Re: [biofuel] Ethanol fuel

[Keith Addison]

Hello again Jim

>Hello Keith  As a chemist I use lots and lot of ethanol. for testing.
> And yes I have made Ethanol
>And yes I do use ethanol fuel.  I am all ways looking for new way of
> makeing bio diesel fuel.
>I have one that I have been working for about a year  I will Be willing
>to share to formula to see
>what other think.

Yes, please do that. The methods and technique that we now have 
available have come a very long way in the last three or four years 
and are highly efficient - anyone can make their own high-quality 
fuel cheaply and safely now. But small-scale biofuels technology 
development is not a job that will ever be finished, I'm sure you'll 
agree,and that's exactly what this forum is for.

All best

Keith



>Best wishes Jim Allen
>
>Keith Addison wrote:
>
> > Hello Jim
> >
> > >  Keith I'm not saying all people don't think And certainly not this
> > >group here.
> > >What I am saying is a person on the street.  9 out of 10 people that
> > >know about
> > >ethanol
> >
> > I wonder how many that would be? Or maybe how few: other posters have
> > bemoaned the woefully inadequate level of promotion and public
> > education from the Big Ethanol players like ADM.
> >
> > >if you ask them how it is made or what it made out of they will corn
> > >or grain.
> >
> > Most would probably say corn (maize). Certainly not the best crop -
> > though IMO there is no "best" crop, there are so many factors that
> > mean much more than yield does when you get down to it, ie on a real
> > farm at local level (and by "real" farm I mean a mixed farm, not a
> > monocrop disaster).
> >
> > On the other hand,  there's currently billions of bushels of surplus
> > corn in the US - the cheapest thing for Americans to burn in their
> > woodstoves. Might as well do something useful with it - and hopefully
> > it might even occur to the Big Guys eventually that there's OIL in it
> > too that they could use to make biodiesel as well as ethanol.
> >
> > But as long as ethanol and biofuels generally are treated as an
> > agriculture issue, for the benefit of agribiz at everyone else's
> > expense, and not an energy issue, I don't think we can expect any
> > sensible behaviour, at least not at that level. At the level most
> > people here operate at though it's a different matter.
> >
> > >I don't know if you heard about the new ethanol plant they
> > >are building in
> > >Kansas and all the BS hype they gave it.
> >
> > I think we did, there's quite a lot of news in the archive about
> > ethanol plants in Kansas. Is that the 25-million gallon plant in
> > Russell?
> >
> > >The people that are building
> > >it had public meetings
> > >on the plant.  They had an oil co rep that told people how they would
> > >buy the ethanol and mix it with gas.  They told the farmers how that
> > >would pay top dollar for the grain and how everybody wins.
> > >Bull what they didn't tell is the only winners will be the plant owners
> > >and the oil co becouse after
> > >the ethanol is is processed and mixed with Fuel.
> > >The spent grain  will be dryed and used in animal feed.  Like Dog food,
> > >Cat food And Cattle feed
> >
> > Especially cattlefeed I think, DDGs. They sell the CO2 as well, to
> > bottling companies mostly. DDGs make good sense with an on-farm
> > ethanol operation - with the yeast residues, it's more nutritious
> > (more protein) than the corn had in the first place. Probably no need
> > to dry it either. I think it can be a win-win situation when it's
> > small-scale, like this:
> >
> > The Butterfield Still -- This report provides details of the design,
> > construction, operation and performance of the FSB Energy Fuel
> > Alcohol Plant.
> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_butterfield.html
> >
> > Farm-scale ethanol fuel production plant -- the Gildred/Butterfield
> > Fuel Alcohol Plant, winner of the California Department of Food and
> > Agriculture's Ethanol Fuel Plant Design Competition: Floyd
> > Butterfield's on-farm still operation in full, complete with
> > blueprints. Plant Description, Plant Operating Manual, Plant
> > Performance Data, Plant Construction Guide, Recommendations,
> > Appendixes and eight blueprints of the still, cooker and operating
> > set-up. Operates continuously, 24 hours per day, 10 gallons per hour
> > of 190 proof ethanol. Includes screw press blueprints and
> > construction details. With many thanks to Garle A. Webb.
> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/Butterfield/butterfield1.html
> >
> > >just to name a few.
> >
> > I quite often quote Steve Spence saying here once that anything can
> > be done badly and in 10 years we'll probably be fighting Big Ethanol
> > tooth and nail like we fight Big Oil today. I think I got it right...
> > Oh, here it is: "I have a niggling feeling that 10 years from now,
> > the environmentalists will be fighting the ethanol industry tooth and
> > nail. anything can be done badly, and I expect the ADM's of the world
> >

Re: [biofuel] Ethanol fuel - was Re: SVO vs biodiesel - was Re: newby

[J Allen]

Hello Keith  As a chemist I use lots and lot of ethanol. for testing. 
 And yes I have made Ethanol
And yes I do use ethanol fuel.  I am all ways looking for new way of 
 makeing bio diesel fuel.
I have one that I have been working for about a year  I will Be willing 
to share to formula to see
what other think. Best wishes Jim Allen

Keith Addison wrote:

