Re: [biofuel] A biofuels question (sort of)
we use wood heat in the winter, and solar heat in the summer to heat water. see http://ww2.green-trust.org:8383/2003/fireandwater.htm Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter & Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: "bratt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 8:04 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] A biofuels question (sort of) > I remember a grey water system article in Mother Earth News where the heat was recovered from waste water , and used to flush the toilets. There was a system where heat was stored in barrels of water in the basement as well. > > Perhaps someone has an index from Mother Earth and can find the articles. > > Heating by solar is quite common, where sunshine is available. Where I live we are very short of daylight hours in winter when we need the heat. Also there is the freezing problem when circulating water outdoors in winter. Some manufacturers claim to have all climate systems that work. I read about one such system at http://www.solarroofs.com/ > > They have an automatic shut down built in so when freezing happens, it drains the outdoor system. > > To have a system work here in the bitter cold north, you would have to run antifreeze and a heat exchanger to get any appreciable run time in winter. > > EdB > - Original Message - > From: Thor Skov > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 5:23 PM > Subject: [biofuel] A biofuels question (sort of) > > > > OK, I lied, this isn't about biofuels per se, but > rather about home energy generation. > > I am rebuilding my house in Seattle, and want to go > with passive solar heating supplemented with an > efficient wood fireplace insert (see, biofuels!). > > My question is about solar water heating. I'd like to > use solar panels and recaptured waste water heat to > preheat water, store it in tanks, and then pipe it to > electric on-demand heaters at the point of usage. > Does anyone know of a design for such a system? I > really know nothing about such a system, but am > frantically trying to educate myself with whatever > materials I can find. Any leads or suggestions would > be greatly appreciated. > > Thor Skov > > __ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! > http://platinum.yahoo.com > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] A biofuels question (sort of)
Thor, There is a Centre for Alternative Technology in Machynlleth, Wales, UK, that has done loads of work in the past. Do a search on them for designs. I have not been there for about 15 years but they are still active I understand. Ken - Original Message - From: "Thor Skov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 11:23 PM Subject: [biofuel] A biofuels question (sort of) > > OK, I lied, this isn't about biofuels per se, but > rather about home energy generation. > > I am rebuilding my house in Seattle, and want to go > with passive solar heating supplemented with an > efficient wood fireplace insert (see, biofuels!). > > My question is about solar water heating. I'd like to > use solar panels and recaptured waste water heat to > preheat water, store it in tanks, and then pipe it to > electric on-demand heaters at the point of usage. > Does anyone know of a design for such a system? I > really know nothing about such a system, but am > frantically trying to educate myself with whatever > materials I can find. Any leads or suggestions would > be greatly appreciated. > > Thor Skov > > __ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! > http://platinum.yahoo.com > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] A biofuels question (sort of)
epa approved wood stoves contribute very little to smog, etc. gasifying wood stoves even less. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter & Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: "paul van den bergen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 9:50 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] A biofuels question (sort of) > On Mon, 24 Mar 2003 10:23 am, Thor Skov wrote: > > OK, I lied, this isn't about biofuels per se, but > > rather about home energy generation. > > > > I am rebuilding my house in Seattle, and want to go > > with passive solar heating supplemented with an > > efficient wood fireplace insert (see, biofuels!). > > my only comment on this is be aware of wood stove emmissions. In cities they > seriously contribute to asthma causing smog. they are banned in my local > municipality in all new homes... people still install them though... *sigh* > > > My question is about solar water heating. I'd like to > > use solar panels and recaptured waste water heat to > > preheat water, store it in tanks, and then pipe it to > > electric on-demand heaters at the point of usage. > > Does anyone know of a design for such a system? > > No hints I am afraid, but one comment I would make is that Si based solar > panels decrease dramatically in efficiency when heated. so solar hot water > and solar power generation are contra-indicated. infact it is worth your > while to water cool you solar panels if you have access to cheap (rain) > water... > > there is a new type of solar panel - DSC - that utilises a different type of > electricity generation - nano-particle TiO2 and a photosensitive dye - that > increases efficiency with temperature... I was thinking of setting up a > parabolic trough lined with alfoil, a strip of these panels and backing them > with hot water pipes but I have too many other projects going at the > moment, so it will have to wait... > > > > > -- > Dr Paul van den Bergen > Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures > caia.swin.edu.au > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > IM:bulwynkl2002 > It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] A biofuels question (sort of)
