Re: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re [Biofuel] "Let Them Eat Rocket Fuel"John Guttridge
Hello Keith, I used the words of the same author that Bob Allen and Hakan used to have their say with me! Gosh, I guess that it can get out of hand so quickly! I wasn't demeaning the list but, it seems to me that you and several others have taken great offense. Just as I had by Mr. Guttridge's comment! Was this enough ? Sincerly, Kim - Original Message Follows - > > Hello Kim > > Hmm... > > >Keith, I'm sorry to see that you take my response using > "jk >gasbag" at his word ! > > You said it. > > >I'm just wondering if you in turn have > >written to others about the continued rundown of anyone > who >has a basic belief in GOD JESUS, United States of > America >Etc ? > > Huh? What are you talking about? My message to you was > about your sneering at the freedom of discussion on this > list, nothing else, it's not possible to read anything > else into it because nothing else is there. Yet that is > what you've done. I think you have a problem. > > This is what I said to you - it's below, though you cut > it: I reinstated it, but I think I'd better put it above > too: > > >>>Bob & Hakan, "Much literary criticism comes from people > for >>>whom extreme specialization is a cover for either > grave >>>cerebal inadequacy or terminal laziness, the > latter being a >>>much cherished aspect of academic > freedom. JKG Thanks for >>>your reply, Kim > >> > >>What's that supposed to mean, Kim? There is freedom of > discussion >>at this list, it's something that has been > established, built and >>maintained over five years, and > many of us set great store by it. >>Are you saying that > it's just terminal laziness, a cherished aspect >>of > academic freedom??? Because that it sure as hell isn't, > other >>than "cherished" perhaps. There's nothing merely > academic about it, >>and it's the very opposite of > laziness - it's rigorous, as it has >>to be else it would > quickly succumb to the lowest common >>denominator, which > has happened elsewhere, but not here. Kindly >>explain > yourself. > > Hakan had said this: > > >>> > Since we many times enjoyed the freedom of > discussion, I >>> > guess that we have to accept this kind > of voodoo also. > > And you sneered at it. That's what my message to you was > about, and that's ALL it was about. It has NOTHING to do > with your "continued rundown of anyone who has a basic > belief in GOD JESUS, United States of America, etc", > which is in the eye of the beholder and nowhere else - > not in my message to you and certainly not in the > archives. > > Dave Shaw is an American, and he just wrote this: > > >Thank you Keith for reassuring all that we are welcome. I > have certainly >been guilty of reacting to statements that > I read as anti-American, only >to reread the further and > find that the statement was of different >intent. It was I > who was reading anti-American sentiments. How funny. >This > is another important lesson that has been learned over the > years, >and I largely credit this list for speeding up > that learning process. > > I've just written this: > > >I don't think the system in the US is a good reflection > of who you >are as a people, you're much better than your > system, and I think >most people sense that in > differentiating between Americans and >Washington. > > And this, the day before: > > >Still, as I've said here a few times before, despite > various foolish >accusations of America-bashing and > America hating (baseless >slander), I still look to > Americans to lead the way in countering >this, and to > take their country back. I'm sure I'm not alone here in > >thinking this way. Many of the most tireless and > effective >campaigners are indeed Americans, in this as > in many other most >pressing issues challenging the world > today. In spite of everything, >it's MUCH too soon to > write them off as a lost cause. Washington, >now... well, > that's another matter. > > If you can't see the difference, that's your problem > (another one). There is no America-bashing here. There is > CERTAINLY no Jesus-bashing here! Good grief! > > >When I arrived here I was under the auspice that I was > >fortunate enough to find a forum that won't have the > typical >retrograde stances that you state that this forum > shouldn't >have. My first day here I was treated to some > amazing >bashing of America ! > > Nonsense. See the quote from Dave Shaw again: he can see > it, you can't. Why are you being blind? Shouldn't you ask > yourself that? > > >I know that my country is a mess (look > >at my first posting about "fuel" and look at my opinion > >about the leadership)! > > Unless I'm much mistaken, your first post here was about a > Briquette press, your second was about Luc's processor, > and your third about abortions. > > >SO GET OVER IT AND LET'S TALK ABOUT > >WHAT THIS IS SUPPOSTED TO BE !? > > Uh, you mean "What's all this off-topic political crap got > to do with biofuels?" LOL! > > Please
Re: Fwd: Re [Biofuel] "Let Them Eat Rocket Fuel"John Guttridge
Robert, This is interesting. I think that this is what really gets me about Christianity in general is the feeling that I am being pushed to repent for something that I do not believe to be sinful. as you point out here it is often the case that I am not being pushed into anything. I also frequently feel like I am being judged for my beliefs, (this man is a mirror) probably as I judge others I presume they must also judge me. I have a similar problem. However, I think it was Plato who wrote: "The unexamined life is not worth living." If "man is the measure of all things" (Protagorus, right?), your comment about the reflection of yourself in others is interesting. there are a few other details though that I can't let fly, but they are not indemic to Christianity (homophobia and other forms of intolerance are an example) but are frequent symptoms so one tends to form an association. probably not fair, I apologize for pigeonholing. You were not the one who raised my hackles. I understand what you're saying about intolerance. With respect to the John Guttridge article, why is this the john guttridge article? I didn't write it, someone misinterpreted my comments about hypocrisy. whatever :) It's the "John Guttridge" article because your name appears in the thread's header. I didn't intend to imply that you'd written the article, only that you'd posted it. I've done a pretty poor job of communicating here in the last day or so. I have to say that having a respectful conversation with someone who you disagree strongly with can be trying at times. the problem is that when the egos start to get involved people stop talking about what their words are about and very little gets accomplished. this tends to be a trap one falls into when they feel something that they care about deeply is being questioned, especially if it is something that they have some question about themselves. Well stated, sir. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=9782> Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re [Biofuel] "Let Them Eat Rocket Fuel"John Guttridge
Keith, I'm sorry to see that you take my response using "jk gasbag" at his word ! I'm just wondering if you in turn have written to others about the continued rundown of anyone who has a basic belief in GOD JESUS, United States of America Etc ? Nobody runs me down. I believe Jesus IS God, and I'm an American. This is a diverse list and we have NO topic police here. I believe you are misunderstanding what other people have written. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=9782> Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Re: Fwd: Re [Biofuel] "Let Them Eat Rocket Fuel"John Guttridge
