Re: [SWCollect] Disk Restoration
"Lee K. Seitz" wrote: > > Jim Leonard boldly stated: > > > >> And on that topic, does anyone know if there's a way to restore a copy > >> of Apple II Choplifter? > > >Ack, no. Your best bet is to find the original and do a nybble copy. > > Well I've never said my Apple knowledge was vast. What's a "nybble > copy"? Is that some copying program I'm unfamiliar with or a specific > method? Slang term from my Apple II days... Get a program like Nybble Copier or Central Point Copy (right name?) and make a backup the old-fashioned way. -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive historical PC gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Disk Restoration
Jim Leonard boldly stated: > >> And on that topic, does anyone know if there's a way to restore a copy >> of Apple II Choplifter? >Ack, no. Your best bet is to find the original and do a nybble copy. Well I've never said my Apple knowledge was vast. What's a "nybble copy"? Is that some copying program I'm unfamiliar with or a specific method? -- Lee K. Seitz * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * http://home.hiwaay.net/~lkseitz/ Wanted: | Visit the Classic Video Games Nexus Vintage Pac-M*n necktie| for all your classic link & news needs! Lib*rator T-shirt |http://start.at/cvgnexus -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Disk Restoration
>Also, is there an issue shrinkwrap crushing the box? This is a common >argument against shrinkwrap in the classic video games newsgroup. I >imagine it depends on the thickness of the box material and other >factors. Of course, many computer game boxes are thicker than video >game boxes and intended to be kept rather than thrown out after being >opened. I may have brought this up, since it does happen... ask TomMage how many of the flimsy boxed games in his lot of 1+ are bent and warped from the years of pressure under the shrink. My vote on this is to go the way action-figure collectors went with batteries: Better to puncture the wrap a little than to have the whole package mangled out of shape. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Disk Restoration
"Lee K. Seitz" wrote: > > Jim Leonard boldly stated: > > > >Do *NOT* use Norton on them yet -- Norton will write bad data back to the disk > >if it can't read it either, forever sealing your chances of reading the disk. > >If you need the data restored, let me/us know the name of the program and we > >might have a cracked version in a .zip somewhere. Or, send the disks to me (if > >you trust me ;-) and I can do some non-destructive reconstruction onto a blank > >disk with my Option Board. > > Of course I trust you. (The *trust* word was used as a bit of a jab on myself -- Chris lent me The President Is Missing's cassette for duplication and it took me 3 weeks to get it back to him. Whoops!) > The games are Corporate Raider and Inside Trader. > I probably need help with Money Bags, too. And there's a > copy of Super Pac-Man that won't work off my computer around here if > you happen to have a cracked copy of that. I'll probably include them > in that long overdue package of magazines and such for you to try to > fix and send back. Do that, since I don't have any of them except maybe Corporate Raider. I'll wait for the package. > And on that topic, does anyone know if there's a way to restore a copy > of Apple II Choplifter? My original copy (which was the very first > game (not counting MasterType) my family bought for our Apple II back > in the early '80s) has died! I loved the sounds the disk drive made > when you booted it up. Ack, no. Your best bet is to find the original and do a nybble copy. I know what you mean about the sounds the drive made: My first purchased PC game was Pinball Construction Set. The gradual, interlaced display of the "EOA" logo to the tune of "chunk--chunk--chunk--chunk--chk-chk-chk-chk--WONK" when the disk booted will never leave my brain cells. > >> What if the program came on a 5.25" disk with no notch (to prevent writing to >it)? Would they insist the new disk also not have a notch? > > > >Unless you break your drive to write to notchless disks, I don't think many > >collectors will go *that* far. There are limits to the practicality of it > >all. I say this with the understanding that you will ignore the fact that I > >indeed have a "broken" drive and a box of disks without notches... > > Is this really that complicated a thing to do? I'd think finding a > notchless disk would be the more difficult part. I have a cache of worthless applications disks (some database or something) that I rip the labels off of. > >I personally inherited thousands of DSDDs from a school; they threw away their > >Apple II systems (NOO!) and I salvaged the disks. I easily have 2000 in > >bags, with and without sleeves, so I'm not worried about running out any time > >soon. > > Have you contributed images of all the sleeves to > http://www.cyberden.com/sleeves/? 8) :-) I'm sure they have everything I do. In fact, the only ones worth having in my opinion are Electronic Arts (logo was ahead of its time) and, of course, Beagle Bros. (do not fold, spindle, or mutiliate) > Should I recount my story of when I first started using a PC, notched > my disk and formatted both sides? Oh, I guess I just did. You can do this if you format them single-sided, actually. :) -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive historical PC gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Disk Restoration
