Re: t-and-f: UST&F facing ban over drug testing
In a message dated 9/30/00 9:59:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << drugs-positives still unresolved. Craig Masback, their chief executive, has declared none of the 10 are competing in Sydney, >> What does this have to do with anything/? If you test positive, you should be punished? Correct? Schiefer
t-and-f: pacemakers
>It's time there was another debate on the use of pacemakers on the circuit. Clearly they've been there for too long to be outlawed completely, but perhaps we could insist that they finish the race, or something. What's distressing about pacemakers to me is not so much that they turn races into time trials, but that they are in effect part of a race-fixing scheme. They are generally hired by the meet promoters to bring the field through certain distances in a certain time, usually to suit the desire of one athlete in the field (i.e. El G, or before him Morceli, et. al.), whom the promoter presumably wants to win and set a record. In cycling you may have "domestiques," but they're employed by the team, not the race organizer, and the fundamental goal in what is essentially a team sport is to get your team's star over the line first. On the GP circuit, if El G runs for some team and that team wants to hire some guy to pace the race to his advantage, fine. But IMHO the promoter shouldn't be aiding the effort of any particular competitor. In major championships, there's really no way to prevent rabbiting if a runner can be induced to sacrifice for a countryman, but at least it's not being organized by the IOC or IAAF (I hope). Marko Velikonja __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/
t-and-f: more on drug testing
It certainly seems a good idea to hand over drug testing to some kind of independent body. There will always be an appearance of conflict of interest in USATF, the IAAF or the IOC having a hand in drug testing. Most of the speculation about suppressed tests, after all, centers around the IOC not wanting to lose money through the scandal of drug positives. However, to give credit where it's due, Andrew Jennings recent book "The Great Olympic Swindle" points out essentially the following: The World Anti-Doping Agency is basically an IOC subsidiary, chaired by IOC Vice President (and presidential aspirant) Dick Pound, who also negotiates the IOC's TV and other commercial contracts. So the Big Question is whether this is really an independent and disinterested body unconcerned about the commercial implications of positive tests of high-profile competitors. It would seem that the IOC or the major federations would need to band together to engage an independent entity, say a Big 5 accounting firm, to run drug testing, with funding from some dedicated source that would insulate it from business pressures. Wake me up when it happens... Marko Velikonja __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/
Re: t-and-f: Johnson graceful to the last
--- Eamonn Condon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Electronic Telegraph > Sunday 1 October 2000 > James Mossop > > "I will miss it but right now the risk is far greater than the reward. > Nobody has been near me for 10 years but I do not want you to be writing > 'Michael's lost it' or 'Michael's finished' because I don't want to read > those things about myself. That's a surprisingly honest assessment. > Johnson is truly one of the track's superstars with his upright running > style and seemingly effortless flow. He did the 200m and 400m double in > Atlanta after missing Barcelona in 1992 with food poisoning. It just keeps getting better. Now he wasn't even there! No wonder he's never failed to win gold... Is part of his blossoming "journalism" career an agreement that other journalists will only write nice things about him? Dan = http://AbleDesign.com - AbleDesign, Web Design that Can! http://Run-Down.com - 8,500 Running Links, Free Contests... @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] <|\/ <^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ [EMAIL PROTECTED] (lifetime forwarding address) / / (503)370-9969 phone/fax __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/
t-and-f: Khannouchi Live
We are live from the Syracuse Festival of Races where Khannouchi, Todd Williams, Paul Pilkington and John Tuttle are assaulting the US road open and masters record in 5K. http://TrackMeets.com DR KAMAL JABBOUR - Engineer, Educator, Runner, WriterO o 2-222 Center for Science and Technology /|\/ <|\ Syracuse University, Syracuse NY 13244-4100 | | Phone 315-443-3000, Fax 315-443-2583 __/ \ \/ \ http://running.syr.edu/jabbour.html\ \
t-and-f: OSU Cowboy Jamboree, ACU men over Arkansas
Individual results were not available on OSU's website. MEN Teams: 1, Abilene Christian, 40; 2, Arkansas, 50; 3, Oklahoma State, 73; 4, Texas, 170; 5, Kansas, 202; 6, Missouri Southern, 231; 7, Baylor, 231; 8, Texas Tech, 277; 9, Houston, 296; 10, SW Missouri State, 303; 11, Wichita State, 309; 12, UT-Arlington, 314; 13, TCU, 322 WOMEN Teams: 1, TCU, 61; 2, Oklahoma State, 89; 3, Texas Tech, 104; 4, Baylor, 117; 5, UT-Arlington, 163; 6, Houston, 187; 7, Kansas, 192; 8, SW Missouri State, 195; 8, Sam Houston State, 231; 10, Wichita State, 238; 11, Tulsa, 253; 12, Oral Roberts, 295; 13, Oklahoma, 315 Phil Murray M-F Athletic Co., Inc. "Everything Track & Field" 1-800-561-4503 www.texastrack.com winmail.dat
Re: t-and-f: Korzeniowski walks into Olympic history
> The reason that electronic judging is not used is that they have not yet > come close to a satisfactory device. As for cheating I would say that the > majority of the walkers were NOT cheating ie( knowingly breaking the rules Former British chief coach Frank Dick had a good idea. He reckoned a light bulb should be attached to the walkers' heads. If contact was not maintained it would light up, setting off a small explosive charge ju8st big enough to blow their heads off. Sounds right to me. Randall Northam
Re: t-and-f: A variety of subjects - just catching up...
Dan wrote: > --- Alan Shank <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > W 100H semis & final What happened to Devers? One said she just stopped, > > another said she pulled up lame. > > Surprisingly little talk about this. Certainly the least apparent injury > I can recall seeing. Aren't the Olympics the "once in a lifetime, only > comes every four years, only time in the public eye, lay it all on the > line" event that people push to the edge of injury and sometimes beyond in > an attempt to reach their dreams? At least, that's what I thought it was > before this week. > I totally agree with this statement .. Earlier this summer there was discussion about the Olympics vs. the World Championships and which is more important to an athletes career and place in history .. And this group said that the Olympics are IT .. The Ultimate stage .. Then end all of all competitions .. World Championships don't matter it was said .. You have to win at the Olympics .. Then the Olympics got here and the athletes said ... "My muscle aches I don't think I will run - not even try" .. "I'm not fit enough to win gold so I guess I just won't enter" ... "My room isn't safe I think I will leave the country" ... "I have a nagging injury, maybe I'll just have surgery now and think about competing later" .. And on and on and on ... Never before have I seen so many high level competitors not even try .. And it was ironic that after I made my post on will to win that NBC showed a clip of JJK that night ... Leg wrapped .. Grimace on face .. Gutting it out .. Giving it everything she had .. Hurt .. In pain .. Because is was the OLYMPICS !!! The BIG one .. The one you've lived for ... Sore feet, tender muscles, missed training .. None of that is supposed to matter .. I remember John Smith leg wrapped up, out there trying .. I remember Hasely Crawford leg wrapped up, out there trying ... I watched Bert Cameron pull up in the middle of a 400 semi, come to an almost complete stop, then start running again, catch the field and run 45.05 and qualify for the final !!! Running with a torn muscle because THIS was the Olympics .. In Sydney all I heard was so and so isn't ready .. So and so isn't fit .. So and so has an ache or a pain .. I won't name names because I don't to be accused of attacking anyone .. But we all know who they were ... All I know is that this Olympics seemed much less like the Olympics than ever before .. And that we may have to begin to look at them in a different light .. And maybe, just maybe, they aren't the end all any more .. At least that seems to be what the ATHLETES are now saying .. Conway Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: t-and-f: pacemakers
--- Marko Velikonja <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > What's distressing about pacemakers to me is not so much that they turn > races into time trials, but that they are in effect part of a > race-fixing scheme. They are generally hired by the meet promoters to > bring the field through certain distances in a certain time, usually to > suit the desire of one athlete in the field (i.e. El G, or before him > Morceli, et. al.), whom the promoter presumably wants to win and set a > record. While it may not be clean head to head competition, I see nothing wrong with it. It may not even be an advantage to the star being paced. Consider that the star runner is probably the class of the field and would be leading the race if things like wind and mental aspects could be factored out of the equation. The rest of the field gets to be paced by the star, so that person is actually working harder. By adding a rabbit, the only person who has to work harder than the rest of the field has no intention of finishing, thus it's pretty much even for everyone else. After all, there's no provision I'm aware of saying only the star can follow the rabbit. Are 1:45+, 8:20+, 13:30+ with tactics that Ato Boldon might describe as "jog 25 laps then run a 200" any more interesting? I certainly think not. Dan = http://AbleDesign.com - AbleDesign, Web Design that Can! http://Run-Down.com - 8,500 Running Links, Free Contests... @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] <|\/ <^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ [EMAIL PROTECTED] (lifetime forwarding address) / / (503)370-9969 phone/fax __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/
RE: t-and-f: pacemakers
Cold, windy, conditions? You lead the damn race, then. malmo!TM Another self-anointed "award-winning" pundit for the Sydney2000TM Olympics > > Are 1:45+, 8:20+, 13:30+ with tactics that Ato Boldon might describe as > "jog 25 laps then run a 200" any more interesting? I certainly think not. > > Dan > > = > http://AbleDesign.com - AbleDesign, Web Design that Can! > http://Run-Down.com - 8,500 Running Links, Free Contests... > > @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > <|\/ <^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) > _/ \ \/\ [EMAIL PROTECTED] (lifetime forwarding address) >/ / (503)370-9969 phone/fax > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! > http://photos.yahoo.com/ >
RE: t-and-f: pacemakers
--- malmo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Cold, windy, conditions? You lead the damn race, then. > > > Are 1:45+, 8:20+, 13:30+ with tactics that Ato Boldon might describe > > as "jog 25 laps then run a 200" any more interesting? I certainly > > think not. Ok, let's see then. Distance runners are wimps because they complain about championship meets being held in such hot weather. The Olympics are finally held in temperatures to their liking, and now it's too cold and windy. What gives? All it takes is a couple people working together and sharing the lead, and suddenly the wind isn't such a big factor. There were certainly a couple of African countries well represented in each distance race. Instead, I see a bunch of non-medallists running slow times questioning why they waited so long to kick. I'd rather see them run hard from the start. Of course, the drug cynics did predict slow times in the distance events, although it wasn't true across the board. Dan = http://AbleDesign.com - AbleDesign, Web Design that Can! http://Run-Down.com - 8,500 Running Links, Free Contests... @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] <|\/ <^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ [EMAIL PROTECTED] (lifetime forwarding address) / / (503)370-9969 phone/fax __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/
t-and-f: Re: Dan Kaplan's: A variety of subjects - just catching up...