Just kidding. It's only the clique phrase "get over it" that's become so synonymous with republicans and their myopias that might give any hint as to what cloth you're persuasion is cut from. Well, that and the excessive use of caps in proper names. That should be God with one cap and Jesus with another. Either the cap lock on your keyboard got stuck or you're screaming. FYI, some of us who once thumped the bible heavily have found that the best use for it these days is to thump (to be read "whallup hard") on the heads of those who would try and cram their beliefs down the throats of others. I don't remember the chapter or verse where Jesus accosted anyone with the intent to force feed them until they either aspirated or capitulated. As for US of A bashing? Some of us are just sick and tired of seeing a country (supposedly "our" country) stumble around arrogantly while its trousers are wrapped around its ankles. You'd think that even a republican "leadership" (said with tongue in cheek) would know that. Then again, I guess not. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 1:55 PM Subject: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re [Biofuel] "Let Them Eat Rocket Fuel"John Guttridge Keith, I'm sorry to see that you take my response using "jk gasbag" at his word ! I'm just wondering if you in turn have written to others about the continued rundown of anyone who has a basic belief in GOD JESUS, United States of America Etc ? When I arrived here I was under the auspice that I was fortunate enough to find a forum that won't have the typical retrograde stances that you state that this forum shouldn't have. My first day here I was treated to some amazing bashing of America ! I know that my country is a mess (look at my first posting about "fuel" and look at my opinion about the leadership)! SO GET OVER IT AND LET'S TALK ABOUT WHAT THIS IS SUPPOSTED TO BE !? When I gave you my interest in this forum I thought that you stated that it would be really good to stick to the biofuel interests in the forum perimeters ? I can go to hundreds of websites that are great to vent whatever ! But, I won't sit by anymore and let people throw out platant all encompassing trash about something (right to life) that didn't need to be here. If this is unacceptable to you and the rest of the forum than I apologize(I apologize if it is acceptable or not) for my having the nerve to write my feelings. Thank you for your time and consideration, Kim Wilde someone who uses my delete button constantly. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Fwd: Re [Biofuel] "Let Them Eat Rocket Fuel"John Guttridge
Ooops, Peter, This is a circular argument in, as many says i US, a Catch 22 situation. LOL Hakan At 03:08 AM 2/4/2005, you wrote: Hi Luc ; > > there are a few other details though that I can't > let fly, but they are > > not indemic to Christianity (homophobia and other > forms of intolerance are > > an example) What amazes me is how intolerant the people preaching tolerance are to anyone who is intolerant. Best Regards, Peter G. Thailand ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Fwd: Re [Biofuel] "Let Them Eat Rocket Fuel"John Guttridge
Hi Luc ; > > there are a few other details though that I can't > let fly, but they are > > not indemic to Christianity (homophobia and other > forms of intolerance are > > an example) What amazes me is how intolerant the people preaching tolerance are to anyone who is intolerant. Best Regards, Peter G. Thailand __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Fwd: Re [Biofuel] "Let Them Eat Rocket Fuel"John Guttridge
Here's a interesting summary for you. You are a free moral agent, the way you were created, whether or not you belive that, and you and you alone can make decisions that you will have to live with, no one else can make or push you into making. There are those of us here that are Christians, and, regardless of whether or not you like it, we are not ashamed of that belief, nor should we be. On the same side of the same coin there are also others here who do not adhere to the basic Christian belief system, and if the only example is the neo-con American style of it, it is most understandable, however that does not hinder us from conducting a useful and meaningful dialogue that brings us all closer in our chosen ventures. Most animosity that comes from an experience with someone in the Christian faith is that these same do not understand the devine principple of the Majesty of Choice and to simply live within the rhelm of those who have exercised that majesty letting things go at that. You don't believe what I do? So what, that is your right. It is also my right to believe it without denigration or condesention. I have much more issue with the neo-con so-called zionist christian than I do with someone who has, of his/her free will, chosen a religious (and everyone has one, it only remains to define what that form of worship is) avenue that is different to mine. i personally find more in common with true Islamic Muslims than I do with so-called American style neo-con so-called christian, however both groups have their problems with misinterpretation of what their respective "Holy Books" say. Some out of ignorance, others out of a pre-determined agenda. Be definition a "phobia" is : an exaggerated usually inexplicable and illogical fear of a particular object, class of objects, or situation - Webter's Dictionary. I do not have a "phobia" about homosexuallity, I merely believe that it is repulsive. I do not fear it, I disdain it, there is a difference. Spiders are another matter, I am arachnaphobic, to a point :-) Move too fast, too often, creepy ... and in Australia HUGE ! Homosexuals, just like the rest of humanity, have utilised their God-given (yes, in the way I see it) Majesty of Choice and have adopted that way of life. Whatever. Fine, just don't expect me to adhere to it, encourage it, agree to it ect. It repulses me, simple, but then that is me and I have exercised my own Majesty of Choice to get there. Do I refuse to have conversations with people I know are homosexual ? No. I said it before, I am in no phobia/fear of their choices.I do not have to answer for it, I answer for myself, as do we all. There is no group accountability, there is only individual responsibility. And the same is said of any position in life. You choose to commit "sin", you answer for it. Almost every legal system in the world opperates on this principle, to a differing success rate. All that to say this; you and you alone are responsible for the choices you make, no one else. Luc - Original Message - From: "John Guttridge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 2:26 PM Subject: Re: Fwd: Re [Biofuel] "Let Them Eat Rocket Fuel"John Guttridge Robert, Robert Luis Rabello wrote: Who is trying to proselytize you, sir? I've not read a single message in this forum urging you to repent of your sins, or repudiate your atheism. Perhaps that's what you believe we're trying to do; further illustrating my point that "reality" absolutely depends on the perspective of the individual. This is interesting. I think that this is what really gets me about Christianity in general is the feeling that I am being pushed to repent for something that I do not believe to be sinful. as you point out here it is often the case that I am not being pushed into anything. I also frequently feel like I am being judged for my beliefs, (this man is a mirror) probably as I judge others I presume they must also judge me. there are a few other details though that I can't let fly, but they are not indemic to Christianity (homophobia and other forms of intolerance are an example) but are frequent symptoms so one tends to form an association. probably not fair, I apologize for pigeonholing. With respect to the John Guttridge article, why is this the john guttridge article? I didn't write it, someone misinterpreted my comments about hypocrisy. whatever :) my belief in God inspires a sense of stewardship over his creation. This is what motivates my interest in environmental causes, and it's perfectly acceptable that you don't agree with my understanding. You and I can arrive at the same conclusion from different points of view; a strengthening influence for both of us. I have to say that having a res
