Re: [Biofuel] turbocharged vs supercharged diesels
But what about the Brown-Boveri 'Supercharger'?? It uses the gas movement of the exhaust to 'supercharge' the inlet charge. I had one of these fitted (standard) to a Mazda 626 Diesel. They were amazing: great grunt down low: exactly where you need it. (I could go around a tight round-a-bout in top gear at 1000 revs, then accelerate cleanly away (albeit gently: but suffering none of the turbo problems I find with the current Peugeot 405 diesel.) regards Doug PS: which car do I prefer? The Pug due to its great driveability! The Mazda was an easier car to drive though, due to the engine flexibility. On Thursday 22 September 2005 6:00, Chris lloyd wrote: I have no problem with turbodiesels, just wondering why that design won out over supercharging. A supercharger can use up to 20bhp of an engines output and turbos are cheaper to make. Chris. Wessex Ferret Club www.wessexferretclub.co.uk ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] turbocharged vs supercharged diesels
Good point Keith... Now that I am back on shore, I am looking for the pictures of the big block and small blocks that I have rebuilt, Robert. Anyhoo, I am looking for the old "wind-up" flashlights and little gadgets of that sort. Anyone know of where (a website) to find these? Thanks TKKeith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyway, I am sorry if I have cause hate and discontent.I think you're misunderstanding. Calling you into accountability foraccuracy does NOT imply hatred or discontent. Please be careful withyour facts in the future!snipNo need to be careful just to inspire.Yes there is. It takes both otherwise you'll mislead. Or you've come to the wrong place.Keith AddisonHere is a clip for Smokey if you're interested: http://en.wikipedia.org/wi ki/Smokey_YunickA little bit on the carburetor for the lamen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ CarburetorEven though he liked to "cheat", I like him because of his vision and application, which is why I said "I hope this inspired someone". I find that knowledge is not gained to its full extent unless you do the research yourself and have to dig to find it. The drive! The willing to learn! I guess I spent too much time as an instructor/facilitator. No need to be careful just to inspire.robert luis rabello <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:Trevon Kollars wrote: I was being sarcastic here. Sorry. I was referring to the fact there isn't very many supercharged diesels out there. The only difference (efficiency wise) between a turbo and a supercharger is the psi and speed at which it will produce it.My supercharger is about 15% LESS efficient than a turbo. Most ofthat inefficiency is expressed as heat. Sorry, Robert, if I have insulted your intelligence in some way.No sir, you're not insulting me. Anyway, I am sorry if I have cause hate and discontent.I think you're misunderstanding. Calling you into accountability foraccuracy does NOT imply hatred or discontent. Please be careful withyour facts in the future!robert luis rabello"The Edge of Justice"Adventure for Your Mindhttp://www.newadventure.caRanger Supercharger Project Pagehttp://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] turbocharged vs supercharged diesels
Zeke Yewdall wrote: to make the diesel even better... turbo the hell out of it but do not put a supercharger on it. This was in another thread going off another direction. But my question is, why not supercharge a diesel engine. There must be some reason, because you don't seem them too often (we have a supercharged 2 cycle 2 cylinder direction injection diesel engine in a 1953 bulldozer, but aside from that I haven't seen one). Is it just that it is higher efficiency to use the heat of exhaust gases that would be wasted anyway, vs taking HP off the crankshaft to run a compressor? But there is a big advantage in materials to a supercharger in that it doesn't have to withstand the heat of the exhaust and go through cooldown after working hard to avoid seizing the bearings, and I would think engine manufacturers would sieze on any cheaper way to get more power out of a diesel (since everyone in the US thinks they are slow...). I have no problem with turbodiesels, just wondering why that design won out over supercharging. On a two stroke Detroit Diesel engine the supercharger is referred to as a scavenge pump or blower. Detroit Diesels being two stroke, simply can't run without one. The blower is used to blow out the exhaust and blow in a fresh air charge all during the same stroke. Its not even using a fraction as much hp as it does on a dragster fueler engine. Detroit Diesels use turbos to make more hp just as the other diesels do. By the way Detroit Diesels were/are used in more, different types of vehicles machinery and came in more, different configurations than any other diesel engine in the world, and no one can dispute that... John Donahue ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] turbocharged vs supercharged diesels
