[biofuel] Re: rant F-ing Bosch!
x-charset ISO-8859-1That's right, it could be because it is a big corporation, with a few bitter employees whose positions are protected by the union, or it could be a bosch thing, we don't know. But I believe it is beyond unfair to say that it is because they are german! It is not ethnic origin that mads your experiences so negative. Let us not forget that in the US, the largest ethnic origin, by far, is German, (nearly 60 million!) - English is a very distant 3rd at around 23 million (US bureau of statistics website) - The germans have brought enormous creativity, ingenuity and their vision of culture and intellectual pursuit to the US. The US would be a very different place today were it not for them. Pierre (not German) --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Alan Petrillo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know, Hakan. It's an unfair generalization. It's just that on the, admittedly few, occasions that I've had to deal with German businesses it's been like beating my head against a wall. It could just be that they've been big corporations, and they're just behaving like big corporations everywhere. It was that enviro-crackpots crack that really got me, though. AP Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
Re: [biofuel] Re: rant F-ing Bosch!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's right, it could be because it is a big corporation, with a few bitter employees whose positions are protected by the union, or it could be a bosch thing, we don't know. But I believe it is beyond unfair to say that it is because they are german! It is not ethnic origin that mads your experiences so negative. Unfair generalization, agreed. Let us not forget that in the US, the largest ethnic origin, by far, is German, (nearly 60 million!) - English is a very distant 3rd at around 23 million (US bureau of statistics website) - The germans have brought enormous creativity, ingenuity and their vision of culture and intellectual pursuit to the US. The US would be a very different place today were it not for them. So they are, and so it would be. Indeed, the number of Germans over here probably explains why the Guvmint, and some pig headed biggots, failed to wipe out German cultural influences here during the Second World War. One statement that I can make without reservation is that all of the Germans that I know personally, and by that I mean German nationals, are good upstanding people. It is just Bosch and BundesTelekom that I have problems with. AP Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Re: rant F-ing Bosch!
You have to admit though that there are distinct differences between people from different nations. My experience with German nationals is pretty limited so I can't pretend to be an expert, but I can say that the handful of Germans I have met and known in my life all shared distinct behavioral characteristics and philosophical points of view regardless of their social position or the context I knew them in. Likewise Germany as a nation is renowned for high craftsmanship and over engineered products. Is this just random chance or due to real cultural differences? Like any other stereotype, there is a kernel of truth within. But what this thread was originally talking about, that is poor customer service from Bosch, may or may not be due to the fact that it is a German company. I own a classic German automobile, and my experiences with German parts manufacturers and distributors is utterly unlike those with American companies, yet strangely similar to the Bosch story related on this list. It has been my experience that if you don't ask Germans pointed questions, they get pissed off because they feel that you're wasting their time. Whereas Americans will BS with you to help you figure out exactly what you need. -BRAH -Original Message- From: Alan Petrillo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 2:13 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: rant F-ing Bosch! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's right, it could be because it is a big corporation, with a few bitter employees whose positions are protected by the union, or it could be a bosch thing, we don't know. But I believe it is beyond unfair to say that it is because they are german! It is not ethnic origin that mads your experiences so negative. Unfair generalization, agreed. Let us not forget that in the US, the largest ethnic origin, by far, is German, (nearly 60 million!) - English is a very distant 3rd at around 23 million (US bureau of statistics website) - The germans have brought enormous creativity, ingenuity and their vision of culture and intellectual pursuit to the US. The US would be a very different place today were it not for them. So they are, and so it would be. Indeed, the number of Germans over here probably explains why the Guvmint, and some pig headed biggots, failed to wipe out German cultural influences here during the Second World War. One statement that I can make without reservation is that all of the Germans that I know personally, and by that I mean German nationals, are good upstanding people. It is just Bosch and BundesTelekom that I have problems with. AP [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: rant F-ing Bosch!
Go Hoff wrote: Is it the groups general census that Bosh is not consumer friendly - but worse that they seem to have the monopoly on the diesel/SVO/WVO pumps we need? So far I've got to agree. I have written and telephoned, mailed and faxed all the Bosh leads I could find here (sweden) enquiring if there is or was a Bosh pump which could replace the Lucas CAV crap that my favorite vehicle is lumbered with. I have been passed like the buck all over or just ignored to date and I am no wiser - zilch. An old retired pump expert I met said 'yes, if there wasn't a specific then choose what you want and combine a few bits to get the combo you want, re do some fittings maybe' though he dos'nt have the bits or contacts anymore. I'm wondering if there are other pump manufacturors or engineering ventures who might be keen to get in on a growing nisch market and make a pupose built bullet proof pump which would fit onto any number of face plates, a sort of universal pump with plates for different fits - I mean there must be more of us around now than eg. Ed Pink and Kieth Black base their businesses on (Top fuel Drag racing) and they're doing OK last I heard. Then there is OEM replacement market and... From what I understand, the Bosch pumps are close to what you're talking about. The VE pumps, particularly, are in practically every 4 cylinder diesel built in the last 20 years, right up the the advent of common rail injection systems. All it really takes is minor changes to output fittings, drive systems, and mounts, and the VE pumps can be made to fit pretty much anything. I've heard somebody say something about a VM pump, but I haven't been able to find anything on it. There's also a VR pump, which is basically a VE with some electronic control involved. The VE type pumps are usually used in 4 and 5 cylinder engines. From what I've seen of GM products, they use a Stanadyne rotary pump similar to a Bosch VE, but set up for 8 cylinders. Engines with more than 5 cylinders usually use inline pumps, because when you get a VE pump for more than 5 cylinders the main shaft has to oscillate too fast, and the pumps tend to wear out quickly. Just look at the Stanadyne pumps in GM products. From what I understand the general rule is that you'll replace the pump every 80,000 miles or so. The Bosch PE inline pumps used on Cummins and Mercedes products will last practically forever, from what I understand. AP Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: rant F-ing Bosch!