Re: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re [Biofuel] "Let Them Eat Rocket Fuel"John Guttridge
Kim, This list has members from over 100 countries, as Keith often like to point out. It probably also have members from at least 3 basic religions and numerous variations of them. The only ones who repeatedly involve as superior credentials their country and Christianity as some superior religion, are the Americans. No wonder that they are challenged on both accounts and this especially with the foreign policies that their country stands for. Their country that officially have freedom of speech and freedom of religion, prove from time to time how little it means for some Americans. The only thing Bob actually did, was to tell you that as arguments, your personal basic Christian beliefs was completely irrelevant and you were intimidating and that this did not work on him. I also told you that this did not work on me either. Since this was your only arguments for the case you brought forward, please try to find some more relevant ones. If you search for a Christian forum or want to make us to be Christians, your are in the wrong place. Your references to religion and nationality, make you more of a Sandwich woman, than somebody with reasonable arguments. If you wanted to discuss right of life, then do that and also remember that you are living in one of the few countries that belive in the basic right of taking life. You also have the rights to have feelings and express them, it is also others right to have feelings about what you are saying and express them. It was said that somebody had a lack of respect, I cannot really judge which one. Hakan At 07:55 PM 2/3/2005, you wrote: Keith, I'm sorry to see that you take my response using "jk gasbag" at his word ! I'm just wondering if you in turn have written to others about the continued rundown of anyone who has a basic belief in GOD JESUS, United States of America Etc ? When I arrived here I was under the auspice that I was fortunate enough to find a forum that won't have the typical retrograde stances that you state that this forum shouldn't have. My first day here I was treated to some amazing bashing of America ! I know that my country is a mess (look at my first posting about "fuel" and look at my opinion about the leadership)! SO GET OVER IT AND LET'S TALK ABOUT WHAT THIS IS SUPPOSTED TO BE !? When I gave you my interest in this forum I thought that you stated that it would be really good to stick to the biofuel interests in the forum perimeters ? I can go to hundreds of websites that are great to vent whatever ! But, I won't sit by anymore and let people throw out platant all encompassing trash about something (right to life) that didn't need to be here. If this is unacceptable to you and the rest of the forum than I apologize(I apologize if it is acceptable or not) for my having the nerve to write my feelings. Thank you for your time and consideration, Kim Wilde someone who uses my delete button constantly. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re [Biofuel] "Let Them Eat Rocket Fuel"John Guttridge
Hmm... Keith, I'm sorry to see that you take my response using "jk gasbag" at his word ! You said it. I'm just wondering if you in turn have written to others about the continued rundown of anyone who has a basic belief in GOD JESUS, United States of America Etc ? Huh? What are you talking about? My message to you was about your sneering at the freedom of discussion on this list, nothing else, it's not possible to read anything else into it because nothing else is there. Yet that is what you've done. I think you have a problem. This is what I said to you - it's below, though you cut it: I reinstated it, but I think I'd better put it above too: Bob & Hakan, "Much literary criticism comes from people for whom extreme specialization is a cover for either grave cerebal inadequacy or terminal laziness, the latter being a much cherished aspect of academic freedom. JKG Thanks for your reply, Kim What's that supposed to mean, Kim? There is freedom of discussion at this list, it's something that has been established, built and maintained over five years, and many of us set great store by it. Are you saying that it's just terminal laziness, a cherished aspect of academic freedom??? Because that it sure as hell isn't, other than "cherished" perhaps. There's nothing merely academic about it, and it's the very opposite of laziness - it's rigorous, as it has to be else it would quickly succumb to the lowest common denominator, which has happened elsewhere, but not here. Kindly explain yourself. Hakan had said this: > Since we many times enjoyed the freedom of discussion, I > guess that we have to accept this kind of voodoo also. And you sneered at it. That's what my message to you was about, and that's ALL it was about. It has NOTHING to do with your "continued rundown of anyone who has a basic belief in GOD JESUS, United States of America, etc", which is in the eye of the beholder and nowhere else - not in my message to you and certainly not in the archives. Dave Shaw is an American, and he just wrote this: Thank you Keith for reassuring all that we are welcome. I have certainly been guilty of reacting to statements that I read as anti-American, only to reread the further and find that the statement was of different intent. It was I who was reading anti-American sentiments. How funny. This is another important lesson that has been learned over the years, and I largely credit this list for speeding up that learning process. I've just written this: I don't think the system in the US is a good reflection of who you are as a people, you're much better than your system, and I think most people sense that in differentiating between Americans and Washington. And this, the day before: Still, as I've said here a few times before, despite various foolish accusations of America-bashing and America hating (baseless slander), I still look to Americans to lead the way in countering this, and to take their country back. I'm sure I'm not alone here in thinking this way. Many of the most tireless and effective campaigners are indeed Americans, in this as in many other most pressing issues challenging the world today. In spite of everything, it's MUCH too soon to write them off as a lost cause. Washington, now... well, that's another matter. If you can't see the difference, that's your problem (another one). There is no America-bashing here. There is CERTAINLY no Jesus-bashing here! Good grief! When I arrived here I was under the auspice that I was fortunate enough to find a forum that won't have the typical retrograde stances that you state that this forum shouldn't have. My first day here I was treated to some amazing bashing of America ! Nonsense. See the quote from Dave Shaw again: he can see it, you can't. Why are you being blind? Shouldn't you ask yourself that? I know that my country is a mess (look at my first posting about "fuel" and look at my opinion about the leadership)! Unless I'm much mistaken, your first post here was about a Briquette press, your second was about Luc's processor, and your third about abortions. SO GET OVER IT AND LET'S TALK ABOUT WHAT THIS IS SUPPOSTED TO BE !? Uh, you mean "What's all this off-topic political crap got to do with biofuels?" LOL! Please see these previous messages (there are others), and refer to the links posted there: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/36185/ http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/36920/ Also see the List rules about "Rights and obligations" and "Open discussion", and the "Note" at the end. Please DO do that. When I gave you my interest in this forum I thought that you stated that it would be really good to stick to the biofuel interests in the forum perimeters ? I said that? Nope. Tell me where I said that - give me the exact quote and the reference, please. Don't ignore this: tell me where I said that. I can go to hundreds of websites that are great to vent whate
