Re: [Biofuel] sometimes anger can motivate
Doug, Regarding the post in question. I understood what you were doing then, and I'll say again that I appreciate the way you chose to handle it. Had it not been my father as the one who sent the info to me, it would have been completely a non-issue for me. However, when you combine that fact, and my neglecting to check out dad's email (g), it did lead to some embarrassment on my part. But, it's the mistakes you remember that you don't repeat, right? So, let's be done with this. AntiFossil Mike Krafka Minnesota USA - Original Message - From: Doug Younker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 4:33 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] sometimes anger can motivate Keith; It would seem I interpreted the guidelines too strictly. Mike; I think it's fairly obvious that I don't shy from posting my opinion. I hesitated on that one post because of my feeling, be it online or in the real world, it's in poor taste to point out a non-technical error in public. Even then I'm likely to put it as a question. Back to the other stuff in the biofuel folder... Doug ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] sometimes anger can motivate
Some years ago While I was repairing a motor control one an oil well pumping unit. Along comes a Kansas game warden and he got out of his vehicle and struck up a conversation, being who I am I engage in the conversation not thinking about it. Soon it became apparent the jerk was trying to trip me so I cooled my tone and he got the hint and left. In addition to doing what John described he asked me questions he should have known the answers to if he was the paycheck he was getting. Doug - Original Message - From: John Guttridge [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 8:34 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] sometimes anger can motivate : : not really critical to national security to know the answers but they : are trying to make you slip up if you have a false story. they will ask : you the same questions with different enough wording that if you aren't : really on point and your story isn't true they are likely to catch it. : : for example if they asked are you married and you said no and then : they asked how do you know each other and you said this is my wife. : they they lock you up and watch what you poo for a few days (ick, glad : that isn't my job) and search all your stuff. : : ___ : Biofuel mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel : : Biofuel at Journey to Forever: : http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html : : Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): : http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ : ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] sometimes anger can motivate
inform not embarrass. I really hesitated about clicking on send. This is way I don't care for the prohibition of emailing other list members off-list, there are times it is warranted. Doug It's not a prohibition Doug. People do it all the time, no problem, well and good. Have another look: Don't call for an offlist response unless you have a special reason. If it's discussed on-list, everybody can share in the discussion, more people will contribute, you'll end up with much better answers, and it will all be in the archives for future seekers to find there. What this is directed at is people who ask a question on a subject of general interest to the list and ask for offlist responses, so a potentially valuable discussion is lost to the rest of us, probably the discussion is poorer for it too, and nothing gets into the archives for future seekers to find. Something else that's frowned on is what a few people have done here before - they see something that upsets them (off topic political crap, LOL!) and send nasty offlist messages to everyone concerned. But in general, no prohibition. The great majority of people here are sensible and know how to behave, they can be trusted to judge when something should be onlist and when an offlist comment is pertinent. I have the impression that quite a number of offlist friendships have sprung up between list members over the years, starting just that way. I surely wouldn't prohibit it! In this case, I'd've been surprised if Mike had been offended, and on the other hand, if it's not genuine it's probably best that everyone who saw it knows that, but also I take your point, I wouldn't have argued against whichever decision you'd reached, your prerogative. Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] sometimes anger can motivate
Doug and Kieth, I really enjoyed recent exchanges in this forum. I really hesitated about clicking on send Doug; Please continue to share your point of view. I'm sure you are aware by now that I have become disenchanted with my government, my president and to some extent, parts of the culture in which I live. I struggle not to become too negative or overzealous with expressing my opinions -- especially in a forum that makes such discussions off-topic. I feel strongly that the most one can do, to act locally, is to inspire and even provoke social discourse. So, I'm sure you can relate to the dilemma of wanting to do this in situations that might not be appropriate. Regards, Mike Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mike; glad to hear you read my response mostly in the light I sent it in, to inform not embarrass. I really hesitated about clicking on send. This is way I don't care for the prohibition of emailing other list members off-list, there are times it is warranted. Doug It's not a prohibition Doug. People do it all the time, no problem, well and good. Have another look: Don't call for an offlist response unless you have a special reason. If it's discussed on-list, everybody can share in the discussion, more people will contribute, you'll end up with much better answers, and it will all be in the archives for future seekers to find there. What this is directed at is people who ask a question on a subject of general interest to the list and ask for offlist responses, so a potentially valuable discussion is lost to the rest of us, probably the discussion is poorer for it too, and nothing gets into the archives for future seekers to find. Something else that's frowned on is what a few people have done here before - they see something that upsets them (off topic political crap, LOL!) and send nasty offlist messages to everyone concerned. But in general, no prohibition. The great majority of people here are sensible and know how to behave, they can be trusted to judge when something should be onlist and when an offlist comment is pertinent. I have the impression that quite a number of offlist friendships have sprung up between list members over the years, starting just that way. I surely wouldn't prohibit it! In this case, I'd've been surprised if Mike had been offended, and on the other hand, if it's not genuine it's probably best that everyone who saw it knows that, but also I take your point, I wouldn't have argued against whichever decision you'd reached, your prerogative. Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] sometimes anger can motivate
Keith; It would seem I interpreted the guidelines too strictly. Mike; I think it's fairly obvious that I don't shy from posting my opinion. I hesitated on that one post because of my feeling, be it online or in the real world, it's in poor taste to point out a non-technical error in public. Even then I'm likely to put it as a question. Back to the other stuff in the biofuel folder... Doug ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] sometimes anger can motivate
There are many wars in our history that we provoked (i.e.Vietnam) and other acts of war that we let slip into obscurity depending on our agenda (i.e. USS Liberty). I'm not even including the numerous proxy wars fought for us all over the world. Some bright spark of a journalist used the freedom of information act last year and found the US government had directly engaged in or actively paid for 72 incursions/insurrections on other sovereign countries since 1945. 73 and 74 coming up shortly. Chris. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.6 - Release Date: 07/02/2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] sometimes anger can motivate
URL to the story your dad sent you http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/pensions.asp Have a nice day. Luc - Original Message - From: Anti-Fossil [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 2:42 PM Subject: [Biofuel] sometimes anger can motivate I just received this from my father, with no references, of course, to verify any of the numbers contained within. However, I do know him to be an honest, and trustworthy man. So, while I cannot vouge for the validity of the specifics of this post, I can, without hesitation, say that if my father wrote it, and sent it to me, I'll stand by it. The following goes to the core of what is wrong with the alleged leadership of this country. It is no wonder the rest of the world has lost all respect for our country (speaking to the American list members). The hypocrisy revealed here makes me angry. It is absolute insanity for elected officials to be pampered for life like this when the rest of the country, and indeed the world, are facing issues like hunger, unsafe drinking water, war, etc., etc.??? That's enough from me, SOCIAL SECURITY: (This is worth reading. It is short and to the point.) Perhaps we are asking the wrong questions during election years. Our Senators and Congress women do not pay into Social Security and, of course, they do not collect from it. You see, Social Security benefits were not suitable for persons of their rare elevation in society. They felt they should have a special plan for themselves. So, many years ago they voted in their own benefit plan. In more recent years, no congressperson has felt the need to change it. After all, it is a great plan. For all practical purposes their plan works like this: When they retire, they continue to draw the same pay until they die. Except it may increase from time to time for cost of living adjustments.. For example, Senator Byrd and Congressman White and their wives may expect to draw $7,800,000.00 (that's Seven Million, Eight-Hundred Thousand Dollars), with their wives drawing $275,000.00 during the last years of their lives. This is calculated on an average life span for each of those two Dignitaries. Younger Dignitaries who retire at an early age, will receive much more during the rest of their lives. Their cost for this excellent plan is $0.00. NADAZILCH This little perk they voted for themselves is free to them. You and I pick up the tab for this plan. The funds for this fine retirement plan come directly from the General Funds; OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK! From our own Social Security Plan, which you and I pay (or have paid) into, - every payday until we retire (which amount is matched by our employer) - we can expect to get an average of $1,000 per month after retirement. Or, in other words, we would have to collect our average of $1,000 monthly benefits for 68 years and one (1) month to equal Senator Bill Bradley's benefits! Social Security could be very good if only one small change were made. That change would be to jerk the Golden Fleece Retirement Plan from under the Senators and Congressmen. Put them into the Social Security plan with the rest of us! Then sit backand watch how fast they would fix it. If enough people receive this, maybe a seed of awareness will be planted and maybe good changes will evolve. J.E.Krafka AntiFossil Mike Krafka Minnesota USA ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] sometimes anger can motivate
Mike; the text below is new to me however, everything between it and the J.E.Krafka signature regularly makes a round in email forwards, Sorry to say. Visit http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/pensions.asp Doug - Original Message - From: Anti-Fossil [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 1:42 PM Subject: [Biofuel] sometimes anger can motivate : I just received this from my father, with no references, of course, to : verify any of the numbers contained within. However, I do know him to be an : honest, and trustworthy man. So, while I cannot vouge for the validity of : the specifics of this post, I can, without hesitation, say that if my father : wrote it, and sent it to me, I'll stand by it. : The following goes to the core of what is wrong with the alleged : leadership of this country. It is no wonder the rest of the world has lost : all respect for our country (speaking to the American list members). The : hypocrisy revealed here makes me angry. It is absolute insanity for elected : officials to be pampered for life like this when the rest of the country, : and indeed the world, are facing issues like hunger, unsafe drinking water, : war, etc., etc.??? ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] sometimes anger can motivate