Dan, We obviously have different opinions, and see things differently, but it is very easy to take small snippets of what someone has said and pick it apart, versus looking at the entire statement. I am guessing that we will not come to agreement on these topics, but feel the need to further clarify my statements based on your rebuttal. I wrote: >> Huffins just ran the fastest 1500M of his life...a PR by 13 >> seconds. How many athletes do you know that have PRed by 13 seconds in >> the 1500M? Albeit, his previous PR was slow, Dan wrote: >I think you just answered your own question. My last two 1500m pr's were >by 12 and 9 seconds, both season openers. However, I hardly consider them >worth bragging about. Yes, but in the Olympics...how many people have PR'd by 13 seconds in the 1500? My original email was in response people saying that Huffins doesn't have the will to win, enough arrogance, and that he has choke artist tendencies. What I was addressing here was the will to win not "bragging" rights. I never said he should be able to brag about a 4:38 1500. But a 13 second PR in the 1500, which helped to win him the Olympic Bronze, when normally he would have run around a 5:00 1500 and gotten 4th, is something to be very proud of. I believe that it also shows that he has the will to win. I wrote: >> I don't care who you are...you cant make those marks in an >> Olympic competition without the "will" to train and win. Dan Wrote: >Why do the will to train and the will to win have to be the same? I see >no connection between the two. Well, maybe for non-Olympic athletes they can be different, but do you really believe that the athletes in the Olympic Games don't have the will to train and win? I don't believe you can win an Olympic medal in the Decathlon without training. In this day and age, I don't believe that you can make an Olympic Team in the Decathlon without training. Therefore, Huffins had the will to train. Now, about the will to win...I personally believe that anyone that dedicates their life to something and makes the sacrifices necessary to be one of the best in the world at what you do, proves that you have the will to win. Training day in and day out, and dedicating yourself to your disciplines. Why would anyone choose the life of an athlete, dedicate yourself to it, and be one of the best in the world, but not have the will to win? I don't understand this concept. If you don't have the will to win, then do something else with your life. I wrote: >> About Chris's lack of arrogance...again you don't even know him, and >> cant make a judgment based on TV interviews. Actually one of Chris's >> early downfalls was his arrogance. He used believe that he could beat >> you with 9 events, and therefore used to run a terrible 1500M. Dan Wrote: >And that's not a lack of competitive fire? Sounds like semantics to me. >I could beat you, I just don't want to work hard enough to do it... Not semantics...but life and human beliefs. Olympic athletes are not perfect, they are human beings and are subject to the same weaknesses as everyone else. "Competitive fire" has nothing to do with your beliefs. Huffins used to truly believe that he didn't have the body type (he thought that he was all fast twitch muscles) to run the 1500. Somewhere along the line someone convinced him, or he convinced himself that being as fast as he was made it impossible for him to run a decent 1500M. If you do not believe you can do something...then you wont. Now, when you don't believe that you can run a 1500M, would you spend a lot of time training for it? No, you would concentrate on the other 9 events, and that is what he did, because he believed it would be good enough. This has nothing to do with "competitive fire". The saving grace for Huffins, and this is why I hope that he continues to compete, is that he has done a great job at working on the other 9 events. And I hope that he has proved to himself that 100M and the 1500M are not mutually exclusive events. He can now make a big difference in his score by maintaining (with normal SP and JT marks) his other 9 events, and focusing on his 1500M. He can gain over 50 points by running a 4:30. I wrote: >> What is a "choke artist"? Is it someone that lets the pressure of big >> meets get to them, and therefore they mess up? If that is the case then >> that is not Chris Huffins. Dan Wrote: >I may have missed a post, but I certainly said nothing about him being a >choke artist, and I don't recall anyone else doing so. I think you're >reading far too much into the criticisms. Again, let me say that I am in >no way questioning Huffins' ability, only his desire to perform his >absolute best. That is far from calling him a choker. My original email was addressed to several emails concerning Huffins. It was not you that called Huffins a "choke artist". The following quote came from t-and-f-digest V1 #3241 (digest version dated 9/29): Larry wrote: >
t-and-f: Times at the 4X400m women
Note how over-optimistic (as I had commented) the 3:17-3:18 minute forecasts were for the women's long relay. I wrote, given the sorry shape of current 400m running, that a time below 3:20 was not necessary for the victory and not likely to be achieved by any team. In the end, the mysterious disappearance of the Russian team's last year's World champs ace, Nazarova, from the finals (injury?) meant that - with indoor standout Poseplova caught and sent home for drug abuse- they fielded a very poor starting runner. That did away, early in the race, with any semblance of battle for gold, since the Jamaicans did not have the depth to risk the US victory. If you look up the lap times, Privalova's and Graham's (49.6) were only slightly slower than Jones, who needed to waste no extra distance on overtaking, Kotlyarova (49.8) was not much slower and for both teams (Russia and Jamaica) a decent fourth runner would have force Marion Jones to come from behind in the third leg rather than push forward. On the other hand, there is a case to think she might have run a little harder although she had seemed to give it all she had. With 3:22 winning, it appears as if that exciting event is sliding ever backwards in terms of quality, even though not in terms of viewer satisfaction. At least, Marion was appropriately rewarded, placing her on at least equal footing with Blankers Kohn in London 1948. I would even go to say that Jones achieved a much more remarkable feat. The reason I think Jones' achievement here more meaningful is that Fanny Blankers-Kohn collected 4 gold medals against incomparably poorer opposition than Marion in an Olympic edition, where much of the cream of women's athletics simply were not there. No Russians or [obviously, just after the World War) Germans participated. Earlier in 1946, a Russian sprinter (Scechenova, if I am not mistaken) had won both sprint events in the first post-war European championships. In fact, other than Marjorie Gardner-Dyson in the 80 M hurdles, the opposition to Fanny in 1948 was poor and the quality of sprinting was so low, that a mediocre time, even by that era's standards, of 47.5 seconds for the short relay, sufficed for victory, in a race with no Russian or German teams. (I have always been more impressed with Irena Szewinska's performance in Tokyo 1964 over 200m, LJ and the relay WR). UG
Re: t-and-f: A variety of subjects - just catching up...
I was at the '84 Olympics, and still think Cameron's run was one of the gutsiest ever. He pulled right in front of us at about 100m into the race, leapt about 6 foot into the air, came to a dead stop, then blasted off again. Tony Craddock At 07:55 AM 10/1/00 -0700, you wrote: Dan wrote: > --- Alan Shank <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > W 100H semis & final What happened to Devers? One said she just stopped, > > another said she pulled up lame. > > Surprisingly little talk about this. Certainly the least apparent injury > I can recall seeing. Aren't the Olympics the "once in a lifetime, only > comes every four years, only time in the public eye, lay it all on the > line" event that people push to the edge of injury and sometimes beyond in > an attempt to reach their dreams? At least, that's what I thought it was > before this week. > I totally agree with this statement .. Earlier this summer there was discussion about the Olympics vs. the World Championships and which is more important to an athletes career and place in history .. And this group said that the Olympics are IT .. The Ultimate stage .. Then end all of all competitions .. World Championships don't matter it was said .. You have to win at the Olympics .. Then the Olympics got here and the athletes said ... "My muscle aches I don't think I will run - not even try" .. "I'm not fit enough to win gold so I guess I just won't enter" ... "My room isn't safe I think I will leave the country" ... "I have a nagging injury, maybe I'll just have surgery now and think about competing later" .. And on and on and on ... Never before have I seen so many high level competitors not even try .. And it was ironic that after I made my post on will to win that NBC showed a clip of JJK that night ... Leg wrapped .. Grimace on face .. Gutting it out .. Giving it everything she had .. Hurt .. In pain .. Because is was the OLYMPICS !!! The BIG one .. The one you've lived for ... Sore feet, tender muscles, missed training .. None of that is supposed to matter .. I remember John Smith leg wrapped up, out there trying .. I remember Hasely Crawford leg wrapped up, out there trying ... I watched Bert Cameron pull up in the middle of a 400 semi, come to an almost complete stop, then start running again, catch the field and run 45.05 and qualify for the final !!! Running with a torn muscle because THIS was the Olympics .. In Sydney all I heard was so and so isn't ready .. So and so isn't fit .. So and so has an ache or a pain .. I won't name names because I don't to be accused of attacking anyone .. But we all know who they were ... All I know is that this Olympics seemed much less like the Olympics than ever before .. And that we may have to begin to look at them in a different light .. And maybe, just maybe, they aren't the end all any more .. At least that seems to be what the ATHLETES are now saying .. Conway Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: t-and-f: pacemakers Why didn't they think of it?
