Re: Veg oils as chainsaw bar oil was Re: [biofuel] Thanks Kieth

[Appal Energy]

Lecithin is usually removed via centrifuge.

It has been our experience working with local restaurants and
restaurant supply companies that the sales reps do not know which
products in their line of oils and hydrogenated shortenings are
the degummed versions and which are not. In virtually every
instance they had to consult their suppliers to verify. In
several instances their "creamy fry oil" was a non-degummed
variety.

Our interest came primarily from R&D of an all vegetable candle
that we formulated. Problems with wicks carmeling gave cause to
explore the matter.

Todd Swearingen

- Original Message -
From: norris hobson (SRI) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 6:56 AM
Subject: RE: Veg oils as chainsaw bar oil was Re: [biofuel]
Thanks Kieth


> I thought all food grade svo had been degummed.  Could you give
more
> info about any gums left and how to remove them etc.
> Norris
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 03 September 2002 02:13
> To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Veg oils as chainsaw bar oil was Re: [biofuel] Thanks
Kieth
>
>
> You'll want to make sure that the oil has been degummed
(lecithin
> gums removed). That's a tuff one to insure even with SVO. Even
> most of the distributors of fryer oils to restaurants are
> clueless as to whether or not the oil is degummed. The stuff is
> murder on deep fat fryers.
>
> Lecithin, while in light doses can behave as a mold release or
> lubricant, tends to congeal at moderate to high temperatures
and
> build up over time. Most people have seen the end result of
> lecithin exposed to higher temps on their kitchen bakeware. The
> same would occur on a chainsaw bar in the areas most prone to
> heat buildup. Doesn't mean the oil can't be used, just that the
> bar will have to be monitored tacky gum residue and possibly
> cleaned with greater frequency.
>
> Todd Swearingen
>
> - Original Message -----
> From: T. Gray Shaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 1:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [biofuel] Thanks Kieth
>
>
> > Thanks for the tip about using veggie oil as bar oil, Hakan.
> I'm gonna try
> > that.  I bet you could use coarsely filtered WVO.
> >
> > Fungi Perfecti (http://www.fungi.com/) in Olympia, WA sells
> > spore-inoculated bar oil, one for softwoods and one for
> hardwoods.  Saves a
> > step when you're gonna grow culinary shrooms on logs.
> >
> > - Gray
> >
> > >Apart from running 2-stroke engines on mix of ethanol/veg
oil,
> the chain
> > >saw is a different thing. For some decades now, I use veg
oil
> for lubricating
> > >the saw blade. In Sweden, it is now a standard to do that
and
> almost all
> > >do it. When you buy a chain saw they recommend it now. From
a
> pollution
> > >point this is very important, since the blade lubrication
goes
> directly to
> > >the surrounding earth.
> > >
> > >Hakan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >   Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> >
> > Biofuels list archives:
> > http://archive.nnytech.net/
> >
> > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
> > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
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> Service.
> >
> >
>
>
>
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> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
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RE: Veg oils as chainsaw bar oil was Re: [biofuel] Thanks Kieth

[norris hobson (SRI)]

I thought all food grade svo had been degummed.  Could you give more 
info about any gums left and how to remove them etc.
Norris

-Original Message-
From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 03 September 2002 02:13
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Veg oils as chainsaw bar oil was Re: [biofuel] Thanks Kieth


You'll want to make sure that the oil has been degummed (lecithin
gums removed). That's a tuff one to insure even with SVO. Even
most of the distributors of fryer oils to restaurants are
clueless as to whether or not the oil is degummed. The stuff is
murder on deep fat fryers.

Lecithin, while in light doses can behave as a mold release or
lubricant, tends to congeal at moderate to high temperatures and
build up over time. Most people have seen the end result of
lecithin exposed to higher temps on their kitchen bakeware. The
same would occur on a chainsaw bar in the areas most prone to
heat buildup. Doesn't mean the oil can't be used, just that the
bar will have to be monitored tacky gum residue and possibly
cleaned with greater frequency.

Todd Swearingen

- Original Message -
From: T. Gray Shaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Thanks Kieth


> Thanks for the tip about using veggie oil as bar oil, Hakan.
I'm gonna try
> that.  I bet you could use coarsely filtered WVO.
>
> Fungi Perfecti (http://www.fungi.com/) in Olympia, WA sells
> spore-inoculated bar oil, one for softwoods and one for
hardwoods.  Saves a
> step when you're gonna grow culinary shrooms on logs.
>
> - Gray
>
> >Apart from running 2-stroke engines on mix of ethanol/veg oil,
the chain
> >saw is a different thing. For some decades now, I use veg oil
for lubricating
> >the saw blade. In Sweden, it is now a standard to do that and
almost all
> >do it. When you buy a chain saw they recommend it now. From a
pollution
> >point this is very important, since the blade lubrication goes
directly to
> >the surrounding earth.
> >
> >Hakan
>
>
>
>
>   Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
> Biofuels list archives:
> http://archive.nnytech.net/
>
> Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>



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Veg oils as chainsaw bar oil was Re: [biofuel] Thanks Kieth

[Appal Energy]

You'll want to make sure that the oil has been degummed (lecithin
gums removed). That's a tuff one to insure even with SVO. Even
most of the distributors of fryer oils to restaurants are
clueless as to whether or not the oil is degummed. The stuff is
murder on deep fat fryers.

