RE: [swinog] Referendum against "Swiss DMCA"
* on the Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 08:49:43AM +0100, Tonnerre LOMBARD wrote: > I want you to be aware of the fact that there is a certain risk > involved with the referendum. [...] > if the current law is abolished through a referendum, it will have to > recurr immediately, because the law was not created out of hot air but > as a response to an international treaty which Switzerland ratified. > However, chances are that next time, we will not be able to maintain > the provisions which got into the law this time, so after a > referendum, in my estimation, we will end up with a law which is way > worse than it is right now. I fully disagree. Making us fear "the next law will be way worse" just doesn't apply. If the Swiss people say "no" to this law, how would they ever say "yes" to a law wich is even worse? No way. About international treaties: Thank god the Swiss people have the last word here, too. The government signs a treaty, and the people vote against it? Cancelled! That's why we got to vote about joining the EEA (EEE/EWR), Schengen, the EU, the UN, etc. That's why we got to vote over treaties like the Bilateral Agreements I and II, donating one billion to Eastern Europe, etc. The government would have liked to sign all these treaties, but the people said "yes" to some and "no" to others. That's why often in these treaties I guess the Swiss government puts a phrase like "it will enter into action except if the Swiss people vote against it". Peter -- Pt! Schon vom neuen GMX MultiMessenger gehört? Der kann`s mit allen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/multimessenger ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] Referendum against "Swiss DMCA"
Tonnerre LOMBARD wrote: > Anyway, make up your own mind. I do not want to force anyone of you here > not to sign this proposal, and there is a chance of course that I am > entirely mistaken. What you should be aware of though is that this is > not going to be the last thing you heard from the copyright revision. > Thank you Tonnerre for your valuable input. Following the various discussions today on this topic, I was also referred to this article: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/12/05/swiss_dmca_say_it_aint_so/ I can only agree with the author when he says that "the petition has unquestionably raised awareness of copyright and consumer rights regarding digital media, which have received little mainstream attention so far in the Confederation". Regards, Alexandre ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] Referendum against "Swiss DMCA"
Hello * on the Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 08:49:43AM +0100, Tonnerre LOMBARD wrote: > Now to the problems. We have already achieved something with regard to > taming this law. The original proposal had far worse provisions, and we > could have ended up far worse without some of the specifications. However, > if the current law is abolished through a referendum, it will have to > recurr immediately, because the law was not created out of hot air but > as a response to an international treaty which Switzerland ratified. I concur with that. I wouldn't take up a referendum against a half-bad law. There should be done something, but in my opinion the whole law should be completely rewritten at a later date, and probably the WIPO-treaty itself should be repelled (or changed completely at WIPO-level). It's apalling how the so-called "economical liberal" are not in fact opening up markets for free trade but instead are plastering the whole world with laws for more gouvernement-granted monopolies. Cheers Seegras -- Those who give up essential liberties for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -- Benjamin Franklin ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] Referendum against "Swiss DMCA"
Salut, On Tue, Dec 04, 2007 at 10:09:52PM +0100, Alexandre Suter wrote: > I encourage everyone to have a look at the website and pass the word > around... There is not much time left ! > > French : http://no-dmca.ch/index.fr.html > German : http://no-dmca.ch/index.de.html > Italian : http://no-dmca.ch/index.it.html > English : http://no-dmca.ch/index.en.html I do not mean to refuse you your right to your own opinion on this, but I want you to be aware of the fact that there is a certain risk involved with the referendum. Before that, you should know that despite people's claims, this law has not been rushed past the people or anything. There has been a public hearing on this way back in 2005, which I attended. In 2006, the relevant gremia decided on the issue, and have been lobbied by us and quite a number of other parties. I have personally made an analysis of the (at the time) legal proposal, have postulated ways to improve it, and have invited people to come and help me (which some did). All those people who claim that there has been no public notice of this law should simply be embarassed that they did not act in time despite the fact that there has been a _lot_ of public uproar about it for more than two years now, and should stop discounting our work on the issue, which has been considerable. See also http://www.ffii.ch/action/urg2006/ Now to the problems. We have already achieved something with regard to taming this law. The original proposal had far worse provisions, and we could have ended up far worse without some of the specifications. However, if the current law is abolished through a referendum, it will have to recurr immediately, because the law was not created out of hot air but as a response to an international treaty which Switzerland ratified. However, chances are that next time, we will not be able to maintain the provisions which got into the law this time, so after a referendum, in my estimation, we will end up with a law which is way worse than it is right now. Thus, I would rather propose to use the provisions laid down in the law to force a new revision based on the facts which will undoubtedly be established in its evaluation, i.e. what happens after it has come to force. Anyway, make up your own mind. I do not want to force anyone of you here not to sign this proposal, and there is a chance of course that I am entirely mistaken. What you should be aware of though is that this is not going to be the last thing you heard from the copyright revision. Thanks for listening and sorry for the off-topic subject, I will not start into a flame war this time. ;-) Tonnerre pgpLbbtLWHqf9.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
[swinog] Referendum against "Swiss DMCA"
I encourage everyone to have a look at the website and pass the word around... There is not much time left ! French : http://no-dmca.ch/index.fr.html German : http://no-dmca.ch/index.de.html Italian : http://no-dmca.ch/index.it.html English : http://no-dmca.ch/index.en.html Regards, Alexandre ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