Jim Leonard boldly stated: > >Do *NOT* use Norton on them yet -- Norton will write bad data back to the disk >if it can't read it either, forever sealing your chances of reading the disk. >If you need the data restored, let me/us know the name of the program and we >might have a cracked version in a .zip somewhere. Or, send the disks to me (if >you trust me ;-) and I can do some non-destructive reconstruction onto a blank >disk with my Option Board. Of course I trust you. The games are Corporate Raider and Inside Trader. I probably need help with Money Bags, too. And there's a copy of Super Pac-Man that won't work off my computer around here if you happen to have a cracked copy of that. I'll probably include them in that long overdue package of magazines and such for you to try to fix and send back. >> Would moving the original label on to a freshly made copy of the disk be >satisfactory? > >For my purposes, yes. Even if the copy-protection were still intact (ie. an >EXACT copy). That is what I meant. Which reminds me, I've got a copy of Apple II Auto Duel that's had some graphics files corrupted. And did I back it up like the manual said? Of course not! And on that topic, does anyone know if there's a way to restore a copy of Apple II Choplifter? My original copy (which was the very first game (not counting MasterType) my family bought for our Apple II back in the early '80s) has died! I loved the sounds the disk drive made when you booted it up. >> What if the program came on a 5.25" disk with no notch (to prevent writing to it)? >Would they insist the new disk also not have a notch? > >Unless you break your drive to write to notchless disks, I don't think many >collectors will go *that* far. There are limits to the practicality of it >all. I say this with the understanding that you will ignore the fact that I >indeed have a "broken" drive and a box of disks without notches... Is this really that complicated a thing to do? I'd think finding a notchless disk would be the more difficult part. >> Would notching a previously unnotched disk to re-write the data to it impact its >value? > >I don't think so. In fact, I think this would become an acceptable >"restoration" process, especially if the new data were an exact copy of the >original data (which has such "feel-good" features like the original untainted >high-score list, the copy-protection still intact, etc.) I dunno. At this level of pickiness, it might make a difference to the collector. >I personally inherited thousands of DSDDs from a school; they threw away their >Apple II systems (NOO!) and I salvaged the disks. I easily have 2000 in >bags, with and without sleeves, so I'm not worried about running out any time >soon. Have you contributed images of all the sleeves to http://www.cyberden.com/sleeves/? 8) >> for a long time, but a true disk notcher takes less time.) What other >> systems also had people notching & flipping disks? > >C64, Atari 400/800, Apple II are the ones that come to mind, although surely >there must be more. Should I recount my story of when I first started using a PC, notched my disk and formatted both sides? Oh, I guess I just did. -- Lee K. Seitz * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * http://home.hiwaay.net/~lkseitz/ Wanted: | Visit the Classic Video Games Nexus Vintage Pac-M*n necktie| for all your classic link & news needs! Lib*rator T-shirt |http://start.at/cvgnexus -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Disk Restoration
C.E. Forman boldly stated: > >I suspected Jim was a bit strange when he said he breaks shrinkwrap. I've seen this mentioned a few times, and at the risk of ruining whatever small, dubious reputation I might have worked up here, I'm in favor of breaking shrinkwrap, too. (In most cases.) I picked up a copy of Star Saga: One for the Apple II that still has the manuals inside shrinked. One day (who knows when), I'm planning on inviting some friends over, breaking them open, and playing the game. Also, is there an issue shrinkwrap crushing the box? This is a common argument against shrinkwrap in the classic video games newsgroup. I imagine it depends on the thickness of the box material and other factors. Of course, many computer game boxes are thicker than video game boxes and intended to be kept rather than thrown out after being opened. -- Lee K. Seitz * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * http://home.hiwaay.net/~lkseitz/ Wanted: | Visit the Classic Video Games Nexus Vintage Pac-M*n necktie| for all your classic link & news needs! Lib*rator T-shirt |http://start.at/cvgnexus -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Disk Restoration
"C.E. Forman" wrote: > > >>Would moving the original label on to a freshly made copy of the disk be > >>satisfactory? > > > >For my purposes, yes. Even if the copy-protection were still intact (ie. > an > >EXACT copy). > > I suspected Jim was a bit strange when he said he breaks shrinkwrap. > But nothing can compare to *wanting* the evil copy-protection schemes > left intact... being interrupted to insert the original disk for > verification, > and *liking* it! > > You are a total nutball, Jim. B-) I am. I won't deny it. But I have a very practical reason for this: A lot of early booter copy-protection was in two stages: A simple one at the beginning of the game, and a more complex sinister one that was implemented toward the end of the game. A lot of early cracks are *worthless* because of this, and your "cracked" copy becomes worthless when you actually try to play the game. Pirates! is a prime example: If you get past the first level of protection, it seems like the game is fine but you later find that you cannot win any scenarios. -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive historical PC gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Disk Restoration