On Mon, 24 Mar 2003 10:23 am, Thor Skov wrote: > OK, I lied, this isn't about biofuels per se, but > rather about home energy generation. > > I am rebuilding my house in Seattle, and want to go > with passive solar heating supplemented with an > efficient wood fireplace insert (see, biofuels!). my only comment on this is be aware of wood stove emmissions. In cities they seriously contribute to asthma causing smog. they are banned in my local municipality in all new homes... people still install them though... *sigh* > My question is about solar water heating. I'd like to > use solar panels and recaptured waste water heat to > preheat water, store it in tanks, and then pipe it to > electric on-demand heaters at the point of usage. > Does anyone know of a design for such a system? No hints I am afraid, but one comment I would make is that Si based solar panels decrease dramatically in efficiency when heated. so solar hot water and solar power generation are contra-indicated. infact it is worth your while to water cool you solar panels if you have access to cheap (rain) water... there is a new type of solar panel - DSC - that utilises a different type of electricity generation - nano-particle TiO2 and a photosensitive dye - that increases efficiency with temperature... I was thinking of setting up a parabolic trough lined with alfoil, a strip of these panels and backing them with hot water pipes but I have too many other projects going at the moment, so it will have to wait... -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
"friendly" housing was Re: [biofuel] A biofuels question (sort of)
A friend of mine was/is building a recycled house. He used wooden beams from a factory being torn down. The structure is either a hexagon or a decagon shape, I can't remember exactly. It has a center concrete column, this is where the interesting part is. There is a heavy wood stove at the bottom inside the concrete column, with exhaust ducts looping through the inside of the column. The column was filled with a couple tons of sand. His plan was to be able to fire the stove at a high heat once or twice per day, and get all the energy necessary to heat the concrete column and it's several tons of thermal mass up to a decent temperature. I've been at college so I don't know how well it has worked this winter. I'll get back to you on that. Oh, the outside walls were built using cord wood and papercrete. The roof is about 18 inches thick, consisting [top to bottom] wood [recycled], foam insulation?, hot-rolled roofing, plastic sheeting, gravel, soil, grass. I helped put the soil on the roof - a power-lifting ladder and 5 gallon buckets, the rest of the work being manual labor [I'm tall, my back hurt bad the next day!]. From a distance the building looks very nice. It appears to be of stone construction. He chose "the least arable land I could buy". All-in-all quite an interesting house. It's not connected to the electrical grid either. Solar, wind power only. -- --- Martin Klingensmith http://nnytech.net/ http://infoarchive.net/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] A biofuels question (sort of)
I remember a grey water system article in Mother Earth News where the heat was recovered from waste water , and used to flush the toilets. There was a system where heat was stored in barrels of water in the basement as well. Perhaps someone has an index from Mother Earth and can find the articles. Heating by solar is quite common, where sunshine is available. Where I live we are very short of daylight hours in winter when we need the heat. Also there is the freezing problem when circulating water outdoors in winter. Some manufacturers claim to have all climate systems that work. I read about one such system at http://www.solarroofs.com/ They have an automatic shut down built in so when freezing happens, it drains the outdoor system. To have a system work here in the bitter cold north, you would have to run antifreeze and a heat exchanger to get any appreciable run time in winter. EdB - Original Message - From: Thor Skov To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 5:23 PM Subject: [biofuel] A biofuels question (sort of) OK, I lied, this isn't about biofuels per se, but rather about home energy generation. I am rebuilding my house in Seattle, and want to go with passive solar heating supplemented with an efficient wood fireplace insert (see, biofuels!). My question is about solar water heating. I'd like to use solar panels and recaptured waste water heat to preheat water, store it in tanks, and then pipe it to electric on-demand heaters at the point of usage. Does anyone know of a design for such a system? I really know nothing about such a system, but am frantically trying to educate myself with whatever materials I can find. Any leads or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thor Skov __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] A biofuels question (sort of)
