Re: [biofuel] Ethanol fuel - was Re: SVO vs biodiesel - was Re: newby
Keith I'm not saying all people don't think And certainly not this group here. What I am saying is a person on the street. 9 out of 10 people that know about ethanol if you ask them how it is made or what it made out of they will corn or grain. I don't know if you heard about the new ethanol plant they are building in Kansas and all the BS hype they gave it. The people that are building it had public meetings on the plant. They had an oil co rep that told people how they would buy the ethanol and mix it with gas. They told the farmers how that would pay top dollar for the grain and how everybody wins. Bull what they didn't tell is the only winners will be the plant owners and the oil co becouse after the ethanol is is processed and mixed with Fuel. The spent grain will be dryed and used in animal feed. Like Dog food, Cat food And Cattle feed just to name a few. onec agin I want to say Iam sorry if I made any one mad in the Group. Jim Allen Keith Addison wrote: If people would think Ethanol Can be processed form jusy about any Vegetation not just corn and grain. Even Grass can yeild Ethanol. If fermented but your yeild would be lower. Jim Allen What makes you think people don't think? The people here most certainly do think. Do a search in the archives for ethanol (without the quotes) and see what you find. Well, here's what you'll find: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?keywords=ethanollist=biofuel http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?keywords=ethanollist=biofuel - 3,950 messages dealing with ethanol, and another 560 here: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?keywords=ethanollist=biofuels-biz http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?keywords=ethanollist=biofuels-biz If you explore the other link at the end of every message you receive, this one: Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html ... you'll find a whole ethanol section: http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol.html Ethanol http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_link.html Ethanol resources on the Web ... as well as a lot of hands-on fuel ethanol information here: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library.html Biofuels Library - Journey to Forever ... including two ethanol fuel manuals, full-text online, and quite a few still designs. All that said, more discussion on fuel ethanol is welcome. Do you make and use fuel ethanol? Alex recently wrote this: Hi, I'm a newby. My question - why people are more interested in biodiesel and not in an ethanol? In my opinion, ethanol is easier to make from scratch then biodiesel. Regards, Alex People are interested in fuel ethanol, but more people are probably interested in biodiesel. There are some reasons for that: 1) I doubt many would agree that ethanol is easier to make from scratch than biodiesel, and in useful quantities as fuel. 2) Diesels are more economical than spark-ignition engines, more efficient, and, indeed, cleaner. 3) There are some disadvantages to using fuel ethanol in a gasoline motor that biodiesel in a diesel doesn't share: (a) You need to modify the motor for ethanol use, enlarging the main jet, which means you can't simply switch back to gasoline without replacing the original jet, and computerised fuel systems are more complex; blending fuel ethanol with gasoline means the ethanol must be anhydrous, which is troublesome. With a diesel, you can switch between biodiesel and dinodiesel or use any combination without having to do anything. (b) Ethanol is rather corrosive (though not as corrosive as methanol), and engines have to be specially protected if they're to last without damage; there is no such issue with biodiesel. Best wishes Keith snip Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here http://rd.yahoo.com/M=259538.3760361.5018013.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705083269:HM/A=1712983/R=0/SIG=11u38u3s2/*http://hits.411web.com/cgi-bin/hit?page=1374-105951838331032 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To
Re: [biofuel] Ethanol fuel - was Re: SVO vs biodiesel - was Re: newby
Hello Jim Keith I'm not saying all people don't think And certainly not this group here. What I am saying is a person on the street. 