Re: [systemd-devel] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1047614

2014-04-03 Thread Reindl Harald

Am 12.02.2014 21:19, schrieb Lennart Poettering:
 On Wed, 12.02.14 20:05, Reindl Harald (h.rei...@thelounge.net) wrote:
 maybe systemd-upstream should consider slow down development
 and spend more energy in quality and stability
 
 Well, firstly, it's hardly your business how we spend our time

looks like it's also not Linus business
http://www.spinics.net/lists/kernel/msg1716484.html
__

From: Linus Torvalds torvalds@
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2014 16:13:27 -0700

It does become a problem when you have a system service developer who
thinks the universe revolves around him, and nobody else matters, and
people sending him bug-reports are annoyances that should be ignored
rather than acknowledged and fixed. At that point, it's a problem.



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
___
systemd-devel mailing list
systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel


[systemd-devel] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1047614

2014-02-12 Thread Reindl Harald
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1047614

Product:Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7
Component:  systemd (Show other bugs)
Version:7.0
Hardware:   Unspecified Unspecified
Priorityurgent Severity high

first reported more than 3 months ago
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1023788

maybe systemd-upstream should consider slow down development
and spend more energy in quality and stability



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
___
systemd-devel mailing list
systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel


Re: [systemd-devel] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1047614

2014-02-12 Thread Greg KH
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 08:05:47PM +0100, Reindl Harald wrote:
 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1047614
 
 Product:  Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7
 Component:systemd (Show other bugs)
 Version:  7.0
 Hardware: Unspecified Unspecified
 Priority  urgent Severity high
 
 first reported more than 3 months ago
 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1023788

This issue has been debugged already, see the mailing list archives.

 maybe systemd-upstream should consider slow down development
 and spend more energy in quality and stability

How exactly would you suggest something like this be done?

greg k-h
___
systemd-devel mailing list
systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel


Re: [systemd-devel] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1047614

2014-02-12 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Wed, 12.02.14 20:05, Reindl Harald (h.rei...@thelounge.net) wrote:

 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1047614
 
 Product:  Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7
 Component:systemd (Show other bugs)
 Version:  7.0
 Hardware: Unspecified Unspecified
 Priority  urgent Severity high
 
 first reported more than 3 months ago
 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1023788
 
 maybe systemd-upstream should consider slow down development
 and spend more energy in quality and stability

Well, firstly, it's hardly your business how we spend our time.

Secondly, this bug is fixed upstream.

Thirdly, patches count more than complaining.

Lennart

-- 
Lennart Poettering, Red Hat
___
systemd-devel mailing list
systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel


Re: [systemd-devel] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1047614

2014-02-12 Thread Reindl Harald


Am 12.02.2014 21:19, schrieb Lennart Poettering:
 On Wed, 12.02.14 20:05, Reindl Harald (h.rei...@thelounge.net) wrote:
 
 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1047614

 Product: Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7
 Component:   systemd (Show other bugs)
 Version: 7.0
 Hardware:Unspecified Unspecified
 Priority urgent Severity high

 first reported more than 3 months ago
 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1023788

 maybe systemd-upstream should consider slow down development
 and spend more energy in quality and stability
 
 Well, firstly, it's hardly your business how we spend our time

firstly it's my business to say my opinion if i get hit by the
result daily and as i woke up that morning i saw a free world
which permits that

your opinion: i do not care about downstream

my optinion:  bad attitude in case downstream is the public
testbed of your employer with the userbase giving you the
needed feedback for work in progress on real world setups

the truth is likely somewhere between

 Secondly, this bug is fixed upstream

and that is what i call release-and-forget strategy
it has not made it in any Fedora package right now

http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/packageinfo?packageID=10477

and no http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=491024
does not make things better, it breaks systemd-logind and floods
logs - i had installed it a few minutes after build and reverted

so finally there is no change downstream over months

 Thirdly, patches count more than complaining

that may be true, if i not would face the same bug and
it's friends in F20 day for day i would not need to complain



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
___
systemd-devel mailing list
systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel


Re: [systemd-devel] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1047614

2014-02-12 Thread Tomasz Torcz
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 08:05:47PM +0100, Reindl Harald wrote:
 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1047614
 
 Product:  Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7
 Component:systemd (Show other bugs)
 Version:  7.0

  That's some downstream distro bug.  And this is Fedora mailinglist.
RHEL issues are offtopic here.

-- 
Tomasz Torcz God, root, what's the difference?
xmpp: zdzich...@chrome.pl God is more forgiving.

___
systemd-devel mailing list
systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel


Re: [systemd-devel] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1047614

2014-02-12 Thread Reindl Harald
my last post for this topic before i get blocked again by
disturbing development in peace with real user problems

i thought so once per month it's woth to make notice

Am 12.02.2014 21:37, schrieb Tomasz Torcz:
 On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 08:05:47PM +0100, Reindl Harald wrote:
 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1047614

 Product: Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7
 Component:   systemd (Show other bugs)
 Version: 7.0
 
 That's some downstream distro bug

this is *the* downstream distro
this is *the* employer paing systemd project-leader

 And this is Fedora mailinglist
 RHEL issues are offtopic here

that's new, sadly not true, otherwise the bugreport
long before RHEL7-Beta would have prevented to make
it in Fedora 20 GA and stay there

first reported more than 3 months ago
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1023788



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
___
systemd-devel mailing list
systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel


Re: [systemd-devel] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1047614

2014-02-12 Thread David Timothy Strauss
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Tomasz Torcz to...@pipebreaker.pl wrote:
 That's some downstream distro bug.  And this is Fedora mailinglist.
 RHEL issues are offtopic here.