Lecithin, while in light doses can behave as a mold release or
lubricant, tends to congeal at moderate to high temperatures and
build up over time. Most people have seen the end result of
lecithin exposed to higher temps on their kitchen bakeware. The
same would occur on a chainsaw bar in the areas most prone to
heat buildup. Doesn't mean the oil can't be used, just that the
bar will have to be monitored tacky gum residue and possibly
cleaned with greater frequency.

Todd Swearingen

- Original Message -
From: T. Gray Shaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Thanks Kieth


> Thanks for the tip about using veggie oil as bar oil, Hakan.
I'm gonna try
> that.  I bet you could use coarsely filtered WVO.
>
> Fungi Perfecti (http://www.fungi.com/) in Olympia, WA sells
> spore-inoculated bar oil, one for softwoods and one for
hardwoods.  Saves a
> step when you're gonna grow culinary shrooms on logs.
>
> - Gray
>
> >Apart from running 2-stroke engines on mix of ethanol/veg oil,
the chain
> >saw is a different thing. For some decades now, I use veg oil
for lubricating
> >the saw blade. In Sweden, it is now a standard to do that and
almost all
> >do it. When you buy a chain saw they recommend it now. From a
pollution
> >point this is very important, since the blade lubrication goes
directly to
> >the surrounding earth.
> >
> >Hakan
>
>
>
>
>   Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
> Biofuels list archives:
> http://archive.nnytech.net/
>
> Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>


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Re: [biofuel] Thanks Kieth

[T. Gray Shaw]

Thanks for the tip about using veggie oil as bar oil, Hakan.  I'm gonna try
that.  I bet you could use coarsely filtered WVO.

Fungi Perfecti (http://www.fungi.com/) in Olympia, WA sells
spore-inoculated bar oil, one for softwoods and one for hardwoods.  Saves a
step when you're gonna grow culinary shrooms on logs.

- Gray

>Apart from running 2-stroke engines on mix of ethanol/veg oil, the chain
>saw is a different thing. For some decades now, I use veg oil for lubricating
>the saw blade. In Sweden, it is now a standard to do that and almost all
>do it. When you buy a chain saw they recommend it now. From a pollution
>point this is very important, since the blade lubrication goes directly to
>the surrounding earth.
>
>Hakan




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RE: [biofuel] Thanks Kieth

[Hakan Falk]

I am taken off the list by the answers from Rod.Stalenberg (BP) to me
personally. I think that this is an important issue and would like to have
some qualified responses from list members that knows more about the
issues of dispersion of vegetable oil etc. Therefore the email is not edited
(trimmed) except that I will try to removed Yahoo advertising from now on.