9 out of 10 people that know about ethanol I wonder how many that would be? Or maybe how few: other posters have bemoaned the woefully inadequate level of promotion and public education from the Big Ethanol players like ADM. if you ask them how it is made or what it made out of they will corn or grain. Most would probably say corn (maize). Certainly not the best crop - though IMO there is no best crop, there are so many factors that mean much more than yield does when you get down to it, ie on a real farm at local level (and by real farm I mean a mixed farm, not a monocrop disaster). On the other hand, there's currently billions of bushels of surplus corn in the US - the cheapest thing for Americans to burn in their woodstoves. Might as well do something useful with it - and hopefully it might even occur to the Big Guys eventually that there's OIL in it too that they could use to make biodiesel as well as ethanol. But as long as ethanol and biofuels generally are treated as an agriculture issue, for the benefit of agribiz at everyone else's expense, and not an energy issue, I don't think we can expect any sensible behaviour, at least not at that level. At the level most people here operate at though it's a different matter. I don't know if you heard about the new ethanol plant they are building in Kansas and all the BS hype they gave it. I think we did, there's quite a lot of news in the archive about ethanol plants in Kansas. Is that the 25-million gallon plant in Russell? The people that are building it had public meetings on the plant. They had an oil co rep that told people how they would buy the ethanol and mix it with gas. They told the farmers how that would pay top dollar for the grain and how everybody wins. Bull what they didn't tell is the only winners will be the plant owners and the oil co becouse after the ethanol is is processed and mixed with Fuel. The spent grain will be dryed and used in animal feed. Like Dog food, Cat food And Cattle feed Especially cattlefeed I think, DDGs. They sell the CO2 as well, to bottling companies mostly. DDGs make good sense with an on-farm ethanol operation - with the yeast residues, it's more nutritious (more protein) than the corn had in the first place. Probably no need to dry it either. I think it can be a win-win situation when it's small-scale, like this: The Butterfield Still -- This report provides details of the design, construction, operation and performance of the FSB Energy Fuel Alcohol Plant. http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_butterfield.html Farm-scale ethanol fuel production plant -- the Gildred/Butterfield Fuel Alcohol Plant, winner of the California Department of Food and Agriculture's Ethanol Fuel Plant Design Competition: Floyd Butterfield's on-farm still operation in full, complete with blueprints. Plant Description, Plant Operating Manual, Plant Performance Data, Plant Construction Guide, Recommendations, Appendixes and eight blueprints of the still, cooker and operating set-up. Operates continuously, 24 hours per day, 10 gallons per hour of 190 proof ethanol. Includes screw press blueprints and construction details. With many thanks to Garle A. Webb. http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/Butterfield/butterfield1.html just to name a few. I quite often quote Steve Spence saying here once that anything can be done badly and in 10 years we'll probably be fighting Big Ethanol tooth and nail like we fight Big Oil today. I think I got it right... Oh, here it is: I have a niggling feeling that 10 years from now, the environmentalists will be fighting the ethanol industry tooth and nail. anything can be done badly, and I expect the ADM's of the world will be successful in turning a clean renewable resource into a dirty unsustainable one.. onec agin I want to say Iam sorry if I made any one mad in the Group. Naah, not at all, but: All that said, more discussion on fuel ethanol is welcome. For which thankyou! Don't stop now: Do you make and use fuel ethanol? :-) Best wishes Keith Jim Allen Keith Addison wrote: If people would think Ethanol Can be processed form jusy about any Vegetation not just corn and grain. Even Grass can yeild Ethanol. If fermented but your yeild would be lower. Jim Allen What makes you think people don't think? The people here most certainly do think. Do a search in the archives for ethanol (without the quotes) and see what you find. Well, here's what you'll find: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?keywords=ethanollist=biofuel http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?keywords=ethanollist=biofuel - 3,950 messages dealing with ethanol, and another 560 here: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?keywords=ethanollist=biofuels-biz
Re: [biofuel] Ethanol fuel - was Re: SVO vs biodiesel - was Re: newby
Hello Keith As a chemist I use lots and lot of ethanol. for testing. And yes I have made Ethanol And yes I do use ethanol fuel. I am all ways looking for new way of makeing bio diesel fuel. I have one that I have been working for about a year I will Be willing to share to formula to see what other think. Best wishes Jim Allen Keith Addison wrote: Hello Jim Keith I'm not saying all people don't think And certainly not this group here. What I am saying is a person on the street. 