I have no problem with turbodiesels, just wondering why that design won out over supercharging. A supercharger can use up to 20bhp of an engines output and turbos are cheaper to make. Chris. Wessex Ferret Club www.wessexferretclub.co.uk ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] turbocharged vs supercharged diesels
I was being sarcastic here. Sorry. I was referring to the fact there isn't very many supercharged diesels out there. The only difference (efficiency wise) between a turbo and a supercharger is the psi and speed at which it will produce it. Superchargers are usually slower at speed then the turbos which can range in the 100,000 rpms. Believe it or not but they tend to heat the air more than turbos even though turbos use the hot exhaust to turn. Superchargers use the crankshaft belt and can be turned on when you need it. I guess my post has caused a lot of commotion. Sorry, Robert, if I have insulted your intelligence in some way. Smokey Yunick is almost a god in the engine world. I was talking about his attempt to get more out of his engine by experimenting with vapor carbs and engine efficiency and I guess I made you mad over it. I too have done some experimenting with the 350 and even 1.9L VW engines. There are so many things you can do to an engine to get it to perform well, it is almost unbelievable. Anyway, I am sorry if I have cause hate and discontent.Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: to make the diesel even better... turbo the hell out of it but do notput a supercharger on it.This was in another thread going off another direction. But myquestion is, why not supercharge a diesel engine. There must be somereason, because you don't seem them too often (we have a supercharged2 cycle 2 cylinder direction injection diesel engine in a 1953bulldozer, but aside from that I haven't seen one). Is it just thatit is higher efficiency to use the heat of exhaust gases that would bewasted anyway, vs taking HP off the crankshaft to run a compressor? But there is a big advantage in materials to a supercharger in that itdoesn't have to withstand the heat of the exhaust and go throughcooldown after working hard to avoid seizing the bearings, and I wouldthink engine manufacturers would sieze on any cheaper way to get morepower out of a diesel (since everyone in the US thinks they areslow...).I have no problem with turbodiesels, just wondering why that designwon out over supercharging.___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] turbocharged vs supercharged diesels
Trevon Kollars wrote: I was being sarcastic here. Sorry. I was referring to the fact there isn't very many supercharged diesels out there. The only difference (efficiency wise) between a turbo and a supercharger is the psi and speed at which it will produce it. My supercharger is about 15% LESS efficient than a turbo. Most of that inefficiency is expressed as heat. Sorry, Robert, if I have insulted your intelligence in some way. No sir, you're not insulting me. Anyway, I am sorry if I have cause hate and discontent. I think you're misunderstanding. Calling you into accountability for accuracy does NOT imply hatred or discontent. Please be careful with your facts in the future! robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] turbocharged vs supercharged diesels
Here is a clip for Smokey if you're interested: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smokey_Yunick A little bit on the carburetor for the lamen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carburetor Even though he liked to "cheat", I like him because of his vision and application, which is why I said "I hope this inspired someone". I find that knowledge is not gained to its full extent unless you do the research yourself and have to dig to find it. The drive! The willing to learn! I guess I spent too much time as an instructor/facilitator. No need to be careful just to inspire.robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Trevon Kollars wrote: I was being sarcastic here. Sorry. I was referring to the fact there isn't very many supercharged diesels out there. The only difference (efficiency wise) between a turbo and a supercharger is the psi and speed at which it will produce it. My supercharger is about 15% LESS efficient than a turbo. Most of that inefficiency is expressed as heat. Sorry, Robert, if I have insulted your intelligence in some way.No sir, you're not insulting me. Anyway, I am sorry if I have cause hate and discontent.I think you're misunderstanding. Calling you into accountability for accuracy does NOT imply hatred or discontent. Please be careful with your facts in the future!robert luis rabello"The Edge of Justice"Adventure for Your Mindhttp://www.newadventure.caRanger Supercharger Project Pagehttp://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] turbocharged vs supercharged diesels
