Re: [Biofuel] Motorbikes '16 times worse than cars for pollution'

[burak-l]

You have good points.  They can be applied to many sports. Final
conclusion maybe be as brief  as following
"It is the human race polluting the world while wasting resources whatever
the reason is"

And you are not far from the truth.  It comes down to the personal choices
of the individual not to join or take part.

Regards

Burak


> Actually,
>
> It's not the racing vehicles themselves that are so polluting as it is
> the balance of the industry.
>
> Think about all the billions of miles logged by race fans to go see
> their superheros every race weekend or bubblegum card signing. Think
> about all the millions of metric tons of cheap plastic crap,
> u-h-h-h-e-m-m-m, "memorabilia," that is cranked out for consumers to
> adorn their environs with. Think about all the energy used to mine and
> manufacture all that crap. Then think about all the energy used to
> transport it. Then think about all the energy consumed to go purchase it
> or is used in all the other supportive sectors of that industry.
>
> Tired of thinking yet? The energy equation goes far beyond how many
> gallons get churned up by a bevy of bubbas every weekend.
>
> So you see, supporting racing supports fossil fuel consumption, which in
> turn increases the United States #1 export - cash in the form of petrol
> dollars. And many of those petrol-dollars help fund endeavors that are
> counter to the best interests of the US.
>
> All that makes racing a rather unpatriotic and un-American endeavor.
> Pursuing such folly in turn makes a race fan candidate for NSA
> monitoring and perhaps eventual internment as an enemy combatant,
> thereby having no recourse, legal or otherwise, but to rot in the musty
> dungeons of the super riche until one's flesh rots off while they enjoy
> daily tea and crumpets on the ninth fairway.
>
> No better reason not to wear a baseball cap with a number on it if you
> ask me.
>
> Todd Swearingen
>
> Happy Humbug... :-)
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>>Well I am not against racing, but my point is if these researchers look
>>at the racing starting from F1 down to Nascar the picture is not rosy.
>>
>>As you have written in your e-mail F1 team burns a lot (200.000lt per
>> year
>>per team).  So if you add them all its more than a drop in the bucket.
>>Let's hope that the technology developped in those races reflects to the
>>daily cars.
>>
>>If you consider that bikes are 4 strokes, fuel injected and have
>> catalytic
>>converters, they can be a good solution to help with clogging cities and
>>air pollution.
>>
>>I believe the better solution in the big cities would be public
>>transportation, and electric vehicles.  Lets hope they would also
>> research
>>the effect of using biofuel in busses as public transportation.
>>
>>Regards
>>
>>Burak
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Burak_l wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
And finally I hope they do not research how much is waisted in car
 races
like formula-1, Lemans endurance etc...
Those machines are loud and very very thirsty.  Probabily one of them
during
1 race pollutes more than a typical rider
can manage whole year.


>>>With regard to racing, it isn't that black and white.
>>>
>>>First, you seem to be conflating wasting resources (eg burning lots of
>>>fuel) with the amount of pollution produced. They aren't necessarily the
>>>same thing. You can burn 10 liters dirtily or you can burn 100 liters
>>>cleanly - they are different issues.
>>>
>>>Second, even if a single team in a single race uses more fuel or
>>>pollutes more that a single private individual in an entire year, you're
>>>still comparing (for F1) 10 teams (2 cars each) by 19 races to millions
>>>of riders/drivers every day over the course of a year. You're talking
>>>about a drop in the bucket.
>>>
>>>On the plus side, racing drives innovation. Consider the FSI engine
>>>technology Audi developed for the their R8 LMP (LeMans Prototype) car.
>>>Now you can buy lean burning FSI powered cars at Audi dealers.
>>>
>>>Likewise, the brand new Audi R10 LMP has a V12 TDI powerplant that gets
>>>over a 100 hp per liter. That kind of performance out of reliable diesel
>>>is amazing. An I expect those advances in diesel technology will show up
>>>in VW and Audi dealerships within 5 or 6 years.
>>>
>>>Racing also has the ability to prove to people that renewables aren't
>>>just some crunchy granola lefty tree-hugger pipedream. Demonstrating
>>>that renewables can perform is critical in the PR battle with the oil
>>>lobby.
>>>
>>>For example, the IndyRacingLeague - and thus by default, the Indy500 -
>>>is switching from methanol to renewable ethanol for the 2007 season.
>>>That's a huge win for renewables.
>>>
>>>As mentioned above, the Audi factory team is running a diesel powered
>>>LMP in ALMS this year, although I suspect Audi will be using
>>>petrodiesel, at least to start. However, that won't be the only diesel
>>>in ALMS this season - D1 Oils plc is sponsoring a biodiesel powered Lola
>>>LMP that will ru

Re: [Biofuel] Motorbikes '16 times worse than cars for pollution'

[burak-l]

Well I am not against racing, but my point is if these researchers look
at the racing starting from F1 down to Nascar the picture is not rosy.