>>Would moving the original label on to a freshly made copy of the disk be >>satisfactory? > >For my purposes, yes. Even if the copy-protection were still intact (ie. an >EXACT copy). I suspected Jim was a bit strange when he said he breaks shrinkwrap. But nothing can compare to *wanting* the evil copy-protection schemes left intact... being interrupted to insert the original disk for verification, and *liking* it! You are a total nutball, Jim. B-) -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Disk Restoration
"Lee K. Seitz" wrote: > > Earlier this week I decided to go back and buy the two other Cosmi > games I'd mentioned finding earlier for myself, since no one else was > interested. I was disappointed to find the disks don't seem to be > readable. (I can get a directory listing most of the time, but > nothing beyond that. I haven't tried using Norton Utilities on them > yet.) Do *NOT* use Norton on them yet -- Norton will write bad data back to the disk if it can't read it either, forever sealing your chances of reading the disk. If you need the data restored, let me/us know the name of the program and we might have a cracked version in a .zip somewhere. Or, send the disks to me (if you trust me ;-) and I can do some non-destructive reconstruction onto a blank disk with my Option Board. > This crossed paths in my mind with an article I'd recently read about > comic book restoration. Do you think one day there will be > professional software restorationists? The tools for restoring the > manuals and paperwork would be more or less the same as those > currently in use for books and such, I assume. (Although the glossy > paper used for many manuals may cause problems.) Anything is possible, although this hobby is still in its infancy too much to tell. There is already a 3-yr-old "market" of people who take copy-protected games, bootable games, etc. and make them playable from a hard drive without the original disks. I am one of those people. > But what about the disks? Will the hardcore collectors one day insist > on having working disk(s) for each package? How original will they > have to be? Would moving the original label on to a freshly made copy > of the disk be satisfactory? What if the program came on a 5.25" disk > with no notch (to prevent writing to it)? Would they insist the new > disk also not have a notch? Would notching a previously unnotched > disk to re-write the data to it impact its value? Or, much like what > I seem to see today, just having the code, whether it's on the > original media or not, be satisfactory? Am I just asking weird > questions no one will ever care about? I care deeply! Too deeply, my wife would say. In any case, here's my answers to your questions: > But what about the disks? Will the hardcore collectors one day insist on having >working disk(s) for each package? I do. Well, I will settle for a non-working disk, or a copy, but it's worth more to me personally if the original disks are intact. > Would moving the original label on to a freshly made copy of the disk be >satisfactory? For my purposes, yes. Even if the copy-protection were still intact (ie. an EXACT copy). > What if the program came on a 5.25" disk with no notch (to prevent writing to it)? >Would they insist the new disk also not have a notch? Unless you break your drive to write to notchless disks, I don't think many collectors will go *that* far. There are limits to the practicality of it all. I say this with the understanding that you will ignore the fact that I indeed have a "broken" drive and a box of disks without notches... > Would notching a previously unnotched disk to re-write the data to it impact its >value? I don't think so. In fact, I think this would become an acceptable "restoration" process, especially if the new data were an exact copy of the original data (which has such "feel-good" features like the original untainted high-score list, the copy-protection still intact, etc.) > Or, much like what I seem to see today, just having the code, whether it's on the >original media or not, be satisfactory? That is satisfactory to most people, actually. I am one of the odd ones. > On a similar note, are they still making double density disks, > particularly 5.25"? (I don't even know anything about the density of > 8" disks. They were before my time.) I saw several unopened packages > of blank, 5.25" DD disks at a thrift store yesterday, should I start > hording them? Will blank disks go bad over time or will freshly > reformatting them before using them make everything okay? We touched on the life of disks in a previous thread; check the archives. I think that DSDD disks are indeed still being made; up until a year ago, you could buy them at Walmart. I would keep about 50 on hand. I personally inherited thousands of DSDDs from a school; they threw away their Apple II systems (NOO!) and I salvaged the disks. I easily have 2000 in bags, with and without sleeves, so I'm not worried about running out any time soon. > And am I the only one that still has their disk notcher to use the > backside of floppies on their Apple II? (I used a simple hole punch I just found mine last week! What a coincidence. > for a long time, but a true disk notcher takes less time.) What other > systems also had people notching & flipping disks? C64, Atari 400/800, Apple II are the ones that come to mind, although surely there must be more. > A