This is not a Fedora mailing list at all.
___
systemd-devel mailing list
systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel


Re: [systemd-devel] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1047614

2014-02-12 Thread Tomasz Torcz
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 12:45:50PM -0800, David Timothy Strauss wrote:
 On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Tomasz Torcz to...@pipebreaker.pl wrote:
  That's some downstream distro bug.  And this is Fedora mailinglist.
  RHEL issues are offtopic here.
 
 This is not a Fedora mailing list at all.

  Ouch.  I'm sorry.  I thought I was still reading fedora-devel.
My apologies to Harald and other readers of systemd-devel.

-- 
Tomasz Torcz God, root, what's the difference?
xmpp: zdzich...@chrome.pl God is more forgiving.



pgp8_mNKZFinb.pgp
Description: PGP signature
___
systemd-devel mailing list
systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel


Re: [systemd-devel] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1047614

2014-02-12 Thread Jóhann B. Guðmundsson


On 02/12/2014 07:37 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:

these are all regressions from F19 to F20
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1023820
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1010572
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1057811
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1057618
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1023788

sometimes it feels like systemd-upstrearm has a release-and-forget-strategy
and don't care about the downstream distributions and issues there nor
how bad the impact of them for how long is


I'm not so sure you are aware of this but the major part of systemd 
maintenance in Fedora is and has been handled by Zbyszek for the past 
year which is doing that on his own free time and before him it was 
Michal who is a Red Hat employee but working on completely different 
thing then systemd and he was also doing systemd downstream distribution 
maintenance on his own free time.


Both of them have been doing good job of maintaining systemd in the 
distribution and been extremely conservative in their maintainership so 
I suggest you keep your tone down towards people contributing their own 
free time to the project.


With regards to those RHEL bugs I suggest you follow Red Hat's official 
procedure dealing with those and file a support case after all that's 
what you are paying them for.


Ranting on upstream mailinglist will get you nowhere regardless if that 
upstream is partially on Red Hat's payroll or not...


JBG
___
systemd-devel mailing list
systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel


Re: [systemd-devel] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1047614

2014-02-12 Thread Reindl Harald

Am 12.02.2014 22:41, schrieb Jóhann B. Guðmundsson:
 On 02/12/2014 07:37 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
 these are all regressions from F19 to F20
 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1023820
 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1010572
 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1057811
 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1057618
 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1023788

 sometimes it feels like systemd-upstrearm has a release-and-forget-strategy
 and don't care about the downstream distributions and issues there nor
 how bad the impact of them for how long is
 
 I'm not so sure you are aware of this but the major part of systemd 
 maintenance in 
 Fedora is and has been handled by Zbyszek for the past year which is doing 
 that on 
 his own free time and before him it was Michal who is a Red Hat employee but 
 working 
 on completely different thing then systemd and he was also doing systemd 
 downstream
 distribution maintenance on his own free time.

i am aware

the major point of my critism is systemd-upstream's release-and-forget
with no point releases at all and the state of systemd in F20 makes that
not looking like a working strategy overstraining downstream maintainers

that may work for a browser but not for a core-component of a distruibution
or only in case of luck and not hitted by bugs as we have them now

 Both of them have been doing good job of maintaining systemd in the 
 distribution 
 and been extremely conservative in their maintainership 

extremely conservative would have been keep Fedora 20 on systemd-204
which has none of that problems - systemd-208 obviously has *not*
release quality

extremely conservative with a stable release: fine
extremely conservative with a broken release: not fine, it needs fixes, timly

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1023788
reported:   2013-10-27
GA release: 2013-12-17
current:2014-02-12

 so I suggest you keep your tone down towards people contributing their 
 own free time to the project.

my tone is ok, if someone can't stand critism that's a different problem layer

i am contributing *my own free time* with testing and bugreports, the last
systemd build for F20 was tested, rolled back and commented with feedback
minutes after the build completed, so i deserve feedback in a timely manner
and not get ignored over months (and i am not the only one)

since you are the one fighting against RH on fedora-devel and claiming you are
Fedora QA more than once - where where you in case of the bugs above? how did
they pass QA if any random tester is facing two of them within minutes?

 With regards to those RHEL bugs I suggest you follow Red Hat's official 
 procedure dealing with those

RHEL bugs? maybe read them before make comments and get rid of your hate
against Redhat could help, the Fedora bugzilla is below redhat.com and they
are all *Fedora* bugs and *one* of them made it to RHEL-Beta *too*



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
___
systemd-devel mailing list
systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel


Re: [systemd-devel] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1047614

2014-02-12 Thread Greg KH
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 11:12:07PM +0100, Reindl Harald wrote:
 
 the major point of my critism is systemd-upstream's release-and-forget
 with no point releases at all and the state of systemd in F20 makes that
 not looking like a working strategy overstraining downstream maintainers
 
 that may work for a browser but not for a core-component of a distruibution
 or only in case of luck and not hitted by bugs as we have them now

I guess the Linux kernel is not a core-component of a distro then, by
your definition :)

My distro doesn't have this issue, if you have a problem with the distro
you are currently using, I suggest talking with them about this, or
change to a different one.  No one is forcing you to use Fedora...

good luck,

greg k-h
___
systemd-devel mailing list
systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel