RE: [biofuel] Brain fart. Any comments
Mark He was posting on the infopop forum as Jonty, from second hand information (from someone who had been called in to have a look at things) he was a farmer based in the Midlands. I don't know much else other than that he sold the project and what is posted at the forum http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpcs=447609751f=159605551m=3606 06161r=170606161#170606161 (this link may be cut you will have to copy and paste it into your browser address bar, possibly in two parts) Darren -Original Message- From: mark schofield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 05 July 2003 13:17 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] Brain fart. Any comments Who was running that project Darren? Mark, Manchester, UK --- Darren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Original Message- From: A Wilkins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 04 July 2003 16:50 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Brain fart. Any comments Hello, first of all this is just a brain fart. I was toying with the idea of community supplied power from a diesel generator running on WVO. I have located several large generators. The one I was toying with was a 650Kw that uses 174 L/h at 100% load. I think that selection of a suitable genset for this fuel type is crucial to such a project. I know of a project here in the UK that set up, running tallow for fuel. The engine was plagued with coking problems which the owner was unable to solve despite bringing in various experts in the field. Eventually he sold the project as a going concern without ever solving the problems. Read this for more info http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpcs=447609751f=159605 551m=3606 06161r=170606161#170606161 If I was involved in such a project and wanted/needed everything to be up and running ASAP with the least problems I'd be looking at indirect injection engines, less energy efficient but also much less likely to have these kind of problems which could kill such an undertaking. It should of course be possible to undertake such with a direct injection engine just that the fact that any engine should run fine on these fuels should not be taken for granted. DI should be considered more experimental (or risky) Darren __ __ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Inkjet cartridges up to 80% off. HP, Epson, Lexmark--we have your brand. Free shipping on every order to the U.S. and Canada! Excellent service. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/QWB0QC/.eUGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Inkjet cartridges up to 80% off. HP, Epson, Lexmark--we have your brand. Free shipping on every order to the U.S. and Canada! Excellent service. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/QWB0QC/.eUGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Brain fart. Any comments
-Original Message- From: A Wilkins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 04 July 2003 16:50 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Brain fart. Any comments Hello, first of all this is just a brain fart. I was toying with the idea of community supplied power from a diesel generator running on WVO. I have located several large generators. The one I was toying with was a 650Kw that uses 174 L/h at 100% load. I think that selection of a suitable genset for this fuel type is crucial to such a project. I know of a project here in the UK that set up, running tallow for fuel. The engine was plagued with coking problems which the owner was unable to solve despite bringing in various experts in the field. Eventually he sold the project as a going concern without ever solving the problems. Read this for more info http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpcs=447609751f=159605551m=3606 06161r=170606161#170606161 If I was involved in such a project and wanted/needed everything to be up and running ASAP with the least problems I'd be looking at indirect injection engines, less energy efficient but also much less likely to have these kind of problems which could kill such an undertaking. It should of course be possible to undertake such with a direct injection engine just that the fact that any engine should run fine on these fuels should not be taken for granted. DI should be considered more experimental (or risky) Darren Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Inkjet cartridges up to 80% off. HP, Epson, Lexmark--we have your brand. Free shipping on every order to the U.S. and Canada! Excellent service. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/QWB0QC/.eUGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Brain fart. Any comments
Who was running that project Darren? Mark, Manchester, UK --- Darren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Original Message- From: A Wilkins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 04 July 2003 16:50 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Brain fart. Any comments Hello, first of all this is just a brain fart. I was toying with the idea of community supplied power from a diesel generator running on WVO. I have located several large generators. The one I was toying with was a 650Kw that uses 174 L/h at 100% load. I think that selection of a suitable genset for this fuel type is crucial to such a project. I know of a project here in the UK that set up, running tallow for fuel. The engine was plagued with coking problems which the owner was unable to solve despite bringing in various experts in the field. Eventually he sold the project as a going concern without ever solving the problems. Read this for more info http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpcs=447609751f=159605551m=3606 06161r=170606161#170606161 If I was involved in such a project and wanted/needed everything to be up and running ASAP with the least problems I'd be looking at indirect injection engines, less energy efficient but also much less likely to have these kind of problems which could kill such an undertaking. It should of course be possible to undertake such with a direct injection engine just that the fact that any engine should run fine on these fuels should not be taken for granted. DI should be considered more experimental (or risky) Darren Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Inkjet cartridges up to 80% off. HP, Epson, Lexmark--we have your brand. Free shipping on every order to the U.S. and Canada! Excellent service. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/QWB0QC/.eUGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Brain fart. Any comments
