Re: [sword-devel] SwordReader .....

2009-12-22 Thread Barry Drake

Hi David ...

David Haslam wrote:

A search through the archives finds (2009-05-23) that David Trotz decided to
stop work on SwordReader development.
David did correspond with me before he left, as I was a co-developer on 
the project.  That is why I posted the comment.  I am not active on it 
for two reasons.  One is that it is no longer able to build with the 
free Microsoft environment without a lot of work, and the other is that 
David's excellent coding took the whole thing way beyond my limited C++. 

As the last release stands, it's an excellent app. and I use it 
regularly, however, as more and more folk are moving away from Windows 
Mobile, I suspect that there is no longer any need to maintain the 
present release beyond offering support, which I can do!  There have 
been almost no posts about it for ages now.  That suggests to me that it 
is close to being dead in the water.


God bless,
Barry

--
Barry

-- From Barry Drake (The Revd) Health and Healing advisor to the East Midlands 
Synod of the United Reformed Church.  See http://www.urc5.org.uk/index for 
information about the synod, and http://www.urc5.org.uk/?q=node/703 for the 
Synod Healing pages.

Replies - b.dr...@ntlworld.com


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[sword-devel] Localised language names for third party modules?

2009-12-22 Thread David Haslam

Front-end applications such as Xiphos display localized language names as
branches in the module manager.

However, not all third party created modules stick to the CrossWire
developers' guideline to use the two letter language code, when both two
letter and three letter codes are defined in ISO-639.

Example:

One of the modules from the  http://www.wordofgod.in/ Word of God  team in
India is the Tamil Bible.

ISO-639-1 code for Tamil is "ta"
ISO-639-2 code for Tamil is "tam"
ISO-639-3 code for Tamil is "tam"

The language code in tamil.conf is "tam".

This causes Xiphos to display it as an English language name "Tamil" rather
than a localized one, "தமிழ்".

Should Xiphos be made sufficiently versatile to cope with such third party
deviations from our guidelines?

Or should we suggest to brother Yesudas Solomon to change the conf file to
use the two letter code?

A similar situation appertains for the Hindi, Telugu and Kannada Bible
modules available from the same website.

David H.




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Re: [sword-devel] Localised language names for third party modules?

2009-12-22 Thread Karl Kleinpaste
I updated ui/languages to make "tam" have the same localized name as
"ta".  It will be in the new release at the end of this week.

If you can tell us what other language codes need to be updated, I will
do more of this.

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Re: [sword-devel] Localised language names for third party modules?

2009-12-22 Thread DM Smith

Just my opinion:
a) It is a best practice to use the 2 letter code if it is available. 
Not a requirement. In the wiki, 
http://crosswire.org/wiki/DevTools:confFiles, it says: "ISO 639-1 codes 
are the preferred code..."


b) A front-end should handle aliases for the same language.

A front-end can accomplish this by several means:
i) Localize both 2 and 3 letter codes.
ii) Create a map of 2 letter codes to their 3 letter counterparts. (I 
think this is the better solution.)


Related, the wiki entry gives that we might see something like
zh-Hant or zh-Hans for traditional or simplified Chinese, respectively.
or
en-GB or en for British English vs American English (Note: SWORD already 
uses en for American English.)
Both script and country can be specified, but I can't think of any real 
examples where we might see this.


In all cases, the language is first.

I've got some work in JSword to support these observations.

-- DM


On 12/22/2009 08:09 AM, David Haslam wrote:

Front-end applications such as Xiphos display localized language names as
branches in the module manager.

However, not all third party created modules stick to the CrossWire
developers' guideline to use the two letter language code, when both two
letter and three letter codes are defined in ISO-639.

Example:

One of the modules from the  http://www.wordofgod.in/ Word of God  team in
India is the Tamil Bible.

ISO-639-1 code for Tamil is "ta"
ISO-639-2 code for Tamil is "tam"
ISO-639-3 code for Tamil is "tam"

The language code in tamil.conf is "tam".

