Re: [biofuel] Re: Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
I applaud your attempt to discredit the source rather than to make any attempt whatsoever to discredit the arguement or the premise itself. But here are some more reputable sources, irregardless of the fact that the site I linked had a number of reference sources. http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/shooting/0422nra3.shtml And here is the link of how Moore edited hestons speech entirely and spliced the sentences to create an entirely new speech. http://www.hardylaw.net/Bowlingtranscript.html He has a link on there with the actual transcript, and you can throw in BFC if you want to check Moore's new version. And here is another anti-Moore link corraborating the Flint incident. I don't need a source for that though, slow down your DVD player and do it frame by frame. Moore puts together a sequence of scenes to make it look like Heston is in Flint immediately after the death of the little girl. He actually says Just as he did after the Columbine shooting, Charlton Heston showed up in Flint, to have a big pro-gun rally. But, from: http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=859 When I spoke to Moore last week, he confirmed Hardyâs point about the date of the speech, but angrily denied the allegation that he had misled viewers. Moore actually admits the date was off. How does he get off saying he didn't try to mislead people. As for the civilian casualties, there are only a reported maximum of about 11,300 according to http://www.iraqbodycount.net Most of the deaths are by cluster bombs and the initial missile attacks. But go check out the database, those suicide and car bombers are killing more Iraqi's than americans. When you kill 30-100 people per bomb trying to get back at the American's, your seriously hurting your own people. Given the 325,000 killed in Vietnam and lets not forget the millions from WWII. I do not condone the civilian deaths, and I think we still have a long way to go, but war does have casualties, and I think there were significant improvements so far. Randall Sanborn [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Re: Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
I'm also from Michigan, doesn't mean I blindly accept the opinion of everyone who speaks here. The facts are true. Michael Moore is meticulous in making sure he doesn't say anything that is explicitly false. Instead, he uses cheap camera tricks and clever sequences to give a very clear picture of what he is trying to say without ever actually implicating himself. Just a few examples from Bowling from Columbine because its been thoroughly analyzed numerous times. Firstly, the gun from the bank. http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/bowlingforcolumbine/scenes/bank.htm He edits the seen to make it appear like he walked in wrote his name down and got a gun. This is supposed to show how easy it is to get a gun. This is a horrible example because the same process is used here as any gun shop would use. He neglects to show the fact that the clerk then took his ID and ran it through I believe its an FBI? database. But it certainly looks like America is handing out guns to anyone. If I remember correctly from read the process actually took closer to an hour and a half. Weak example yes, but none-the-less if shown honestly it would do nothing to promote Moore's arguement that any old fool can get a gun in the way he described. The requirements for getting that gun from the bank were just as stringent as getting it from any other registered gun shop. If he wants to analyze that, then fine, I support it. Maybe it is too easy to get a gun, I'm not here to offer an opinion on it, but the bank scene is only an example of the same process that would happen in any other legal weapon transaction. I think the NRA bashes are more incriminating of Moore's deceptive style. He spends quite a while dehumanizing the NRA and especially Mr. Heston. I had a very good friend see this movie and tell me Heston and the NRA were a bunch of jerks for jumping up to hold rallies right after the killings in Flint and Columbine. I must say, the 'evidence' in the movie was compelling. But some other people slowed down the feeds and picked through the internet. The 'rally' in Flint wasn't actually a Rally, Heston showed up to support Bush on his campaign, and it was 7 months after the incident. The movie shows a headline that says, 48 hours after Kayla Rolland is pronounced dead either right before or right after the Heston clip. It insinuates the meeting was 48 hours after, and there is no way its not intentional. But the headline continues on to say something about Clinton making a statement about the incident and is completely unrelated to the NRA. http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/bowlingforcolumbine/scenes/hestonrally2.htm He also uses the NRA meeting in Colorado right after the Columbine shootings as further ammo against the NRA. The video clips he shows of Heston are actually from another rally, and he fails to mention that the NRA cancelled most all of its other activities aside from the vote that by law is mandatory. I believe its a non-profit law to vote officials or something else similar. Irregardless the NRA had to have its meeting, which it did, but the NRA did nothing like what Moore shows. Frankly, I don't know what the whole NRA bash accomplished for his argument, but his entire basis against the NRA is made up. It looks more like he has a vendetta against the NRA and wants to publish it. So, quite frankly, I don't trust the guy, or most of what he says. He has been explicitly decpetive in BFC. He has something compelling with the Iraq war, but just like most of the media, its entirely one-sided. And his theory on the Saudi connection and the plot with the Bushes to intentionally start a war is pretty weak. Its more an assertion using almost nothing. I think his smoking gun is a connection in the Carlyle group, which is a large investing firm. I don't know about you guys, but I don't know the other stockholders of the companies I invest in, much less socialize and plot to take over the world with them. I'm really anxious to see what little camera tricks he threw into this one when it comes out on DVD. Randall Sanborn -- Original message -- Look pal, speaking as one of Mike's Michigan homeboys, you and I are gonna throw down. When Mike says, The facts are true, the opinions are mine, he means it. If you have a mental disorder that distorts your analytical skills to the point where you can't tell fact from opinion, then you really should only read Mike's books or watch his films under the supervision of a trained mental health specialist. Until you're ready to seek mental health services, I suggest you go back to your flock of ostriches and stick your head back in the sands of the mainstream media informational wasteland. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM
Re: [biofuel] Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
I hope no voters base their vote on anything that Michael Moore writes or films. All of his premises and arguements are based on skewed data and emotion. He really has a very poor arguement. Its very sad that people would take something, written by someone with severe political motivations and uses human emotions to get a reaction in stead of logic, as truth and fact. Do us all a favor, do your own research, otherwise, don't vote. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
He could site 500 works for all I care, it doesn't mean he used the information accurately or in context. He is not a source of information, he is a source of entertainment. He slants information to make his point, and his point alone. He is like any other media outlet, its a lot easier to twist the facts to your point than to properly interpert the facts and come up with the truth. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
I would certainly like to hear what you would have done in that situation. If he had jumped up and ran out of the room he would have caused panic. Of course then everyone on the left would say he showed bad form. If he made a statement right then and there, he would be speaking on almost no information. There was nothing he could do from where he was, there was nothing anyone could do. Perhaps he should have run to the local phone booth switched outfits and flown out to save the day, but aside from that, everyone was entirely helpless. Honestly, I don't think I'll be voting for Bush, but I don't think he did anything wrong before, during and the period after, 9/11. I don't think anyone would have, or could have done anything better without a seer to predict the future. My problems lie with his justifications for the Iraq war, buts thats another issue entirely. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] 'Fahrenheit 9/11' ban?
Extremely unlikely. They are using the corporate sponsor thing to try and get adverts banned. I believe there is mention of a similar situation in the past where adverts for non-election related items that involved candidates were allowed. ALthough they did also make networks halt the playing of Arnold Swartzenager movies in California during their re-elections. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
I understand the fact that this is propeganda. But, being that it is controversial, and that it does have some flaws, there is a very good reason to have public discussion about/against/for it. The man is deliberately trying to sway the vote to get Bush out of office with this movie. And given the loose interpertation of fact and the fact that people are taking it as a documentary, I think there is very good reason for public outcry against it. Sorry to make the comparison, but, I would speak out against Nazi progapaganda if I thought that it was not well supported, and in that case even if it was well supported. Just because it is made as propaganda does not mean it shouldn't be argued against. In fact, given its nature, it should be focused on and made clear to everyone that it is not documentarial. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Congress Overwhelmingly Endorses Ariel Sharon's Annexation Plans
Any way we can set up a second mail list so the biofuel list can be for biofuel? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Newbie Questions - Cold Weather
Fantastic, thats exactly what I was looking for. I might have a little trouble if we get hit with some of the really nasty stuff, but a little mix should help. Which wasn't mentioned very much in the article. Do you guys recommend a Fossil Diesel mix, or the kerosene mix? I've read that the kerosene mix is more effective, but I'm still wondering whether it will provide adverse results. Second, I've also read that seperating a winter and summer mix through the process of heating and cooling to seperate the liquid and gel will lower the cetane rating. How dramatic is this lower rating? Should I then turn my injection timing back up by another 2-3 degrees? Thanks, Randall Sanborn [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol Condensor plans
Before you read further, I must start by apologizing for anything I say. I've never made a batch of BD or anything to that nature. But I figured I'd offer my own idea and plan to make a condenser. Here is a link to my lovely drawing: http://www.agrath.com/condenser.bmp Color coded for ease of use. Let me explain it. The red is the stuff we trying to get methanol out of. We heat that to the boiling point of methanol (150?). Then, the methanol turns into a gas and should travel up into the white funnel. This funnels the gas into the blue condenser. I personally would like to use a piece of 1 or 2 inch copper pipe with either a quarter inch piece of copper coiled around it to provide fresh water for cooling, and or one of those flexible steel tubes to do the same thing. The black and green part is simply the container that the methanol will drop into. Like I said, I really have no clue, but that is similar to what I've seen in other condensers. There is another one in which the condenser is submerged in water, I think this would work fine as well. I'm not exactly sure on the weight of methanol gas, so I'm not sure if it will rise to meet the condesner in my drawing, but I think it would. You would also need some way to keep cool water running through that coil, a small pump in a small tub of water should suffice though. Once again, just my silly ramblings. Randall Sanborn [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