As you have written in your e-mail F1 team burns a lot (200.000lt per year
per team).  So if you add them all its more than a drop in the bucket. 
Let's hope that the technology developped in those races reflects to the
daily cars.

If you consider that bikes are 4 strokes, fuel injected and have catalytic
converters, they can be a good solution to help with clogging cities and
air pollution.

I believe the better solution in the big cities would be public
transportation, and electric vehicles.  Lets hope they would also research
the effect of using biofuel in busses as public transportation.

Regards

Burak


> Burak_l wrote:
>
>> And finally I hope they do not research how much is waisted in car races
>> like formula-1, Lemans endurance etc...
>> Those machines are loud and very very thirsty.  Probabily one of them
>> during
>> 1 race pollutes more than a typical rider
>> can manage whole year.
>
> With regard to racing, it isn't that black and white.
>
> First, you seem to be conflating wasting resources (eg burning lots of
> fuel) with the amount of pollution produced. They aren't necessarily the
> same thing. You can burn 10 liters dirtily or you can burn 100 liters
> cleanly - they are different issues.
>
> Second, even if a single team in a single race uses more fuel or
> pollutes more that a single private individual in an entire year, you're
> still comparing (for F1) 10 teams (2 cars each) by 19 races to millions
> of riders/drivers every day over the course of a year. You're talking
> about a drop in the bucket.
>
> On the plus side, racing drives innovation. Consider the FSI engine
> technology Audi developed for the their R8 LMP (LeMans Prototype) car.
> Now you can buy lean burning FSI powered cars at Audi dealers.
>
> Likewise, the brand new Audi R10 LMP has a V12 TDI powerplant that gets
> over a 100 hp per liter. That kind of performance out of reliable diesel
> is amazing. An I expect those advances in diesel technology will show up
> in VW and Audi dealerships within 5 or 6 years.
>
> Racing also has the ability to prove to people that renewables aren't
> just some crunchy granola lefty tree-hugger pipedream. Demonstrating
> that renewables can perform is critical in the PR battle with the oil
> lobby.
>
> For example, the IndyRacingLeague - and thus by default, the Indy500 -
> is switching from methanol to renewable ethanol for the 2007 season.
> That's a huge win for renewables.
>
> As mentioned above, the Audi factory team is running a diesel powered
> LMP in ALMS this year, although I suspect Audi will be using
> petrodiesel, at least to start. However, that won't be the only diesel
> in ALMS this season - D1 Oils plc is sponsoring a biodiesel powered Lola
> LMP that will run b5, b20 and b50 blends.
>
> But yes, on the negative side, racing does waste resources. According to
>   formula1.com, "During a typical season a Formula One team will use
> over 200,000 litres of fuel for testing and racing." That's a lotta fuel.
>
> And don't get me started about the the fact that NASCAR still uses
> leaded gasoline.
>
> Still, I think you're throwing the baby out with the bath water and
> having an emotional reaction to a study you don't like.
>
> Small displacement motorcycles don't burn cleanly and pollute a lot.
> Acknowledge that fact and move on with your life. Don't try to justify
> it by pointing fingers at someone else. That's just childish.
>
> jh
>
>
>
> ___
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> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
> messages):
> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>
>



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RE: [Biofuel] Check out Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes

[burak-l]

Hello;
There are some MC's running on diesel.
In india they are selling old british (Enfield Bullets) bikes converted to
diesel.
In Europe there are some small companies working diesel based bikes.

But out of the big manufacturers (Suzuki Honda Yanaha Kawasaki BMW Harley
etc) none of them has such model.

I believe the emissions may be a reason, also high maintenance and heavy
engines (compared to gasoline).
In any case a samll capacity (less than 250cc) bike will give you avery high
mileage (like 50 to 60mpg) (2 litres to 100km).

Higher displacement bikes (like 1000cc 100Hp) whic will give you 30 to 40mpg
(6 litre to 100km).

Consumption on bikes heavily depends how much you twist throttle and how
often.
With the same bike different riders (with different habits) will have
different values.

If I were to prefer the MC for savings I would stick to 4 stroke 250cc
engine utility models.
Cheap to buy, cheap to maintain and cheap to insure.

I just wish more drivers would use MC's to save energy time and money.

Last month there was an article about a Motorcycle running on fuel cell.
Another good idea.  Please check
http://envbike.com/

Best Regards

Burak Cedetas

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Rademan, Jacobus
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 10:15 AM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Check out Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes


Hi all, i own  a landrover disco tdi and   get 980km on a tank 85l but on
the motorbike which use petrol 19km/l my question,where
are the tdi motorbikes,diesel cars are lighter than petrol cars,so diesel
bikes will also be,is 40km/l reachable?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 8:30 AM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Check out Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes



Hello;
22mpg diesel cost less than same amount of gasoline so you save some.