This causes Xiphos to display it as an English language name "Tamil" rather
than a localized one, "தமிழ்".

Should Xiphos be made sufficiently versatile to cope with such third party
deviations from our guidelines?

Or should we suggest to brother Yesudas Solomon to change the conf file to
use the two letter code?

A similar situation appertains for the Hindi, Telugu and Kannada Bible
modules available from the same website.

David H.




   



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Re: [sword-devel] Localised language names for third party modules?

2009-12-22 Thread David Haslam

Thanks Karl,

For the Hindi Bible, he has "hin" rather than "hi".
For the Telugu Bible, he has "tel" rather than "te".
For the KanKJV Bible, he has "kan" rather than "kn".
For the Hmar Bible, he has "hmr" (there is no two letter code).

My guess is that when they become available as SWORD modules,
For the Malayalam Bible, he'd have "mal" rather than "ml".
For the Koya Bible, he'd have "kff" (there is no two letter code).

No doubt there will eventually be more in the pipeline from bro. Yesudas &
his team.  See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_India Languages of India 

I have discussed with him the potential for making modules in more Indian
languages.
Please pray (everyone), especially as they pursue permissions for
distribution, etc.

David


Karl Kleinpaste-2 wrote:
> 
> I updated ui/languages to make "tam" have the same localized name as
> "ta".  It will be in the new release at the end of this week.
> 
> If you can tell us what other language codes need to be updated, I will
> do more of this.
> 

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Re: [sword-devel] Localised language names for third party modules?

2009-12-22 Thread DM Smith

On 12/22/2009 08:18 AM, Karl Kleinpaste wrote:

I updated ui/languages to make "tam" have the same localized name as
"ta".  It will be in the new release at the end of this week.

If you can tell us what other language codes need to be updated, I will
do more of this.
   

See:
http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/iso-639-3_20090210.tab
Legend:
column  valuecomment
1ISO-639-33-letter code
2ISO-639-2/B 3-letter code base on English 
pronunciation of name
   E.g. ger, wel for German and 
Welsh
3ISO-639-2/T 3-letter code based on local 
pronunciation of name
   E.g. deu, cym for German and 
Welsh

4ISO-639-12-letter code
...

Only a few rows have a value in the 4-th column. These are the ones of 
interest.
Columns 1 and 3 probably match. While we use column 2 values for module 
names, they are not specified for language names in the conf.


Hope this helps.

In His Service,
DM

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Re: [sword-devel] Localised language names for third party modules?

2009-12-22 Thread David Haslam

Thanks DM,

Our own wiki page will also need updating as we become more international.
http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/Localized_Language_Names Localized Language
Names 

Some of the languages of India are not tabled there yet.

David

DM Smith-5 wrote:
> 
>   
> See:
> http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/iso-639-3_20090210.tab
> Legend:
> column  valuecomment
> 1ISO-639-33-letter code
> 2ISO-639-2/B 3-letter code base on English 
> pronunciation of name
> E.g. ger, wel for German and 
> Welsh
> 3ISO-639-2/T 3-letter code based on local 
> pronunciation of name
> E.g. deu, cym for German and 
> Welsh
> 4ISO-639-12-letter code
> ...
> 
> Only a few rows have a value in the 4-th column. These are the ones of 
> interest.
> Columns 1 and 3 probably match. While we use column 2 values for module 
> names, they are not specified for language names in the conf.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> In His Service,
>  DM
> 
> 

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[sword-devel] НА: Re: SwordReader .....

2009-12-22 Thread Konstantin Maslyuk
Hi, Barry. If you want maintain SwordReader, we could roll back on latest 
working for you version of SwRd svn, and apply my patches. For now SwordReader 
works on wm5+ devices, and wm2003 has bug with menu display, that cause program 
termination, whitch i haven't time to fix (maybe it is beacouse my devenv?).

- Исходное сообщение -
От: Barry Drake 
Отправлено: 22 декабря 2009 г. 15:02
Кому: SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum 
Тема: Re: [sword-devel] SwordReader .

Hi David ...

