Re: [sword-devel] NASB Psalm titles

[David Haslam]

Troy wrote,

"No. diatheke is certainly not the gold standard for seeing anything. 
Diatheke has bugs of its own.
I personally use word/examples/cmdline/lookup.cpp to check all info 
about what SWORD output from a module entry to a frontend for a particular 
format.
Diatheke is not a bad tool to use, but it is certainly not considered 
any kind of standard.  I have no idea why it is, for example, showing headings 
AFTER verse 1.  This is certainly a bug and has likely been fixed since the 
version you are using."

-

FWIW, The Windows versions of diatheke still output the Psalm title AFTER verse 
1 for the KJV and other modules.

And in this respect, the copy of diatheke.exe installed with Xiphos (x32) 
version 4.2.1 (just released) still behaves the same.

Has this been ever made a tracker issue under MODTOOLs ?

Best regards,

David

Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Saturday, 9 May 2020 09:23, Fr Cyrille  wrote:

> Hi Tom,
> It's very easy to create a deb with the xiphos sources. Just see the
> "Generating DEB Packages" in the install.md. Then you'll have the last
> release.
>
> Le 08/05/2020 à 19:59, Tom Sullivan a écrit :
>
> > Y'all:
> > Thank you all for your interactions. I honestly have been trying to
> > help, not just waste everybody's time. But I am not a C++ programmer.
> > I know enough Python to be dangerous. I can do some occasional
> > maintenance on C. All the languages I once knew are obsolete or
> > specific to Microsoft, whom I finally just had to divorce with extreme
> > disgust. I am still learning, but slowly.
> > Thus, I hope I can be extended some charity here as a "weaker brother"
> > with respect to the above and below remarks.
> > Documentation is a weak point in Linux generally, and has been a
> > problem for me and others in spades with Crosswire related stuff. One
> > solution for some of the versions issue would be to:
> >
> > 1.  Document somewhere what are the latest versions and how to find out
> > one's current version.
> >
> > 2.  Programs should have an option to check for a newer version each
> > time they are started and report new versions to the user.
> >
> > 3.  For main distros, even though it may not be possible to get
> > something in the official repository, provide a package somewhere to
> > download. For example, for Debian, a *.deb.
> >
> > 4.  Provide scripts that will work and allow one to compile the latest
> > version without requiring the user to know a lot. Even a list of
> > commands that can be copied and pasted one by one would be better than
> > nothing.
> >
> >
> > The reference to [NASB] ... was for Karl.
> > How do I find out the version of Sword from the command line without
> > using osis2mod?
> > And, I thought Diatheke came with Sword? When Sword was updated awhile
> > back was it not updated also?
> > Re: your using:
> > sword/examples/cmdline/lookup.cpp
> > You can do that. I can't. I do not know C++. You guys are all way
> > above me technically. When something goes wrong, I generally have no
> > idea how to fix it.
> > Sorry for the trouble. Perhaps some of my suggestions above will make
> > things easier for all of us. For example, if my Diatheke is obsolete,
> > I have no way of knowing and still do not know if it is obsolete or not.
> >
> > Tom Sullivan
> > i...@beforgiven.info
> > FAX: 815-301-2835
> >
> > 
> >
> > Great News!
> > God created you, owns you and gave you commands to obey.
> > You have disobeyed God - as your conscience very well attests to you.
> > God's holiness and justice compel Him to punish you in Hell.
> > Jesus Christ became Man, was crucified, buried and rose from the dead
> > as a substitute for all who trust in Him, redeeming them from Hell.
> > If you repent (turn from your sin) and believe (trust) in Jesus Christ,
> > you will go to Heaven. Otherwise you will go to Hell.
> > Warning! Good works are a result, not cause, of saving trust.
> > More info is at www.esig.beforgiven.info
> > Do you believe this? Copy this signature into your email program
> > and use the Internet to spread the Great News every time you email.
> > On 5/8/20 1:19 PM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote:
> >
> > > So, a few things here.
> > > On 5/8/20 9:57 AM, Tom Sullivan wrote:
> > >
> > > > Troy, Karl:
> > > > (Karl:
> > > > [NASB]
> > > > Heading=On)
> > >
> > > I have no idea what you are showing here.  This looks like a .conf
> > > setting.  Xiphos may pay attention to Heading=On, but this doesn't mean
> > > anything to SWORD.
> > >
> > > > I am using Debian Buster (10) (stable). This is the current stable
> > > > version of Debian and is the one generally recommended. It is the
> > > > version those of us who have work to do use, rather than mess with a
> > > > buggy OS. (There is a more recent Debian version generally titled
> > > > testing, but it is not as reliable.)
> > > > I have mentione

Re: [sword-devel] NASB Psalm titles

[David Haslam]

This is also a challenge for using USFM,  let alone OSIS and SWORD front-ends.

In some AV11N, the CT is sometimes only part of verse 1.

There are also at least 2 Psalms where the CT extends into verse 2 and 1 Psalm 
where the CT actually creeps into verse 3 with a single word consisting of a 
verb participle!

I leave the locations as an exercise for the reader. Fluency in French helps. ;)

As for USFM, the following is valid and correct, and would be accepted in 
ParaTExt.

\d \v 1 A Psalm of David
\q O Lord 

It’s not immediately apparent how best to convert this to OSIS 

David

Sent from ProtonMail Mobile

On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 03:35, DM Smith  wrote:

> While the OSIS spec has one definition of canonical, being part of the 
> published text. Regarding Bibles, Troy pointed out, we use it in the 
> theological sense for Bible modules.
>
> There are many versifications that have the canonical titles as verse 1. and 
> what we have as verse 1 to n in verse 2 to n + 1.
>
> I once surveyed all of our modules for verse 3.0 and verse 3.1 to note how 
> they handled the canonical Psalm title. It was very inconsistent. Some had it 
> in verse 0, some had it in verse 1. Many didn’t have it marked as canonical. 
> That’s an entirely issue than what we are talking about here.
>
> In Him,
> DM
>
>> On May 8, 2020, at 10:49 AM, Tom Sullivan  wrote:
>>
>> Y'all:
>>
>> My Biblia Hebraica treats Psalm titles as the first verse, indicating 
>> biblical canonacity and in line with Hebrew versification.
>>
>> Note the following from OSIS doc, OSIS.pdf:
>>
>> Appendix B.2.10 titles
>> The type attribute on the title element is used to allow special rendering 
>> of particular titles, as well as
>> searching for particular types of titles in the text.identify the type of 
>> note that appears in the text. Note that
>> the values for the type attribute must be entered exactly as shown, all 
>> others must use the "x-" extension
>> mechanism.
>> If the user needs to record a type of title in the text that is not covered 
>> by these values, please use the OSIS
>> attribute extension mechanism, "x-" in front of the name of your value for 
>> this attribute.
>> .
>> .
>> psalm Use in the Psalms where what are considered "titles" in the English 
>> text are actually numbered
>> as verses in the Hebrew text.
>>
>> David's point about canonicity is well taken, but we must consider:
>> 1. Are we considering canonicity with respect to the NASB as published,
>> OR
>> 2. Are we considering canonicity with respect to how the NASB publishers saw 
>> it, that is that the Scripture text is cannonical. If we make this decision, 
>> we are simply electronically duplicating the paper publication.
>>
>> IMHO, 2. is the far better choice.
>>
>> Hope this helps, and thanks again to all.
>>
>> Tom Sullivan
>> i...@beforgiven.info
>> FAX: 815-301-2835
>> -
>>
>> On 5/8/20 10:28 AM, David Haslam wrote:
>>> One of the subtleties of OSIS is that the canonical attribute is actually 
>>> not a theological matter.
>>> It’s easy to jump to the wrong conclusion that SWORD treats it as if it was.
>>> It’s actually a technical attribute relating to the published work it 
>>> represents in digital format.
>>> So it can just as well appear in a Commentary module as a Bible module.
>>> Anything with canonical=“false” should in theory at least be only because 
>>> the marked text was not in the original work.
>>> Then the question becomes “What was the original work?”
>>> I will leave you to ponder
>>> David
>>> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>>> On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 15:09, Karl Kleinpaste >> > wrote:
 On 5/8/20 10:00 AM, Tom Sullivan wrote:
 > because Psalm titles are canonical, front-ends should put a difference
 > in display between them and human editor supplied titles.

 It's a fine idea, but it requires (in the xhtml case) the engine to wrap
 such titles in a suitable  so that a CSS control can put it
 to use, with appropriate new default render header content for it.

 ___
 sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org
 http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
 Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>>> __
>>> This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
>>> For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
>>> __
>>> ___
>>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org
>>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>>
>> ___
>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org
>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/

Re: [sword-devel] NASB Psalm titles

[Fr Cyrille]

Hi Tom,
It's very easy to create a deb with the xiphos sources. Just see the
"Generating DEB Packages" in the install.md. Then you'll have the last
release.

