Re: [svg-developers] SVG Fonts
On Sun, 14 Nov 2010 14:46:27 +0100, scalablev s...@oyvindeid.com wrote: Looks like http://zuccaralloo.de/devgroup/samples/complexPaths.svg only displays as it should in ASV. Is this because native implementations don't support SVG Fonts? No, it's because most implementations haven't implemented support for anything else than the tiny subset of SVG Fonts, see http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGTiny12/fonts.html. Essentially what this means is that arbitrary svg markup inside a glyph element isn't supported, only glyph elements that have a 'd' attribute will be rendered. Try it in Opera or WebKit for example. Here's another example: http://www.treebuilder.de/default.asp?file=192928.xml. After some googling around, I understand that WOFF is the recommended alternative to SVG Fonts. Can I achieve the same with WOFF, i.e. custom symbols along paths? I need this for various elements in webmap applications. Well, WOFF couldn't do some of the things in that complexPaths example either, e.g using multiple colors in a glyph, or using strokes to define the glyph. Also at the time of writing I think you'll find that TTF fonts will get you a slightly broader range of support in browsers, unless you are specifically targetting the only the very latest browser releases. I don't think there's that much you could do with a WOFF font that you couldn't do with an SVG Font (even the svgtiny subset, or for that matter any other font format supported in browsers today TTF/OTF/EOT), at least if your goal is making symbols. Cheers /Erik -- Erik Dahlstrom, Core Technology Developer, Opera Software Co-Chair, W3C SVG Working Group Personal blog: http://my.opera.com/macdev_ed - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] SVG Fonts
Actually IE/ASV handles much arbitrary content inside a glyph see http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/gradientfont4.svg in which rotating gradients are assigned to shapes layed out as text along text paths to simulate non-linear gradients. And as you know, ASV handles your example as well (I quite like it BTW!). Whether the other browsers will ever implement SVG Fonts in light of the modern trend* to label as CSSn (for some large n2) everything in SVG except for path geometry, I guess is now in question. The other way to accomplish some of the non-rectiliinear patterning effects that you are experimenting with would be to use replicate as discussed here: http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/SVGOpen2010/replicate.htm . cheers, David * I think it to be just a passing fad; but then I am an optimist! - Original Message - From: Erik Dahlstrom To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 8:44 AM Subject: Re: [svg-developers] SVG Fonts On Sun, 14 Nov 2010 14:46:27 +0100, scalablev s...@oyvindeid.com wrote: Looks like http://zuccaralloo.de/devgroup/samples/complexPaths.svg only displays as it should in ASV. Is this because native implementations don't support SVG Fonts? No, it's because most implementations haven't implemented support for anything else than the tiny subset of SVG Fonts, see http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGTiny12/fonts.html. Essentially what this means is that arbitrary svg markup inside a glyph element isn't supported, only glyph elements that have a 'd' attribute will be rendered. Try it in Opera or WebKit for example. Here's another example: http://www.treebuilder.de/default.asp?file=192928.xml. After some googling around, I understand that WOFF is the recommended alternative to SVG Fonts. Can I achieve the same with WOFF, i.e. custom symbols along paths? I need this for various elements in webmap applications. Well, WOFF couldn't do some of the things in that complexPaths example either, e.g using multiple colors in a glyph, or using strokes to define the glyph. Also at the time of writing I think you'll find that TTF fonts will get you a slightly broader range of support in browsers, unless you are specifically targetting the only the very latest browser releases. I don't think there's that much you could do with a WOFF font that you couldn't do with an SVG Font (even the svgtiny subset, or for that matter any other font format supported in browsers today TTF/OTF/EOT), at least if your goal is making symbols. Cheers /Erik -- Erik Dahlstrom, Core Technology Developer, Opera Software Co-Chair, W3C SVG Working Group Personal blog: http://my.opera.com/macdev_ed [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] SVG Fonts
