Re: [SWCollect] MobyScale question
Jim Leonard stated: Yep: http://www.mobygames.com/info/MobyScale Is this link not in the version you have? If not, it may not be the most current. Rather than try to dig up my own copy, I just searched on Google. This link isn't indexed by Google, nor does it seem to have any pages linking to it. So it appears no one has the complete, latest version of the document on their sites except you. BTW, this is the one thing that bothers me about MobyGames. It's often hard to find non-database content. For example, when I start a new game entry, there's a link to new game style-guide. But what usually happens is I get down to the description and want to add a Moby tag. So then I go look for a link to the style-guide and can't find one because the Game Wizard is the only place it appears. -- Lee K. Seitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect;oldskool.org/
RE: [SWCollect] MobyScale question
I would say that yes; the book is ED. However, if you're using the abbreviated form and grading the entire contents of the game with one grade, I would not list the entire contents as ED. If everything else was F (for example), it might bring down the contents to VG or G (it's subjective, of course). I only grade contents as a whole, so I don't get into grading disks separately from sleeves, but I would certainly mention the sleeves as missing in the notes and would use MMC for the box contents. Since you're already going a step further and detailing out specific contents, I'd say it's up to you to decide what to apply the scale to. As long as it isn't misleading, do what you want. Hugh -Original Message- From: Lee K. Seitz [mailto:lkseitz;mail.hiwaay.net] Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 9:27 PM To: Software Collecting Subject: [SWCollect] MobyScale question Jim and anyone else that wants to chime in, Please make sure I'm using the MobyScale right. I have a copy of Ultima IV where the Book of Magic has been written in. Spell components were underlined (in pen) and many pages have a series of letters written at the top (e.g. A, D, E). The last three pages, which should be blank, have been written in a great deal. Does this make this book ED? Another question: should disks and sleeves be graded together or separately. This same package has the original disks with wear, but they're not in the original sleeves. Should I list them as Disks: G/MMC? (I'd probably put a note after that explaining the rating.) Also, is there not an official page for the MobyScale at MobyGames.com? I can't find one and Google returns the ones at YOIS and GOTCHA. -- Lee K. Seitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect;oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect;oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Mobyscale
1. Personally I never use [MS(T)]. A tear in the wrap exposes the package to scuffing, shelf wear, oxygen, etc., just as if it were off completely torn off. Hence the best rating I will use with the T modifier is NM. (In other words, I use mint-sealed to mean no defects not only with the package, but also with the wrap itself.) 2. I'd rate an OEM game the same way as a loose disk or prop, just one score for the individual item. 3. There may not be enough signed packages going up for sale to make it very widely used. I'd probably just note this in the description, probablyl with bold/red highlight. (Incidentally, I have yet to sell a signed package because I never *find* them pre-signed, and I always promise the authors who autograph my copies that I won't resell them.) -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Mobyscale
Hugh Falk wrote: My take: - The circular hole is generally intentional and is not a defect in any way. It would be classified as MS. In fact, that hole is a good indicator of original shrinkwrap. If it is a PERFECT circular (or oval) hole. An irregular one larger than 1cm in diameter is probably not original MS. BTW, in case anyone missed it, the MobyScale has a permanent home (although you're all quite welcome to reprint it): http://www.mobygames.com/info/MobyScale -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED])http://www.oldskool.org/ Want to help an ambitious PC games project? Drop by http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.demodvd.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
RE: [SWCollect] Mobyscale
My take: - The circular hole is generally intentional and is not a defect in any way. It would be classified as MS. In fact, that hole is a good indicator of original shrinkwrap. - I add descriptive notes to the title. For example Winger Commander (OEM) vs Wing Commander. - Same for autographs: Prince of Persia 3D (Signed) Actually I also do that for package variations: Starcross (Saucer), Deadline (Folio) Personally I think the title is the place for all of this information because it is what differentiate is from a different SKU. Hugh -Original Message- From: MASTER [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Pedro Quaresma Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 5:42 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [SWCollect] Mobyscale I apologize to bring this up here, as this was probably discussed about 2873468234 times before, but I have decided to move on with the times and classify my entire collection with the Mobyscale. 3 issues arose: - I know the (T) modifier is used for [MS] games that have small tears on the shrinkwrap. But what happens if a [MS] has a small circular hole on the shrinkwrap, most probably due not to shrinkwrap damage but to any mistake in the shrinkwrap process? Does it become [MS(T)] or should it stay as [MS]? - How should the package of an OEM game be classified? [IM/...] doesn't sound right, and simply omitting it doesn't sound right either because we should be able to differentiate OEM games that are still shrinkwrapped (And I don't think simply [MS] for the shrinkwrapped ones would cut it either). - Anyone ever considered an Autographed by Author modifier? It's not an indication of value and although it's writing on box/manual/whatever, it's obviously not ED! Note: As you noticed, I'm using above the YOIS abbreviated format of the Mobyscale. Hope you don't mind, Chris :) Regards, P. Pedro R. Quaresma [EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED] So long, and thanks for all the fish Novos Serviços Após-Venda Toyota http://www.toyota.pt -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] MobyScale 1.0!