Anyway, I am sorry if I have cause hate and discontent. I think you're misunderstanding. Calling you into accountability for accuracy does NOT imply hatred or discontent. Please be careful with your facts in the future! snip No need to be careful just to inspire. Yes there is. It takes both otherwise you'll mislead. Or you've come to the wrong place. Keith Addison Here is a clip for Smokey if you're interested: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smokey_Yunickhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wi ki/Smokey_Yunick A little bit on the carburetor for the lamen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carburetorhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Carburetor Even though he liked to cheat, I like him because of his vision and application, which is why I said I hope this inspired someone. I find that knowledge is not gained to its full extent unless you do the research yourself and have to dig to find it. The drive! The willing to learn! I guess I spent too much time as an instructor/facilitator. No need to be careful just to inspire. robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Trevon Kollars wrote: I was being sarcastic here. Sorry. I was referring to the fact there isn't very many supercharged diesels out there. The only difference (efficiency wise) between a turbo and a supercharger is the psi and speed at which it will produce it. My supercharger is about 15% LESS efficient than a turbo. Most of that inefficiency is expressed as heat. Sorry, Robert, if I have insulted your intelligence in some way. No sir, you're not insulting me. Anyway, I am sorry if I have cause hate and discontent. I think you're misunderstanding. Calling you into accountability for accuracy does NOT imply hatred or discontent. Please be careful with your facts in the future! robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] turbocharged vs supercharged diesels
to make the diesel even better... turbo the hell out of it but do not put a supercharger on it. This was in another thread going off another direction. But my question is, why not supercharge a diesel engine. There must be some reason, because you don't seem them too often (we have a supercharged 2 cycle 2 cylinder direction injection diesel engine in a 1953 bulldozer, but aside from that I haven't seen one). Is it just that it is higher efficiency to use the heat of exhaust gases that would be wasted anyway, vs taking HP off the crankshaft to run a compressor? But there is a big advantage in materials to a supercharger in that it doesn't have to withstand the heat of the exhaust and go through cooldown after working hard to avoid seizing the bearings, and I would think engine manufacturers would sieze on any cheaper way to get more power out of a diesel (since everyone in the US thinks they are slow...). I have no problem with turbodiesels, just wondering why that design won out over supercharging. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] turbocharged vs supercharged diesels
Zeke Yewdall wrote: This was in another thread going off another direction. But my question is, why not supercharge a diesel engine. There's no reason NOT to supercharge a diesel engine. The guy who wrote that comment either isn't expressing himself very well, or has no understanding of forced induction. Given the rest of the content, I suspect it might be the latter . . . There must be some reason, because you don't seem them too often (we have a supercharged 2 cycle 2 cylinder direction injection diesel engine in a 1953 bulldozer, but aside from that I haven't seen one). Is it just that it is higher efficiency to use the heat of exhaust gases that would be wasted anyway, vs taking HP off the crankshaft to run a compressor? Primarily. I think the blower in that diesel is used for exhaust scavenging, is it not? But there is a big advantage in materials to a supercharger in that it doesn't have to withstand the heat of the exhaust and go through cooldown after working hard to avoid seizing the bearings, and I would think engine manufacturers would sieze on any cheaper way to get more power out of a diesel (since everyone in the US thinks they are slow...). The lovely, twin helical coils of my blower represent highly precise machining, so I don't think the problem to which you refer necessarily boils down to materials or manufacturing. Boost in a blower is limited by pulley size, and my Eaton is about 60% efficient. The rest of the compression energy winds up as heat, making the outlet pipe too hot to touch when the engine is warm. Boost in a turbo is controlled by a boost controller, which, in some cases, can be adjusted. Perhaps it's a matter of boost pressure for the size of the application, coupled with increased efficiency that drives the industry toward turbos. Forced induction is much more difficult with a computer controlled gasoline engine than a diesel, since the gas engine has to operate at or near stoichometric air / fuel ratios. I have a LOT of experience with this now! I have no problem with turbodiesels, just wondering why that design won out over supercharging. Many of the factory superchargers from the Eaton company, like the M 90 I've installed on my truck, suffered bearing failure over time. They've since gone to a pair of bearings in the nose cone to deal with lateral forces brought on by engine torque. A well designed turbo should last the life of the engine. Because of the torque forces at play, I don't think the same can be said for a supercharger. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