> Ok, let's see then. Distance runners are wimps because they complain > about championship meets being held in such hot weather. The Olympics are > finally held in temperatures to their liking, and now it's too cold and > windy. What gives? Only wimpy distance runners complain about the weather -- but none of those wimps were in the Olympic finals, are they? > > All it takes is a couple people working together and sharing the lead, and > suddenly the wind isn't such a big factor. There were certainly a couple > of African countries well represented in each distance race. Instead, I > see a bunch of non-medallists running slow times questioning why they > waited so long to kick. I'd rather see them run hard from the start. Your "plan" to mitigate the effects of wind has gone unnoticed by the runners. All of their years of racing experience and they've never thought of it? Do you suppose there might be a reason? malmo!TM Another self-anointed "award-winning" pundit for the Sydney2000TM Olympics
RE: t-and-f: pacemakers Why didn't they think of it?
--- malmo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Only wimpy distance runners complain about the weather -- but > none of those wimps were in the Olympic finals, are they? I will defer to you on that one, since you mentioned the weather as the reason for the slow times. > Your "plan" to mitigate the effects of wind has gone unnoticed by the > runners. All of their years of racing experience and they've never > thought of it? Do you suppose there might be a reason? Umm, because they like running their slowest time of the year, missing out on a medal, and having an excuse to fall back on? Only one person in the field can have the fastest kick, yet few people seem to realize this. Dan = http://AbleDesign.com - AbleDesign, Web Design that Can! http://Run-Down.com - 8,500 Running Links, Free Contests... @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] <|\/ <^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ [EMAIL PROTECTED] (lifetime forwarding address) / / (503)370-9969 phone/fax __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/
RE: t-and-f: pacemakers Why didn't they think of it?
It's the psychological profile of all world-class runners to think they can win with the kick. malmo!TM Another self-anointed "award-winning" pundit for the Sydney2000TM Olympics > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Dan Kaplan > Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 10:17 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: t-and-f: pacemakers Why didn't they think of it? > > > --- malmo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Only wimpy distance runners complain about the weather -- but > > none of those wimps were in the Olympic finals, are they? > > I will defer to you on that one, since you mentioned the weather as the > reason for the slow times. > > > Your "plan" to mitigate the effects of wind has gone unnoticed by the > > runners. All of their years of racing experience and they've never > > thought of it? Do you suppose there might be a reason? > > Umm, because they like running their slowest time of the year, missing out > on a medal, and having an excuse to fall back on? Only one person in the > field can have the fastest kick, yet few people seem to realize this. > > Dan > > = > http://AbleDesign.com - AbleDesign, Web Design that Can! > http://Run-Down.com - 8,500 Running Links, Free Contests... > > @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > <|\/ <^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) > _/ \ \/\ [EMAIL PROTECTED] (lifetime forwarding address) >/ / (503)370-9969 phone/fax > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! > http://photos.yahoo.com/ >
t-and-f: Result request etc.
Netters: I would appreciate it if there is anyone on the list who can direct me to a site where I might find an in-depth result of today's half-marathon at Windsor Castle. On another matter, did anyone nitce the bad mistake made in the exchange to Marion Jones in the 4 x 400. It's lucky the race wasn't close. Instead of grabbing that stick as soon as possible and taking off, Marion was waving the incoming runner on, losing precious tenths of a second (or more) in the process. Putting Marion on the 3rd leg was a brilliant idea, but it would have been better had she been told to stand at the back errand of the zone and get that stick pronto. Had she done so, by the time her rivals got their sticks and looked up, she would have been far gone. Ed Grant
t-and-f: Sydney notes...
Dear Listers, Now that The Games have concluded, just thought I'd share a few observations: 1- Marion should've gotten five. Marion displays just a bit of immaturity when dealing with questions about the LJ. I don't think it would be disloyal to get some extra help from people who have tremendous resumes', such as a Carl Lewis or a JJK...or Bob Kersee and Tom Tellez. She also always mentions that Trevor Graham was there for her when no one was there. I don't think MJ gave anyone a chance to know she was back. Not saying that Graham is not doing a tremendous job, I'm saying be fair to everyone else. The 4x100 was still a reality until it got to the 2nd exchange. Perry looked a little worried. MJ didn't take her out, and that was it. 2- The USA's 4x100 men's team was a "little" overexuberant, but I think we should be more fair. There was alot of questionable behavior at The Games, but to condemn the 4x100 to such an extent is unreal. 3- Is it me, or does Michael Johnson make running sound like the worst thing in the world? I know the training and competing is tough, but at least show a little remorse like you're going to miss track & field. 4- Marion Jones, Latasha Colander-Richardson, and Monique Henagan are all North Carolina alum. Were they all on the team at the same time? 5- John Drummond, Tim Montgomery, Brian Lewis, and MG would've made it a 3/4 Blinn JC squad... 6- Men Oly relay coaches get a B-, women's coaches get a D... Larry A. Morgan
t-and-f: WARNING- MARATHON RESULTS DISCUSSED
PAGE DOWN Pace for winner: 15:36, 31:23 (15:47), 46:16 (14:53), 1:01:40 (15:24), 1:16:58 (15:18), 1:32:48 (15:50), 1:48:12 (15:24), 2:03:30 (15:18) 6:41 finish, 3:02.6 kilo pace, 4:54 mile pace halves in 1:05:02 1:05:09 Talk about even pacing! Not a single segment over 16:00. Ethiopia 1, 3, 22 = 26 Portugal 11, 18, 50 = 79 Spain 6, 42, 53 = 101 Australia 10, 28, 66 = 104 PRK 29, 30. 59 = 118 Kenya 2, dnf, dnf = ? Were the two Kenyans who didn't finish (Lagat and Cheruiyot) added at the expense of the guys who were dumped? I think the silver medalist was one of those added. I can't remember whether they replaced the whole team or just two. Fiz 6th 2:13:06 Moneghetti 10th 2:14:50 Pinto (TFN 2) 11th 2:15:17 Domingos Castro 18th 2:16:52 Thugwane (defender) 20th 2:16:59 Lee (TFN favorite) 24th 2:17:57 Swartbooi (medalist sometime?) 48th 2:22:55 Anton (TFN 4) 53rd 2:24:04 Sato (TFN 5) 41st 2:20:52 Juzgado (TFN 7) 42nd 2:21:18 Inubushi (TFN 8) dnf DeHaven US 69th 2:30:46 US Splits from the 4X4, from the in-screen graphics Alvin 45.03 Pettigrew 43.55 Calvin 43.55 MJ 44.22 Once again, Pettigrew runs a great leg, which he's done many times since getting nailed by Chris Akabusi in the '91 final. He didn't even get asked a question by Jim Grey, who probably doesn't even know how long Pettigrew has been at or near the top in this event, that he was the World Champion 9 years ago, etc. etc. Jearl 51.33 Hennagan 51.04 MJ 49.57 Colander-Richardson 50.68 The story in the Bee, from Amy Shipley of the Washington Post, headlined: "Jones runs exceptional relay leg in women's 4 X 400" Later, she wrote: "...a mind-blowing relay leg by Jones..." 49.6 is not exactly "mind-blowing." After all, FloJo ran about 48.1 in Seoul. Does anybody know what kind of splits some of the other anchors ran? Like Cathy Freeman? None of the teams rans very fast, so maybe it was windy. Marion did run a fine tactical race, however, blowing everyone away down the stretch to give Latasha an insurmountable lead. Cheers, Alan Shank
t-and-f: (no subject)
My husband and I have been to every summer Olympics since 1976 and every outdoor world championships. However, we decided not to go to Sydney. So we asked all of our friends not to tell us any results, listened only to a classical music radio station, watched only tv we knew would not have results, and read the newspaper a day late. There was only one breach, a casual aquaintance saw my husband and blurted out the result of the men's 1500 before Gary could say a word. We watched NBC, were surprised by how much track they actually showed, and had a great time. Jules Trigueiro Director of Fun, Prefontaine Classic
t-and-f: Bernard Williams - Call your Agent
As many of you know, sprinting is a hind-brain activity. The trick is when not sprinting to switch back to the cognitive functions...if they exist. Bernard, thanks for the show, but the act still needs more work before you can put it on Broadway. Tony Craddock PS For those of you that missed it, in the post-race NBC trackside interview of the victorious Men's 4x100M team, Bernard Williams kept pulling a series of faces into the camera which seemed to indicate that he was either mentally deranged or on acid.
t-and-f: 4 by 400m legs by others.
