[biofuel] Mobile BD plant loading/ unloading
Dana Linscott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The sliding frame lowboys I was referring to in an earlier post are used for transport of large farm equipment in the US and are not the types later posters described. These are very simple to build and sturdy. They do not have drop tails but rather are flat. The axles are mounted on a sliding subframe which by unlatching the pins holding it to the main frame and dropping in pins to prevent wheel rotation allow the main frame to be slid back by backing the tow vehicle. Bloody brilliant. And besides cheapness, the obvious advantage over side-loaders is the possibility of extracting a container from tight places. The majority of the trailers I have seen have high flotation tires(to allow use on unimproved roads and fields) and a simple but sturdy suspension. While not designed for high speed I have used them myself at 50 mph which I would consider the max top speed. This is the part I don't get. Conventional low-pressure tires tend to be large in diameter, which in turn requires a lot of clearance from the ground. How do they get around this? Not that it really matters, now that I think of it - it's easy to carry matting or planks along for moving the trailer a short distance off a compacted surface. You may also wish to consider reinforcing the container and attaching three legged supports near the corners which could be swung down or carried along and assembled when the unit is moved on a flatbed. As long as it's handled by the corners, reinforcement should not be necessary, so I would just make the supports removable and attach them to the lower corners for handling. I like this idea - I was fumbling for something similar but could not get the stability I wanted. Low trailer plus tripod wins the day! Simple hydraulic jacks could then be used to raise the container up the required few inches to a foot so that the trailer could be pulled out. That part's easy - it was lowering the container to the pad afterward that I could not figure out. Building up the pad to meet the container, plus a low trailer height, solve this problem. If you constructed a trailer which allows the side of the container to extend out a foot or so from the edge of the trailer you could even simply use hydraulic jacks and blocking to raise and lower the container. This is what I did for my houseboat (14 ton) and after a little practice I could unload it in about half an hour by myself. 15 minutes with help. 2 jacks= $60us and blocking (cut up old railroad ties) $80us. Set directly upon the blocking it is quite stable. As long as one is building equipment for the purpose, it makes sense to do the tripod thing and save a lot of labor and danger! Unless you have several containers to move I wonder if your best bet would not be to simply construct a robust trailer and leave the unit on it. Exactly what my father-in-law wants to do with my personal trailer. As for the BD plant, it probably makes more sense here to build it on a trailer in the first place. Still, containers have obvious advantages in any scheme that involves centralized production of plants, which might very well be needed for viability in the long term. Our group has decided to use a heavy 20' flatbed trailer and weld reinforcing skids to the bottom of the container which allow the wheel wells of the trailer to fit under the bottom of the container. This will allow the trailer to be used for other things as well (gathering WVO). We will then construct a low platform (about 3' high)with railroad ties and soil at each place we intend to place the container. The container will simply be winched on and off the trailer. The skids will of course make the container non-shippable by ocean - at least not as a standard container. I gather that doesn't matter. If need be we can simply pull up the timbers and scatter the soil to abandon a site...and reuse the timbers. Exactly. Again, many thanks! Marc de Piolenc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Mobile BD plant loading/ unloading
Message: 1 Thanks for the continuing input to the container load/unload solution. It's really amazing how many ingenious ideas there are out there. For obvious reasons I favor solutions that don't require improvements at each drop site - there could be very many of those in a country where the longest distance that a coconut usually travels to market is a few miles! Lowboy trailers won't last long on Filipino roads, so they're out. But I am intrigued by one listmember's mentioning trucks or trailers with integral side-loading hydraulic lifts and support pads. I went back to my calcs that seemed to show that such things would be impractically heavy...and of course found an error. It turns out that, with outriggers extending eight feet to one side, such a truck could handle a 20 tonne container while weighing no more than four to eight tonnes itself, depending on weight distribution. With two axles on the semi-trailer and two support axles on the tractor, that is completely practical. OOF. What David T is saying here makes a lot of sense and is probably the most appropriate to the Phillipines. If you make a couple of H frames complete with outrigger tripod stays, use a couple of connectors to join the 2 H frames together, and a couple of chain blocks, you can drive to where you want the container located, set up your H frames, lift the container about 6, drive the truck out, and lower the container. Uplifting and shifting the container is obviously the reverse. That makes a LOT of sense. I would only add baulks of timber to keep the frames from sinking into the soil, and some screw anchors and guys to keep the thing from racking. My father-in-law and I were sketching something with A-frames which ended up pretty unwieldly, then I tried something with jacks at all four lower corners, but there was just too much travel required. Your scheme should work. - Original Message - From: David Teal [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 11:08 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Mobile BD plant John Brewer helpfully wrote: Self loading trailers are used extensivly in Australia. The Lifting arms ar on hydrolic rams and can be adjusted to suit 20 40 foot containers, and can postion a 20 footer to correctly position the weight distribution on the trailer When I was working in rural Africa, such luxuries were unheard of, but we managed to unload some fair sized loads with improvised, cheap but effective means. One of the better systems was to erect two guyed goalpost frames from stout wood poles. Chain block hoists were lashed to the middle of each crossbar. The delivery truck would drive under the gantry, the load was raised, and the truck would back out or drive through. The load could then be lowered onto skids on the ground and be winched (Tirfor etc.) to its desired location. Of course, the goalpost gantry has to be proof loaded first with dummy loads like plywood boxes filled with sand (easy to create and dismantle with hand tools only). I reckon this approach is still appropriate to places like Philippines, Marc. Yesss. Of course, we'll probably still end up with semi-trailers because cargo containers are precious here, but you never know. In any case, one of these tricks will no doubt serve when I need to lift my own container to build up the pad a bit, as each rainy season sees the airspace under the container getting smaller... Best to all, Marc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Mobile BD plant loading/ unloading
