Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil?
BBQ Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. -- - Original Message - From: "David Reid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 3:56 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil? > Hi Steve, > Sounds interesting. Do you mean lpg (liquid petroleum gas) or > low pressure? > B.r., David > > - Original Message - > From: steve spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 10:40 PM > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil? > > > > i have plans for a oil/gas multifuel burner I'll be posting soon. has a > > replaceable (cheap) jet assembly depending on fuel, and is made from a lp > > tank. > > > > > > Steve Spence > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil?
Todd, This is where the by-pass filters I handle would come in very useful. B.r., David > If the question is as stated in the subject line, the answer is absolutely > yes. > > Some precautions must be taken to deal with cold weather mechanics such as > clouding and gelling. Other than that, the only other "problem" is the > sludge buildup on the old fuel oil tank will start to come loose, as the > bio-d is a superb solvent. > > Just be aware that filters will need to be replaced with greater frequency > for a year or two, unless the tank is cleaned prior to introducing bio-d. > > Todd > Appal Energy > [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil?
Hi Steve, Sounds interesting. Do you mean lpg (liquid petroleum gas) or low pressure? B.r., David - Original Message - From: steve spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 10:40 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil? > i have plans for a oil/gas multifuel burner I'll be posting soon. has a > replaceable (cheap) jet assembly depending on fuel, and is made from a lp > tank. > > > Steve Spence Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil?
Yeh Hi Todd. It has been dragged up from a few weeks old thread. I'm installing another smaller tank in an annexed room close to the boiler. This i'll keep topped with biod. Its reasonably warm. Whilst on this subject whats the minimum temp that problems arise? Ian - Original Message - From: Appal Energy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil? > Missed the original post on this thread. > > If the question is as stated in the subject line, the answer is absolutely > yes. > > Some precautions must be taken to deal with cold weather mechanics such as > clouding and gelling. Other than that, the only other "problem" is the > sludge buildup on the old fuel oil tank will start to come loose, as the > bio-d is a superb solvent. > > Just be aware that filters will need to be replaced with greater frequency > for a year or two, unless the tank is cleaned prior to introducing bio-d. > > Todd > Appal Energy > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil?
Missed the original post on this thread. If the question is as stated in the subject line, the answer is absolutely yes. Some precautions must be taken to deal with cold weather mechanics such as clouding and gelling. Other than that, the only other "problem" is the sludge buildup on the old fuel oil tank will start to come loose, as the bio-d is a superb solvent. Just be aware that filters will need to be replaced with greater frequency for a year or two, unless the tank is cleaned prior to introducing bio-d. Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil?
i have plans for a oil/gas multifuel burner I'll be posting soon. has a replaceable (cheap) jet assembly depending on fuel, and is made from a lp tank. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. -- - Original Message - From: "Biofuels" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 2:42 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil? > My experience of trying SVO mixed in with the heating oil was cold wax > crystal blocked fine filter (before the jet) and waxing of the jet, leading > to misdirected spray and locking out. > I will not do it again in a domestic unit. > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil?
My experience of trying SVO mixed in with the heating oil was cold wax crystal blocked fine filter (before the jet) and waxing of the jet, leading to misdirected spray and locking out. I will not do it again in a domestic unit. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil?
Try 50/50 kerosene/SVO! I used new oil and kerosene and it worked in my driveway testing. -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 3:29 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil? Dana Linscott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >One of our members is also considering using the >glycerine component of BD production as home heating >fuel and so will need to have this type of setup to >keep it liquid. He has no room in his basement for the >tanks and so is planning on building an insulated >"shed" on the side of his home large enough for a 500 >gallon tank. He has chosen as his "project" to try >modifying a standard fuel oil furnace "gun" to work >with the Glycerine component of BD production. > >Does anyone have any pointers having done this >themselves. Theorys? > >thanks >Dana I know Aleks was running his furnace on glyc from his original two-stage process (base-base), which gives thin glyc, but he said he stopped doing it because the glyc left a deposit which kept clogging the furnace. It's a problem that's worth trying to crack. Please keep the list informed - also on progress with WVO as heating fuel. Someone suggested to me that the glyc might best be used as a binding agent to make sawdust pellets for stoves. Todd mentioned mixing it with sawdust, but didn't say more - what then, Todd? A caution though - the National Toxicology Program has listed wood dust as a carcinogen, because of the danger of arsenic and chemical additives. http://ntp-server.niehs.nih.gov/NewHomeRoc/AboutRoC.html "Nominated by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration based on IARC2 finding identification of sufficient evidence of carcinogenicity in human epidemiology studies and identifying wood dust as a Group 1- Known Human Carcinogen (Vol. 62, 1995). IARC listing based on increases in cancer, particularly cancer of the nasal cavities and paranasal sinuses, associated with exposure to wood dust." See also: Carcinogen list may include wood dust, talc http://enn.com/news/enn-stories/2001/04/04162001/carcinogens_43022.asp Burning arsenic-treated wood in a home furnace is a no-no. Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
slap Re: High Viscosity Oils in Furnaces: Was Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil?