Thank you Luc AntiFossil Mike Krafka Minnesota USA - Original Message - From: Legal Eagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 6:28 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] sometimes anger can motivate G'day Mike; URL to the story your dad sent you http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/pensions.asp Have a nice day. Luc - Original Message - From: Anti-Fossil [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 2:42 PM Subject: [Biofuel] sometimes anger can motivate I just received this from my father, with no references, of course, to verify any of the numbers contained within. However, I do know him to be an honest, and trustworthy man. So, while I cannot vouge for the validity of the specifics of this post, I can, without hesitation, say that if my father wrote it, and sent it to me, I'll stand by it. The following goes to the core of what is wrong with the alleged leadership of this country. It is no wonder the rest of the world has lost all respect for our country (speaking to the American list members). The hypocrisy revealed here makes me angry. It is absolute insanity for elected officials to be pampered for life like this when the rest of the country, and indeed the world, are facing issues like hunger, unsafe drinking water, war, etc., etc.??? That's enough from me, SOCIAL SECURITY: (This is worth reading. It is short and to the point.) Perhaps we are asking the wrong questions during election years. Our Senators and Congress women do not pay into Social Security and, of course, they do not collect from it. You see, Social Security benefits were not suitable for persons of their rare elevation in society. They felt they should have a special plan for themselves. So, many years ago they voted in their own benefit plan. In more recent years, no congressperson has felt the need to change it. After all, it is a great plan. For all practical purposes their plan works like this: When they retire, they continue to draw the same pay until they die. Except it may increase from time to time for cost of living adjustments.. For example, Senator Byrd and Congressman White and their wives may expect to draw $7,800,000.00 (that's Seven Million, Eight-Hundred Thousand Dollars), with their wives drawing $275,000.00 during the last years of their lives. This is calculated on an average life span for each of those two Dignitaries. Younger Dignitaries who retire at an early age, will receive much more during the rest of their lives. Their cost for this excellent plan is $0.00. NADAZILCH This little perk they voted for themselves is free to them. You and I pick up the tab for this plan. The funds for this fine retirement plan come directly from the General Funds; OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK! From our own Social Security Plan, which you and I pay (or have paid) into, - every payday until we retire (which amount is matched by our employer) - we can expect to get an average of $1,000 per month after retirement. Or, in other words, we would have to collect our average of $1,000 monthly benefits for 68 years and one (1) month to equal Senator Bill Bradley's benefits! Social Security could be very good if only one small change were made. That change would be to jerk the Golden Fleece Retirement Plan from under the Senators and Congressmen. Put them into the Social Security plan with the rest of us! Then sit backand watch how fast they would fix it. If enough people receive this, maybe a seed of awareness will be planted and maybe good changes will evolve. J.E.Krafka AntiFossil Mike Krafka Minnesota USA ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] sometimes anger can motivate
Hello Doug, Yes, I have learned an embarrassing lesson from this. Not so much from my lack of having seen this particular forward before, IMHO that's as much a matter of chance as it is anything else. No the real shortcoming here is that I forwarded something I knew nothing about. I didn't check it out first, and I know better than to do that. Thank you though Doug, and you're right, the body of that post is apparently crapola. AntiFossil Mike Krafka Minnesota USA - Original Message - From: Doug Younker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 7:32 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] sometimes anger can motivate Mike; the text below is new to me however, everything between it and the J.E.Krafka signature regularly makes a round in email forwards, Sorry to say. Visit http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/pensions.asp Doug - Original Message - From: Anti-Fossil [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 1:42 PM Subject: [Biofuel] sometimes anger can motivate : I just received this from my father, with no references, of course, to : verify any of the numbers contained within. However, I do know him to be an : honest, and trustworthy man. So, while I cannot vouge for the validity of : the specifics of this post, I can, without hesitation, say that if my father : wrote it, and sent it to me, I'll stand by it. : The following goes to the core of what is wrong with the alleged : leadership of this country. It is no wonder the rest of the world has lost : all respect for our country (speaking to the American list members). The : hypocrisy revealed here makes me angry. It is absolute insanity for elected : officials to be pampered for life like this when the rest of the country, : and indeed the world, are facing issues like hunger, unsafe drinking water, : war, etc., etc.??? ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] sometimes anger can motivate
Mike; glad to hear you read my response mostly in the light I sent it in, to inform not embarrass. I really hesitated about clicking on send. This is way I don't care for the prohibition of emailing other list members off-list, there are times it is warranted. Doug ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] sometimes anger can motivate