Marc, The sliding frame lowboys I was referring to in an earlier post are used for transport of large farm equipment in the US and are not the types later posters described. These are very simple to build and sturdy. They do not have drop tails but rather are flat. The axles are mounted on a sliding subframe which by unlatching the pins holding it to the main frame and dropping in pins to prevent wheel rotation allow the main frame to be slid back by backing the tow vehicle. This causes the mainframe to drop its rear end to a very low angle and equipment can then be driven or winched on from the rear to the front to until much of the weight is cover the axles. With the wheels still immobilized the tow vehicle then drags the mainframe (there are actually rollers) forward until the weight is distributed as desired on the axles. The subframe is then repinned to the mainframe and the wheels freed to rotate. The majority of the trailers I have seen have high flotation tires(to allow use on unimproved roads and fields) and a simple but sturdy suspension. While not designed for high speed I have used them myself at 50 mph which I would consider the max top speed. You may also wish to consider reinforcing the container and attaching three legged supports near the corners which could be swung down or carried along and assembled when the unit is moved on a flatbed. A lowboy flatbed would allow them to be short. These could be set up with the third leg pointing away from the unit and the two remaining within inches of the side of the trailer. Simple hydraulic jacks could then be used to raise the container up the required few inches to a foot so that the trailer could be pulled out. If you constructed a trailer which allows the side of the container to extend out a foot or so from the edge of the trailer you could even simply use hydraulic jacks and blocking to raise and lower the container. This is what I did for my houseboat (14 ton) and after a little practice I could unload it in about half an hour by myself. 15 minutes with help. 2 jacks= $60us and blocking (cut up old railroad ties) $80us. Set directly upon the blocking it is quite stable. Unless you have several containers to move I wonder if your best bet would not be to simply construct a robust trailer and leave the unit on it. Our group has decided to use a heavy 20' flatbed trailer and weld reinforcing skids to the bottom of the container which allow the wheel wells of the trailer to fit under the bottom of the container. This will allow the trailer to be used for other things as well (gathering WVO). We will then construct a low platform (about 3' high)with railroad ties and soil at each place we intend to place the container. The container will simply be winched on and off the trailer. If need be we can simply pull up the timbers and scatter the soil to abandon a site...and reuse the timbers. best of luck, Dana __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Mobile BD plant loading/ unloading
Of course it might be simpler to just build earthen ramps or raised docks(sunken ramps?)at each point of use if these are relativly fixed and just winch the unit on and off the truck/trailer. Rollers would help or even lubed cross beams like the Egyptians are rumored to have used to transport large stone blocks. Certainly safer than trying to lift the units off. I have also seen slip axle lowboy trailers which allow a load to be winched on to the trailer bed at a low angle and then the axle subframe is pushed back under the trailer bed by the truck backing up and the two are pinned together for transport. Dana --- David Reid [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Marc, What David T is saying here makes a lot of sense and is probably the most appropriate to the Phillipines. If you make a couple of H frames complete with outrigger tripod stays, use a couple of connectors to join the 2 H frames together, and a couple of chain blocks, you can drive to where you want the container located, set up your H frames, lift the container about 6, drive the truck out, and lower the container. Uplifting and shifting the container is obviously the reverse. You could make the whole framework of steel which all linked together using lynch pins, which could be stored on top of the container for transport, and quickly erected once on site. With 3 or 4 people you could have it all unloaded in about 1/2 hr. Very easy and very simple. By breaking it down into components you could make it so 2 men could do the whole job by themselves if necessary. Lynch pins would make it very easy. My only advice is to make sure all welding is properly done as you dont want any accidents. Also use welded buttressing (bracing) for added strength and support where required. B.r., David - Original Message - From: David Teal [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 11:08 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Mobile BD plant John Brewer helpfully wrote: Self loading trailers are used extensivly in Australia. The Lifting arms ar on hydrolic rams and can be adjusted to suit 20 40 foot containers, and can postion a 20 footer to correctly position the weight distribution on the trailer When I was working in rural Africa, such luxuries were unheard of, but we managed to unload some fair sized loads with improvised, cheap but effective means. One of the better systems was to erect two guyed goalpost frames from stout wood poles. Chain block hoists were lashed to the middle of each crossbar. The delivery truck would drive under the gantry, the load was raised, and the truck would back out or drive through. The load could then be lowered onto skids on the ground and be winched (Tirfor etc.) to its desired location. Of course, the goalpost gantry has to be proof loaded first with dummy loads like plywood boxes filled with sand (easy to create and dismantle with hand tools only). I reckon this approach is still appropriate to places like Philippines, Marc. David Teal Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Mobile BD plant loading/ unloading
I have also seen slip axle lowboy trailers which allow a load to be winched on to the trailer bed at a low angle and then the axle subframe is pushed back under the trailer bed by the truck backing up and the two are pinned together for transport. Most often that is a beaver tail trailer where the back of the trailer is angled downward and the bed is tilted to lower the tail. Sometimes the beaver tail is hydrulic and is moved as necessary. Another version is where the goose neck is detached when the front of the trailer is lowered. This is often used for the heavy haulers. A variation offten used in the oil fields is a flat bed trailer where the nose is allowed to fall to the ground where the load may be driven on. A truck mounted winch can then be used to lift and reconnect the trailer. An advantage of that arrangement is that the truck mounted winch can be used to pull on a dead load. Another poster mentioned a crane. A jack leg (or stiff legged) tripod is a very old device. Three poles are connected at one end in such a way that as they are opened into a tripod, the top tightens. A hoist is attached at the top. When done, fold it up and take it away. Of one leg is securly held to the ground with a deadman, another pole can be added to make it a crane. Midevil construction projects used the jack leg crane. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