Le 08/05/2020 à 19:59, Tom Sullivan a écrit :
> Y'all:
>
> Thank you all for your interactions. I honestly have been trying to
> help, not just waste everybody's time. But I am not a C++ programmer.
> I know enough Python to be dangerous. I can do some occasional
> maintenance on C. All the languages I once knew are obsolete or
> specific to Microsoft, whom I finally just had to divorce with extreme
> disgust. I am still learning, but slowly.
>
> Thus, I hope I can be extended some charity here as a "weaker brother"
> with respect to the above and below remarks.
>
> Documentation is a weak point in Linux generally, and has been a
> problem for me and others in spades with Crosswire related stuff. One
> solution for some of the versions issue would be to:
> 1. Document somewhere what are the latest versions and how to find out
> one's current version.
> 2. Programs should have an option to check for a newer version each
> time they are started and report new versions to the user.
> 2. For main distros, even though it may not be possible to get
> something in the official repository, provide a package somewhere to
> download. For example, for Debian, a *.deb.
> 3. Provide scripts that will work and allow one to compile the latest
> version without requiring the user to know a lot. Even a list of
> commands that can be copied and pasted one by one would be better than
> nothing.
>
> The reference to [NASB] ... was for Karl.
>
> How do I find out the version of Sword from the command line without
> using osis2mod?
>
> And, I thought Diatheke came with Sword? When Sword was updated awhile
> back was it not updated also?
>
> Re: your using:
> sword/examples/cmdline/lookup.cpp
> You can do that. I can't. I do not know C++. You guys are all way
> above me technically. When something goes wrong, I generally have no
> idea how to fix it.
>
> Sorry for the trouble. Perhaps some of my suggestions above will make
> things easier for all of us. For example, if my Diatheke is obsolete,
> I have no way of knowing and still do not know if it is obsolete or not.
>
> Tom Sullivan
> i...@beforgiven.info
> FAX: 815-301-2835
> -
> Great News!
> God created you, owns you and gave you commands to obey.
> You have disobeyed God - as your conscience very well attests to you.
> God's holiness and justice compel Him to punish you in Hell.
> Jesus Christ became Man, was crucified, buried and rose from the dead
> as a substitute for all who trust in Him, redeeming them from Hell.
> If you repent (turn from your sin) and believe (trust) in Jesus Christ,
> you will go to Heaven. Otherwise you will go to Hell.
> Warning! Good works are a result, not cause, of saving trust.
> More info is at www.esig.beforgiven.info
> Do you believe this? Copy this signature into your email program
> and use the Internet to spread the Great News every time you email.
>
> On 5/8/20 1:19 PM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote:
>> So, a few things here.
>>
>> On 5/8/20 9:57 AM, Tom Sullivan wrote:
>>> Troy, Karl:
>>>
>>> (Karl:
>>> [NASB]
>>> Heading=On)
>>
>> I have no idea what you are showing here.  This looks like a .conf
>> setting.  Xiphos may pay attention to Heading=On, but this doesn't mean
>> anything to SWORD.
>>
>>
>>> I am using Debian Buster (10) (stable). This is the current stable
>>> version of Debian and is the one generally recommended. It is the
>>> version those of us who have work to do use, rather than mess with a
>>> buggy OS. (There is a more recent Debian version generally titled
>>> testing, but it is not as reliable.)
>>>
>>> I have mentioned my versions before. Others can comment on their
>>> current status:
>>>
>>> Diatheke: 4.7
>>> Xiphos: 4.1.0
>>> Sword (from osis2mod): 3431 (This should be current as I compiled for
>>> the new version when it came out earlier.)
>>
>> So, you are not reporting the version of SWORD you are using if you are
>> getting that information from osis2mod.  osis2mod shows the last edited
>> revision of the osis2mod utility.  That tools hasn't been updated since
>> 2016, so it will report that revision.  SWORD is currently at 3725
>>
>>
>>> I understand that there is a new version of Xiphos, but Xiphos is not
>>> the only program not showing Psalm titles. (I hope to see a Debian
>>> package for Xiphos soon, if not when I get a chance, I can try to
>>> compile, but that always has difficulties.)
>>>
>>> I repeat here the results from Diatheke:
>>> (I was given to understand that this is the gold standard for seeing
>>> if the problem is in the module or Sword vs. front-ends.)
>>>
>> No.  diatheke is certainly not the gold standard for seeing anything.
>> Diatheke has bugs of its own.  I personally use
>> sword/examples/cmdline/lookup.cpp to check all info about what SWORD
>> output from a module entry to a frontend for a particular format.

Re: [sword-devel] NASB Psalm titles

[DM Smith]

While the OSIS spec has one definition of canonical, being part of the 
published text. Regarding Bibles, Troy pointed out, we use it in the 
theological sense for Bible modules.

There are many versifications that have the canonical titles as verse 1. and 
what we have as verse 1 to n in verse 2 to n + 1.

I once surveyed all of our modules for verse 3.0 and verse 3.1 to note how they 
handled the canonical Psalm title. It was very inconsistent. Some had it in 
verse 0, some had it in verse 1. Many didn’t have it marked as canonical. 
That’s an entirely issue than what we are talking about here.

In Him,
DM

> On May 8, 2020, at 10:49 AM, Tom Sullivan  wrote:
> 
> Y'all:
> 
> My Biblia Hebraica treats Psalm titles as the first verse, indicating 
> biblical canonacity and in line with Hebrew versification.
> 
> Note the following from OSIS doc, OSIS.pdf:
> 
> Appendix B.2.10 titles
> The type attribute on the title element is used to allow special rendering of 
> particular titles, as well as
> searching for particular types of titles in the text.identify the type of 
> note that appears in the text. Note that
> the values for the type attribute must be entered exactly as shown, all 
> others must use the "x-" extension
> mechanism.
> If the user needs to record a type of title in the text that is not covered 
> by these values, please use the OSIS
> attribute extension mechanism, "x-" in front of the name of your value for 
> this attribute.
> .
> .
> psalm Use in the Psalms where what are considered "titles" in the English 
> text are actually numbered
> as verses in the Hebrew text.
> 
> David's point about canonicity is well taken, but we must consider:
> 1. Are we considering canonicity with respect to the NASB as published,
> OR
> 2. Are we considering canonicity with respect to how the NASB publishers saw 
> it, that is that the Scripture text is cannonical. If we make this decision, 
> we are simply electronically duplicating the paper publication.
> 
> IMHO, 2. is the far better choice.
> 
> Hope this helps, and thanks again to all.
> 
> Tom Sullivan
> i...@beforgiven.info
> FAX: 815-301-2835
> -
> 
> On 5/8/20 10:28 AM, David Haslam wrote:
>> One of the subtleties of OSIS is that the canonical attribute is actually 
>> not a theological matter.
>> It’s easy to jump to the wrong conclusion that SWORD treats it as if it was.
>> It’s actually a technical attribute relating to the published work it 
>> represents in digital format.
>> So it can just as well appear in a Commentary module as a Bible module.
>> Anything with canonical=“false” should in theory at least be only because 
>> the marked text was not in the original work.
>> Then the question becomes “What was the original work?”
>> I will leave you to ponder
>> David
>> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>> On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 15:09, Karl Kleinpaste > > wrote:
>>> On 5/8/20 10:00 AM, Tom Sullivan wrote:
>>> > because Psalm titles are canonical, front-ends should put a difference
>>> > in display between them and human editor supplied titles.
>>> 
>>> It's a fine idea, but it requires (in the xhtml case) the engine to wrap
>>> such titles in a suitable  so that a CSS control can put it
>>> to use, with appropriate new default render header content for it.
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org
>>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>> __
>> This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
>> For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
>> __
>> ___
>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org
>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
> 
> ___
> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org
> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page


___
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Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page

Re: [sword-devel] NASB Psalm titles

[Troy A. Griffitts]

Hi Tom,

Thank you.  I do realize you are not trying to waste anyone's time and
your frustrations with our lack of supply clear version strings are
noted.  Great suggestion for improvement, thank you.

To improve this, I have just committed new logic to add the "repository
revision" into the the nano field of SWVersion.  We historically haven't
used the nano field and this is a good use of it, in my opinion.  This
means that SWVersion will now report something like 1.8.0.3725, with
3725 being the SVN revision number.

I have also added to diatheke, osis2mod, and installmgr, the SWORD
version string, so in newer versions of these utilities, you will see:

[scribe@localhost utilities]$ diatheke/diatheke
Diatheke command-line SWORD frontend Version 4.8 (SWORD: 1.8.900.3725)

[scribe@localhost utilities]$ ./osis2mod
You are running osis2mod: $Rev: 3735 $ (SWORD: 1.8.900.3725)

[scribe@localhost utilities]$ ./installmgr

usage: ./installmgr [--allow...]  [command ...]
    (SWORD: 1.8.900.3725)

Thank you for your suggestions.  I hope this takes at least one step
toward making this less frustrating for our users.

