Re: [biofuel] Kevin Shea
Hello jimbull >Mr Shea, I saw your message and I also was wondering about a >seperate "processor" for incoming raw if you will, wvo. I came up >with a poly drum that I had with two 4500 watt water heater >elements. A lot of people don't like the combination of poly drums and heating elements, and indeed there have been reports of fires with such processors. I'm not so sure about it, I think it can be done well and safely, but that would be for a processor, not a dewatering tank, especially not the way you're going about it. Two 4500 watt water heater elements! 225 degree plus. Wow. Two things about that. Don't you find that those elements burn the oil unless you stir it? List member Matt Pozzi, also in Oz I think - oh, sorry, you're in Tazzie? :-) Anyway Matt gave us a number: "Make a rough estimate of the element's area of contact with the oil (length*pi*diameter) and make sure the output will be around or less than 3W/sq cm, this will ensure no burning of the oil whilst heating. Elsewise you will need to stir while heating." Our 1.5 watt element comes out with around 10W/sq cm, and does burn the oil unless we stir it. But that's just for processing, at max 130 deg F, not boiling off water at 225. I definitely wouldn't attempt that in a poly drum. By the way, you shouldn't need to heat it that much anyway to remove water content. Please see my current message to Kevin Shea, "Re: [biofuel] Heating tank to boil water/fatty acids to WVO before processing 10 gal batches". >If you go with a thermostate, you won't get them hot >enough, least mine didn't, so I went w/o it and set them on a >reostate (a30amp one is strong enough) and I can get 225 degree plus >out of it. My barrel has sides strong enough to run the elements >into and they tap threads themselves (metal vs plastic) however, I >do not trust just that so I put a generous layer of metal set around >the element and that will stict to anything and it holds very well. >I have a 30gal fumeless processor built on the plans from the web >site at journey to forever. I made some additions to it, as I have >it set up to draw wvo in, circutlate in the hot water heater, draw >the meth in and then transfer to the was tank and finally pump it >out all using the same pump. I used pex tubing and valves on all >the set up and it works great. I do 25 gals at a time and thats 5 >gal of meth/lye mix at a time and get around 22 gal or so back. >runs great in my johndeer 4020hope this helps a little, as the >forum is getting more political then helpfull to people like >us...jimbull Well, the number political posts, whatever that means (matter of opinion), rises and falls, but the how-to stuff carries on anyway, and I don't understand why some people think the one interferes with the other. If anything they're complementary (as many think), or it just doesn't matter. The list does what its members tell it to. It's not a TV set - if people lurk then they should expect whatever comes their way, but anybody can take an active role and post messages on whatever interests them. As you've just done. No sense in complaining about other people's messages - if they don't interest you then don't read them. Best wishes Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Kevin Shea
MeOH boils at 148.1*F. Last thing you're going to want is an accident similar to Yellow Biodiesel due to alcohol fumes flashing. The only time you'll need a temp higher than 120*-130* F is if you are recovering the alcohol with an evaporator/condensor. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: "Art Krenzel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 10:10 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Kevin Shea > Jimbull, > > Operating a poly drum filled with hot oil at 225 deg F sounds like an accident waiting to happen. > > Just stop and think for awhile what your response will be when the side of the drum tears and dumps (I assume) 55 gallons of hot oil around your work area. Why not use a metal drum just for safety's sake? > > Threading a metal heater element into the soft metal wall of the poly drum sounds like another accident waiting to happen. > > I am sorry, but as a Professional Engineer I cannot be still over these simple but dangerous issues. > > Please look a bit farther ahead and save yourself some time spent in bandages and the hospital burn unit (if available). Don't be so focused on near term gains that you forget to look at long term losses. > > Art Krenzel > - Original Message - > From: tazmaniantoo > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 6:30 AM > Subject: [biofuel] Kevin Shea > > > Mr Shea, I saw your message and I also was wondering about a > seperate "processor" for incoming raw if you will, wvo. I came up > with a poly drum that I had with two 4500 watt water heater > elements. If you go with a thermostate, you won't get them hot > enough, least mine didn't, so I went w/o it and set them on a > reostate (a30amp one is strong enough) and I can get 225 degree plus > out of it. My barrel has sides strong enough to run the elements > into and they tap threads themselves (metal vs plastic) however, I > do not trust just that so I put a generous layer of metal set around > the element and that will stict to anything and it holds very well. > I have a 30gal fumeless processor built on the plans from the web > site at journey to forever. I made some additions to it, as I have > it set up to draw wvo in, circutlate in the hot water heater, draw > the meth in and then transfer to the was tank and finally pump it > out all using the same pump. I used pex tubing and valves on all > the set up and it works great. I do 25 gals at a time and thats 5 > gal of meth/lye mix at a time and get around 22 gal or so back. > runs great in my johndeer 4020hope this helps a little, as the > forum is getting more political then helpfull to people like > us...jimbull > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > -- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Kevin Shea