Re: Fwd: Re [Biofuel] "Let Them Eat Rocket Fuel"John Guttridge
Robert Luis Rabello wrote: Who is trying to proselytize you, sir? I've not read a single message in this forum urging you to repent of your sins, or repudiate your atheism. Perhaps that's what you believe we're trying to do; further illustrating my point that "reality" absolutely depends on the perspective of the individual. This is interesting. I think that this is what really gets me about Christianity in general is the feeling that I am being pushed to repent for something that I do not believe to be sinful. as you point out here it is often the case that I am not being pushed into anything. I also frequently feel like I am being judged for my beliefs, (this man is a mirror) probably as I judge others I presume they must also judge me. there are a few other details though that I can't let fly, but they are not indemic to Christianity (homophobia and other forms of intolerance are an example) but are frequent symptoms so one tends to form an association. probably not fair, I apologize for pigeonholing. With respect to the John Guttridge article, why is this the john guttridge article? I didn't write it, someone misinterpreted my comments about hypocrisy. whatever :) my belief in God inspires a sense of stewardship over his creation. This is what motivates my interest in environmental causes, and it's perfectly acceptable that you don't agree with my understanding. You and I can arrive at the same conclusion from different points of view; a strengthening influence for both of us. I have to say that having a respectful conversation with someone who you disagree strongly with can be trying at times. the problem is that when the egos start to get involved people stop talking about what their words are about and very little gets accomplished. this tends to be a trap one falls into when they feel something that they care about deeply is being questioned, especially if it is something that they have some question about themselves. Joy, Peace, and Respect, John Guttridge ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re [Biofuel] "Let Them Eat Rocket Fuel"John Guttridge
Keith, I'm sorry to see that you take my response using "jk gasbag" at his word ! I'm just wondering if you in turn have written to others about the continued rundown of anyone who has a basic belief in GOD JESUS, United States of America Etc ? When I arrived here I was under the auspice that I was fortunate enough to find a forum that won't have the typical retrograde stances that you state that this forum shouldn't have. My first day here I was treated to some amazing bashing of America ! I know that my country is a mess (look at my first posting about "fuel" and look at my opinion about the leadership)! SO GET OVER IT AND LET'S TALK ABOUT WHAT THIS IS SUPPOSTED TO BE !? When I gave you my interest in this forum I thought that you stated that it would be really good to stick to the biofuel interests in the forum perimeters ? I can go to hundreds of websites that are great to vent whatever ! But, I won't sit by anymore and let people throw out platant all encompassing trash about something (right to life) that didn't need to be here. If this is unacceptable to you and the rest of the forum than I apologize(I apologize if it is acceptable or not) for my having the nerve to write my feelings. Thank you for your time and consideration, Kim Wilde someone who uses my delete button constantly. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Fwd: Re [Biofuel] "Let Them Eat Rocket Fuel"John Guttridge
perspective? Or at least an animist or two? For one thing: The term Voodoo (Vodun in Benin; also Vodou or other phonetically equivalent spellings in Haiti; Vudu in the Dominican Republic) is applied to the branches of a West African ancestor-based religious tradition with primary roots among the Fon-Ewe peoples of West Africa, in the country now known as Benin, formerly the Kingdom of Dahomey, where Vodun is today the national religion of more than 7 million people. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vodun So if you're going to show some respect, please be even-handed about it. On the other hand, Bob, I have to agree with your sig: "Born just fine the first time." You used to have a Zappa quote in that sig, didn't you? Been listening to "You are what you is" recently? :-) Regards Keith bob allen wrote: And Howdy to you too Luc, Actually I feel my position is much more respectful than a lot of the theists out there. You aren't outright rude, but respectful is not a word I would use to characterize your posts. If a person wants to believe in the supernatural that is his or her business. but how does that help us in our discussions? The problem with the suspension of reality is it goes no where. But that all depends on the paradigm through which you view reality. If my perspective seems as silly to you as does yours to me, then we can agree to disagree. The discussion is furthered when we arrive at a greater understanding of one another. Summarily dismissing a belief in God as "voodoo" certainly does not aid in sharpening anyone's mind. >Anything is possible, nothing is possible. In the future I will try to restrain myself , but I reserve the right to take a swipe at the proselytizers once in awhile. :0) Who is trying to proselytize you, sir? I've not read a single message in this forum urging you to repent of your sins, or repudiate your atheism. Perhaps that's what you believe we're trying to do; further illustrating my point that "reality" absolutely depends on the perspective of the individual. If you think this is happening, I beg to differ. The only action I have witnessed from you around here is the exercise of your "right' to "take a swipe" at people you think are proselytizers. With respect to the John Guttridge article, my belief in God inspires a sense of stewardship over his creation. This is what motivates my interest in environmental causes, and it's perfectly acceptable that you don't agree with my understanding. You and I can arrive at the same conclusion from different points of view; a strengthening influence for both of us. If you can't comprehend this, then why participate in the discourse at all? robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=9782> Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Fwd: Re [Biofuel] "Let Them Eat Rocket Fuel"John Guttridge