Troy


On 5/8/20 10:59 AM, Tom Sullivan wrote:
> Y'all:
>
> Thank you all for your interactions. I honestly have been trying to
> help, not just waste everybody's time. But I am not a C++ programmer.
> I know enough Python to be dangerous. I can do some occasional
> maintenance on C. All the languages I once knew are obsolete or
> specific to Microsoft, whom I finally just had to divorce with extreme
> disgust. I am still learning, but slowly.
>
> Thus, I hope I can be extended some charity here as a "weaker brother"
> with respect to the above and below remarks.
>
> Documentation is a weak point in Linux generally, and has been a
> problem for me and others in spades with Crosswire related stuff. One
> solution for some of the versions issue would be to:
> 1. Document somewhere what are the latest versions and how to find out
> one's current version.
> 2. Programs should have an option to check for a newer version each
> time they are started and report new versions to the user.
> 2. For main distros, even though it may not be possible to get
> something in the official repository, provide a package somewhere to
> download. For example, for Debian, a *.deb.
> 3. Provide scripts that will work and allow one to compile the latest
> version without requiring the user to know a lot. Even a list of
> commands that can be copied and pasted one by one would be better than
> nothing.
>
> The reference to [NASB] ... was for Karl.
>
> How do I find out the version of Sword from the command line without
> using osis2mod?
>
> And, I thought Diatheke came with Sword? When Sword was updated awhile
> back was it not updated also?
>
> Re: your using:
> sword/examples/cmdline/lookup.cpp
> You can do that. I can't. I do not know C++. You guys are all way
> above me technically. When something goes wrong, I generally have no
> idea how to fix it.
>
> Sorry for the trouble. Perhaps some of my suggestions above will make
> things easier for all of us. For example, if my Diatheke is obsolete,
> I have no way of knowing and still do not know if it is obsolete or not.
>
> Tom Sullivan
> i...@beforgiven.info
> FAX: 815-301-2835
> -
> Great News!
> God created you, owns you and gave you commands to obey.
> You have disobeyed God - as your conscience very well attests to you.
> God's holiness and justice compel Him to punish you in Hell.
> Jesus Christ became Man, was crucified, buried and rose from the dead
> as a substitute for all who trust in Him, redeeming them from Hell.
> If you repent (turn from your sin) and believe (trust) in Jesus Christ,
> you will go to Heaven. Otherwise you will go to Hell.
> Warning! Good works are a result, not cause, of saving trust.
> More info is at www.esig.beforgiven.info
> Do you believe this? Copy this signature into your email program
> and use the Internet to spread the Great News every time you email.
>
> On 5/8/20 1:19 PM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote:
>> So, a few things here.
>>
>> On 5/8/20 9:57 AM, Tom Sullivan wrote:
>>> Troy, Karl:
>>>
>>> (Karl:
>>> [NASB]
>>> Heading=On)
>>
>> I have no idea what you are showing here.  This looks like a .conf
>> setting.  Xiphos may pay attention to Heading=On, but this doesn't mean
>> anything to SWORD.
>>
>>
>>> I am using Debian Buster (10) (stable). This is the current stable
>>> version of Debian and is the one generally recommended. It is the
>>> version those of us who have work to do use, rather than mess with a
>>> buggy OS. (There is a more recent Debian version generally titled
>>> testing, but it is not as reliable.)
>>>
>>> I have mentioned my versions before. Others can comment on their
>>> current status:
>>>
>>> Diatheke: 4.7
>>> Xiphos: 4.1.0
>>> Sword (from osis2mod): 3431 (This should be current as I compiled for
>>> the new version when it came out earlier.)
>>
>> So, you are not reporting the version of SWOR

Re: [sword-devel] NASB Psalm titles

[David Haslam]

Aside: Where do all the fancy colours come from, that I don’t see in Xiphos on 
Windows ?

NB. Except in the Preview pane for some types of search results when the search 
key (or part if it) is yellow highlighted.

David

Sent from ProtonMail Mobile

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 14:28, Karl Kleinpaste  wrote:

> On 5/8/20 8:21 AM, Tom Sullivan wrote:
>
>> Yes, the box is checked.
>
> The reason I ask is that I see this just fine in 
> Xiphos.http://karl.kleinpaste.org/xiphos/nasb-ps-5-1.png
> (pardon the colors, I do CSS things to make certain stuff really obvious.)
>
> diatheke doesn't produce headers, not even when asked with "-o h".___
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http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
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Re: [sword-devel] NASB Psalm titles

[David Haslam]

The original Hebrew text had no “verse numbers”.

It’s anachronistic to assert that it did.

See 
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapters_and_verses_of_the_Bible](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapters_and_verses_of_the_Bible?wprov=sfti1)

Modern printed editions of the MT have verse numbers “retrofitted” simply for 
ease of use.

The Wikipedia article on Psalms is also instructive.
How Psalms are numbered and versified is quite a complex matter.
It’s just one of the factors we have to take account of under Alternative 
Versification.

David

Sent from ProtonMail Mobile

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 15:49, Tom Sullivan  wrote:

> Y'all:
>
> My Biblia Hebraica treats Psalm titles as the first verse, indicating
> biblical canonacity and in line with Hebrew versification.
>
> Note the following from OSIS doc, OSIS.pdf:
>
> Appendix B.2.10 titles
> The type attribute on the title element is used to allow special
> rendering of particular titles, as well as
> searching for particular types of titles in the text.identify the type
> of note that appears in the text. Note that
> the values for the type attribute must be entered exactly as shown, all
> others must use the "x-" extension
> mechanism.
> If the user needs to record a type of title in the text that is not
> covered by these values, please use the OSIS
> attribute extension mechanism, "x-" in front of the name of your value
> for this attribute.
> .
> .
> psalm Use in the Psalms where what are considered "titles" in the
> English text are actually numbered
> as verses in the Hebrew text.
>
> David's point about canonicity is well taken, but we must consider:
> 1. Are we considering canonicity with respect to the NASB as published,
> OR
> 2. Are we considering canonicity with respect to how the NASB publishers
> saw it, that is that the Scripture text is cannonical. If we make this
> decision, we are simply electronically duplicating the paper publication.
>
> IMHO, 2. is the far better choice.
>
> Hope this helps, and thanks again to all.
>
> Tom Sullivan
> i...@beforgiven.info
> FAX: 815-301-2835
> -
>
> On 5/8/20 10:28 AM, David Haslam wrote:
>> One of the subtleties of OSIS is that the canonical attribute is
>> actually not a theological matter.
>>
>> It’s easy to jump to the wrong conclusion that SWORD treats it as if it was.
>>
>> It’s actually a technical attribute relating to the published work it
>> represents in digital format.
>> So it can just as well appear in a Commentary module as a Bible module.
>>
>> Anything with canonical=“false” should in theory at least be only
>> because the marked text was not in the original work.
>>
>> Then the question becomes “What was the original work?”
>>
>> I will leave you to ponder
>>
>> David
>>
>> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 15:09, Karl Kleinpaste > > wrote:
>>> On 5/8/20 10:00 AM, Tom Sullivan wrote:
>>> > because Psalm titles are canonical, front-ends should put a difference
>>> > in display between them and human editor supplied titles.
>>>
>>> It's a fine idea, but it requires (in the xhtml case) the engine to wrap
>>> such titles in a suitable  so that a CSS control can put it
>>> to use, with appropriate new default render header content for it.
>>>
>>> ___
>>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org
>>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>>
>>
>>
>> __
>> This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
>> For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
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>>
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>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
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>>
>
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Re: [sword-devel] NASB Psalm titles

[David Haslam]

Closed. Mea culpa.

Thanks to DM for explaining.

“The pre-verse div is a construct by osis2mod. These are milestoned to mark the 
beginning and end of pre-verse material.”

Sent from ProtonMail Mobile

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 14:22, David Haslam  wrote:

> I have created issue MOD-367 for this module bug.
>
> David
>
> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>
> On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 13:55, David Haslam  wrote:
>
>> Is this simply because the OSIS file used for module build made use of the 
>> milestone form of the div element ?
>>
>> SWORD does not support that, IIRC.
>>
>> I just looked at the mod2imp dump for the NASB.
>>
>> There are 2250 instances of this type of div, each with an sID and an eID.
>>
>> Aside: Repeating the type and subType attributes with the eID is also 
>> superfluous.
>>
>> Troy can look into this, and propose an improvement to the source OSIS.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> David
>>
>> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>>
>> On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 13:21, Tom Sullivan  wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, the box is checked.
>>>
>>> Note also that diatheke has the same problem.
>>>
>>> Tom Sullivan
>>> i...@beforgiven.info
>>> FAX: 815-301-2835
>>> -
>>>
>>> On 5/8/20 7:06 AM, Karl Kleinpaste wrote:
 On 5/8/20 5:55 AM, Tom Sullivan wrote:
> Xiphos 4.1.0 displays titles for ESV2011, not NASB

 Have you enabled headings in NASB's module options?

 __
 This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
 For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
 __

 ___
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 http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
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>>>
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Re: [sword-devel] NASB Psalm titles

[David Haslam]

I think our replies crossed in the ether, Tom.

Canonical is simply not a theological matter in OSIS.

