[svg-developers] SVG support detection in browserland
To accompany contemporaneous discussions establishing levels of support for SVG in various browsers, I would like to clarify a sub-point. What methods (perhaps even reliable methods) are favoured for on-the-fly 'detecting' support of SVG either in part or whole? By 'whole' I mean detection of outright capability to accept SVG - does it: accept SVG and have a go at rendering (perhaps missing out animation, effects, xlinking to events, etc); accept SVG but do nothing useful; not accept SVG and complain overtly or offer to download the document instead? By 'in part' I imply within the first two options above: can we usefully or reliably test on an individual 'element' basis whether we're going to get expected results or not, for such things as smil anim, effects, xlink, and so on. I mention this in a similar vein to how javascript practitioners, after the first browser war, adopted a stance of live testing almost each keyword for its existence, before executing it. Can we do this in SVG? A live test rig (perhaps as a prolog part of each svg doc) that affords granular degradation (and perhaps svg frameworks). -- Ian Tindale http://www.flickr.com/photos/iantindale/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit my membership" Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] SVG support detection in browserland
To accompany contemporaneous discussions establishing levels of support for SVG in various browsers, I would like to clarify a sub-point. What methods (perhaps even reliable methods) are favoured for on-the-fly 'detecting' support of SVG either in part or whole? By 'whole' I mean detection of outright capability to accept SVG - does it: accept SVG and have a go at rendering (perhaps missing out animation, effects, xlinking to events, etc); accept SVG but do nothing useful; not accept SVG and complain overtly or offer to download the document instead? By 'in part' I imply within the first two options above: can we usefully or reliably test on an individual 'element' basis whether we're going to get expected results or not, for such things as smil anim, effects, xlink, and so on. I mention this in a similar vein to how javascript practitioners, after the first browser war, adopted a stance of live testing almost each keyword for its existence, before executing it. Can we do this in SVG? A live test rig (perhaps as a prolog part of each svg doc) that affords granular degradation (and perhaps svg frameworks). [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit my membership" Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] SVG Nonexistent Workflow (was: SVG path format confusion)
Andreas Neumann wrote: > > I believe, like kirby stated in his answer, that Inkscape is the > better SVG editor than Illustrator, but Illustrator is the more > capable and more mature graphics software. I personally find Inkscape almost thoroughly unusable (although perhaps that has a lot to do with Linux's lack of integration with my Wacom - it doesn't work). Most of what I do in SVG simply doesn't show up in Inkscape whatsoever. It is of no help in terms of actual drawing and no help whatsoever in terms of animation. Illustrator excels as a drawing interface, but is of no help in terms of animation. Once the svg is out of Illustrator and edited (I use GoLive as the most helpful SVG editor I've yet to encounter) it cannot reliably return to Illustrator. This is one of the biggest problems I have with SVG today (much as I did about five years ago). The workflow situation is almost nonexistent. Illustrator is a one-way street. Stuff can't round-trip back to Illustrator to draw further artwork. Illustrator can produce initial raw artwork and then you have to sort out your own workflow environment to manually instigate animation and further features. Once this has happened, they have to stay in said environment, which will largely be a non-visual one. This means much saving, hopping over to browser, reloading, (muting any midi accompanying as it launches each time, in my case,) nipping over to bluetooth, loading it onto the phone, watching the phone fail to render what ASV works with, etc. As I've said years ago - a developed LiveMotion would've been the ideal basis upon which to structure an SVG working environment. The existing LiveMotion frame animation wouldn't be neccessarily a 'real' frame analogue of what's happening, but rather it would be repurposed to be more similar to a music timeline of tracks. Similarly, animation 'modules' and sequences could be built in a similar way to 'riffs and licks' in music*. The huge problem I have with editing it in GoLive in what is essentially a luxurious but nevertheless manual way is that I have very little comprehension of what I'm actually doing with transform matrixes; the animation is always sheer guesswork which gradually whittles down to what I'm imagining; as is the reconstruction of simple bezier curves without the aid of an editor (because I can't round-trip back to Illustrator and I often can't be arsed to fire up Illustrator to draw a simple spline for something knowing that it'll be a one-way output-only trip that needs extracting from that single file and further massaging into the file I'm working on) - but, after all these years I'm getting sort of good at guesstimating the coordinate space for plugging in roughly the right numbers for curves. My point is that I shouldn't have to be getting my hands dirty with such low-level nuts and bolts. * Of course, the huge problem with doing it this way would be to make it painfully apparent that there's really no developed way of integrating music (or at least midi) with svg in a way that can have a meaningful and modular sense of sync, semantics or otherwise. - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit my membership" Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Re: Deciphering mark-up and that blasted g element
