Re: [Biofuel] distilling fuel/reactant ethanol
Jan Warnqvist pravi: Hello Jason and Kate, the reason for this is simple. The castor oil (unlike most other vegetable oils) is ethanol soluble. This means that most other oils will not do the trick. With best regards Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: "Jason & Katie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 6:31 AM Subject: [Biofuel] distilling fuel/reactant ethanol i pulled a paper from the library describing separating ethanol from water using castor oil. can this be done using any kind of oil, or are their certain characteristics of the oil not described in the paper? http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/eth_separate.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ I'm interested in separating ethanol from water using castor oil,so does anyone know what is the adsorption power of caster oil and under what conditions. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] distilling fuel/reactant ethanol
On May 4, 2006, at 8:21 PM, Jason & Katie wrote: > > if one were to apply vacuum to a castor based alcohol > refinery, the heat required would be considerably less, > therefore the front-end energy requirements would be > less. does it make sense to use this to speed the > vaporization process? Absolutely, if you can produce the required vacuum for less energy than the heat you'll save. > > AND > > all the permit applications and tax references i have looked > up, at least in the US, require fuel grade alcohol to be > denatured at a minimum of at least 5% to qualify for the > alcohol tax exemption(not sales or road taxes ). can > castor oil be used as a denaturant? I don't believe so, but you can study the various types of denatured ethanol at the Pharmco-Aaper site here: http://www.pharmco-prod.com/pages/ethanoldenatured.html There is one formula for a CDA (completely denatured alcohol) that only requires 2% denaturant -- namely, gasoline. -K ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] distilling fuel/reactant ethanol
Jason & Katie, You wrote: "all the permit applications and tax references i have looked up, at least in the US, require fuel grade alcohol to be denatured at a minimum of at least 5% to qualify for the alcohol tax exemption(not sales or road taxes ). can castor oil be used as a denaturant? unless taken in large amounts it is generally not harmful to humans, it is biodegradeable, and as we discussed previously, it dissolves in alcohol. as an added bonus, drinking castor treated alcohol should in theory make a person violently ill with very few lasting side effects (i think the threat -even percieved- of violent diarrhea and vomiting would be a powerful deterrent to drinking the stuff anyway.)" According to the Code of Federal Regulations "Title 27 Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms Sec. 19.1005 Authorized Materials. (a) General. The Director shalldetermine and authorize for use materials for rendering spiirts unfit for beverage use which will ot impair the quality of the spirits for fuel use. ... (b)List. The Director will compile and issue periodically a list of materials authorized for rendering spirits unfit for beverage use. . The list may be obtained at no cost upon request from the ATF distribution Center, 7943 Angus Court, Springfield, Virginia 22153. (c) Authorized Material. Until issuance of the initial list of materials authorized for rendering spirits unfit for beverage use, proprietors are authorized to add to each 100 gallons of spirits any of the following materials in quantities specified. (1) 2 gallons or more of -- (i) Gasoline ... (EPA may require unleaded if the fuel is to be used in engines that require unleaded gas). (ii) Kerosene (iii) Deodorized kerosene (iv) Rubber hydrocarbon solvent (v) Methyl isobutyl ketone (vi) Mixed isomers of nitropropane (vii) Heptane, or (viii) Any combination of (i) through (vii): or (2) \1/8\ ounce of denatonium benzoate N.F. and 2 gallons of isopropyl alcohol." So if you were to use gasoline it would be ~ 2% gasoline and 98% ethanol. The regulations can be found at the following link to Part 19. The AFP regulations begin at subpart Y of Part 19. http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_05/27cfr19_05.html Page after page of fascinating reading. Best to you, Tom - Original Message - From: "Jason & Katie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 11:21 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] distilling fuel/reactant ethanol >i had another thought, (scary huh?) > > these are the presumptions this idea revolves around: > > 1. exposing a substance to vacuum lowers the boiling point > 2. a substance under vacuum vaporizes more quickly than at atmospheric > pressure > 3. excess energy or energy byproduct (normally lost) tapped from another > source to produce vacuum qualifies as a low cost, if not (net, > at least) free expenditure. > > if one were to apply vacuum to a castor based alcohol refinery, the heat > required would be considerably less, therefore the front-end energy > requirements would be less. does it make sense to use this to speed the > vaporization process, or am i just lost? > > AND > > all the permit applications and tax references i have looked up, at least > in > the US, require fuel grade alcohol to be denatured at a minimum of at > least > 5% to qualify for the alcohol tax exemption(not sales or road taxes ). can > castor oil be used as a denaturant? unless taken in large amounts it is > generally not harmful to humans, it is biodegradeable, and as we discussed > previously, it dissolves in alcohol. as an added bonus, drinking castor > treated alcohol should in theory make a person violently ill with very few > lasting side effects (i think the threat -even percieved- of violent > diarrhea and vomiting would be a powerful deterrent to drinking the stuff > anyway.) > > I can feel the laser dots on my forehead already... > > > > ___ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] distilling fuel/reactant ethanol
