Re: [svg-developers] Re: IE9 and ASV

2010-10-02 Thread ddailey 
Hi Jeff,

Yes, I'm sure my understanding of how plugins work is flawed. ;) So you're 
saying that if IE8/ASV didn't support HSL, it will never in IE9/ASV,  since ASV 
would have had no way to draw on that context from the browser base 
environment. No I didn't know that plugins were thusly limited. I thought I had 
seen evidence to the contrary, but, as I said, that may have been illusory and 
I can't point to an example. 

And no by IE8 I didn't mean IE8/ASV. IE8 doesn't seem to support HSL in HTML 
either. hello

That's why I was asking; sorry if that wasn't clear.

And yes, we should assemble that list one day.. mostly has to do with some 
known bugs in Opera, some fringe cases involving complex filter chains, 
intersecting clipPaths, and fancy glyphs that involve content other than simple 
paths.The places in my work that use asterisks are usually the places where 
only ASV works, though some of those are now working in Opera and some never 
got rewritten to transcend the getters and setters days. It would take several 
days to work through the thousand or so examples to find the few dozen that I'm 
aware of.

And no, not even I would advocate for folks to jump on the IE/ASV bandwagon! It 
is nice, though to have a second and sometimes a first browser in which to be 
able to test SVG code against our understandings of the spec, so the questions 
about backing in and out of ASV from IE still are relevant to me until the 
lesser implementations mature a bit, which thankfully they are, though it still 
may be a couple of years based on what we've seen in the last two years. 

And until Windows 7 is widely deployed,  for the 60% of the world using IE (not 
an insignificant number to my way of thinking) the question of what to do with 
those folks who don't have IE9 remains. SVG support doesn't seem to be 
adequately handled by the other options (remember that IE/ASV developers have 
been gleefully working with the assumptions of filter and SMIL support for 
almost a decade now in corporate settings where the MS environment is deeply 
deployed). 

By fakeSMIL I meant to use some sort of generic term like fauxSMIL, and was 
meaning to include Doug's stuff as well. Thanks for the references to both, as 
I will be needing that info soon for another purpose!

So most of my questions are, alas, still open.

I had read a suggestion [1] , though that suggested IE9 doesn't support 
foreignObject which would be a shame since that is a good way to work around 
the need to embed SVG in HTML wrappers to have access to HTML . 
Having to drop SVG into an HTML wrapper each time one wants to be able to 
examine source code of a dynamic document is a veritable nuisance!

In terms of preachin', Jeff, that's cool. I'll hope to resist the temptation to 
preach back at ya' since there may be some fundamental idealogical differences 
afoot here!

cheers,
David

[1] http://schmerg.com/svg-support-in-ie9-close-but-should-try-harde



  - Original Message - 
  From: jeff_schiller 
  To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 4:53 PM
  Subject: [svg-developers] Re: IE9 and ASV



  Hi David,

  --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "ddailey"  wrote:
  >
  > Hi I wonder if anyone has done any experimenting with IE9 and ASV. Certain 
  > features[1] in ASV are still more advanced than any other browser, 

  I know I've asked before, I apologize for losing track of this, but can we 
get a list of features that ASV supports better than any other browser? Maybe 
we can maintain it on a wiki page or something.

  > 2. While IE8 does not yet support HSL color values (as in  xlink:href="#two" stroke="hsl(180, 100%, 34%)" fill="hsl(220,100%,40%)" 

  I don't understand this sentence. IE8 did not support SVG at all, so of 
course stroke="hsl(...)" would never have worked. Maybe you meant ASV?

  > /> ), I assume (since that is defined in CSS3) that IE9 will. So, 

  I don't know that IE9 supports HSL.

  > were running ASV in IE9, would IE9's support of HSL color values be 
  > inherited into ASV? That is, does ASV take its SVG color definitions from 
  > the IE platform, or since at the time of implementation, SVG's color 
  > definitions were more advanced than HTML's, would ASV override the 
browser's 
  > behavior here? Generally, I think that as versions of IE have improved and 
  > as bug fixes have been found, ASV seems to have been resilient enough to 
  > reflect those improvements, at least in realms of scripting, though that 
may 
  > have been illusory.

  I think you may have a general misunderstanding about how plugins work (no 
offense). The browser gives the plugin a box that it can draw into. The plugin 
gets the markup, interprets it, draws the results. Other than that, I don't 
think it interacts with the browser in any way.

  Also in ASV's case, ASV contains a (very old) JS interpreter based on Mozilla 
from the pre-Firefox 1.0 days. This means that its DOM and JavaScript support

Re: [svg-developers] Re: IE9 and ASV

2010-10-02 Thread ddailey 
Yes, I am quite impressed by the rapid progress that WebKit seems to be making, 
and recently!

Also, if I heard Alex Danilo right at SVGOpen, Abbra will be introducing a new 
SVG plugin for IE, and soon. Did I hear that right?

cheers
David
  - Original Message - 
  From: jeff_schiller 
  To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 8:08 PM
  Subject: [svg-developers] Re: IE9 and ASV



  Hi David,

  --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "ddailey"  wrote:
  >
  > And until Windows 7 is widely deployed, for the 60% of the world using IE 
(not an insignificant number to my way of thinking) the question of what to do 
with those folks who don't have IE9 remains. SVG support doesn't seem to be 
adequately handled by the other options (remember that IE/ASV developers have 
been gleefully working with the assumptions of filter and SMIL support for 
almost a decade now in corporate settings where the MS environment is deeply 
deployed). 

  I'm curious if Google Chrome Frame plugin meets that purpose? WebKit is 
supporting more and more SVG Filters and SMIL these days and is actively being 
updated.

  Regards,
  Jeff



  

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Re: [svg-developers] Re: IE9 and ASV

2010-10-04 Thread David Leunen 
> There's only one FakeSmile library and, though it hasn't shown much
> activity in quite awhile, maybe someone will help improve it now that we
> know IE9 won't support SMIL. http://leunen.d.free.fr/fakesmile/


The feature list can be found at
http://leunen.d.free.fr/fakesmile/status.html
It's true I have found some time to fix some bugs, but haven't added any
feature for a while.
Though, I just installed IE9 beta yesterday, and I had time to test three
animated SVG's. It seemed to work, but the memory consumption was
dramatically high. Can anyone confirm ? Does anyone know a good debugging
tool for this kind of issue ?



Those are the only two alternatives that I'm really aware of.
>

I think this is interesting and related :
Fabien Cazenave developed "Timesheet
Scheduler":
a JavaScript implementation of SMIL/Timing and SMIL/Timesheets.
Along with a Timesheet Editor for Kompozer.


David


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