Ack, I can't believe I didn't thank everyone as well. Thanks to all that contributed comments, no matter how large or small! Hugh Falk wrote: It looks awesome! And is now up on my site as well. Thanks Jim...and thanks to all who helped make this possible. -Original Message- From: Jim Leonard [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 6:55 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:[SWCollect] MobyScale 1.0! "C.E. Forman" wrote: I wonder how you get through the day NOT supporting BM. ;-) BM is optional, you said so yourself. I choose not to use it. B-) All BM jokes notwithstanding, here is loud trumpet fanfare MobyScale version 1.0! This is the version to run with; it's official. I'll be converting text on MobyGames' list section to match these. No doubt there will be a typo here or a comment there; I will amend 1.0 to something like 1.0.1 when/if it occurs. Enjoy! -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive historical PC gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive historical PC gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
RE: [SWCollect] MobyScale 1.0!
It looks awesome! And is now up on my site as well. Thanks Jim...and thanks to all who helped make this possible. -Original Message- From: Jim Leonard [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 6:55 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:[SWCollect] MobyScale 1.0! "C.E. Forman" wrote: I wonder how you get through the day NOT supporting BM. ;-) BM is optional, you said so yourself. I choose not to use it. B-) All BM jokes notwithstanding, here is loud trumpet fanfare MobyScale version 1.0! This is the version to run with; it's official. I'll be converting text on MobyGames' list section to match these. No doubt there will be a typo here or a comment there; I will amend 1.0 to something like 1.0.1 when/if it occurs. Enjoy! -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive historical PC gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
[SWCollect] MobyScale 1.0!
"C.E. Forman" wrote: I wonder how you get through the day NOT supporting BM. ;-) BM is optional, you said so yourself. I choose not to use it. B-) All BM jokes notwithstanding, here is loud trumpet fanfare MobyScale version 1.0! This is the version to run with; it's official. I'll be converting text on MobyGames' list section to match these. No doubt there will be a typo here or a comment there; I will amend 1.0 to something like 1.0.1 when/if it occurs. Enjoy! -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive historical PC gaming database project. The Official MobyGames Software Collectables Condition Grading Scale Version 1.0 The inevitable legal notice: This document and its contents is Copyright 2000, MobyGames.com. It was authored by Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]), based on a scale created by Hugh Falk, which in turn was based on a record album grading scale of unknown origin. Any questions, comments, or suggestions should be directed to the author. You are free to copy, translate, reformat, and retransmit this text as long as these notices are included and the content is left unchanged. - Background: The world of software collectables is an emerging hobby that is slowly easing into the mainstream. However, being so new, there is no standard scale for grading the condition of an item, which can lead to the misrepresentation of an item's value. Before this grading scale was formed, a multitude of other grading notations were found: One list used a single rating for the entire item, another used a numerical rating for quality grades, yet another wildly overused the term "MINT!", etc. This lack of standardization can lead to confusion when trying to assess an item's value based solely on a textual description of the item. Which grading scale is the right one? MobyGames.com believes there's a better way to do this, and has created a standard grading scale and specification for cataloging software for collection lists. This system is officially in place at MobyGames.com, but it is our hope that it is embraced by the collector community and used universally to describe item condition. Through widespread acceptance of this scale, we hope to eliminate misconceptions and confusion in the software collectable community. This document describes The Official MobyGames Software Collectables Condition Grading Scale and its use and application. For brevity, the condition grading scale will be abbreviated as "MobyGames Grading Scale" throughout the remainder of this text. Also included at the end of the document are some frequently-asked questions, and an example collector's list to illustrate the system in use. - Item Breakdown: Before describing the actual scale, it is important to define how the scale itself is used. A common practice for new collectors is to assess the overall quality of an item and give it a singular value. This may save the collector time, but creates confusion for other collectors attempting to view his list. This is because not everyone values certain aspects of an item the same. For example, one collector may value the condition of the box above all else, while another may value the manual and included trinkets/props/feelies higher than the box. Because of differing opinions of value, it is usually inappropriate to give items one overall grade. The solution to this is to apply a grade to as many pieces of the item that are relevant. This creates more work, but is the only way to ensure accuracy and avoid unintentionally misleading people who read your lists. For example, the most common pieces of a software collectable are: - Box/Packaging - Original Media - Manual - Reference Sheet - Catalog - Registration Card - Additional Items (listed individually) The more pieces that are graded, the better the representation of the item. So while you can get away with a single grade for the entire item, a suggested minimum would be two grades: One for the Box/Packaging, and another for all other materials contained in that item. Note: You can still use and advertise the MobyScale if you only list a single grade for the overall item -- but it is highly recommended that you provide at least two grades (usually one grade for the box, and another for its contents). Other collectors will thank you for it. - Condition Grades: The following are the official condition grades of the MobyGames Grading Scale. The possible conditions an item can be in are: - Mint Sealed (MS): No noticable defects and sealed in original factory or store shrinkwrap or sticker. The best grade possible. - Near Mint (NM): No noticable defects, but not sealed. - Fine (F): One or two slight defects (small scratch, slight worn corner on box, etc.)