please don't berate him, he tries, like all of us. David Reid wrote: > Hi Greg, > Excuse my ignorance but what is Kersone? Is it a brand > name or > something else? > B.r., David > > I tried 50/50 Kersone/New Soy Bean Cooking oil in an oil burner. I > would > > probably go 60/40 kero/oil for regular use. -- www.skaar.101main.net from 20:00 to 7:30 AST, ask for free access to the hidden directories. www.geocities.com/skaar0 for the speedier, full time version, i put the newest stuff on my home site moderator of [EMAIL PROTECTED] lord of the minuet. nutty artist axtraordinaire. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil?
i think perhaps that would only apply to treated wood, and wouldn't the additives cause problems with the heater itself? Keith Addison wrote: > Someone suggested to me that the glyc might best be used as a binding > agent to make sawdust pellets for stoves. Todd mentioned mixing it > with sawdust, but didn't say more - what then, Todd? A caution though > - the National Toxicology Program has listed wood dust as a > carcinogen, because of the danger of arsenic and chemical additives. > http://ntp-server.niehs.nih.gov/NewHomeRoc/AboutRoC.html -- www.skaar.101main.net from 20:00 to 7:30 AST, ask for free access to the hidden directories. www.geocities.com/skaar0 for the speedier, full time version, i put the newest stuff on my home site moderator of [EMAIL PROTECTED] lord of the minuet. nutty artist axtraordinaire. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil?
how about in sauna heaters, will it make funny noises and smells? -- www.skaar.101main.net from 20:00 to 7:30 AST, ask for free access to the hidden directories. www.geocities.com/skaar0 for the speedier, full time version, i put the newest stuff on my home site moderator of [EMAIL PROTECTED] lord of the minuet. nutty artist axtraordinaire. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: High Viscosity Oils in Furnaces: Was Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil?
Thanks; hadnt made the connection B.r., David > Kerosene is Number 1 diesel with winter protection UNTAXED, for home > heating and cleaning. Currently selling for $1.75 compared to diesel > at $1.43 at my local stations in MIchigan Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: High Viscosity Oils in Furnaces: Was Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil?
Paraffin - Original Message - From: "David Reid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 8:18 PM Subject: Re: High Viscosity Oils in Furnaces: Was Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil? > Hi Greg, > Excuse my ignorance but what is Kersone? Is it a brand name or > something else? > B.r., David > > I tried 50/50 Kersone/New Soy Bean Cooking oil in an oil burner. I would > > probably go 60/40 kero/oil for regular use. > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
High Viscosity Oils in Furnaces: Was Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil?
Kerosene is Number 1 diesel with winter protection UNTAXED, for home heating and cleaning. Currently selling for $1.75 compared to diesel at $1.43 at my local stations in MIchigan --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "David Reid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Greg, > Excuse my ignorance but what is Kersone? Is it a brand name or > something else? > B.r., David > > I tried 50/50 Kersone/New Soy Bean Cooking oil in an oil burner. I would > > probably go 60/40 kero/oil for regular use. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: High Viscosity Oils in Furnaces: Was Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil?
Hi Greg, Excuse my ignorance but what is Kersone? Is it a brand name or something else? B.r., David I tried 50/50 Kersone/New Soy Bean Cooking oil in an oil burner. I would > probably go 60/40 kero/oil for regular use. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: High Viscosity Oils in Furnaces: Was Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil?