> Hello Jim
>
> >  Keith I'm not saying all people don't think And certainly not this
> >group here.
> >What I am saying is a person on the street.  9 out of 10 people that
> >know about
> >ethanol
>
> I wonder how many that would be? Or maybe how few: other posters have
> bemoaned the woefully inadequate level of promotion and public
> education from the Big Ethanol players like ADM.
>
> >if you ask them how it is made or what it made out of they will corn
> >or grain.
>
> Most would probably say corn (maize). Certainly not the best crop -
> though IMO there is no "best" crop, there are so many factors that
> mean much more than yield does when you get down to it, ie on a real
> farm at local level (and by "real" farm I mean a mixed farm, not a
> monocrop disaster).
>
> On the other hand,  there's currently billions of bushels of surplus
> corn in the US - the cheapest thing for Americans to burn in their
> woodstoves. Might as well do something useful with it - and hopefully
> it might even occur to the Big Guys eventually that there's OIL in it
> too that they could use to make biodiesel as well as ethanol.
>
> But as long as ethanol and biofuels generally are treated as an
> agriculture issue, for the benefit of agribiz at everyone else's
> expense, and not an energy issue, I don't think we can expect any
> sensible behaviour, at least not at that level. At the level most
> people here operate at though it's a different matter.
>
> >I don't know if you heard about the new ethanol plant they
> >are building in
> >Kansas and all the BS hype they gave it.
>
> I think we did, there's quite a lot of news in the archive about
> ethanol plants in Kansas. Is that the 25-million gallon plant in
> Russell?
>
> >The people that are building
> >it had public meetings
> >on the plant.  They had an oil co rep that told people how they would
> >buy the ethanol and mix it with gas.  They told the farmers how that
> >would pay top dollar for the grain and how everybody wins.
> >Bull what they didn't tell is the only winners will be the plant owners
> >and the oil co becouse after
> >the ethanol is is processed and mixed with Fuel.
> >The spent grain  will be dryed and used in animal feed.  Like Dog food,
> >Cat food And Cattle feed
>
> Especially cattlefeed I think, DDGs. They sell the CO2 as well, to
> bottling companies mostly. DDGs make good sense with an on-farm
> ethanol operation - with the yeast residues, it's more nutritious
> (more protein) than the corn had in the first place. Probably no need
> to dry it either. I think it can be a win-win situation when it's
> small-scale, like this:
>
> The Butterfield Still -- This report provides details of the design,
> construction, operation and performance of the FSB Energy Fuel
> Alcohol Plant.
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_butterfield.html
>
> Farm-scale ethanol fuel production plant -- the Gildred/Butterfield
> Fuel Alcohol Plant, winner of the California Department of Food and
> Agriculture's Ethanol Fuel Plant Design Competition: Floyd
> Butterfield's on-farm still operation in full, complete with
> blueprints. Plant Description, Plant Operating Manual, Plant
> Performance Data, Plant Construction Guide, Recommendations,
> Appendixes and eight blueprints of the still, cooker and operating
> set-up. Operates continuously, 24 hours per day, 10 gallons per hour
> of 190 proof ethanol. Includes screw press blueprints and
> construction details. With many thanks to Garle A. Webb.
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/Butterfield/butterfield1.html
>
> >just to name a few.
>
> I quite often quote Steve Spence saying here once that anything can
> be done badly and in 10 years we'll probably be fighting Big Ethanol
> tooth and nail like we fight Big Oil today. I think I got it right...
> Oh, here it is: "I have a niggling feeling that 10 years from now,
> the environmentalists will be fighting the ethanol industry tooth and
> nail. anything can be done badly, and I expect the ADM's of the world
> will be successful in turning a clean renewable resource into a dirty
> unsustainable one.."
>
> >onec agin I want to say Iam sorry if I made any one
> >mad in the Group.
>
> Naah, not at all, but:
>
> > > All that said, more discussion on fuel ethanol is welcome.
>
> For which thankyou! Don't stop now:
>
> > Do you make and use fuel ethanol?
>
> :-)
>
> Best wishes
>
> Keith
>
>
> >Jim Allen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Keith Addison wrote:
> >
> > > >If people would think Ethanol Can be processed form jusy about any
> > > >Vegetation not just corn and grain. Even Grass can yeild Ethanol. If
> >

Re: [biofuel] Ethanol fuel - was Re: SVO vs biodiesel - was Re: newby

[Keith Addison]

Hello Jim

>  Keith I'm not saying all people don't think And certainly not this
>group here.
>What I am saying is a person on the street.  9 out of 10 people that
>know about
>ethanol

I wonder how many that would be? Or maybe how few: other posters have 
bemoaned the woefully inadequate level of promotion and public 
education from the Big Ethanol players like ADM.

>if you ask them how it is made or what it made out of they will corn
>or grain.

Most would probably say corn (maize). Certainly not the best crop - 
though IMO there is no "best" crop, there are so many factors that 
mean much more than yield does when you get down to it, ie on a real 
farm at local level (and by "real" farm I mean a mixed farm, not a 
monocrop disaster).

On the other hand,  there's currently billions of bushels of surplus 
corn in the US - the cheapest thing for Americans to burn in their 
woodstoves. Might as well do something useful with it - and hopefully 
it might even occur to the Big Guys eventually that there's OIL in it 
too that they could use to make biodiesel as well as ethanol.