And Howdy to you too Luc, Actually I feel my position is much more respectful than a lot of the theists out there. You aren't outright rude, but respectful is not a word I would use to characterize your posts. If a person wants to believe in the supernatural that is his or her business. but how does that help us in our discussions? The problem with the suspension of reality is it goes no where. But that all depends on the paradigm through which you view reality. If my perspective seems as silly to you as does yours to me, then we can agree to disagree. The discussion is furthered when we arrive at a greater understanding of one another. Summarily dismissing a belief in God as "voodoo" certainly does not aid in sharpening anyone's mind. >Anything is possible, nothing is possible. In the future I will try to restrain myself , but I reserve the right to take a swipe at the proselytizers once in awhile. :0) Who is trying to proselytize you, sir? I've not read a single message in this forum urging you to repent of your sins, or repudiate your atheism. Perhaps that's what you believe we're trying to do; further illustrating my point that "reality" absolutely depends on the perspective of the individual. If you think this is happening, I beg to differ. The only action I have witnessed from you around here is the exercise of your "right' to "take a swipe" at people you think are proselytizers. With respect to the John Guttridge article, my belief in God inspires a sense of stewardship over his creation. This is what motivates my interest in environmental causes, and it's perfectly acceptable that you don't agree with my understanding. You and I can arrive at the same conclusion from different points of view; a strengthening influence for both of us. If you can't comprehend this, then why participate in the discourse at all? robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=9782> Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Fwd: Re [Biofuel] "Let Them Eat Rocket Fuel"John Guttridge
respectful than a lot of the theists out there. I bet that a keyword search on god with a capital G comes up a whole lot more than voodoo. If a person wants to believe in the supernatural that is his or her business. but how does that help us in our discussions? The problem with the suspension of reality is it goes no where. Anything is possible, nothing is possible. In the future I will try to restrain myself , but I reserve the right to take a swipe at the proselytizers once in awhile. :0) Legal Eagle wrote: G'day Bob; Perhaps a moment to learn a little respect for beliefs other than your own might be in order.Or, should others treat you the way you treat them? Luc - Original Message - From: "bob allen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 8:42 AM Subject: Re: Fwd: Re [Biofuel] "Let Them Eat Rocket Fuel"John Guttridge -- Bob Allen,http://ozarker.org/bob Born just fine the first time. --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Fwd: Re: [Biofuel] "Let Them Eat Rocket Fuel"John Guttridge
No. Theoretically there's nothing wrong with money, only what it might represent - how a person acquires it and what one does with it. I don't believe that anyone who gives much thought to the matter will find that "the love of money is the root (sole source) of all evil." Theological scholars would probably relay that something was lost in the translation, with money becoming the metaphoric medium for evil as barter and exchange of one's own talents were replaced with more "universal" systems of currency. Gratifying one's own wants, ego and id over the basic existance and needs of others is probably a lot closer to "the root of all evil." Everything else just happens to be fruit from the same tree. Apparently that was too much to put on a bumper sticker when the King James was last revised. "They" did have it largely right when the Seven Deadly Sins were penned. Note could be made that all are extremes of their own spectrums. Pride, Avarice/Greed, Envy, Wrath/Anger, Lust, Gluttony and Sloth Even their opposites - Humility, Generosity, Love, Kindness, Self Control, Temperance and Zeal - must necessarily be tempered with a focus on the needs and greater good of others. Elsewise they become nothing more than destructive manifestations of their counterparts. Mohandas Gandhi was probably perfectly center on with his Seven Deadly Sins. One could note that they don't necessarily apply to the individual, becoming societal in context. Many would prefer not to look in either direction. Wealth without Work Pleasure without Conscience Science without Humanity Knowledge without Character Politics without Principle Commerce without Morality Worship without Sacrifice www.mkgandhi.org Like I said, all a bit more winded than a sound bite that will fit on a bumper sticker... Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: "Legal Eagle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 10:14 PM Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [Biofuel] "Let Them Eat Rocket Fuel"John Guttridge G'day Todd; Nice to see you are well. What has been most misquoted is "Money is the root of all evil" as being from the Bible, but it is not so. What is so, is the correct quote, "The LOVE of money is the root of all evil". The mere possesion is not a problem however the LOVE of it is as it causes all the things you so apply describe as the sins of man embodied in his corporate greed, disregrarding the health and well being of countless millions for nothing other than a profit line. How something of so little value could become such a motivator is left to those who wish to analyse such things, nevertheless a motivator it is, and unfortunately and unhealthy one unless kept in it's place behind the higher value of the life of the innocents it's influence affects. No man is an island, we all have influence, some positive some negative, never neutral. Luc - Original Message ----- From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 2:51 PM Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [Biofuel] "Let Them Eat Rocket Fuel"John Guttridge I was going to comment on this earlier. Maybe better never than late. Maybe not. Hypocrisy is not the birthright, political or genetic disposition of any given group, unless you define that group as "humans." Ask yourself this: Which is the greater "sin" (or substitute your word of preference)? To place a gun to someone's head and pull the trigger or, as a practice of industry, to knowingly poison a drinking water or air supply with chemicals that lead to deformities, disabilities and/or death, whether sanctioned by statute/rule or not, to knowingly consume such products with virtually no effort to curb personal consumption of them or find an alternative, or to knowingly consume the products of industries that commit such practices but to reduce consumption and move towards complete cessation? One is muder in the first person. One is murder by fiat. One is murder by apathy. One is murder by complicity. Under a Christian doctrine, and probably most others, not A, B, C or D can stand in the presence of "God." But the backup in the sewer comes about with D, as as rationalizations and justifications begin to abound. Given enough time, the terlet backs up all the way to the corporate ladder, where the excuses become "We were only doing what consumers and the market demanded," or "God requires us to follow the rules of state." Well, I'll leave it up to any reader to determine just how well such hog squat is going to fly in front of anyone's God of choice. True that it seems some "sects" get washed over the gunwhales with their blatency. But hypocrisy is no mor
Re: Fwd: Re [Biofuel] "Let Them Eat Rocket Fuel"John Guttridge
Perhaps a moment to learn a little respect for beliefs other than your own might be in order.Or, should others treat you the way you treat them? Luc - Original Message - From: "bob allen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 8:42 AM Subject: Re: Fwd: Re [Biofuel] "Let Them Eat Rocket Fuel"John Guttridge [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I might think it, but I leave that to GOD THE CREATOR ! you are presupposing that I give a tinker's dam about your belief in voodoo. I don't and therefore your message is wasted on me. toodles -- -- Bob /ozarker.org/bob -- - The modern conservative is engaged in one of Man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Fwd: Re: [Biofuel] "Let Them Eat Rocket Fuel"John Guttridge