RE: [SWCollect] MobyScale 0.3.0 -- please review
That was it for me. -Original Message- From: Jim Leonard [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 8:08 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:Re: [SWCollect] MobyScale 0.3.0 -- please review "Lee K. Seitz" wrote: Jim Leonard boldly stated: Each grade can also have a modifier associated with it: - Sealed (S): Sealed with original factory (or store) shrinkwrap or sticker. - Compressed (C): Package has been crushed or compressed. - Torn Wrap (T): Sealed package has tears in the shrinkwrap. - Item Missing (IM): Package is incomplete, missing one or more items from the - Missing Minor Component (MMC): Package is missing a minor component. Minor - Bad Media (BM): Diskette media is known to be bad or defective. Let me see if I have this straight. 1. The S and T modifiers are only used for grading an unopened package. Yes. 2. The C modifier is mainly for unopened packages, although you might arguably use it when rating a box. (Will this lead to people (incorrectly, IMO) rating boxes as "NM, (C)"?) It would be incorrect to rate something NM (C) since a slightly crushed box does not qualify as near mint. 3. The IM and MMC modifiers are used when grading an entire package, although from the examples IM can be used as a separate "grade" when there's no item of which to state the condition. Uh, I don't understand what you mean by "IM can be used as a separate "grade" when there's no item of which to state the condition", so I guess I'll leave that alone. ? 4. The BM modifier is for whole packages or media. So I could have a Yep. The package has to have been opened to use BM, of course. MS or any (S) can't possibly be known to have or not have bad media. disk and label that looks Near Mint but doesn't work, so it would be "NM, (BM)". Yep. BTW, the description should say "Software media." Not all software comes on diskette. There's also tapes, cartridges, CD-ROMs, DVD-ROMs, etc. Good point; I've made that change. Hugh, anything else to add? -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive historical PC gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] MobyScale 0.3.0 -- please review
Jim Leonard boldly stated: 3. The IM and MMC modifiers are used when grading an entire package, although from the examples IM can be used as a separate "grade" when there's no item of which to state the condition. Uh, I don't understand what you mean by "IM can be used as a separate "grade" when there's no item of which to state the condition", so I guess I'll leave that alone. ? I meant that instead of a true "grade," you can use *only* the "modifier" IM as the items grade. (As per at least one of the examples.) I probably didn't need to bother to even mention it. 4. The BM modifier is for whole packages or media. So I could have a Yep. The package has to have been opened to use BM, of course. MS or any (S) can't possibly be known to have or not have bad media. What, you aren't clairvoyant? 8) disk and label that looks Near Mint but doesn't work, so it would be "NM, (BM)". Yep. Did I mention I much prefer that to rating a disk that doesn't work but looks great as ED? -- Lee K. Seitz * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * http://home.hiwaay.net/~lkseitz/ Wanted: | Visit the Classic Video Games Nexus Vintage Pac-M*n necktie| for all your classic link news needs! Lib*rator T-shirt |http://start.at/cvgnexus -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] MobyScale 0.3.0 -- please review
Okay, you've convinced me. Makes sense. I do have to say, though... use BM when you know it because that condition affects the value to some collectors. [...] I guess the point of BM (and why I support it) [...] Ultimately, you can ignore BM if you don't think you'll never need/use it. ..Hehehehehehe, I'm sorry, Jim, but I just about busted a gut reading about how you support BM, but how some of us may never need it, etc... LOL... God, I'm sorry, I just can't help it... B-) -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] MobyScale 0.3.0 -- please review
Jim Leonard boldly stated: Each grade can also have a modifier associated with it: - Sealed (S): Sealed with original factory (or store) shrinkwrap or sticker. - Compressed (C): Package has been crushed or compressed. - Torn Wrap (T): Sealed package has tears in the shrinkwrap. - Item Missing (IM): Package is incomplete, missing one or more items from the - Missing Minor Component (MMC): Package is missing a minor component. Minor - Bad Media (BM): Diskette media is known to be bad or defective. Let me see if I have this straight. 1. The S and T modifiers are only used for grading an unopened package. 2. The C modifier is mainly for unopened packages, although you might arguably use it when rating a box. (Will this lead to people (incorrectly, IMO) rating boxes as "NM, (C)"?) 3. The IM and MMC modifiers are used when grading an entire package, although from the examples IM can be used as a separate "grade" when there's no item of which to state the condition. 4. The BM modifier is for whole packages or media. So I could have a disk and label that looks Near Mint but doesn't work, so it would be "NM, (BM)". BTW, the description should say "Software media." Not all software comes on diskette. There's also tapes, cartridges, CD-ROMs, DVD-ROMs, etc. -- Lee K. Seitz * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * http://home.hiwaay.net/~lkseitz/ Wanted: | Visit the Classic Video Games Nexus Vintage Pac-M*n necktie| for all your classic link news needs! Lib*rator T-shirt |http://start.at/cvgnexus -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] MobyScale 0.3.0 -- please review