But as long as ethanol and biofuels generally are treated as an 
agriculture issue, for the benefit of agribiz at everyone else's 
expense, and not an energy issue, I don't think we can expect any 
sensible behaviour, at least not at that level. At the level most 
people here operate at though it's a different matter.

>I don't know if you heard about the new ethanol plant they
>are building in
>Kansas and all the BS hype they gave it.

I think we did, there's quite a lot of news in the archive about 
ethanol plants in Kansas. Is that the 25-million gallon plant in 
Russell?

>The people that are building
>it had public meetings
>on the plant.  They had an oil co rep that told people how they would
>buy the ethanol and mix it with gas.  They told the farmers how that
>would pay top dollar for the grain and how everybody wins.
>Bull what they didn't tell is the only winners will be the plant owners
>and the oil co becouse after
>the ethanol is is processed and mixed with Fuel.
>The spent grain  will be dryed and used in animal feed.  Like Dog food,
>Cat food And Cattle feed

Especially cattlefeed I think, DDGs. They sell the CO2 as well, to 
bottling companies mostly. DDGs make good sense with an on-farm 
ethanol operation - with the yeast residues, it's more nutritious 
(more protein) than the corn had in the first place. Probably no need 
to dry it either. I think it can be a win-win situation when it's 
small-scale, like this:

The Butterfield Still -- This report provides details of the design, 
construction, operation and performance of the FSB Energy Fuel 
Alcohol Plant.
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_butterfield.html

Farm-scale ethanol fuel production plant -- the Gildred/Butterfield 
Fuel Alcohol Plant, winner of the California Department of Food and 
Agriculture's Ethanol Fuel Plant Design Competition: Floyd 
Butterfield's on-farm still operation in full, complete with 
blueprints. Plant Description, Plant Operating Manual, Plant 
Performance Data, Plant Construction Guide, Recommendations, 
Appendixes and eight blueprints of the still, cooker and operating 
set-up. Operates continuously, 24 hours per day, 10 gallons per hour 
of 190 proof ethanol. Includes screw press blueprints and 
construction details. With many thanks to Garle A. Webb.
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/Butterfield/butterfield1.html

>just to name a few.

I quite often quote Steve Spence saying here once that anything can 
be done badly and in 10 years we'll probably be fighting Big Ethanol 
tooth and nail like we fight Big Oil today. I think I got it right... 
Oh, here it is: "I have a niggling feeling that 10 years from now, 
the environmentalists will be fighting the ethanol industry tooth and 
nail. anything can be done badly, and I expect the ADM's of the world 
will be successful in turning a clean renewable resource into a dirty 
unsustainable one.."

>onec agin I want to say Iam sorry if I made any one
>mad in the Group.

Naah, not at all, but:

> > All that said, more discussion on fuel ethanol is welcome.

For which thankyou! Don't stop now:

> Do you make and use fuel ethanol?

:-)

Best wishes

Keith


>Jim Allen
>
>
>
>
>
>Keith Addison wrote:
>
> > >If people would think Ethanol Can be processed form jusy about any
> > >Vegetation not just corn and grain. Even Grass can yeild Ethanol. If
> > >fermented but your yeild would be lower. Jim Allen
> >
> > What makes you think people don't think? The people here most
> > certainly do think. Do a search in the archives for "ethanol"
> > (without the quotes) and see what you find. Well, here's what you'll
> > find:
> >
> > http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?keywords=ethanol&list=biofuel
> > 
> >
> > - 3,950 messages dealing with ethanol, and another 560 here:
> >
> > http://archive.nnytech.net/in

Re: [biofuel] Ethanol fuel - was Re: SVO vs biodiesel - was Re: newby

[J Allen]

  Keith I'm not saying all people don't think And certainly not this 
group here.
What I am saying is a person on the street.  9 out of 10 people that 
know about
ethanol if you ask them how it is made or what it made out of they will corn
or grain.  I don't know if you heard about the new ethanol plant they 
are building in
Kansas and all the BS hype they gave it.  The people that are building 
it had public meetings
on the plant.  They had an oil co rep that told people how they would 
buy the ethanol and mix it with gas.  They told the farmers how that 
would pay top dollar for the grain and how everybody wins.
Bull what they didn't tell is the only winners will be the plant owners 
and the oil co becouse after
the ethanol is is processed and mixed with Fuel.
The spent grain  will be dryed and used in animal feed.  Like Dog food, 
Cat food And Cattle feed
just to name a few.  onec agin I want to say Iam sorry if I made any one 
mad in the Group. Jim Allen
 

 


Keith Addison wrote:

> >If people would think Ethanol Can be processed form jusy about any
> >Vegetation not just corn and grain. Even Grass can yeild Ethanol. If
> >fermented but your yeild would be lower. Jim Allen
>
> What makes you think people don't think? The people here most
> certainly do think. Do a search in the archives for "ethanol"
> (without the quotes) and see what you find. Well, here's what you'll
> find:
>
> http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?keywords=ethanol&list=biofuel 
> 
>
> - 3,950 messages dealing with ethanol, and another 560 here:
>
> http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?keywords=ethanol&list=biofuels-biz 
> 
>
> If you explore the other link at the end of every message you
> receive, this one:
>
> > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
> ... you'll find a whole ethanol section:
>
> http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol.html
> Ethanol
>
> http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_link.html
> Ethanol resources on the Web
>
> ... as well as a lot of hands-on fuel ethanol information here:
>
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library.html
> Biofuels Library - Journey to Forever
>
> ... including two ethanol fuel manuals, full-text online, and quite a
> few still designs.
>
> All that said, more discussion on fuel ethanol is welcome. Do you
> make and use fuel ethanol?
>
> Alex recently wrote this:
>
> >Hi,
> >I'm a newby.
> >My question - why people are more interested in biodiesel and not in an
> >ethanol?
> >In my opinion, ethanol is easier to make "from scratch" then biodiesel.
> >Regards,
> >Alex
>
> People are interested in fuel ethanol, but more people are probably
> interested in biodiesel. There are some reasons for that:
>
> 1) I doubt many would agree that ethanol is easier to make "from
> scratch" than biodiesel, and in useful quantities as fuel.
>
> 2) Diesels are more economical than spark-ignition engines, more
> efficient, and, indeed, cleaner.
>
> 3) There are some disadvantages to using fuel ethanol in a gasoline
> motor that biodiesel in a diesel doesn't share:
>
> (a) You need to modify the motor for ethanol use, enlarging the main
> jet, which means you can't simply switch back to gasoline without
> replacing the original jet, and computerised fuel systems are more
> complex; blending fuel ethanol with gasoline means the ethanol must
> be anhydrous, which is troublesome. With a diesel, you can switch
> between biodiesel and dinodiesel or use any combination without
> having to do anything.
>
> (b) Ethanol is rather corrosive (though not as corrosive as
> methanol), and engines have to be specially protected if they're to
> last without damage; there is no such issue with biodiesel.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Keith
>
> 
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
> click here 
> 
>  
>
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
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>
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[biofuel] Ethanol fuel - was Re: SVO vs biodiesel - was Re: newby

[Keith Addison]

>If people would think Ethanol Can be processed form jusy about any
>Vegetation not just corn and grain. Even Grass can yeild Ethanol. If
>fermented but your yeild would be lower. Jim Allen

What makes you think people don't think? The people here most 
certainly do think. Do a search in the archives for "ethanol" 
(without the quotes) and see what you find. Well, here's what you'll 
find:

http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?keywords=ethanol&list=biofuel

- 3,950 messages dealing with ethanol, and another 560 here:

http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?keywords=ethanol&list=biofuels-biz

If you explore the other link at the end of every message you 
receive, this one:

> > Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

... you'll find a whole ethanol section:

http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol.html
Ethanol

http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_link.html
Ethanol resources on the Web

... as well as a lot of hands-on fuel ethanol information here:

http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library.html
Biofuels Library - Journey to Forever

... including two ethanol fuel manuals, full-text online, and quite a 
few still designs.

All that said, more discussion on fuel ethanol is welcome. Do you 
make and use fuel ethanol?

Alex recently wrote this:

>Hi,
>I'm a newby.
>My question - why people are more interested in biodiesel and not in an
>ethanol?
>In my opinion, ethanol is easier to make "from scratch" then biodiesel.
>Regards,
>Alex

People are interested in fuel ethanol, but more people are probably 
interested in biodiesel. There are some reasons for that:

1) I doubt many would agree that ethanol is easier to make "from 
scratch" than biodiesel, and in useful quantities as fuel.

2) Diesels are more economical than spark-ignition engines, more 
efficient, and, indeed, cleaner.

3) There are some disadvantages to using fuel ethanol in a gasoline 
motor that biodiesel in a diesel doesn't share:

(a) You need to modify the motor for ethanol use, enlarging the main 
jet, which means you can't simply switch back to gasoline without 
replacing the original jet, and computerised fuel systems are more 
complex; blending fuel ethanol with gasoline means the ethanol must 
be anhydrous, which is troublesome. With a diesel, you can switch 
between biodiesel and dinodiesel or use any combination without 
having to do anything.

(b) Ethanol is rather corrosive (though not as corrosive as 
methanol), and engines have to be specially protected if they're to 
last without damage; there is no such issue with biodiesel.

Best wishes

Keith




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RE: [biofuel] Ethanol fuel engine alterations

[Henderson, Garry]

The other really important thing to check is the corrosion potential of the
other components in the fuel system and the engine itself.  In particular
check the compatibility of the seals and pipes.  You should also make sure
that the injectors are up to the task.

Ethanol is very corrosive, mostly due to its affinity to water, but also in
its own right.  If you do not ensure that the material are suitable it can
result in some catastrophic engine failures = very expensive.

Suitable material components are usually available though.

Good luck.

Garry.

-Original Message-
From: robert luis rabello [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, 4 July 2003 11:24 AM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Ethanol fuel engine alterations




Chicago Medi-Transit wrote:

> I am looking for information that can provide me with
> difficulty or simplicity of converting a 2002 Ford
> E250 v6 engine to run on ethanol fuel. Information
> that I have discovered on the major auto makers
> websites are indirectly discouraging conversions
> expressing the difficulty. So I am seeking thoughts
> and suggestions from the group. Journey to Forever
> site briefly explains in one paragraph some minor
> changes. So if there is anyone that can assist me, it
> would be greatly appreciated.

