[Biofuel] Bioheating oil (was disolving lye)
I am icorrect in understanding you can use a differnt (easier?) recipe for heating oil? I'm looking into biodiesel for home heating but have yet to come across anything on the net. If there is a difference can someone point out some references? I need to convince the wife for the initial investment. Mike Luich Salem, NHOn 10/2/05, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Tom I've been wondering about the problems one might encountertrying to dissolve the lye when making bioheating oil. If I have itright, one would dissolve the same amount of lye as if making biodiesel, but using only half the methanol.One-quarter the methanol. The example given uses 3 litres of methanolfor 60 litres of oil, that's 5% methanol, with the titration amountof lye (titration plus the basic 3.5 g/l for virgin oil). It getshot, of course, but not enough to frighten. We use KOH, and quitenice oil, no problem even though the proportion of KOH to methanol ishigh.You also use a much higher proportion of lye to methanol in the acid-base process than in the single-stage base process, two-thirdshigher, also no problem.Well worth the effort if you can produce low cost heating fuelw/o having to wash it unless you have rubber parts in your furnace, then you might have to wash it, though there can't be much free methanol in it, if any.I'm not sure how easy it is to wash it, I've never tried.Best wishesKeithTom - Original Message -From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Ian Theresa SimsTo: mailto: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgBiofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 3:24 AMSubject: [Biofuel] disolving lyeHi all Most of the recipe's on JtF describe hours to dissolved the lye inmethanol. Mine usually takes about 20 minute to half an hour. I usetranslucent bottles and check for settled lye. Is there something I am missing? When I mix it I poor the Lye into the methanol and swirlit for a minute or two , leave it for ten minutes or so, swirl somemore until its all gone. The BD I make has clean seperation and is easy to wash. The same goes for either a 1L or 30 L batch.CheersIan___Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bioheating Oil
I haven't read the article in particular, but I'm going to give my opinion about what I have read. Biodiesel, even if half or partially converted, I assume would be ok to burn in a heating system. Only one problem that I know of; natural rubber parts in any pumps will break down in time with Biodieseland cause leaks or failure. So, the fix for that will be parts made of viton rubber or any other synthetic product. Also, if you burn WVO in a forced air furnace, the high temperatures will burn the glycerin in the oil, while ina boiler system the glycerin won't get hot enough to burn. Anyway, I hope that helps. Personally, I'm looking at putting Biodiesel into an old oil fired water heater. I want to heat my workshop with hot water. MikaThomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have had some success in making biodiesel,am interested in bioheating oil as described at JtF. Ittells how to make a 60L batch. I have a question about the amount of lye used. "Use the amount of lye indicated by titration." "Using the standard amount of lye for 60L " 1. Does this mean use: Amount of lye from titration + 3.5g lye/L of oil? (as in biodiesel production) Since the process converts less of the oil into biodiesel, with much unconverted glycerides,bioheating oil sounds like a mix of biodiesel and WVO with the free fatty acids removed. 2. Will WVO burn in waste oil heaters designed to burn used crankcase oil? If not, would the addition of biodiesel to the WVO work? If so, can anyone suggest a ratio to try? (My impression is that bioheating oil is less than 50% biodiesel.) 3. Any problems if we mix bioheating oil with the used crankcase oil? I am experimenting with biodiesel in with my heating oil and burning it in my own furnace, but it's not my waste oil burner and I tend to be a bit more cautious with other people's stuff. Tom___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bioheating Oil
Based on the info on JtF, it looks almost as if bioheating oil hasn't been tested much (probably a false assumption on my part). Anyone here burning it? How could I tell if it will work in my furnace without potentially gumming up the works? If appears to me that the advantages of bioheating oil over biodiesel are fewer inputs (cheaper) and a slightly simplified process. Is that correct? I am in the process of building my biodiesel processor, would there be any pitfalls of processing bioheating oil and biodiesel in the same processor? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bioheating Oil
Hi Mika and all Mika wrotePersonally, I'm looking at putting Biodiesel into an old oil fired water heater. I want to heat my workshop with hot water. What have you found out about oil fired hot water heaters? I have scanned the JTF site and archives and not seen too much info on this. Brian Rodgers ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bioheating Oil
Hello Ken Based on the info on JtF, it looks almost as if bioheating oil hasn't been tested much (probably a false assumption on my part). It's been well-tested in what we say it's been tested in, mainly this: Journey to Forever's forced-air biofuel heater http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/me9.html Anyone here burning it? How could I tell if it will work in my furnace without potentially gumming up the works? Depends on the furnace, as with biodiesel. Try it, keep a close eye on it, especially at first, if you start to have problems then stop. It says: There's little or no free methanol left so it should be safe if you want to use it in the type of burner or furnace that has rubber pipes and seals, but we haven't tried that and it might be wise to change the rubber parts for resistant material anyway. Some burners are more sensitive to viscosity than others. Biodiesel is more viscous than petroleum heating oil, and bioheating oil is more viscous than biodiesel, so if biodiesel doesn't work in your furnace then bioheating oil won't either, though in both cases pre-heating the oil might work. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_heaters.html#bioheat Heaters, burners and stoves If appears to me that the advantages of bioheating oil over biodiesel are fewer inputs (cheaper) and a slightly simplified process. More than slightly, especially since you're not trying to pass any quality tests. Is that correct? More or less. Not inconsiderable advantages, IMHO. I am in the process of building my biodiesel processor, would there be any pitfalls of processing bioheating oil and biodiesel in the same processor? What pitfalls could there be? Bioheating oil uses the same process and the same chemicals. Best wishes Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bioheating Oil
