[Biofuel] Sustainable Subsoiler and Other Questions
Keith, I've recently bought 10 acres in France and am trying to plan an integrated farm (as well as get my largely irrelevant French farming qualifications required to be a farmer here). Anyway, one of my problems is that I have very compacted clay and need to use a subsoiler. I don't want to invest in a tractor. I saw that you used one on the farm in Japan. Was it a tractor-pulled one or using some other form of energy? Do non-tractor driven subsoilers even exist? I haven't been able to find any information on them, I was considering driving posts into the ground and pulling a subsoiler to the post using an engine fixed to the post and a very strong cord of some sort (it seems potentially dangerous). Has anybody looked into such alternative arrangements? Another question. I've been wondering what alternatives exist for feeding chickens. I think you were wondering about whether potatoes and their peelings could do the job. How did this go? I've planted fifteen chestnut trees at 10-metre spacing, as these seem to have the right protein-carbohydrate balance for poultry. Before I go and plant any more, I would like to verify their suitability as a food source for poultry. Anyone? If not, I guess we could eat them ourselves. I may use wood pyrolysis for running an old tractor if I actually do end up needing a tractor. Has anyone here actually managed it? Is the power really only 1/3 of what the engine would produce using petrol (or alcohol)? Does anyone here have any real-world experience of using this expedient technology? Thanks for the inspiring work (and answering the questions that I'm only just starting to ask myself), David _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Sustainable Subsoiler and Other Questions
Just go down the road to one of your neighbors and ask if they have a ripper plow. Then ask to see if a bio diesel blend fuel is commercially available. It takes a large tractor to pull a ripper. The neighbor will either have the equipment or know of somebody locally that does. When you go approach that equipment owner it will be your opportunity to suggest an alternate fuel to burn when he does the work. I can guarantee that he will not be open to any fuel that will alter the validity of his equipment warranty. Considering weather, and ambient temperatures, He is going to want to use a winter blended diesel fuel if the work is going to be done this close to winter. If the ground isn't already frozen to a depth of 3 feet (one meter) like it is here, you may have to wait until spring to have the work done. It is easier (and safer) to hire it done than to attempt to do something makeshift like the rope and pulley system suggested. How will you manage to get along if a farm accident delivers a life changing broken bone or paralysis event to you or your helper? I can remember going to elementary school in the 60's and always see that one farm boy in every class that was missing fingers or something worse. Farm Safety is a huge concern. After you get the 10 acres soil prepped, you can land steward your property as you see fit. It is going to take less than 3 hours to rip 10 acres when using modern equipment. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Sustainable Subsoiler and Other Questions
David Penfold a écrit : > Keith, > > I've recently bought 10 acres in France and am trying to plan an integrated > farm (as well as get my largely irrelevant French farming qualifications > required to be a farmer here). > > Anyway, one of my problems is that I have very compacted clay and need to use > a subsoiler. I don't want to invest in a tractor. I saw that you used one on > the farm in Japan. Was it a tractor-pulled one or using some other form of > energy? Do non-tractor driven subsoilers even exist? I haven't been able to > find any information on them, I was considering driving posts into the ground > and pulling a subsoiler to the post using an engine fixed to the post and a > very strong cord of some sort (it seems potentially dangerous). Has anybody > looked into such alternative arrangements? > > Another question. I've been wondering what alternatives exist for feeding > chickens. I think you were wondering about whether potatoes and their > peelings could do the job. How did this go? I've planted fifteen chestnut > trees at 10-metre spacing, as these seem to have the right > protein-carbohydrate balance for poultry. Before I go and plant any more, I > would like to verify their suitability as a food source for poultry. Anyone? > If not, I guess we could eat them ourselves. > > I may use wood pyrolysis for running an old tractor if I actually do end up > needing a tractor. Has anyone here actually managed it? Is the power really > only 1/3 of what the engine would produce using petrol (or alcohol)? Does > anyone here have any real-world experience of using this expedient technology? > > Thanks for the inspiring work (and answering the questions that I'm only just > starting to ask myself), > > David Bonjour, Try to contact the local "CUMA" (Coopérative d'Utilisation de Machines Agricoles). It's a place where you can hire modern tools at very low prices, and meet people who could help and give you pieces of advices. I'm not a farmer but use it, in the name of a friend of mine, farmer himself. The custom of mutual help is still alive in many rural areas. A farmer can help you in charge for you to help him back another time. You also can find helpfull and friendly people in associations like http://www.agriculture-durable.org/ (for professionals, the english version is still under construction) Many sites and association for non professionnals rural people. Where are you settling in France ? frantz, in Vendée near Nantes (Atlantic coast) - France ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Sustainable Subsoiler and Other Questions
Hi David >Thanks for the inspiring work (and answering the questions that I'm only just starting to ask myself), You're most welcome, thanks for saying so. >Keith, > >I've recently bought 10 acres in France Very nice too, good for you. Is this a long-term plan coming to fruition at last or something more recent? Where in France, Mediterranean or north? Anyway what's their excuse for the clay pan, they're not rice farmers there are they? :-) Rice farmers or not, in the old days Chinese village farmers didn't usually own their land, some Manchu mandarin probably owned it, but the farmer owned the topsoil, the landlord only owned the subsoil. There've been a few times when I've wanted to argue about that with landlords in various parts of the world, but somehow I didn't think I'd win. Sorry, just thinking you should have got a price reduction for the clay pan on the grounds that the landowner hadn't maintained his bit very well. >and am trying to plan an integrated farm (as well as get my largely irrelevant French farming qualifications required to be a farmer here). > >Anyway, one of my problems