David

Sent from ProtonMail Mobile

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 15:28, Tom Sullivan  wrote:

> Y'all:
>
> Thanks David.
>
> The Psalm titles are considered canonical because they are the Word of
> God! If Sword does not display them when the user would expect them,
> that that is monkeying with God's Word and completely unacceptable. The
> Psalm titles are theologically and exegetically significant.
>
> Switching off human editor titles should *not* switch off Psalm titles
> any more than switching off any of the verses of the Psalm would be
> acceptable.
>
> So, we have a Sword issue here in addition to a module issue.
>
> Obviously, there are questions here in terms of presentation of partial
> Psalms, and decisions must be carefully made. A request for "Ps 5"
> should always present the title because God put it there. A request for
> "Ps 5:2-4" need not. But what about "Ps 5:1"? I am OK either way, so
> long as the user can do "Ps 5.0" or Ps 5:0-1" or something to get it,
> and it is clearly documented. But probably GUI front ends should display
> title unless only "Ps 5:1" is requested and the GUI would normally
> return just that verse. If the GUI normally shows the whole Psalm
> (perhaps after scrolling up) the title should be there.
>
> In contrast to GUI front ends, with diatheke, I recognize the problem
> with versification here, and am not sure what to suggest. Should they be
> verse 0?
>
> diatheke should display them above the first verse. But perhaps either a
> command line option should switch them on or off, or maybe use verse 0?
>
> In sum here, we have a Sword issue here as well as a module issue.
>
> Hope this helps, and thanks all.
>
> Tom Sullivan
> i...@beforgiven.info
> FAX: 815-301-2835
> -
>
> On 5/8/20 10:04 AM, David Haslam wrote:
>> The difference is that JSword never hides titles with canonical=“true”
>> even with Headings OFF.
>> SWORD does and always has done.
>>
>> David
>>
>> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 15:00, Tom Sullivan > > wrote:
>>> Karl:
>>>
>>> I cannot explain the difference between your linked picture and my
>>> results on Xiphos 4.1.0. The problem survived unchecking/rechecking and
>>> reboot.
>>>
>>> But if you look at my first email, you will note that diatheke does
>>> produce Psalm titles for ESV2011 and KJV, but after the first verse. You
>>> have to ask for verses 1 to 2 or higher. That is an issue in diatheke,
>>> but I can live with that. But I do not get them for NASB via diatheke.
>>>
>>> So this reinforces my (amateur) guess that the issue is in the module
>>> and the Psalm titles are not being recognized as canonical by front-ends.
>>>
>>> IMHO, because Psalm titles are canonical, front-ends should put a
>>> difference in display between them and human editor supplied titles.
>>>
>>> Hope this helps.
>>>
>>> Thanks all.
>>>
>>> Tom Sullivan
>>> i...@beforgiven.info
>>> FAX: 815-301-2835
>>> -
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/8/20 9:28 AM, Karl Kleinpaste wrote:
>>> > On 5/8/20 8:21 AM, Tom Sullivan wrote:
>>> >> Yes, the box is checked.
>>> >
>>> > The reason I ask is that I see this just fine in Xiphos.
>>> > http://karl.kleinpaste.org/xiphos/nasb-ps-5-1.png
>>> > (pardon the colors, I do CSS things to make certain stuff really
>>> obvious.)
>>> >
>>> > diatheke doesn't produce headers, not even when asked with "-o h".
>>> >
>>> > __
>>> > This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud
>>> service.
>>> > For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
>>> > __
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>>> > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
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>>>
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>>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
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>>
>>
>>
>> __
>> This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
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>>
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>>
>
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> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/lis

Re: [sword-devel] NASB Psalm titles

[David Haslam]

One of the subtleties of OSIS is that the canonical attribute is actually not a 
theological matter.

It’s easy to jump to the wrong conclusion that SWORD treats it as if it was.

It’s actually a technical attribute relating to the published work it 
represents in digital format.
So it can just as well appear in a Commentary module as a Bible module.

Anything with canonical=“false” should in theory at least be only because the 
marked text was not in the original work.

Then the question becomes “What was the original work?”

I will leave you to ponder

David

Sent from ProtonMail Mobile

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 15:09, Karl Kleinpaste  wrote:

> On 5/8/20 10:00 AM, Tom Sullivan wrote:
>> because Psalm titles are canonical, front-ends should put a difference
>> in display between them and human editor supplied titles.
>
> It's a fine idea, but it requires (in the xhtml case) the engine to wrap
> such titles in a suitable  so that a CSS control can put it
> to use, with appropriate new default render header content for it.
>
> ___
> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org
> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page___
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Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page

Re: [sword-devel] NASB Psalm titles

[David Haslam]

The difference is that JSword never hides titles with canonical=“true” even 
with Headings OFF.
SWORD does and always has done.

David

Sent from ProtonMail Mobile

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 15:00, Tom Sullivan  wrote:

> Karl:
>
> I cannot explain the difference between your linked picture and my
> results on Xiphos 4.1.0. The problem survived unchecking/rechecking and
> reboot.
>
> But if you look at my first email, you will note that diatheke does
> produce Psalm titles for ESV2011 and KJV, but after the first verse. You
> have to ask for verses 1 to 2 or higher. That is an issue in diatheke,
> but I can live with that. But I do not get them for NASB via diatheke.
>
> So this reinforces my (amateur) guess that the issue is in the module
> and the Psalm titles are not being recognized as canonical by front-ends.
>
> IMHO, because Psalm titles are canonical, front-ends should put a
> difference in display between them and human editor supplied titles.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Thanks all.
>
> Tom Sullivan
> i...@beforgiven.info
> FAX: 815-301-2835
> -
>
> On 5/8/20 9:28 AM, Karl Kleinpaste wrote:
>> On 5/8/20 8:21 AM, Tom Sullivan wrote:
>>> Yes, the box is checked.
>>
>> The reason I ask is that I see this just fine in Xiphos.
>> http://karl.kleinpaste.org/xiphos/nasb-ps-5-1.png
>> (pardon the colors, I do CSS things to make certain stuff really obvious.)
>>
>> diatheke doesn't produce headers, not even when asked with "-o h".
>>
>> __
>> This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
>> For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
>> __
>>
>> ___
>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org
>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>>
>
> ___
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> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
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Re: [sword-devel] NASB Psalm titles

[Tom Sullivan]

Y'all:

Thank you all for your interactions. I honestly have been trying to 
help, not just waste everybody's time. But I am not a C++ programmer. I 
know enough Python to be dangerous. I can do some occasional maintenance 
on C. All the languages I once knew are obsolete or specific to 
Microsoft, whom I finally just had to divorce with extreme disgust. I am 
still learning, but slowly.


Thus, I hope I can be extended some charity here as a "weaker brother" 
with respect to the above and below remarks.


Documentation is a weak point in Linux generally, and has been a problem 
for me and others in spades with Crosswire related stuff. One solution 
for some of the versions issue would be to:
1. Document somewhere what are the latest versions and how to find out 
one's current version.
2. Programs should have an option to check for a newer version each time 
they are started and report new versions to the user.
2. For main distros, even though it may not be possible to get something 
in the official repository, provide a package somewhere to download. For 
example, for Debian, a *.deb.
3. Provide scripts that will work and allow one to compile the latest 
version without requiring the user to know a lot. Even a list of 
commands that can be copied and pasted one by one would be better than 
nothing.


The reference to [NASB] ... was for Karl.

How do I find out the version of Sword from the command line without 
using osis2mod?


And, I thought Diatheke came with Sword? When Sword was updated awhile 
back was it not updated also?


Re: your using:
sword/examples/cmdline/lookup.cpp
You can do that. I can't. I do not know C++. You guys are all way above 
me technically. When something goes wrong, I generally have no idea how 
to fix it.


Sorry for the trouble. Perhaps some of my suggestions above will make 
things easier for all of us. For example, if my Diatheke is obsolete, I 
have no way of knowing and still do not know if it is obsolete or not.


Tom Sullivan
i...@beforgiven.info
FAX: 815-301-2835
-
Great News!
God created you, owns you and gave you commands to obey.
You have disobeyed God - as your conscience very well attests to you.
God's holiness and justice compel Him to punish you in Hell.
Jesus Christ became Man, was crucified, buried and rose from the dead
as a substitute for all who trust in Him, redeeming them from Hell.
If you repent (turn from your sin) and believe (trust) in Jesus Christ,
you will go to Heaven. Otherwise you will go to Hell.
Warning! Good works are a result, not cause, of saving trust.
More info is at www.esig.beforgiven.info
Do you believe this? Copy this signature into your email program
and use the Internet to spread the Great News every time you email.

On 5/8/20 1:19 PM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote:

So, a few things here.

On 5/8/20 9:57 AM, Tom Sullivan wrote:

Troy, Karl:

(Karl:
[NASB]
Heading=On)


I have no idea what you are showing here.  This looks like a .conf
setting.  Xiphos may pay attention to Heading=On, but this doesn't mean
anything to SWORD.



I am using Debian Buster (10) (stable). This is the current stable
version of Debian and is the one generally recommended. It is the
version those of us who have work to do use, rather than mess with a
buggy OS. (There is a more recent Debian version generally titled
testing, but it is not as reliable.)

I have mentioned my versions before. Others can comment on their
current status:

Diatheke: 4.7
Xiphos: 4.1.0
Sword (from osis2mod): 3431 (This should be current as I compiled for
the new version when it came out earlier.)


