Re: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel
> Just what are you doing with that 6% -8% loss? Would you flush 6-8% of > petroleum diesel "down the drain" or consider it equally > "insignificant?".That's 6-8 gallons for every one hundred, perhaps more when > using high FFA oils. That's 300-400 miles of travel in a VW Golf or Jetta > every hundred gallons produced. It also equates to 6-8% less fossil diesel > being consumed. Hey Todd, I see the loss with 6%-8% worth saving or any loss for that fact. I understand what you are saying about economically feasible, and so forth,...I have no difference and agree 100% with every point you made. My situation of home brewing is that of a mission to carefully produce good quality BD in the least amount of time due to my lack of space to keep a working processor on standby, or ready for production. Simply put, (I still rent) I need to get this ugly equipment out of here, (make it disappear!) once I have multi-batches brewed in my time period and outputted to the separation tank! I hope to have me green processor someday. However, I have to sacrifice the 6%-8% of additional resources due to the time factor/landlord. Using the two-stage method (in my case), I believe would restrict my output to just 50 liters in the same time-period. This would result in a 75% production loss. I drive 80 minutes to pick up the reactor and supporting equipment and fully assemble the processor. I produce 50 liters per batch for a total of 200 liters and is a full-time procedure for me at this stage of the game. I do this 1x per month. After appox.8 hours, I have 200 liters in a separation drum, that will be drained to a wash tank 24hrs.later. I use BD im my Isuzu box truck and burn my 200 liters in 1.5 days! I'm currently working to improve to output to 100 liters per batch. > As for time being a governing factor... If you set your system up right, > there's precious little more time involved than what it takes to switch on > pumps and motors along with a little prudent oversight. > Good to know, this is what I needed to know from my "your thoughts" post. Thanks, -Kevin > > - Original Message - > From: "Kevin Shea" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 12:38 PM > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel > > > > Hi Todd, > > I just reread the "Fool proof Method" on Journey's website to get > > reacquainted with the acid/base process. > > > > It appears to be a time hungry method! For example: "...After adding the > > acid and methanol in Stage One, you mix for two hours (I'm being brief on > > the process to emphasize the time line) > > > > After mixing: let the batch sit for 8 hours or overnight. ( I would let > sit > > overnight) > > 5 more minutes of mixing when adding the sodiumhydroxide...to complete > stage > > one > > > > Staged two has combined of 7 hours of settling time, not including > reheating > > and draining time, before moving onto the wash stage > > > > Todd, > > I guess for the 6%-8% loss in the single-stage process, I'm not sure I see > > the value in the Two Stage acid process as your paying for the loss with > > time, plus additional energy to reheat and mix. > > > > Your thoughts? > > > > -Kevin > > > > > > > > is acid base much better? > > > > > > Even with fairly clean and unabused oil, you can still produce 6-8% > soaps. > > > Acid/base prevents that 6-8% loss, and then some if the oil is highly > > > abused.. > > > > > > Todd Swearingen > > > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel
Kevin, > I guess for the 6%-8% loss in the single-stage process, I'm not sure I see > the value in the Two Stage acid process as your paying for the loss with > time, plus additional energy to reheat and mix. > > Your thoughts? Just what are you doing with that 6% -8% loss? Would you flush 6-8% of petroleum diesel "down the drain" or consider it equally "insignificant?".That's 6-8 gallons for every one hundred, perhaps more when using high FFA oils. That's 300-400 miles of travel in a VW Golf or Jetta every hundred gallons produced. It also equates to 6-8% less fossil diesel being consumed. You might give some thought to reconsidering how inconsequential 6-8% is. As for time being a governing factor... If you set your system up right, there's precious little more time involved than what it takes to switch on pumps and motors along with a little prudent oversight. Try dealing with the cumulative waste of straight base for a while and you'll hopefully start to rethink those things that may not intially seem to be consequential, or important, or economically feasible. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: "Kevin Shea" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 12:38 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel > Hi Todd, > I just reread the "Fool proof Method" on Journey's website to get > reacquainted with the acid/base process. > > It appears to be a time hungry method! For example: "...After adding the > acid and methanol in Stage One, you mix for two hours (I'm being brief on > the process to emphasize the time line) > > After mixing: let the batch sit for 8 hours or overnight. ( I would let sit > overnight) > 5 more minutes of mixing when adding the sodiumhydroxide...to complete stage > one > > Staged two has combined of 7 hours of settling time, not including reheating > and draining time, before moving onto the wash stage > > Todd, > I guess for the 6%-8% loss in the single-stage process, I'm not sure I see > the value in the Two Stage acid process as your paying for the loss with > time, plus additional energy to reheat and mix. > > Your thoughts? > > -Kevin > > > > > is acid base much better? > > > > Even with fairly clean and unabused oil, you can still produce 6-8% soaps. > > Acid/base prevents that 6-8% loss, and then some if the oil is highly > > abused.. > > > > Todd Swearingen > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel
Hi Todd, I just reread the "Fool proof Method" on Journey's website to get reacquainted with the acid/base process. It appears to be a time hungry method! For example: "...After adding the acid and methanol in Stage One, you mix for two hours (I'm being brief on the process to emphasize the time line) After mixing: let the batch sit for 8 hours or overnight. ( I would let sit overnight) 5 more minutes of mixing when adding the sodiumhydroxide...to complete stage one Staged two has combined of 7 hours of settling time, not including reheating and draining time, before moving onto the wash stage Todd, I guess for the 6%-8% loss in the single-stage process, I'm not sure I see the value in the Two Stage acid process as your paying for the loss with time, plus additional energy to reheat and mix. Your thoughts? -Kevin > > is acid base much better? > > Even with fairly clean and unabused oil, you can still produce 6-8% soaps. > Acid/base prevents that 6-8% loss, and then some if the oil is highly > abused.. > > Todd Swearingen Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel
Kevin, > is acid base much better? Even with fairly clean and unabused oil, you can still produce 6-8% soaps. Acid/base prevents that 6-8% loss, and then some if the oil is highly abused.. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: "Kevin Shea" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel > As far as the volume of BD, it's pretty close (Did not measure) to what I > started before adding the wash water. After 3 wash cycles, the finished > product is much lighter in color, clear. > > Also, my experience with emulsion has to do with too much agitation of me > jetting water into the batch in my earlier trials of biodiesel production > mistakes that yielded three layers (BD, Emulsion, Water). This emulsion > killed my BD output! > > So I'm pretty happy to have just two layers after using a mixer vs. bubble > in the wash process > > > > If you want to be 100% on the green side with such a fast-paced wash > > regimen, you'll want to install a > > > > If you really want to improve your energy recovery, you can pump the > > majority of the water > > Sorry, I produce the BD at my apartment and have to clean the processors, > drums, hoses, etc. up rather quickly before the landlord has a cow! I'm > interested in condensing the byproduct to capture the methanol, but could > not find the right parts and will proibly find a used water heater to > develope one. > > However, when a time comes for me to own my 1st house, I will be interested > in creating the most efficiant/green process to produce BD! > > > > > And if you really want to get efficient, producing more fuel and less > soaps > > and using fewer lower volumes of chemicals, the next jump would be going > > into acid/base once you've got straight base processing down pat. > > > > Todd, is acid base much better? Is that the process you use? > I get perfectly good WVO from a restaurant (Canola), and I thought acid base > is used for poor WVO? > > > Thanks, > > Kevin > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel
As far as the volume of BD, it's pretty close (Did not measure) to what I started before adding the wash water. After 3 wash cycles, the finished product is much lighter in color, clear. Also, my experience with emulsion has to do with too much agitation of me jetting water into the batch in my earlier trials of biodiesel production mistakes that yielded three layers (BD, Emulsion, Water). This emulsion killed my BD output! So I'm pretty happy to have just two layers after using a mixer vs. bubble in the wash process > If you want to be 100% on the green side with such a fast-paced wash > regimen, you'll want to install a > > If you really want to improve your energy recovery, you can pump the > majority of the water Sorry, I produce the BD at my apartment and have to clean the processors, drums, hoses, etc. up rather quickly before the landlord has a cow! I'm interested in condensing the byproduct to capture the methanol, but could not find the right parts and will proibly find a used water heater to develope one. However, when a time comes for me to own my 1st house, I will be interested in creating the most efficiant/green process to produce BD! > > And if you really want to get efficient, producing more fuel and less soaps > and using fewer lower volumes of chemicals, the next jump would be going > into acid/base once you've got straight base processing down pat. > Todd, is acid base much better? Is that the process you use? I get perfectly good WVO from a restaurant (Canola), and I thought acid base is used for poor WVO? Thanks, Kevin Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel
Hello Kevin, > I had a chance to try your "fast " wash method today (35 gal white poly > drum) with a simple 55 gal drum mixer and wanted to thank you for the time > you just gave back to me! Glad you like the results. If you want to be 100% on the green side with such a fast-paced wash regimen, you'll want to install a wash water aggregation tank, where all your waste water is accumulated. Let it set 24-48 hours and you'll see that some microscopic biodiesel coalesces and resurfaces. Eventually there will be a thick enough layer to recover easily. If you really want to improve your energy recovery, you can pump the majority of the water off the bottom of the ag tank into a wash water treatment tank, where it can be treated with magnesium sulfate (epsom salt) or aluminum sulfate. The soluble potassium or sodium soaps get converted to non-soluble magnesium or aluminum soaps and float to the surface as grease, leaving water that is teinted with either potassium or sodium sulfate, rather than soaps that can accumulate topically in a yard if released in a grey water irrigation scheme. The grease can be recovered and used as a solid fuel or a lubricant. And if you really want to get efficient, producing more fuel and less soaps and using fewer lower volumes of chemicals, the next jump would be going into acid/base once you've got straight base processing down pat. I guess there's always room for improvement. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: "Kevin Shea" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 5:20 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel > Todd, > I had a chance to try your "fast " wash method today (35 gal white poly > drum) with a simple 55 gal drum mixer and wanted to thank you for the time > you just gave back to me! > > Success! > > At least for me, this procedure is much better & faster to wash Biodiesel > this way, compared to the bubble-wash method. Just 5 minutes of "appearin g > homogenous": and allowing the 1 hour settling,...removed a heavy layer of > settled soap murky water (looked like melted marshmallows). Drained-off & > replaced the water and repeated for a total of 3 wash cycles. The murkiness > of the water & biodiesel layers are currently clear and is settling for 24 > hours. Excellent separation, no emulsion! > > -Kevin Shea > > - Original Message - > From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 9:13 AM > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel > > > > Kevin, > > > > Yes. You can speed up the process considerably. It involves the following: > > . > > 1) Throw out your mist washer. > > 2) Box up your bubble washer. > > 3) Make absolutely sure that you never try to wash an incomplete reaction > by > > testing washing a 1 ounce sample in a sealed jar. > > 4) Use a motor driven impeller to mix the water/fuel mixture to the point > of > > appearing homogenous for ~5 minutes. > > 5) Let settle 1 hour. > > 6) Syphon off the top layer of fuel and repeat steps 5, 6 & 7 two more > > cycles. > > 7) Let the fuel air dry or heat to 120*F to dry. > > 8) Combine all your wash waters and the 1"-2" of fuel that was left on top > > after each syphoning in a collection tank. > > 9) Let settle 24 hours. > > 10) Remove lower water layer to a wastewater treatment tank to recover the > > soaps. > > 11) Return the accumulated fuel from the wash water residue to your first > > wash of your next batch. > > > > Depending upon the volume of oil in your batch, the hp/size of your > reactor > > tank and wash tank motors/impellers, you could get your entire batch > process > > time down to 24 hours. > > > > Most people avoid mechanical mixing of the fuel at the wash stages, > thinking > > that it will create emulsion problems. And they're right if they try to > wash > > "fuel" from incomplete reactions. > > > > That's the primary reason why they were "invented" and have achieved such > > wide acceptance - too many people aren't meticulous about making sure that > > their reactions are complete. > > > > Todd Swearingen > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Kevin Shea" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: > > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 10:43 PM > > Subject: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > Is there a way to speed-up the water-biodiesel wash during the "s
Re: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel
Todd, I had a chance to try your "fast " wash method today (35 gal white poly drum) with a simple 55 gal drum mixer and wanted to thank you for the time you just gave back to me! Success! At least for me, this procedure is much better & faster to wash Biodiesel this way, compared to the bubble-wash method. Just 5 minutes of "appearing homogenous": and allowing the 1 hour settling,...removed a heavy layer of settled soap murky water (looked like melted marshmallows). Drained-off & replaced the water and repeated for a total of 3 wash cycles. The murkiness of the water & biodiesel layers are currently clear and is settling for 24 hours. Excellent separation, no emulsion! -Kevin Shea - Original Message - From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 9:13 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel > Kevin, > > Yes. You can speed up the process considerably. It involves the following: > . > 1) Throw out your mist washer. > 2) Box up your bubble washer. > 3) Make absolutely sure that you never try to wash an incomplete reaction by > testing washing a 1 ounce sample in a sealed jar. > 4) Use a motor driven impeller to mix the water/fuel mixture to the point of > appearing homogenous for ~5 minutes. > 5) Let settle 1 hour. > 6) Syphon off the top layer of fuel and repeat steps 5, 6 & 7 two more > cycles. > 7) Let the fuel air dry or heat to 120*F to dry. > 8) Combine all your wash waters and the 1"-2" of fuel that was left on top > after each syphoning in a collection tank. > 9) Let settle 24 hours. > 10) Remove lower water layer to a wastewater treatment tank to recover the > soaps. > 11) Return the accumulated fuel from the wash water residue to your first > wash of your next batch. > > Depending upon the volume of oil in your batch, the hp/size of your reactor > tank and wash tank motors/impellers, you could get your entire batch process > time down to 24 hours. > > Most people avoid mechanical mixing of the fuel at the wash stages, thinking > that it will create emulsion problems. And they're right if they try to wash > "fuel" from incomplete reactions. > > That's the primary reason why they were "invented" and have achieved such > wide acceptance - too many people aren't meticulous about making sure that > their reactions are complete. > > Todd Swearingen > > - Original Message - > From: "Kevin Shea" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 