BUT, May I ask why do you need a Hummer sized expedition machine?
Except USA such large cars or SUV's are out of our shopping list anyway.
The cost and running expenses do not justify them.

I like going offroad.  Currently I do that with a motorbike.  If I choose to
buy an offroad 4x4,
I wouldn't consider anything bigger than 2.5 litre diesel which will give me
at least 25 to 30mpg.

May be we should consider to change our purchasing habbits in favour of
preserving whatever
is left in the world in terms of resources. I hope the below quote from your
e-mail will come
true some day;
"The US needs (and will) get over its fascination w/ giant cars."

As I have written in my previous e-mail, our kids will be the ones to suffer
/ enjoy results of our choices.

Regards

Burak




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mike Weaver
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 2:24 PM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Check out Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes


Not in a Hummer-sized or Expedition-sized vehicle you won't!  I counted
over 30 that don't even get 20 mpg on EPA's website.
I have a VW Golf and get at least 43-46.

The US doesn't sell small diesels, except the Jeep, but it's so heavy it
still get no mileage.  Isuzu was was the last carmaker to build a decent
midsize SUV w/ a diesel - it got 30-35 or so but that was years ago.

The US needs (and will) get over its fascination w/ giant cars.


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>Hello;
>
>You will get far more than 22mpg with diesel.
>Unless of course you are looking for very large capacity engine (like 6
>litres) which and average city user does not need.
>
>Over here (outside of USA) you  can buy 2.5 to 3.5 litre diesel engined
>SUV's and Vans.
>You will get at least 25mpg.  And these are 4x4 heavy duty machines.
>
>Or you can get small capacity diesel cars (example 1.6 litre Hyundai Getz)
>and you get something
>like 40 miles to a gallon easily. These are real life values including city
>traffic (not test values).
>
>I have looked at the article, it mentiones that in US the refineries do not
>have the capacity for the diesel production.
>Well hey  maybe this is a great opportunity for bio-diesel  Start using
>the vegetable oil or even better
>waste vegetable oil.  You will save the environment, create jobs for local
>farmers and pollute far less.
>I would estimate that for  a bio-diesel plant it will take maximum 6 months
>from scratch to be operational.
>And you can use the local farmers produce or local restaurants WVO (and
save
>the pollution).
>Even better if you have the talent like many in this list you can make it
at
>home, and save a bundle...
>
>Article also mentions that diesel prices are soaring.  Yes this is true. I
>can tell you that this is a great
>tax revenue for all of the government.  I can tell you that over here there
>are less taxes on biodiesel.
>The government actually supports the BD product

RE: [Biofuel] Check out Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes

[burak-l]

Hello;
22mpg diesel cost less than same amount of gasoline so you save some.

BUT, May I ask why do you need a Hummer sized expedition machine?
Except USA such large cars or SUV's are out of our shopping list anyway.
The cost and running expenses do not justify them.

I like going offroad.  Currently I do that with a motorbike.  If I choose to
buy an offroad 4x4,
I wouldn't consider anything bigger than 2.5 litre diesel which will give me
at least 25 to 30mpg.

May be we should consider to change our purchasing habbits in favour of
preserving whatever
is left in the world in terms of resources. I hope the below quote from your
e-mail will come
true some day;
"The US needs (and will) get over its fascination w/ giant cars."

As I have written in my previous e-mail, our kids will be the ones to suffer
/ enjoy results of our choices.

Regards

Burak




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mike Weaver
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 2:24 PM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Check out Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes


Not in a Hummer-sized or Expedition-sized vehicle you won't!  I counted
over 30 that don't even get 20 mpg on EPA's website.
I have a VW Golf and get at least 43-46.

The US doesn't sell small diesels, except the Jeep, but it's so heavy it
still get no mileage.  Isuzu was was the last carmaker to build a decent
midsize SUV w/ a diesel - it got 30-35 or so but that was years ago.

The US needs (and will) get over its fascination w/ giant cars.