According to the IAAF official site: Cathy freeman 49.4 Irina Privalova 49.6 Lorraine Graham 49.6 Olga Kotlyarova 49.8 seconds. Although some do not realize it, the major factor behind the clear win of the US 4x400m foursome was the absence of Russia's no. 3 and 4 strings, Nazarova and indoor find Pospyelova. The latter simply failed a drug test, but Nazarova, anchor and key in the Russian World Championships victory last year, who had made the semi finals, was mysteriously week in that race and was not on the team (injured? reasons not disclosed). Instead , their first runner ran a disastrous leg - the real reason why, when Marion Jones received the baton she could blow away (the third leg Russian, as seen above, was only 0.2-0.4 slower than Marion, and was not "blown away" - but she had started with a huge handicap. On the last lap Privalova and Graham closed some 10 yards on Colander. The IAAF site has Marion at 49.4 seconds. UG _ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Alan Shank Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 1:13 PM To: Track Posts Subject: t-and-f: WARNING- MARATHON RESULTS DISCUSSED PAGE DOWN Pace for winner: 15:36, 31:23 (15:47), 46:16 (14:53), 1:01:40 (15:24), 1:16:58 (15:18), 1:32:48 (15:50), 1:48:12 (15:24), 2:03:30 (15:18) 6:41 finish, 3:02.6 kilo pace, 4:54 mile pace halves in 1:05:02 1:05:09 Talk about even pacing! Not a single segment over 16:00. Ethiopia 1, 3, 22 = 26 Portugal 11, 18, 50 = 79 Spain 6, 42, 53 = 101 Australia 10, 28, 66 = 104 PRK 29, 30. 59 = 118 Kenya 2, dnf, dnf = ? Were the two Kenyans who didn't finish (Lagat and Cheruiyot) added at the expense of the guys who were dumped? I think the silver medalist was one of those added. I can't remember whether they replaced the whole team or just two. Fiz 6th 2:13:06 Moneghetti 10th 2:14:50 Pinto (TFN 2) 11th 2:15:17 Domingos Castro 18th 2:16:52 Thugwane (defender) 20th 2:16:59 Lee (TFN favorite) 24th 2:17:57 Swartbooi (medalist sometime?) 48th 2:22:55 Anton (TFN 4) 53rd 2:24:04 Sato (TFN 5) 41st 2:20:52 Juzgado (TFN 7) 42nd 2:21:18 Inubushi (TFN 8) dnf DeHaven US 69th 2:30:46 US Splits from the 4X4, from the in-screen graphics Alvin 45.03 Pettigrew 43.55 Calvin 43.55 MJ 44.22 Once again, Pettigrew runs a great leg, which he's done many times since getting nailed by Chris Akabusi in the '91 final. He didn't even get asked a question by Jim Grey, who probably doesn't even know how long Pettigrew has been at or near the top in this event, that he was the World Champion 9 years ago, etc. etc. Jearl 51.33 Hennagan 51.04 MJ 49.57 Colander-Richardson 50.68 The story in the Bee, from Amy Shipley of the Washington Post, headlined: "Jones runs exceptional relay leg in women's 4 X 400" Later, she wrote: "...a mind-blowing relay leg by Jones..." 49.6 is not exactly "mind-blowing." After all, FloJo ran about 48.1 in Seoul. Does anybody know what kind of splits some of the other anchors ran? Like Cathy Freeman? None of the teams rans very fast, so maybe it was windy. Marion did run a fine tactical race, however, blowing everyone away down the stretch to give Latasha an insurmountable lead. Cheers, Alan Shank
Re: t-and-f: UST&F facing ban over drug testing
On Sun, 1 Oct 2000 02:46:07 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 9/30/00 9:59:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time, >[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > ><< drugs-positives still unresolved. Craig Masback, their chief executive, has > declared none of the 10 are competing in Sydney, >> > > >What does this have to do with anything/? If you test positive, you should be >punished? Correct? > > >Schiefer In the U.S. system "unresolved positives" don't exist as far as public release of any information. Neither do any cases which have been judged in favor of the athlete. Just revealing that an accusation had been lodged (an initial "A" sample positive is an accusation) has been ruled to be permanently damaging to the athlete's reputation. Masback didn't make that ruling. McCaffrey didn't make that ruling. But it has certainly been etched in stone. Nobody has yet identified an overriding reason why an athlete's reputation has to be damaged unnessarily. When the verdict comes down, THEN is the time to go public with it. So says the current legal environment. How's this for an analogy: People who are accused of a felony are always allowed to post bail and 'be on the street' while awaiting trial, UNLESS the likelihood that they are guilty is very strong, AND their presence 'on the street' is judged to be a severe threat to public safety. The power to make the decision on whether bail should be allowed or not is granted to a judge. Some other countries don't have any such thing as 'bail'. You sit your butt in jail no matter how long you have to wait for a trial, and no matter if it means you can't go to work and your wife and kids are starving. If it's not outright 'guilty until proven innocent' and 'burden of proof is on the accused', it certainly points in that direction. People who grew up in those countries tend to think that's the way it's always been, that's the way it SHOULD be, and that's the best way. At least, until THEY are the one sitting their butt in the jail cell, or it's THEIR spouse sitting in jail while you starve. Neither the USATF, the USOC, or the IAAF has been able up until this point to convince any United States judge that the need to keep an athlete out of track meet (i.e. suspend them from work without pay) while their case is 'pending' outweighs the need of that athlete to 'earn a living'- i.e. putting cheese and crackers on the table for the wife and kids. Furthermore, keeping them out would permanently damage their earnings power REGARDLESS of the outcome of the case. People like Merode and Lundquist resent U.S. case law. They think the need to keep a meet 'clean' in even the remotest sense, ESPECIALLY from a public relations perspective, outweighs the need of any specific individual athlete to earn a living. In their view, even if the athlete is later found innocent, and they've missed income from 15 consecutive meets, and their family is on the street begging, that's the price to pay for having the perception of squeeky cleanness. We have cultural, societal and political differences butting up against each other here. I doubt there is a solution in the next 100 years. We've got people who've been taught from birth that communism, or socialism are the path of the future, we've got representative democracies, we've got republics, we've got monarchs and Lords and Earls. And everybody thinks their model is the best model. Cultures need a couple of more centuries of assimilation to get to the point where we have pretty much common views of fairness and where to balance the scale between individual rights and "the common good". [the internet and other wide-open communications like this list will help] I suspect that almost any U.S. judge would be willing to listen to Merode or Lundquist present their case in an athletic doping 'right-to-work' trial. Of course Merode and Lundquist think it would be 'beneath them' to stand in front of U.S. judge and plead ANYTHING. That's part of the problem too. Still a lot of Class-conciousness in some parts of the world, along with resentment of the most successful countries. The simplistic notion of the statement by Lundquist yesterday that people like Masback and McCaffrey need to just 'solve it' shows just how ignorant he is about how complex these issues are. He thinks that some simple 'decree' could be issued and that would solve everything. Maybe that works in Belgium or Sweden, but not in countries with a check-and-balance form of government. It's evident that Lundquist should stay in the medical labs and let people experienced in international legal matters work it. He's out of his territory. P.S. LET them kick the U.S. out of the IAAF or IOC or whatever. Don't forget that American broadcast and American corporate sponsorship dollars get kicked out too. No more way for people like Pound and Lundquist to cool their heels in 5-star hotels, until they put it on their OWN charge card. And don't expect any more U.S. track scholarship money fo
t-and-f: Fwd: Esso Five-Star Award Scheme
I am forwarding this message from a runner in Germany. I assume he found my e-mail from the list archive. If someone has information, please forward it to Mr. Ettner at the address below. >Delivered-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >From: "Florian Ettner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: Esso Five-Star Award Scheme >Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 21:01:17 - >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 > >Dear Mr. Hutchison, >My name is Florian Ettner and I am a succesful junior distance >runner from Germany. >I am looking for the "Esso Five-Star Award Scheme", a table which >allows to compare track and field results by using a point system. >This scheme was developed by the UK Amateur Athletic Association and >sponsored by Esso. I found an excerpt of this table in the book >"Training Distance Runners" by David E. Martin and Peter N. Coe, but >I need the longer distances (5.000 , 10.000 metres, ...). >As the scheme is not available in Germany, I would be very grateful >to you if you informed where I can get it from. >Thank you very much for your efforts. > >Yours sincerely, >Florian Ettner
Re: t-and-f: pacemakers
The answer is to ban rabbits (pacemakers) who may also engage in boxing, elbowing, blocking, and pre-strategized surges to benefit their countrymen... and replace them with... the old light system used on the mid-70's pro track circuit. Set the lights to the exact world record pace- no surges or anything. Fair for everybody. And not really any different than painting a world record arc across a discus sector. Pay for it out of the billions that come from U.S. broadcasters and corporate sponsors. Oh, I forgot, Lundquist wants to kick the Americans out. Sorry Europeans, you'll have to pay for the lights yourself :-) RT
t-and-f: Before Marty Liquori writes off El Guerrouj
Before Marty Liquori writes off El Guerrouj in favor of Coe as the greatest 1500m runner ever, "...out of the top ten" he said, lets compare the tale of the tape: 3:26.00 Hicham El Guerrouj 16 times better than Coe's PR (3:29.77), 32 times better than Coe's 2nd best (3:31.95) It took the likes of no less than Noah Ngeny (6 times better than 3:29.77 and 16 times better than 3:31.95), drafting off El Guerrouj the whole way, to beat him just once. That's ONCE! Here is a comparison of how the Sydney finals field stacks up against Coe's PR and his 2nd best performance: 3:28.12 Noah Ngeny 6 times (3:29.77), 16 times (3:31.95) 3:28.51 Bernhard Lagat 1 time (3:29.77), 6 times (3:31.95) 3:32.05 Medhi Baala 3:31.71 Kevin Sullivan 0 time (3:29.77), 1 times (3:31.95) 3:31.48 Andres Diaz 0 time (3:29.77), 3 times (3:31.95) 3:31.86 Johm Mayock 0 time (3:29.77), 1 times (3:31.95) 3:31.51 Driss Maazouzi 0 time (3:29.77), 2 times (3:31.95) These guys have a whopping 61 performances better than Coe's second best performance! And you know what? NONE OF THEM ARE DONE YET! malmo!TM Another self-anointed "award-winning" pundit for the Sydney2000TM Olympics
Re: t-and-f: WARNING- MARATHON RESULTS DISCUSSED
>The story in the Bee, from Amy Shipley of the Washington Post, >headlined: >"Jones runs exceptional relay leg in women's 4 X 400" >Later, she wrote: "...a mind-blowing relay leg by Jones..." >49.6 is not exactly "mind-blowing." After all, FloJo ran about 48.1 in >Seoul. Does anybody know what kind of splits some of the other anchors >ran? Like Cathy Freeman? I heard that Marion and Cathy had the two fastest carries, both equal- 49.4 or 49.5. RT
Re: t-and-f: WARNING- MARATHON RESULTS DISCUSSED
"R.T." wrote: > I heard that Marion and Cathy had the two fastest carries, > both equal- 49.4 or 49.5. > You usually see a few sub-49 legs in these relays. Well, I guess not. I just check '99, and Breuer's 49.04 was the fastest. In '97, Breuer ran 48.69 and Jearl 49.19. I guess the really fast legs were pre-'90 and can be attributed to ... Cheers, Alan Shank
Re: t-and-f: Bernard Williams - Call your Agent
It was even worse when they got their Medals and on their victory lap. He was embarrassing to watch and a disgrace, as were all members of the 4x100m. Against the Olympic spirit and good sportsmanship. Disrespectfull to the national athem also. Maurice Greene apologized for their actions later to Costas. A suspension might be a suitable reply by USATF. >From: "A.J. Craddock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: "A.J. Craddock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: t-and-f: Bernard Williams - Call your Agent >Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 12:24:16 -0700 > >As many of you know, sprinting is a hind-brain activity. > >The trick is when not sprinting to switch back to the cognitive >functions...if they exist. > >Bernard, thanks for the show, but the act still needs more work before you >can put it on Broadway. > >Tony Craddock > >PS For those of you that missed it, in the post-race NBC trackside >interview of the victorious Men's 4x100M team, Bernard Williams kept >pulling a series of faces into the camera which seemed to indicate that he >was either mentally deranged or on acid. > _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com.