"C.E. Forman" wrote: Looks great to me. No problem with the not-in-all-packages items, I can do without and it'd be less confusing anyway. Any last-minute changes, speak up now! I have no further changes... anyone else? -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive historical PC gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] MobyScale 1.0?
C.E. Forman boldly stated: Also, an optional modifier we might consider adding is one for those = rare items included in some, but not all, game packages, for example the = lapel pin and Ral Partha order form in the first 5000 copies of = Infocom's "BattleTech: The Crescent Hawk's Inception", and the poster = I've heard is in some of Interplay's "Dragon Wars". Since these items = were not normally included in all packages, a package can still be = considered complete without them... although one that does have them is far more = desirable and could stand to be noted as such. LMK what you think. I'm not sure there's a good way to generically indicate this. I think it would have to require knowledge that an interested party might not have. I didn't know about your two examples, for instance. The only example I can think of is the extra "limited edition" booklet that was included with the first release of X-Wing. (I've got that one.) On this topic, anyone have a complete collection of all the badges that came with Ogre (based on the Steve Jackson board game)? If you don't know what I'm talking about, there was about six different badge designs and each package only contained one badge. -- Lee K. Seitz * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * http://home.hiwaay.net/~lkseitz/ Wanted: | Visit the Classic Video Games Nexus Vintage Pac-M*n necktie| for all your classic link news needs! Lib*rator T-shirt |http://start.at/cvgnexus -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
RE: [SWCollect] MobyScale 0.2.8
Okay, I am getting around to converting my scale to Moby Scale and I have a few discrepancies that I wanted to bring up. I'm not saying we need to address these in the scale, but if we don't, I will likely deviate slightly to accommodate these. They all deal with modifiers, and since they are just additional information, I don't think the deviation would be too bad. Then again, since they are just additional information, I don't think it would hurt to include them, and they can be ignored by those who don't want to be more specific. In my old scale, 'Sealed' was a grade, which could have two modifiers: (C) -- for Compressed and (T) -- for slightly Torn wrap. A game could also have both. Now, Sealed is a modifier. For example, NM (Sealed). However, I would like to convert my current "Sealed (C)" to "NM (Sealed) (C)". In other words, I would like to keep (C) and (T) as modifiers. This way I can tell why a sealed game isn't considered "MS" -- Mint Sealed. I had one other Modifier I would like to use: MMC, which is described below: Missing Minor Component (MMC) -- This tag can be attached in conjunction with any other condition (e.g. VG+ (MMC)). This is to denote that a relatively insignificant part of the complete package is missing. Examples include: warranty cards, product catalog, one sheet of blank graph paper (from a complete pad), one of two identical items (e.g. pens). Generally MMC would be applied to any item that, if missing, wouldn't detract from the game playing experience. I would like to keep this one as well. As you can see, it isn't the same as IM (Item Missing). My term for IM was MC (Missing Component), which I used if things like the box or manual were missing. I think there is still a place for MMC. Thoughts? Hugh -Original Message- From: Jim Leonard [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, September 29, 2000 6:36 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:[SWCollect] MobyScale 0.2.8 Fresh and piping hot: -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive historical PC gaming database project. File: MobyScale.txt -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] MobyScale 0.25
C.E. Forman boldly stated: Sold a guy a shrinked "Hitchhiker's Guide", which he proceeded to open (the horror! The HORROR!!), and found there was no fluff inside. Original shrink, had the sticker to prove it. Just tell him the situation called for him to put on his peril-sensitive sunglasses and then he wouldn't notice. OR Tell him that, in order to make it up to him, you'd already included "no tea" in the package free of charge. Sorry, couldn't resist. -- Lee K. Seitz * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * http://home.hiwaay.net/~lkseitz/ Wanted: | Visit the Classic Video Games Nexus Vintage Pac-M*n necktie| for all your classic link news needs! Lib*rator T-shirt |http://start.at/cvgnexus -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] MobyScale 0.25