Jimbull, Operating a poly drum filled with hot oil at 225 deg F sounds like an accident waiting to happen. Just stop and think for awhile what your response will be when the side of the drum tears and dumps (I assume) 55 gallons of hot oil around your work area. Why not use a metal drum just for safety's sake? Threading a metal heater element into the soft metal wall of the poly drum sounds like another accident waiting to happen. I am sorry, but as a Professional Engineer I cannot be still over these simple but dangerous issues. Please look a bit farther ahead and save yourself some time spent in bandages and the hospital burn unit (if available). Don't be so focused on near term gains that you forget to look at long term losses. Art Krenzel - Original Message - From: tazmaniantoo To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 6:30 AM Subject: [biofuel] Kevin Shea Mr Shea, I saw your message and I also was wondering about a seperate "processor" for incoming raw if you will, wvo. I came up with a poly drum that I had with two 4500 watt water heater elements. If you go with a thermostate, you won't get them hot enough, least mine didn't, so I went w/o it and set them on a reostate (a30amp one is strong enough) and I can get 225 degree plus out of it. My barrel has sides strong enough to run the elements into and they tap threads themselves (metal vs plastic) however, I do not trust just that so I put a generous layer of metal set around the element and that will stict to anything and it holds very well. I have a 30gal fumeless processor built on the plans from the web site at journey to forever. I made some additions to it, as I have it set up to draw wvo in, circutlate in the hot water heater, draw the meth in and then transfer to the was tank and finally pump it out all using the same pump. I used pex tubing and valves on all the set up and it works great. I do 25 gals at a time and thats 5 gal of meth/lye mix at a time and get around 22 gal or so back. runs great in my johndeer 4020hope this helps a little, as the forum is getting more political then helpfull to people like us...jimbull Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Kevin Shea
> Mr Shea, I saw your message and I also was wondering about a > seperate "processor" for incoming raw if you will, wvo. I came up > with a poly drum that I had with two 4500 watt water heater > elements. If you go with a thermostate, you won't get them hot > enough, least mine didn't, so I went w/o it and set them on a > reostate (a30amp one is strong enough) and I can get 225 degree plus > out of it. My barrel has sides strong enough to run the elements > into and Thanks for the info. Where do you get the two 4500 watt heaters? Canabolized water heater? I saw the horror when heater elements heat too much on poly drums or poly conacle tanks. Why not go all metal on the incoming raw WVO tank? Is 225F too hot for poly? I'm pretty sure 140F, poly starts to "melt" away. I assume the 225F is in the water heater module temp? > the set up and it works great. I do 25 gals at a time and thats 5 > gal of meth/lye mix at a time and get around 22 gal or so back. Sounds like 25 gal batches is the way to go for me. I can just pour the 5 gal meth from the container, since I purchase meth in 5 gal pails-no need to measure! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Kevin Shea
Mr Shea, I saw your message and I also was wondering about a seperate "processor" for incoming raw if you will, wvo. I came up with a poly drum that I had with two 4500 watt water heater elements. If you go with a thermostate, you won't get them hot enough, least mine didn't, so I went w/o it and set them on a reostate (a30amp one is strong enough) and I can get 225 degree plus out of it. My barrel has sides strong enough to run the elements into and they tap threads themselves (metal vs plastic) however, I do not trust just that so I put a generous layer of metal set around the element and that will stict to anything and it holds very well. I have a 30gal fumeless processor built on the plans from the web site at journey to forever. I made some additions to it, as I have it set up to draw wvo in, circutlate in the hot water heater, draw the meth in and then transfer to the was tank and finally pump it out all using the same pump. I used pex tubing and valves on all the set up and it works great. I do 25 gals at a time and thats 5 gal of meth/lye mix at a time and get around 22 gal or so back. runs great in my johndeer 4020hope this helps a little, as the forum is getting more political then helpfull to people like us...jimbull Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
