[swinog] Notice of Copyright Infringement - How do you proceed?
Hello I just got in contact with the swiss advocate of a company who sends us such messages about our users sharring copyrighted content. I basicly wanted to tell him that he should proceed according to swiss law instead of bothering us with such messages. He told me that they made very good experience with such messages as according to his knowledge most ISP warn their users if they hear about them sharing copyrighted 'goods'. Their goal is not to sue anybody but just to show them they are not annonymous and hope they'll stop sharing. So ist this true? Do most of you guys issue warning to your users if you get such messages? Mit freundlichen Grüssen Benoit Panizzon -- I m p r o W a r e A G-Leiter Kundendienst __ Zurlindenstrasse 29 Tel +41 61 826 93 07 CH-4133 PrattelnFax +41 61 826 93 01 Schweiz Web http://www.imp.ch __ smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] Notice of Copyright Infringement - How do you proceed?
Benoit, List, On Fri, 14 Mar 2008, Benoit Panizzon wrote: So ist this true? Do most of you guys issue warning to your users if you get such messages? Sure, and as a customer I'd expect from my ISP to do the very same. As long as they just want you to be notified about this incident everything is fine. What you however should underline in your conversation with them is that you have no possibilities to prove or falsify their claim. (this might set you free from any liablity since they can not claim that 'you knew'). Passing the notice to your customer without interacting with the entity that sends you the notice would be the way I'd go. It is of course also important to inform your customer that you can won't verify this claim as it is none of your business as an ISP to check what data your customers are exchanging. After all it is very likely that your customer doesn't even know about this problem as many of those requests i have seen have been for boxes that have been abused by third parties due to security issues for random undesired stuff. As concerns requests like these in general I stick to the policy as long as there is no official document like a search warrant i advise the enquiring entity to use the regular correct legal process if there is such thing like a search warrant i comply politely and do whatever is stated there with caring for the most minimal impact possible. my experience as netmaster for several isps and the as250.net project showed me that this is some sort of the golden way to keep your customers satisfied as well as to comply politely with the law where needed. kind regards, michael ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] Notice of Copyright Infringement - How do you proceed?
As an ISP, you do... - what a customers pays for - what the law requires Is either the case here? Nope. If anybody wants you to do work for them - and forwarding messages to people, who's IP you'll have to grep out of Logfiles first (in the worst case) *is* work - this entity should pay for it. Cheers, Viktor Benoit Panizzon wrote: Hello I just got in contact with the swiss advocate of a company who sends us such messages about our users sharring copyrighted content. I basicly wanted to tell him that he should proceed according to swiss law instead of bothering us with such messages. He told me that they made very good experience with such messages as according to his knowledge most ISP warn their users if they hear about them sharing copyrighted 'goods'. Their goal is not to sue anybody but just to show them they are not annonymous and hope they'll stop sharing. So ist this true? Do most of you guys issue warning to your users if you get such messages? Mit freundlichen Grüssen Benoit Panizzon ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] Notice of Copyright Infringement - How do you proceed?
On Fri, 14 Mar 2008, Viktor Steinmann wrote: As an ISP, you do... - what a customers pays for - what the law requires Thanks for summing things up in two simple lines, what i were not able to express shorter ;-) Is either the case here? Nope. If anybody wants you to do work for them - and forwarding messages to people, who's IP you'll have to grep out of Logfiles first (in the worst case) *is* work - this entity should pay for it. If it concerns dynamically allocated IP addresses I second this opinion, however if it costs you no work to identify the customer, why not forward the message? As long as it is not too much work, the customer will be happy or at least ammused about the mail. So if it costs you significant work to find out who had the ip address, silently discarding the mail is the way to go in deed. ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: Re: [swinog] Notice of Copyright Infringement - How do you proceed?
Hi Micheal, Michael Horn [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : If it concerns dynamically allocated IP addresses I second this opinion, however if it costs you no work to identify the customer, why not forward the message? As long as it is not too much work, the customer will be happy or at least ammused about the mail. So if it costs you significant work to find out who had the ip address, silently discarding the mail is the way to go in deed. As you have already seen in this thread, an ISP have to give information to UVEK-DBA only. I'm not a lawyer, but if the ISP forward the information to the client, and if the client contacts the original sender of the mail, it's somthing like an indirect leak of information. There is no clear law on this subject (at least on Switzerland). As an ISP, I would ask my lawyer before doing something. Regards, Vincent M. ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: Re: [swinog] Notice of Copyright Infringement - How do you proceed?
a friend of mine has received once a letter (on paper) from Bluewin, with a warning text approximately repeating the one from that copyright infringement email. But that was only once, and it was like 3 years ago. - Original Message From: Vincent Magnin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 12:33:55 AM Subject: Re: Re: [swinog] Notice of Copyright Infringement - How do you proceed? I'm not a lawyer, but if the ISP forward the information to the client, and if the client contacts the original sender of the mail, it's somthing like an indirect leak of information. There is no clear law on this subject (at least on Switzerland). As an ISP, I would ask my lawyer before doing something. ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: Re: [swinog] Notice of Copyright Infringement - How do you proceed?
Hi Vincent, On Sat, 15 Mar 2008, Vincent Magnin wrote: Michael Horn [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : As you have already seen in this thread, an ISP have to give information to UVEK-DBA only. That is what i meant to express - until you are forced by law to comply, don't do anything that might harm you or your customer. If this is the case - e.g. in the above stated UVEK-DBA - comply politely as far as minimally needed. I think we agree on that point. I'm not a lawyer, but if the ISP forward the information to the client, and if the client contacts the original sender of the mail, it's somthing like an indirect leak of information. Which would be in deed a very dumb thing to do as the customer. But I sometimes forget, that - at least some - customers don't always act very wisely. You got a point there in deed. There is no clear law on this subject (at least on Switzerland). As an ISP, I would ask my lawyer before doing something. Which costs money - often considerable amounts. So best thing until more evil things than anoying people sending you emails happen: Mail - Rundablage. cheers Michael___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