Ahmed Salman schrieb: Hi All! I am a novice in SVG. I want to transform the existing SVG 1.1 content (e.g. an image) into SVGT 1.1 at run time. I am stuck in a very basic problem. I have a very simple SVG file who displays text on the PC screen but its not displaying it on the mobile phone although I embed the font. A font file was posted by Holger on the group. Its displaying well but the font size is very small. I have some dumb questions. 1- Does SVGT support scaling of SVG fonts according to mobile display size? well if you dont specify width an height on yor root svg element, and instead use a viewBox, your whole image will fit the screen size. everithing will be scaled, including your text. 2- Can we generate SVG fonts from other system fonts on the PC? there is a ttf2svg which is part of the apache Batik project. see: http://xml.apache.org/batik/ttf2svg.html 3- Can we run single embedded SVG font on all mobiles that support SVGT 1.1? yes , but note that mobile fonts only understand one d parameter, you cant have primitive shapes in yor font definition. 4- It seems that SVG 1.1 support system fonts but SVGT 1.1 does not. Does it mean that we need to embed SVG font every time while transforming content from SVG 1.1 into SVGT 1.1 (e.g. using XSLT)? yes Is it possible to install SVG font in the mobile in advance? no, not that i know of any. I have attached both the font files. Your help is much appreciated. Regards, Suleman [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group svg-developers http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] SVG Fonts
If you like, you can download a little bit of experimental SVGT that I created a few months ago, which contains it's own SVG font (a very simple restricted font I designed many years ago, which was simple enough to convert to be an SVG font, as it only contains a handful of characters - it's a seven-segment numeric font). This is the url: http://tindale.dyn.nu/art/squareperson01.svg It seems to display and work well enough on my K700i phone - but of course, there's no smoothing whatsoever so it looks intolerably rough (which is why I've not progressed the experiment any further - there's no point, if it looks as shoddy as this). By all means, compare what I'm doing with what you're doing. ___ Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] SVG Fonts
Thanks a lot Holger. I much appreciate your help. I have come up with some new questions :) Level of SVGT support varies from device to device. Is there any way to find out which SVGT features are supported by the specific device model? E.g. 1- Compression support (e.g. Siemens S65 does not display compressed svg files (svgz) but SonyEricsson V800 display) 2- System fonts Support I looked into the wurlf.xml (http://wurfl.sourceforge.net/) file but it only provides information: 1- Support of SVGT 1.1 (true/false) 2- Support of SVGT 1.1+ (true/false) 3- Support of J2ME API for SVGT 1.1 (true/false) Is there any way to get the information about SVGT feature support in a specific model? Salmi! On 7/28/05, Holger Will [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ahmed Salman schrieb: Hi All! I am a novice in SVG. I want to transform the existing SVG 1.1 content (e.g. an image) into SVGT 1.1 at run time. I am stuck in a very basic problem. I have a very simple SVG file who displays text on the PC screen but its not displaying it on the mobile phone although I embed the font. A font file was posted by Holger on the group. Its displaying well but the font size is very small. I have some dumb questions. 1- Does SVGT support scaling of SVG fonts according to mobile display size? well if you dont specify width an height on yor root svg element, and instead use a viewBox, your whole image will fit the screen size. everithing will be scaled, including your text. 2- Can we generate SVG fonts from other system fonts on the PC? there is a ttf2svg which is part of the apache Batik project. see: http://xml.apache.org/batik/ttf2svg.html 3- Can we run single embedded SVG font on all mobiles that support SVGT 1.1? yes , but note that mobile fonts only understand one d parameter, you cant have primitive shapes in yor font definition. 4- It seems that SVG 1.1 support system fonts but SVGT 1.1 does not. Does it mean that we need to embed SVG font every time while transforming content from SVG 1.1 into SVGT 1.1 (e.g. using XSLT)? yes Is it possible to install SVG font in the mobile in advance? no, not that i know of any. I have attached both the font files. Your help is much appreciated. Regards, Suleman [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group svg-developers http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group svg-developers on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] SVG fonts in ASV
Cameron McCormack wrote: Can someone help me get SVG fonts working in ASV? I write SVG documents testing them against Batik and then when I get to trying them in ASV I'm always disappointed. :( Anyway, this document: svg xmlns=http://www.w3.org/2000/svg; width=400 height=400 defs font font-face font-family=CMR/ glyph unicode=#x48; glyph-name=H horiz-adv-x=750 d=M 33 0 m 580 605 c 0 36 2 47 79 47 h 24 v 31 c -35 -3 -109 -3 -147 -3 c -38 0 -113 0 -148 3 v -31 h 24 c 77 0 79 -11 79 -47 v -234 h -299 v 234 c 0 36 2 47 79 47 h 24 v 31 c -35 -3 -109 -3 -147 -3 c -38 0 -113 0 -148 3 v -31 h 24 c 77 0 79 -11 79 -47 v -527 c 0 -36 -2 -47 -79 -47 h -24 v -31 c 35 3 109 3 147 3 c 38 0 113 0 148 -3 v 31 h -24 c -77 0 -79 11 -79 47 v 262 h 299 v -262 c 0 -36 -2 -47 -79 -47 h -24 v -31 c 35 3 109 3 147 3 c 38 0 113 0 148 -3 v 31 h -24 c -77 0 -79 11 -79 47 z/ /font /defs text x=200 y=200 font-size=40 font-family=CMR, sans-serifHELLO/text /svg works fine in