Hakan

At 10:31 AM 9/2/2002 +1000, you wrote:
>I work for BP and no used motor oil is added to any commercial product .
>
>Rerefined lube base oils generally have lead stripped out during crack
>process .
>
>Regards Rod   0297954870
>d:^)
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Hakan Falk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Monday, 2 September 2002 10:28 AM
>To: Stalenberg, Rod
>Subject: RE: [biofuel] Thanks Kieth
>
>
>
>Sorry Rod,
>
>I was told that used motor oil had Led in it and since chain saw
>oil is a product from used motor oil, I assumed that this was the
>case. I also thought that this was one of the expressed advantages
>with chain saw oil, you remember the sticky thing. I am sorry if I
>went wrong on this point.
>
>You did not really explain this about "It will still poison the earth".
>At least not in a way that I understood. I thought that vegetable oil
>did disperse more naturally and easy than fossil oil.
>
>For paint, I thought that Titan is the most used mix, much for coloring
>reasons. We are favoring paint containing aluminium instead of
>Titan, mainly because of the large difference in emission factor and
>the 15-20% energy saving it can give in buildings. Not to talk about
>a higher sense of comfort.
>
>Hakan
>
>At 09:59 AM 9/2/2002 +1000, you wrote:
> >Oils in the environment must diperse to dissapear .
> >
> >No oil is healthy for ingestion but if you must use oil for cooking and
> >lubricating food stuffs ,olive oil is used because of higher
>polyunsaturates
> >. Mineral oil is highly saturated and not very healthy to intake .
> >
> >
> >There is no lead in any oils . These were added to  paints and fuels only .
> >
> >Regards Rod   0297954870
> >d:^)
> >
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: Hakan Falk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Sent: Monday, 2 September 2002 9:45 AM
> >To: Stalenberg, Rod
> >Subject: RE: [biofuel] Thanks Kieth
> >
> >
> >
> >Rod.
> >
> >Very interesting statement, if it is correct. Then many arguments for
> >vegetable oils will fall apart. I probably eat an equivalent concentration,
> >of
> >what is spread on the ground by cutting a tree, with my salad. I am using
> >olive oil and they say that it is good for my heart. I never tried motor
> >oil,
> >but if it is the same, at least it would be interesting to try.
> >
> >Then it is remarkable that Husqvarna  and other manufacturers of chain saws
> >recommend use of vegetable oil in Sweden. They have done so for the last
> >15+ years. If you look at a field of rape or sunflowers, you are saying
> >that it
> >is poisoning the world, I did not know that so please expand on this. The
> >same
> >can be said about many sources of vegetable oil. I know that Pine trees is
> >killing under vegetation with turpentine, but I did not know or have the
> >experience
> >that oil plants or trees did something similar. Since the concentration is
> >much
> >higher in the seed than the spill from a chain saw.
> >
> >One of the most serious poisoning from fossil oils, used for lubrication,
> >is the
> >content of Led. I did not know that we had the same problem with vegetable
> >oils.
> >It is removed from newer gasoline, but it needed newer engines. For
> >lubrication
> >oils it is still there, if I am not misinformed. Led is one of the most
> >poisoning
> >metals we have.
> >
> >I am not a great expert on this issues. Although I did well in physics and
> >biology,
> >chemistry was never a strong point. I am trying to learn from this board,
> >where
> >I find many that are good on chemistry. I have a good friend who not only
> >are
> >chemist but also is a specialist on nutrition. He is running a Spanish web
> >site on
> >this issues ( http://chemedia.com ) and I will ask him too.
> >
> >Looking forward to your response.
> >
> >Hakan
> >
> >At 08:49 AM 9/2/2002 +1000, you wrote:
> > >Vegetable oil is no more biodegradable than mineral in concentrated form
>.
> > >It will still poison the earth!
> > >
> > >The chain oil needs to have a tackifier in order to stick to blade
> >otherwise
&g

RE: [biofuel] Thanks Kieth

[Hakan Falk]

Sorry Rod,

I was told that used motor oil had Led in it and since chain saw
oil is a product from used motor oil, I assumed that this was the
case. I also thought that this was one of the expressed advantages
with chain saw oil, you remember the sticky thing. I am sorry if I
went wrong on this point.

You did not really explain this about "It will still poison the earth".
At least not in a way that I understood. I thought that vegetable oil
did disperse more naturally and easy than fossil oil.

For paint, I thought that Titan is the most used mix, much for coloring
reasons. We are favoring paint containing aluminium instead of
Titan, mainly because of the large difference in emission factor and
the 15-20% energy saving it can give in buildings. Not to talk about
a higher sense of comfort.