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>Hello;
>
>You will get far more than 22mpg with diesel.
>Unless of course you are looking for very large capacity engine (like 6
>litres) which and average city user does not need.
>
>Over here (outside of USA) you  can buy 2.5 to 3.5 litre diesel engined
>SUV's and Vans.
>You will get at least 25mpg.  And these are 4x4 heavy duty machines.
>
>Or you can get small capacity diesel cars (example 1.6 litre Hyundai Getz)
>and you get something
>like 40 miles to a gallon easily. These are real life values including city
>traffic (not test values).
>
>I have looked at the article, it mentiones that in US the refineries do not
>have the capacity for the diesel production.
>Well hey  maybe this is a great opportunity for bio-diesel  Start using
>the vegetable oil or even better
>waste vegetable oil.  You will save the environment, create jobs for local
>farmers and pollute far less.
>I would estimate that for  a bio-diesel plant it will take maximum 6 months
>from scratch to be operational.
>And you can use the local farmers produce or local restaurants WVO (and
save
>the pollution).
>Even better if you have the talent like many in this list you can make it
at
>home, and save a bundle...
>
>Article also mentions that diesel prices are soaring.  Yes this is true. I
>can tell you that this is a great
>tax revenue for all of the government.  I can tell you that over here there
>are less taxes on biodiesel.
>The government actually supports the BD production.  Therefore the BD sells
>for less than normal diesel.
>To save more please refer to the last sentence of the previous paragraph.
>
>There is one more issue about commercial transportation.  We need to build
>more railroads.  Trucking everything
>wil not be feasible.  Again in Turkiye I believe we have the largest truck
>population in Europe.  But at the end of the
>day no matter how many roads you build they are always congested and the
>accident rates are difficult to control.
>For commercial transportation you need to build railroads and develop the
>seaways.
>
>So there is a solution for all of the claims this article makes.  It all
>comes down to the personal choice of each individual.
>Do we want to solve problems?  Or do we prefer to enjoy the luxury of
>"wasting energy"?  I gues our kids will be the one
>to appreciate our efforts or put the blame on us.
>
>regards
>
>Burak
>Istanbul, Turkiye
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mike Weaver
>Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 11:21 PM
>To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Check out Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes
>
>
>I read that.  Diesel will only help if combined w/ high mileage cars,
>hybrid and bio.  To go to diesel so Americans can get 22 mpg in their
>SUVs is pretty silly.
>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>
>
>>Click here: Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes
>>
>>
>>
>0888.html>
>
>
>>FYI.  No mention of biodiesel to augment supplies.
>>
>>
>>
>>___
>>Biofuel mailing list
>>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
>>
>>Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>>
>>Search the combined Bio

RE: [Biofuel] Check out Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes

[burak-l]

Ok, if you can brew your own this is a solution as well.
Get organized and do it.

Regards

Burak

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mike Weaver
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 2:26 PM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Check out Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes



Also, you can't set up a Biodiesel plant in the US.  It's illegal to
sell fuel unless you have it tested by ASTM, which costs a fortune.
You can brew your own or as part of a coop.

-Mike


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>Hello;
>
>You will get far more than 22mpg with diesel.
>Unless of course you are looking for very large capacity engine (like 6
>litres) which and average city user does not need.
>
>Over here (outside of USA) you  can buy 2.5 to 3.5 litre diesel engined
>SUV's and Vans.
>You will get at least 25mpg.  And these are 4x4 heavy duty machines.
>
>Or you can get small capacity diesel cars (example 1.6 litre Hyundai Getz)
>and you get something
>like 40 miles to a gallon easily. These are real life values including city
>traffic (not test values).
>
>I have looked at the article, it mentiones that in US the refineries do not
>have the capacity for the diesel production.
>Well hey  maybe this is a great opportunity for bio-diesel  Start using
>the vegetable oil or even better
>waste vegetable oil.  You will save the environment, create jobs for local
>farmers and pollute far less.
>I would estimate that for  a bio-diesel plant it will take maximum 6 months
>from scratch to be operational.
>And you can use the local farmers produce or local restaurants WVO (and
save
>the pollution).
>Even better if you have the talent like many in this list you can make it
at
>home, and save a bundle...
>
>Article also mentions that diesel prices are soaring.  Yes this is true. I
>can tell you that this is a great
>tax revenue for all of the government.  I can tell you that over here there
>are less taxes on biodiesel.
>The government actually supports the BD production.  Therefore the BD sells
>for less than normal diesel.
>To save more please refer to the last sentence of the previous paragraph.
>
>There is one more issue about commercial transportation.  We need to build
>more railroads.  Trucking everything
>wil not be feasible.  Again in Turkiye I believe we have the largest truck
>population in Europe.  But at the end of the
>day no matter how many roads you build they are always congested and the
>accident rates are difficult to control.
>For commercial transportation you need to build railroads and develop the
>seaways.
>
>So there is a solution for all of the claims this article makes.  It all
>comes down to the personal choice of each individual.
>Do we want to solve problems?  Or do we prefer to enjoy the luxury of
>"wasting energy"?  I gues our kids will be the one
>to appreciate our efforts or put the blame on us.
>
>regards
>
>Burak
>Istanbul, Turkiye
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mike Weaver
>Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 11:21 PM
>To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Check out Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes
>
>
>I read that.  Diesel will only help if combined w/ high mileage cars,
>hybrid and bio.  To go to diesel so Americans can get 22 mpg in their
>SUVs is pretty silly.
>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>
>
>>Click here: Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes
>>
>>
>>
>0888.html>
>
>
>>FYI.  No mention of biodiesel to augment supplies.
>>
>>
>>
>>___
>>Biofuel mailing list
>>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
>>
>>Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>>
>>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
>>
>>
>messages):
>
>
>>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>___
>Biofuel mailing list
>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
>
>Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
>messages):
>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>
>
>
>___
>Biofuel mailing list
>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
>
>Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages):
>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>
>