9 out of 10 people that know about ethanol I wonder how many that would be? Or maybe how few: other posters have bemoaned the woefully inadequate level of promotion and public education from the Big Ethanol players like ADM. if you ask them how it is made or what it made out of they will corn or grain. Most would probably say corn (maize). Certainly not the best crop - though IMO there is no best crop, there are so many factors that mean much more than yield does when you get down to it, ie on a real farm at local level (and by real farm I mean a mixed farm, not a monocrop disaster). On the other hand, there's currently billions of bushels of surplus corn in the US - the cheapest thing for Americans to burn in their woodstoves. Might as well do something useful with it - and hopefully it might even occur to the Big Guys eventually that there's OIL in it too that they could use to make biodiesel as well as ethanol. But as long as ethanol and biofuels generally are treated as an agriculture issue, for the benefit of agribiz at everyone else's expense, and not an energy issue, I don't think we can expect any sensible behaviour, at least not at that level. At the level most people here operate at though it's a different matter. I don't know if you heard about the new ethanol plant they are building in Kansas and all the BS hype they gave it. I think we did, there's quite a lot of news in the archive about ethanol plants in Kansas. Is that the 25-million gallon plant in Russell? The people that are building it had public meetings on the plant. They had an oil co rep that told people how they would buy the ethanol and mix it with gas. They told the farmers how that would pay top dollar for the grain and how everybody wins. Bull what they didn't tell is the only winners will be the plant owners and the oil co becouse after the ethanol is is processed and mixed with Fuel. The spent grain will be dryed and used in animal feed. Like Dog food, Cat food And Cattle feed Especially cattlefeed I think, DDGs. They sell the CO2 as well, to bottling companies mostly. DDGs make good sense with an on-farm ethanol operation - with the yeast residues, it's more nutritious (more protein) than the corn had in the first place. Probably no need to dry it either. I think it can be a win-win situation when it's small-scale, like this: The Butterfield Still -- This report provides details of the design, construction, operation and performance of the FSB Energy Fuel Alcohol Plant. http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_butterfield.html Farm-scale ethanol fuel production plant -- the Gildred/Butterfield Fuel Alcohol Plant, winner of the California Department of Food and Agriculture's Ethanol Fuel Plant Design Competition: Floyd Butterfield's on-farm still operation in full, complete with blueprints. Plant Description, Plant Operating Manual, Plant Performance Data, Plant Construction Guide, Recommendations, Appendixes and eight blueprints of the still, cooker and operating set-up. Operates continuously, 24 hours per day, 10 gallons per hour of 190 proof ethanol. Includes screw press blueprints and construction details. With many thanks to Garle A. Webb. http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/Butterfield/butterfield1.html just to name a few. I quite often quote Steve Spence saying here once that anything can be done badly and in 10 years we'll probably be fighting Big Ethanol tooth and nail like we fight Big Oil today. I think I got it right... Oh, here it is: I have a niggling feeling that 10 years from now, the environmentalists will be fighting the ethanol industry tooth and nail. anything can be done badly, and I expect the ADM's of the world will be successful in turning a clean renewable resource into a dirty unsustainable one.. onec agin I want to say Iam sorry if I made any one mad in the Group. Naah, not at all, but: All that said, more discussion on fuel ethanol is welcome. For which thankyou! Don't stop now: Do you make and use fuel ethanol? :-) Best wishes Keith Jim Allen Keith Addison wrote: If people would think Ethanol Can be processed form jusy about any Vegetation not just corn and grain. Even Grass can yeild Ethanol. If fermented but your yeild would be lower. Jim Allen What makes you think people don't think? The people here most certainly do think. Do a search in the
Re: [biofuel] Ethanol fuel
Hello again Jim Hello Keith As a chemist I use lots and lot of ethanol. for testing. And yes I have made Ethanol And yes I do use ethanol fuel. I am all ways looking for new way of makeing bio diesel fuel. I have one that I have been working for about a year I will Be willing to share to formula to see what other think. Yes, please do that. The methods and technique that we now have available have come a very long way in the last three or four years and are highly efficient - anyone can make their own high-quality fuel cheaply and safely now. But small-scale biofuels technology development is not a job that will ever be finished, I'm sure you'll agree,and that's exactly what this forum is for. All best Keith Best wishes Jim Allen Keith Addison wrote: Hello Jim Keith I'm not saying all people don't think And certainly not this group here. What I am saying is a person on the street. 