Hi! I tried 50/50 Kersone/New Soy Bean Cooking oil in an oil burner. I would probably go 60/40 kero/oil for regular use. GREG -Original Message- From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 4:17 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: High Viscosity Oils in Furnaces: Was Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil? > In MN quite a few fuel oil tanks for home heating are > in home basements since it sometimes gets cold enough > to gel fuel oil in the dead of winter. It would seem > to me that Biodeisel would be even safer than fuel oil > to store indoors. Dana, Bio-d is considerably safer than fuel oil. I had forgotten about basements. A severe lapse I suppose. Relative to your WVO attempt in fuel oil furnaces, we conducted a modest experiment in that direction - in part. www.cleanburn.com sells boilers and commercial heating units that run on waste automobile crankcase oil and transmission fluid, as well as used hydraulic oil. They are able to burn these heavy fuels by preheating them and injecting air into the combustion chamber to effect efficient combustion - a bit more than what the average oil burner does. We shipped out three types of fuel to one of their reps and asked that burn tests be conducted. Although Clean Burn offers no warranty when fuels other than those mentioned are used, the tests were conducted. 1) Straight vegetable oil - Fryer grade 2) Veg oil biodiesel - Manufactured from the above. 3) Ohio crude oil - A byproduct of a producing natural gas well on this property The results surprised the Clean Burn agent, who expected that none would burn as well as the waste oils. 1) The veg oil burnt sufficiently, but pressure needed to be increased from the normal 4.5 pounds to 5.5 pounds due to the viscosity. 2) The biodiesel burnt similarly to the veg oil, requiring the same 5.5 pounds pressure. 3) The crude burned exceptionally well at 4.5 pounds pressure, the same pressure as the waste oils utilize. This is a completely unrefined oil straight out of the ground. We shipped out the biodiesel sample, frivolously knowing that it already combusted in lighter duty fuel oil furnaces and were a tad surprised that it was so similar to veg oil. Our primary questions were if the veg oil would burn well with no conversion required and if the crude would burn with no refinement. Both would be boons to farmers, as many have oil producing gas wells and oil wells on property. Unfortunately, most receive bottom dollar from fossil fuel processors and are taken advantage of, all the while often buying natural gas from the gas companies for heating purposes. The answers to both questions were unequivocally "yes!" Whether WVO will burn in lighter duty fuel oil furnaces at sufficient temps is unknown here. You might wish to explore the Clean Burn site and see if anything can be gleened for your endeavor. As for combusting preheated glycerin in light duty furnaces, I would believe that the same considerations would apply as burning WVO, but in greater proportion. Glycerin has greater density than WVO, has a lower burning temp and tends to carmel in a combustion environment. Using glycerin still containing the methanol portion from biodiesel manufacturing might alleviate such problems to some degree. Good fortune on the experiment... Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Our group has been looking into > converting fuel oil furnaces to filtered, dewatered > WVO and even at "room" temperture this gels. The > proposed solution to this is to insulate the tank and > install a heater element from an electric water heater > and a thermostat to keep the WVO from gelling. > Installation would be close to the tank outlet to most > effeciently use the small amount of electricity needed > to keep the WVO flowing and the thermostat would be > set at just above the "cloud" temperature. A self > regulating heat tape of the type used to prevent water > line freeze up would be used to heat the line running > from the tank to the furnace. Cost of this > modification of fuel oil tanks should be about $60us, > less if you can salvage from discarded water heater. > > This may be useful for those who are unable or > unwilling to have a tank of Biodeisel inside thier > home for central heating oil. > > One of our members is also considering using the > glycerine component of BD production as home heating > fuel and so will need to have this type of setup to > keep it liquid. He has no room in his basement for the > tanks and so is planning on building an insulated > "shed" on the side of his home large enough for a 500 > gallon tank. He has
High Viscosity Oils in Furnaces: Was Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil?
> In MN quite a few fuel oil tanks for home heating are > in home basements since it sometimes gets cold enough > to gel fuel oil in the dead of winter. It would seem > to me that Biodeisel would be even safer than fuel oil > to store indoors. Dana, Bio-d is considerably safer than fuel oil. I had forgotten about basements. A severe lapse I suppose. Relative to your WVO attempt in fuel oil furnaces, we conducted a modest experiment in that direction - in part. www.cleanburn.com sells boilers and commercial heating units that run on waste automobile crankcase oil and transmission fluid, as well as used hydraulic oil. They are able to burn these heavy fuels by preheating them and injecting air into the combustion chamber to effect efficient combustion - a bit more than what the average oil burner does. We shipped out three types of fuel to one of their reps and asked that burn tests be conducted. Although Clean Burn offers no warranty when fuels other than those mentioned are used, the tests were conducted. 1) Straight vegetable oil - Fryer grade 2) Veg oil biodiesel - Manufactured from the above. 3) Ohio crude oil - A byproduct of a producing natural gas well on this property The results surprised the Clean Burn agent, who expected that none would burn as well as the waste oils. 1) The veg oil burnt sufficiently, but pressure needed to be increased from the normal 4.5 pounds to 5.5 pounds due to the viscosity. 2) The biodiesel burnt similarly to the veg oil, requiring the same 5.5 pounds pressure. 3) The crude burned exceptionally well at 4.5 pounds pressure, the same pressure as the waste oils utilize. This is a completely unrefined oil straight out of the ground. We shipped out the biodiesel sample, frivolously knowing that it already combusted in lighter duty fuel oil furnaces and were a tad surprised that it was so similar to veg oil. Our primary questions were if the veg oil would burn well with no conversion required and if the crude would burn with no refinement. Both would be boons to farmers, as many have oil producing gas wells and oil wells on property. Unfortunately, most receive bottom dollar from fossil fuel processors and are taken advantage of, all the while often buying natural gas from the gas companies for heating purposes. The answers to both questions were unequivocally "yes!" Whether WVO will burn in lighter duty fuel oil furnaces at sufficient temps is unknown here. You might wish to explore the Clean Burn site and see if anything can be gleened for your endeavor. As for combusting preheated glycerin in light duty furnaces, I would believe that the same considerations would apply as burning WVO, but in greater proportion. Glycerin has greater density than WVO, has a lower burning temp and tends to carmel in a combustion environment. Using glycerin still containing the methanol portion from biodiesel manufacturing might alleviate such problems to some degree. Good fortune on the experiment... Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Our group has been looking into > converting fuel oil furnaces to filtered, dewatered > WVO and even at "room" temperture this gels. The > proposed solution to this is to insulate the tank and > install a heater element from an electric water heater > and a thermostat to keep the WVO from gelling. > Installation would be close to the tank outlet to most > effeciently use the small amount of electricity needed > to keep the WVO flowing and the thermostat would be > set at just above the "cloud" temperature. A self > regulating heat tape of the type used to prevent water > line freeze up would be used to heat the line running > from the tank to the furnace. Cost of this > modification of fuel oil tanks should be about $60us, > less if you can salvage from discarded water heater. > > This may be useful for those who are unable or > unwilling to have a tank of Biodeisel inside thier > home for central heating oil. > > One of our members is also considering using the > glycerine component of BD production as home heating > fuel and so will need to have this type of setup to > keep it liquid. He has no room in his basement for the > tanks and so is planning on building an insulated > "shed" on the side of his home large enough for a 500 > gallon tank. He has chosen as his "project" to try > modifying a standard fuel oil furnace "gun" to work > with the Glycerine component of BD production. > > Does anyone have any pointers having done this > themselves. Theorys? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil?
Dana Linscott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >One of our members is also considering using the >glycerine component of BD production as home heating >fuel and so will need to have this type of setup to >keep it liquid. He has no room in his basement for the >tanks and so is planning on building an insulated >"shed" on the side of his home large enough for a 500 >gallon tank. He has chosen as his "project" to try >modifying a standard fuel oil furnace "gun" to work >with the Glycerine component of BD production. > >Does anyone have any pointers having done this >themselves. Theorys? > >thanks >Dana I know Aleks was running his furnace on glyc from his original two-stage process (base-base), which gives thin glyc, but he said he stopped doing it because the glyc left a deposit which kept clogging the furnace. It's a problem that's worth trying to crack. Please keep the list informed - also on progress with WVO as heating fuel. Someone suggested to me that the glyc might best be used as a binding agent to make sawdust pellets for stoves. Todd mentioned mixing it with sawdust, but didn't say more - what then, Todd? A caution though - the National Toxicology Program has listed wood dust as a carcinogen, because of the danger of arsenic and chemical additives. http://ntp-server.niehs.nih.gov/NewHomeRoc/AboutRoC.html "Nominated by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration based on IARC2 finding identification of sufficient evidence of carcinogenicity in human epidemiology studies and identifying wood dust as a Group 1- Known Human Carcinogen (Vol. 62, 1995). IARC listing based on increases in cancer, particularly cancer of the nasal cavities and paranasal sinuses, associated with exposure to wood dust." See also: Carcinogen list may include wood dust, talc http://enn.com/news/enn-stories/2001/04/04162001/carcinogens_43022.asp Burning arsenic-treated wood in a home furnace is a no-no. Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil?
In MN quite a few fuel oil tanks for home heating are in home basements since it sometimes gets cold enough to gel fuel oil in the dead of winter. It would seem to me that Biodeisel would be even safer than fuel oil to store indoors. Our group has been looking into converting fuel oil furnaces to filtered, dewatered WVO and even at "room" temperture this gels. The proposed solution to this is to insulate the tank and install a heater element from an electric water heater and a thermostat to keep the WVO from gelling. Installation would be close to the tank outlet to most effeciently use the small amount of electricity needed to keep the WVO flowing and the thermostat would be set at just above the "cloud" temperature. A self regulating heat tape of the type used to prevent water line freeze up would be used to heat the line running from the tank to the furnace. Cost of this modification of fuel oil tanks should be about $60us, less if you can salvage from discarded water heater. This may be useful for those who are unable or unwilling to have a tank of Biodeisel inside thier home for central heating oil. One of our members is also considering using the glycerine component of BD production as home heating fuel and so will need to have this type of setup to keep it liquid. He has no room in his basement for the tanks and so is planning on building an insulated "shed" on the side of his home large enough for a 500 gallon tank. He has chosen as his "project" to try modifying a standard fuel oil furnace "gun" to work with the Glycerine component of BD production. Does anyone have any pointers having done this themselves. Theorys? thanks Dana __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil?
Hi Ian >Hi all >Can Biod be used for Central heating? Biodiesel's widely used for central heating in Europe. But they probably add something nasty to stop it gelling in the cold weather. >I see theres many questions regarding Tesla, theres some good stuff >out there on his work. >If the interest takes you have a look at http://www.tcbouk.org.uk/ >Mainly coil work, some of the members have very good knowledge on >some of the more secretive work Nik carried out. >Ian Coupla Tesla links (but will anything really useful ever come of this stuff??): http://www.execpc.com/~teba/ Tesla Engine Builders Association http://colossus2.cvl.bcm.tmc.edu/~wje/free_energy/ The Free Energy Page Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil?
For UK, I think the waxing problem is going to rear its ugly head. Re methanol - you should buy a 205 litre drum for something like £92 including VAT and carriage. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil?
. > I'm going to have to give it a go. Btw, I've had a price on Methanol 100 > litres -£140+vat uk, is that good? > Thanks all, thanks again Todd :). Ian, I dont know if thats a good price or not for the UK as I expect it would be dearer over there but if that is the going rate believe you must be heavily taxed on it as the going rate is around a dollar a litre here wholesale in 200 litre drums. Note one pound sterling = just over 3 NZ$. Admitedly it is made here but cant see why such a wide difference as Mobil I think it was really screwed the NZ govt back in the 70s when the plant was first built (first natural gas to methanol plant I believe). Has been sold twice since. Perhaps the current owners just get presented with the story that there is not much demand for it and thats the best price we are prepared to pay for it take it or leave it. Perhaps a group of you should get together to benefit yourselves, keep the costs down, and import some of your requirements after checking out the excise situation. B.r., David Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil?
brings to mind another scientist i've had the pleasure of watching work, "i'm not mad, i'm ANGRY!!!" steve spence wrote: > cute effects, but what good are they. Tesla went quite mad in his > later > years. Hey, at least he brought us AC electric. > > > Steve Spence > Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: > http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm > > Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com > Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm > X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax > We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, > we borrow it from our children. > -- > > - Original Message - > From: "Ian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 5:02 AM > Subject: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil? > > > > Hi all > > Can Biod be used for Central heating? > > I see theres many questions regarding Tesla, theres some good stuff > out > there on his work. > > If the interest takes you have a look at http://www.tcbouk.org.uk/ > > Mainly coil work, some of the members have very good knowledge on > some of > the more secretive work Nik carried out. > > Ian > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. -- www.skaar.101main.net from 20:00 to 7:30 AST, ask for free access to the hidden directories. www.geocities.com/skaar0 for the speedier, full time version, i put the newest stuff on my home site moderator of [EMAIL PROTECTED] lord of the minuet. nutty artist axtraordinaire. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil?
Danfoss makes a preheater, I believe. www.danfoss.com Ed B. - Original Message - From: "Trudy Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 10:06 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil? I read an Oil burner book that describes when using heavier industrial fuel oils, a fuel preheater is needed. It also said to preheat the fuel in the fuel tank with a heat exchanger. This idea is how I'm planning to run my diesel on straight vegetable oil!! Talk to your oil burner repairman concerning the part you need installed. Greg -- Original Message -- From: "ian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 16:58:27 +0100 > > >A whole 'web page on the subject' >Thanks very much Todd. >Ive just done the rounds now from all my local fast food shops, 5 of the 6 >were filled with Glee at the thought that someone would take their waste (i >was surprised too) saves them a trip to the tip. >Oh yeh the one that said no - McD. >I'm going to have to give it a go. Btw, I've had a price on Methanol 100 >litres -£140+vat uk, is that good? >Thanks all, thanks again Todd :). > > >- Original Message ----- >From: Appal Energy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: >Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 3:10 PM >Subject: Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil? > > >> > Can Biod be used for Central heating? >> >> >> Ian, >> >> Absolutely. You can use biodiesel as a 100% replacement for home heating >> oil. There are only two principle drawbacks. >> >> The first is that fuel oil tanks develop serious paraffin and gum buildup >on >> their inside walls over time. Introducing bio-d with its superb solvent >> effects will loosen all this up at an extremely quick pace. This stuff is >> black, waxy, collects particulates like a magnet, and will clog filters in >a >> heartbeat. It can be as thick as an 1/8th inch and cover almost the entire >> interior surface area of a tank - you're talking a "gallon" or more of >gunk >> in a 10 or 15 year old tank. >> >> You have two options. You can choose just to install a "super filter" and >> take your chances that a few of these filters will get you through each >> winter with no major problems. Or you can clean the tank, using moderate >to >> high pressure warmed solvent (120-150 degrees Fahrenheit). >> >> Bio-d is recommended for the thorough cleaning, due to its high flash >> point - no others if you value your existence. You will need a directional >> wand and some patience, as only a slow and methodical pattern will give >you >> any assurance that the tank is clean. >> >> You might be able to get away with a hand cranked barrel pump with an >> extension to pump out the old fuel and the dirty solvent during cleaning. >> Make sure the extensions are air tight or you may never get a prime. Rinse >> the tank with several gallons of bio-d several times. >> >> If you choose to use an existing tank, you will need to install a "super >> filter," even if the tank is cleaned. There will almost inevitably be some >> patch of waxes missed with the pressure cleaning. >> >> Last fall the NBB played up a Maryland dairy farmer using bio-d for heat. >It >> was only 5% bio-d, as they didn't wish to contend with any large releases >of >> waxes and gums in a brief period of time. Understandable to some degree, >as >> it is their livelihood being disrupted should serious problems crop up >with >> lines clogging. >> >> Five percent is better than nothing, but this low of a percent will never >be >> sufficient to clean a tank "naturally" in anything but geologic time - >> especially the uppermost portions which run dry first as fuel is consumed >> and remain dry until the tank is refilled. I would contend that the home >> brewer would be better off going the whole route, rather than partial >> measure. >> >> The second drawback is ambient temperature and the cloud point of your >> bio-d. Above ground tanks and lines will "freeze" rapidly, after 30 degree >> weather sets in. This can happen in but a few hours in the lines and after >> only a few nights in the tank, leaving you with a very cold problem. >> >> Even below ground storage can have some of the same problem, depending >upon >> whether the tank is below the frost line or not and if any of the lines >run >> along the exterior of the building, rather than undergro
Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil?
I read an Oil burner book that describes when using heavier industrial fuel oils, a fuel preheater is needed. It also said to preheat the fuel in the fuel tank with a heat exchanger. This idea is how I'm planning to run my diesel on straight vegetable oil!! Talk to your oil burner repairman concerning the part you need installed. Greg -- Original Message -- From: "ian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 16:58:27 +0100 > > >A whole 'web page on the subject' >Thanks very much Todd. >Ive just done the rounds now from all my local fast food shops, 5 of the 6 >were filled with Glee at the thought that someone would take their waste (i >was surprised too) saves them a trip to the tip. >Oh yeh the one that said no - McD. >I'm going to have to give it a go. Btw, I've had a price on Methanol 100 >litres -£140+vat uk, is that good? >Thanks all, thanks again Todd :). > > >- Original Message - >From: Appal Energy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: >Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 3:10 PM >Subject: Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil? > > >> > Can Biod be used for Central heating? >> >> >> Ian, >> >> Absolutely. You can use biodiesel as a 100% replacement for home heating >> oil. There are only two principle drawbacks. >> >> The first is that fuel oil tanks develop serious paraffin and gum buildup >on >> their inside walls over time. Introducing bio-d with its superb solvent >> effects will loosen all this up at an extremely quick pace. This stuff is >> black, waxy, collects particulates like a magnet, and will clog filters >> in >a >> heartbeat. It can be as thick as an 1/8th inch and cover almost the >> entire >> interior surface area of a tank - you're talking a "gallon" or more of >gunk >> in a 10 or 15 year old tank. >> >> You have two options. You can choose just to install a "super filter" and >> take your chances that a few of these filters will get you through each >> winter with no major problems. Or you can clean the tank, using moderate >to >> high pressure warmed solvent (120-150 degrees Fahrenheit). >> >> Bio-d is recommended for the thorough cleaning, due to its high flash >> point - no others if you value your existence. You will need a >> directional >> wand and some patience, as only a slow and methodical pattern will give >you >> any assurance that the tank is clean. >> >> You might be able to get away with a hand cranked barrel pump with an >> extension to pump out the old fuel and the dirty solvent during cleaning. >> Make sure the extensions are air tight or you may never get a prime. >> Rinse >> the tank with several gallons of bio-d several times. >> >> If you choose to use an existing tank, you will need to install a "super >> filter," even if the tank is cleaned. There will almost inevitably be >> some >> patch of waxes missed with the pressure cleaning. >> >> Last fall the NBB played up a Maryland dairy farmer using bio-d for heat. >It >> was only 5% bio-d, as they didn't wish to contend with any large releases >of >> waxes and gums in a brief period of time. Understandable to some degree, >as >> it is their livelihood being disrupted should serious problems crop up >with >> lines clogging. >> >> Five percent is better than nothing, but this low of a percent will never >be >> sufficient to clean a tank "naturally" in anything but geologic time - >> especially the uppermost portions which run dry first as fuel is consumed >> and remain dry until the tank is refilled. I would contend that the home >> brewer would be better off going the whole route, rather than partial >> measure. >> >> The second drawback is ambient temperature and the cloud point of your >> bio-d. Above ground tanks and lines will "freeze" rapidly, after 30 >> degree >> weather sets in. This can happen in but a few hours in the lines and >> after >> only a few nights in the tank, leaving you with a very cold problem. >> >> Even below ground storage can have some of the same problem, depending >upon >> whether the tank is below the frost line or not and if any of the lines >run >> along the exterior of the building, rather than underground, beneath the >> frostline, under the building and then up through the floor to the >furnace. >> >> In an industrial type building, fuel can
Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil?
A whole 'web page on the subject' Thanks very much Todd. Ive just done the rounds now from all my local fast food shops, 5 of the 6 were filled with Glee at the thought that someone would take their waste (i was surprised too) saves them a trip to the tip. Oh yeh the one that said no - McD. I'm going to have to give it a go. Btw, I've had a price on Methanol 100 litres -£140+vat uk, is that good? Thanks all, thanks again Todd :). - Original Message - From: Appal Energy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 3:10 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil? > > Can Biod be used for Central heating? > > > Ian, > > Absolutely. You can use biodiesel as a 100% replacement for home heating > oil. There are only two principle drawbacks. > > The first is that fuel oil tanks develop serious paraffin and gum buildup on > their inside walls over time. Introducing bio-d with its superb solvent > effects will loosen all this up at an extremely quick pace. This stuff is > black, waxy, collects particulates like a magnet, and will clog filters in a > heartbeat. It can be as thick as an 1/8th inch and cover almost the entire > interior surface area of a tank - you're talking a "gallon" or more of gunk > in a 10 or 15 year old tank. > > You have two options. You can choose just to install a "super filter" and > take your chances that a few of these filters will get you through each > winter with no major problems. Or you can clean the tank, using moderate to > high pressure warmed solvent (120-150 degrees Fahrenheit). > > Bio-d is recommended for the thorough cleaning, due to its high flash > point - no others if you value your existence. You will need a directional > wand and some patience, as only a slow and methodical pattern will give you > any assurance that