Hi Darren, Aiden, The IDGTE (Institution of Diesel Gas Turbine Engineers) UK have been involved in burning both tallow and WVO with new technology which involves oxygen enrichment of intake air which allows all of the fuel to be combusted. The process involves a membrane that filters the nitrogen out. Saves approx 23 pence (37 cents US) per litre on esterification. I hope to start a pilot project running a small Genset here in Tanzania using a variety of essential oils (Jatropha, Moringa, Neem etc) just to see what happens to the engine, lube oil etc. We hope to get support from CAT and will keep you all posted. Aiden, Lots of Gensets run in CHP (combined heat power) making steam from the exhaust of a diesel which can be sold if you are generating alongside a client who needs both kW electrical and kW thermal. Suggest you visit : www.dti.gov.uk/renewable/index.html for links to companies providing support and advise Good luck Peter . -Original Message- From: Darren [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 4:35 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] Brain fart. Any comments -Original Message- From: A Wilkins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 04 July 2003 16:50 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Brain fart. Any comments Hello, first of all this is just a brain fart. I was toying with the idea of community supplied power from a diesel generator running on WVO. I have located several large generators. The one I was toying with was a 650Kw that uses 174 L/h at 100% load. I think that selection of a suitable genset for this fuel type is crucial to such a project. I know of a project here in the UK that set up, running tallow for fuel. The engine was plagued with coking problems which the owner was unable to solve despite bringing in various experts in the field. Eventually he sold the project as a going concern without ever solving the problems. Read this for more info http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpcs=447609751f=159605551m=360 6 s=447609751f=159605551m=3606 06161r=170606161#170606161 If I was involved in such a project and wanted/needed everything to be up and running ASAP with the least problems I'd be looking at indirect injection engines, less energy efficient but also much less likely to have these kind of problems which could kill such an undertaking. It should of course be possible to undertake such with a direct injection engine just that the fact that any engine should run fine on these fuels should not be taken for granted. DI should be considered more experimental (or risky) Darren Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT http://rd.yahoo.com/M=244522.3512152.4794593.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705 083269:HM/A=1595054/R=0/SIG=124f8kfa7/*http:/ashnin.com/clk/muryutaitake nattogyo?YH=3512152yhad=1595054 Click Here! http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=244522.3512152.4794593.1261774/D=egrou pmail/S=:HM/A=1595054/rand=972974723 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Inkjet cartridges up to 80% off. HP, Epson, Lexmark--we have your brand. Free shipping on every order to the U.S. and Canada! Excellent service. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/QWB0QC/.eUGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Brain fart. Any comments
Mark, I know of a project where they have been burning WVO and tallow, there is an on going project at Didcot (UK) with 9 x 1.6 MWe 3512 CAT units on WVO and tallow, monitoring the emissions, Oxygen is being provided across the fence from a facility who produce the stuff as a by-product. Will let you know the results of the tests as and when Peter (ex-Stockport UK, now Tanzania) . -Original Message- From: mark schofield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 5:17 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] Brain fart. Any comments Who was running that project Darren? Mark, Manchester, UK --- Darren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Original Message- From: A Wilkins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 04 July 2003 16:50 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Brain fart. Any comments Hello, first of all this is just a brain fart. I was toying with the idea of community supplied power from a diesel generator running on WVO. I have located several large generators. The one I was toying with was a 650Kw that uses 174 L/h at 100% load. I think that selection of a suitable genset for this fuel type is crucial to such a project. I know of a project here in the UK that set up, running tallow for fuel. The engine was plagued with coking problems which the owner was unable to solve despite bringing in various experts in the field. Eventually he sold the project as a going concern without ever solving the problems. Read this for more info http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpcs=447609751f=159605551m=360 6 s=447609751f=159605551m=3606 06161r=170606161#170606161 If I was involved in such a project and wanted/needed everything to be up and running ASAP with the least problems I'd be looking at indirect injection engines, less energy efficient but also much less likely to have these kind of problems which could kill such an undertaking. It should of course be possible to undertake such with a direct injection engine just that the fact that any engine should run fine on these fuels should not be taken for granted. DI should be considered more experimental (or risky) Darren Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT http://rd.yahoo.com/M=244522.3512152.4794593.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705 083269:HM/A=1595053/R=0/SIG=1245der9k/*http:/ashnin.com/clk/muryutaitake nattogyo?YH=3512152yhad=1595053 Click Here! http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=244522.3512152.4794593.1261774/D=egrou pmail/S=:HM/A=1595053/rand=287332801 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Save on Coral Calcium. Get Better Health and Stronger Bones. Seen on TV http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid-2805lp=calcium2.asp http://us.click.yahoo.com/9gf46B/EfUGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Brain fart. Any comments