9 out of 10 people that know about ethanol I wonder how many that would be? Or maybe how few: other posters have bemoaned the woefully inadequate level of promotion and public education from the Big Ethanol players like ADM. if you ask them how it is made or what it made out of they will corn or grain. Most would probably say corn (maize). Certainly not the best crop - though IMO there is no best crop, there are so many factors that mean much more than yield does when you get down to it, ie on a real farm at local level (and by real farm I mean a mixed farm, not a monocrop disaster). On the other hand, there's currently billions of bushels of surplus corn in the US - the cheapest thing for Americans to burn in their woodstoves. Might as well do something useful with it - and hopefully it might even occur to the Big Guys eventually that there's OIL in it too that they could use to make biodiesel as well as ethanol. But as long as ethanol and biofuels generally are treated as an agriculture issue, for the benefit of agribiz at everyone else's expense, and not an energy issue, I don't think we can expect any sensible behaviour, at least not at that level. At the level most people here operate at though it's a different matter. I don't know if you heard about the new ethanol plant they are building in Kansas and all the BS hype they gave it. I think we did, there's quite a lot of news in the archive about ethanol plants in Kansas. Is that the 25-million gallon plant in Russell? The people that are building it had public meetings on the plant. They had an oil co rep that told people how they would buy the ethanol and mix it with gas. They told the farmers how that would pay top dollar for the grain and how everybody wins. Bull what they didn't tell is the only winners will be the plant owners and the oil co becouse after the ethanol is is processed and mixed with Fuel. The spent grain will be dryed and used in animal feed. Like Dog food, Cat food And Cattle feed Especially cattlefeed I think, DDGs. They sell the CO2 as well, to bottling companies mostly. DDGs make good sense with an on-farm ethanol operation - with the yeast residues, it's more nutritious (more protein) than the corn had in the first place. Probably no need to dry it either. I think it can be a win-win situation when it's small-scale, like this: The Butterfield Still -- This report provides details of the design, construction, operation and performance of the FSB Energy Fuel Alcohol Plant. http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_butterfield.html Farm-scale ethanol fuel production plant -- the Gildred/Butterfield Fuel Alcohol Plant, winner of the California Department of Food and Agriculture's Ethanol Fuel Plant Design Competition: Floyd Butterfield's on-farm still operation in full, complete with blueprints. Plant Description, Plant Operating Manual, Plant Performance Data, Plant Construction Guide, Recommendations, Appendixes and eight blueprints of the still, cooker and operating set-up. Operates continuously, 24 hours per day, 10 gallons per hour of 190 proof ethanol. Includes screw press blueprints and construction details. With many thanks to Garle A. Webb. http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/Butterfield/butterfield1.html just to name a few. I quite often quote Steve Spence saying here once that anything can be done badly and in 10 years we'll probably be fighting Big Ethanol tooth and nail like we fight Big Oil today. I think I got it right... Oh, here it is: I have a niggling feeling that 10 years from now, the environmentalists will be fighting the ethanol industry tooth and nail. anything can be done badly, and I expect the ADM's of the world will be successful in turning a clean renewable resource into a dirty unsustainable one.. onec agin I want to say Iam sorry if I made any one mad in the Group. Naah, not at all, but:
RE: [biofuel] Ethanol fuel engine alterations
The other really important thing to check is the corrosion potential of the other components in the fuel system and the engine itself. In particular check the compatibility of the seals and pipes. You should also make sure that the injectors are up to the task. Ethanol is very corrosive, mostly due to its affinity to water, but also in its own right. If you do not ensure that the material are suitable it can result in some catastrophic engine failures = very expensive. Suitable material components are usually available though. Good luck. Garry. -Original Message- From: robert luis rabello [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 4 July 2003 11:24 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Ethanol fuel engine alterations Chicago Medi-Transit wrote: I am looking for information that can provide me with difficulty or simplicity of converting a 2002 Ford E250 v6 engine to run on ethanol fuel. Information that I have discovered on the major auto makers websites are indirectly discouraging conversions expressing the difficulty. So I am seeking thoughts and suggestions from the group. Journey