the tank is clean. > > You might be able to get away with a hand cranked barrel pump with an > extension to pump out the old fuel and the dirty solvent during cleaning. > Make sure the extensions are air tight or you may never get a prime. Rinse > the tank with several gallons of bio-d several times. > > If you choose to use an existing tank, you will need to install a "super > filter," even if the tank is cleaned. There will almost inevitably be some > patch of waxes missed with the pressure cleaning. > > Last fall the NBB played up a Maryland dairy farmer using bio-d for heat. It > was only 5% bio-d, as they didn't wish to contend with any large releases of > waxes and gums in a brief period of time. Understandable to some degree, as > it is their livelihood being disrupted should serious problems crop up with > lines clogging. > > Five percent is better than nothing, but this low of a percent will never be > sufficient to clean a tank "naturally" in anything but geologic time - > especially the uppermost portions which run dry first as fuel is consumed > and remain dry until the tank is refilled. I would contend that the home > brewer would be better off going the whole route, rather than partial > measure. > > The second drawback is ambient temperature and the cloud point of your > bio-d. Above ground tanks and lines will "freeze" rapidly, after 30 degree > weather sets in. This can happen in but a few hours in the lines and after > only a few nights in the tank, leaving you with a very cold problem. > > Even below ground storage can have some of the same problem, depending upon > whether the tank is below the frost line or not and if any of the lines run > along the exterior of the building, rather than underground, beneath the > frostline, under the building and then up through the floor to the furnace. > > In an industrial type building, fuel can be stored inside, eliminating the > clouding/freezing problems. This is not as possible in residential > dwellings, nor advised. > > If you're going to do this, I would start now, as winter will be here in a > bat of an eye. > > Todd > Appal Energy > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil?
> Can Biod be used for Central heating? Ian, Absolutely. You can use biodiesel as a 100% replacement for home heating oil. There are only two principle drawbacks. The first is that fuel oil tanks develop serious paraffin and gum buildup on their inside walls over time. Introducing bio-d with its superb solvent effects will loosen all this up at an extremely quick pace. This stuff is black, waxy, collects particulates like a magnet, and will clog filters in a heartbeat. It can be as thick as an 1/8th inch and cover almost the entire interior surface area of a tank - you're talking a "gallon" or more of gunk in a 10 or 15 year old tank. You have two options. You can choose just to install a "super filter" and take your chances that a few of these filters will get you through each winter with no major problems. Or you can clean the tank, using moderate to high pressure warmed solvent (120-150 degrees Fahrenheit). Bio-d is recommended for the thorough cleaning, due to its high flash point - no others if you value your existence. You will need a directional wand and some patience, as only a slow and methodical pattern will give you any assurance that the tank is clean. You might be able to get away with a hand cranked barrel pump with an extension to pump out the old fuel and the dirty solvent during cleaning. Make sure the extensions are air tight or you may never get a prime. Rinse the tank with several gallons of bio-d several times. If you choose to use an existing tank, you will need to install a "super filter," even if the tank is cleaned. There will almost inevitably be some patch of waxes missed with the pressure cleaning. Last fall the NBB played up a Maryland dairy farmer using bio-d for heat. It was only 5% bio-d, as they didn't wish to contend with any large releases of waxes and gums in a brief period of time. Understandable to some degree, as it is their livelihood being disrupted should serious problems crop up with lines clogging. Five percent is better than nothing, but this low of a percent will never be sufficient to clean a tank "naturally" in anything but geologic time - especially the uppermost portions which run dry first as fuel is consumed and remain dry until the tank is refilled. I would contend that the home brewer would be better off going the whole route, rather than partial measure. The second drawback is ambient temperature and the cloud point of your bio-d. Above ground tanks and lines will "freeze" rapidly, after 30 degree weather sets in. This can happen in but a few hours in the lines and after only a few nights in the tank, leaving you with a very cold problem. Even below ground storage can have some of the same problem, depending upon whether the tank is below the frost line or not and if any of the lines run along the exterior of the building, rather than underground, beneath the frostline, under the building and then up through the floor to the furnace. In an industrial type building, fuel can be stored inside, eliminating the clouding/freezing problems. This is not as possible in residential dwellings, nor advised. If you're going to do this, I would start now, as winter will be here in a bat of an eye. Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil?
cute effects, but what good are they. Tesla went quite mad in his later years. Hey, at least he brought us AC electric. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. -- - Original Message - From: "Ian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 5:02 AM Subject: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil? > Hi all > Can Biod be used for Central heating? > I see theres many questions regarding Tesla, theres some good stuff out there on his work. > If the interest takes you have a look at http://www.tcbouk.org.uk/ > Mainly coil work, some of the members have very good knowledge on some of the more secretive work Nik carried out. > Ian > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