Hi Mike, It is no wonder the rest of the world has lost all respect for our country (speaking to the American list members). I agree: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2u=/050207/ids_photos_en/r 2706473732.jpg LOL! I think they don't like him a lot. A caricaturist with a future. I only wish that the photo was taken in the States to demonstrate our own discontent as we begin to really pay for the war with the upcoming fiscal budget. Mike Yes... but what do you make of this (croos-post)? Are a lot of Americans thinking (?) this way, d'you reckon? These [Iraqi oil] profits rightfully belong to the American People. All the tax money that has been spend on this war should be paid back to the American taxpayers by the new Iraqi government through the sale of oil. :-( That's go down real well in Falluja and Sadr City, eh? Win over lots of hearts and minds I'm sure. Regards Keith From: Harry Pritikin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 07:53:27 -1000 Subject: [Bioenergy] IRAQI OIL Aloha All, What's happening to the Iraqi oil? How is pumping it? Who is selling it and reaping the profits and who are they selling it to?? I have a friend who has an acquaintance through his sailing club. This guy works for a tanker company based in India. He said that his company could only get contracts to ship oil out of Iraq if they agreed to take to China! Ever since the U.S. ousted Sadam you never hear about oil. Before they ousted Sadam you always heard about the fears that the wells and pipelines would be sabotaged. Now you hear nothing. During the U.S. occupation, if there was no government entity, who is getting the money for the oil being pumped? How much is being pumped? Why hasn't there been any news with this information? Is it because president Bush is telling the people of the U.S. there is an oil shortage and we must drill in the arctic to reduce our consumption of foreign oil while all the while U.S. oil companies are pumping Iraqi oil and selling it to China and pocketing the profits?? These profits rightfully belong to the American People. All the tax money that has been spend on this war should be paid back to the American taxpayers by the new Iraqi government through the sale of oil. But as yet, no one that I know of even knows who is profiting from the sale of this oil and who it's being sold to. Anyone out there have any facts?? Mahalo, Harry Harry M. Pritikin (RA) Buyer's Agent Kona-Kohala Real Estate UPdate Kailua-Kona, Hawaii Cell: 808-989-3491 ___ Bioenergy mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/bioenergy Anti-Fossil [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just received this from my father, with no references, of course, to verify any of the numbers contained within. However, I do know him to be an honest, and trustworthy man. So, while I cannot vouge for the validity of the specifics of this post, I can, without hesitation, say that if my father wrote it, and sent it to me, I'll stand by it. The following goes to the core of what is wrong with the alleged leadership of this country. It is no wonder the rest of the world has lost all respect for our country (speaking to the American list members). The hypocrisy revealed here makes me angry. It is absolute insanity for elected officials to be pampered for life like this when the rest of the country, and indeed the world, are facing issues like hunger, unsafe drinking water, war, etc., etc.??? That's enough from me, SOCIAL SECURITY: (This is worth reading. It is short and to the point.) Perhaps we are asking the wrong questions during election years. Our Senators and Congress women do not pay into Social Security and, of course, they do not collect from it. You see, Social Security benefits were not suitable for persons of their rare elevation in society. They felt they should have a special plan for themselves. So, many years ago they voted in their own benefit plan. In more recent years, no congressperson has felt the need to change it. After all, it is a great plan. For all practical purposes their plan works like this: When they retire, they continue to draw the same pay until they die. Except it may increase from time to time for cost of living adjustments.. For example, Senator Byrd and Congressman White and their wives may expect to draw $7,800,000.00 (that's Seven Million, Eight-Hundred Thousand Dollars), with their wives drawing $275,000.00 during the last years of their lives. This is calculated on an average life span for each of those two Dignitaries. Younger Dignitaries who retire at an early age, will receive much more during the rest of their lives. Their cost for this excellent plan is $0.00. NADAZILCH This little perk they voted for themselves is free to them. You and I pick up the tab for this plan. The funds for this fine retirement plan
RE: [Biofuel] sometimes anger can motivate
Chris, I would really like to know more about the author of this report. Can you point me in the right direction? Mike Chris Lloyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are many wars in our history that we provoked (i.e.Vietnam) and other acts of war that we let slip into obscurity depending on our agenda (i.e. USS Liberty). I'm not even including the numerous proxy wars fought for us all over the world. Some bright spark of a journalist used the freedom of information act last year and found the US government had directly engaged in or actively paid for 72 incursions/insurrections on other sovereign countries since 1945. 73 and 74 coming up shortly. Chris. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.6 - Release Date: 07/02/2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] sometimes anger can motivate
http://members.aol.com/bblum6/American_holocaust.htm Michael Redler wrote: Chris, I would really like to know more about the author of this report. Can you point me in the right direction? Mike Chris Lloyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are many wars in our history that we provoked (i.e.Vietnam) and other acts of war that we let slip into obscurity depending on our agenda (i.e. USS Liberty). I'm not even including the numerous proxy wars fought for us all over the world. Some bright spark of a journalist used the freedom of information act last year and found the US government had directly engaged in or actively paid for 72 incursions/insurrections on other sovereign countries since 1945. 73 and 74 coming up shortly. Chris. -- -- Bob Allen,http://ozarker.org/bob -- --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] sometimes anger can motivate