Check out this link:

http://www.sdsefi.com/specific.html

You should be able to run an EFI system using a high pressure fuel pump
and
this kind of adjustable, computerized injection control.  Look into the 30#
fuel
injectors the guys running turbo and supercharged Mustangs are installing,
and
while you're at it, consider "abnormal aspiration" to enable maximum
efficiency
from the higher octane ethanol.

Fuel injection should enable you to run lower "proof" ethanol.  There is
not
a lot of information available for those of us with fuel injected engines,
but
from what I understand, high pressure fuel injection essentially eliminates
the
cold starting problems that plague carbureted engines.

Other than that, you can look into the E 85 "flexi fuel" engines
available
from Ford.  (You may even own one already!)  You would need to mix pure
ethanol
(no water) with 15% gasoline, but this would require NO engine modifications
whatsoever--the onboard computer will sense the specific gravity of the fuel
and
do its magic on your behalf.


robert luis rabello
"The Edge of Justice"
Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782




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Re: [biofuel] Ethanol fuel engine alterations

[robert luis rabello]

Chicago Medi-Transit wrote:

> I am looking for information that can provide me with
> difficulty or simplicity of converting a 2002 Ford
> E250 v6 engine to run on ethanol fuel. Information
> that I have discovered on the major auto makers
> websites are indirectly discouraging conversions
> expressing the difficulty. So I am seeking thoughts
> and suggestions from the group. Journey to Forever
> site briefly explains in one paragraph some minor
> changes. So if there is anyone that can assist me, it
> would be greatly appreciated.

Check out this link:

http://www.sdsefi.com/specific.html

You should be able to run an EFI system using a high pressure fuel pump and
this kind of adjustable, computerized injection control.  Look into the 30# fuel
injectors the guys running turbo and supercharged Mustangs are installing, and
while you're at it, consider "abnormal aspiration" to enable maximum efficiency
from the higher octane ethanol.

Fuel injection should enable you to run lower "proof" ethanol.  There is not
a lot of information available for those of us with fuel injected engines, but
from what I understand, high pressure fuel injection essentially eliminates the
cold starting problems that plague carbureted engines.

Other than that, you can look into the E 85 "flexi fuel" engines available
from Ford.  (You may even own one already!)  You would need to mix pure ethanol
(no water) with 15% gasoline, but this would require NO engine modifications
whatsoever--the onboard computer will sense the specific gravity of the fuel and
do its magic on your behalf.


robert luis rabello
"The Edge of Justice"
Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782



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[biofuel] Ethanol fuel engine alterations

[Chicago Medi-Transit]

I am looking for information that can provide me with
difficulty or simplicity of converting a 2002 Ford
E250 v6 engine to run on ethanol fuel. Information
that I have discovered on the major auto makers
websites are indirectly discouraging conversions
expressing the difficulty. So I am seeking thoughts
and suggestions from the group. Journey to Forever
site briefly explains in one paragraph some minor 
changes. So if there is anyone that can assist me, it
would be greatly appreciated.

JG



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RE: [biofuel] ethanol fuel

[Keith Addison]

ial production. $25
http://home.earthlink.net/~dlaw70/alteng.htm

How To Build A Junkyard Still, by Mike Brown -- be your own motor 
fuel magnate. $12.00.
http://home.earthlink.net/~dlaw70/alteng.htm#junkyard

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
Handmade Projects
Tokyo
http://journeytoforever.org/



>Mike brown's motor fuel cook book for corn to alcohol
>
>
> >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: RE: [biofuel] ethanol fuel
> >Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 22:51:45 -0500
> >
> >
> >Hi,
> >The process for production of ethanol from starchy material e.g. Corn,
> >potato, cassava etc. is offered by an Indian Company. The details are
> >available on www.praj.net
> >Ajay Soni
> >India
> >
> >
> >
> > "Juan Boveda"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]To:
> > r.com.py>
> >  cc:
> > 01/31/02 Subject: RE: [biofuel]
> > 04:41 PM ethanol fuel
> > Please
> > respond to
> > biofuel
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Hi, Flashyrider
> >About converting your engine, I have never done it, but I can tell you what
> >I have seen  in some 4 stroke/4 cylinders 1.3 L to 2.0 L ethanol powered
> >Brazilian cars with some special devices installed at factory
> >a) They changes the compression ratio to about 1/15 by diminishing
> >the
> >volume on the upper head of the combustion chamber (so you get maximum
> >efficiency from ethanol that withstand high compression ratios)
> >b) The ethanol needs to over 30¡ C room temperature to have enough
> >amount
> >of evaporation in carburettor, so they should add a preheating device or
> >use an automatic controlled starting mixture of high octane gasoline or
> >that is turn off when the engine reaches its working temp.
> >c) You might add after the carburettor a hot comb or fingers made
> >of
> >aluminium in contact with some part of the exhaust  as a heat exchanger,
> >and add to the air intake a metal hose or cover around the exhaust of the
> >engine if you are living in some cold climate country.
> >
> >Best regards,
> >Juan Boveda
> >Paraguay.
> >
> >--
> >De: flashyrider <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >A: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> >Asunto: [biofuel] ethanol fuel
> >Fecha: S‡bado 12 de Enero de 2002 5:38 PM
> >
> >Hi, I'm a new member to this group and if anyone could answer my
> >questions I would be very grateful.'
> >
> >1. What is the best recipe for converting potatoes to ethanol.
> >Specifically, I have a recipe that says to just boil the potatoes and
> >use only the liquid for fermentation. Is that the best way, or should
> >I mash up the potatoes and try to convert all the starch?
> >
> >2. Does anyone have a good recipe for converting corn to ethanol?
> >
> >3. I built a valved reflux still and I need to know what is the best
> >packing to use in the column. Right now, I'm using glass marbles with
> >a  1/2 diameter. I have heard of using Raschig rings. Are they more
> >efficient? How about steel wool?
> >
> >4. I would like to convert my 2 cycle lawnmower to run on ethanol
> >fuel. Any suggestions on engine conversion?
> >
> >Thanx.
> >
> >
> >
> >Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> >Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
> >To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> >Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
> >To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>_
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>
>
>Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
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RE: [biofuel] ethanol fuel