Hakan

At 09:59 AM 9/2/2002 +1000, you wrote:
>Oils in the environment must diperse to dissapear .
>
>No oil is healthy for ingestion but if you must use oil for cooking and
>lubricating food stuffs ,olive oil is used because of higher polyunsaturates
>. Mineral oil is highly saturated and not very healthy to intake .
>
>
>There is no lead in any oils . These were added to  paints and fuels only .
>
>Regards Rod   0297954870
>d:^)
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Hakan Falk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Monday, 2 September 2002 9:45 AM
>To: Stalenberg, Rod
>Subject: RE: [biofuel] Thanks Kieth
>
>
>
>Rod.
>
>Very interesting statement, if it is correct. Then many arguments for
>vegetable oils will fall apart. I probably eat an equivalent concentration,
>of
>what is spread on the ground by cutting a tree, with my salad. I am using
>olive oil and they say that it is good for my heart. I never tried motor
>oil,
>but if it is the same, at least it would be interesting to try.
>
>Then it is remarkable that Husqvarna  and other manufacturers of chain saws
>recommend use of vegetable oil in Sweden. They have done so for the last
>15+ years. If you look at a field of rape or sunflowers, you are saying
>that it
>is poisoning the world, I did not know that so please expand on this. The
>same
>can be said about many sources of vegetable oil. I know that Pine trees is
>killing under vegetation with turpentine, but I did not know or have the
>experience
>that oil plants or trees did something similar. Since the concentration is
>much
>higher in the seed than the spill from a chain saw.
>
>One of the most serious poisoning from fossil oils, used for lubrication,
>is the
>content of Led. I did not know that we had the same problem with vegetable
>oils.
>It is removed from newer gasoline, but it needed newer engines. For
>lubrication
>oils it is still there, if I am not misinformed. Led is one of the most
>poisoning
>metals we have.
>
>I am not a great expert on this issues. Although I did well in physics and
>biology,
>chemistry was never a strong point. I am trying to learn from this board,
>where
>I find many that are good on chemistry. I have a good friend who not only
>are
>chemist but also is a specialist on nutrition. He is running a Spanish web
>site on
>this issues ( http://chemedia.com ) and I will ask him too.
>
>Looking forward to your response.
>
>Hakan
>
>At 08:49 AM 9/2/2002 +1000, you wrote:
> >Vegetable oil is no more biodegradable than mineral in concentrated form .
> >It will still poison the earth!
> >
> >The chain oil needs to have a tackifier in order to stick to blade
>otherwise
> >you will use too much .If you cannot source such a polymer than commercial
> >chain oil will be more efficient and of lower consumption.
> >
> >
> >Regards Rod   0297954870
> >d:^)
> >
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: Hakan Falk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Sent: Friday, 30 August 2002 9:42 PM
> >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [biofuel] Thanks Kieth
> >
> >
> >
> >Apart from running 2-stroke engines on mix of ethanol/veg oil, the chain
> >saw is a different thing. For some decades now, I use veg oil for
> >lubricating
> >the saw blade. In Sweden, it is now a standard to do that and almost all
> >do it. When you buy a chain saw they recommend it now. From a pollution
> >point this is very important, since the blade lubrication goes directly to
> >the surrounding earth.
> >
> >Hakan
> >
> >At 05:57 PM 8/28/2002 +1000, you wrote:
> > >  great... thanks for the info Keith..Im going to give that one a try..
>Im
> > > trying to getaway from non-renewable fuel... so the biodesel and
> > > ethonol  mix i think i will work on. Thanks again!
> > >--
> > >
> >

Re: [biofuel] Thanks Kieth

[Neoteric Biofuels Inc.]

Canola/rapeseed it the better lubricant of the two. Various companies also
do Canola-based with additive packages to improve performance, winter and
summer grades, etc. They might make cleaning easier, too - or perhaps use
some biodiesel for cleanup, since it is also such a good lubricant.

Bar and Chain life and time between sharpenings are often claimed to be
greatly improved.

One interesting number I came across in researching this is for Canada, via
the "EcoLogo" web site (our environmental labeling organization here - the
'three doves" logo).

They say that about 6 kilotonnes of bar and chain oil are used each year in
Canada in logging - and that does not include all the small users
(homeowners, cottagers, farmers).

That all goes  onto the ground, into the water. Granted, it is dispersed,
but almost all of that is used motor oil that someone has taken the trouble
to take to a recycling depot (using fuel) - then it is trucked to a refinery
(using more fuel), refined and colored (using more energy), repackaged (more
plastic and energy), and then sent out to market (more fuel)


after all that, we allow a million or so worth of "oil changes" to be
done onto the forest floor all across the country, and the company doing the
selling sells the same product twice over and gets to call it an
eco-friendly solution because they are using used motor oil!

 New or used Canola or other vegoils would be a better strategy, with
additive package, if needed. A blend of mostly new oil would probably best
technically and give the greatest increase in bar and chain life (both on
chainsaws and tree harvesters)


Edward Beggs
http://www.biofuels.ca




on 8/30/02 10:04 AM, Hakan Falk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> 
> Ed is right, but many times I have bought sunflower oil in the food
> store and used it. I also use the manual feed button on the chain saw
> frequently to give it some extra cooling and lubrication. Do clean the
> blade carefully directly after use, which you always should do anyway.
> Veg oil do create some minor cleaning problems, if you let it cool down.
> 
> Hakan
> 
> 
> At 08:06 AM 8/30/2002 -0700, you wrote:
>> Canola or rapeseed (virtually the same in fuel and lubricant applications)
>> is what is normally used.
>> 
>> Edward Beggs
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> on 8/30/02 6:22 AM, Kim & Garth Travis at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> 
>>> Is there any particular kind of vegetable oil that is recommended?
>>> Thanks for the info, I will be changing over, immediately.
>>> Bright Blessings,
>>> Kim
>>> 
>>> Hakan Falk wrote:
>>> 
 
 Apart from running 2-stroke engines on mix of ethanol/veg oil, the chain
 saw is a different thing. For some decades now, I use veg oil for
 lubricating
 the saw blade. In Sweden, it is now a standard to do that and almost all
 do it. When you buy a chain saw they recommend it now. From a pollution
 point this is very important, since the blade lubrication goes directly to
 the surrounding earth.
 