Jason & Katie wrote > 1. exposing a substance to vacuum lowers the boiling point In some instances this is used to lower the temperature such as in the extraction of Tee Tree oils. This gives the oil derived by such means a higher re-sale value as it is not "boiled" off at high temperatures. > 2. a substance under vacuum vaporizes more quickly than at atmospheric > pressure This brings to me yet another question. A lot of old automotive sensors using capillary tubes used an alcohol base as the expansion medium. How does Ethanol compare to R134a as a refrigerant? From what I can glean the freezing temp is low and the boiling point low thus close to an ideal refrigerant? Doug -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Lao Telecom MailScanner with NOD32, and is believed to be clean. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] distilling fuel/reactant ethanol
i had another thought, (scary huh?) these are the presumptions this idea revolves around: 1. exposing a substance to vacuum lowers the boiling point 2. a substance under vacuum vaporizes more quickly than at atmospheric pressure 3. excess energy or energy byproduct (normally lost) tapped from another source to produce vacuum qualifies as a low cost, if not (net, at least) free expenditure. if one were to apply vacuum to a castor based alcohol refinery, the heat required would be considerably less, therefore the front-end energy requirements would be less. does it make sense to use this to speed the vaporization process, or am i just lost? AND all the permit applications and tax references i have looked up, at least in the US, require fuel grade alcohol to be denatured at a minimum of at least 5% to qualify for the alcohol tax exemption(not sales or road taxes ). can castor oil be used as a denaturant? unless taken in large amounts it is generally not harmful to humans, it is biodegradeable, and as we discussed previously, it dissolves in alcohol. as an added bonus, drinking castor treated alcohol should in theory make a person violently ill with very few lasting side effects (i think the threat -even percieved- of violent diarrhea and vomiting would be a powerful deterrent to drinking the stuff anyway.) I can feel the laser dots on my forehead already... ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] distilling fuel/reactant ethanol
>i think im going to try it, at least, going to the store for some everclear >and a bottle of castor. i have no room for a full fledged still in my >pinky-dinky apartment. and another odd question, what kind of problems would >i have if i used castor oil instead of engine oil, in -say- a lawnmower? >anyone tried that? Castrol tried it. Check this out, Jason: > >>> http://www.georgiacombat.com/CASTOR_OIL.htm > >>> CASTOR OIL Best Keith >jason >- Original Message - >From: "Paul S Cantrell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: >Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 11:38 AM >Subject: Re: [Biofuel] distilling fuel/reactant ethanol > > > > After thinking about this and searching the archives... > > > > Anyone actually doing this? > > > > What is the minimun amount of castor oil per volume of water/ethanol > > solution to be effective? > > > > Are there any applications where the castor/ethanol solution could be > > burned directly? i.e. in an diesel/gasoline(RUG) engine, heater, etc. > > mixed with RUG, BD? > > > > Will the castor/ethanol mix with RUG, since it has very low water? > > Will it mix well with diesel or biodiesel. > > > > ...thinking out loud. > > > > On 4/23/06, Jan Warnqvist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Hello Jason and Kate, > >> the reason for this is simple. The castor oil (unlike most other > >> vegetable > >> oils) is ethanol soluble. This means that most other oils will not do the > >> trick. > >> With best regards > >> Jan Warnqvist > >> AGERATEC AB > >> > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > >> + 46 554 201 89 > >> +46 70 499 38 45 > >> - Original Message - > >> From: "Jason & Katie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> To: > >> Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 6:31 AM > >> Subject: [Biofuel] distilling fuel/reactant ethanol > >> > >> > >> > i pulled a paper from the library describing separating ethanol from > >> > water > >> > using castor oil. can this be done using any kind of oil, or are their > >> > certain characteristics of the oil not described in the paper? > >> > > >> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/eth_separate.html > >> > > > > > > -- > > Thanks, > > PC > > > > He's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switch > > > > We don't know a millionth of one percent about anything. - Thomas A Edison ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] distilling fuel/reactant ethanol
what if you took the dome still from the ethanol manual and combined it with the castor oil method? or even a combination of the upright solar still and the castor dome in a series? http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/eth_separate.html http://www.journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_manual/manual15.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] distilling fuel/reactant ethanol
i think im going to try it, at least, going to the store for some everclear and a bottle of castor. i have no room for a full fledged still in my pinky-dinky apartment. and another odd question, what kind of problems would i have if i used castor oil instead of engine oil, in -say- a lawnmower? anyone tried that? jason - Original Message - From: "Paul S Cantrell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 11:38 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] distilling fuel/reactant ethanol > After thinking about this and searching the archives... > > Anyone actually doing this? > > What is the minimun amount of castor oil per volume of water/ethanol > solution to be effective? > > Are there any applications where the castor/ethanol solution could be > burned directly? i.e. in an diesel/gasoline(RUG) engine, heater, etc. > mixed with RUG, BD? > > Will the castor/ethanol mix with RUG, since it has very low water? > Will it mix well with diesel or