Thor, I am doing the part of solar heating and heat on demand in my house and it works fine. It is however somewhat different to what you are describing, depending on what you mean with point of demand. You must have separate feed of hot and cold water to the point of demand. I have a tank of 300 liter, heated by solar panels. It then goes through a direct heat exchanger. If the solar heated water is over 60 degree Celsius, it goes directly to the hot water tap, if it is under, the direct heater make up for the difference. I have plans of getting additions from a wood cassette and running pipes through the waste chamber deposit tanks. I need however a much larger hot water tank for this and will add 300 to 500 more. This because of the very high energy output from the wood cassette. It is some special thoughts around this and it will need thermic valves and separate hot water tanks. For the moment it is better to only have the solar. Hakan At 03:23 PM 3/23/2003 -0800, you wrote: >OK, I lied, this isn't about biofuels per se, but >rather about home energy generation. > >I am rebuilding my house in Seattle, and want to go >with passive solar heating supplemented with an >efficient wood fireplace insert (see, biofuels!). > >My question is about solar water heating. I'd like to >use solar panels and recaptured waste water heat to >preheat water, store it in tanks, and then pipe it to >electric on-demand heaters at the point of usage. >Does anyone know of a design for such a system? I >really know nothing about such a system, but am >frantically trying to educate myself with whatever >materials I can find. Any leads or suggestions would >be greatly appreciated. > >Thor Skov Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] A biofuels question (sort of)
25 years ago I knew a phD at the lab who just ran 3/4 pvc back and forth in his attic instead of a fan coil unit. He placed the unions outside so if a joint failed it would not flood. He was getting 140 to 160 degree F water in the summer. http://www.solarattic.com/dhw.htm -Original Message- From: robert luis rabello [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 5:35 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] A biofuels question (sort of) Thor Skov wrote: > My question is about solar water heating. I'd like to > use solar panels and recaptured waste water heat to > preheat water, store it in tanks, and then pipe it to > electric on-demand heaters at the point of usage. > Does anyone know of a design for such a system? I > really know nothing about such a system, but am > frantically trying to educate myself with whatever > materials I can find. Any leads or suggestions would > be greatly appreciated. > > Thor Skov > I remember reading a book about energy efficiency quite a while ago. Although the title eludes me now, one of the things I DO remember is the idea of plumbing bath tub / shower, dishwasher and kitchen sink drains into a basement level holding tank. This could be as simple as an insulated plastic drum. The "cold water" line that leads into the domestic hot water tank (or tankless heater) would run through a coil at the top of this drum to pick up "waste" heat that would otherwise just drain into the sewer mains. As "new" hot water drains from the house into the top of the holding tank, "old" and cooler water would be drained from the bottom. If you're serious about solar, you might try some of these links. I wanted to explore these options in my own house, but met resistance from the builder and the bank: http://www.acrosolarlasers.com/addition.html http://www.solarattic.com/dhw.htm http://www.solarthermal.com/ A builder friend of mine once said: "Anything is possible, as long as there's money. . ." Here are some wood friendly links for you to consider: http://alternateheatingsystems.com/wg.htm(These people are having a sale right now. Their smallest gasification boiler is selling for about $6 500 U.S.) http://www.hydro-coil.com/HYDRO~1/Price_sheetx.html Good luck! I used to burn a lot of wood, and I miss having a fire in the house! robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.463 / Virus Database: 262 - Release Date: 3/17/2003 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] A biofuels question (sort of)
Thor Skov wrote: > My question is about solar water heating. I'd like to > use solar panels and recaptured waste water heat to > preheat water, store it in tanks, and then pipe it to > electric on-demand heaters at the point of usage. > Does anyone know of a design for such a system? I > really know nothing about such a system, but am > frantically trying to educate myself with whatever > materials I can find. Any leads or suggestions would > be greatly appreciated. > > Thor Skov > I remember reading a book about energy efficiency quite a while ago. Although the title eludes me now, one of the things I DO remember is the idea of plumbing bath tub / shower, dishwasher and kitchen sink drains into a basement level holding tank. This could be as simple as an insulated plastic drum. The "cold water" line that leads into the domestic hot water tank (or tankless heater) would run through a coil at the top of this drum to pick up "waste" heat that would otherwise just drain into the sewer mains. As "new" hot water drains from the house into the top of the holding tank, "old" and cooler water would be drained from the bottom. If you're serious about solar, you might try some of these links. I wanted to explore these options in my own house, but met resistance from the builder and the bank: http://www.acrosolarlasers.com/addition.html http://www.solarattic.com/dhw.htm http://www.solarthermal.com/ A builder friend of mine once said: "Anything is possible, as long as there's money. . ." Here are some wood friendly links for you to consider: http://alternateheatingsystems.com/wg.htm(These people are having a sale right now. Their smallest gasification boiler is selling for about $6 500 U.S.) http://www.hydro-coil.com/HYDRO~1/Price_sheetx.html Good luck! I used to burn a lot of wood, and I miss having a fire in the house! robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