 Hakan
 
 At 05:57 PM 8/28/2002 +1000, you wrote:
>  great... thanks for the info Keith..Im going to give that one a
 try.. Im
> trying to getaway from non-renewable fuel... so the biodesel and
> ethonol  mix i think i will work on. Thanks again!
> --
> 
> On Tue, 27 Aug 2002 15:47:49   Keith Addison wrote:
>>> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "bendo4000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 Im exploring the idea of ethonol conversions on my farm equipment. I
 have found many sites converting standard 4 stroke engines to
>>> ethanol.
 I was interested if anyone has had any luck converting 2 stroke
 lawnmowers , edgers, chainsaws, generators even 2 stroke trail
>>> bikes.
 I cant see any problems with the mix  according to a biodiesel
>>> mix
 you can combime ethanol and veg oil has anyone out there had any
 luck???
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]   any info would be much apreciated! even if its
 just a "it worked for me" thanks for ur trouble!
>>> 
>>> Can't help re. your ethanol query, however I have heard reports of
>>> people using biodiesel as two-stroke oil with gasoline (in chainsaws
>>> etc.)
>>> 
>>> Mike
>> 
>> We have had some reports of using biodiesel as 2-stroke oil. It's a
>> super lubricator and seems to work fine. Older engines might need a
>> higher mix ratio - one earlier message advised:
>> 
>> "Old two-stroke engines like yours usually have bronze wrist pin
 bearings
>> and thus require a richer oil mixture to adequately lube that bushing.
>> Incidentally in a two stroke you will often find the wrist pin
 bearing fails
>> first from poor lubrication (It is just much harder to get the oil
 into it!)
>>  I would recommend at least to stick with the 20-1 or even 15-1
 seeing as
>> biodiesel is a "thinner" oil than normal two-stroke oil. I 

Re: [biofuel] Thanks Kieth

[Hakan Falk]

Ed is right, but many times I have bought sunflower oil in the food
store and used it. I also use the manual feed button on the chain saw
frequently to give it some extra cooling and lubrication. Do clean the
blade carefully directly after use, which you always should do anyway.
Veg oil do create some minor cleaning problems, if you let it cool down.

Hakan


At 08:06 AM 8/30/2002 -0700, you wrote:
>Canola or rapeseed (virtually the same in fuel and lubricant applications)
>is what is normally used.
>
>Edward Beggs
>
>
>
>on 8/30/02 6:22 AM, Kim & Garth Travis at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > Is there any particular kind of vegetable oil that is recommended?
> > Thanks for the info, I will be changing over, immediately.
> > Bright Blessings,
> > Kim
> >
> > Hakan Falk wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Apart from running 2-stroke engines on mix of ethanol/veg oil, the chain
> >> saw is a different thing. For some decades now, I use veg oil for
> >> lubricating
> >> the saw blade. In Sweden, it is now a standard to do that and almost all
> >> do it. When you buy a chain saw they recommend it now. From a pollution
> >> point this is very important, since the blade lubrication goes directly to
> >> the surrounding earth.
> >>
> >> Hakan
> >>
> >> At 05:57 PM 8/28/2002 +1000, you wrote:
> >>>  great... thanks for the info Keith..Im going to give that one a
> >> try.. Im
> >>> trying to getaway from non-renewable fuel... so the biodesel and
> >>> ethonol  mix i think i will work on. Thanks again!
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, 27 Aug 2002 15:47:49   Keith Addison wrote:
> > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "bendo4000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> Im exploring the idea of ethonol conversions on my farm equipment. I
> >> have found many sites converting standard 4 stroke engines to
> > ethanol.
> >> I was interested if anyone has had any luck converting 2 stroke
> >> lawnmowers , edgers, chainsaws, generators even 2 stroke trail
> > bikes.
> >> I cant see any problems with the mix  according to a biodiesel
> > mix
> >> you can combime ethanol and veg oil has anyone out there had any
> >> luck???
> >>
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]   any info would be much apreciated! even if its
> >> just a "it worked for me" thanks for ur trouble!
> >
> > Can't help re. your ethanol query, however I have heard reports of
> > people using biodiesel as two-stroke oil with gasoline (in chainsaws
> > etc.)
> >
> > Mike
> 
>  We have had some reports of using biodiesel as 2-stroke oil. It's a
>  super lubricator and seems to work fine. Older engines might need a
>  higher mix ratio - one earlier message advised:
> 
>  "Old two-stroke engines like yours usually have bronze wrist pin
> >> bearings
>  and thus require a richer oil mixture to adequately lube that bushing.
>  Incidentally in a two stroke you will often find the wrist pin
> >> bearing fails
>  first from poor lubrication (It is just much harder to get the oil
> >> into it!)
>   I would recommend at least to stick with the 20-1 or even 15-1
> >> seeing as
>  biodiesel is a "thinner" oil than normal two-stroke oil. I have no
> >> idea what
>  effect bio-diesel would have on the octane of gasoline but it
> >> probably isn't
>  so important on old engines because they usually have a very low c/r
> >>> anyway."
> 
>  Actually it turns out biodiesel isn't thinner than standard 2-stroke
>  oil, or not by much.
> 
>  New engines need what, 50:1 or less? Try it and see, start with a
>  higher ratio than recommended for standard oil. At least one list
>  member uses biodiesel with his chain saw, no problems when last we
>  heard.
> 
>  You can mix vegetable oil with anhydrous ethanol, and 95% ethanol
>  will do as well, probably even 160-proof with such small amounts of
>  oil, and ethanol and biodiesel mix even better, stable mix, so you
>  should have no problems, no need for blending additives.
> 
>  Castor oil was the traditional 2-stroke lube, and it's still used in
>  racing I think. Expensive though. If I had a 2-stroke now I'd want to
>  be using ethanol and biodiesel. When I did have a 2-stroke I often
>  used fuel ethanol in it, no problem. No biodiesel then (that was 40
>  years ago).
> 
>  Best
> 
>  Keith
> 
> 
> 
>  Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>  http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> 
>  Biofuels list archives:
>  http://archive.nnytech.net/
> 
>  Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
>  To unsubscribe, send an email to:
>  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
>  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
> 
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail
> >>> account at http://www.eudoramail.com
> 