So, you are not reporting the version of SWORD you are using if you are
getting that information from osis2mod.  osis2mod shows the last edited
revision of the osis2mod utility.  That tools hasn't been updated since
2016, so it will report that revision.  SWORD is currently at 3725



I understand that there is a new version of Xiphos, but Xiphos is not
the only program not showing Psalm titles. (I hope to see a Debian
package for Xiphos soon, if not when I get a chance, I can try to
compile, but that always has difficulties.)

I repeat here the results from Diatheke:
(I was given to understand that this is the gold standard for seeing
if the problem is in the module or Sword vs. front-ends.)


No.  diatheke is certainly not the gold standard for seeing anything.
Diatheke has bugs of its own.  I personally use
sword/examples/cmdline/lookup.cpp to check all info about what SWORD
output from a module entry to a frontend for a particular format.
Diatheke is not a bad tool to use, but it is certainly not considered
any kind of standard.  I have no idea why it is, for example, showing
headings AFTER verse 1.  This is certainly a bug and has likely been
fixed since the version you are using.

Having said that, it works for me:

[scribe@localhost diatheke]$ ./diatheke  -b NASB -f plain -k ps 5.1
  For the choir director; for flute accompaniment. A Psalm of David.
  Psalms 5:1:
Give

Re: [sword-devel] NASB Psalm titles

[David Haslam]

I have created issue MOD-367 for this module bug.

David

Sent from ProtonMail Mobile

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 13:55, David Haslam  wrote:

> Is this simply because the OSIS file used for module build made use of the 
> milestone form of the div element ?
>
> SWORD does not support that, IIRC.
>
> I just looked at the mod2imp dump for the NASB.
>
> There are 2250 instances of this type of div, each with an sID and an eID.
>
> Aside: Repeating the type and subType attributes with the eID is also 
> superfluous.
>
> Troy can look into this, and propose an improvement to the source OSIS.
>
> Best regards,
>
> David
>
> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>
> On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 13:21, Tom Sullivan  wrote:
>
>> Yes, the box is checked.
>>
>> Note also that diatheke has the same problem.
>>
>> Tom Sullivan
>> i...@beforgiven.info
>> FAX: 815-301-2835
>> -
>>
>> On 5/8/20 7:06 AM, Karl Kleinpaste wrote:
>>> On 5/8/20 5:55 AM, Tom Sullivan wrote:
 Xiphos 4.1.0 displays titles for ESV2011, not NASB
>>>
>>> Have you enabled headings in NASB's module options?
>>>
>>> __
>>> This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
>>> For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
>>> __
>>>
>>> ___
>>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org
>>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>>>
>>
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Re: [sword-devel] NASB Psalm titles

[Troy A. Griffitts]

So, a few things here.

On 5/8/20 9:57 AM, Tom Sullivan wrote:
> Troy, Karl:
>
> (Karl:
> [NASB]
> Heading=On)

I have no idea what you are showing here.  This looks like a .conf
setting.  Xiphos may pay attention to Heading=On, but this doesn't mean
anything to SWORD.


> I am using Debian Buster (10) (stable). This is the current stable
> version of Debian and is the one generally recommended. It is the
> version those of us who have work to do use, rather than mess with a
> buggy OS. (There is a more recent Debian version generally titled
> testing, but it is not as reliable.)
>
> I have mentioned my versions before. Others can comment on their
> current status:
>
> Diatheke: 4.7
> Xiphos: 4.1.0
> Sword (from osis2mod): 3431 (This should be current as I compiled for
> the new version when it came out earlier.)

So, you are not reporting the version of SWORD you are using if you are
getting that information from osis2mod.  osis2mod shows the last edited
revision of the osis2mod utility.  That tools hasn't been updated since
2016, so it will report that revision.  SWORD is currently at 3725


> I understand that there is a new version of Xiphos, but Xiphos is not
> the only program not showing Psalm titles. (I hope to see a Debian
> package for Xiphos soon, if not when I get a chance, I can try to
> compile, but that always has difficulties.)
>
> I repeat here the results from Diatheke:
> (I was given to understand that this is the gold standard for seeing
> if the problem is in the module or Sword vs. front-ends.)
>
No.  diatheke is certainly not the gold standard for seeing anything.
Diatheke has bugs of its own.  I personally use
sword/examples/cmdline/lookup.cpp to check all info about what SWORD
output from a module entry to a frontend for a particular format. 
Diatheke is not a bad tool to use, but it is certainly not considered
any kind of standard.  I have no idea why it is, for example, showing
headings AFTER verse 1.  This is certainly a bug and has likely been
fixed since the version you are using.

Having said that, it works for me:

[scribe@localhost diatheke]$ ./diatheke  -b NASB -f plain -k ps 5.1
 For the choir director; for flute accompaniment. A Psalm of David.
 Psalms 5:1:
Give ear to my words, O LORD, Consider my groaning.
(NASB)

Karl has said that he can see the NASB Psalm titles fine in his instance
of Xiphos.

My guess is that the NASB uses the latest version of osis2mod and
SWORD-supported markup and what you have on your system does not support
entirely all of this markup.

I am happy to hear of problems, but I am not sure what we can do to fix
things if you are reporting problems with old version which we can't
reproduce in the latest versions.

I am sad we have old versions out there in distributions.

Troy


> $ diatheke -b ESV2011 -f plain -k ps 5.1-2
> Psalms 5:1:  Give ear to my words, O Lord;
> consider my groaning.
>
>   To the choirmaster: for the flutes. A Psalm of David.
>   Psalms 5:2: Give attention to the sound of my cry,
> my King and my God,
> for to you do I pray.
>
> (ESV2011)
> $ diatheke -b KJV -f plain -k ps 5.1-2
> Psalms 5:1: Give ear to my words, O LORD, consider my meditation.
> To the chief Musician upon Nehiloth, A Psalm of David.
> Psalms 5:2: Hearken unto the voice of my cry, my King, and my God: for
> unto thee will I pray.
> (KJV)
> $ diatheke -b NASB -f plain -k ps 5.1-2
> Psalms 5:1:
> Give ear to my words, O LORD, Consider my groaning.
>   Psalms 5:2:
> Heed the sound of my cry for help, my King and my God, For to You I pray.
> (NASB)
>
> And I repeat here the *differences* in how front ends handle things:
> BibleDesktop displays the canonical title in a different color than
> the human title. This does not mean that I accuse any front-ends per-se.
>
> BibleTime displays both the human and canonical the same.
>
> Xiphos 4.1.0 displays titles for ESV2011, not NASB
>
> Tom Sullivan
> i...@beforgiven.info
> FAX: 815-301-2835
> -
> Great News!
> God created you, owns you and gave you commands to obey.
> You have disobeyed God - as your conscience very well attests to you.
> God's holiness and justice compel Him to punish you in Hell.
> Jesus Christ became Man, was crucified, buried and rose from the dead
> as a substitute for all who trust in Him, redeeming them from Hell.
> If you repent (turn from your sin) and believe (trust) in Jesus Christ,
> you will go to Heaven. Otherwise you will go to Hell.
> Warning! Good works are a result, not cause, of saving trust.
> More info is at www.esig.beforgiven.info
> Do you believe this? Copy this signature into your email program
> and use the Internet to spread the Great News every time you email.
>
> On 5/8/20 12:30 PM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote:
>> Good morning!
>>
>> So, lots of conversation.  I've read it all and can't determine if there
>> is still a problem to be fixed.
>>
>> First, it sounds like Tom is using an old version of software.  Please
>> be sure you are using the latest ver

Re: [sword-devel] NASB Psalm titles

[Tom Sullivan]

Troy, Karl:

(Karl:
[NASB]
Heading=On)

I am using Debian Buster (10) (stable). This is the current stable 
version of Debian and is the one generally recommended. It is the 
version those of us who have work to do use, rather than mess with a 
buggy OS. (There is a more recent Debian version generally titled 
testing, but it is not as reliable.)


I have mentioned my versions before. Others can comment on their current 
status:


Diatheke: 4.7
Xiphos: 4.1.0
Sword (from osis2mod): 3431 (This should be current as I compiled for 
the new version when it came out earlier.)


I understand that there is a new version of Xiphos, but Xiphos is not 
the only program not showing Psalm titles. (I hope to see a Debian 
package for Xiphos soon, if not when I get a chance, I can try to 
compile, but that always has difficulties.)


I repeat here the results from Diatheke:
(I was given to understand that this is the gold standard for seeing if 
the problem is in the module or Sword vs. front-ends.)


$ diatheke -b ESV2011 -f plain -k ps 5.1-2
Psalms 5:1:  Give ear to my words, O Lord;
consider my groaning.

  To the choirmaster: for the flutes. A Psalm of David.
  Psalms 5:2: Give attention to the sound of my cry,
my King and my God,
for to you do I pray.

(ESV2011)
$ diatheke -b KJV -f plain -k ps 5.1-2
Psalms 5:1: Give ear to my words, O LORD, consider my meditation.
To the chief Musician upon Nehiloth, A Psalm of David.
Psalms 5:2: Hearken unto the voice of my cry, my King, and my God: for 
unto thee will I pray.

