Re: [biofuels-biz] northern california biodiesel, and blue sun biodiesel
Thanks for the information. Seems like Blue Sun has considered and dealt with many of the regulatory hurdles if they indeed have real plans for these large capacity processing plants. Perhaps they could provide the model for others. Then again, if they are a for profit organization, they may not want to share the information for fear of competition. What of Pacific Biodiesel. They apparently are building plants, and have installed at least two, one in Hawaii, and one in Japan. They must have solved some of the regulatory problems as well, to put up a plant in the U.S. Are you a part of the group in Santa Rosa who plan to open a fueling station. This group got some good press in the Santa Cruz Sentinel about three weeks ago. Can't remember the name though. Is the class you teach available at other times than the one you wrote about? Mark F. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] northern california biodiesel, and blue sun biodiesel
Mark, large-scale biodiesel manufacturers have an easier time dealing with regulations than the little guys do. The hurdles I was pointing out are the ones that slow down development of small producer business and of coops- the big plants don't have these issues as much partly because they're being built by larger corporations with more money. It's not that there is regulation that keeps commercial biodiesel plants from going up here, it's more that biodiesel has great potential as a small business, and for the small producers to fill a unique role as small-scale decentralized energy supply, and yet since energy isn't a sphere of small business usually, there are many expensive hurdles to overcome before this is a reality in city areas for instance. I think Blue Sun falls into the big guys category- BUT I don't really know the business well and I don'tknow enough about them. and I;m not sure of statistics on what constitutes a small producer versus a big one- gallons output for instance. ANyway they have some serious investment going into this, and are importing chemists from gerrmany who've worked on similar projects I believe. Pacific is I believe also building a plant i n San Jose- WVO-sourced. They are, you'll be interested to know, supposedly staying away from doing any oil collections in santa cruz so as to leave it for all the homebrewers. So I've been told by an employee whose working on the collections end of it- hope it comes true. as far as santa rosa- I think you're thinking not of that place but of Ukiah, where Yokayo Biofuels operates. They are a biodiesel broker (they buy WVO derived biodiesel) who delivers to retail customers (ie sells them a drum of fuel and a FillRite pump) all over northern california. They also are trying to set up a gas station-style business in Ukiah selling biodiesel, and got a lot of favorable press last month. They are a great example of a small business doing a lot to bring biodiesel to their region- its made it available to thousands of people without having to convince a gas station owner to dedicate a tank (which is very hard to convince one to do due to the economics). I don't have other classes scheduled yet. Join Burnveggies list and you'll hear about any others coming up in this area.. mark At 08:06 AM 2/9/2003 -0800, you wrote: Thanks for the information. Seems like Blue Sun has considered and dealt with many of the regulatory hurdles if they indeed have real plans for these large capacity processing plants. Perhaps they could provide the model for others. Then again, if they are a for profit organization, they may not want to share the information for fear of competition. What of Pacific Biodiesel. They apparently are building plants, and have installed at least two, one in Hawaii, and one in Japan. They must have solved some of the regulatory problems as well, to put up a plant in the U.S. Are you a part of the group in Santa Rosa who plan to open a fueling station. This group got some good press in the Santa Cruz Sentinel about three weeks ago. Can't remember the name though. Is the class you teach available at other times than the one you wrote about? Mark F. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] northern california biodiesel, and blue sun biodiesel
Well? Sure, economies of scale can make a dif on afforability. But I haven't yet seen much in the way of any comprised list of regs that have to be met, or at least not in a public forum such as this. Now would be as good a time as any to make a short and long list and do a run down of how shadetree producers can achieve the exact same end result as commercial manufacturers. As this is an international forum there will be some differences from state to state. But the commercial principals and the environmental principles remain relatively static throughout. So for starters? What about lined pipe in earthquake prone areas? What about annual tank inspections and fees, whether under pressure or not? What about the 110% impervious containment for fluids by US EPA standard? Double walled tanks vs. dikes? Methanol storage in bulk vs. 55 gallon drums? Closed loop vapor containment? Alcohol, caustic and FFA recovery? Wastewater treatment? Time to make a top 40 list for homebrewers. There's no reason to not. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: girl mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 12:55 PM Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] northern california biodiesel, and blue sun biodiesel Mark, large-scale biodiesel manufacturers have an easier time dealing with regulations than the little guys do. The hurdles I was pointing out are the ones that slow down development of small producer business and of coops- the big plants don't have these issues as much partly because they're being built by larger corporations with more money. It's not that there is regulation that keeps commercial biodiesel plants from going up here, it's more that biodiesel has great potential as a small business, and for the small producers to fill a unique role as small-scale decentralized energy supply, and yet since energy isn't a sphere of small business usually, there are many expensive hurdles to overcome before this is a reality in city areas for instance. I think Blue Sun falls into the big guys category- BUT I don't really know the business well and I don'tknow enough about them. and I;m not sure of statistics on what constitutes a small producer versus a big one- gallons output for instance. ANyway they have some serious investment going into this, and are importing chemists from gerrmany who've worked on similar projects I believe. Pacific is I believe also building a plant i n San Jose- WVO-sourced. They are, you'll be interested to know, supposedly staying away from doing any oil collections