Re: [biofuel] Thanks Kieth

[Neoteric Biofuels Inc.]

Canola or rapeseed (virtually the same in fuel and lubricant applications)
is what is normally used.

Edward Beggs 



on 8/30/02 6:22 AM, Kim & Garth Travis at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Is there any particular kind of vegetable oil that is recommended?
> Thanks for the info, I will be changing over, immediately.
> Bright Blessings,
> Kim
> 
> Hakan Falk wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Apart from running 2-stroke engines on mix of ethanol/veg oil, the chain
>> saw is a different thing. For some decades now, I use veg oil for
>> lubricating
>> the saw blade. In Sweden, it is now a standard to do that and almost all
>> do it. When you buy a chain saw they recommend it now. From a pollution
>> point this is very important, since the blade lubrication goes directly to
>> the surrounding earth.
>> 
>> Hakan
>> 
>> At 05:57 PM 8/28/2002 +1000, you wrote:
>>>  great... thanks for the info Keith..Im going to give that one a
>> try.. Im
>>> trying to getaway from non-renewable fuel... so the biodesel and
>>> ethonol  mix i think i will work on. Thanks again!
>>> --
>>> 
>>> On Tue, 27 Aug 2002 15:47:49   Keith Addison wrote:
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "bendo4000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Im exploring the idea of ethonol conversions on my farm equipment. I
>> have found many sites converting standard 4 stroke engines to
> ethanol.
>> I was interested if anyone has had any luck converting 2 stroke
>> lawnmowers , edgers, chainsaws, generators even 2 stroke trail
> bikes.
>> I cant see any problems with the mix  according to a biodiesel
> mix
>> you can combime ethanol and veg oil has anyone out there had any
>> luck???
>> 
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]   any info would be much apreciated! even if its
>> just a "it worked for me" thanks for ur trouble!
> 
> Can't help re. your ethanol query, however I have heard reports of
> people using biodiesel as two-stroke oil with gasoline (in chainsaws
> etc.)
> 
> Mike
 
 We have had some reports of using biodiesel as 2-stroke oil. It's a
 super lubricator and seems to work fine. Older engines might need a
 higher mix ratio - one earlier message advised:
 
 "Old two-stroke engines like yours usually have bronze wrist pin
>> bearings
 and thus require a richer oil mixture to adequately lube that bushing.
 Incidentally in a two stroke you will often find the wrist pin
>> bearing fails
 first from poor lubrication (It is just much harder to get the oil
>> into it!)
  I would recommend at least to stick with the 20-1 or even 15-1
>> seeing as
 biodiesel is a "thinner" oil than normal two-stroke oil. I have no
>> idea what
 effect bio-diesel would have on the octane of gasoline but it
>> probably isn't
 so important on old engines because they usually have a very low c/r
>>> anyway."
 
 Actually it turns out biodiesel isn't thinner than standard 2-stroke
 oil, or not by much.
 