Nice to see you are well. What has been most misquoted is "Money is the root of all evil" as being from the Bible, but it is not so. What is so, is the correct quote, "The LOVE of money is the root of all evil". The mere possesion is not a problem however the LOVE of it is as it causes all the things you so apply describe as the sins of man embodied in his corporate greed, disregrarding the health and well being of countless millions for nothing other than a profit line. How something of so little value could become such a motivator is left to those who wish to analyse such things, nevertheless a motivator it is, and unfortunately and unhealthy one unless kept in it's place behind the higher value of the life of the innocents it's influence affects. No man is an island, we all have influence, some positive some negative, never neutral. Luc - Original Message - From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 2:51 PM Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [Biofuel] "Let Them Eat Rocket Fuel"John Guttridge I was going to comment on this earlier. Maybe better never than late. Maybe not. Hypocrisy is not the birthright, political or genetic disposition of any given group, unless you define that group as "humans." Ask yourself this: Which is the greater "sin" (or substitute your word of preference)? To place a gun to someone's head and pull the trigger or, as a practice of industry, to knowingly poison a drinking water or air supply with chemicals that lead to deformities, disabilities and/or death, whether sanctioned by statute/rule or not, to knowingly consume such products with virtually no effort to curb personal consumption of them or find an alternative, or to knowingly consume the products of industries that commit such practices but to reduce consumption and move towards complete cessation? One is muder in the first person. One is murder by fiat. One is murder by apathy. One is murder by complicity. Under a Christian doctrine, and probably most others, not A, B, C or D can stand in the presence of "God." But the backup in the sewer comes about with D, as as rationalizations and justifications begin to abound. Given enough time, the terlet backs up all the way to the corporate ladder, where the excuses become "We were only doing what consumers and the market demanded," or "God requires us to follow the rules of state." Well, I'll leave it up to any reader to determine just how well such hog squat is going to fly in front of anyone's God of choice. True that it seems some "sects" get washed over the gunwhales with their blatency. But hypocrisy is no more industry specific than it is gender, theology or polically based. Everyone is a participant to some degree, whether intentionally or swept along in an ancilliary fashion. Overall and in general, it's a programmed defect of the species - inordinately social and in some part perhaps genetic, What remains to be seen is how well humans can collectively and individually evolve above it and whether we'll survive to see the day. In the interim, I still don't stop wondering when "right to life" is going to start meaning "all life" Todd Swearingen "The end of the human race will be that we eventually die of civilization." Ralph Waldo Emerson - Original Message - From: "John Guttridge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 1:02 PM Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [Biofuel] "Let Them Eat Rocket Fuel"John Guttridge Mr Wilde, No large inclusive statement was intended to be made about right to lifers in general I was pointing out that he claims to be the champion of the life of an unborn child and yet seems to be the champion of poisoning unborn children. I never meant that all right to lifers were in favor of poisoning unborn children. Although I disagree with right to lifers I believe that their opinion on the subject comes from a place of caring, I just feel that they are misguided in their caring. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please don't make LARGE INCLUSIVE STATEMENTS about those of us who are fighting to save the unborn child ! IF ONLY THOSE WHO DESIRE ABORTION HAD EXPERIENCED THIS THROUGH THEIR OWN MOTHER, this would be a very moot point. I think that it is a highly confused point of view to suggest that anyone "desires abortion". Making the decision to abort one's unborn child is quite possibly the hardest thing that one will ever have to do. Those on the other side of this argument are simply desirous of the right to have an abortion. When abortion is illegal it is not eliminated, it becomes a coat hanger operation. We have seen thi
Re: Fwd: Re [Biofuel] "Let Them Eat Rocket Fuel"John Guttridge
Whatever the reason, Many of those who practice "extreme specialization" in "literary criticism" are catalysts for social discourse and helps us transcend a society and culture which we might someday call archaic. There is, at least, some value in everyone's opinion. To think otherwise, implies arrogance and ignorance -- (IMHO) the worst combination of human attributes. Mike "It's good knowing he's out there. The Dude. Taking it easy for all us sinners." ...The Big Labowski Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Bob & Hakan, "Much literary criticism comes from people for >whom extreme specialization is a cover for either grave >cerebal inadequacy or terminal laziness, the latter being a >much cherished aspect of academic freedom. JKG Thanks for >your reply, Kim What's that supposed to mean, Kim? There is freedom of discussion at this list, it's something that has been established, built and maintained over five years, and many of us set great store by it. Are you saying that it's just terminal laziness, a cherished aspect of academic freedom??? Because that it sure as hell isn't, other than "cherished" perhaps. There's nothing merely academic about it, and it's the very opposite of laziness - it's rigorous, as it has to be else it would quickly succumb to the lowest common denominator, which has happened elsewhere, but not here. Kindly explain yourself. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner >- Original Message Follows - > > > > > > Bob, > > > > Since we many times enjoyed the freedom of discussion, I > > guess that we have to accept this kind of voodoo also. > > > > I had the same reaction to this, but it was too brutal. > > Thanks that you so elegantly expressed my opinion also and > > made it possible to only agree with what you are saying. > > > > Hakan > > > > At 02:42 PM 2/1/2005, you wrote: > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > >>I might think it, but I leave that > > >>to GOD THE CREATOR ! > > > > > >you are presupposing that I give a tinker's dam about > > your belief in >voodoo. I don't and therefore your > > message is wasted on me. >toodles > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > >- > > - >Bob Allen,http://ozarker.org/bob > > >- > > - > > >- > > >The modern conservative is engaged in one of > > Man's oldest exercises >in moral philosophy; that is, the > > search for a superior moral >justification for selfishness > > JKG > > >- > > --- > ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Fwd: Re [Biofuel] "Let Them Eat Rocket Fuel"John Guttridge
Kim, I take your word for it, nothing is better than when it comes from "the horses mouth". Hakan At 07:39 PM 2/1/2005, you wrote: Bob & Hakan, "Much literary criticism comes from people for whom extreme specialization is a cover for either grave cerebal inadequacy or terminal laziness, the latter being a much cherished aspect of academic freedom. JKG Thanks for your reply, Kim - Original Message Follows - > > > Bob, > > Since we many times enjoyed the freedom of discussion, I > guess that we have to accept this kind of voodoo also. > > I had the same reaction to this, but it was too brutal. > Thanks that you so elegantly expressed my opinion also and > made it possible to only agree with what you are saying. > > Hakan > > At 02:42 PM 2/1/2005, you wrote: > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > >> > >> > >>I might think it, but I leave that > >>to GOD THE CREATOR ! > > > >you are presupposing that I give a tinker's dam about > your belief in >voodoo. I don't and therefore your > message is wasted on me. >toodles > > > > > > > >-- > >- > - >Bob Allen,http://ozarker.org/bob > >- > - > >- > >The modern conservative is engaged in one of > Man's oldest exercises >in moral philosophy; that is, the > search for a superior moral >justification for selfishness > JKG > >- > --- > > > > ___ > Biofuel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Fwd: Re [Biofuel] "Let Them Eat Rocket Fuel"John Guttridge