(KJV)
$ diatheke -b NASB -f plain -k ps 5.1-2
Psalms 5:1:
Give ear to my words, O LORD, Consider my groaning.
  Psalms 5:2:
Heed the sound of my cry for help, my King and my God, For to You I pray.
(NASB)

And I repeat here the *differences* in how front ends handle things:
BibleDesktop displays the canonical title in a different color than the 
human title. This does not mean that I accuse any front-ends per-se.


BibleTime displays both the human and canonical the same.

Xiphos 4.1.0 displays titles for ESV2011, not NASB

Tom Sullivan
i...@beforgiven.info
FAX: 815-301-2835
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On 5/8/20 12:30 PM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote:

Good morning!

So, lots of conversation.  I've read it all and can't determine if there
is still a problem to be fixed.

First, it sounds like Tom is using an old version of software.  Please
be sure you are using the latest version of software before pursuing
problems.  It sounds like Karl is saying that the latest version of
Xiphos works.  Is this correct?

SWORD has always attempted to leave canonical titles in the display,
even if headings are turned off.  We may have had bugs over the years
causing this to not worked, but I hope it hasn't been so often as to
make anyone think this is how SWORD has "always" worked.  I confirm that
asking for Psalm 5.1 without headings turned on still returns the
canonical title (and correctly strips out the non-canonical title) there.

"canonical" in OSIS for Bibles does indeed mean "what was originally in
the Bible."  It does not not mean "was was originally in the NASB."  It
is meant as a utility to differentiate editorial material from the
original work (=Bible; not NASB).  OSIS canonical when encoding a Bible
mean what we all think canonical means.  It is a statement about what
this edition claims is there in the original "Bible", however that
edition defines the term "Bible".

SWORD /should/ mark all canonical titles appropriately so they can be
rendered differently, if that is the desire.  Checking the NASB, they
are rendered appropriately in an element with:

class="title psalm canonical"

So, is there any issue we need to address?

Troy



On 5/8/20 8:42 AM, Tom Sullivan wrote:

My reference to verse numbers was only to show that others also
considered the Psalm titles to be canonical.

Tom Sullivan
i...@beforgiven.info
FAX: 815-301-2835
-


On 5/8/20 11:01 AM, David Haslam wrote:

The original Hebrew text had no “verse numbers”.

It’s anachronistic to assert that it did.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapters_and_verses_of_the_Bible


Modern printed editions of the MT have verse numbers “retrofitted”
simply for ease of use.

The Wikiped

Re: [sword-devel] NASB Psalm titles

[David Haslam]

Is this simply because the OSIS file used for module build made use of the 
milestone form of the div element ?

SWORD does not support that, IIRC.

I just looked at the mod2imp dump for the NASB.

There are 2250 instances of this type of div, each with an sID and an eID.

Aside: Repeating the type and subType attributes with the eID is also 
superfluous.

Troy can look into this, and propose an improvement to the source OSIS.

Best regards,

David

Sent from ProtonMail Mobile

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 13:21, Tom Sullivan  wrote:

> Yes, the box is checked.
>
> Note also that diatheke has the same problem.
>
> Tom Sullivan
> i...@beforgiven.info
> FAX: 815-301-2835
> -
>
> On 5/8/20 7:06 AM, Karl Kleinpaste wrote:
>> On 5/8/20 5:55 AM, Tom Sullivan wrote:
>>> Xiphos 4.1.0 displays titles for ESV2011, not NASB
>>
>> Have you enabled headings in NASB's module options?
>>
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Re: [sword-devel] NASB Psalm titles

[Karl Kleinpaste]

On 5/8/20 12:30 PM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote:
> It sounds like Karl is saying that the latest version of
> Xiphos works.  Is this correct?

Tom's report seems to indicate that no headers are displayed, no matter
what he does. This makes no sense to me, because headers on/off has been
part of Xiphos since it was GnomeSword.  If he turns on headers
(default=on anyway), they should display, in any version of Xiphos back
to its origins.

He might look at .xiphos/modops.conf to see what's set for NASB.
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Re: [sword-devel] NASB Psalm titles

[Troy A. Griffitts]

Good morning!

So, lots of conversation.  I've read it all and can't determine if there
is still a problem to be fixed.

First, it sounds like Tom is using an old version of software.  Please
be sure you are using the latest version of software before pursuing
problems.  It sounds like Karl is saying that the latest version of
Xiphos works.  Is this correct?

SWORD has always attempted to leave canonical titles in the display,
even if headings are turned off.  We may have had bugs over the years
causing this to not worked, but I hope it hasn't been so often as to
make anyone think this is how SWORD has "always" worked.  I confirm that
asking for Psalm 5.1 without headings turned on still returns the
canonical title (and correctly strips out the non-canonical title) there.

"canonical" in OSIS for Bibles does indeed mean "what was originally in
the Bible."  It does not not mean "was was originally in the NASB."  It
is meant as a utility to differentiate editorial material from the
original work (=Bible; not NASB).  OSIS canonical when encoding a Bible
mean what we all think canonical means.  It is a statement about what
this edition claims is there in the original "Bible", however that
edition defines the term "Bible".

SWORD /should/ mark all canonical titles appropriately so they can be
rendered differently, if that is the desire.  Checking the NASB, they
are rendered appropriately in an element with:

class="title psalm canonical"

So, is there any issue we need to address?

Troy



On 5/8/20 8:42 AM, Tom Sullivan wrote:
> My reference to verse numbers was only to show that others also
> considered the Psalm titles to be canonical.
>
> Tom Sullivan
> i...@beforgiven.info
> FAX: 815-301-2835
> -
>
>
> On 5/8/20 11:01 AM, David Haslam wrote:
>> The original Hebrew text had no “verse numbers”.
>>
>> It’s anachronistic to assert that it did.
>>
>> See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapters_and_verses_of_the_Bible
>> 
>>
>> Modern printed editions of the MT have verse numbers “retrofitted”
>> simply for ease of use.
>>
>> The Wikipedia article on Psalms is also instructive.
>> How Psalms are numbered and versified is quite a complex matter.
>> It’s just one of the factors we have to take account of under
>> Alternative Versification.
>>
>> David
>>
>> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 15:49, Tom Sullivan > > wrote:
>>> Y'all:
>>>
>>> My Biblia Hebraica treats Psalm titles as the first verse, indicating
>>> biblical canonacity and in line with Hebrew versification.
>>>
>>> Note the following from OSIS doc, OSIS.pdf:
>>>
>>> Appendix B.2.10 titles
>>> The type attribute on the title element is used to allow special
>>> rendering of particular titles, as well as
>>> searching for particular types of titles in the text.identify the type
>>> of note that appears in the text. Note that
>>> the values for the type attribute must be entered exactly as shown, all
>>> others must use the "x-" extension
>>> mechanism.
>>> If the user needs to record a type of title in the text that is not
>>> covered by these values, please use the OSIS
>>> attribute extension mechanism, "x-" in front of the name of your value
>>> for this attribute.
>>> .
>>> .
>>> psalm Use in the Psalms where what are considered "titles" in the
>>> English text are actually numbered
>>> as verses in the Hebrew text.
>>>
>>> David's point about canonicity is well taken, but we must consider:
>>> 1. Are we considering canonicity with respect to the NASB as published,
>>> OR
>>> 2. Are we considering canonicity with respect to how the NASB
>>> publishers
>>> saw it, that is that the Scripture text is cannonical. If we make this
>>> decision, we are simply electronically duplicating the paper
>>> publication.
>>>
>>> IMHO, 2. is the far better choice.
>>>
>>> Hope this helps, and thanks again to all.
>>>
>>> Tom Sullivan
>>> i...@beforgiven.info
>>> FAX: 815-301-2835
>>> -
>>>
>>> On 5/8/20 10:28 AM, David Haslam wrote:
 One of the subtleties of OSIS is that the canonical attribute is
 actually not a theological matter.

 It’s easy to jump to the wrong conclusion that SWORD treats it as
>>> if it was.
 It’s actually a technical attribute relating to the published work it
 represents in digital format.
 So it can just as well appear in a Commentary module as a Bible
>>> module.
 Anything with canonical=“false” should in theory at least be only
 because the marked text was not in the original work.

 Then the question becomes “What was the original work?”

 I will leave you to ponder

 David

 Sent from ProtonMail Mobile


 On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 15:09, Karl Kleinpaste >>> > wrote:
> On 5/8/20 10:00 AM, Tom Sullivan wrote:
>> because Psalm titles are canonical, front-end

Re: [sword-devel] NASB Psalm titles

[Tom Sullivan]

My reference to verse numbers was only to show that others also 
considered the Psalm titles to be canonical.


Tom Sullivan
i...@beforgiven.info
FAX: 815-301-2835
-


On 5/8/20 11:01 AM, David Haslam wrote:

The original Hebrew text had no “verse numbers”.

It’s anachronistic to assert that it did.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapters_and_verses_of_the_Bible 



Modern printed editions of the MT have verse numbers “retrofitted” 
simply for ease of use.