- Original Message - From: Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 8:22 AM Subject: RE: [Biofuel] sometimes anger can motivate Chris, I would really like to know more about the author of this report. Look up the word history for the author. Can you point me in the right direction? You could have just Googled it, I did. A partial invasions list http://www.skepticfiles.org/socialis/invasion.htm The USS Liberty - a site maintained by survivors of the Israeli intentional attack. http://ussliberty.org/ Luc Mike Chris Lloyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are many wars in our history that we provoked (i.e.Vietnam) and other acts of war that we let slip into obscurity depending on our agenda (i.e. USS Liberty). I'm not even including the numerous proxy wars fought for us all over the world. Some bright spark of a journalist used the freedom of information act last year and found the US government had directly engaged in or actively paid for 72 incursions/insurrections on other sovereign countries since 1945. 73 and 74 coming up shortly. Chris. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] sometimes anger can motivate
Michael Redler wrote: Hi Kirk, ...well put! I have also noticed stark contrast at passport control. Clean, unambiguous and polite in most other countries while our points of entry in the US feature poor communications and shouts in American slang (experienced in JFK and Newark) as if being herded through like livestock. By the way, this was my girlfriend's conversation with a US border official while coming back from Canada: Q: Why were you in Canada? A: We were at a party. Q: What kind of party? A: A German music and dance fest. Q: Are you (me and my girlfriend) married? A: No. Q: How do you know each other? A: We are dating. One of the last questions was (finally) do you have anything to declare? Somebody tell me how this is critical to national security -- especially since most of these are questions to which any answer can be given without any references to check its accuracy. It's intrusive and unnecessary. not really critical to national security to know the answers but they are trying to make you slip up if you have a false story. they will ask you the same questions with different enough wording that if you aren't really on point and your story isn't true they are likely to catch it. for example if they asked are you married and you said no and then they asked how do you know each other and you said this is my wife. they they lock you up and watch what you poo for a few days (ick, glad that isn't my job) and search all your stuff. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] sometimes anger can motivate
Hi Kieth, Yes... but what do you make of this (croos-post)? Are a lot of Americans thinking (?) this way, d'you reckon? ** strictly my opinion ** If one dedicates resources and commits to the building of a democracy, credibility can only preserved when the decisions of that newly built democracy are honored and there is no expectations of reciprocity (rewards). It should be an effort driven strictly by one's desire to end another's suffering. I'm not sure that we are prepared for that. ** strictly my opinion ** About history: I think we need to remember a couple of quotes: History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon. -Napoleon History is written by the victors. -Winston Churchill When we, as Americans think about the number of wars our country has engaged in and how many of them were to defend kings, czars, and dictators, We should wonder how sincere our government is in defending freedom and democracy. When a war is fought in Iraq to save lives at exactly the same time that genocide is occurring in Sudan, costing the lives of hundreds of thousands, I wonder even more. When our government invades a country that has been called the cradle of civilization, and assigns more resources to protect its oil fields rather that its antiquities, I think of the burning and looting of Babylon. I'm sure that those ancient invaders also had the best intentions in mind. I say this while fully aware of the importance of oil to the recovery of Iraq. I just wonder about the protectors and their motives. It is my opinion that many Americans don't know their history and that we are destined to repeat it. Go on the street of any American city and ask someone how many wars we've been in during the last century. I bet the answer will be about four. Ask themif our government has ever backed a dictator. You might get laughed at despite our president's close relationship with the Saudi royal family -- one of the biggest human rights abusers according to Amnesty International. We don't know our own history. I'm unsure if it is because of those who write our history or because of a culture which is simply uninterested. Perhaps if we fought (and lost) a war on our own soil, we might feel a higher priority in knowing what we've done and how much suffering it has caused. Mike Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Mike and Mike Hi Mike, It is no wonder the rest of the world has lost all respect for our country (speaking to the American list members). I agree: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2u=/050207/ids_photos_en/r 2706473732.jpg LOL! I think they don't like him a lot. A caricaturist with a future. I only wish that the photo was taken in the States to demonstrate our own discontent as we begin to really pay for the war with the upcoming fiscal budget. Mike Yes... but what do you make of this (croos-post)? Are a lot of Americans thinking (?) this way, d'you reckon? These [Iraqi oil] profits rightfully belong to the American People. All the tax money that has been spend on this war should be paid back to the American taxpayers by the new Iraqi government through the sale of oil. :-( That's go down real well in Falluja and Sadr City, eh? Win over lots of hearts and minds I'm sure. Regards Keith From: Harry Pritikin To: Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 07:53:27 -1000 Subject: [Bioenergy] IRAQI OIL Aloha All, What's happening to the Iraqi oil? How is pumping it? Who is selling it and reaping the profits and who are they selling it to?? I have a friend who has an acquaintance through his sailing club. This guy works for a tanker company based in India. He said that his company could only get contracts to ship oil out of Iraq if they agreed to take to China! Ever since the U.S. ousted Sadam you never hear about oil. Before they ousted Sadam you always heard about the fears that the wells and pipelines would be sabotaged. Now you hear nothing. During the U.S. occupation, if there was no government entity, who is getting the money for the oil being pumped? How much is being pumped? Why hasn't there been any news with this information? Is it because president Bush is telling the people of the U.S. there is an oil shortage and we must drill in the arctic to reduce our consumption of foreign oil while all the while U.S. oil companies are pumping Iraqi oil and selling it to China and pocketing the profits?? These profits rightfully belong to the American People. All the tax money that has been spend on this war should be paid back to the American taxpayers by the new Iraqi government through the sale of oil. But as yet, no one that I know of even knows who is profiting from the sale of this oil and who it's being sold to. Anyone out there have any facts?? Mahalo, Harry Harry M. Pritikin (RA) Buyer's Agent Kona-Kohala Real Estate UPdate Kailua-Kona, Hawaii Cell: 808-989-3491