 New engines need what, 50:1 or less? Try it and see, start with a
 higher ratio than recommended for standard oil. At least one list
 member uses biodiesel with his chain saw, no problems when last we
 heard.
 
 You can mix vegetable oil with anhydrous ethanol, and 95% ethanol
 will do as well, probably even 160-proof with such small amounts of
 oil, and ethanol and biodiesel mix even better, stable mix, so you
 should have no problems, no need for blending additives.
 
 Castor oil was the traditional 2-stroke lube, and it's still used in
 racing I think. Expensive though. If I had a 2-stroke now I'd want to
 be using ethanol and biodiesel. When I did have a 2-stroke I often
 used fuel ethanol in it, no problem. No biodiesel then (that was 40
 years ago).
 
 Best
 
 Keith
 
 
 
 Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
 http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
 
 Biofuels list archives:
 http://archive.nnytech.net/
 
 Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
 To unsubscribe, send an email to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 
 
 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail
>>> account at http://www.eudoramail.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>>> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>>> 
>>> Biofuels list archives:
>>> http://archive.nnytech.net/
>>> 
>>> Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
>>> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> 
>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>> ADVERTISEMENT
>> > 9:HM/A=1189558/R=0/*http://www.bmgmusic.com/acq/ee/q6/enroll/mhn/9/>
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>> 
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Re: [biofuel] Thanks Kieth

[Kim & Garth Travis]

Is there any particular kind of vegetable oil that is recommended? 
Thanks for the info, I will be changing over, immediately.
Bright Blessings,
Kim

Hakan Falk wrote:

> 
> Apart from running 2-stroke engines on mix of ethanol/veg oil, the chain
> saw is a different thing. For some decades now, I use veg oil for 
> lubricating
> the saw blade. In Sweden, it is now a standard to do that and almost all
> do it. When you buy a chain saw they recommend it now. From a pollution
> point this is very important, since the blade lubrication goes directly to
> the surrounding earth.
> 
> Hakan
> 
> At 05:57 PM 8/28/2002 +1000, you wrote:
>  >  great... thanks for the info Keith..Im going to give that one a 
> try.. Im
>  > trying to getaway from non-renewable fuel... so the biodesel and
>  > ethonol  mix i think i will work on. Thanks again!
>  >--
>  >
>  >On Tue, 27 Aug 2002 15:47:49   Keith Addison wrote:
>  > >>--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "bendo4000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  > >> > Im exploring the idea of ethonol conversions on my farm equipment. I
>  > >> > have found many sites converting standard 4 stroke engines to
>  > >>ethanol.
>  > >> > I was interested if anyone has had any luck converting 2 stroke
>  > >> > lawnmowers , edgers, chainsaws, generators even 2 stroke trail
>  > >>bikes.
>  > >> > I cant see any problems with the mix  according to a biodiesel
>  > >>mix
>  > >> > you can combime ethanol and veg oil has anyone out there had any
>  > >> > luck???
>  > >> >
>  > >> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]   any info would be much apreciated! even if its
>  > >> > just a "it worked for me" thanks for ur trouble!
>  > >>
>  > >>Can't help re. your ethanol query, however I have heard reports of
>  > >>people using biodiesel as two-stroke oil with gasoline (in chainsaws
>  > >>etc.)
>  > >>
>  > >>Mike
>  > >
>  > >We have had some reports of using biodiesel as 2-stroke oil. It's a
>  > >super lubricator and seems to work fine. Older engines might need a
>  > >higher mix ratio - one earlier message advised:
>  > >
>  > >"Old two-stroke engines like yours usually have bronze wrist pin 
> bearings
>  > >and thus require a richer oil mixture to adequately lube that bushing.
>  > >Incidentally in a two stroke you will often find the wrist pin 
> bearing fails
>  > >first from poor lubrication (It is just much harder to get the oil 
> into it!)
>  > >  I would recommend at least to stick with the 20-1 or even 15-1 
> seeing as
>  > >biodiesel is a "thinner" oil than normal two-stroke oil. I have no 
> idea what
>  > >effect bio-diesel would have on the octane of gasoline but it 
> probably isn't
>  > >so important on old engines because they usually have a very low c/r
>  > anyway."
>  > >
>  > >Actually it turns out biodiesel isn't thinner than standard 2-stroke
>  > >oil, or not by much.
>  > >
>  > >New engines need what, 50:1 or less? Try it and see, start with a
>  > >higher ratio than recommended for standard oil. At least one list
>  > >member uses biodiesel with his chain saw, no problems when last we
>  > >heard.
>  > >
>  > >You can mix vegetable oil with anhydrous ethanol, and 95% ethanol
>  > >will do as well, probably even 160-proof with such small amounts of
>  > >oil, and ethanol and biodiesel mix even better, stable mix, so you
>  > >should have no problems, no need for blending additives.
>  > >
>  > >Castor oil was the traditional 2-stroke lube, and it's still used in
>  > >racing I think. Expensive though. If I had a 2-stroke now I'd want to
>  > >be using ethanol and biodiesel. When I did have a 2-stroke I often
>  > >used fuel ethanol in it, no problem. No biodiesel then (that was 40
>  > >years ago).
>  > >
>  > >Best
>  > >
>  > >Keith
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>  > >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>  > >
>  > >Biofuels list archives:
>  > >http://archive.nnytech.net/
>  > >
>  > >Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
>  > >To unsubscribe, send an email to:
>  > >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > >
>  > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  >
>  >
>  >Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail
>  >account at http://www.eudoramail.com
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>  >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>  >
>  >Biofuels list archives:
>  >http://archive.nnytech.net/
>  >
>  >Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
>  >To unsubscribe, send an email to:
>  >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  >
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> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
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> 
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> http://archive.nnytech.net/
> 
> Pleas