___
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RE: [Biofuel] Check out Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes

[burak-l]

Hello;

You will get far more than 22mpg with diesel.
Unless of course you are looking for very large capacity engine (like 6
litres) which and average city user does not need.

Over here (outside of USA) you  can buy 2.5 to 3.5 litre diesel engined
SUV's and Vans.
You will get at least 25mpg.  And these are 4x4 heavy duty machines.

Or you can get small capacity diesel cars (example 1.6 litre Hyundai Getz)
and you get something
like 40 miles to a gallon easily. These are real life values including city
traffic (not test values).

I have looked at the article, it mentiones that in US the refineries do not
have the capacity for the diesel production.
Well hey  maybe this is a great opportunity for bio-diesel  Start using
the vegetable oil or even better
waste vegetable oil.  You will save the environment, create jobs for local
farmers and pollute far less.
I would estimate that for  a bio-diesel plant it will take maximum 6 months
from scratch to be operational.
And you can use the local farmers produce or local restaurants WVO (and save
the pollution).
Even better if you have the talent like many in this list you can make it at
home, and save a bundle...

Article also mentions that diesel prices are soaring.  Yes this is true. I
can tell you that this is a great
tax revenue for all of the government.  I can tell you that over here there
are less taxes on biodiesel.
The government actually supports the BD production.  Therefore the BD sells
for less than normal diesel.
To save more please refer to the last sentence of the previous paragraph.

There is one more issue about commercial transportation.  We need to build
more railroads.  Trucking everything
wil not be feasible.  Again in Turkiye I believe we have the largest truck
population in Europe.  But at the end of the
day no matter how many roads you build they are always congested and the
accident rates are difficult to control.
For commercial transportation you need to build railroads and develop the
seaways.

So there is a solution for all of the claims this article makes.  It all
comes down to the personal choice of each individual.
Do we want to solve problems?  Or do we prefer to enjoy the luxury of
"wasting energy"?  I gues our kids will be the one
to appreciate our efforts or put the blame on us.

regards

Burak
Istanbul, Turkiye

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mike Weaver
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 11:21 PM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Check out Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes


I read that.  Diesel will only help if combined w/ high mileage cars,
hybrid and bio.  To go to diesel so Americans can get 22 mpg in their
SUVs is pretty silly.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Click here: Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes
>

>
>
> FYI.  No mention of biodiesel to augment supplies.
>
>
>
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RE: [Biofuel] Bicycle -was- Fwd: pocket bike USD85.00 (hot sale)

[burak-l]

Brilliant idea indeed.
I have been to Holland and to Denmark.  They use bycicles everyday. They
have rain and wind but they do cycle.
I am sure this helps their health as well.

I wish you all the best.

About Bio motorcycles,  I have been riding over 10 years.  Motorcycles save
me time (almost 1 hour every day), and gas money.
Small bikes 125cc burn very little fuel around 2 litres for 100km.  The
problem is people buy their expensive cars, and enjoy nice music
and pollute air while they are sitting in the morning rush our for hours (oh
yes they also can enjoy the conversations on cell phones).
This is slowly (but I mean very slowly) changing.  If there was a way to
change them to bikes, the fuel consumption would probabily reduced to %30..

In india if I am not mistaken they do have diesel bikes. I believe they make
diesel version of Enfield.  But be aware that these are
not good quality machines. In India it does not matter, you have a mechanic
in every village, parts are plenty and cheap too.
Bu out of India you have problems. How do I know?  Many people go to India,
buy an Enfield for nothing, and they get stuck
in Turkiye on their way back to Europe (of course if they can make it all
the way here).
I had tried to help a Norvegian guy who ended up shipping the bike to
Norway.
So If you are going to work on an Enfield be aware of this issue.
If you can get a diesel Enfield, with spare parts well you are on business.

Last month there was an article about a Motorcycle running on fuel cell.
Another good idea.  Please check
http://envbike.com/

Finally, I remember a link on the internet that a person has converted his
Harley to run WVO.  This was maybe 4 years ago.
I am sure a quick search in Google can get some results.

