Re: @SPAM+++++++++ Re: [Biofuel] liquid glycerine
I agree with you Todd. All chemical reactions of this kind carries a number of side reactions, but the amount or appetence of the glycerol cocktail cannot be used for judging the success of the transesterification(unless it is 10% by mass), but a determination of the content of the glycerol cocktail might give a clue. Jan Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 4:55 PM Subject: @SPAM+ Re: [Biofuel] liquid glycerine Jan Paul, It seems to me that you produced some soap that time. All base processing creates soap. What everyone keeps referring to as glycerine settling out of a transesterification (base) reaction is for the most part soap, diluted with methanol and glycerol. The volume of glycerol per liter of oil processed is ~7.9% (~79 mililiters). The excess alcohol present in this layer (glycerin cocktail) is ~65ml when initially using 200 ml per liter. The balance is soap. Different oil and fat feedstocks produce different types of soap. If your feestock was primarily soybean oil on Monday but coconut oil on Tuesday, the latter would in general yield a more solid glyc cocktail. If the feedstocks were soybean oil on both days but Tuesday's was extremely degraded (high FFA) then the latter would yield a harder glyc cocktail. If the feedstock on Monday had less animal fat in it than that on Tuesday the latter would generally yield a harder or more viscous glyc cocktail. The same happens when using different catalysts. In soap making sodium hydroxide (lye) is used to produce bar soaps (hard) and potassium hydroxide is used to produce liquid soaps (solid like thick bread dough but more soluble). When using potassium hydroxide the glyc cocktail generally never thickens beyond that of maple syrup. Hardened or thinned glyc cocktails don't necessarily indicate mistakes or correctness in processing. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 3:01 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] liquid glycerine Hello Paul. It seems to me that you produced some soap that time. Did you measure the FFA content before starting ? Best regards Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Paul Tanner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 1:00 AM Subject: [Biofuel] liquid glycerine Hi, I've been making Biodiesel (BD) for a few months, now.. using the Mike Pelly method.. and a curious thing happened with the last batch (my batches are in approx. 160 - 180 litres).. the glycerine was liquid after the reaction. This is the first time this has occurred for me, all other times the glycerine formed and settle in my tank, and was solid at low temperatures. I had measured accurately, the quantities of methanol, caustic soda and volume of oil...( I had an interested observer, who can testify if required!! :-) ) I watched the colour of the mixture change, as I was agitating, from a light caramel colour to a dark molasses colour... then observed the glycerine start to settle, as expected. At this time the glycerine was quite warm, so was still liquid, however, I let the mixture settle for a 2 week period and the glycerine has not set firm. maybe I should not complain.. 'cos it was easy to drain out of the tank! :-) Did the reaction not go far enough? Any further ideas on what has happened?? regards, Paul. --- Paul Tanner Software IT Architect Melbourne, Australia ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: 3/27/2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL
Re: [Biofuel] liquid glycerine
Hello Paul. It seems to me that you produced some soap that time. Did you measure the FFA content before starting ? Best regards Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Paul Tanner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 1:00 AM Subject: [Biofuel] liquid glycerine Hi, I've been making Biodiesel (BD) for a few months, now.. using the Mike Pelly method.. and a curious thing happened with the last batch (my batches are in approx. 160 - 180 litres).. the glycerine was liquid after the reaction. This is the first time this has occurred for me, all other times the glycerine formed and settle in my tank, and was solid at low temperatures. I had measured accurately, the quantities of methanol, caustic soda and volume of oil...( I had an interested observer, who can testify if required!! :-) ) I watched the colour of the mixture change, as I was agitating, from a light caramel colour to a dark molasses colour... then observed the glycerine start to settle, as expected. At this time the glycerine was quite warm, so was still liquid, however, I let the mixture settle for a 2 week period and the glycerine has not set firm. maybe I should not complain.. 'cos it was easy to drain out of the tank! :-) Did the reaction not go far enough? Any further ideas on what has happened?? regards, Paul. --- Paul Tanner Software IT Architect Melbourne, Australia ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] liquid glycerine
It doesn't make any difference, other than that as you say it's a lot easier to work with when it's liquid. Please see: How much glycerine? Why isn't it solid? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#howmuchglyc All is explained. If you want liquid glyc by-product, use KOH, for details of which see the same page: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html Make your own biodiesel: Journey to Forever Best wishes Keith Hi, I've been making Biodiesel (BD) for a few months, now.. using the Mike Pelly method.. and a curious thing happened with the last batch (my batches are in approx. 160 - 180 litres).. the glycerine was liquid after the reaction. This is the first time this has occurred for me, all other times the glycerine formed and settle in my tank, and was solid at low temperatures. I had measured accurately, the quantities of methanol, caustic soda and volume of oil...( I had an interested observer, who can testify if required!! :-) ) I watched the colour of the mixture change, as I was agitating, from a light caramel colour to a dark molasses colour... then observed the glycerine start to settle, as expected. At this time the glycerine was quite warm, so was still liquid, however, I let the mixture settle for a 2 week period and the glycerine has not set firm. maybe I should not complain.. 'cos it was easy to drain out of the tank! :-) Did the reaction not go far enough? Any further ideas on what has happened?? regards, Paul. --- Paul Tanner Software IT Architect Melbourne, Australia ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] liquid glycerine