biodiesel. > > ...thinking out loud. > > On 4/23/06, Jan Warnqvist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Hello Jason and Kate, >> the reason for this is simple. The castor oil (unlike most other >> vegetable >> oils) is ethanol soluble. This means that most other oils will not do the >> trick. >> With best regards >> Jan Warnqvist >> AGERATEC AB >> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> + 46 554 201 89 >> +46 70 499 38 45 >> - Original Message - >> From: "Jason & Katie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: >> Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 6:31 AM >> Subject: [Biofuel] distilling fuel/reactant ethanol >> >> >> > i pulled a paper from the library describing separating ethanol from >> > water >> > using castor oil. can this be done using any kind of oil, or are their >> > certain characteristics of the oil not described in the paper? >> > >> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/eth_separate.html >> > > > -- > Thanks, > PC > > He's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switch > > We don't know a millionth of one percent about anything. - Thomas A Edison > > ___ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.5/322 - Release Date: 4/22/2006 > > ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] distilling fuel/reactant ethanol
Helow Paul The non renewable energy sector with its good marketing system make people not think of this noval Biofuel system .Here we are very sucessful to make the direct burning of caster oil and alcohol for cooking.Very cheap stoves can be used for doing the cooking , not having smoke. Better than kerosene. The rural energy is the root cause of the underdevelopments. Several tones of fruits of bad quality, here to be estimated to be more than 40 porcent of the fruits expoted , are all wasted, can be very easily fermented and the extraction process without distillation can be done any rural people , no chemicals needed, leading to vable biofuel . Together with petrol pump , this mixture of etanol castor can be sold , as an good additivos for IC engines . Wishing a good sucessPaul S Cantrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: After thinking about this and searching the archives...Anyone actually doing this?What is the minimun amount of castor oil per volume of water/ethanolsolution to be effective?Are there any applications where the castor/ethanol solution could beburned directly? i.e. in an diesel/gasoline(RUG) engine, heater, etc.mixed with RUG, BD?Will the castor/ethanol mix with RUG, since it has very low water? Will it mix well with diesel or biodieselthinking out loud.On 4/23/06, Jan Warnqvist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> Hello Jason and Kate,> the reason for this is simple. The castor oil (unlike most other vegetable> oils) is ethanol soluble. This means that most other oils will not do the> trick.> With best regards> Jan Warnqvist> AGERATEC AB>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>> + 46 554 201 89> +46 70 499 38 45> - Original Message -> From: "Jason & Katie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> To: > Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 6:31 AM> Subject: [Biofuel] distilling fuel/reactant ethanol>>> > i pulled a paper from the library describing separating ethanol from water> > using castor oil. can this be done using any kind of oil, or are their> > certain characteristics of the oil not described in the paper?> >> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/eth_separate.html>--Thanks,PCHe's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switchWe don't know a millionth of one percent about anything. - Thomas A Edison___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2¢/min with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] distilling fuel/reactant ethanol
After thinking about this and searching the archives... Anyone actually doing this? What is the minimun amount of castor oil per volume of water/ethanol solution to be effective? Are there any applications where the castor/ethanol solution could be burned directly? i.e. in an diesel/gasoline(RUG) engine, heater, etc. mixed with RUG, BD? Will the castor/ethanol mix with RUG, since it has very low water? Will it mix well with diesel or biodiesel. ...thinking out loud. On 4/23/06, Jan Warnqvist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hello Jason and Kate, > the reason for this is simple. The castor oil (unlike most other vegetable > oils) is ethanol soluble. This means that most other oils will not do the > trick. > With best regards > Jan Warnqvist > AGERATEC AB > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > + 46 554 201 89 > +46 70 499 38 45 > - Original Message - > From: "Jason & Katie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 6:31 AM > Subject: [Biofuel] distilling fuel/reactant ethanol > > > > i pulled a paper from the library describing separating ethanol from water > > using castor oil. can this be done using any kind of oil, or are their > > certain characteristics of the oil not described in the paper? > > > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/eth_separate.html > -- Thanks, PC He's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switch We don't know a millionth of one percent about anything. - Thomas A Edison ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] distilling fuel/reactant ethanol
Hello Jason and Kate, the reason for this is simple. The castor oil (unlike most other vegetable oils) is ethanol soluble. This means that most other oils will not do the trick. With best regards Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: "Jason & Katie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 6:31 AM Subject: [Biofuel] distilling fuel/reactant ethanol > i pulled a paper from the library describing separating ethanol from water > using castor oil. can this be done using any kind of oil, or are their > certain characteristics of the oil not described in the paper? > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/eth_separate.html > > > ___ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