Greetings,

Burak
Istanbul

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Sam Critchley
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 3:56 PM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bicycle -was- Fwd: pocket bike USD85.00 (hot sale)



Hi,

On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 13:43:54 +0200, MH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
>  Out of curiosity,
>  how many kids on this list
>  ride a bicycle more than once a week. . .

Well, I live in Amsterdam, NL, which is slightly different as the
Netherlands is totally geared-up for cycling, but I do cycle every day at
home. Everywhere around town, then, depending on the weather, to the
airport (12-15km) and for meetings in towns and villages up to 20km away.

I'm currently working in Swindon, UK, during the week, and have bought a
bike so I can get around the town and discover the countryside a bit.
There are people working in this office who drive to work from their homes
less than 2 miles away! I think they don't realise how easy it is to walk
or cycle (and how good you feel) after you've got the equipment and the
route sorted out.

I'm currently campaigning (by letter etc) for a system in London where a
percentage of the revenue earned from the congestion charging system (it
costs £5 to drive a car into central London during the day) is distributed
amongst registered cycle commuters. The idea would be that you prove you
live outside the zone and work inside it (letter from your employer plus
voting register) and are then issued a smart card. Every day you commute
into the zone by bike you pass the card over a reader at the edge of the
zone. At the end of the month, the percentage of the money paid by car
drivers is distributed amongst the registered cycle commuters according to
how many days they've cycled to work that month.

If anyone can think of ways of helping out with the effort (or
implementing it in your local congestion charging zone/toll road) then
please drop me a line.

Thanks,


Sam






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Conversion kits WAS RE: [Biofuel] Set up help

[burak-l]

Hello all,
I was just thinking to ask about the following conversion kits, than I
have read the e-mail by Mark.
Does anybody at the list have experience with the below links?
 http://www.greasel.com
 http://www.greasecar.com

What are the drawbacks?

Regards

Burak

> Hi Luke
>
> You should be able to run the generator directly off the Waste Oil
> (Veggie).
> It has been done in cars for years.
> The things you need to do are:
>   1)  Filter the oil (10 microns or less)
>   2)  Per heat the oil to 150+ degrees F before entering the
> injector pump.
>   This is normally done with waste heat from the engine.
> Easy to do on a water cooled engine.
>   3)  Start and Stop the generator on Diesel. (5-10min
> shutdown cycle)
>   4)  If it is really cold you may need to heat the oil tank
> to get the oil to flow/pump.
>   The Veggie oil will solidify at low temperatures,
> especially if there are animal fats mixed in. (IE: deep fryer waist)
>
> If you want to switch over faster when you start, then a electric
> preheat may be in order.
>
> Here are a few links to car conversions.
> http://www.greasel.com
> http://www.greasecar.com
>
> Have fun
> Mark
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of WM LUKE MATHISEN
> Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 11:39 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [Biofuel] Set up help
>
>
> Hello out there in biofuel land!
>
> I live in Montana near Missoula, off the grid, our primary energy source
> is solar and our backup is a recently acquired diesel generator, to be
> precise a 7500 watt Lister Petter, prior to that we used a converted
> propane generator.  We are very happy with the switch to diesel (it
> reduced our fuel costs by 2/3rds).  Every week I go into Missoula (I am
> an accountant) and work at a restaurant.  The restaurant pays $25 per
> month to get rid of their used waste oil.  I could very easily pick up
> waste oil from that restaurant (and other restaurants) and bring it back
> to make biodiesel for my generator.  My concerns are fuel quality so I
> don't end up damaging my generator and attracting bears (we had 2 house
> break-ins last fall).  I am looking at producing 50-100 gals per month
> in the winter (sometimes we will go two weeks or more with no direct
> sunlight, or "no solar-days" as I call them) and half that in the
> summer.  What will my startup costs be?  How much space will I need, for
> production and storage? How much time will I need to spend in production
> once it is set up?
>
> I am currently in the process of planning a enclosure for the generator
> and it seemed to make since to include space for making and storing the
> biodisel.
>
> Can someone point me in the right direction?
>
> Luke
>>From the wild hills of Montana
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RE: [Biofuel] Sorel Boots

[burak-l]

Good old sorrel boats are used daily all around the year in the area called
U.P.

That is Upper Peninsula Michigan.

Those things last forever Good old memories..

Burak

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
Phillip Wolfe
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 9:28 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Sorel Boots


Keith,

I would like to find out more about the catalog you
mentioned.