to Forever site briefly explains in one paragraph some minor changes. So if there is anyone that can assist me, it would be greatly appreciated. Check out this link: http://www.sdsefi.com/specific.html You should be able to run an EFI system using a high pressure fuel pump and this kind of adjustable, computerized injection control. Look into the 30# fuel injectors the guys running turbo and supercharged Mustangs are installing, and while you're at it, consider abnormal aspiration to enable maximum efficiency from the higher octane ethanol. Fuel injection should enable you to run lower proof ethanol. There is not a lot of information available for those of us with fuel injected engines, but from what I understand, high pressure fuel injection essentially eliminates the cold starting problems that plague carbureted engines. Other than that, you can look into the E 85 flexi fuel engines available from Ford. (You may even own one already!) You would need to mix pure ethanol (no water) with 15% gasoline, but this would require NO engine modifications whatsoever--the onboard computer will sense the specific gravity of the fuel and do its magic on your behalf. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Save on Coral Calcium. Get Better Health and Stronger Bones. Seen on TV http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid-2805lp=calcium2.asp http://us.click.yahoo.com/9gf46B/EfUGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Ethanol fuel engine alterations
Chicago Medi-Transit wrote: I am looking for information that can provide me with difficulty or simplicity of converting a 2002 Ford E250 v6 engine to run on ethanol fuel. Information that I have discovered on the major auto makers websites are indirectly discouraging conversions expressing the difficulty. So I am seeking thoughts and suggestions from the group. Journey to Forever site briefly explains in one paragraph some minor changes. So if there is anyone that can assist me, it would be greatly appreciated. Check out this link: http://www.sdsefi.com/specific.html You should be able to run an EFI system using a high pressure fuel pump and this kind of adjustable, computerized injection control. Look into the 30# fuel injectors the guys running turbo and supercharged Mustangs are installing, and while you're at it, consider abnormal aspiration to enable maximum efficiency from the higher octane ethanol. Fuel injection should enable you to run lower proof ethanol. There is not a lot of information available for those of us with fuel injected engines, but from what I understand, high pressure fuel injection essentially eliminates the cold starting problems that plague carbureted engines. Other than that, you can look into the E 85 flexi fuel engines available from Ford. (You may even own one already!) You would need to mix pure ethanol (no water) with 15% gasoline, but this would require NO engine modifications whatsoever--the onboard computer will sense the specific gravity of the fuel and do its magic on your behalf. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] ethanol fuel
/~dlaw70/alteng.htm#junkyard Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Mike brown's motor fuel cook book for corn to alcohol From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] ethanol fuel Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 22:51:45 -0500 Hi, The process for production of ethanol from starchy material e.g. Corn, potato, cassava etc. is offered by an Indian Company. The details are available on www.praj.net Ajay Soni India Juan Boveda [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: r.com.pybiofuel@yahoogroups.com cc: 01/31/02 Subject: RE: [biofuel] 04:41 PM ethanol fuel Please respond to biofuel Hi, Flashyrider About converting your engine, I have never done it, but I can tell you what I have seen in some 4 stroke/4 cylinders 1.3 L to 2.0 L ethanol powered Brazilian cars with some special devices installed at factory a) They changes the compression ratio to about 1/15 by diminishing the volume on the upper head of the combustion chamber (so you get maximum efficiency from ethanol that withstand high compression ratios) b) The ethanol needs to over 30¡ C room temperature to have enough amount of evaporation in carburettor, so they should add a preheating device or use an automatic controlled starting mixture of high octane gasoline or that is turn off when the engine reaches its working temp. c) You might add after the carburettor a hot comb or fingers made of aluminium in contact with some part of the exhaust as a heat exchanger, and add to the air intake a metal hose or cover around the exhaust of the engine if you are living in some cold climate country. Best regards, Juan Boveda Paraguay. -- De: flashyrider [EMAIL PROTECTED] A: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Asunto: [biofuel] ethanol fuel Fecha: Sbado 12 de Enero de 2002 5:38 PM Hi, I'm a new member to this group and if anyone could answer my questions I would be very grateful.' 