whom extreme specialization is a cover for either grave cerebal inadequacy or terminal laziness, the latter being a much cherished aspect of academic freedom. JKG Thanks for your reply, Kim What's that supposed to mean, Kim? There is freedom of discussion at this list, it's something that has been established, built and maintained over five years, and many of us set great store by it. Are you saying that it's just terminal laziness, a cherished aspect of academic freedom??? Because that it sure as hell isn't, other than "cherished" perhaps. There's nothing merely academic about it, and it's the very opposite of laziness - it's rigorous, as it has to be else it would quickly succumb to the lowest common denominator, which has happened elsewhere, but not here. Kindly explain yourself. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner - Original Message Follows - > > > Bob, > > Since we many times enjoyed the freedom of discussion, I > guess that we have to accept this kind of voodoo also. > > I had the same reaction to this, but it was too brutal. > Thanks that you so elegantly expressed my opinion also and > made it possible to only agree with what you are saying. > > Hakan > > At 02:42 PM 2/1/2005, you wrote: > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > >> > >> > >>I might think it, but I leave that > >>to GOD THE CREATOR ! > > > >you are presupposing that I give a tinker's dam about > your belief in >voodoo. I don't and therefore your > message is wasted on me. >toodles > > > > > > > >-- > >- > - >Bob Allen,http://ozarker.org/bob > >- > - > >- > >The modern conservative is engaged in one of > Man's oldest exercises >in moral philosophy; that is, the > search for a superior moral >justification for selfishness > JKG > >- > --- > ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Fwd: Re [Biofuel] "Let Them Eat Rocket Fuel"John Guttridge
Bob & Hakan, "Much literary criticism comes from people for whom extreme specialization is a cover for either grave cerebal inadequacy or terminal laziness, the latter being a much cherished aspect of academic freedom. JKG Thanks for your reply, Kim - Original Message Follows - > > > Bob, > > Since we many times enjoyed the freedom of discussion, I > guess that we have to accept this kind of voodoo also. > > I had the same reaction to this, but it was too brutal. > Thanks that you so elegantly expressed my opinion also and > made it possible to only agree with what you are saying. > > Hakan > > At 02:42 PM 2/1/2005, you wrote: > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > >> > >> > >>I might think it, but I leave that > >>to GOD THE CREATOR ! > > > >you are presupposing that I give a tinker's dam about > your belief in >voodoo. I don't and therefore your > message is wasted on me. >toodles > > > > > > > >-- > >- > - >Bob Allen,http://ozarker.org/bob > >- > - > >- > >The modern conservative is engaged in one of > Man's oldest exercises >in moral philosophy; that is, the > search for a superior moral >justification for selfishness > JKG > >- > --- > > > > ___ > Biofuel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Fwd: Re [Biofuel] "Let Them Eat Rocket Fuel"John Guttridge
Bob, Since we many times enjoyed the freedom of discussion, I guess that we have to accept this kind of voodoo also. I had the same reaction to this, but it was too brutal. Thanks that you so elegantly expressed my opinion also and made it possible to only agree with what you are saying. Hakan At 02:42 PM 2/1/2005, you wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I might think it, but I leave that to GOD THE CREATOR ! you are presupposing that I give a tinker's dam about your belief in voodoo. I don't and therefore your message is wasted on me. toodles -- -- Bob Allen,http://ozarker.org/bob -- - The modern conservative is engaged in one of Man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness JKG ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Fwd: Re [Biofuel] "Let Them Eat Rocket Fuel"John Guttridge
I might think it, but I leave that to GOD THE CREATOR ! you are presupposing that I give a tinker's dam about your belief in voodoo. I don't and therefore your message is wasted on me. toodles -- -- Bob Allen,http://ozarker.org/bob -- - The modern conservative is engaged in one of Man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness JKG --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Fwd: Re: [Biofuel] "Let Them Eat Rocket Fuel"John Guttridge
Hi All, 'Scuse me for the post below. I've been lurking for a while and never expected my first post on the biofuel list to be on the topic of a woman's control over her physical sovereignty, but... Speaking from personal experience, deciding to have an abortion was not a difficult decision, and I have never regretted it. I am rather sceptical about the people who claim to care about the "unborn" as most of then show complete unconcern about the children who born, and then dying, under the bombs rained down by their precious flag-waving troops, troops who also, incidentally, display their great "moral values" by perpetrating vicious and perverted torture on people in other countries because their vicious flag- waving, bible-brandishing politicians are salivating for the oil and other resources located in the country (counties) where those unfortunate children happen to be. And while we're at it, no concern at all for the children in their own country who are miserable, especially if those children have dark skin. In fact, based on the historyy of this in America, I tend to suspect that if some of these people people who so love the "unborn" succeeded in gaining the hegemony over the US a la Margaret Atwood's novel, "the Handmaid's Tale", they would forcibly sterilize the Black women, and force the white women to become breeding machines. Unborn, schmunborn. How about if those so concerned about fetuses allow the fetuses to be removed from women who don't want babies and have them implanted in their own bodies? When they start taking some personal responsibility for the "unborn' they love so much, instead of just using this issue as a mask for an agenda for the subjugation of women and the imposition of theocracy, I would have some belief that they actually venerate human human life. I am not suggesting that the writer of the post to which I am responding necessarily holds any or all of these agendas, since I simply know nothing about him, but I have seen enough for quite a long time to know that others in the so-called "pro-life" movement do. Lyn > Mr Wilde, > > No large inclusive statement was intended to be made about right to > lifers in general I was pointing out that he claims to be the champion > of the life of an unborn child and yet seems to be the champion of > poisoning unborn children. I never meant that all right to lifers were > in favor of poisoning unborn children. Although I disagree with right to > lifers I believe that their opinion on the subject comes from a place of > caring, I just feel that they are misguided in their caring. > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Please don't make LARGE > > INCLUSIVE STATEMENTS about those of us who are fighting to > > save the unborn child ! IF ONLY THOSE WHO DESIRE ABORTION > > HAD EXPERIENCED THIS THROUGH THEIR OWN MOTHER, this would be > > a very moot point. > > I think that it is a highly confused point of view to suggest that > anyone "desires