Re: [Biofuel] sometimes anger can motivate
Thanks again Doug, it was not hard to tell your intent, and it was much appreciated. AntiFossil Mike Krafka Minnesota USA - Original Message - From: Doug Younker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 11:42 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] sometimes anger can motivate Mike; glad to hear you read my response mostly in the light I sent it in, to inform not embarrass. I really hesitated about clicking on send. This is way I don't care for the prohibition of emailing other list members off-list, there are times it is warranted. Doug ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] sometimes anger can motivate
Hi Mike, It is no wonder the rest of the world has lost all respect for our country (speaking to the American list members). I agree: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2u=/050207/ids_photos_en/r2706473732.jpg I only wish that the photo was taken in the States to demonstrate our own discontent as we begin to really pay for the war with the upcoming fiscal budget. Mike Anti-Fossil [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just received this from my father, with no references, of course, to verify any of the numbers contained within. However, I do know him to be an honest, and trustworthy man. So, while I cannot vouge for the validity of the specifics of this post, I can, without hesitation, say that if my father wrote it, and sent it to me, I'll stand by it. The following goes to the core of what is wrong with the alleged leadership of this country. It is no wonder the rest of the world has lost all respect for our country (speaking to the American list members). The hypocrisy revealed here makes me angry. It is absolute insanity for elected officials to be pampered for life like this when the rest of the country, and indeed the world, are facing issues like hunger, unsafe drinking water, war, etc., etc.??? That's enough from me, SOCIAL SECURITY: (This is worth reading. It is short and to the point.) Perhaps we are asking the wrong questions during election years. Our Senators and Congress women do not pay into Social Security and, of course, they do not collect from it. You see, Social Security benefits were not suitable for persons of their rare elevation in society. They felt they should have a special plan for themselves. So, many years ago they voted in their own benefit plan. In more recent years, no congressperson has felt the need to change it. After all, it is a great plan. For all practical purposes their plan works like this: When they retire, they continue to draw the same pay until they die. Except it may increase from time to time for cost of living adjustments.. For example, Senator Byrd and Congressman White and their wives may expect to draw $7,800,000.00 (that's Seven Million, Eight-Hundred Thousand Dollars), with their wives drawing $275,000.00 during the last years of their lives. This is calculated on an average life span for each of those two Dignitaries. Younger Dignitaries who retire at an early age, will receive much more during the rest of their lives. Their cost for this excellent plan is $0.00. NADAZILCH This little perk they voted for themselves is free to them. You and I pick up the tab for this plan. The funds for this fine retirement plan come directly from the General Funds; OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK! From our own Social Security Plan, which you and I pay (or have paid) into, - every payday until we retire (which amount is matched by our employer) - we can expect to get an average of $1,000 per month after retirement. Or, in other words, we would have to collect our average of $1,000 monthly benefits for 68 years and one (1) month to equal Senator Bill Bradley's benefits! Social Security could be very good if only one small change were made. That change would be to jerk the Golden Fleece Retirement Plan from under the Senators and Congressmen. Put them into the Social Security plan with the rest of us! Then sit backand watch how fast they would fix it. If enough people receive this, maybe a seed of awareness will be planted and maybe good changes will evolve. J.E.Krafka AntiFossil Mike Krafka Minnesota USA ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] sometimes anger can motivate
Americans have contributed to a poor image for some time. Ignorant and arrogant. A sense of self righteousness that surpasses understanding. More than once I had to produce my passport to convince people I was a US citizen. You are too polite to be an American was what I heard. I saw my fellow Americans doing things they wouldn't dream of at home. Rather like adolescents going to a party and wrecking furniture and throwing up on the rug as afterall it is a party, isn't it? But then, arrogance is taught in school, so why should we expect otherwise. My daughter caught flak as a senior because she wouldn't cut into the front of the line as seniors were supposed to be able. Such behavior encouraged by so called educators. Teaching rudeness and false superiority. Small wonder such behavior is so commonplace it is seen as American. Kirk Kirk Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Mike, It is no wonder the rest of the world has lost all respect for our country (speaking to the American list members). I agree: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2u=/050207/ids_photos_en/r2706473732.jpg I only wish that the photo was taken in the States to demonstrate our own discontent as we begin to really pay for the war with the upcoming fiscal budget. Mike Anti-Fossil wrote: I just received this from