1. What is the best recipe for converting potatoes to ethanol. Specifically, I have a recipe that says to just boil the potatoes and use only the liquid for fermentation. Is that the best way, or should I mash up the potatoes and try to convert all the starch? 2. Does anyone have a good recipe for converting corn to ethanol? 3. I built a valved reflux still and I need to know what is the best packing to use in the column. Right now, I'm using glass marbles with a 1/2 diameter. I have heard of using Raschig rings. Are they more efficient? How about steel wool? 4. I would like to convert my 2 cycle lawnmower to run on ethanol fuel. Any suggestions on engine conversion? Thanx. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ _ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] ethanol fuel
Mike brown's motor fuel cook book for corn to alcohol From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] ethanol fuel Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 22:51:45 -0500 Hi, The process for production of ethanol from starchy material e.g. Corn, potato, cassava etc. is offered by an Indian Company. The details are available on www.praj.net Ajay Soni India Juan Boveda [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: r.com.pybiofuel@yahoogroups.com cc: 01/31/02 Subject: RE: [biofuel] 04:41 PM ethanol fuel Please respond to biofuel Hi, Flashyrider About converting your engine, I have never done it, but I can tell you what I have seen in some 4 stroke/4 cylinders 1.3 L to 2.0 L ethanol powered Brazilian cars with some special devices installed at factory a) They changes the compression ratio to about 1/15 by diminishing the volume on the upper head of the combustion chamber (so you get maximum efficiency from ethanol that withstand high compression ratios) b) The ethanol needs to over 30¡ C room temperature to have enough amount of evaporation in carburettor, so they should add a preheating device or use an automatic controlled starting mixture of high octane gasoline or that is turn off when the engine reaches its working temp. c) You might add after the carburettor a hot comb or fingers made of aluminium in contact with some part of the exhaust as a heat exchanger, and add to the air intake a metal hose or cover around the exhaust of the engine if you are living in some cold climate country. Best regards, Juan Boveda Paraguay. -- De: flashyrider [EMAIL PROTECTED] A: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Asunto: [biofuel] ethanol fuel Fecha: Sbado 12 de Enero de 2002 5:38 PM Hi, I'm a new member to this group and if anyone could answer my questions I would be very grateful.' 1. What is the best recipe for converting potatoes to ethanol. Specifically, I have a recipe that says to just boil the potatoes and use only the liquid for fermentation. Is that the best way, or should I mash up the potatoes and try to convert all the starch? 2. Does anyone have a good recipe for converting corn to ethanol? 3. I built a valved reflux still and I need to know what is the best packing to use in the column. Right now, I'm using glass marbles with a 1/2 diameter. I have heard of using Raschig rings. Are they more efficient? How about steel wool? 4. I would like to convert my 2 cycle lawnmower to run on ethanol fuel. Any suggestions on engine conversion? Thanx. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ _ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] ethanol fuel
Hi, Flashyrider About converting your engine, I have never done it, but I can tell you what I have seen in some 4 stroke/4 cylinders 1.3 L to 2.0 L ethanol powered Brazilian cars with some special devices installed at factory a) They changes the compression ratio to about 1/15 by diminishing the volume on the upper head of the combustion chamber (so you get maximum efficiency from ethanol that withstand high compression ratios) b) The ethanol needs to over 30¡ C room temperature to have enough amount of evaporation in carburettor, so they should add a preheating device or use an automatic controlled starting mixture of high octane gasoline or that is turn off when the engine reaches its working temp. c) You might add after the carburettor a hot comb or fingers made of aluminium in contact with some part of the exhaust as a heat exchanger, and add to the air intake a metal hose or cover around the exhaust of the engine if you are living in some cold climate country. Best regards, Juan Boveda Paraguay. -- De: flashyrider [EMAIL PROTECTED] A: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Asunto: [biofuel] ethanol fuel Fecha: Sbado 12 de Enero de 2002 5:38 PM Hi, I'm a new member to this group and if anyone could answer my questions I would be very grateful.' 1. What is the best recipe for converting potatoes to ethanol. Specifically, I have a recipe that says to just boil the potatoes and use only the liquid for fermentation. Is that the best way, or should I mash up the potatoes and try to convert all the starch? 2. Does anyone have a good recipe for converting corn to ethanol? 3. I built a valved reflux still and I need to know what is the best packing to use in the column. Right now, I'm using glass marbles with a 1/2 diameter. I have heard of using Raschig rings. Are they more efficient? How about steel wool? 4. I would like to convert my 2 cycle lawnmower to run on ethanol fuel. Any suggestions on engine conversion? Thanx. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] ethanol fuel
