was [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH
Hakan, If it is a government of the people, by the people, for the people, then it is a democracy. A society in which the people do not have the option to change their government if they don't like it is not a democracy. What democracies are there in the Middle East? I would count Israel and Turkey, but the others are for the most part desert satrapies. You are entitled to your opinion, and I am entitled to disagree with you. Ah, the joys of free speech! ;-) By the way, what did you think of George Bush's proposal yesterday to invest $1.2 billion towards research in developing a hydrogen powered car? That would not be biofuel, but it would be renewable and not make our societies dependent on corrupt dictatorships. I would like to see us develop nuclear fusion power, such as our sun runs on. It has run for billions of years on the nuclear fusion of hydrogen into helium. In that case, energy would become unbelievably cheap, and we could forget about this scarcity mentality that requires us to conserve energy. It is like conserving air! Free energy occurs in abundance in nature, and we need to learn to harness it, or imitate it. One question of economic significance would be how to generate hydrogen cheaply. Damian On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Hakan Falk wrote: > >Dear Damian, > >Another skewed view about dictatorships and democracy. Many of what we >historically consider as the the worst examples of dictators, was duly >elected by the people in a democratic system. On state or country level, >some countries try to apply very global dictatorship towards the world >community. That is the true dictatorship, not elected in any democratic way >and maintained by military power. I would be very careful in waving the >democracy and social justice flag if I was from US, especially at the >current times. Nor does US have a very clean history to be proud of. > >It is naive to believe in any absolute justice, even if it is a noble goal >and a dream worth while pursuing. To belive that US have achieved some sort >of near perfect status, is very wrong and extremely dangerous. I would not >place them very high on the list of good democracies (within top 30), but >this is a very personal opinion, as most of this about democracy. > >Hakan > > >At 12:13 PM 1/28/2003 -0500, you wrote: > >>There is virtue in not being dependant on Middle Eastern oil, mostly >>because it is foolish to tie our national economy, and hence its security, >>to a region of the world devoid of democracy and social justice, where >>most of the countries are backward dictatorships. Even our "friends" >>the Saudis, are a backward corrupt dictatorship. >> >>Damian Anderson -- Damian J. Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.unification.net Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH
Keep in mind that the British and American gallon are different. A British gallon is 153.72159 fluid ounces (4.54609 liters), an American gallon is 128 fluid ounces (3.7854118 liters). At that rate, your duty is $1.84 per US gallon of diesel, which is more than our total cost. Taxed to death is right. No wonder people leave Europe for the lower tax climes of the USA. Damian On Tue, 28 Jan 2003, Ken Basterfield wrote: >A minor point, the Uk duty on biodiesel is 28.6 pence ( rebated by 20 pence >of the standard dino d duty rate of 48.6 pence per litre) I make it that >28.6 pence is about 46 cents unless the dollar / pound exchange rate has >suddenly gone mad. > >Ellis and Everard can supply methanol at £205.00 per 45 gallon barrel >Ken >- Original Message - >From: "Nick Taylor (SMTechnology.com)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: >Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 9:31 AM >Subject: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH > > >> Hi Guys, >> Just thought I would let you know what the British government is doing >> to support Biodieselabsolutely nothing!! >> Currently here, we are paying silly amounts for our fuel, on average >> $1.30 (USD) for a litre of dino-diesel and $1.27 for unleaded. Therefore >> making your own fuel is an attractive ideabut there is one >> problem...as its cheaper to make, the government does not get its slice >> of the tax (to pay for their gas guzzling auto's!)..therefore they don't >> encourage anyone to mass produce. As an example, my company has applied >> for a licence to make its own biodiesel for our 4 VW Caddy vans. Not a >> problem we were told by Customs and Exciseas long as you pay the >> government $0.76 in tax per litre used alone!. Once you add that to the >> cost of small scale production, its going to cost us more than to use >> dino-diesel.we are forced to use dino-diesel, and they still get >> their money. >> I'm embarrassed that the UK is so far behind everyone else in >> Europe...after spending 4 months in Sweden last year, I realised that >> the UK is a dinosaur itself, stuck in the industrial revolution of 100 >> years ago (we are still struggling with broadband internet outside of >> the big cities!!!). >> ..But don't worry folks...I'm going to be running my van on biodiesel >> once I've got the hang of making it!! Stuff the government! >> If anyone is interested, here's what's in the news in the UK: >> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/england/1750734.stm >> One last thing...is there anyone in this group from the South West of >> England that can recommend a good methanol supplier??? >> Nick -- Damian J. Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.unification.net Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH
I was in Costco over the weekend and looked at the price of corn oil. It was about $3.20 a gallon. If nature, or nature's God, has provided us with a vast supply of naturally occurring petroleum, it seems like it does not make economic sense to make bio fuels, even if you had no tax at all. Even with the tax, gasoline is only $1.50 a gallon, and that is in the middle of a crisis of the world oil supply because of the prospect of another Gulf War and also the political crisis in Venezuela. So, if there were no tax on gasoline, or a lot less, it would be even more favorable than biofuels. It does not seem to make sense to do the chemistry yourself when it has already been done for you, and there are vast untapped resources of it sitting in the ground. If we ever run out of petroleum, we can always still grow corn and turn it into corn oil or alcohol to burn. But for now, both are economically a bad idea. It is analagous to turning lead into gold. It can be done today with our knowledge of nuclear physics, but the cost of doing so is more than the market price of gold. Why make gold when there is an abundant supply sitting in the ground just waiting to be mined? There is virtue in not being dependant on Middle Eastern oil, mostly because it is foolish to tie our national economy, and hence its security, to a region of the world devoid of democracy and social justice, where most of the countries are backward dictatorships. Even our "friends" the Saudis, are a backward corrupt dictatorship. Damian Anderson On Tue, 28 Jan 2003, murdoch wrote: >There is a discussion group for the air car here: >http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/mdiaircar/ > >I've always thought it was an interesting concept and I try to keep my >eye on it, though they have not impressed me as really making progress >yet in business. Perhaps they will yet. Their business model seems >to be to franchise out their idea in some way. I'm not a fan of that. > >The air car was mentioned a few years ago in relation to trying to >help Mexico City cure some of its air pollution problems (i.e., zero >non-air emissions at the vehicle). > >As to the derivations of petroleum, I guess there could be some >debate, but anyway, I just tend to think of all bio and other fuels >outside of ground-sourced as "synthetic" insofar as they're made by >man taking action to do some chemistry. -- Damian J. Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.unification.net Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH
dino-diesel.we are forced to use dino-diesel, and they still get >> their money. >> I'm embarrassed that the UK is so far behind everyone else in >> Europe...after spending 4 months in Sweden last year, I realised that >> the UK is a dinosaur itself, stuck in the industrial revolution of 100 >> years ago (we are still struggling with broadband internet outside of >> the big cities!!!). >> ..But don't worry folks...I'm going to be running my van on biodiesel >> once I've got the hang of making it!! Stuff the government! >> If anyone is interested, here's what's in the news in the UK: >> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/england/1750734.stm >> One last thing...is there anyone in this group from the South West of >> England that can recommend a good methanol supplier??? >> Nick >> >> >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> >> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >> >> Biofuels list archives: >> http://archive.nnytech.net/ >> >> Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. >> To unsubscribe, send an email to: >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >> >> >> > > > > > > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Biofuels list archives: >http://archive.nnytech.net/ > >Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. >To unsubscribe, send an email to: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > -- Damian J. Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.unification.net Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Can you use vegetable oil to power an oil furnace?
in his garage. "But if I went into it as a business I think the red tape would strangle me." This, Nicholson says, is a typical experience of anyone trying to run a vehicle on cooking oil. "The government seems to be making it deliberately difficult," he says. "The most important thing to remember is, it is not illegal to run your car on cooking oil." As long as duty is paid, that is. And Nicholson reckons that, since duty is paid retrospectively, even those who were stopped in the south Wales checks were not breaking the law. "I am driving on fuel on which I have not yet paid the tax. I will do, but I don't need to until it's used. So was anyone who was stopped given the chance to pay his tax? If not, why not? To stop anybody for using this fuel is harassment." He believes that the stories (one paper suggested more than 400 people had been pulled over for using cooking oil) have done the excise's job for it. There is no need for a Frying Squad; the rumour of its existence is enough. Indeed, Hebson's stocktaking at Asda's Swansea branch suggests that many previous cooking-oil users have been put off by the assumption that they could have their vehicle impounded at any moment: saving a few pence a litre hardly seems worth the risk of a £500 fine. Such is the fear of the mythical Frying Squad that Nicholson now prints car stickers for those in his network who want to announce their legitimacy. "Once that first bloke had been done, I think the publicity put a lot of people off," says Hebson. "Almost from the moment the story appeared in the paper, our sales went back down to the national average." But there is something appealingly anti-establishment about all this; something subversive about how, largely on individual initiative, undertaken without flourish or fanfare, it is possible to sidestep the multinationals and the government and power your car in a natural, clean and efficient way. Today. All you need is a bit of cooking oil, new or second-hand, and the relevant tax return form, available to download from Nicholson's biopower website. "I suppose if I factored in the time I spend filtering the stuff, it wouldn't work out so cheap," says Dovey. "But there's a little bit of me that says it's worth it just to be getting one over on the big oil companies, really." Meanwhile, Asda has announced that as of next year, its fleet of delivery vehicles will be converted to run on fuel made from the waste on cooking oil collected from stores across the country (they fry a million doughnuts a day nationwide, apparently). Though a spokesman was quick to point out that they didn't get the idea from their customers in south Wales. Oh, and they will be paying the duty. Useful links John Nicholson's Bio-Power website http://www.northwales.org.uk/bio-power/index.htm Institute of Petroleum http://www.petroleum.co.uk/ -- Damian J. Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.unification.net Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