my father, with no references, of course, to verify any of the numbers contained within. However, I do know him to be an honest, and trustworthy man. So, while I cannot vouge for the validity of the specifics of this post, I can, without hesitation, say that if my father wrote it, and sent it to me, I'll stand by it. The following goes to the core of what is wrong with the alleged leadership of this country. It is no wonder the rest of the world has lost all respect for our country (speaking to the American list members). The hypocrisy revealed here makes me angry. It is absolute insanity for elected officials to be pampered for life like this when the rest of the country, and indeed the world, are facing issues like hunger, unsafe drinking water, war, etc., etc.??? That's enough from me, SOCIAL SECURITY: (This is worth reading. It is short and to the point.) Perhaps we are asking the wrong questions during election years. Our Senators and Congress women do not pay into Social Security and, of course, they do not collect from it. You see, Social Security benefits were not suitable for persons of their rare elevation in society. They felt they should have a special plan for themselves. So, many years ago they voted in their own benefit plan. In more recent years, no congressperson has felt the need to change it. After all, it is a great plan. For all practical purposes their plan works like this: When they retire, they continue to draw the same pay until they die. Except it may increase from time to time for cost of living adjustments.. For example, Senator Byrd and Congressman White and their wives may expect to draw $7,800,000.00 (that's Seven Million, Eight-Hundred Thousand Dollars), with their wives drawing $275,000.00 during the last years of their lives. This is calculated on an average life span for each of those two Dignitaries. Younger Dignitaries who retire at an early age, will receive much more during the rest of their lives. Their cost for this excellent plan is $0.00. NADAZILCH This little perk they voted for themselves is free to them. You and I pick up the tab for this plan. The funds for this fine retirement plan come directly from the General Funds; OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK! From our own Social Security Plan, which you and I pay (or have paid) into, - every payday until we retire (which amount is matched by our employer) - we can expect to get an average of $1,000 per month after retirement. Or, in other words, we would have to collect our average of $1,000 monthly benefits for 68 years and one (1) month to equal Senator Bill Bradley's benefits! Social Security could be very good if only one small change were made. That change would be to jerk the Golden Fleece Retirement Plan from under the Senators and Congressmen. Put them into the Social Security plan with the rest of us! Then sit backand watch how fast they would fix it. If enough people receive this, maybe a seed of awareness will be planted and maybe good changes will evolve. J.E.Krafka AntiFossil Mike Krafka Minnesota USA ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable):
Re: [Biofuel] sometimes anger can motivate
Hi Kirk, ...well put! I have also noticed stark contrast at passport control. Clean, unambiguous and polite in most other countries while our points of entry in the US feature poor communications and shouts in American slang (experienced in JFK and Newark) as if being herded through like livestock. By the way, this was my girlfriend's conversation with a US border official while coming back from Canada: Q: Why were you in Canada? A: We were at a party. Q: What kind of party? A: A German music and dance fest. Q: Are you (me and my girlfriend) married? A: No. Q: How do you know each other? A: We are dating. One of the last questions was (finally) do you have anything to declare? Somebody tell me how this is critical to national security -- especially since most of these are questions to which any answer can be given without any references to check its accuracy. It's intrusive and unnecessary. As far as being taught arrogance as Americans, you are right on. It doesn't help when Condi Rice goes on National television and says He (GWB) is the leader of the world (I am quoting correctly. She didn't even say free world). There were only a few occasions when felt so embarrassed. This includes the time Bush addressed the nation during the US invasion in Iraq, referring to it as a crusade and ending with a quote from the bible. Oh yes. There was the time my local television news did a story on terrorism and used a picture of Mecca as the graphic in the background. Kieth and everyone: I know that we go on a tangent from time to time. But, this really hits home for me. I just want to say that I can totally relate to what is expressed in this posting by Kirk. All in the name of freedom: There are many wars in our history that we provoked (i.e.Vietnam) and other acts of war that we let slip into obscurity depending on our agenda (i.e. USS Liberty). I'm not even including the numerous proxy wars fought for us all over the world. There are groups of words that are often confused by many in the US: Patriotism/Nationalism/Fascism Freedom/Democracy(imposed) Anti-American/Self-Determination Thanks! Mike Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Americans have contributed to a poor image for some time. Ignorant and arrogant. A sense of self righteousness that surpasses understanding. More than once I had to produce my passport to convince people I was a US citizen. You are too polite to be an American was what I heard. I saw my fellow Americans doing things they wouldn't dream of at home. Rather like adolescents going to a party and wrecking furniture and throwing up on the rug as afterall it is a party, isn't it? But then, arrogance is taught in school, so why should we expect otherwise. My daughter caught flak as a senior because she wouldn't cut into the front of the line as seniors were supposed to be able. Such behavior encouraged by so called educators. Teaching rudeness and false superiority. Small wonder such behavior is so commonplace it is seen as American. Kirk Kirk Michael Redler wrote: Hi Mike, It is no wonder the rest of the world has lost all respect for our country (speaking to the American list members). I agree: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2u=/050207/ids_photos_en/r2706473732.jpg I only wish that the photo was taken in the States to