Hi, The process for production of ethanol from starchy material e.g. Corn, potato, cassava etc. is offered by an Indian Company. The details are available on www.praj.net Ajay Soni India Juan Boveda [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: r.com.pybiofuel@yahoogroups.com cc: 01/31/02 Subject: RE: [biofuel] 04:41 PM ethanol fuel Please respond to biofuel Hi, Flashyrider About converting your engine, I have never done it, but I can tell you what I have seen in some 4 stroke/4 cylinders 1.3 L to 2.0 L ethanol powered Brazilian cars with some special devices installed at factory a) They changes the compression ratio to about 1/15 by diminishing the volume on the upper head of the combustion chamber (so you get maximum efficiency from ethanol that withstand high compression ratios) b) The ethanol needs to over 30¡ C room temperature to have enough amount of evaporation in carburettor, so they should add a preheating device or use an automatic controlled starting mixture of high octane gasoline or that is turn off when the engine reaches its working temp. c) You might add after the carburettor a hot comb or fingers made of aluminium in contact with some part of the exhaust as a heat exchanger, and add to the air intake a metal hose or cover around the exhaust of the engine if you are living in some cold climate country. Best regards, Juan Boveda Paraguay. -- De: flashyrider [EMAIL PROTECTED] A: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Asunto: [biofuel] ethanol fuel Fecha: Sbado 12 de Enero de 2002 5:38 PM Hi, I'm a new member to this group and if anyone could answer my questions I would be very grateful.' 1. What is the best recipe for converting potatoes to ethanol. Specifically, I have a recipe that says to just boil the potatoes and use only the liquid for fermentation. Is that the best way, or should I mash up the potatoes and try to convert all the starch? 2. Does anyone have a good recipe for converting corn to ethanol? 3. I built a valved reflux still and I need to know what is the best packing to use in the column. Right now, I'm using glass marbles with a 1/2 diameter. I have heard of using Raschig rings. Are they more efficient? How about steel wool? 4. I would like to convert my 2 cycle lawnmower to run on ethanol fuel. Any suggestions on engine conversion? Thanx. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] ethanol fuel
Hi, I'm a new member to this group and if anyone could answer my questions I would be very grateful.' 1. What is the best recipe for converting potatoes to ethanol. Specifically, I have a recipe that says to just boil the potatoes and use only the liquid for fermentation. Is that the best way, or should I mash up the potatoes and try to convert all the starch? Re starch, potatoes, malts and much else, see the Alcohol Fuel Manual, Chapter 7 deals with processing starchy materials, Chapter 10 has a section on potatoes: The Manual for the Home and Farm Production of Alcohol Fuel, by S.W. Mathewson http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_manual/manual_ToC.html For further information see also Mother Earth Alcohol Fuel: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/meToC.html See below for a message from the archives on processing potatoes from David Reid, who unfortunately is no longer a list member. 2. Does anyone have a good recipe for converting corn to ethanol? See above refs. 3. I built a valved reflux still and I need to know what is the best packing to use in the column. Right now, I'm using glass marbles with a 1/2 diameter. I have heard of using Raschig rings. Are they more efficient? How about steel wool? It'll rust. Best: stainless steel pot scrubbers, followed by Raschig rings (expensive), marbles third. Go to Tony Ackland's site, you'll find much useful information there. http://www.homedistiller.org 4. I would like to convert my 2 cycle lawnmower to run on ethanol fuel. Any suggestions on engine conversion? Geese are better than lawnmowers. :-) Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Thanx. From David Reid, 10/4/00: Potatoes are harder than most people think and you need a bit of experience to get them right. Books make it sound so easy because they tend to simpIify the process and take for granted that you have a full understanding and experience of all the steps involved quite often leaving out some of the elementary steps. Most of us need to fully understand the basics first before we really begin to learn. I have not tried