The Wikipedia article on Psalms is also instructive.
How Psalms are numbered and versified is quite a complex matter.
It’s just one of the factors we have to take account of under 
Alternative Versification.


David

Sent from ProtonMail Mobile


On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 15:49, Tom Sullivan > wrote:

Y'all:

My Biblia Hebraica treats Psalm titles as the first verse, indicating
biblical canonacity and in line with Hebrew versification.

Note the following from OSIS doc, OSIS.pdf:

Appendix B.2.10 titles
The type attribute on the title element is used to allow special
rendering of particular titles, as well as
searching for particular types of titles in the text.identify the type
of note that appears in the text. Note that
the values for the type attribute must be entered exactly as shown, all
others must use the "x-" extension
mechanism.
If the user needs to record a type of title in the text that is not
covered by these values, please use the OSIS
attribute extension mechanism, "x-" in front of the name of your value
for this attribute.
.
.
psalm Use in the Psalms where what are considered "titles" in the
English text are actually numbered
as verses in the Hebrew text.

David's point about canonicity is well taken, but we must consider:
1. Are we considering canonicity with respect to the NASB as published,
OR
2. Are we considering canonicity with respect to how the NASB publishers
saw it, that is that the Scripture text is cannonical. If we make this
decision, we are simply electronically duplicating the paper publication.

IMHO, 2. is the far better choice.

Hope this helps, and thanks again to all.

Tom Sullivan
i...@beforgiven.info
FAX: 815-301-2835
-

On 5/8/20 10:28 AM, David Haslam wrote:
> One of the subtleties of OSIS is that the canonical attribute is
> actually not a theological matter.
>
> It’s easy to jump to the wrong conclusion that SWORD treats it as if 
it was.

>
> It’s actually a technical attribute relating to the published work it
> represents in digital format.
> So it can just as well appear in a Commentary module as a Bible module.
>
> Anything with canonical=“false” should in theory at least be only
> because the marked text was not in the original work.
>
> Then the question becomes “What was the original work?”
>
> I will leave you to ponder
>
> David
>
> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>
>
> On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 15:09, Karl Kleinpaste  > wrote:
>> On 5/8/20 10:00 AM, Tom Sullivan wrote:
>> > because Psalm titles are canonical, front-ends should put a 
difference

>> > in display between them and human editor supplied titles.
>>
>> It's a fine idea, but it requires (in the xhtml case) the engine to 
wrap
>> such titles in a suitable  so that a CSS control can 
put it

>> to use, with appropriate new default render header content for it.
>>
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Re: [sword-devel] NASB Psalm titles

[Karl Kleinpaste]

On 5/8/20 10:49 AM, Tom Sullivan wrote:
> My Biblia Hebraica treats Psalm titles as the first verse, indicating
> biblical canonacity and in line with Hebrew versification. 

No one is questioning canonicity.

It's a matter of some code, and whether it fully represents what was
intended.  In other words, maybe a bug.  We code a lot of bugs.  We fix
a lot of bugs.  Doing something better may be in order here, I'm sure. 
Speaking as the guy most responsible for crawling around the dark & evil
guts of xiphos/src/main/display.cc, even canonical headers have to be
presented to the app by the engine via pre-verse mechanisms because the
code structure surrounding obtaining material and pasting it into the
HTML widget requires that I get stuff preceding the first verse marker
separately from the stuff following the first verse marker.  Whether
canonical Psalm headers need to be distinguished from publishers'
headers is another matter.
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Re: [sword-devel] NASB Psalm titles

[DM Smith]

The pre-verse div is a construct by osis2mod. These are milestoned to mark the 
beginning and end of pre-verse material.

DM

> On May 8, 2020, at 8:55 AM, David Haslam  wrote:
> 
> Is this simply because the OSIS file used for module build made use of the 
> milestone form of the div element ?
> 
> SWORD does not support that, IIRC.
> 
> I just looked at the mod2imp dump for the NASB.
> 
> There are 2250 instances of this type of div, each with an sID and an eID.
> 
> Aside: Repeating the type and subType attributes with the eID is also 
> superfluous.
> 
> Troy can look into this, and propose an improvement to the source OSIS.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> 
> David
> 
> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
> 
> 
> On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 13:21, Tom Sullivan  > wrote:
>> 
>> Yes, the box is checked.
>> 
>> Note also that diatheke has the same problem.
>> 
>> Tom Sullivan
>> i...@beforgiven.info
>> FAX: 815-301-2835
>> -
>> 
>> On 5/8/20 7:06 AM, Karl Kleinpaste wrote:
>> > On 5/8/20 5:55 AM, Tom Sullivan wrote:
>> >> Xiphos 4.1.0 displays titles for ESV2011, not NASB
>> >
>> > Have you enabled headings in NASB's module options?
>> >
>> > __
>> > This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
>> > For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
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Re: [sword-devel] NASB Psalm titles

[Tom Sullivan]

Y'all:

My Biblia Hebraica treats Psalm titles as the first verse, indicating 
biblical canonacity and in line with Hebrew versification.


Note the following from OSIS doc, OSIS.pdf:

Appendix B.2.10 titles
The type attribute on the title element is used to allow special 
rendering of particular titles, as well as
searching for particular types of titles in the text.identify the type 
of note that appears in the text. Note that
the values for the type attribute must be entered exactly as shown, all 
others must use the "x-" extension

mechanism.
If the user needs to record a type of title in the text that is not 
covered by these values, please use the OSIS
attribute extension mechanism, "x-" in front of the name of your value 
for this attribute.

.
.
psalm Use in the Psalms where what are considered "titles" in the 
English text are actually numbered

as verses in the Hebrew text.

David's point about canonicity is well taken, but we must consider:
1. Are we considering canonicity with respect to the NASB as published,
OR
2. Are we considering canonicity with respect to how the NASB publishers 
saw it, that is that the Scripture text is cannonical. If we make this 
decision, we are simply electronically duplicating the paper publication.


IMHO, 2. is the far better choice.

Hope this helps, and thanks again to all.

Tom Sullivan
i...@beforgiven.info
FAX: 815-301-2835
-

On 5/8/20 10:28 AM, David Haslam wrote:
One of the subtleties of OSIS is that the canonical attribute is 
actually not a theological matter.


It’s easy to jump to the wrong conclusion that SWORD treats it as if it was.

It’s actually a technical attribute relating to the published work it 
represents in digital format.

So it can just as well appear in a Commentary module as a Bible module.

Anything with canonical=“false” should in theory at least be only 
because the marked text was not in the original work.


Then the question becomes “What was the original work?”

I will leave you to ponder

David

Sent from ProtonMail Mobile


On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 15:09, Karl Kleinpaste > wrote:

On 5/8/20 10:00 AM, Tom Sullivan wrote:
> because Psalm titles are canonical, front-ends should put a difference
> in display between them and human editor supplied titles.

It's a fine idea, but it requires (in the xhtml case) the engine to wrap
such titles in a suitable  so that a CSS control can put it
to use, with appropriate new default render header content for it.

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Re: [sword-devel] NASB Psalm titles

[DM Smith]

osis2mod preserves properly marked Psalm titles before verse 1 as part of that 
verse. Other titles (and other pre-verse content) will either be put in verse 0 
or in verse 1 based on other considerations. This is documented in the wiki for 
osis2mod.

In Him,
DM

> On May 8, 2020, at 10:28 AM, Tom Sullivan  wrote:
> 
> Y'all:
> 
> Thanks David.
> 
> The Psalm titles are considered canonical because they are the Word of God! 
> If Sword does not display them when the user would expect them, that that is 
> monkeying with God's Word and completely unacceptable. The Psalm titles are 
> theologically and exegetically significant.
> 
> Switching off human editor titles should *not* switch off Psalm titles any 
> more than switching off any of the verses of the Psalm would be acceptable.
> 
> So, we have a Sword issue here in addition to a module issue.
> 
> Obviously, there are questions here in terms of presentation of partial 
> Psalms, and decisions must be carefully made. A request for "Ps 5" should 
> always present the title because God put it there. A request for "Ps 5:2-4" 
> need not. But what about "Ps 5:1"? I am OK either way, so long as the user 
> can do "Ps 5.0" or Ps 5:0-1" or something to get it, and it is clearly 
> documented. But probably GUI front ends should display title unless only "Ps 
> 5:1" is requested and the GUI would normally return just that verse. If the 
> GUI normally shows the whole Psalm (perhaps after scrolling up) the title 
> should be there.
> 
> In contrast to GUI front ends, with diatheke, I recognize the problem with 
> versification here, and am not sure what to suggest. Should they be verse 0?
> 
> diatheke should display them above the first verse. But perhaps either a 
> command line option should switch them on or off, or maybe use verse 0?
> 
> In sum here, we have a Sword issue here as well as a module issue.
> 
> Hope this helps, and thanks all.
> 
> Tom Sullivan
> i...@beforgiven.info
> FAX: 815-301-2835
> -
> 
> 
> On 5/8/20 10:04 AM, David Haslam wrote:
>> The difference is that JSword never hides titles with canonical=“true” even 
>> with Headings OFF.
>> SWORD does and always has done.
>> David
>> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>> On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 15:00, Tom Sullivan > > wrote:
>>> Karl:
>>> 
>>> I cannot explain the difference between your linked picture and my
>>> results on Xiphos 4.1.0. The problem survived unchecking/rechecking and
>>> reboot.
>>> 
>>> But if you look at my first email, you will note that diatheke does
>>> produce Psalm titles for ESV2011 and KJV, but after the first verse. You
>>> have to ask for verses 1 to 2 or higher. That is an issue in diatheke,
>>> but I can live with that. But I do not get them for NASB via diatheke.
>>> 
>>> So this reinforces my (amateur) guess that the issue is in the module
>>> and the Psalm titles are not being recognized as canonical by front-ends.
>>> 
>>> IMHO, because Psalm titles are canonical, front-ends should put a
>>> difference in display between them and human editor supplied titles.
>>> 
>>> Hope this helps.
>>> 
>>> Thanks all.
>>> 
>>> Tom Sullivan
>>> i...@beforgiven.info
>>> FAX: 815-301-2835
>>> -
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 5/8/20 9:28 AM, Karl Kleinpaste wrote:
>>> > On 5/8/20 8:21 AM, Tom Sullivan wrote:
>>> >> Yes, the box is checked.
>>> >
>>> > The reason I ask is that I see this just fine in Xiphos.
>>> > http://karl.kleinpaste.org/xiphos/nasb-ps-5-1.png
>>> > (pardon the colors, I do CSS things to make certain stuff really obvious.)
>>> >
>>> > diatheke doesn't produce headers, not even when asked with "-o h".
>>> >
>>> > __
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>>> > For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
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Re: [sword-devel] NASB Psalm titles