10:43 PM > Subject: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel > > > > Hello, > > > > Is there a way to speed-up the water-biodiesel wash during the "settling > of washing the fuel? I've read the bubble washing techniques & understand > it, but for the best quality of biodiesel, it can take up-to-a-week, with > several washes. One person mentioned a centrifuge, which I never used & know > nothing about that equipment. I imagine it to be a very expensive machine, > takes up a large amount of space, and may not be available to the average > homebrewer. > > > > Could vibration assist in aiding water to help filter water to "shake" > past the biodiesel to the bottom water level in a shorter amount of time? > > > > Has anyone tried to experiment using vibration? Also, -In order to > understand the process better, does anyone have a mpeg simulation > illustrating the (Molecular model) cleansing of biodiesel in the wash stage > process or something similar? > > > > I am curious to see the what exactly is happening in the batch? While I'm > at it, how about a simulation of the transesterification process in a mpeg? > > > > Anyone? > > > > > > Thank you, > > Kevin Shea Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel
Michael, Settling doesn't solve the soap/catalyst/glycerin/alcohol contaminants issue. Best way to wash? The simplest we've found is mechanical agitation with motor and impeller. No compressors. No pumps. No plumbing. Quick and efficient. Easily up- or down-sized. Also, we're more inclined to use a 3:2 ratio of fuel to water, with a fourth wash instead of just three, as water can only absorb so many contaminants per given volume. An visual is trying to wash out a dish soap bottle. Six 1/4 cup washes accomplish nearly as much as six bottles filled with water. A water recycling system is being prepared, which is nothing more than moving the waste water up consecutively from 4th wash to 3rd, 3rd to 2nd, 2nd to 1st, then 1st to the waste water treatment stage. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: "michael meeks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 9:41 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel > Todd, I forgot to add that I first filter through an automotive oil filter, then through a 3 micron oil filter this is after allowing the biodiesel to settle in a 55 gal barrel for a couple days. if you dot think this is adequate what is the best way to wash? > - Original Message - > From: Appal Energy > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 7:22 PM > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel > > > Yes Michael, > > We do. While you might not "need" or want to wash, we don't have the luxury > of risking any increase in frequency of any automotive repairs by burning > any fuel that is of lesser grade than possible. > > Nor can we afford to pass off fuel that could achieve the same negative > result for any locals who might use it. > > Detergents in gasoline or petroleum diesel? Maybe. Sodium or postassium > soaps in biodiesel? Not. > > A can of HEET in the tank every once in awhile to resolve a water issue? > Maybe. A dose of methanol to hoses and seals with every inch on the > odometer? Not. > > And certainly there isn't any benefit to leaving carmelizing glycerin > floating freely in a fuel and headed for an injector. > > I think it best be left to the petro-chemical distillaries to leave > varnishes, paraffins and the like in their fuel and serve it up as champagne > to the unsuspecting. > > As for any premise of "no problems 'til now?" > > You might take note that nothing is ever broken until it breaks. > > Todd Swearingen > > - Original Message - > From: "michael meeks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 4:41 PM > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel > > > > do you really need to "wash" biodiesel? i've been running a 50/50 > biodiesel/petro diesel for a few months so far and my dodge cummins runs > great on it. > > - Original Message - > > From: Appal Energy > > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 9:13 AM > > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel > > > > > > Kevin, > > > > Yes. You can speed up the process considerably. It involves the > following: > > . > > 1) Throw out your mist washer. > > 2) Box up your bubble washer. > > 3) Make absolutely sure that you never try to wash an incomplete > reaction by > > testing washing a 1 ounce sample in a sealed jar. > > 4) Use a motor driven impeller to mix the water/fuel mixture to the > point of > > appearing homogenous for ~5 minutes. > > 5) Let settle 1 hour. > > 6) Syphon off the top layer of fuel and repeat steps 5, 6 & 7 two more > > cycles. > > 7) Let the fuel air dry or heat to 120*F to dry. > > 8) Combine all your wash waters and the 1"-2" of fuel that was left on > top > > after each syphoning in a collection tank. > > 9) Let settle 24 hours. > > 10) Remove lower water layer to a wastewater treatment tank to recover > the > > soaps. > > 11) Return the accumulated fuel from the wash water residue to your > first > > wash of your next batch. > > > > Depending upon the volume of oil in your batch, the hp/size of your > reactor > > tank and wash tank motors/impellers, you could get your entire batch > process > > time down to 24 hours. > > > > Most people avoid mechanical mixing of the fuel at the wash stages, > thinking > > that it will create emulsion problems. An
Re: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel
Todd, I forgot to add that I first filter through an automotive oil filter, then through a 3 micron oil filter this is after allowing the biodiesel to settle in a 55 gal barrel for a couple days. if you dot think this is adequate what is the best way to wash? - Original Message - From: Appal Energy To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 7:22 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel Yes Michael, We do. While you might not "need" or want to wash, we don't have the luxury of risking any increase in frequency of any automotive repairs by burning any fuel that is of lesser grade than possible. Nor can we afford to pass off fuel that could achieve the same negative result for any locals who might use it. Detergents in gasoline or petroleum diesel? Maybe. Sodium or postassium soaps in biodiesel? Not. A can of HEET in the tank every once in awhile to resolve a water issue? Maybe. A dose of methanol to hoses and seals with every inch on the odometer? Not. And certainly there isn't any benefit to leaving carmelizing glycerin floating freely in a fuel and headed for an injector. I think it best be left to the petro-chemical distillaries to leave varnishes, paraffins and the like in their fuel and serve it up as champagne to the unsuspecting. As for any premise of "no problems 'til now?" You might take note that nothing is ever broken until it breaks. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: "michael meeks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 4:41 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel > do you really need to "wash" biodiesel? i've been running a 50/50 biodiesel/petro diesel for a few months so far and my dodge cummins runs great on it. > - Original Message - > From: Appal Energy > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 9:13 AM > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel > > > Kevin, > > Yes. You can speed up the process considerably. It involves the following: > . > 1) Throw out your mist washer. > 2) Box up your bubble washer. > 3) Make absolutely sure that you never try to wash an incomplete reaction by > testing washing a 1 ounce sample in a sealed jar. > 4) Use a motor driven impeller to mix the water/fuel mixture to the point of > appearing homogenous for ~5 minutes. > 5) Let settle 1 hour. > 6) Syphon off the top layer of fuel and repeat steps 5, 6 & 7 two more > cycles. > 7) Let the fuel air dry or heat to 120*F to dry. > 8) Combine all your wash waters and the 1"-2" of fuel that was left on top > after each syphoning in a collection tank. > 9) Let settle 24 hours. > 10) Remove lower water layer to a wastewater treatment tank to recover the > soaps. > 11) Return the accumulated fuel from the wash water residue to your first > wash of your next batch. > > Depending upon the volume of oil in your batch, the hp/size of your reactor > tank and wash tank motors/impellers, you could get your entire batch process > time down to 24 hours. > > Most people avoid mechanical mixing of the fuel at the wash stages, thinking > that it will create emulsion problems. And they're right if they try to wash > "fuel" from incomplete reactions. > > That's the primary reason why they were "invented" and have achieved such > wide acceptance - too many people aren't meticulous about making sure that > their reactions are complete. > > Todd Swearingen > > - Original Message - > From: "Kevin Shea" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 10:43 PM > Subject: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel > > > > Hello, > > > > Is there a way to speed-up the water-biodiesel wash during the "settling > of washing the fuel? I've read the bubble washing techniques & understand > it, but for the best quality of biodiesel, it can take up-to-a-week, with > several washes. One person mentioned a centrifuge, which I never used & know > nothing about that equipment. I imagine it to be a very expensive machine, > takes up a large amount of space, and may not be available to the average > homebrewer. > > > > Could vibration assist in aiding water to help filter water to "shake" > past the biodiesel to the bottom water level in a shorter a
Re: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel
Yes Michael, We do. While you might not "need" or want to wash, we don't have the luxury of risking any increase in frequency of any automotive repairs by burning any fuel that is of lesser grade than possible. Nor can we afford to pass off fuel that could achieve the same negative result for any locals who might use it. Detergents in gasoline or petroleum diesel? Maybe. Sodium or postassium soaps in biodiesel? Not. A can of HEET in the tank every once in awhile to resolve a water issue? Maybe. A dose of methanol to hoses and seals with every inch on the odometer? Not. And certainly there isn't any benefit to leaving carmelizing glycerin floating freely in a fuel and headed for an injector. I think it best be left to the petro-chemical distillaries to leave varnishes, paraffins and the like in their fuel and serve it up as champagne to the unsuspecting. As for any premise of "no problems 'til now?" You might take note that nothing is ever broken until it breaks. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: "michael meeks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 4:41 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel > do you really need to "wash" biodiesel? i've been running a 50/50 biodiesel/petro diesel for a few months so far and my dodge cummins runs great on it. > - Original Message - > From: Appal Energy > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 9:13 AM > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel > > > Kevin, > > Yes. You can speed up the process considerably. It involves the following: > . > 1) Throw out your mist washer. > 2) Box up your bubble washer. > 3) Make absolutely sure that you never try to wash an incomplete reaction by > testing washing a 1 ounce sample in a sealed jar. > 4) Use a motor driven impeller to mix the water/fuel mixture to the point of > appearing homogenous for ~5 minutes. > 5) Let settle 1 hour. > 