It seems to me that you produced some soap that time. All base processing creates soap. What everyone keeps referring to as glycerine settling out of a transesterification (base) reaction is for the most part soap, diluted with methanol and glycerol. The volume of glycerol per liter of oil processed is ~7.9% (~79 mililiters). The excess alcohol present in this layer (glycerin cocktail) is ~65ml when initially using 200 ml per liter. The balance is soap. Different oil and fat feedstocks produce different types of soap. If your feestock was primarily soybean oil on Monday but coconut oil on Tuesday, the latter would in general yield a more solid glyc cocktail. If the feedstocks were soybean oil on both days but Tuesday's was extremely degraded (high FFA) then the latter would yield a harder glyc cocktail. If the feedstock on Monday had less animal fat in it than that on Tuesday the latter would generally yield a harder or more viscous glyc cocktail. The same happens when using different catalysts. In soap making sodium hydroxide (lye) is used to produce bar soaps (hard) and potassium hydroxide is used to produce liquid soaps (solid like thick bread dough but more soluble). When using potassium hydroxide the glyc cocktail generally never thickens beyond that of maple syrup. Hardened or thinned glyc cocktails don't necessarily indicate mistakes or correctness in processing. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 3:01 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] liquid glycerine Hello Paul. It seems to me that you produced some soap that time. Did you measure the FFA content before starting ? Best regards Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Paul Tanner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 1:00 AM Subject: [Biofuel] liquid glycerine Hi, I've been making Biodiesel (BD) for a few months, now.. using the Mike Pelly method.. and a curious thing happened with the last batch (my batches are in approx. 160 - 180 litres).. the glycerine was liquid after the reaction. This is the first time this has occurred for me, all other times the glycerine formed and settle in my tank, and was solid at low temperatures. I had measured accurately, the quantities of methanol, caustic soda and volume of oil...( I had an interested observer, who can testify if required!! :-) ) I watched the colour of the mixture change, as I was agitating, from a light caramel colour to a dark molasses colour... then observed the glycerine start to settle, as expected. At this time the glycerine was quite warm, so was still liquid, however, I let the mixture settle for a 2 week period and the glycerine has not set firm. maybe I should not complain.. 'cos it was easy to drain out of the tank! :-) Did the reaction not go far enough? Any further ideas on what has happened?? regards, Paul. --- Paul Tanner Software IT Architect Melbourne, Australia ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: 3/27/2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] liquid glycerine
Hi, Great information for me working away in the lab. Keep it coming. I'm still trying to come to terms with methanol ( cheap, easy but oh so toxic) and ethanol ( expensive, density separation problems, need for excess as a reactant but great for making products with the glycerine and the occassional party). Any thoughts here? Tom Irwin -Original Message- From: Appal Energy To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 3/30/05 11:55 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] liquid glycerine Jan Paul, It seems to me that you produced some soap that time. All base processing creates soap. What everyone keeps referring to as glycerine settling out of a transesterification (base) reaction is for the most part soap, diluted with methanol and glycerol. The volume of glycerol per liter of oil processed is ~7.9% (~79 mililiters). The excess alcohol present in this layer (glycerin cocktail) is ~65ml when initially using 200 ml per liter. The balance is soap. Different oil and fat feedstocks produce different types of soap. If your feestock was primarily soybean oil on Monday but coconut oil on Tuesday, the latter would in general yield a more solid glyc cocktail. If the feedstocks were soybean oil on both days but Tuesday's was extremely degraded (high FFA) then the latter would yield a harder glyc cocktail. If the feedstock on Monday had less animal fat in it than that on Tuesday the latter would generally yield a harder or more viscous glyc cocktail. The same happens when using different catalysts. In soap making sodium hydroxide (lye) is used to produce bar soaps (hard) and potassium hydroxide is used to produce liquid soaps (solid like thick bread dough but more soluble). When using potassium hydroxide the glyc cocktail generally never thickens beyond that of maple syrup. Hardened or thinned glyc cocktails don't necessarily indicate mistakes or correctness in processing. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 3:01 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] liquid glycerine Hello Paul. It seems to me that you produced some soap that time. Did you measure the FFA content before starting ? Best regards Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Paul Tanner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 1:00 AM Subject: [Biofuel] liquid glycerine Hi, I've been making Biodiesel (BD) for a few months, now.. using the Mike Pelly method.. and a curious thing happened with the last batch (my batches are in approx. 160 - 180 litres).. the glycerine was liquid after the reaction. This is the first time this has occurred for me, all other times the glycerine formed and settle in my tank, and was solid at low temperatures. I had measured accurately, the quantities of methanol, caustic soda and volume of oil...( I had an interested observer, who can testify if required!! :-) ) I watched the colour of the mixture change, as I was agitating, from a light caramel colour to a dark molasses colour... then observed the glycerine start to settle, as expected. At this time the glycerine was quite warm, so was still liquid, however, I let the mixture settle for a 2 week period and the glycerine has not set firm. maybe I should not complain.. 'cos it was easy to drain out of the tank! :-) Did the reaction not go far enough? Any further ideas on what has happened?? regards, Paul. --- Paul Tanner Software IT Architect Melbourne, Australia ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: 3/27/2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