[Tom Sullivan]

Y'all:

Thanks David.

The Psalm titles are considered canonical because they are the Word of 
God! If Sword does not display them when the user would expect them, 
that that is monkeying with God's Word and completely unacceptable. The 
Psalm titles are theologically and exegetically significant.


Switching off human editor titles should *not* switch off Psalm titles 
any more than switching off any of the verses of the Psalm would be 
acceptable.


So, we have a Sword issue here in addition to a module issue.

Obviously, there are questions here in terms of presentation of partial 
Psalms, and decisions must be carefully made. A request for "Ps 5" 
should always present the title because God put it there. A request for 
"Ps 5:2-4" need not. But what about "Ps 5:1"? I am OK either way, so 
long as the user can do "Ps 5.0" or Ps 5:0-1" or something to get it, 
and it is clearly documented. But probably GUI front ends should display 
title unless only "Ps 5:1" is requested and the GUI would normally 
return just that verse. If the GUI normally shows the whole Psalm 
(perhaps after scrolling up) the title should be there.


In contrast to GUI front ends, with diatheke, I recognize the problem 
with versification here, and am not sure what to suggest. Should they be 
verse 0?


diatheke should display them above the first verse. But perhaps either a 
command line option should switch them on or off, or maybe use verse 0?


In sum here, we have a Sword issue here as well as a module issue.

Hope this helps, and thanks all.

Tom Sullivan
i...@beforgiven.info
FAX: 815-301-2835
-


On 5/8/20 10:04 AM, David Haslam wrote:
The difference is that JSword never hides titles with canonical=“true” 
even with Headings OFF.

SWORD does and always has done.

David

Sent from ProtonMail Mobile


On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 15:00, Tom Sullivan > wrote:

Karl:

I cannot explain the difference between your linked picture and my
results on Xiphos 4.1.0. The problem survived unchecking/rechecking and
reboot.

But if you look at my first email, you will note that diatheke does
produce Psalm titles for ESV2011 and KJV, but after the first verse. You
have to ask for verses 1 to 2 or higher. That is an issue in diatheke,
but I can live with that. But I do not get them for NASB via diatheke.

So this reinforces my (amateur) guess that the issue is in the module
and the Psalm titles are not being recognized as canonical by front-ends.

IMHO, because Psalm titles are canonical, front-ends should put a
difference in display between them and human editor supplied titles.

Hope this helps.

Thanks all.

Tom Sullivan
i...@beforgiven.info
FAX: 815-301-2835
-


On 5/8/20 9:28 AM, Karl Kleinpaste wrote:
> On 5/8/20 8:21 AM, Tom Sullivan wrote:
>> Yes, the box is checked.
>
> The reason I ask is that I see this just fine in Xiphos.
> http://karl.kleinpaste.org/xiphos/nasb-ps-5-1.png
> (pardon the colors, I do CSS things to make certain stuff really 
obvious.)

>
> diatheke doesn't produce headers, not even when asked with "-o h".
>
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Re: [sword-devel] NASB Psalm titles

[Karl Kleinpaste]

On 5/8/20 10:00 AM, Tom Sullivan wrote:
> because Psalm titles are canonical, front-ends should put a difference
> in display between them and human editor supplied titles.

It's a fine idea, but it requires (in the xhtml case) the engine to wrap
such titles in a suitable  so that a CSS control can put it
to use, with appropriate new default render header content for it.

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Re: [sword-devel] NASB Psalm titles

[Tom Sullivan]

Karl:

I cannot explain the difference between your linked picture and my 
results on Xiphos 4.1.0. The problem survived unchecking/rechecking and 
reboot.


But if you look at my first email, you will note that diatheke does 
produce Psalm titles for ESV2011 and KJV, but after the first verse. You 
have to ask for verses 1 to 2 or higher. That is an issue in diatheke, 
but I can live with that. But I do not get them for NASB via diatheke.


So this reinforces my (amateur) guess that the issue is in the module 
and the Psalm titles are not being recognized as canonical by front-ends.


IMHO, because Psalm titles are canonical, front-ends should put a 
difference in display between them and human editor supplied titles.


Hope this helps.

Thanks all.

Tom Sullivan
i...@beforgiven.info
FAX: 815-301-2835
-


On 5/8/20 9:28 AM, Karl Kleinpaste wrote:

On 5/8/20 8:21 AM, Tom Sullivan wrote:
Yes, the box is checked. 


The reason I ask is that I see this just fine in Xiphos.
http://karl.kleinpaste.org/xiphos/nasb-ps-5-1.png
(pardon the colors, I do CSS things to make certain stuff really obvious.)

diatheke doesn't produce headers, not even when asked with "-o h".

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Re: [sword-devel] NASB Psalm titles

[Karl Kleinpaste]

On 5/8/20 8:21 AM, Tom Sullivan wrote:
> Yes, the box is checked. 

The reason I ask is that I see this just fine in Xiphos.
http://karl.kleinpaste.org/xiphos/nasb-ps-5-1.png
(pardon the colors, I do CSS things to make certain stuff really obvious.)

diatheke doesn't produce headers, not even when asked with "-o h".
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Re: [sword-devel] NASB Psalm titles

[Tom Sullivan]

Yes, the box is checked.

Note also that diatheke has the same problem.

Tom Sullivan
i...@beforgiven.info
FAX: 815-301-2835
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On 5/8/20 7:06 AM, Karl Kleinpaste wrote:

On 5/8/20 5:55 AM, Tom Sullivan wrote:
Xiphos 4.1.0 displays titles for ESV2011, not NASB 


Have you enabled headings in NASB's module options?

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Re: [sword-devel] NASB Psalm titles

[Karl Kleinpaste]

On 5/8/20 5:55 AM, Tom Sullivan wrote:
> Xiphos 4.1.0 displays titles for ESV2011, not NASB 

Have you enabled headings in NASB's module options?
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[sword-devel] NASB Psalm titles

[Tom Sullivan]

Y'all:

The NASB module, in combination with Sword, does not seem to treat Psalm 
titles as canonical. As noted below, JSword does not seem to have the 
problem, Sword does. So is there some incompatibility or bad OSIS going 
on here?


Thanks.

Details below. Comparisons with other modules.

$ osis2mod
You are running osis2mod: $Rev: 3431 $
OSIS Bible/commentary module creation tool for The SWORD Project

$ diatheke -b ESV2011 -f plain -k ps 5.1-2
Psalms 5:1:  Give ear to my words, O Lord;
consider my groaning.

  To the choirmaster: for the flutes. A Psalm of David.
  Psalms 5:2: Give attention to the sound of my cry,
my King and my God,
for to you do I pray.

(ESV2011)
$ diatheke -b KJV -f plain -k ps 5.1-2
Psalms 5:1: Give ear to my words, O LORD, consider my meditation.
To the chief Musician upon Nehiloth, A Psalm of David.
Psalms 5:2: Hearken unto the voice of my cry, my King, and my God: for 
unto thee will I pray.

(KJV)
$ diatheke -b NASB -f plain -k ps 5.1-2
Psalms 5:1:
Give ear to my words, O LORD, Consider my groaning.
  Psalms 5:2:
Heed the sound of my cry for help, my King and my God, For to You I pray.
(NASB)

BibleDesktop displays the canonical title in a different color than the 
human title.


BibleTime displays both the human and canonical the same.

Xiphos 4.1.0 displays titles for ESV2011, not NASB

--
Tom Sullivan
i...@beforgiven.info
FAX: 815-301-2835
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