Sorry; I thought this was implied, but we can't assume anything in defining this. I have made the modifications and the scale now stands at version 0.2.6. When the scale document stops getting modified for a week or so, I'll post it to the list again so that everyone has the most recent version. "Lee K. Seitz" wrote: Jim Leonard boldly stated: Note that, for all forms suggested above, there was only one grade listed for Mint Sealed items. This is because all pieces of a sealed item must also be in the same condition, since the item was never opened. This now needs to be changed. First, add some examples of items sealed but not mint. Then say something like this: Note that, for all forms suggested above, there was only one grade listed for Sealed items. Since the item was never opened, the condition of the contents cannot be determined. (Although you can make some assumptions from the condition of the box.) Just because the box is worn, doesn't mean the items inside are. Likewise, a MS box may turn out to somehow be missing items or to contain incorrect items (like the manual/disk/prop from a different piece of software). My wife bought (what appeared to be) a brand new copy of some recipe software and there was a copy of Calendar Creator inside, too. Nowhere on or in the box did it say anything about Calendar Creator. -- Lee K. Seitz * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * http://home.hiwaay.net/~lkseitz/ Wanted: | Visit the Classic Video Games Nexus Vintage Pac-M*n necktie| for all your classic link news needs! Lib*rator T-shirt |http://start.at/cvgnexus -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive historical PC gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: Vote (Was: Re: [SWCollect] MobyScale, version 0.2)
"Lee K. Seitz" wrote: Jim Leonard boldly stated: :) I'm trying to stay away from the term "Mint" since it's so overused/misused. Let's take a vote: Who here would like to see "Factory-Sealed" on the scale be renamed to "Mint Sealed"? A yay or nay from everyone will be enough. Yay. It's decided then: Sealed will be an additional modifier to a grade, and not a grade itself. I'll make this (fairly significant) change to the scale tonight and send it out. -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive historical PC gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] MobyScale 0.25
"C.E. Forman" wrote: Actually, one more little nagging change? Could we eliminate the hyphen altogether, making it "FP"? (Just so there's no chance of mix-up with "F".) Either way works for me, though, LMK your thoughts. I agree with that. Done (but I'll spare the list a resend until a more major change happens). -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive historical PC gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] MobyScale version 0.21
Question about "Fine": If we change it to "F", it will be the same as "Fair". ..or do "Fair" and "Poor" always go together, hence a single entry on the scale (F/P)? And if that's the case, would you mind if I wrote that as "F-P" on the Shoppe pages, as it's easier to decipher "F-P/NM" than "F/P/NM" when you're listing package and props using the abbreviated format? - Original Message - From: Jim Leonard [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 08, 2000 9:14 PM Subject: [SWCollect] MobyScale version 0.21 Slighly revised version of the scale; the Good and Fine abbreviations of GO and FI have been truncated to G and F to be consistent with most naming scales. Their meaning is the same. -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive historical PC gaming database project. The Official MobyGames Software Collectables Condition Grading Scale Version 0.2 The inevitable legal notice: This document and its contents is Copyright 2000, MobyGames.com. It was authored by Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]), based on a scale created by Hugh Falk, which in turn was based on a record album grading scale of unknown origin. Any questions, comments, or suggestions should be directed to the author. You are free to copy, translate, reformat, and retransmit this text as long as these notices are included and the meaning of the content is not changed. - Background: The world of software collectables is an emerging hobby that is slowly easing into the mainstream. However, being so new, there is no standard scale for grading the condition of an item, which can lead to misrepresentation of an item's value. For example, in dealing with other collectors, a multitude of grading notations have already been found: One list used a single rating for the entire item, another used a numerical rating for quality grades, yet another wildly overused the term "MINT!", etc. This lack of standardization can lead to confusion when trying to assess an item's value based solely on a textual description of the item. Which grading scale is the right one? MobyGames.com believes there's a better way to do this, and has created a standard grading scale and specification for cataloging software for collection lists. This system is officially in place at MobyGames.com, but it is our hope that it is embraced by the collector community and used universally to describe item condition. Through widespread acceptance of this scale, we hope to eliminate misconceptions and confusion in the software collectable community. This document describes The Official MobyGames Software Collectables Condition Grading Scale and its use and application. For brevity, the condition grading scale will be abbreviated as "MobyGames Grading Scale" throughout the remainder of this text. Also included