in santa cruz so as to leave it for all the homebrewers. So I've been told by an employee whose working on the collections end of it- hope it comes true. as far as santa rosa- I think you're thinking not of that place but of Ukiah, where Yokayo Biofuels operates. They are a biodiesel broker (they buy WVO derived biodiesel) who delivers to retail customers (ie sells them a drum of fuel and a FillRite pump) all over northern california. They also are trying to set up a gas station-style business in Ukiah selling biodiesel, and got a lot of favorable press last month. They are a great example of a small business doing a lot to bring biodiesel to their region- its made it available to thousands of people without having to convince a gas station owner to dedicate a tank (which is very hard to convince one to do due to the economics). I don't have other classes scheduled yet. Join Burnveggies list and you'll hear about any others coming up in this area.. mark At 08:06 AM 2/9/2003 -0800, you wrote: Thanks for the information. Seems like Blue Sun has considered and dealt with many of the regulatory hurdles if they indeed have real plans for these large capacity processing plants. Perhaps they could provide the model for others. Then again, if they are a for profit organization, they may not want to share the information for fear of competition. What of Pacific Biodiesel. They apparently are building plants, and have installed at least two, one in Hawaii, and one in Japan. They must have solved some of the regulatory problems as well, to put up a plant in the U.S. Are you a part of the group in Santa Rosa who plan to open a fueling station. This group got some good press in the Santa Cruz Sentinel about three weeks ago. Can't remember the name though. Is the class you teach available at other times than the one you wrote about? Mark F. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http
Re: [biofuels-biz] northern california biodiesel, and blue sun biodiesel
of any of this translating into regulation against homebrewers in particular. As I have often noted also, there are differences between homebrewers and small producers as well. Both manage to operate safely but the idea of homebrewers scares people not used to the idea... The regulations that are in place now that affect homebrewers handling small amounts of chemicals are not unreasonable (though they can be expensive to comply with for a small business handling larger amounts of chemicals). It is important to note the difference- if you start a business or a legal coop it's a different picture than if you're making fuel in a 30 gallon former water heater in your back yard. The story about the other coop's issues with their bulk fuel tank referred to a tank of a few hundred gallons capacity- something that differs from one kind of zoning to another. As often is the case there are less regulations in areas with agricultural zoning than in cities (where so many of us are trying to start coops) It would be easy for a process like this (gathering info and coming up with voluntary safety suggestions) to be hijacked by the paranoid or misinformed, especially those in a local government capacity. Mark At 11:53 PM 2/9/2003 -0500, you wrote: Well? Sure, economies of scale can make a dif on afforability. But I haven't yet seen much in the way of any comprised list of regs that have to be met, or at least not in a public forum such as this. Now would be as good a time as any to make a short and long list and do a run down of how shadetree producers can achieve the exact same end result as commercial manufacturers. As this is an international forum there will be some differences from state to state. But the commercial principals and the environmental principles remain relatively static throughout. So for starters? What about lined pipe in earthquake prone areas? What about annual tank inspections and fees, whether under pressure or not? What about the 110% impervious containment for fluids by US EPA standard? Double walled tanks vs. dikes? Methanol storage in bulk vs. 55 gallon drums? Closed loop vapor containment? Alcohol, caustic and FFA recovery? Wastewater treatment? Time to make a top 40 list for homebrewers. There's no reason to not. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: girl mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 12:55 PM Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] northern california biodiesel, and blue sun biodiesel Mark, large-scale biodiesel manufacturers have an easier time dealing with regulations than the little guys do. The hurdles I was pointing out are the ones that slow down development of small producer business and of coops- the big plants don't have these issues as much partly because they're being built by larger corporations with more money. It's not that there is regulation that keeps commercial biodiesel plants from going up here, it's more that biodiesel has great potential as a small business, and for the small producers to fill a unique role as small-scale decentralized energy supply, and yet since energy isn't a sphere of small business usually, there are many expensive hurdles to overcome before this is a reality in city areas for instance. I think Blue Sun falls into the big guys category- BUT I don't really know the business well and I don'tknow enough about them. and I;m not sure of statistics on what constitutes a small producer versus a big one- gallons output for instance. ANyway they have some serious investment going into this, and are importing chemists from gerrmany who've worked on similar projects I believe. Pacific is I believe also building a plant i n San Jose- WVO-sourced. They are, you'll be interested to know, supposedly staying away from doing any oil collections in santa cruz so as to leave it for all the homebrewers. So I've been told by an employee whose working on the collections end of it- hope it comes true. as far as santa rosa- I think you're thinking not of that place but of Ukiah, where Yokayo Biofuels operates. They are a biodiesel broker (they buy WVO derived biodiesel) who delivers to retail customers (ie sells them a drum of fuel and a FillRite pump) all over northern california. They also are trying to set up a gas station-style business in Ukiah selling biodiesel, and got a lot of favorable press last month. They are a great example of a small business doing a lot to bring biodiesel to their region- its made it available to thousands of people without having to convince a gas station owner to dedicate a tank (which is very hard to convince one to do due to the economics). I don't have other classes scheduled yet. Join Burnveggies list and you'll hear about any others coming up in this area.. mark At 08:06 AM 2/9/2003 -0800, you wrote: Thanks for the information. Seems like Blue Sun has