I've never understood why cogeneration can't be used in car engines, but in community power plants, I had thought is was not uncommon. It is also an assumption that some fuel cell dreamers make (that they will use cogeneration) to come up with some of their better efficiency numbers. On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 11:49:40 -0400, you wrote: Hello, first of all this is just a brain fart. I was toying with the idea of community supplied power from a diesel generator running on WVO. I have located several large generators. The one I was toying with was a 650Kw that uses 174 L/h at 100% load. @ $.20 a litre for WVO the electricity price would have to be .08 Kw/h with a 20.00 month service fee like we have now. This is unlikely to work since Ontario has capped the electricity at .043 Kw/h. But now for the brain fart. With an exhaust temperature of 932 deg Fahrenheit and an engine heat rejection of 556 kw (31614 Btu/mn) and an Alternator heat rejection of 27.7 Kw would it be possible to utilize this heat to generate power in a turbine? This would make the overall efficiency of the generator much higher and the whole idea a lot more feasible. I realize that some of the heat would have to be used to heat the WVO, but I am sure there would still be a lot of heat left over. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Here is the .pdf page with the generator specs. http://www.gensetcentral.com/XS650U.PDF Aidan Wilkins Co-Owner MotorKote of Canada (519)-768-0948 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Save on Coral Calcium. Get Better Health and Stronger Bones. Seen on TV http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid-2805lp=calcium2.asp http://us.click.yahoo.com/9gf46B/EfUGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Brain fart. Any comments
If the 556 kw is the exhaust rejection you're forgetting and equal amount from the cooling system. Rule of thumb for internal combustion engine is that only about 1/3 of the power generated from the combustion goes to the driven load. Maybe 10% to friction and the rest disappears as heat. Ethan -Original Message- From: A Wilkins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 11:50 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Brain fart. Any comments Hello, first of all this is just a brain fart. I was toying with the idea of community supplied power from a diesel generator running on WVO. I have located several large generators. The one I was toying with was a 650Kw that uses 174 L/h at 100% load. @ $.20 a litre for WVO the electricity price would have to be .08 Kw/h with a 20.00 month service fee like we have now. This is unlikely to work since Ontario has capped the electricity at .043 Kw/h. But now for the brain fart. With an exhaust temperature of 932 deg Fahrenheit and an engine heat rejection of 556 kw (31614 Btu/mn) and an Alternator heat rejection of 27.7 Kw would it be possible to utilize this heat to generate power in a turbine? This would make the overall efficiency of the generator much higher and the whole idea a lot more feasible. I realize that some of the heat would have to be used to heat the WVO, but I am sure there would still be a lot of heat left over. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Here is the .pdf page with the generator specs. http://www.gensetcentral.com/XS650U.PDF Aidan Wilkins Co-Owner MotorKote of Canada (519)-768-0948 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Brain fart. Any comments
If you are going to build that large a system you should explore Brayton cycle with recovery. The textbooks claim 72% theoretical vs about 40 for the best diesel. ALso I would site my generation where I had a use for the heat. Heat a lot of space or water with the waste heat. Kirk -Original Message- From: Ethan Vos [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 2:20 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] Brain fart. Any comments If the 556 kw is the exhaust rejection you're forgetting and equal amount from the cooling system. Rule of thumb for internal combustion engine is that only about 1/3 of the power generated from the combustion goes to the driven load. Maybe 10% to friction and the rest disappears as heat. Ethan -Original Message- From: A Wilkins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 11:50 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Brain fart. Any comments Hello, first of all this is just a brain fart. I was toying with the idea of community supplied power from a diesel generator running on WVO. I have located several large generators. The one I was toying with was a 650Kw that uses 174 L/h at 100% load. @ $.20 a litre for WVO the electricity price would have to be .08 Kw/h with a 20.00 month service fee like we have now. This is unlikely to work since Ontario has capped the electricity at .043 Kw/h. But now for the brain fart. With an exhaust temperature of 932 deg Fahrenheit and an engine heat rejection of 556 kw (31614 Btu/mn) and an Alternator heat rejection of 27.7 Kw would it be possible to utilize this heat to generate power in a turbine? This would make the overall efficiency of the generator much higher and the whole idea a lot more feasible. I realize that some of the heat would have to be used to heat the WVO, but I am sure there would still be a lot of heat left over. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Here is the .pdf page with the generator specs. http://www.gensetcentral.com/XS650U.PDF Aidan Wilkins Co-Owner MotorKote of Canada (519)-768-0948 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.495 / Virus Database: 294 - Release Date: 6/30/2003 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Inkjet cartridges up to 80% off. HP, Epson, Lexmark--we have your brand. Free shipping on every order to the U.S. and Canada! Excellent service. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/QWB0QC/.eUGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