Re: [SWCollect] Disk Restoration
>This crossed paths in my mind with an article I'd recently read about >comic book restoration. Do you think one day there will be >professional software restorationists? The tools for restoring the >manuals and paperwork would be more or less the same as those >currently in use for books and such, I assume. (Although the glossy >paper used for many manuals may cause problems.) Assuming the hobby grows to the point where such a trade can be profitable, yeah, I'd say there'll eventually be software restorationists. I already know one guy in Germany who uses matching eyeliner to recolor the white patches left by wear. >But what about the disks? Will the hardcore collectors one day insist >on having working disk(s) for each package? How original will they >have to be? Would moving the original label on to a freshly made copy >of the disk be satisfactory? What if the program came on a 5.25" disk >with no notch (to prevent writing to it)? Would they insist the new >disk also not have a notch? Would notching a previously unnotched >disk to re-write the data to it impact its value? Or, much like what >I seem to see today, just having the code, whether it's on the >original media or not, be satisfactory? Am I just asking weird >questions no one will ever care about? There is *no* weird question that I don't care about. B-) The thing collectors have to face with disk media is that, sooner or later, it's going to deteriorate to the point where the data can't be read. So eventually, 40 - 50 years down the line, playing off an ORIGINAL-original disk will become impossible. Even now, I suspect a lot of collectors play off self-made copies, to preserve the originals as much as possible. While I'm sure there are some purists who would want an original, non-rewritten disk, I suspect the overwhelming majority would settle for a working copy running on the original hardware. Or even an emulator is better than not playing the game at all. Fortunately, software is eternal, even if the media it's stored on is not. >And am I the only one that still has their disk notcher to use the >backside of floppies on their Apple II? (I used a simple hole punch >for a long time, but a true disk notcher takes less time.) What other >systems also had people notching & flipping disks? I still have mine, though I haven't used it in years. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Disk Restoration
In a message dated 09/08/2000 9:01:49 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << And am I the only one that still has their disk notcher to use the backside of floppies on their Apple II? (I used a simple hole punch for a long time, but a true disk notcher takes less time.) What other systems also had people notching & flipping disks? >> Heck of COURSE I still have my disk notcher :) Then again I also have an Apple ][e and a C128 setup and running. Tom -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
[SWCollect] Disk Restoration
Earlier this week I decided to go back and buy the two other Cosmi games I'd mentioned finding earlier for myself, since no one else was interested. I was disappointed to find the disks don't seem to be readable. (I can get a directory listing most of the time, but nothing beyond that. I haven't tried using Norton Utilities on them yet.) This crossed paths in my mind with an article I'd recently read about comic book restoration. Do you think one day there will be professional software restorationists? The tools for restoring the manuals and paperwork would be more or less the same as those currently in use for books and such, I assume. (Although the glossy paper used for many manuals may cause problems.) But what about the disks? Will the hardcore collectors one day insist on having working disk(s) for each package? How original will they have to be? Would moving the original label on to a freshly made copy of the disk be satisfactory? What if the program came on a 5.25" disk with no notch (to prevent writing to it)? Would they insist the new disk also not have a notch? Would notching a previously unnotched disk to re-write the data to it impact its value? Or, much like what I seem to see today, just having the code, whether it's on the original media or not, be satisfactory? Am I just asking weird questions no one will ever care about? On a similar note, are they still making double density disks, particularly 5.25"? (I don't even know anything about the density of 8" disks. They were before my time.) I saw several unopened packages of blank, 5.25" DD disks at a thrift store yesterday, should I start hording them? Will blank disks go bad over time or will freshly reformatting them before using them make everything okay? And am I the only one that still has their disk notcher to use the backside of floppies on their Apple II? (I used a simple hole punch for a long time, but a true disk notcher takes less time.) What other systems also had people notching & flipping disks? Are you guys sick of my questions yet? -- Lee K. Seitz * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * http://home.hiwaay.net/~lkseitz/ Wanted: | Visit the Classic Video Games Nexus Vintage Pac-M*n necktie| for all your classic link & news needs! Lib*rator T-shirt |http://start.at/cvgnexus -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