[J Killen]

Mike brown's motor fuel cook book for corn to alcohol


>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [biofuel] ethanol fuel
>Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 22:51:45 -0500
>
>
>Hi,
>The process for production of ethanol from starchy material e.g. Corn,
>potato, cassava etc. is offered by an Indian Company. The details are
>available on www.praj.net
>Ajay Soni
>India
>
>
>
> "Juan Boveda"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]To:
> r.com.py>
>  cc:
> 01/31/02 Subject: RE: [biofuel]
> 04:41 PM ethanol fuel
> Please
> respond to
> biofuel
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Hi, Flashyrider
>About converting your engine, I have never done it, but I can tell you what
>I have seen  in some 4 stroke/4 cylinders 1.3 L to 2.0 L ethanol powered
>Brazilian cars with some special devices installed at factory
>a) They changes the compression ratio to about 1/15 by diminishing
>the
>volume on the upper head of the combustion chamber (so you get maximum
>efficiency from ethanol that withstand high compression ratios)
>b) The ethanol needs to over 30¡ C room temperature to have enough
>amount
>of evaporation in carburettor, so they should add a preheating device or
>use an automatic controlled starting mixture of high octane gasoline or
>that is turn off when the engine reaches its working temp.
>c) You might add after the carburettor a hot comb or fingers made
>of
>aluminium in contact with some part of the exhaust  as a heat exchanger,
>and add to the air intake a metal hose or cover around the exhaust of the
>engine if you are living in some cold climate country.
>
>Best regards,
>Juan Boveda
>Paraguay.
>
>--
>De: flashyrider <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>A: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>Asunto: [biofuel] ethanol fuel
>Fecha: S‡bado 12 de Enero de 2002 5:38 PM
>
>Hi, I'm a new member to this group and if anyone could answer my
>questions I would be very grateful.'
>
>1. What is the best recipe for converting potatoes to ethanol.
>Specifically, I have a recipe that says to just boil the potatoes and
>use only the liquid for fermentation. Is that the best way, or should
>I mash up the potatoes and try to convert all the starch?
>
>2. Does anyone have a good recipe for converting corn to ethanol?
>
>3. I built a valved reflux still and I need to know what is the best
>packing to use in the column. Right now, I'm using glass marbles with
>a  1/2 diameter. I have heard of using Raschig rings. Are they more
>efficient? How about steel wool?
>
>4. I would like to convert my 2 cycle lawnmower to run on ethanol
>fuel. Any suggestions on engine conversion?
>
>Thanx.
>
>
>
>Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
>To unsubscribe, send an email to:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
>To unsubscribe, send an email to:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>




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RE: [biofuel] ethanol fuel

[ajaysoni]

Hi,
The process for production of ethanol from starchy material e.g. Corn,
potato, cassava etc. is offered by an Indian Company. The details are
available on www.praj.net
Ajay Soni
India


  
"Juan Boveda" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]To:  
r.com.py>
 cc:  
01/31/02 Subject: RE: [biofuel]   
04:41 PM ethanol fuel 
Please
respond to
biofuel   
  
  





Hi, Flashyrider
About converting your engine, I have never done it, but I can tell you what
I have seen  in some 4 stroke/4 cylinders 1.3 L to 2.0 L ethanol powered
Brazilian cars with some special devices installed at factory
a) They changes the compression ratio to about 1/15 by diminishing
the
volume on the upper head of the combustion chamber (so you get maximum
efficiency from ethanol that withstand high compression ratios)
b) The ethanol needs to over 30¡ C room temperature to have enough
amount
of evaporation in carburettor, so they should add a preheating device or
use an automatic controlled starting mixture of high octane gasoline or
that is turn off when the engine reaches its working temp.
c) You might add after the carburettor a hot comb or fingers made
of
aluminium in contact with some part of the exhaust  as a heat exchanger,
and add to the air intake a metal hose or cover around the exhaust of the
engine if you are living in some cold climate country.

Best regards,
Juan Boveda
Paraguay.

--
De: flashyrider <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
A: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Asunto: [biofuel] ethanol fuel
Fecha: S‡bado 12 de Enero de 2002 5:38 PM

Hi, I'm a new member to this group and if anyone could answer my
questions I would be very grateful.'