On 9/6/05, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's been well-tested in what we say it's been tested in, mainly this:Journey to Forever's forced-air biofuel heater http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/me9.html This much I knew, what I'm not sure of is the number of other burners its been tested in. We have a 250 or 275 gallon tank for our heating oil. It could get real messy (and expensive) if I needed drain it. I'm also not sure that I could fix my furnace rapidly enough if I needed to. I guess the risk is reduced a bit when mixed with petro heating oil. No? Depends on the furnace, as with biodiesel. Try it, keep a close eyeon it, especially at first, if you start to have problems then stop. Like I said, this concerns me a bit. It says:There's little or no free methanol left so it should be safe if you want to use it in the type of burner or furnace that has rubber pipesand seals, but we haven't tried that and it might be wise to changethe rubber parts for resistant material anyway.Some burners are more sensitive to viscosity than others. Biodiesel is more viscous than petroleum heating oil, and bioheating oil ismore viscous than biodiesel, so if biodiesel doesn't work in yourfurnace then bioheating oil won't either, though in both casespre-heating the oil might work. I caught all of this. What do you do when the furnace won't fire up though? If appears to me that the advantages of bioheating oil overbiodiesel are fewer inputs (cheaper) and a slightly simplified process.More than slightly, especially since you're not trying to pass anyquality tests.Is that correct?More or less. Not inconsiderable advantages, IMHO. Not at all, I gotta make sure I'm understanding it all correctly before jumpin' in. I am in the process of building my biodiesel processor, would therebe any pitfalls of processing bioheating oil and biodiesel in the same processor?What pitfalls could there be? Bioheating oil uses the same processand the same chemicals. I truly suspected no problems but, I'm not one of the many experts on this topic. Always better safe than sorry. Best wishesKeith Take care, Ken ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Bioheating Oil
I have had some success in making biodiesel,am interested in bioheating oil as described at JtF. Ittells how to make a 60L batch. I have a question about the amount of lye used. "Use the amount of lye indicated by titration." "Using the standard amount of lye for 60L " 1. Does this mean use: Amount of lye from titration + 3.5g lye/L of oil? (as in biodiesel production) Since the process converts less of the oil into biodiesel, with much unconverted glycerides,bioheating oil sounds like a mix of biodiesel and WVO with the free fatty acids removed. 2. Will WVO burn in waste oil heaters designed to burn used crankcase oil? If not, would the addition of biodiesel to the WVO work? If so, can anyone suggest a ratio to try? (My impression is that bioheating oil is less than 50% biodiesel.) 3. Any problems if we mix bioheating oil with the used crankcase oil? I am experimenting with biodiesel in with my heating oil and burning it in my own furnace, but it's not my waste oil burner and I tend to be a bit more cautious with other people's stuff. Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bioheating Oil
Hello Tom I have had some success in making biodiesel, am interested in bioheating oil as described at JtF. It tells how to make a 60L batch. I have a question about the amount of lye used. Use the amount of lye indicated by titration. Using the standard amount of lye for 60L 1. Does this mean use: Amount of lye from titration + 3.5g lye/L of oil? (as in biodiesel production) Where it says Use... the amount of lye indicated by titration the word titration is linked to the basic titration instructions where it says: Take the number of millilitres of 0.1% lye solution you used and add 3.5. This is the number of grams of lye you'll need per litre of oil. Since the process converts less of the oil into biodiesel, with much unconverted glycerides, bioheating oil sounds like a mix of biodiesel and WVO with the free fatty acids removed. Some unconverted and partly converted glycerides left, quite a lot glycerine removed but less than with fuel-grade biodiesel, most or nearly all FFA removed. It is not a mix of biodiesel and WVO. 2. Will WVO burn in waste oil heaters designed to burn used crankcase oil? Did you read this? http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/me9.html Journey to Forever's forced-air biofuel heater If not, would the addition of biodiesel to the WVO work? Yes, but as explained in the link above, it's much more expensive that way and bioheating oil is less trouble to make. If so, can anyone suggest a ratio to try? (My impression is that bioheating oil is less than 50% biodiesel.) Not so, it's not a mix. It splits, it's biodiesel, but with a poor conversion ratio. Why don't you make some? That'll give you a much better impression. It bears no resemblance to WVO. 3. Any problems if we mix bioheating oil with the used crankcase oil? We're not interested in burning used crankcase oil and we have no experience of it, but we've been working with a bunch of people who use it. Commercially available waste oil heaters burn at high temperatures, engines run hotter than they used to and lube oil has additives to keep it from burning. It would be surprising if they couldn't handle bioheating oil, or WVO. Best wishes Keith I am experimenting with biodiesel in with my heating oil and burning it in my own furnace, but it's not my waste oil burner and I tend to be a bit more cautious with other people's stuff. Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