Thanks,

P.Wolfe
--- Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi Marna, Phillip and all
>
> There's one company, I think doing e-commerce, that
> has tried to
> source all their goods as strictly Made in the USA,
> and they've had a
> lot of difficulty, but have succeeded in offering a
> good catalog.
> I'll try to find the article I received about them.
>
> Where it really happens is in local markets, like
> CSAs for food for
> instance, many varieties, not just food.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Keith
>
>
> >A bit off topic, but, Phillip wrote:
> >
> >< made.>>
> >
> >No kidding!  I am from Portland, and did not ever
> hear of Sorel's until I
> >moved to the nether regions of Idaho Falls, Idaho
> (cold), just South of
> >Butte, Montana (frickin' cold) and just East of
> Jackson Hole, Wy (great
> >skiing).  Anyway, my impression was that Sorel's
> were Canadian.  So I did
> >some quick research and found out that Sorel's were
> founded indeed by a
> >Canadian Company and was only recently aquired by
> Columbia Sports (which is
> >indeed a Portland Company).  So I am wondering if
> US made Sorel's are really
> >US made or if they are made in the US owned
> Mariana's Islands (read slave
> >labor from Indonesia) as were (and maybe still are)
> US MADE manufactured
> >goods sold in Nordstrom's (based on an expose in
> the Seattle Weekly).
> >
> >Marna
>
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which diesel WAS [Biofuel] Fiat Palio?

[burak-l]

Hello all,
Maybe this was discussed before, but would it be possible for the list
members to share information about which diesel cars they have used with
bio-diesel?
This may be helpfull for the ones who are trying locate a diesel vehicle
locally.

Regards

Burak Cedetas

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
Raunak Singh Ahluwalia
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 4:11 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Fiat Palio?



Craig,
I'm in India. Was actually wondering about 100% BD usage. Have been dredging
the net for info, and quite a few sites indicate that all BD used
commercially is actually a 25/75 Blend, the larger fraction being petroleum
dieselso, its got me a bit confused.
Cheers,

Rsa

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Emmerick, Craig
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 4:38 PM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Fiat Palio?

Hi Raunak
As far as I can gather, biodiesel works on most modern diesel motors.
Where are you in RSA? P.E. man me.



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[Biofuel] Re: Information on Sawdust processing

[burak-l]

The process I was involved was done in an industrial wood panel plant. We 
have done the automation and electrical works for it.
Most of the machinery was built here beside the main press which was 
imported.  Result was a serious plant.

Basic steps of the process were;
- Drying the wood chip,
- Separating the wod chip (fine and coarse) and storing it,
- Preparing the glue in batch process
- Mixing the glue with wood chip
- Laying the mixture in 3 layers (fine - coarse - fine)
- Pressing the layer with heat
- Cutting in to dimensions needed. 

I can try to get some mechanical details and find some pictures. But I need 
time.  (And you will need an investor to do such a plant.) 

What I would suggest is to get some information about the saw dust in terms 
of phsyicall dimension, quantity and more.  If there is such a big timber 
industry, it will make a business sense to put a part,cle board plant to 
make use of not only saw dust but also the wood which is not valuable as 
timber. 

Now (reading your e-mail one more time) if you want to do this as a project 
which will be realized by women please consider the process steps above. 
These are the basic steps to make panels. How to do it with simple labour 
and equipment is a good question.
Best of lucks 


Burak
İstanbul /Turkiye 




NDF writes: 


Greetings from Sri Lanka,
Dear Burak Cedetas,
Thank you so much for the innovative suggestion..We are also thinking of a
similar method to make some boards. Here we plan to experiment with Latex,
using latex as a binder. We have not tried it yet. Can you be so kind to
send us the process that you are using to make the particle boards please.
It would help us to compare notes and see which is more inexpensive. On the
other hand, we are thinking of introducing, sort of a home industry through
which the people could earn an income. If people see that they could make an
income, then they will take it up. Since the target group is women and from
the low income stratum the process has to be simple and adoptable to them.
Thank you once again for your kind concern on this matter.
Upali. 


- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 2:51 PM
Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Fwd: Information on Sawdust processing 




Hello
I am new to the list (couple days).  So far I am reading and learning but

I
have some experience in the wood processing sector. 


I am not sure about the quality of the sawdust but I wouldn't dump it.  It
can be used for particle boards.  I have managed a project where we have
doen electrical work and automation for an entire particle board plant.

It

is not a cheap process but worth to look at .
Basic steps are:
- Dry the saw dust,
- Prepare the glue and mix with the saw dust
- Lay the sawdust on a conveyor belt
- Press the saw dust and heat it
- Cut into the dimensions you need. 


If the saw dust is fine enough it can be used for making MDF (medium

density
fiber board).  Which is a valuable product. 

Hope this helps. 