Re: t-and-f: Sydney notes...
>1- Marion should've gotten five. > >Marion displays just a bit of immaturity when dealing with questions about >the LJ. I don't think it would be disloyal to get some extra help from people >who have tremendous resumes', such as a Carl Lewis or a JJK...or Bob Kersee >and Tom Tellez. She also always mentions that Trevor Graham was there for her >when no one was there. I don't think MJ gave anyone a chance to know she was >back. Not saying that Graham is not doing a tremendous job, I'm saying be >fair to everyone else. A comment by MJ after the long relay is revealing- she said something to the effect that she will never train seriously for the 400m, such as to go after the WR, because she doesn't like the way her body feels after a 400 race. In other words (my own summation) she feels 'comfortable' after a 100m or 200m, but 'uncomfortable' after a 400m. No kidding! I know to this distance-running-centric list, her comment will sound like: a) laziness b) wimpy c) no heart I'm not sure what the answer is. But if she 'shy's away' from discomfort, might that tendancy reveal itself in practice as well as competition? The long jump requires a lot of hard technical work. It's not just a 'fun sprint session' (the HSI camp will probably flame me for that! :-). Is she willing to pay the price for serious long jump training? The answer might not be coaching- it might be inside Marion herself. Is she only willing to continue to rely on 99% raw talent instead of using that as a base to build on to explore uncharted territory? If so, then I would say YES, she's lazy. RT
t-and-f: U.S. men's 4x100 antics
In spite of the big deal that NBC made of it, the behaviour by the Americans was small potatoes. What they did would be a perfectly acceptable mode of exhuberation and celebration in almost any U.S. urban setting. Hey guys, the trouble is you're not IN a U.S. urban setting. Inexperienced athletes on an international 'stage' forget to think about it- you can't just NOT offend your peers, you've got to avoid offending MOST people! If you don't have a clue of where your culture fits in with other cultures, you're lost in the dark...if you don't care, you risk even worse alienation... P.S.- I'll bet that at least two of the four hadn't the tiniest clue (or cared) as to the identify of the person handing them their medals. (it was Henry Kissinger, arguably one of the biggest names of the latter half of the 20th century). It would pay them to slow down and listen to what's going on around them- but I guess that, like sage wisdom, it only comes with years of maturing... Michael Johnson was right to call it immaturity, but I'm not sure of his motivation for saying it... (possibility it could just be another stab at Greene) P.S.S.- want to know the best way to forget all about the 2000 4x100 antics? I nominate John Rocker for the 2004 U.S. Javelin team! (foreigners will probably have to ask who's John Rocker and how does he relate...) RT
Re: t-and-f: (no subject)
>My husband and I have been to every summer Olympics since 1976 and every >outdoor world championships. However, we decided not to go to Sydney. So we >asked all of our friends not to tell us any results, listened only to a >classical music radio station, watched only tv we knew would not have >results, and read the newspaper a day late. There was only one breach, a >casual aquaintance saw my husband and blurted out the result of the men's >1500 before Gary could say a word. We watched NBC, were surprised by how much >track they actually showed, and had a great time. >Jules Trigueiro >Director of Fun, Prefontaine Classic ^^^ WOW! Now that's a job I've aspired to my entire life, and never realized it. Director of Fun. Fantasticly intriguing possibilities. Do you think they offer a degree in it- BOF- Bachelor of Fun ? Or a Master of Fun ? Jules I envy you! ...maybe tomorrow I'll propose that my employer create a similar position, and I'll be glad to volunteer to fill it... I think this list needs a rotating annointed Director of Fun, too. Things have been glum enough with the "down" results in almost all events this year, the doping wars, and so on. Rotating Directors to serve 4-week stints. Director of Fun, yeh- that's the ticket. ...not making fun of Jules, just amazed at the novelty of the job title... RT
t-and-f: SHAME, SHAME, SHAME
SHAME, SHAME, SHAME Olympic Games, Sydney, Australia Shame on all the athletes that use illegal drugs. The ends do not justify the means. Shame on everyone who covers it up. Shame on the United States men's 4x100 relay team for their rude display after winning the gold medal. You may be fast, but you don't have any class. I plan to boycott all Kellogg's products for putting Maurice Greene on their cereal box. You just don't get it. Grow up. Keith Conning Vacaville, CA
t-and-f: Class clowns
mark whicker Class clowns COMMENTARY: After winning gold, the U.S. relay earns a medal for stupidity October 1, 2000 Orange County (CA) Register http://www.ocregister.com/sports/whicker.shtml Keith Conning Vacaville, CA
Re: t-and-f: UST&F facing ban over drug testing
RT wrote: RT you have made many valuable contributions to this list and I generally read your posts with pleasure, but your last message was out of line. I wholeheartedly agree that there is a lot wrong with the current anti-doping policies of various sport governing bodies. Despite that, Merode and Lundquist said what they had to say, and could scarcely be expected to say anything else. Certainly when you consider that the most vociferous calls for the heads of drug cheats have come from the US media, where non-US athletes do not even have to fail drugs tests in order to be openly branded as cheats (yes, I just finished reading an article from the Boston Globe online five minutes ago). This makes it harder for other countries to swallow when US athletes who test positive are percieved as being "protected" by the USATF. This has little to do with the barbaric systems of justice we foreigners are forced to live under; when our icons like Ben Johnson and Linford Christie are tested positive and are banned, crucified and vilified by the US media, we definitely feel cheated if we are robbed of the opportunity to do the same to a US athlete now and then. We are all keenly aware of the fact that professional athletes are dependent on the many lucrative track and field meets held in the US, and that without the massive stream of income generated by US TV contracts for these meets they would be starving in the gutters. For this the IAAF is no doubt duly thankful, and I am sure they would do nothing to hurt the immense popularity of track and field in the States. So I think you can rest assured that Merode and Lundquist did not mean for the athletes who tested positive to be deprived of their rights under US law. Don't hold it against them, will you? Cheers, Elliott Oti
Re: t-and-f: U.S. men's 4x100 antics
- Original Message - From: R.T. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Hey guys, the trouble is you're not IN a U.S. urban > setting. > > Inexperienced athletes on an international 'stage' > forget to think about it- > you can't just NOT offend your peers, you've got to > avoid offending MOST people! If you don't have a > clue of where your culture fits in with other cultures, > you're lost in the dark...if you don't care, you risk > even worse alienation... Speaking as a foreigner, I must say I enjoyed the antics of the US 4x100 team on the track. No one I know was in the least offended by it in any way. When Bernard Williams gave the Rock eyebrow in Berlin it was the talk of the club where I train the next day. (No-one knows who the Rock is there, and I must confess I do only because my father is an avid fanatic follower of the WWF and "The People's Elbow"). It definitely rates as "cool". Cheers, Elliott
Re: t-and-f: U.S. men's 4x100 antics
I would expect to have to watch high school athletes act the way they did, not international competetors representing their country. I was embarassed by their extremely unsportsman-like gloating and parading and felt very offended. What a bunch of asses! ESPECIALLY Bernard Williams. What a moron!? All speed and no brains... I feel like John Smith is a class act - not sure if other than Greene and Drummond are his athletes, but too bad he can't share a bit more than running technique and training with them... Scott - Original Message - From: R.T. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 1:38 PM Subject: t-and-f: U.S. men's 4x100 antics > In spite of the big deal that NBC made of it, the > behaviour by the Americans was small potatoes. > > What they did would be a perfectly acceptable mode > of exhuberation and celebration in almost any > U.S. urban setting. > > Hey guys, the trouble is you're not IN a U.S. urban > setting. > > Inexperienced athletes on an international 'stage' > forget to think about it- > you can't just NOT offend your peers, you've got to > avoid offending MOST people! If you don't have a > clue of where your culture fits in with other cultures, > you're lost in the dark...if you don't care, you risk > even worse alienation... > > P.S.- I'll bet that at least two of the four hadn't > the tiniest clue (or cared) as to the identify of > the person handing them their medals. > (it was Henry Kissinger, arguably one of the biggest > names of the latter half of the 20th century). > It would pay them to slow down and listen to what's > going on around them- > but I guess that, like sage wisdom, it only comes with > years of maturing... > Michael Johnson was right to call it immaturity, but > I'm not sure of his motivation for saying it... > (possibility it could just be another stab at Greene) > > P.S.S.- want to know the best way to forget all about > the 2000 4x100 antics? > I nominate John Rocker for the 2004 U.S. Javelin team! > (foreigners will probably have to ask who's John Rocker > and how does he relate...) > > > RT >
t-and-f: America's Disgrace!!