potatoes yet myself but know this from my reading, broad experiernce of other aspects, and experience with other forms of starch. What you will probably need to do is what is called a Stepped Infusion Mash. This is where you start the saccharification process at a low temperature and then move it up in steps, halting for a certain time period at each step to give each enzyme time to break down as much as they can at each stage. If you have made beer in the past using an all-grain mash you will understand the process. To get a feeling for it and to understand the process better try the following: 1) Cook your potatoes so they are still stiff - about 12- 15 minutes at reasonable heat. Up to 20 minutes at low heat. Note they should still be a bit undercooked, definitely not soft, mushy, or floury. 2) Add coarsely milled barley (particles mostly about 1/16 to 3/32 in size. Definitely not too fine.). Use malted Ale barley or standard malted barley rather than Lager barley as it is definitely higher in enzymes and enzymatic action. Note you need sprouted malted barley not spray-dried malt which is normally on a maltodextrin base and has had most of the enzymes destroyed or inactivated because of the excessive heat used in the drying process. 3) Cover with sufficient water and bring to 113 F (45 C). Hold 15 minutes stirring regularly. 4) Bring up to 133 F (56 C). Hold 15 minutes etc. 5) Bring up to 149 F (65 C). Hold 15 minutes stirring constantly. 6) Bring up to 158 F (70 C). Hold 15 minutes stirring constantly. All up this makes 60 minutes which should suffice for a small batch. Some batches will take longer especially bigger batches. Most of the liquifaction and saccharification occurs in steps 5 6 rather than 3 4. If you want to alter this reduce 3 4 to 10 minutes and increase 5 6 to 20 minutes or longer where required. 7) Once virtually all the starch is liquified and broken down to simple sugars to halt the enzymatic process raise the temp to 176 F (80 C) (Mashing Out) and then drop it back as quickly as possible to between 140 F (60 C) and 122 F (50 C) so the sugars dont get scorched or burnt. 8) Cool down further to 75 F (24 C), establish an SG of 1060 (min) to 1080 (max = ideal) and begin fermentation. If you muck around with the basic formula doing several batches, altering the temperature and times a small amount each time you will quickly get a feel for it and learn far more than you can learn initially out of books or I can spell out for you. I suggest you start with 3 or 4 kg of potatoes and 1/2 kg of barley each time so you have plenty of enzymes together with a very large pot so it dosnt boil over. Once you have got this basic process under control and gained a bit of experience I can help you further with advice and help with enzymes. Also once
Re: [biofuel] ethanol fuel
- Original Message - From: flashyrider Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 13:38 Subject: [biofuel] ethanol fuel 3. I built a valved reflux still and I need to know what is the best packing to use in the column. Right now, I'm using glass marbles with a 1/2 diameter. I have heard of using Raschig rings. Are they more efficient? How about steel wool? Steel wool would rust away real fast, the best way I have read about (a few years ago), is fill the reflux colunm with copper wool (check the kitchen or cleaner section of the local Safeway for copper scrub pads). Greg H. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vf6MrB/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] ethanol fuel
copper or stainless steel pot scrubbers work very well. (sans soap of course) expand them alittle bit,don't pack them tightly. section of them spaced a couple of inches apart depending on the height of you column. regards, roger kurz ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - Original Message - From: flashyrider Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 13:38 Subject: [biofuel] ethanol fuel 3. I built a valved reflux still and I need to know what is the best packing to use in the column. Right now, I'm using glass marbles with a 1/2 diameter. I have heard of using Raschig rings. Are they more efficient? How about steel wool? Steel wool would rust away real fast, the best way I have read about (a few years ago), is fill the reflux colunm with copper wool (check the kitchen or cleaner section of the local Safeway for copper scrub pads). Greg H. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] ethanol fuel
Stainless steel scrubbers work very well. --- Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 3. I built a valved reflux still and I need to know what is the best packing to use in the column. Right now, I'm using glass marbles with a 1/2 diameter. I have heard of using Raschig rings. Are they more efficient? How about steel wool? = -Martin Klingensmith http://devzero.ath.cx/ http://www.nnytech.net/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vf6MrB/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