Batik. The H of the HELLO is rendered in Computer Modern Roman, and the ELLO is in some sans serif font. In ASV 3 under Linux, it crashes firefox. In ASV 3 under Windows, I just get a blank document. What can I do to make the font work in ASV? After some experimentation, it seems that ASV needs a missing-glyph element inside the font one. After I added one, it works fine, but of course (?), the glyphs E, L and O are rendered with the missing-glyph, not with the sans-serif font. I don't know the spec. enough to say if this is the required behavior or not. -- Philippe Lhoste -- (near) Paris -- France -- http://Phi.Lho.free.fr -- For servers mangling my From and Reply-To fields, -- please send private answers to PhiLho(a)GMX.net -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] SVG fonts in ASV
Adobe acknowledges that there is a bug in ASV3 where it does not implement the 'font-family' property correctly when a list of fonts are provided (or presumed). The CSS2 spec says that you are supposed to look for a matching glyph in each of the fonts specified in the 'font-family' property (and presumably include at one generic font as a fallback font even if it isn't listed), but ASV3 uses a simplified and incorrect approach where it picks a single font for any text run and does not do per-glyph checks as required by the CSS2 spec. It is almost certain that Adobe will not issue a dot release of ASV3 to fix this bug. Any fixes in this area would only come as part of a major new release if/when such a major new release were issued. Jon Ferraiolo Adobe At 07:07 AM 6/26/2005, Thomas DeWeese wrote: Hi Cameron, Phillipe, Cameron McCormack wrote: Philippe Lhoste: After some experimentation, it seems that ASV needs a missing-glyph element inside the font one. After I added one, it works fine, but of course (?), the glyphs E, L and O are rendered with the missing-glyph, not with the sans-serif font. Thanks Philippe, this fixed the problem! I don't know the spec. enough to say if this is the required behavior or not. This is not conformant behavior from the CSS 2 spec (15.5 step 7): If there is a matching font face, but it doesn't contain glyph(s) for the current character(s), and if there is a next alternative 'font-family' in the font sets, then repeat from step 2 with the next alternative 'font-family'. text font-family=test, serifhi/text my guess is that the 'h' and 'i' should be rendered with serif's glyphs, rather than with test's missing-glyph. At least, that is what Batik does. And it seems sensible. But in ASV it will use the missing-glyph. Batik's behavior is the correct behavior ASV's is not conformant to the CSS 2 specification. - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] SVG fonts in ASV
Any fixes in this area would only come as part of a major new release if/when such a major new release were issued Well, that's unambiguously ambiguous g. -Original Message- From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jon Ferraiolo Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 3:41 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [svg-developers] SVG fonts in ASV Adobe acknowledges that there is a bug in ASV3 where it does not implement the 'font-family' property correctly when a list of fonts are provided (or presumed). The CSS2 spec says that you are supposed to look for a matching glyph in each of the fonts specified in the 'font-family' property (and presumably include at one generic font as a fallback font even if it isn't listed), but ASV3 uses a simplified and incorrect approach where it picks a single font for any text run and does not do per-glyph checks as required by the CSS2 spec. It is almost certain that Adobe will not issue a dot release of ASV3 to fix this bug. Any fixes in this area would only come as part of a major new release if/when such a major new release were issued. Jon Ferraiolo Adobe - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] SVG Fonts
sunburned_surveyor wrote: Can anyone recommend a good tutorial/article on this subject? Nothing comes to mind, in general a SVG font is just more geometry with a funny coordinate system and stuff. Are there any open source repositories or libraries for SVG fonts. Is there any interest in creating one? The Batik toolkit now includes two SVG fonts (I won't claim that they are anything great but they are there). You can also take just about any existing open source TrueType font and convert it to SVG using the Batik ttf2svg converter. I think that in general it makes the most sense to built an open source repository of Fonts (SVG or otherwise) but there are already projects for that. Then using tools like Batik or Font Forge you can convert fonts into SVG (so you don't need your clients to install them). The one exception to this would be to do something like a really cool illuminated font. Unlike most font tech that is limited to BW with SVG you can use the full power of SVG for each glyph (multiple colors, gradients, complex strokes, etc). This would enable really elaborate fonts that couldn't be created in most other font systems. - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