abortion". Making the decision to abort one's unborn > child is quite possibly the hardest thing that one will ever have to do. > Those on the other side of this argument are simply desirous of the > right to have an abortion. When abortion is illegal it is not > eliminated, it becomes a coat hanger operation. We have seen this in our > own country. Abortion is never something that should be taken lightly > but it is also not something that should be banned. > > Further, suggestions that those that are in favor of abortions should > have been aborted are pretty heinous. You should take a deep look into > yourself that you would wish that on someone else for disagreeing with > your political/ethical views. This is the kind of sentiment that > justifies killing abortion clinic doctors. Based on this kind of > sentiment I should kill you, and you me. Doesn't that sound wrong? > > >Having made the worst of life decisions > > to participate in abortion of my own flesh and others, I > > pray for no others to experience my own deceit. > > All of us who have been through this kind of an experience share this > prayer, regardless of which side of the issue we are on. Deceit is not > the word I would assign. > > ___ > Biofuel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Fwd: Re: [Biofuel] "Let Them Eat Rocket Fuel"John Guttridge
not. Hypocrisy is not the birthright, political or genetic disposition of any given group, unless you define that group as "humans." Ask yourself this: Which is the greater "sin" (or substitute your word of preference)? To place a gun to someone's head and pull the trigger or, as a practice of industry, to knowingly poison a drinking water or air supply with chemicals that lead to deformities, disabilities and/or death, whether sanctioned by statute/rule or not, to knowingly consume such products with virtually no effort to curb personal consumption of them or find an alternative, or to knowingly consume the products of industries that commit such practices but to reduce consumption and move towards complete cessation? One is muder in the first person. One is murder by fiat. One is murder by apathy. One is murder by complicity. Under a Christian doctrine, and probably most others, not A, B, C or D can stand in the presence of "God." But the backup in the sewer comes about with D, as as rationalizations and justifications begin to abound. Given enough time, the terlet backs up all the way to the corporate ladder, where the excuses become "We were only doing what consumers and the market demanded," or "God requires us to follow the rules of state." Well, I'll leave it up to any reader to determine just how well such hog squat is going to fly in front of anyone's God of choice. True that it seems some "sects" get washed over the gunwhales with their blatency. But hypocrisy is no more industry specific than it is gender, theology or polically based. Everyone is a participant to some degree, whether intentionally or swept along in an ancilliary fashion. Overall and in general, it's a programmed defect of the species - inordinately social and in some part perhaps genetic, What remains to be seen is how well humans can collectively and individually evolve above it and whether we'll survive to see the day. In the interim, I still don't stop wondering when "right to life" is going to start meaning "all life" Todd Swearingen "The end of the human race will be that we eventually die of civilization." Ralph Waldo Emerson - Original Message ----- From: "John Guttridge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 1:02 PM Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [Biofuel] "Let Them Eat Rocket Fuel"John Guttridge Mr Wilde, No large inclusive statement was intended to be made about right to lifers in general I was pointing out that he claims to be the champion of the life of an unborn child and yet seems to be the champion of poisoning unborn children. I never meant that all right to lifers were in favor of poisoning unborn children. Although I disagree with right to lifers I believe that their opinion on the subject comes from a place of caring, I just feel that they are misguided in their caring. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please don't make LARGE INCLUSIVE STATEMENTS about those of us who are fighting to save the unborn child ! IF ONLY THOSE WHO DESIRE ABORTION HAD EXPERIENCED THIS THROUGH THEIR OWN MOTHER, this would be a very moot point. I think that it is a highly confused point of view to suggest that anyone "desires abortion". Making the decision to abort one's unborn child is quite possibly the hardest thing that one will ever have to do. Those on the other side of this argument are simply desirous of the right to have an abortion. When abortion is illegal it is not eliminated, it becomes a coat hanger operation. We have seen this in our own country. Abortion is never something that should be taken lightly but it is also not something that should be banned. Further, suggestions that those that are in favor of abortions should have been aborted are pretty heinous. You should take a deep look into yourself that you would wish that on someone else for disagreeing with your political/ethical views. This is the kind of sentiment that justifies killing abortion clinic doctors. Based on this kind of sentiment I should kill you, and you me. Doesn't that sound wrong? Having made the worst of life decisions to participate in abortion of my own flesh and others, I pray for no others to experience my own deceit. All of us who have been through this kind of an experience share this prayer, regardless of which side of the issue we are on. Deceit is not the word I would assign. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___
Re: Fwd: Re: [Biofuel] "Let Them Eat Rocket Fuel"John Guttridge
No large inclusive statement was intended to be made about right to lifers in general I was pointing out that he claims to be the champion of the life of an unborn child and yet seems to be the champion of poisoning unborn children. I never meant that all right to lifers were in favor of poisoning unborn children. Although I disagree with right to lifers I believe that their opinion on the subject comes from a place of caring, I just feel that they are misguided in their caring. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please don't make LARGE INCLUSIVE STATEMENTS about those of us who are fighting to save the unborn child ! IF ONLY THOSE WHO DESIRE ABORTION HAD EXPERIENCED THIS THROUGH THEIR OWN MOTHER, this would be a very moot point. I think that it is a highly confused point of view to suggest that anyone "desires abortion". Making the decision to abort one's unborn child is quite possibly the hardest thing that one will ever have to do. Those on the other side of this argument are simply desirous of the right to have an abortion. When abortion is illegal it is not eliminated, it becomes a coat hanger operation. We have seen this in our own country. Abortion is never something that should be taken lightly but it is also not something that should be banned. Further, suggestions that those that are in favor of abortions should have been aborted are pretty heinous. You should take a deep look into yourself that you would wish that on someone else for disagreeing with your political/ethical views. This is the kind of sentiment that justifies killing abortion clinic doctors. Based on this kind of sentiment I should kill you, and you me. Doesn't that sound wrong? Having made the worst of life decisions to participate in abortion of my own flesh and others, I pray for no others to experience my own deceit. All of us who have been through this kind of an experience share this prayer, regardless of which side of the issue we are on. Deceit is not the word I would assign. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
