Re: [biofuel] Vinegar into oil - Oil Sources
I agree that we need to look and keep looking at actual processes to try and find ways to do things better, to look for lost opportunities. Probably wine is best used as an already fermented feedstock for ethanol fuel. Don't know the current price, but relatively decent table wine in Spain used to be cheaper than bottled water. To my knowledge it is difficult to reverse the process that causes vinegar. You're probably stuck with it. The grape pits are a nice source for oil as it is a byproduct that isn't used for anything else (that I know of). There should be literally tons of grape mashings left over from the production of wine. Rather than have them just go to waste, potentially you have a good source of energy. I don't think it was very cheap to extract the oil for edible use -- based on the price that they sold the grape seed oil in the health food store. However, as someone pointed out, oil extraction could be a lot cheaper if one doesn't care if the end result is an edible oil. There are probably other sources of oil in plants stems and similar that we just haven't ever thought about. I think to that we need to look for things where we benefit twice or more. The prime example of this is the utilization of waste cooking oil. Here is something that has been used already and generally has just been discarded. When we use it a second time in the production of biodiesel, we are gaining a big benefit. In Spain, and Europe in general, (and I fear most of the rest of the world) the big waste product that should be coming down the line will be the rendering of all the animals exposed to BSE and FMD. There will be and have been literally millions upon millions of animals destroyed. This amounts to a huge source of oil that could be used in the production of biodiesel. Regards, Derek W. Hargis - Original Message - From: Pedro M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 5:20 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Vinegar into oil And to be converted into biodiesel ??. There is a lot of wine production in Spain and the European Union could help to sell this superavit ( excess ). It could be interesting with the nowadays european union agriculture politics. We need a lot of oil to be used instead of petrol . How much source we could get, cheaper and more accesible it will be : - Vegoil from any class of grain ( grape, lemon residues - grains - used in another processes ) and vegetable. - Vegoil from vegetable waste oil. - Biodiesel from milk ( there is a lot of milk in the European Union - superavit know like black milk - ). There is a problem with the olive oil : the price. And in the future perhaps with the sunflower oil : if there is not enought the price will rise. So, one can say : convert everything into vegoil or biodiesel. We can research or publish the production process and later use it if there is political help ( excess of production in the raw material ) to be economically interesting ;) - Original Message - From: dhargis1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 2:34 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Vinegar into oil I think the problem with both, ethanol and acetic acid, vinegar, is that the carbon chain isn't long enough. There are reactions to combine carbon chains and lengthen them, but I don't know if they would be cheap enough to compete with what nature does for you in the form of naturally occurring oils. Spain has a lot of other natural oils. They are one of the world's largest producers of olives, several different nuts, and the last time I visited, there were huge fields of sunflowers. Derek W. Hargis - Original Message - From: Pedro M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Vinegar into oil What about get oil from vinegar ?? :? ( CH3-COOH ) or similar vinegar bypass product ???. - Original Message - From: dhargis1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 1:09 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Alcohol into biodiesel There is a very fine edible oil made from grape pits in Spain. A very nice delicate oil, fabulous for salads, unfortunately, quite expensive. I am not aware of any economical process to turn ethanol into a usable oil. Derek W. Hargis [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Pedro M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 2:17 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Alcohol into biodiesel But in any way, can one get oil from alcohol or from vineyard ???. This is interesting, because in Spain there is a lot of vineyard production ( grapes ) that could be used to produce some class of oil . Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
Re: [biofuel] Vinegar into oil - Oil Sources
I like a lot your letter. But we can use alcohol to produce diesel, if possible, because we have now ready diesel motors ;) You are right : use of unused material ( grape pits ), the reutlization of waste vegoil and the use of the animoil from animals destroyed. Because of this I have joined to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bio-oil ( bio-oil = vegoil or oil derivated from animals, animoil ). I will forward your letter there, because it«s interesting for all the researches. All the best. ;) Pedro. Elabore caseramente biodiesel para su actual motor de gasoil petrolfero La solucin a sus problemas energticos. http://sitio.de/energia http://journeytoforever.org/energiaweb/ - Original Message - From: dhargis1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 12:46 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Vinegar into oil - Oil Sources I agree that we need to look and keep looking at actual processes to try and find ways to do things better, to look for lost opportunities. Probably wine is best used as an already fermented feedstock for ethanol fuel. Don't know the current price, but relatively decent table wine in Spain used to be cheaper than bottled water. To my knowledge it is difficult to reverse the process that causes vinegar. You're probably stuck with it. The grape pits are a nice source for oil as it is a byproduct that isn't used for anything else (that I know of). There should be literally tons of grape mashings left over from the production of wine. Rather than have them just go to waste, potentially you have a good source of energy. I don't think it was very cheap to extract the oil for edible use -- based on the price that they sold the grape seed oil in the health food store. However, as someone pointed out, oil extraction could be a lot cheaper if one doesn't care if the end result is an edible oil. There are probably other sources of oil in plants stems and similar that we just haven't ever thought about. I think to that we need to look for things where we benefit twice or more. The prime example of this is the utilization of waste cooking oil. Here is something that has been used already and generally has just been discarded. When we use it a second time in the production of biodiesel, we are gaining a big benefit. In Spain, and Europe in general, (and I fear most of the rest of the world) the big waste product that should be coming down the line will be the rendering of all the animals exposed to BSE and FMD. There will be and have been literally millions upon millions of animals destroyed. This amounts to a huge source of oil that could be used in the production of biodiesel. Regards, Derek W. Hargis - Original Message - From: Pedro M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 5:20 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Vinegar into oil And to be converted into biodiesel ??. There is a lot of wine production in Spain and the European Union could help to sell this superavit ( excess ). It could be interesting with the nowadays european union agriculture politics. We need a lot of oil to be used instead of petrol . How much source we could get, cheaper and more accesible it will be : - Vegoil from any class of grain ( grape, lemon residues - grains - used in another processes ) and vegetable. - Vegoil from vegetable waste oil. - Biodiesel from milk ( there is a lot of milk in the European Union - superavit know like black milk - ). There is a problem with the olive oil : the price. And in the future perhaps with the sunflower oil : if there is not enought the price will rise. So, one can say : convert everything into vegoil or biodiesel. We can research or publish the production process and later use it if there is political help ( excess of production in the raw material ) to be economically interesting ;) - Original Message - From: dhargis1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 2:34 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Vinegar into oil I think the problem with both, ethanol and acetic acid, vinegar, is that the carbon chain isn't long enough. There are reactions to combine carbon chains and lengthen them, but I don't know if they would be cheap enough to compete with what nature does for you in the form of naturally occurring oils. Spain has a lot of other natural oils. They are one of the world's largest producers of olives, several different nuts, and the last time I visited, there were huge fields of sunflowers. Derek W. Hargis - Original Message - From: Pedro M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Vinegar into oil What about get oil from vinegar ?? :? ( CH3-COOH ) or similar vinegar bypass product ???. - Original Message - From: dhargis1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 1:09