If you happen to have access to Adobe GoLive, use that as a SVG editor. There's a specific view that it has of the XML tree - the Outline Editor - that I find simply the nonpareil for working with SVG. You can flip back to the source code editor freely, to make it seem as though you're working with raw pointy-bracket level stuff, but the outline editor for me is just the perfect exemplar level of abstaction to work with fluidly. - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit my membership" Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] SVG WorkStation - alpha Feedback
It's nothing but an oversized graphic of a coiled gold spring. Clicking on it does nothing. That's it. It doesn't do anything. -- Ian Tindale http://tindale.dyn.nu/ - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit my membership" Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Re: Adobe to buy Macromedia
On 18/4/05 12:00 pm, "Robin Berjon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I would expect: > > - SVG support from Flash MX (or whatever it'll be called) > - SVG support in the Flash plugin and/or Reader > - merging of GoLive's cool mobile functionality into Dreamweaver > - the extinction of Freehand and Fireworks That's pretty much exactly what I was thinking too (and GoLive's excellent SVG / XML editor mode into dw too). I'd also add that I would expect SVG to become perhaps an alternative internal description mode for the same shape, line and curve primitives that SWF is already capable of, and would allow editing of such as SVG. All told, the main effect I would imagine is that SVG disappears. I don't mean that it goes away, I mean that it becomes internalised into the way Flash does its stuff, to the degree that designers simply don't see the SVG - they just get on and use the authoring environment. This parallels what happened with PostScript. Nowadays, people just get on and use QuarkXpress or InDesign and it really doesn't matter that it's PostScript coming out of the other end, it gets the job done and nobody thinks about PostScript with any more excitement that normal people think about what kind of wires their stereo system is hooked up with. With an SVG-internalised Flash (which might coexist with the existing SWF description mode) then SVG experts could dig in and get a lot done, but you shouldn't need to be that expert just to get a bit of SVG work out of the door. -- Ian Tindale http://tindale.dyn.nu/ - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit my membership" Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] REPOST: SVG Enabled Phones?
I've got a K700i, which I used to try and get http://tindale.dyn.nu/art/squareperson01.svg working on. For a very long time it worked fine on a friends Motorola E1000, and of course on ASV, but it wasn't until it was put on the K700i that I saw how variable the support of SVG-T in phones is likely to be. Large parts of early squareperson didn't work at all on the K700i (mainly, if I remember, to to with path animation and other animation aspects). I should've documented 'the fixing of squareperson' as I went along but of course I didn't, I just incrementally adjusted stuff and tried this and that until things worked. Here's a simple test of a few bits I've thrown together that should work but don't on a K700i: http://tindale.dyn.nu/art/se-fail.svg - compare what you see it do in ASV to what you see it do in a phone. Even the E1000 doesn't render it quite properly (the background 'sticks' - I've used one method to get from a colour to another colour, and yet a different method to get from that colour to a third colour and back to the first). Can't remember if it does the curve properly either - I think it doesn't. I think the K700i is useful for me in that it represents the 'bottom level' of conformity (or it's own idea of conformity to SVG-T), in that if I can get something to work in the K700i, it should work anywhere. Shame it looks so rough on screen though - there's no concept of smooth antialiasing, which means everything on the phone looks intolerably rough and abysmally shoddy. It's no use fixing these flaw in later versions - the version I've got is out there in the market already, all over the place. On 18/4/05 3:24 pm, "tbone58x" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I am contemplating the purchase of a new wireless phone. Can someone > recommend an SVG enabled phone and a web site where I can see the > actual SVG render on the phone? -- Ian Tindale http://tindale.dyn.nu/ - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit my membership" Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] SVG Fonts
If you like, you can download a little bit of experimental SVGT that I created a few months ago, which contains it's own SVG font (a very simple restricted font I designed many years ago, which was simple enough to convert to be an SVG font, as it only contains a handful of characters - it's a seven-segment numeric font). This is the url: http://tindale.dyn.nu/art/squareperson01.svg It seems to display and work well enough on my K700i phone - but of course, there's no smoothing whatsoever so it looks intolerably rough (which is why I've not progressed the experiment any further - there's no point, if it looks as shoddy as this). By all means, compare what I'm doing with what you're doing. ___ Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit my membership" Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