Some years ago I gave up watching what Americans call "Football" and Basketball in disgust at the off-field criminal behaviour and boorish antics of the apparently mentally challenged elements who represent those sports professionally. Today I have decided to sever any future involvement with what was once a dignified and beautiful sport. I too will join a boycott of any products endorsed by "Mo..reese" Greene and his ilk who have so disgraced their country in the eyes of the world...it is time these clowns paid some price for this kind of behavior. Roger Cass
t-and-f: MJ vs. Freeman
My favorite post-Sydney matchup would be Cathy Freeman vs Marion over 400m.. I think Marion would eat her alive! MJ looked pretty smooth on her leg, not to mention she ran 49.56 way back in April. = Gary Liguori UWYO Go Pokes! __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/
Re: t-and-f: pacemakers
In a message dated 10/1/00 12:12:11 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >Of course, the drug cynics did predict slow times in the distance events, >although it wasn't true across the board. > Indeed, the women's 5 & 10 were very fast - maybe they aren't experienced enough at the longer distances to know they should run boring tactical races like the men do. Jim Gerweck Running Times
t-and-f: Athlete of the Games . . . ?
Head and shoulders above any other athlete - Korzeniowski's 20K and 50K walk double. Nobody else even come close!
Re: t-and-f: Bob Costas's view of ALEXANDER KARELIN
In a message dated 9/30/00 11:33:13 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >the guy who does the sports television column for > >USA Today (Rudy Martze?) gave his views as to best Olympic announcers, >etc. > >and in the Commentator category he listed Carol second, Maybe, being in the Land Down Under, he was counting from the bottom up. Can't think of any other possible logical explanation. Jim Gerweck Running Times
Re: t-and-f: U.S. men's 4x100 antics
In a message dated 10/1/00 2:55:18 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << > Hey guys, the trouble is you're not IN a U.S. urban > setting. > > Inexperienced athletes on an international 'stage' > forget to think about it- > you can't just NOT offend your peers, you've got to > avoid offending MOST people! If you don't have a > clue of where your culture fits in with other cultures, > you're lost in the dark...if you don't care, you risk > even worse alienation... >> Maybe the antics of the US relay team is offensive to those outside the US but neither I or my family found it anything out of the ordinary in sports in the US. They didn't seem to do anything "in the face" of the teams that finished behind them and seemed to actually enjoy winning. What a concept! I guess had they broken down and cried at the award ceremony that would have been more acceptable. The US media treatment of this is even more comical. In every single football and basketball game played at the professional level in this country there is this type of "look at me I am the greatest" type of behavior. ESPN would not be around without it. Now that a couple of guys in a sport that no one in the media in this country knows anything about decide to act out a bit it's a problem. The media treats the drug situation similarly. Apparently there is zero drug use in football, basketball, baseball, hockey and tennis. The "Olympic" sports are dirty however. Steve S.
RE: t-and-f: UST&F facing ban over drug testing
God Bless Americaand Americans Regards - GT "Foreigners think we're rude anyway." US Olympian Nanceen Perry -Original Message- From: R.T. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, 2 October 2000 7:05 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: UST&F facing ban over drug testing Watch the Bahamian and Jamaican relays crumble as a result. This may sound arrogant, but the Olympics and international athletics needs the U.S. a lot more than the U.S. needs the Olympics. P.S.S.- next time Lundquist's country is too wimpy to defend itself from an invasion by the Russians, don't call on the U.S. to come bail them out of their troubles. RT
Re: t-and-f: UST&F facing ban over drug testing
What we can hold against Lundquist and Merode is that 200 of the 211 member federations of the IAAF don't even have an out-of-competition testing program and we never hear a word about that. What if the USA eliminated its domestic out-of-competition testing program tomorrow. Then Arne wouldn't have any USA domestic positives to complain about the confidentiality of. And his latest blast comes after Craig Masback called for Wada to take over the program. Sounds to me like someone who is looking for a scapegoat not a solution. Ed Koch .. -Original Message- From: Elliott Oti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sunday, October 01, 2000 5:45 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: UST&F facing ban over drug testing >RT wrote: > > > >RT you have made many valuable contributions to this list and I generally >read your posts with pleasure, but your last message was out of line. I >wholeheartedly agree that there is a lot wrong with the current anti-doping >policies of various sport governing bodies. Despite that, Merode and >Lundquist said what they had to say, and could scarcely be expected to say >anything else. Certainly when you consider that the most vociferous calls >for the heads of drug cheats have come from the US media, where non-US >athletes do not even have to fail drugs tests in order to be openly branded >as cheats (yes, I just finished reading an article from the Boston Globe >online five minutes ago). This makes it harder for other countries to >swallow when US athletes who test positive are percieved as being >"protected" by the USATF. This has little to do with the barbaric systems >of justice we foreigners are forced to live under; when our icons like Ben >Johnson and Linford Christie are tested positive and are banned, crucified >and vilified by the US media, we definitely feel cheated if we are robbed of >the opportunity to do the same to a US athlete now and then. > >We are all keenly aware of the fact that professional athletes are dependent >on the many lucrative track and field meets held in the US, and that without >the massive stream of income generated by US TV contracts for these meets >they would be starving in the gutters. For this the IAAF is no doubt duly >thankful, and I am sure they would do nothing to hurt the immense popularity >of track and field in the States. So I think you can rest assured that >Merode and Lundquist did not mean for the athletes who tested positive to be >deprived of their rights under US law. Don't hold it against them, will you? > >Cheers, > >Elliott Oti >
t-and-f: Suzy's Place in American (Olympic Metric) Mile History
This is going to be long and undiluted, so if you're not prepared for that, you'll probably want to hit your delete key Alan Shank wrote on Saturday, before the NBC telecast: <> Alan previously on Thursday, following the semifinals, had written: <> Actually, Suzy had surrendered the lead before the the bell. I got results initially (grimly) from the Internet, quickly hypothesized that Suzy couldn't have finished last in 4:23 without falling, but then was puzzled by sketchy reports that suggested she'd fallen WITHOUT collision in what was only a 4:05.10 winning time. Alan's post seemed to piece some sense into the puzzle, and I guessed from the above that maybe Sacramento had challenged on the 1100-1200 curve and Suzy in her in typical fashion (as emphasized by Marty Liquori) had fought (unsuccessfully, too hard) to hold the lead. This, I conjectured, was probably her undoing, as from a 65.4 and 61.9 she'd be near the end of her rope already and not needing to throw in a one-on-one dual. Moreover, Sacramento if I recall correctly lost ground to several people in the homestretch of the heats and semis. I disagreed with Alan's Thursday prediction, and would have substituted Jakubczak among the top seven favorites after watching her through the first two round. So in my mind, reputation notwithstanding, Sacramento wasn't worth holding off on the penultimate curve if that was how it transpired. Well, that wasn't how it happened at all. So, with the telecast, I had to ditch that theory and base Suzy's fall on, if anything, the pace. With a slew of videotape reruns, I got something approximating the following stopwatch readings, all Suzy except for the 1500 (Merah- Benida in parentheses). 400: 1:10.9 500: 1:26.8 700: 1:59.8 800: 2:16.5 1100: 3:02.0 1200: 3:18.4 1400: 3:50.2 1500: (4:05.10) If there is any explanation there with respect to exhaustion, it may be the interior 1000 of 2:39.3 between 400 and 1400, leaving her still 100 short of the finish. To match Merah-Benida at the tape, Suzy would have required (1) a 2:38.3 over the same 400 to 1400...and here's the possible point...(2) a continuance of that same 1000 pace without slowdown over the final 100 for a total of 1100. If that is really THE Kathi Rounds lurking out there... http://wso.williams.edu/listserv/tfselect/Sep1500-Oct100/msg00877.html ..., maybe she could tell us what a 2:38.3 to 2:39.3 is going to feel like, in the middle of a 1500 off a slow opening lap, with a straightaway still to go. Meanwhile, between Alan's Saturday post and the NBC telecast, I did some research and determined that the last American to lead an Olympic 1500 at the bell was Joie Ray in 1920. This, from a combination of THE MILERS by Cordner Nelson and Roberto Quercetani, THE COMPLETE BOOK OF THE SUMMER OLYMPICS by David Wallechinsky, the Leni Riefenstahl film of the 1936 Olympics (now on video), and my own memory for more recent Olympics. Suzy, however, took BACK the lead on the final lap, and was still a bit in front entering the final curve. The last American to lead an Olympic 1500 entering the final curve, from what I can determine, was Abel Kiviat in 1912. Recall, if you will, the last four-time U.S. former NCAA track champion who took back the lead on the last lap of the Olympics, a runner who likewise didn't medal and took another 70 gutsy meters or so to break down (less severely), and her last-lap run is a bit more illustrious. Win, lose, or disaster, Suzy rarely fails to be dramatic. In my humble opinion, Liquori rose to the occasion throughout the heats, semifinals, and final. I thought it was his finest hour as an announcer. There was something more than the usual edge, more than the usual intensity, which I think was perhaps vicarious, as if making up for the lost opportunity to himself be in the same race in his post-collegiate prime of 1972 and/or 1976. Marty strategizing throughout, positioning Suzy and Marla where ideally he thought they should be. Marty pinpointing Marla's first-semi clocking, and comparing the second-semi lap splits with what would bump her off or the bubble or alternatively advance her. Suzy, I gather, was running for herself and family and fans and friends, to answer critics, and to honor her brother. Marty, with the advantage of increased age and wisdom, I think sensed acutely that there was more at stake. He mentioned that the U.S. women had never medaled in the 1500. And then, as if not to cast gender dispersions, added that the U.S. men hadn't done so hot, either, in the last "fifty" years. For the record--and I'm sure Craig Masback as a miler knows this, so presumably Liquori does also--the last American to actually win an Olympic 1500 gold medal was Mel Sheppard in 1908. Sheppard subsequently captured the 800 at the same Olympics, then earned a triple by anchoring the first Olympic gold-medal relay
Re: t-and-f: Liquori's comments
My apologies to Marty then. Schiefer
t-and-f: A patron saint for the sport?
Netters: It was entirely appropriate that, as the Olympics closed out in Sydney on Oct. 1, one of the saints being canonized in Rome that day was Mother Katherine Drexel, founder of the Sisters of the Blessed Sacrament. What is the connection? Her order founded Xavier University in New Orelans, which, in the immediate pre-WW II years, was a pioneer among black colleges in the sport of track and field, along with Tuskegee Institute. One of the New Jersey athletes lured to New Orelans in those days was Claude Paxton of Long Branch, who was the top high hurdler in our state history until Milt Campbell came along. In 1938, Paxton set a record of 7.6 over four sets of college-size hurdles at the National (Eastern) championships in Madison Square Garden, a record which lasted until Campbell first tied it in 1952 and then smashed it with a 7.2 in 1953. Paxton's career was ended by WW II, but he remained in Louisiana---as did another Long Branch hurdler, Gilder Farrow--and went on to coach for years at Southern University, where his pupils included Rod Milburn, 1972 Olympic HH champion. When Rod died tragically in that fire not too long ago, his smooth style of hurdling was noted, the same style Paxton had learned back here in NJ, the same style that brought NJ born and bred hurdlers Campbell, Elias Gilbert and Renaldo Nehemiah to world records. And it all began with one woman's dream--to found educational students for those at the fringe of American society, for which she earned her own "gold medal" today. Ed Grant On another matter, the demonstration by the US 4x100 team brouight back memories of Munich in 1972 when so much was made of the attitude of Vince Matthews on the victory stand after the 400M. I missed that because of an assignment in another part of the city right after his victory, but noted at the time that his apparent disrespect for the flag-raising ceremony was not the first at that Olympics. Swimmer John Nabors had joked around and waved to friends while accepting one of his gold medals at the nearby Schwimmenhalle a few nights earlier. The difference was that, while Matthews was in midfield, the cynosure of 80,000 or so eyes, the victory stands at the Schwimmenhalle was almost hidden in one corner---it could hardly be in the middle of the pool---and not as much attention was paid to his antics (There were other reasons, of course, as Matthews had been a member of the WR 4x400 team four years earlier in Mexico City, one of those Eastern athletes, by the way, who that year ignored the bid of big bully Harry Edwards and his gang to boycott that Olympics.) And still a third matter: as the 4 x100 was getting under way, one of the announcers, not Carol Lewis, though I was at my computer and was not paying enough attention to hear who said it---came up with the comment that Jon Drummond might just be the best leadoff man in the Olympic history of the event. I would suggest whoever it is check the order run in Berlin in 1936. Ed Grant
t-and-f: Boorish behavior
Some Americans do not have a monopoly on boorish, excessive behavior. After the Yugoslav team upset the Russians in men's volleyball, Vladimir Grbic put on quite a display according to the Associated Press: "Grbic stripped to his underwear and wrapped the Yugoslav flag around his waist." Wonder how that played in Belgrade?! Ryan Lamppa
t-and-f: (fwd) Track Listserve Admin - Help Needed!!
-forwarding on behalf of Michael Roth-- Would the List Administrator please contact me, as I have been unable to post here in a few days. Thank you, MJR [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: t-and-f: U.S. men's 4x100 antics
I guess I can second this impression. I personally looked at it as being grossly disrespectful (I am not American) and simply yet another example of unsportsmanlike American sportsmen, but I was watching with some American women who did not understand why NBC was making a big deal of it. Their words were, "they earned it". I guess that is tantamount to saying "I did not have to pay for it" :). As for Rocker, I think that most if not all Americans were of the opinion that his statements were definitely "un-American" and at least not PC. Of course, Australian long jumpers might not have found his statements offensive. Horace On Sun, 1 Oct 2000, R.T. wrote: > In spite of the big deal that NBC made of it, the > behaviour by the Americans was small potatoes. > > What they did would be a perfectly acceptable mode > of exhuberation and celebration in almost any > U.S. urban setting. > > Hey guys, the trouble is you're not IN a U.S. urban > setting. > > Inexperienced athletes on an international 'stage' > forget to think about it- > you can't just NOT offend your peers, you've got to > avoid offending MOST people! If you don't have a > clue of where your culture fits in with other cultures, > you're lost in the dark...if you don't care, you risk > even worse alienation... > > P.S.- I'll bet that at least two of the four hadn't > the tiniest clue (or cared) as to the identify of > the person handing them their medals. > (it was Henry Kissinger, arguably one of the biggest > names of the latter half of the 20th century). > It would pay them to slow down and listen to what's > going on around them- > but I guess that, like sage wisdom, it only comes with > years of maturing... > Michael Johnson was right to call it immaturity, but > I'm not sure of his motivation for saying it... > (possibility it could just be another stab at Greene) > > P.S.S.- want to know the best way to forget all about > the 2000 4x100 antics? > I nominate John Rocker for the 2004 U.S. Javelin team! > (foreigners will probably have to ask who's John Rocker > and how does he relate...) > > > RT >
Re: t-and-f: Suzy's Place in American (Olympic Metric) Mile History
CHRIS KUYKENDALL wrote: > If there is any explanation there with respect to exhaustion, it may be > the interior 1000 of 2:39.3 between 400 and 1400, leaving her still > 100 short of the finish. To match Merah-Benida at the tape, Suzy > would have required (1) a 2:38.3 over the same 400 to 1400...and > here's the possible point...(2) a continuance of that same 1000 pace > without slowdown over the final 100 for a total of 1100 I really don't think you can attribute her fall/exhaustion to the pace; aftter all, all the runners who had strong stretch runs ran the same race. Suzy was suffering from dehydrattion - God knows why, after she made it through Sacramento, but she just didn't have it. I would expect she would have been even worse off if the pace had been stiff from the beginning. > So she was seemingly within realistic reach, and implictly was > trying to do... > > what Glenn Cunningham could not do in the 1930s; > what Jim Ryun could not do in the 1960s; > what Mary Decker Slaney could not do in the 1980s. You're doing like NBC again, ignoring the World Championships. Go back to 1983, with Slaney passed and cut off on the last turn, coming back with a great stretch run to win her 2nd gold of the WC, after having beaten Kazankina head-to-head in the 3. Mary Slaney could do it, and did it. Cheers, Alan Shank
t-and-f: U.S. men's 4x100 antics, Class Clowns, etc.
I'm reminded of two earlier examples of public disfavor at victory stand behavior, although emphatically of a very different kind. In 1968, Tommie Smith and John Carlos were denied relay participation and sent home for their eloquent, silent, dignified statement, during the 200m medal presentation, on racial discrimination and black poverty in the U.S. In 1972, Dave Wottle was so excited when receiving his 800m gold medal that he forgot to remove his cap during the playing of the national anthem. I very much doubt that anyone was seriously affronted by this gaffe, but Wottle was so chagrined that he made a tearful public apology. I see some difference in opinion reflected in postings about the 4x100 members' behavior. I'd be more interested in the reactions of Smith, Carlos and Wottle--I doubt that any of the three would be amused. Cheers? Roger
Re: t-and-f: U.S. men's 4x100 antics
Scott wrote: >I would expect to have to watch high school athletes act the way they did, >not international competetors representing their country. I was embarassed >by their extremely unsportsman-like gloating and parading and felt very >offended. What a bunch of asses! ESPECIALLY Bernard Williams. What a >moron!? All speed and no brains... Wait a minute, I didn't care for their antics either, but I think we are getting a little carried away here, and perhaps we are applying something of a double standard. Let's rewind the tape back to the US trials in Sacramento in July: the top three women pole vaulters (Dragila, Suttle, and Mueller) thrilled with their victory and headed for Sydney, when on and near the victory stand celebrate with dancing around, posing, tumbling routines, and just general exuberance. And everyone, including some list members, PRAISED this display. Refreshing and good for the sport and all that, thought it was funny, etc. The difference were really only two: the women (unfortunately!) didn't take their shirts off, and the women's antics didn't involve the flag and national anthem. But then the anthem isn't played at the trials medal ceremony, and there flag isn't displayed much either, because everyone there is an American, so what's the point? So I fault the men for not being more respectful with the flag and during the anthem. They should have known better. But if prancing, clowning, posing, and joking around are just good fun and good for the sport when done by female pole-vaulters, then it should be regarded in the same way when done by male sprinters. Kurt Bray _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com.