1. What is the best recipe for converting potatoes to ethanol.
Specifically, I have a recipe that says to just boil the potatoes and
use only the liquid for fermentation. Is that the best way, or should
I mash up the potatoes and try to convert all the starch?

2. Does anyone have a good recipe for converting corn to ethanol?

3. I built a valved reflux still and I need to know what is the best
packing to use in the column. Right now, I'm using glass marbles with
a  1/2 diameter. I have heard of using Raschig rings. Are they more
efficient? How about steel wool?

4. I would like to convert my 2 cycle lawnmower to run on ethanol
fuel. Any suggestions on engine conversion?

Thanx.



Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
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RE: [biofuel] ethanol fuel

[Juan Boveda]

Hi, Flashyrider
About converting your engine, I have never done it, but I can tell you what
I have seen  in some 4 stroke/4 cylinders 1.3 L to 2.0 L ethanol powered
Brazilian cars with some special devices installed at factory
a)  They changes the compression ratio to about 1/15 by diminishing the
volume on the upper head of the combustion chamber (so you get maximum
efficiency from ethanol that withstand high compression ratios)
b)  The ethanol needs to over 30¡ C room temperature to have enough amount
of evaporation in carburettor, so they should add a preheating device or
use an automatic controlled starting mixture of high octane gasoline or
that is turn off when the engine reaches its working temp.
c)  You might add after the carburettor a hot comb or fingers made of
aluminium in contact with some part of the exhaust  as a heat exchanger,
and add to the air intake a metal hose or cover around the exhaust of the
engine if you are living in some cold climate country.

Best regards,
Juan Boveda
Paraguay.

--
De: flashyrider <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
A: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Asunto: [biofuel] ethanol fuel
Fecha: S‡bado 12 de Enero de 2002 5:38 PM

Hi, I'm a new member to this group and if anyone could answer my
questions I would be very grateful.'

1. What is the best recipe for converting potatoes to ethanol.
Specifically, I have a recipe that says to just boil the potatoes and
use only the liquid for fermentation. Is that the best way, or should
I mash up the potatoes and try to convert all the starch?

2. Does anyone have a good recipe for converting corn to ethanol?

3. I built a valved reflux still and I need to know what is the best
packing to use in the column. Right now, I'm using glass marbles with
a  1/2 diameter. I have heard of using Raschig rings. Are they more
efficient? How about steel wool?

4. I would like to convert my 2 cycle lawnmower to run on ethanol
fuel. Any suggestions on engine conversion?

Thanx.



Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
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Re: [biofuel] ethanol fuel

[Keith Addison]

>Hi, I'm a new member to this group and if anyone could answer my
>questions I would be very grateful.'
>
>1. What is the best recipe for converting potatoes to ethanol.
>Specifically, I have a recipe that says to just boil the potatoes and
>use only the liquid for fermentation. Is that the best way, or should
>I mash up the potatoes and try to convert all the starch?

Re starch, potatoes, malts and much else, see the Alcohol Fuel 
Manual, Chapter 7 deals with processing starchy materials, Chapter 10 
has a section on potatoes:

The Manual for the Home and Farm Production of Alcohol Fuel, by S.W. Mathewson
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_manual/manual_ToC.html

For further information see also Mother Earth Alcohol Fuel:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/meToC.html

See below for a message from the archives on processing potatoes from 
David Reid, who unfortunately is no longer a list member.

>2. Does anyone have a good recipe for converting corn to ethanol?

See above refs.

>3. I built a valved reflux still and I need to know what is the best
>packing to use in the column. Right now, I'm using glass marbles with
>a  1/2 diameter. I have heard of using Raschig rings. Are they more
>efficient? How about steel wool?

It'll rust. Best: stainless steel pot scrubbers, followed by Raschig 
rings (expensive), marbles third.

Go to Tony Ackland's site, you'll find much useful information there.
http://www.homedistiller.org

>4. I would like to convert my 2 cycle lawnmower to run on ethanol
>fuel. Any suggestions on engine conversion?

Geese are better than lawnmowers. :-)

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
Handmade Projects
Tokyo
http://journeytoforever.org/


>Thanx.

 From David Reid, 10/4/00:

>Potatoes are harder than most people think and you need a bit of
>experience to get them right.  Books make it sound so easy because they tend
>to simpIify the process and take for granted that you have a full
>understanding and experience of all the steps involved quite often leaving
>out some of the elementary steps. Most of us need to fully understand the
>basics first before we really begin to learn. I have not tried potatoes yet
>myself but know this from my reading, broad experiernce of other aspects,
>and experience with other forms of starch.
>What you will probably need to do is what is called a Stepped Infusion Mash.
>This is where you start the saccharification process at a low temperature
>and then move it up in steps, halting for a certain time period at each step
>to give each enzyme time to break down as much as they can at each stage. If
>you have made beer in the past using an all-grain mash you will understand
>the process.
>To get a feeling for it and to understand the process better try the
>following:
>1) Cook your potatoes so they are still stiff - about 12- 15 minutes at
>reasonable heat. Up to 20 minutes at low heat.
>Note they should still be a bit undercooked, definitely not soft, mushy, or
>floury.
>2) Add coarsely milled barley (particles mostly about 1/16 to 3/32" in size.
>Definitely not too fine.). Use malted Ale barley  or standard malted barley
>rather than Lager barley as it is definitely higher in enzymes and enzymatic
>action.
>Note you need sprouted malted barley not spray-dried malt which is normally
>on a maltodextrin base and has had most of the enzymes destroyed or
>inactivated because of the excessive heat used in the drying process.
>3) Cover with sufficient water and bring to 113 F (45 C). Hold 15 minutes
>stirring  regularly.
>4) Bring up to 133 F (56 C). Hold 15 minutes etc.
>5) Bring up to 149 F (65 C). Hold 15 minutes stirring constantly.
>6) Bring up to 158 F (70 C). Hold 15 minutes stirring constantly.
>All up this makes 60 minutes which should suffice for a small batch. Some
>batches will take longer especially bigger batches. Most of the liquifaction
>and saccharification occurs in steps 5 & 6 rather than 3 & 4. If you want to
>alter this reduce 3 & 4  to 10 minutes and increase 5 & 6 to 20 minutes or
>longer where required.
>7) Once virtually all the starch is liquified and broken down to simple
>sugars to halt the enzymatic process raise the temp to 176 F (80 C) (Mashing
>Out) and then drop it back as quickly as possible to between 140 F (60 C)
>and 122 F (50 C) so the sugars dont get scorched or burnt.
>8) Cool down further to 75 F (24 C), establish an SG of 1060 (min) to 1080
>(max = ideal) and begin fermentation.
>If you muck around with the basic formula doing several batches, altering
>the temperature and times a small amount each time you will quickly get a
>feel for it and learn far more than you can learn initially out of books or
>I can spell out for you.
>I suggest you start with 3 or 4 kg of potatoes and 1/2 kg of barley each
>time so you have plenty of enzymes together with a very large pot so it
>dosnt boil over. Once you have got this basic process under control and
>gained a bit of experienc

Re: [biofuel] ethanol fuel

[Martin Klingensmith]

Stainless steel scrubbers work very well.

--- Greg and April <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 3. I built a valved reflux still and I need to know what is the best
> > packing to use in the column. Right now, I'm using glass marbles with
> > a  1/2 diameter. I have heard of using Raschig rings. Are they more
> > efficient? How about steel wool?


=
-Martin Klingensmith
http://devzero.ath.cx/
http://www.nnytech.net/


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Re: [biofuel] ethanol fuel

[r . p . kurz]

copper or stainless steel pot scrubbers work very well.
 (sans soap of course) expand them alittle bit,don't
pack them tightly. section of them spaced a couple of 
inches apart depending on the height of you column.
 regards, roger kurz ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "flashyrider" <
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 13:38
> Subject: [biofuel] ethanol fuel
> 
> 
> >
> > 3. I built a valved reflux still and I need to know what is the best
> > packing to use in the column. Right now, I'm using glass marbles with
> > a  1/2 diameter. I have heard of using Raschig rings. Are they more
> > efficient? How about steel wool?
> >
> 
> Steel wool would rust away real fast, the best way I have read about (a few
> years ago), is fill the reflux colunm with copper wool (check the kitchen or
> cleaner section of the local Safeway for copper scrub pads).
> 
> Greg H.
> 
> 
> 
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
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> 
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> 
> 

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Re: [biofuel] ethanol fuel

[Greg and April]

- Original Message -
From: "flashyrider" <
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 13:38
Subject: [biofuel] ethanol fuel


>
> 3. I built a valved reflux still and I need to know what is the best
> packing to use in the column. Right now, I'm using glass marbles with
> a  1/2 diameter. I have heard of using Raschig rings. Are they more
> efficient? How about steel wool?
>

Steel wool would rust away real fast, the best way I have read about (a few
years ago), is fill the reflux colunm with copper wool (check the kitchen or
cleaner section of the local Safeway for copper scrub pads).

Greg H.


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[biofuel] ethanol fuel

[flashyrider]

Hi, I'm a new member to this group and if anyone could answer my
questions I would be very grateful.'

1. What is the best recipe for converting potatoes to ethanol.
Specifically, I have a recipe that says to just boil the potatoes and
use only the liquid for fermentation. Is that the best way, or should
I mash up the potatoes and try to convert all the starch?

2. Does anyone have a good recipe for converting corn to ethanol?

3. I built a valved reflux still and I need to know what is the best
packing to use in the column. Right now, I'm using glass marbles with
a  1/2 diameter. I have heard of using Raschig rings. Are they more
efficient? How about steel wool?

4. I would like to convert my 2 cycle lawnmower to run on ethanol
fuel. Any suggestions on engine conversion?

Thanx.


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[biofuel] Ethanol Fuel - online paper

[Keith Addison]

"Understanding Ethanol Fuel Production and Use", by Cliff Bradley & 
Ken Runnion, Technical Paper # 3, Understanding Technology Series, 
Volunteers In Technical Assistance (VITA) - 7,000-word article on 
small-scale ethanol production, with bibliography. Volunteer 
co-authors Bradley and Runnion specialize in alcohol fuel production 
technologies at Renewable Technologies, Inc. Full text online:
http://idh.vita.org/pubs/docs/uef.html

News

"Australia Sugar - Plan to establish ethanol industry" - Australia's 
raw sugar sector is considering following Brazil into producing 
ethanol as a solution to chronic industry depression.
http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cfm?newsid=6212


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