David Haslam wrote:
> A search through the archives finds (2009-05-23) that David Trotz decided to
> stop work on SwordReader development.
David did correspond with me before he left, as I was a co-developer on 
the project.  That is why I posted the comment.  I am not active on it 
for two reasons.  One is that it is no longer able to build with the 
free Microsoft environment without a lot of work, and the other is that 
David's excellent coding took the whole thing way beyond my limited C++. 

As the last release stands, it's an excellent app. and I use it 
regularly, however, as more and more folk are moving away from Windows 
Mobile, I suspect that there is no longer any need to maintain the 
present release beyond offering support, which I can do!  There have 
been almost no posts about it for ages now.  That suggests to me that it 
is close to being dead in the water.

God bless,
Barry

-- 
Barry

-- From Barry Drake (The Revd) Health and Healing advisor to the East Midlands 
Synod of the United Reformed Church.  See http://www.urc5.org.uk/index for 
information about the synod, and http://www.urc5.org.uk/?q=node/703 for the 
Synod Healing pages.

Replies - b.dr...@ntlworld.com


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Re: [sword-devel] Localised language names for third party modules?

2009-12-22 Thread Karl Kleinpaste
David Haslam  writes:
> For the Hindi Bible, he has "hin" rather than "hi".
> For the Telugu Bible, he has "tel" rather than "te".
> For the KanKJV Bible, he has "kan" rather than "kn".
> For the Hmar Bible, he has "hmr" (there is no two letter code).

> My guess is that when they become available as SWORD modules,
> For the Malayalam Bible, he'd have "mal" rather than "ml".
> For the Koya Bible, he'd have "kff" (there is no two letter code).

I have updated for hin, tel, kan, and mal.
I have no native script for hmr or kff, either from you or in DM's
web reference.

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Re: [sword-devel] Localised language names for third party modules?

2009-12-22 Thread David Haslam

Thanks Karl,

Hmar uses a Latin alphabet. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hmar_language

Koya language is variously written in the Oriya, Telugu, Devanagari or Roman
script. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koya_language

The Koya Bible translation uses the Telugu script.  Yesudas wrote me in
October, 

"Source is given by the translator Dr. Devagnanavaram (a senior most Bible
Translator having 34 years of experience in this field, working as a
Language Translation Consultant at Indian Evangelical Mission - IEM, Bible
translators will call him as 'Uncle Cam of IEM', Cam is the first person in
Wycliffe group as you know.)"

"Other happiest news is, this KOYA is an tribal language, having Telugu as
its script. You may wonder how can a tribal people use KOYA Mobile Bible.
The thing is that, Dr. Devagnanavarm is planning to send Daily Bible SMS in
Koya language to these Koya people who have mobiles. Here in India even very
low end mobiles support Indian languages :). And hence this is a success
story."

"Kindly pray for these kind of projects. Now God is leading us to use the
latest technologies to reach tribals. "

The Word of God Team has already made Koya Go Bible and e-Sword module, and
more. I'm fairly certain a SWORD module will follow soon.

David

Karl Kleinpaste-2 wrote:
> 
> 
> I have updated for hin, tel, kan, and mal.
> I have no native script for hmr or kff, either from you or in DM's web
> reference.
> 

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Re: [sword-devel] Localised language names for third party modules?

2009-12-22 Thread David Haslam

Additional information about the Koya translator (for your edification)

IEM website is  http://www.iemoutreach.org/ http://www.iemoutreach.org/ 

See also  http://www.koyaword.net/ http://www.koyaword.net/ 
especially  http://www.koyaword.net/dedication.htm
http://www.koyaword.net/dedication.htm 
(for further background about the Koya NT)

This page has a photo of Deva with first copy of Mobile Bible
http://www.koyaword.net/photoalbum1.html
http://www.koyaword.net/photoalbum1.html 

This page tells the story of Deva's life and ministry as a Bible translator,
http://www.koyaword.net/usefulpapers.htm
http://www.koyaword.net/usefulpapers.htm 

David

Karl Kleinpaste-2 wrote:
> 
> 
> I have no native script for hmr or kff, either from you or in DM's
> web reference.
> 
> 

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Re: [sword-devel] Localised language names for third party modules?