demonstrate our own discontent as we begin to really pay for the war with the upcoming fiscal budget. Mike Anti-Fossil wrote: I just received this from my father, with no references, of course, to verify any of the numbers contained within. However, I do know him to be an honest, and trustworthy man. So, while I cannot vouge for the validity of the specifics of this post, I can, without hesitation, say that if my father wrote it, and sent it to me, I'll stand by it. The following goes to the core of what is wrong with the alleged leadership of this country. It is no wonder the rest of the world has lost all respect for our country (speaking to the American list members). The hypocrisy revealed here makes me angry. It is absolute insanity for elected officials to be pampered for life like this when the rest of the country, and indeed the world, are facing issues like hunger, unsafe drinking water, war, etc., etc.??? That's enough from me, SOCIAL SECURITY: (This is worth reading. It is short and to the point.) Perhaps we are asking the wrong questions during election years. Our Senators and Congress women do not pay into Social Security and, of course, they do not collect from it. You see, Social Security benefits were not suitable for persons of their rare elevation in society. They felt they should have a special plan for themselves. So, many years ago they voted in their own benefit plan. In more recent years, no congressperson has felt the need to change it. After all, it is a great plan. For all practical purposes their plan works like this: When they retire, they continue to draw the
Re: [Biofuel] sometimes anger can motivate
Kirk, This is not a nationality issue, almost all nationalities have a tendency to misbehave on vacations. This especially if they go to a country that they can look at as less developed. I see this every summer season and when the tourist drink too much, it many times I had to be ashamed of my fellow Swedes, English, Germans, Dutch, Americans, etc. Hakan At 04:55 PM 2/8/2005, you wrote: Americans have contributed to a poor image for some time. Ignorant and arrogant. A sense of self righteousness that surpasses understanding. More than once I had to produce my passport to convince people I was a US citizen. You are too polite to be an American was what I heard. I saw my fellow Americans doing things they wouldn't dream of at home. Rather like adolescents going to a party and wrecking furniture and throwing up on the rug as afterall it is a party, isn't it? But then, arrogance is taught in school, so why should we expect otherwise. My daughter caught flak as a senior because she wouldn't cut into the front of the line as seniors were supposed to be able. Such behavior encouraged by so called educators. Teaching rudeness and false superiority. Small wonder such behavior is so commonplace it is seen as American. Kirk Kirk Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Mike, It is no wonder the rest of the world has lost all respect for our country (speaking to the American list members). I agree: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2u=/050207/ids_photos_en/r2706473732.jpg I only wish that the photo was taken in the States to demonstrate our own discontent as we begin to really pay for the war with the upcoming fiscal budget. Mike Anti-Fossil wrote: I just received this from my father, with no references, of course, to verify any of the numbers contained within. However, I do know him to be an honest, and trustworthy man. So, while I cannot vouge for the validity of the specifics of this post, I can, without hesitation, say that if my father wrote it, and sent it to me, I'll stand by it. The following goes to the core of what is wrong with the alleged leadership of this country. It is no wonder the rest of the world has lost all respect for our country (speaking to the American list members). The hypocrisy revealed here makes me angry. It is absolute insanity for elected officials to be pampered for life like this when the rest of the country, and indeed the world, are facing issues like hunger, unsafe drinking water, war, etc., etc.??? That's enough from me, SOCIAL SECURITY: (This is worth reading. It is short and to the point.) Perhaps we are asking the wrong questions during election years. Our Senators and Congress women do not pay into Social Security and, of course, they do not collect from it. You see, Social Security benefits were not suitable for persons of their rare elevation in society. They felt they should have a special plan for themselves. So, many years ago they voted in their own benefit plan. In more recent years, no congressperson has felt the need to change it. After all, it is a great plan. For all practical purposes their plan works like this: When they retire, they continue to draw the same pay until they die. Except it may increase from time to time for cost of living adjustments.. For example, Senator Byrd and Congressman White and their wives may expect to draw $7,800,000.00 (that's Seven Million, Eight-Hundred Thousand Dollars), with their wives drawing $275,000.00 during the last years of their lives. This is calculated on an average life span for each of those two Dignitaries. Younger Dignitaries who retire at an early age, will receive much more during the rest of their lives. Their cost for this excellent plan is $0.00. NADAZILCH This little perk they voted for themselves is free to them. You and I pick up the tab for this plan. The funds for this fine retirement plan come directly from the General Funds; OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK! From our own Social Security Plan, which you and I pay (or have paid) into, - every payday until we retire (which amount is matched by our employer) - we can expect to get an average of $1,000 per month after retirement. Or, in other words, we would have to collect our average of $1,000 monthly benefits for 68 years and one (1) month to equal Senator Bill Bradley's benefits! Social Security could be very good if only one small change were made. That change would be to jerk the Golden Fleece Retirement Plan from under the Senators and Congressmen. Put them into the Social Security plan with the rest of us! Then sit backand watch how fast they would fix it. If enough people receive this, maybe a seed of awareness will be planted and maybe good changes will evolve. J.E.Krafka AntiFossil Mike Krafka Minnesota USA ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