Regards 


Burak Cedetas
>
> >Hello Keith,
> >
> >- Original Message -
> >From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 11:12 AM
> >Subject: [Biofuel] Fwd: Information on Sawdust processing
> >
> >
> > > Greetings all
> > >
> > > I was sent this by an NGO in Sri Lanka. Any advice for them? They're
> > > not list members, but I'll forward any responses.
> >
> > > Thanks!
> >
> > > regards
> > >
> > > Keith
> > >
> > > 
> > >
> > > From: "National Development Foundation" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Subject: Information on Sawdust processing
> > > Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 23:13:12 +0600
> > >
> > > National Development Foundation
> > >
> > > 63/2, Yahampath Mawatha, Piliyandala Road, Maharagama, Sri Lanka.
> > >
> > > Tele: +(94)-011-5526679 or +(94)-011-5522776 E-mail:
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > > Monday, October 25, 2004,
> > >
> > > Journey to Forever Organisation.
> > >
> > > Dear Sir/Madam,
> > >
> > > Ours is a Non-governmental, non-profit making organisation devoted

to

> > > development through self-help development programmes. We also
> > > carryout environmental protection programmes with local communities
> > > in Sri Lanka.
> > >
> > > Recently we were informed of a long-standing problem in a suburban
> > > city, due to sawdust. There are large numbers of timber mills,
> > > carpentry workshops and woodwork centers in the area. They produce
> > > tons and tons of saw dust and dump them into the nearby lake
> > > polluting the area. Recently the government has no other

alternative,

> > > but found another dumping site and the sawdust is now dumped in this
> > > site spending large sums of money for transportation. For a
> > > developing country like ours this type of spending is unaffordable.
> >
quality
> >A 


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RE: [Biofuel] Fwd: Information on Sawdust processing

[burak-l]

Dear Luis,

I was not suggesting fuel logs.  My suggestion was to produce partcile
boards or mdf boards with the saw dust.  Of course this depends on the
phsyical measurements of the saw dust.  But to make particle board plants
take the logs breaks them apart to form particles so to speak.  In this case
since the wood is already in form of saw dust this can be used right away.
If it is a fine saw dust than a possible mdf production may be a good idea.

The glue to be used for this process I have to look for. It was a form
aldheit or similar but again I have to check with the plant we have done the
project for.

Regards

Burak

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
CONTACTOS MUNDIALES
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 3:02 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: Information on Sawdust processing


Dear Burak:

Many thanks for your interesting post.  I wonder if you could suggest which
glue formula to use for
the saw dust fuel logs.

Perhaps you could throw in some more ideas.

Very best wishes,

Luis R. Calzadilla
Contactos Mundiales USA

[EMAIL PROTECTED]




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RE: [Biofuel] Fwd: Information on Sawdust processing

[burak-l]

Hello
I am new to the list (couple days).  So far I am reading and learning but I
have some experience in the wood processing sector.

I am not sure about the quality of the sawdust but I wouldn't dump it.  It
can be used for particle boards.  I have managed a project where we have
doen electrical work and automation for an entire particle board plant.  It
is not a cheap process but worth to look at .
Basic steps are:
- Dry the saw dust,
- Prepare the glue and mix with the saw dust
- Lay the sawdust on a conveyor belt
- Press the saw dust and heat it
- Cut into the dimensions you need.

If the saw dust is fine enough it can be used for making MDF (medium density
fiber board).  Which is a valuable product.

Hope this helps.

Regards

Burak Cedetas
>
> >Hello Keith,
> >
> >- Original Message -
> >From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 11:12 AM
> >Subject: [Biofuel] Fwd: Information on Sawdust processing
> >
> >
> > > Greetings all
> > >
> > > I was sent this by an NGO in Sri Lanka. Any advice for them? They're
> > > not list members, but I'll forward any responses.
> >
> > > Thanks!
> >
> > > regards
> > >
> > > Keith
> > >
> > > 
> > >
> > > From: "National Development Foundation" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Subject: Information on Sawdust processing
> > > Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 23:13:12 +0600
> > >
> > > National Development Foundation
> > >
> > > 63/2, Yahampath Mawatha, Piliyandala Road, Maharagama, Sri Lanka.
> > >
> > > Tele: +(94)-011-5526679 or +(94)-011-5522776 E-mail:
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > > Monday, October 25, 2004,
> > >
> > > Journey to Forever Organisation.
> > >
> > > Dear Sir/Madam,
> > >
> > > Ours is a Non-governmental, non-profit making organisation devoted to
> > > development through self-help development programmes. We also
> > > carryout environmental protection programmes with local communities
> > > in Sri Lanka.
> > >
> > > Recently we were informed of a long-standing problem in a suburban
> > > city, due to sawdust. There are large numbers of timber mills,
> > > carpentry workshops and woodwork centers in the area. They produce
> > > tons and tons of saw dust and dump them into the nearby lake
> > > polluting the area. Recently the government has no other alternative,
> > > but found another dumping site and the sawdust is now dumped in this
> > > site spending large sums of money for transportation. For a
> > > developing country like ours this type of spending is unaffordable.
> >
quality
> >A

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