is that I have very compacted clay and need to use a subsoiler. I don't want to invest in a tractor. I saw that you used one on the farm in Japan. Was it a tractor-pulled one or using some other form of energy? Do non-tractor driven subsoilers even exist? I haven't been able to find any information on them, I was considering driving posts into the ground and pulling a subsoiler to the post using an engine fixed to the post and a very strong cord of some sort (it seems potentially dangerous). Has anybody looked into such alternative arrangements? I rather agree with Randy about using posts, though I think there used to be such things long ago, with ploughs and subsoilers and so on dragged to and fro across fields by a large stationary steam engine, using cables and posts IIRC. But then there's this: http://www.iirr.org/saem/images/page132a.JPG >From here: http://www.iirr.org/saem/page131-133.htm International Institute of Rural Reconstruction (Which is part of this: http://www.iirr.org/book.htm Sustainable Agriculture Extension Manual) IIRR's Arusha subsoiler - "At least four strong oxen are needed to pull the sub-soiler." It's one of the reasons I decided on subsoiling here, anyone can do it. The subsoiler itself is quite simple, a local blacksmith or workshop could make them. The other option was growing the soil down from the top through the claypan using deep-rooting plants and "weeds", and include deep-rooters anyway after the subsoiling, but just using the roots without the subsoiler takes at least a season longer and we didn't have the time to spare. Anyway I'd done it that way before, and it worked well each time, but I hadn't tried subsoiling, and I needed to compare the two ways. Modern subsoilers are big with multiple blades making parallel cuts, it needs a strong tractor, which is heavy, which doesn't make much sense to me on a compacted soil you're trying to fix. Here, a farmer friend named Ashida-san in another town not far away had a neighbour who had a subsoiler, with a single straight deep blade, quite similar to the Arusha model, but made for a tractor. So he borrowed it, put it on his tractor, put them both on his truck, put his wife in the passenger seat and came visiting. He did the job in an hour. His tractor was 30 hp, our tractor was only 15 hp, great for most things but, as everyone here advised, not strong enough for a subsoiler. Anyway we hadn't used the tractor yet (it came with the farm), it hadn't run for years and the tyres were flat. Both tractors are quite light, what Americans call "small utility tractors", but Ashida-san's 30hp tractor was only just fitted between the sheds to get onto the field. Ten acres isn't very big (a lot bigger than our postage-stamp here though!). Try for a single-blade subsoiler and a light tractor, maybe they're available for hire, or for borrowing. Failing that, maybe four strong oxen (or water buffalo, better), or some of those massive French or Belgian horses they use for dragging tree trunks out of forests, they'd manage it I'm sure. Or whatever's available - there must be subsoilers for small farms in France. >Another question. I've been wondering what alternatives exist for feeding chickens. I think you were wondering about whether potatoes and their peelings could do the job. How did this go? Geese eat raw potatoes as if they're apples, they love them. Lots of fun for all feeding geese raw potatoes by hand. Muscovy ducks, well. When they were growing up last year they really liked potatoes, but they wouldn't eat them raw. This year they don't mind eating them raw, but not too many, they'll eat a whole lot more if you boil them. Probably they like it both ways. Chickens won't eat raw potatoes, it has to be boiled, and they like them a lot. It's not too much trouble boiling the potatoes, no need to clean them, just boil them as-
Re: [Biofuel] Sustainable Subsoiler and Other Questions
[EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : > Hi David > > >> Thanks for the inspiring work (and answering the questions that I'm only >> > just starting to ask myself), > > You're most welcome, thanks for saying so. > > >> Keith, >> >> I've recently bought 10 acres in France >> > > Very nice too, good for you. Is this a long-term plan coming to fruition > at last or something more recent? > > Where in France, Mediterranean or north? Anyway what's their excuse for > the clay pan, they're not rice farmers there are they? :-) > There ARE rice farmers in Camargue (Rhone river delta) : http://www.rizdecamargue.com/ > Rice farmers or not, in the old days Chinese village farmers didn't > usually own their land, some Manchu mandarin probably owned it, but the > farmer owned the topsoil, the landlord only owned the subsoil. > French law : people can own the soil but french state always owns the subsoil (...) What's about tryin' horse power ? http://www.fectu.org/index.htm http://www.carthorsemachinery.com/index.html http://www.animaltraction.net/materielTA.htm#T%EF%BF%BDl%EF%BF%BDcharger%20des%20chapitres http://www.prommata.org/ ... frantz ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Sustainable Subsoiler and Other Questions
Hi David,Keith, if got an older Farmbook from Germany,there they show a Chickenstall on an old Heywagon.The Floor of it is done with a metalkind of Grill,so the Chickenwagon stays mostly clean. The Chickenwagon is parked on a pasture and from time to time moved,so the Manure is spread over the pasture.The Chickens feed on the Grassland and need little other food complementary. Fritz -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20071217/0806175c/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Sustainable Subsoiler and Other Questions
Within the last two decades I have seen (it might have been in the New Scientist a few years ago) a photo and brief description of a cable plow linked to a post on which was mounted a small gasoline engine, I think on the order of 2 hp or so, certainly easily liftable. I think it was experimental at the time. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada David wrote: >> Anyway, one of my problems is that I have very compacted clay and need to >> use a subsoiler. I don't want to invest in a tractor. I saw that you used >> one on the farm in Japan. Was it a tractor-pulled one or using some other > > form of energy? Do non-tractor driven subsoilers even exist? I haven't >>been able to find any information on them, I was considering driving >> posts into the ground and pulling a subsoiler to the post using an engine >> fixed to the post and a very strong cord of some sort (it seems >> potentially dangerous). Has anybody looked into such alternative >> arrangements? Keith wrote > > I rather agree with Randy about using posts, though I think there used to > be such things long ago, with ploughs and subsoilers and so on dragged to > and fro across fields by a large stationary steam engine, using cables and > posts IIRC. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