Re: [biofuel] Thanks Kieth

[Hakan Falk]

Apart from running 2-stroke engines on mix of ethanol/veg oil, the chain
saw is a different thing. For some decades now, I use veg oil for lubricating
the saw blade. In Sweden, it is now a standard to do that and almost all
do it. When you buy a chain saw they recommend it now. From a pollution
point this is very important, since the blade lubrication goes directly to
the surrounding earth.

Hakan

At 05:57 PM 8/28/2002 +1000, you wrote:
>  great... thanks for the info Keith..Im going to give that one a try.. Im 
> trying to getaway from non-renewable fuel... so the biodesel and 
> ethonol  mix i think i will work on. Thanks again!
>--
>
>On Tue, 27 Aug 2002 15:47:49   Keith Addison wrote:
> >>--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "bendo4000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> > Im exploring the idea of ethonol conversions on my farm equipment. I
> >> > have found many sites converting standard 4 stroke engines to
> >>ethanol.
> >> > I was interested if anyone has had any luck converting 2 stroke
> >> > lawnmowers , edgers, chainsaws, generators even 2 stroke trail
> >>bikes.
> >> > I cant see any problems with the mix  according to a biodiesel
> >>mix
> >> > you can combime ethanol and veg oil has anyone out there had any
> >> > luck???
> >> >
> >> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]   any info would be much apreciated! even if its
> >> > just a "it worked for me" thanks for ur trouble!
> >>
> >>Can't help re. your ethanol query, however I have heard reports of
> >>people using biodiesel as two-stroke oil with gasoline (in chainsaws
> >>etc.)
> >>
> >>Mike
> >
> >We have had some reports of using biodiesel as 2-stroke oil. It's a
> >super lubricator and seems to work fine. Older engines might need a
> >higher mix ratio - one earlier message advised:
> >
> >"Old two-stroke engines like yours usually have bronze wrist pin bearings
> >and thus require a richer oil mixture to adequately lube that bushing.
> >Incidentally in a two stroke you will often find the wrist pin bearing fails
> >first from poor lubrication (It is just much harder to get the oil into it!)
> >  I would recommend at least to stick with the 20-1 or even 15-1 seeing as
> >biodiesel is a "thinner" oil than normal two-stroke oil. I have no idea what
> >effect bio-diesel would have on the octane of gasoline but it probably isn't
> >so important on old engines because they usually have a very low c/r 
> anyway."
> >
> >Actually it turns out biodiesel isn't thinner than standard 2-stroke
> >oil, or not by much.
> >
> >New engines need what, 50:1 or less? Try it and see, start with a
> >higher ratio than recommended for standard oil. At least one list
> >member uses biodiesel with his chain saw, no problems when last we
> >heard.
> >
> >You can mix vegetable oil with anhydrous ethanol, and 95% ethanol
> >will do as well, probably even 160-proof with such small amounts of
> >oil, and ethanol and biodiesel mix even better, stable mix, so you
> >should have no problems, no need for blending additives.
> >
> >Castor oil was the traditional 2-stroke lube, and it's still used in
> >racing I think. Expensive though. If I had a 2-stroke now I'd want to
> >be using ethanol and biodiesel. When I did have a 2-stroke I often
> >used fuel ethanol in it, no problem. No biodiesel then (that was 40
> >years ago).
> >
> >Best
> >
> >Keith
> >
> >
> >
> >Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> >
> >Biofuels list archives:
> >http://archive.nnytech.net/
> >
> >Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
> >To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail 
>account at http://www.eudoramail.com
>
>
>
>Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
>Biofuels list archives:
>http://archive.nnytech.net/
>
>Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
>To unsubscribe, send an email to:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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