6) Syphon off the top layer of fuel and repeat steps 5, 6 & 7 two more > cycles. > 7) Let the fuel air dry or heat to 120*F to dry. > 8) Combine all your wash waters and the 1"-2" of fuel that was left on top > after each syphoning in a collection tank. > 9) Let settle 24 hours. > 10) Remove lower water layer to a wastewater treatment tank to recover the > soaps. > 11) Return the accumulated fuel from the wash water residue to your first > wash of your next batch. > > Depending upon the volume of oil in your batch, the hp/size of your reactor > tank and wash tank motors/impellers, you could get your entire batch process > time down to 24 hours. > > Most people avoid mechanical mixing of the fuel at the wash stages, thinking > that it will create emulsion problems. And they're right if they try to wash > "fuel" from incomplete reactions. > > That's the primary reason why they were "invented" and have achieved such > wide acceptance - too many people aren't meticulous about making sure that > their reactions are complete. > > Todd Swearingen > > - Original Message - > From: "Kevin Shea" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 10:43 PM > Subject: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel > > > > Hello, > > > > Is there a way to speed-up the water-biodiesel wash during the "settling > of washing the fuel? I've read the bubble washing techniques & understand > it, but for the best quality of biodiesel, it can take up-to-a-week, with > several washes. One person mentioned a centrifuge, which I never used & know > nothing about that equipment. I imagine it to be a very expensive machine, > takes up a large amount of space, and may not be available to the average > homebrewer. > > > > Could vibration assist in aiding water to help filter water to "shake" > past the biodiesel to the bottom water level in a shorter amount of time? > > > > Has anyone tried to experiment using vibration? Also, -In order to > understand the process better, does anyone have a mpeg simulation > illustrating the (Molecular model) cleansing of biodiesel in the wash stage > process or something similar? > > > > I am curious to see the what exactly is happening in the batch? While I'm > at it, how about a simulation of the transesterification process in a mpeg? > > > > Anyone? > > > > > > Thank you, > > Kevin Shea > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this mes
Re: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel
do you really need to "wash" biodiesel? i've been running a 50/50 biodiesel/petro diesel for a few months so far and my dodge cummins runs great on it. - Original Message - From: Appal Energy To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 9:13 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel Kevin, Yes. You can speed up the process considerably. It involves the following: . 1) Throw out your mist washer. 2) Box up your bubble washer. 3) Make absolutely sure that you never try to wash an incomplete reaction by testing washing a 1 ounce sample in a sealed jar. 4) Use a motor driven impeller to mix the water/fuel mixture to the point of appearing homogenous for ~5 minutes. 5) Let settle 1 hour. 6) Syphon off the top layer of fuel and repeat steps 5, 6 & 7 two more cycles. 7) Let the fuel air dry or heat to 120*F to dry. 8) Combine all your wash waters and the 1"-2" of fuel that was left on top after each syphoning in a collection tank. 9) Let settle 24 hours. 10) Remove lower water layer to a wastewater treatment tank to recover the soaps. 11) Return the accumulated fuel from the wash water residue to your first wash of your next batch. Depending upon the volume of oil in your batch, the hp/size of your reactor tank and wash tank motors/impellers, you could get your entire batch process time down to 24 hours. Most people avoid mechanical mixing of the fuel at the wash stages, thinking that it will create emulsion problems. And they're right if they try to wash "fuel" from incomplete reactions. That's the primary reason why they were "invented" and have achieved such wide acceptance - too many people aren't meticulous about making sure that their reactions are complete. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: "Kevin Shea" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 10:43 PM Subject: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel > Hello, > > Is there a way to speed-up the water-biodiesel wash during the "settling of washing the fuel? I've read the bubble washing techniques & understand it, but for the best quality of biodiesel, it can take up-to-a-week, with several washes. One person mentioned a centrifuge, which I never used & know nothing about that equipment. I imagine it to be a very expensive machine, takes up a large amount of space, and may not be available to the average homebrewer. > > Could vibration assist in aiding water to help filter water to "shake" past the biodiesel to the bottom water level in a shorter amount of time? > > Has anyone tried to experiment using vibration? Also, -In order to understand the process better, does anyone have a mpeg simulation illustrating the (Molecular model) cleansing of biodiesel in the wash stage process or something similar? > > I am curious to see the what exactly is happening in the batch? While I'm at it, how about a simulation of the transesterification process in a mpeg? > > Anyone? > > > Thank you, > Kevin Shea > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT -- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Bi
Re: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel
Thanks for the posts! -Wouldn't the glycerin wash step or agitating the glycerin just recontaminate the top layer? Or is the glycerin beneficial in filtering the biodiesel (on its way to the bottom again)? Why wouldn't you discard the glycerin from the batch rather then remixing it? Glycerin, bad right? Also, Keith's number 18 > 18. Optional: For easier washing: Drain off the glycerin. Measure > off 25% of the total glycerin (including previously drained > glycerin if you followed step 15) and mix with 10 milliliters of 10% > phosphoric acid (H3PO4) for each litre of oil/fat processed. The > mixing can be done with a wooden spoon in a plastic container. Pour > the acidified glycerin back into the reactor and stir for 20 > minutes, unheated. Allow to settle for at least six hours and then > drain the glycerine fraction completely. I will have to try this. - Original Message - From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 11:42 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel > Hi Ken > > >on 5/1/04 8:43 PM, Kevin Shea at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > Is there a way to speed-up the water-biodiesel wash during > > > the "settling of washing the fuel? I've read the bubble > > > washing techniques & understand it, but for the best quality > > > of biodiesel, it can take up-to-a-week, with several washes. > > > >One thing you can do that really helps A LOT (and is still > >not widely practiced for some reason) is the so-called > >"glycerine wash" step. After the glycerine separation occurs, > >you re-agitate the mix and let it settle again. Repeat a 2nd > >time. Then add some water (maybe 15% by volume) very gently, > >and very gently stir up the mix again. (You'd think this would > >form an emulsion, but it doesn't -- the glycerine still being > >in there prevents it). Repeat several times, letting the > >glycerine/water/alcohol phase settle out between remixes. > >When you finally take the biodiesel off the top, there's > >practically no alkali, no soap, and no alcohol left in it. > > > >I do this manually every batch, followed by a quick hot > >water bulk wash and a 8-12 hour bubble wash, and I can easily > >get from WVO to fuel in the car in 4 days. And most of that > >is just working around other things in my schedule. If you > >automated it, the whole thing could be done in 2 days, > >I suppose. -K > > That comes from here: > > [... when the processing's finished] > > 17. Allow to settle for one hour. > > 18. Optional: For easier washing: Drain off the glycerine. Measure > off 25% of the total glycerine (including previously drained > glycerine if you followed step 15) and mix with 10 milliliters of 10% > phosphoric acid (H3PO4) for each litre of oil/fat processed. The > mixing can be done with a wooden spoon in a plastic container. Pour > the acidified glycerine back into the reactor and stir for 20 > minutes, unheated. Allow to settle for at least six hours and then > drain the glycerine fraction completely. > > http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html > Foolproof biodiesel process: Journey to Forever > > It's been there for a long time. > > Best > > Keith > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel
Hello Ken, > One thing you can do that really helps A LOT (and is still > not widely practiced for some reason) is the so-called > "glycerine wash" step. While this may help, it increases problems down the line for those who wish to recover the excess alcohol and FFAs, as it generates a dilute solution that requires greater heat inputs to recover the alcohol and longer residence times to recove the FFAs. Many are indeed doubtful as to what the benefits of adding water in the presence of magnitudes of glycerin cocktail vs adding water in the presence of minitudes (?). Perhaps what would be in order is for someone who has the time to conduct a few side by side samplings of "glycerin wash" vs no glycerin wash and the cost/benefits of one over the other. One would hope that the end goal of homebrewers is to use/recover all the energy possible from the process of making biodiesel, all the while reducing the waste stream and it's toxicity. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: "Ken Provost" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 9:28 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel > on 5/1/04 8:43 PM, Kevin Shea at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > Is there a way to speed-up the water-biodiesel wash during > > the "settling of washing the fuel? I've read the bubble > > washing techniques & understand it, but for the best quality > > of biodiesel, it can take up-to-a-week, with several washes. > > One thing you can do that really helps A LOT (and is still > not widely practiced for some reason) is the so-called > "glycerine wash" step. After the glycerine separation occurs, > you re-agitate the mix and let it settle again. Repeat a 2nd > time. Then add some water (maybe 15% by volume) very gently, > and very gently stir up the mix again. (You'd think this would > form an emulsion, but it doesn't -- the glycerine still being > in there prevents it). Repeat several times, letting the > glycerine/water/alcohol phase settle out between remixes. > When you finally take the biodiesel off the top, there's > practically no alkali, no soap, and no alcohol left in it. > > I do this manually every batch, followed by a quick hot > water bulk wash and a 8-12 hour bubble wash, and I can easily > get from WVO to fuel in the car in 4 days. And most of that > is just working around other things in my schedule. If you > automated it, the whole thing could be done in 2 days, > I suppose. -K > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel
Hi Ken >on 5/1/04 8:43 PM, Kevin Shea at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > Is there a way to speed-up the water-biodiesel wash during > > the "settling of washing the fuel? I've read the bubble > > washing techniques & understand it, but for the best quality > > of biodiesel, it can take up-to-a-week, with several washes. > >One thing you can do that really helps A LOT (and is still >not widely practiced for some reason) is the so-called >"glycerine wash" step. After the glycerine separation occurs, >you re-agitate the mix and let it settle again. Repeat a 2nd >time. Then add some water (maybe 15% by volume) very gently, >and very gently stir up the mix again. (You'd think this would >form an emulsion, but it doesn't -- the glycerine still being >in there prevents it). Repeat several times, letting the >glycerine/water/alcohol phase settle out between remixes. >When you finally take the biodiesel off the top, there's >practically no alkali, no soap, and no alcohol left in it. > >I do this manually every batch, followed by a quick hot >water bulk wash and a 8-12 hour bubble wash, and I can easily >get from WVO to fuel in the car in 4 days. And most of that >is just working around other things in my schedule. If you >automated it, the whole thing could be done in 2 days, >I suppose. -K That comes from here: [... when the processing's finished] 17. Allow to settle for one hour. 18. Optional: For easier washing: Drain off the glycerine. Measure off 25% of the total glycerine (including previously drained glycerine if you followed step 15) and mix with 10 milliliters of 10% phosphoric acid (H3PO4) for each litre of oil/fat processed. The mixing can be done with a wooden spoon in a plastic container. Pour the acidified glycerine back into the reactor and stir for 20 minutes, unheated. Allow to settle for at least six hours and then drain the glycerine fraction completely. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html Foolproof biodiesel process: Journey to Forever It's been there for a long time. Best Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel
on 5/1/04 8:43 PM, Kevin Shea at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Hello, > > Is there a way to speed-up the water-biodiesel wash during > the "settling of washing the fuel? I've read the bubble > washing techniques & understand it, but for the best quality > of biodiesel, it can take up-to-a-week, with several washes. One thing you can do that really helps A LOT (and is still not widely practiced for some reason) is the so-called "glycerine wash" step. After the glycerine separation occurs, you re-agitate the mix and let it settle again. Repeat a 2nd time. Then add some water (maybe 15% by volume) very gently, and very gently stir up the mix again. (You'd think this would form an emulsion, but it doesn't -- the glycerine still being in there prevents it). Repeat several times, letting the glycerine/water/alcohol phase settle out between remixes. When you finally take the biodiesel off the top, there's practically no alkali, no soap, and no alcohol left in it. I do this manually every batch, followed by a quick hot water bulk wash and a 8-12 hour bubble wash, and I can easily get from WVO to fuel in the car in 4 days. And most of that is just working around other things in my schedule. If you automated it, the whole thing could be done in 2 days, I suppose. -K Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel
Kevin, Yes. You can speed up the process considerably. It involves the following: . 1) Throw out your mist washer. 2) Box up your bubble washer. 3) Make absolutely sure that you never try to wash an incomplete reaction by testing washing a 1 ounce sample in a sealed jar. 4) Use a motor driven impeller to mix the water/fuel mixture to the point of appearing homogenous for ~5 minutes. 5) Let settle 1 hour. 6) Syphon off the top layer of fuel and repeat steps 5, 6 & 7 two more cycles. 7) Let the fuel air dry or heat to 120*F to dry. 8) Combine all your wash waters and the 1"-2" of fuel that was left on top after each syphoning in a collection tank. 9) Let settle 24 hours. 10) Remove lower water layer to a wastewater treatment tank to recover the soaps. 11) Return the accumulated fuel from the wash water residue to your first wash of your next batch. Depending upon the volume of oil in your batch, the hp/size of your reactor tank and wash tank motors/impellers, you could get your entire batch process time down to 24 hours. Most people avoid mechanical mixing of the fuel at the wash stages, thinking that it will create emulsion problems. And they're right if they try to wash "fuel" from incomplete reactions. That's the primary reason why they were "invented" and have achieved such wide acceptance - too many people aren't meticulous about making sure that their reactions are complete. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: "Kevin Shea" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 10:43 PM Subject: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel > Hello, > > Is there a way to speed-up the water-biodiesel wash during the "settling of washing the fuel? I've read the bubble washing techniques & understand it, but for the best quality of biodiesel, it can take up-to-a-week, with several washes. One person mentioned a centrifuge, which I never used & know nothing about that equipment. I imagine it to be a very expensive machine, takes up a large amount of space, and may not be available to the average homebrewer. > > Could vibration assist in aiding water to help filter water to "shake" past the biodiesel to the bottom water level in a shorter amount of time? > > Has anyone tried to experiment using vibration? Also, -In order to understand the process better, does anyone have a mpeg simulation illustrating the (Molecular model) cleansing of biodiesel in the wash stage process or something similar? > > I am curious to see the what exactly is happening in the batch? While I'm at it, how about a simulation of the transesterification process in a mpeg? > > Anyone? > > > Thank you, > Kevin Shea > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