at the end of the document are some frequently-asked questions, and an example collector's list to illustrate the system in use. - Item Breakdown: Before describing the actual scale, it is important to define how the scale itself is used. A common mistake for new collectors is to assess the overall quality of an item and give it a singular value. This may save the collector time, but creates confusion for other collectors attempting to view his list. This is because not everyone values certain aspects of an item the same. For example, one collector may value the condition of the box above all else, while another may value the manual and included trinkets/props/feelies higher than the box. Because of differing opinions of value, it is usually inappropriate to give items one overall grade. The solution to this is to apply a grade to as many pieces of the item that are relevant. This creates more work, but is the only way to ensure accuracy and avoid unintentionally misleading people who read your lists. For example, the most common pieces of a software collectable are: - Box/Packaging - Original Media - Manual - Reference Sheet - Catalog - Registration Card - Additional Items (listed individually) The more pieces that are graded, the better the representation of the item. A suggested minimum would be two grades: One for the Box/Packaging, and another for all other materials contained in that item. Also note that if an item is incomplete, it is appropriate to label it as such. The notation used for a missing piece is Item Missing (IM). - Condition Grades: The following are the official condition grades of the MobyGames Grading Scale. The
Re: Vote (Was: Re: [SWCollect] MobyScale, version 0.2)
Yea -- a sealed item can be both mint or utterly destroyed. "Mint sealed" adds a level of refinement to the grade. Chris Jim Leonard wrote: "C.E. Forman" wrote: Now that I think about it, if I were doing such a scale (and I've been thinking about formalizing my personal scale for video game cartridges for a long time), I would not make "factory sealed" a condition, but rather something that should be noted separately. (Partially as an explanation for why the contents weren't graded.) Hmm, would "Mint Sealed" be a better term? That would clarify that it's shrinkwrapped *and* mint (as opposed to "shrinkwrapped but my big fat uncle accidentally sat on it" B-). :) I'm trying to stay away from the term "Mint" since it's so overused/misused. Let's take a vote: Who here would like to see "Factory-Sealed" on the scale be renamed to "Mint Sealed"? A yay or nay from everyone will be enough. -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive historical PC gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: Vote (Was: Re: [SWCollect] MobyScale, version 0.2)
I second Hugh's opinion. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 10:22 PM Subject: RE: Vote (Was: Re: [SWCollect] MobyScale, version 0.2) Yay. Mint Sealed should be as close to perfect as possible. Anything less (crushing, etc.) should be dropped to a lower level...even if sealed (i.e. Fine Sealed). Sealed can be added to any grade: VG Sealed, G Sealed, etc. Since Sealed is really just additional information and not a grade on its own. Another note is that Mint should never be used on its own (without Sealed) since a game by definition is not Mint unless it is still sealed. The best grade for an opened package should be NM. Hugh -Original Message- From: Jim Leonard [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 11:24 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Vote (Was: Re: [SWCollect] MobyScale, version 0.2) "C.E. Forman" wrote: Now that I think about it, if I were doing such a scale (and I've been thinking about formalizing my personal scale for video game cartridges for a long time), I would not make "factory sealed" a condition, but rather something that should be noted separately. (Partially as an explanation for why the contents weren't graded.) Hmm, would "Mint Sealed" be a better term? That would clarify that it's shrinkwrapped *and* mint (as opposed to "shrinkwrapped but my big fat uncle accidentally sat on it" B-). :) I'm trying to stay away from the term "Mint" since it's so overused/misused. Let's take a vote: Who here would like to see "Factory-Sealed" on the scale be renamed to "Mint Sealed"? A yay or nay from everyone will be enough. -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive historical PC gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: Vote (Was: Re: [SWCollect] MobyScale, version 0.2)
Jim Leonard boldly stated: :) I'm trying to stay away from the term "Mint" since it's so overused/misused. Let's take a vote: Who here would like to see "Factory-Sealed" on the scale be renamed to "Mint Sealed"? A yay or nay from everyone will be enough. Yay. -- Lee K. Seitz * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * http://home.hiwaay.net/~lkseitz/ Wanted: | Visit the Classic Video Games Nexus Vintage Pac-M*n necktie| for all your classic link news needs! Lib*rator T-shirt |http://start.at/cvgnexus -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] MobyScale 0.1
That's a very good point, and I'll change the wording of that for version 0.3. Can I have your permission to quote sections of the above? Of course. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
[SWCollect] MobyScale, version 0.2