2009-12-22 Thread DM Smith

On Dec 22, 2009, at 9:40 AM, Karl Kleinpaste wrote:

> David Haslam  writes:
>> For the Hindi Bible, he has "hin" rather than "hi".
>> For the Telugu Bible, he has "tel" rather than "te".
>> For the KanKJV Bible, he has "kan" rather than "kn".
>> For the Hmar Bible, he has "hmr" (there is no two letter code).
> 
>> My guess is that when they become available as SWORD modules,
>> For the Malayalam Bible, he'd have "mal" rather than "ml".
>> For the Koya Bible, he'd have "kff" (there is no two letter code).
> 
> I have updated for hin, tel, kan, and mal.
> I have no native script for hmr or kff, either from you or in DM's
> web reference.

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to imply that the reference I gave had any native 
script other than for English. I meant that the file could be used to verify 
completeness as it has the mappings of 2 <-> 3 letter codes.

In Him,
DM


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Re: [sword-devel] НА: Re: SwordReader .....

2009-12-22 Thread SonWon
Where could I download the latest version of SwordReader for wm5?


On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 9:30 AM, Konstantin Maslyuk  wrote:

> Hi, Barry. If you want maintain SwordReader, we could roll back on latest
> working for you version of SwRd svn, and apply my patches. For now
> SwordReader works on wm5+ devices, and wm2003 has bug with menu display,
> that cause program termination, whitch i haven't time to fix (maybe it is
> beacouse my devenv?).
>
> - Исходное сообщение -
> От: Barry Drake 
> Отправлено: 22 декабря 2009 г. 15:02
> Кому: SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum 
> Тема: Re: [sword-devel] SwordReader .
>
> Hi David ...
>
> David Haslam wrote:
> > A search through the archives finds (2009-05-23) that David Trotz decided
> to
> > stop work on SwordReader development.
> David did correspond with me before he left, as I was a co-developer on
> the project.  That is why I posted the comment.  I am not active on it
> for two reasons.  One is that it is no longer able to build with the
> free Microsoft environment without a lot of work, and the other is that
> David's excellent coding took the whole thing way beyond my limited C++.
>
> As the last release stands, it's an excellent app. and I use it
> regularly, however, as more and more folk are moving away from Windows
> Mobile, I suspect that there is no longer any need to maintain the
> present release beyond offering support, which I can do!  There have
> been almost no posts about it for ages now.  That suggests to me that it
> is close to being dead in the water.
>
> God bless,
> Barry
>
> --
> Barry
>
> -- From Barry Drake (The Revd) Health and Healing advisor to the East
> Midlands Synod of the United Reformed Church.  See
> http://www.urc5.org.uk/index for information about the synod, and
> http://www.urc5.org.uk/?q=node/703 for the Synod Healing pages.
>
> Replies - b.dr...@ntlworld.com
>
>
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Re: [sword-devel] Localised language names for third party modules?

2009-12-22 Thread Chris Little

On 12/22/2009 5:09 AM, David Haslam wrote:


Front-end applications such as Xiphos display localized language names as
branches in the module manager.

However, not all third party created modules stick to the CrossWire
developers' guideline to use the two letter language code, when both two
letter and three letter codes are defined in ISO-639.


This is not CrossWire's guideline, this is IETF's BCP, which we follow. 
ONLY the two-letter code is permitted. In the cases of both two- and 
three-letter codes existing for a language, the three-letter codes are 
explicitly undefined and should not be used, under any circumstances. To 
quote RFC 4646:


   Note: For languages that have both an ISO 639-1 two-character code
   and an ISO 639-2 three-character code, only the ISO 639-1 two-
   character code is defined in the IANA registry.


Example:

One of the modules from the  http://www.wordofgod.in/ Word of God  team in
India is the Tamil Bible.

ISO-639-1 code for Tamil is "ta"
ISO-639-2 code for Tamil is "tam"
ISO-639-3 code for Tamil is "tam"

The language code in tamil.conf is "tam".

This causes Xiphos to display it as an English language name "Tamil" rather
than a localized one, "தமிழ�".

Should Xiphos be made sufficiently versatile to cope with such third party
deviations from our guidelines?

Or should we suggest to brother Yesudas Solomon to change the conf file to
use the two letter code?


Yes, anyone employing non-standard codes, including ISO 639-2/3 codes 
when a 639-1 code is available, should be asked to correct those codes.


If Karl wants to support non-standard codes within Xiphos on a 
case-by-case basis, that's his prerogative, but these will absolutely 
not be supported in the master locale list 
(https://crosswire.org/svn/sword-tools/trunk/locales/).


--Chris

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[sword-devel] La Bible de Zadoc Khan as OSIS-File available

2009-12-22 Thread Wolfgang Schultz
R. Zadok Kahn (Zadig ; 1839–1905), chief rabbi of France. Born in
Mommenheim, Alsace, Kahn was the son of a village peddler. His mother
was the daughter of Rabbi Isaac Weyl (Reb Eisik) of Wintzheim, whose
father, Jacob Meyer, was a member of the Sanhedrin convened by
Napoleon I and chief rabbi of the Lower Rhine department. Kahn was
educated in a yeshivah at Strasbourg and from 1856 at the Ecole
Rabbinique in Metz (later in Paris), from which he graduated in 1862.
He then became director of the Talmud Torah, a preparatory school of
the Ecole. In 1866 Kahn became assistant to Chief Rabbi Isidore Lazare
of Paris, whom he succeeded in 1868.

He was also the editor of a French Bible translation known as the
"Bible of the Rabbinate that  is available as OSIS or Zefania XML file
now:

Download Zefania XML

http://downloads.sourceforge.net/project/zefania-sharp/Zefania%20XML%20Bibles%205%20french/La%20Bible%20de%20Zadoc%20Khan/sf_zadoc_kahn.zip


Download OSIS XML

http://zefania-sharp.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/zefania-sharp/trunk/sf_zadoc_kahn/


WS

http://zefania.blogspot.com/2009/12/biblez-for-webos.html


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Re: [sword-devel] НА: Re: SwordReader .....

2009-12-22 Thread Barry Drake

Hi Konstantin .

Konstantin Maslyuk wrote:

Hi, Barry. If you want maintain SwordReader, we could roll back on latest 
working for you version of SwRd svn, and apply my patches. For now SwordReader 
works on wm5+ devices, and wm2003 has bug with menu display, that cause program 
termination, whitch i haven't time to fix (maybe it is beacouse my devenv?).
I have a copy of the last svn that I was able to work on.  But I 
wouldn't want to roll back as David's last version is really good in 
comparison to the older release.  And as I say, I think the need for 
maintenance is quite scarce.  As I have said in another post, I do have 
a working binary of the last build I made, so if anyone wants it, I can 
let them have it.  I have no write access to the SwordReader site on 
SourceForge, but if need be, I could put the old binary up on the 
Crosswire site 


God bless,
Barry

--
Barry

-- From Barry Drake (The Revd) Health and Healing advisor to the East Midlands 
Synod of the United Reformed Church.  See http://www.urc5.org.uk/index for 
information about the synod, and http://www.urc5.org.uk/?q=node/703 for the 
Synod Healing pages.

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Re: [sword-devel] НА: Re: SwordReader .....]

2009-12-22 Thread Barry Drake

Hi there .

SonWon wrote:

Where could I download the latest version of SwordReader for wm5?


The latest posted binary on the SwordReader site works for most (though 
not all) wm5 Pocket Pc's.  If it won't work for you, ask me and I'll 
post you the last binary that I worked on.  I know this works on almost 
everything, but it's nowhere near as capable as David's last version.


God bless,
Barry

-- From Barry Drake (The Revd) Health and Healing advisor to the East Midlands 
Synod of the United Reformed Church.  See http://www.urc5.org.uk/index for 
information about the synod, and http://www.urc5.org.uk/?q=node/703 for the 
Synod Healing pages.

Replies - b.dr...@ntlworld.com




--
Barry

-- From Barry Drake (The Revd) Health and Healing advisor to the East Midlands 
Synod of the United Reformed Church.  See http://www.urc5.org.uk/index for 
information about the synod, and http://www.urc5.org.uk/?q=node/703 for the 
Synod Healing pages.

Replies - b.dr...@ntlworld.com


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Re: [sword-devel] La Bible de Zadoc Kahn as OSIS-File available

2009-12-22 Thread David Haslam

The same translation is also available here in OLB format:

http://456-bible.123-bible.com/ http://456-bible.123-bible.com/ 

I have email contact with the web-master.

Zadoc-Kahn is listed in the wiki page, 
http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/Module_Requests|French Bibles Module
Requests#French_Bibles 

David Haslam


Wolfgang Schultz-2 wrote:
> 
> He was also the editor of a French Bible translation known as the
> "Bible of the Rabbinate that  is available as OSIS or Zefania XML file
> now:
> 
> 
> 

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Re: [sword-devel] Localised language names for third party modules?

2009-12-22 Thread David Haslam

Chris,

Thanks for steering us to the proper authority.

I will drop a line to bro. Yesudas, with a request that he correct those
language codes.

David

Chris Little-2 wrote:
> 
> 
> This is not CrossWire's guideline, this is IETF's BCP, which we follow. 
> ONLY the two-letter code is permitted. In the cases of both two- and 
> three-letter codes existing for a language, the three-letter codes are 
> explicitly undefined and should not be used, under any circumstances. To 
> quote RFC 4646:
> 
> Note: For languages that have both an ISO 639-1 two-character code
> and an ISO 639-2 three-character code, only the ISO 639-1 two-
> character code is defined in the IANA registry.
> 
> Yes, anyone employing non-standard codes, including ISO 639-2/3 codes 
> when a 639-1 code is available, should be asked to correct those codes.
> 
> If Karl wants to support non-standard codes within Xiphos on a 
> case-by-case basis, that's his prerogative, but these will absolutely 
> not be supported in the master locale list 
> (https://crosswire.org/svn/sword-tools/trunk/locales/).
> 
> --Chris
> 

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Re: [sword-devel] SwordReader .....

2009-12-22 Thread jonathon
On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 12:02, Barry Drake wrote:

> suspect that there is no longer any need to maintain the present release 
> beyond offering support, which I can do!

Do  I understand this correctly:
* There will be ongoing support for Sword Reader;
* The only ongoing development will be bug fixes;

###

In the last six months, three other vendors of Bible Study Software
have announced that they will be doing no further development on the
WinMo platform, and all official support will end on, or before 1
January 2010.

By way of comparison:
* Either two or three organizations have released Bible Software for
the iPhone in the last six months;
* Either one or two organizations have released Bible Software for the
Android platform, in the last six months;

[I don't have precise dates available, but I think that all of these
announcements have been in the last three months, rather than last six
months.]

jonathon

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[sword-devel] Luther and German v11ns

2009-12-22 Thread Chris Little
I've committed two new v11n definitions, primarily for use with German 
Bibles. Both are based on recent editions of the Lutherbibel, but have 
an extra verse in a few chapters to accommodate some translations that 
use versification systems that are very similar to Luther's.


"German" is a 66-book v11n using the standard book order, as in the KJV.
"Luther" adds apocrypha at the end of the OT and employs Luther's book 
order, with Hebrews & James following Jude.


Based on the dozen or so editions I examined, I think these two v11n 
definitions should cover the needs of German Bibles fairly well.


Demo v11n modules (v11nGerman and v11nLuther) are in the experimental 
repo. Also in the experimental repo is a new version of GerNeUe from 
Manfred, using the German v11n.


A Win32 build of the latest utilities is at 
http://www.crosswire.org/ftpmirror/pub/sword/utils/win32/sword-utilities-1.6.0-r2490.zip.


--Chris

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