Is it the groups general census that Bosh is not consumer friendly - but worse that they seem to have the monopoly on the diesel/SVO/WVO pumps we need? So far I've got to agree. I have written and telephoned, mailed and faxed all the Bosh leads I could find here (sweden) enquiring if there is or was a Bosh pump which could replace the Lucas CAV crap that my favorite vehicle is lumbered with. I have been passed like the buck all over or just ignored to date and I am no wiser - zilch. An old retired pump expert I met said 'yes, if there wasn't a specific then choose what you want and combine a few bits to get the combo you want, re do some fittings maybe' though he dos'nt have the bits or contacts anymore. I'm wondering if there are other pump manufacturors or engineering ventures who might be keen to get in on a growing nisch market and make a pupose built bullet proof pump which would fit onto any number of face plates, a sort of universal pump with plates for different fits - I mean there must be more of us around now than eg. Ed Pink and Kieth Black base their businesses on (Top fuel Drag racing) and they're doing OK last I heard. Then there is OEM replacement market and... Just a thought. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: rant F-ing Bosch!
Hello Go Hoff Is it the groups general census that Bosh is not consumer friendly - but worse that they seem to have the monopoly on the diesel/SVO/WVO pumps we need? So far I've got to agree. I have written and telephoned, mailed and faxed all the Bosh leads I could find here (sweden) enquiring if there is or was a Bosh pump which could replace the Lucas CAV crap that my favorite vehicle is lumbered with. I have been passed like the buck all over or just ignored to date and I am no wiser - zilch. An old retired pump expert I met said 'yes, if there wasn't a specific then choose what you want and combine a few bits to get the combo you want, re do some fittings maybe' though he dos'nt have the bits or contacts anymore. I'm wondering if there are other pump manufacturors or engineering ventures who might be keen to get in on a growing nisch market and make a pupose built bullet proof pump which would fit onto any number of face plates, a sort of universal pump with plates for different fits - I mean there must be more of us around now than eg. Ed Pink and Kieth Black base their businesses on (Top fuel Drag racing) and they're doing OK last I heard. Then there is OEM replacement market and... Just a thought. There are such companies in China, very interested in exports. Can't give you any names offhand, but a search should turn up something. Best wishes Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: rant F-ing Bosch!
x-charset ISO-8859-1Hakan I read your posts with wonder at the common sense you normally write - probably because I am of the same age group! However, in this case I think you have got it wrong. On 17 Nov 03 I wrote to a Director of Robert Bosch concerning the need for a recall notice regarding one of their faulty products. To date I have not had the courtesy of a reply. I think you are living in the past if you think of large German companies being responsive and responsible. It is particularly ironic in view of the fact that they quote these words of Robert Bosch on their web site: It has always been an unbearable thought to me that someone could inspect one of my products and find it inferior in any way. For that reason I have constantly tried to produce products which withstand the closest scrutiny - products which prove themselves superior in every respect.. It seems to me that perhaps it is the Bosch employees who consider themselves to be superior in every respect! I agree with Alan and his F-ing Bosch rant. Best Stuart --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Alan, I think it is an awful experience, but you are a bit unfair in referring to it as a German company experience. I would say that it is a typical US support person experience and that is from my experiences. If it would have been a German, you would generally been met with a more serious discussion and without stupid side comments. I am not saying that it is typical for US either, but when it happens, this kind of arrogance is not the German way. You can find them square headed sometimes, but not like this. Hakan Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
Re: [biofuel] Re: rant F-ing Bosch!
Stuart, I have spent 10+ years running European organizations and a good part with involvement in and with US businesses. My reaction was not if it was good support or not, these problems are spread equal. My reaction was on the guy's arrogant side comments and lack of knowledge, not that he have to follow company policies, if they were such policies. I get furious if I learn that a support person act arrogant and make stupid side comments. Cynical jokes belongs to private time and not company time. It gives the company a bad image and generally the German companies in Germany does not tolerate this kind of behavior and most European too (do not include UK and France). I would not have had the patience with the guy as Alan had, I would have called a top guy in Germany. Hakan At 10:45 20/01/2004, you wrote: Hakan I read your posts with wonder at the common sense you normally write - probably because I am of the same age group! However, in this case I think you have got it wrong. On 17 Nov 03 I wrote to a Director of Robert Bosch concerning the need for a recall notice regarding one of their faulty products. To date I have not had the courtesy of a reply. I think you are living in the past if you think of large German companies being responsive and responsible. It is particularly ironic in view of the fact that they quote these words of Robert Bosch on their web site: It has always been an unbearable thought to me that someone could inspect one of my products and find it inferior in any way. For that reason I have constantly tried to produce products which withstand the closest scrutiny - products which prove themselves superior in every respect.. It seems to me that perhaps it is the Bosch employees who consider themselves to be superior in every respect! I agree with Alan and his F-ing Bosch rant. Best Stuart --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Alan, I think it is an awful experience, but you are a bit unfair in referring to it as a German company experience. I would say that it is a typical US support person experience and that is from my experiences. If it would have been a German, you would generally been met with a more serious discussion and without stupid side comments. I am not saying that it is typical for US either, but when it happens, this kind of arrogance is not the German way. You can find them square headed sometimes, but not like this. Hakan Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