Here's an updated version of the Scale document, still a work in progress. The most significant change was based on a suggestion from Tom Hlavendy and Lee and others on the mailing list, which was to change "VG+" to a more specific grade. I agreed with him, so Very Good Plus (VG+) has been changed to Fine (FI). This should be even more clearer and eliminate possible confusion. (Note that the NUMBER of grades is still the same -- the meaning of VG+ didn't change, just the name of it.) I also added some example list entries; just free-form stuff off of the top of my head. If anyone can't read the ASCII text attachment, let me know. PS: MobyGames is still referring to "VG+", but I will fix this tonight as it's a simple database change. -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive historical PC gaming database project. The Official MobyGames Software Collectables Condition Grading Scale Version 0.2 - Background: The world of software collectables is an emerging hobby that is slowly easing into the mainstream. However, being so new, there is no standard scale for grading the condition of an item, which can lead to misrepresentation of an item's value. For example, in dealing with other collectors, a multitude of grading notations have already been found: One list used a single rating for the entire item, another used a numerical rating for quality grades, yet another wildly overused the term "MINT!", etc. This lack of standardization can lead to confusion when trying to assess an item's value based solely on a textual description of the item. Which grading scale is the right one? MobyGames.com believes there's a better way to do this, and has created a standard grading scale and specification for cataloging software for collection lists. This system is officially in place at MobyGames.com, but it is our hope that it is embraced by the collector community and used universally to describe item condition. Through widespread acceptance of this scale, we hope to eliminate misconceptions and confusion in the software collectable community. This document describes The Official MobyGames Software Collectables Condition Grading Scale and its use and application. For brevity, the condition grading scale will be abbreviated as "MobyGames Grading Scale" throughout the remainder of this text. Also included at the end of the document are some frequently-asked questions, and an example collector's list to illustrate the system in use. - Item Breakdown: Before describing the actual scale, it is important to define how the scale itself is used. A common mistake for new collectors is to assess the overall quality of an item and give it a singular value. This may save the collector time, but creates confusion for other collectors attempting to view his list. This is because not everyone values certain aspects of an item the same. For example, one collector may value the condition of the box above all else, while another may value the manual and included trinkets/props/feelies higher than the box. Because of differing opinions of value, it is usually inappropriate to give items one overall grade. The solution to this is to apply a grade to as many pieces of the item that are relevant. This creates more work, but is the only way to ensure accuracy and avoid unintentionally misleading people who read your lists. For example, the most common pieces of a software collectable are: - Box/Packaging - Original Media - Manual - Reference Sheet - Catalog - Registration Card - Additional Items (listed individually) The more pieces that are graded, the better the representation of the item. A suggested minimum would be two grades: One for the Box/Packaging, and another for all other materials contained in that item. Also note that if an item is incomplete, it is appropriate to label it as such. The notation used for a missing piece is Item Missing (IM). - Condition Grades: The following are the official condition grades of the MobyGames Grading Scale. The possible conditions an item can be in are: - Factory Sealed (FS): No noticable defects and sealed in original factory or store shrinkwrap or sticker. (Not to be confused with a re-wrapped previously-opened box.) The best grade possible. - Near Mint (NM): No noticable defects, but not sealed. - Fine (FI): One or two slight defects (small scratch, slight worn corner on box, etc.) that prevent a Near Mint rating. - Very Good (VG): More than one or two slight defects (slight crease in manual, all corners slightly worn, etc.). Still in acceptable condition. - Good (G): More severe defects (box slightly torn or crushed; noticable wear on media, manual, or other materials). Acceptable only if the item is
Re: [SWCollect] MobyScale 0.1
Jim Leonard boldly stated: The Official MobyGames Software Collectables Condition Grading Scale Version 0.1 - Background: another wildly overused the term "MINT!", etc. This lack of standardization can lead to confusion when trying to asses an item's value based solely ^ I think (sincerely hope) you meant "assess." 8) Condition Grades: - Very Good Plus (VG+): One or two slight defects (small scratch, or slight worn corner on box, etc.) that prevent a Near Mint rating. - Very Good (VG): More than a few defects (slight crease in manual, all corners slightly worn, etc.) but still in acceptable condition. Since you're asking, I really think you shouldn't have two conditions with such similar names. I think it will lead to confusion. Perhaps they should be FS, NM, VG, G, Fine, and Poor instead. (VG+ becomes VG, VG become G, G becomes Fine, and drop the Fair off F/P.) Q: Why only six grades? Six grades is fine with me. I use my own system for grading video game cartridges, boxes, and manuals which has only 5 major levels (well, maybe six, depending on how you look at it), and sometimes have problems deciding between two. Q: Why isn't "Rare" on the grading scale? ??? Did someone actually ask this? "The Official MobyGames Software Collectables Condition Grading Scale" is a mouthful, isn't it? :-) It's suggested that you merely tell other collectors, "I'm using the MobyScale." Hey, can I get credit for that? ;) I don't know how feasible it is, but my biggest suggestion is to create a page (and mention it in the text) that shows scans of items (primarily boxes) that demonstrate each condition. A picture really is worth 1000 words. If necessary, you might want to have closeups of the defects. -- Lee K. Seitz * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * http://home.hiwaay.net/~lkseitz/ Wanted: | Visit the Classic Video Games Nexus Vintage Pac-M*n necktie| for all your classic link news needs! Lib*rator T-shirt |http://start.at/cvgnexus -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] MobyScale 0.1
Chris: I made sure to describe Factory-Sealed to include original store-sealed packages as well, to cover early sealed Infocom games that never had *factory* seals. (Just out of curiousity, were there other publishers as well that relied on the store to do initial wraps?) Not to my knowledge. The Infocom greys were unique because you could either wrap the whole box, or just the inner tray (which is what Infocom did for some titles) so that the retailer could choose whether to leave the browsie part open for potential customers to skim through. - Good (G): More severe defects (box slightly torn or crushed) or minor missing components (reference card or catalog missing); acceptable only if the item is hard to find or highly desired by the collector. Again if you're using this to grade the overall package I'd personally prefer to avoid grouping missing ref cards in here, as they're minor and shouldn't significantly devalue an otherwise VG+/NM package. Maybe clarify this? I also noticed on Moby that you include "Item Missing" on the list. I know your system proposes rating individual components and that this is useful for indicating just what's missing in Moby's database. However I was wondering if you'd object if, for the Shoppe, I were to use "IM" as an extension to the normal ratings you've given above. See, let me explain: I was hoping to incorporate these ratings at the end of my item descriptions, but to keep the text detailing the specific defects. That way, somebody just browsing for a NM title could simply scan the ratings, check out the ones with "NM" and quickly screen out everything else. My concern is, while I want to use Moby's rating system, I don't want to have to essentially adopt Moby's *database* format in my descriptions, listing every prop, every condition for those props, etc. (The Shoppe page is long enough as it is, plus it'd be too time-consuming at the moment for me to go through and rewrite it all.) So I guess my question is, on the Shoppe page, could I have ratings such as: "VG, IM" to describe the whole package, and then detail why said item is "VG" and which items are missing, while still conforming to the Moby standard? Q: Why isn't "Rare" on the grading scale? A: "Rare" isn't an indication of condition; it's an indication of value. This is nit-picking, but I would like to point out that rare does not necessarily equal valuable, it merely equals hard-to-find. Example: Awhile back I bought a small stack of "Beatle Quest" games from the author for a low-low price. The game was only released in the UK, only for Commodore 64, only on cassette, the author's personal stock is now depleted, and I have less than 10 copies left. That's rare. But it's not valuable, because I still *have* those copies left -- nobody seems to want the damn thing, and the most I've ever gotten for one was $15. Quite a contrast from the Starcross saucer, of which far more were produced, but which consistently fetch $500+ at auction. It seems more to be the combination of scarcity and the number of collectors who want it that add up to a valuable game. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] MobyScale 0.1
Since you're asking, I really think you shouldn't have two conditions with such similar names. I think it will lead to confusion. Perhaps they should be FS, NM, VG, G, Fine, and Poor instead. (VG+ becomes VG, VG become G, G becomes Fine, and drop the Fair off F/P.) This is a good point, however in most collecting scales (coins, for instance) "Fine" is considered better than "Good". I'm pretty sure, anyway. I don't know how feasible it is, but my biggest suggestion is to create a page (and mention it in the text) that shows scans of items (primarily boxes) that demonstrate each condition. A picture really is worth 1000 words. If necessary, you might want to have closeups of the defects. This is a great idea! I have a large number of Infocom "Cutthroats" packages in varying condition that I could donate scans of. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