t-and-f: ALAN WEBB ENTERED TO RUN AT HAGAN STONE XC CLASSIC, GREENSBORO NC
Title: ALAN WEBB ENTERED TO RUN AT HAGAN STONE XC CLASSIC, GREENSBORO NC HAGAN STONE XC CLASSIC ³GREAT MEET, ON A GREAT COURSE² SOUTH LAKES HIGH SCHOOL WITH ALAN WEBB ARE ENTERED TO RUN. THERE IS STILL TIME TO ENTER FOR HIGH SCHOOL TEAMS AND COLLEGES. SATURDAY, OCTOBER 7 COURSE: 100% GRASS/TRAIL PLACE: HAGAN STONE PARK, GREENSBORO, NC SCHEDULE: 9:30 AM UNIVERSITY MEN 8K 9:30 AM OPEN MEN 8K 10:15 AM UNIVERSITY WOMEN 5K 10:45 AM HIGH SCHOOL BOYS 5K 11:15 AM HIGH SCHOOL GIRLS 5K 11:45 AM JV BOYS & GIRLS, MIDDLE SCHOOL 5K AWARDS: UNIQUE HAND CARVED IRONWOOD FOR TOP 2 WINNING TEAMS TOP 2 TEAMS , TOP 15 INDIVIDUALS, 1ST PLACE TEAM MEMBERS(7) ENTRY FEE: $20.00 PER HIGH SCHOOL MEN¹S TEAM 3-15 RUNNERS $30.00 PER HIGH SCHOOL MEN¹S TEAM 16+ RUNNERS $20.00 PER HIGH SCHOOL WOMEN¹S TEAM 3-15 RUNNERS $30.00 PER HIGH SCHOOL WOMEN¹S TEAM 16+ $8.00 PER INDIVIDUAL ENTRIES DUE: RECEIVED BY SUNDAY, OCTOBER 1 CALL FOR LATE ENTRIES CHECKS PAYABLE TO GREENSBORO CROSS COUNTRY MEET DIRECTOR & INFORMATION: CHARLIE BROWN, 2304 GRACEWOOD DR., GREENSBORO, NC 27408-2509, PH. 336-282-8052 RACE DAY ONLY REGISTRATION FOR OPEN ATHLETES AND MIDDLE SCHOOL.
Re: t-and-f: U.S. men's 4x100 antics, Class Clowns, etc.
The two track & field events of '72 are interesting- Vince Matthews twirls the gold medal around his finger on the victory stand and is immediately banished by his Federation. Wasn't even given a chance to apologize. Dave Wottle absent-mindedly forgets to doff his hat (but puts his hand over his heart) during the anthem. Later realizes what had happened, makes a tearful apology. No action by anybody. The cynics claimed that Avery Brundage hated black sprinters. The realists claimed Wottle showed appropriate reverence and respect for symbology while Matthews did not. Either way, the whole thing is ridiculous. Award ceremonies shouldn't have national anthems; athletes shouldn't represent national teams. Keep the celebrity know-nothing-about-athletics presenters off the field. Deliver the medals by homing pigeon. The whole thing about the athlete leaning over to have a medal-on-a-chain-or-ribbon hung around their neck smells too much like Greek champions being crowned as Gods. These people are humans (as the 4x100 winners behavior certainly showed). Shaking the hand of the winner is adequate- trash the rest of the 'ceremonial' stuff. In fact, all the athletes shaking each others hands and giving hugs to each other is perfectly satisfactory- respect by peers is what counts- and it also reveals what kind of person each one of them is. Do they respectfully congratulate and console each other in both victory and defeat - or do they ignore their competitors while beating their own chest and preening and posing (or sulking)? Decathletes and women pole vaulters are some of the best in our sport at camaraderie and mutual respect. Sprinters are some of the worst. RT
t-and-f: director of fun
Jules Trigueiro >Director of Fun, Prefontaine Classic I remember dancing with Jules in Eugene in 1982. It was fun. You don't get that much chance to dance with promoter's wives in Europe and nor would you want to. Randall Northam
t-and-f: Syracuse Festival of Races
SYRACUSE FESTIVAL OF RACES Sunday October 1, 2000 Syrcause, New York 65 Degrees/Beautiful Weather MEN 1. Gabriel Muchiri, Kenya, 13:50, $800 2. Amos Gitagana, Kenya, 13:54, $500 3. Sammy Ng'eno, Kenya, 13:55, $300 4. Khalid Khannouchi, Ossing NY, 13:58, $200 5. David Njuguna, Kenya, 14:04, $100 6. Paul Mbugua, Kenya, 14:17, $50 7. Todd Williams, Knoxville TN, 14:20, $50 8. Charles Njeru, Kenya, 14:22, $50 9. John Mwai, Kenya, 14:26, $50 10. Mark Andrews, Canisteo NY, 14:26, $50 WOMEN 1. Lucy Njeri, Kenya, 16:06, $800 2. Jackline Torori, Kenya, 16:07, $500 3. Martha Komu, Kenya, 16:09, $300 4. Grace Momanyi, Kenya, 16:29, $200 5. Sarah Dupre, Kingston ON, 16:41, $100 6. Mary Knisely, Naperville IL, 16:43 $50 (41 years old) 7. Victoria Mitchell, Amherst NY, 16:52, $50 8. Jodye L. Dariano, Three Bridges NJ, 17:07, $50 9. Kristin White, Fayettville NY, 17:10, $50 10. Madelyn Noe, Freehold NJ, 17:21, $50 video footage at http://TrackMeets.com
t-and-f: Bernard Williams - Call your Agent
> As many of you know, sprinting is a hind-brain activity. > > The trick is when not sprinting to switch back to the cognitive > functions...if they exist. > > Bernard, thanks for the show, but the act still needs more work before you > can put it on Broadway. > > Tony Craddock > > PS For those of you that missed it, in the post-race NBC trackside > interview of the victorious Men's 4x100M team, Bernard Williams kept > pulling a series of faces into the camera which seemed to indicate that he > was either mentally deranged or on acid. I watched the celebrations of the American 4x100m relay team and for a while was amused. Then I saw that the quartet didn't care at all about their fellow competitiors because they DELAYED the start of the women's 4x400 relay and I started to despair. What is it about the world's richest nation that makes their young men so crass? Not their young women. Marion Jones remained a class act throughout. Three golds, two bronzes was awesome yet she never resorted to crowing like an immature young cock. Maybe that's it... cock, young men, excess testosterone. We saw Carter behaving like a prat in the early rounds of the 400 hurdles but failing in the final... ditto Capel in the 200. Then the 4x100 team, aruguably the hottest gold medal certainties of the track and field competition, showing themselves up. When you are old enough to remember the dignified protests of Tommie Smith, John Carlos and Lee Evans on the medal podium in 1968 when they had a genuine point to make it makes the behaviour of current crop of American sprinters even harder to bear. I never really liked Carl Lewis but his behaviour in victory was always magnanimous. Michael Johnson never shows off however much some of this list may feel he fails to appreciate his fans, Ed Moses was a giant in achievement and demeanour, as was Renaldo Nehemiah, Butch Reyonds, JJohnny Gary et al. Something went wrong in the upbringing and development of this latest lot of American athletes. Very, very sad. Randall Northam
t-and-f: Before Marty Liquori writes off El Guerrouj
> Before Marty Liquori writes off El Guerrouj in favor of Coe as the greatest > 1500m runner ever, "...out of the top ten" he said, lets compare the tale of > the tape: You are not comparing like with like. Surely we all now by know that you cannot compare different eras in terms of time or the tape (but the way they don't have tapes any more). All we can do is measure in terms of achievement. Coe is the only man to successfully defend an Olympic 1500 metres crown. (and by the time he did it (1984) the world championships were only one edition old so he did not have the opportunity to boost his CV by winning world titles. El G has not won the Olympic 1500 metres yet. He tripped up physically in Atlanta and metally in Sydney. I can't be bothered to research how many world records El G has set at 1500 or the mile, or, come to that, how many Coe did. But as a journalist who followed Coe through his greatest years I have no hesitation is placing him as the second greatest 1500/miler who ever lived. My first - Herb Elliott, the one Australian you never saw or heard of in Sydney. And, hey, he was so much slower than El G as well. Randall Northam
t-and-f: test
test
Re: t-and-f: UST&F facing ban over drug testing
> What we can hold against Lundquist and Merode is that 200 of the 211 member > federations of the IAAF don't even have an out-of-competition testing > program and we never hear a word about that. What if the USA eliminated its > domestic out-of-competition testing program tomorrow. Then Arne wouldn't > have any USA domestic positives to complain about the confidentiality of. > And his latest blast comes after Craig Masback called for Wada to take over > the program. Sounds to me like someone who is looking for a scapegoat not a > solution. > > Ed Koch Ed Koch is correct and has been more diplomatic than most would be. Lundquist is blowing smoke out his ass. Ha! Just try suspending U.S. athletes. Of course, meets have plenty of athletes from around the world to draw from, but just imagine major European promoters with a chance to get MJ and Mo but they can't because the U.S. has been suspended from competition. Money talks and the IAAF would quickly find themselves VERY alone in the world. The same thing might happen if the IAAF threatened a similar sanction against Kenya, Great Britain or half a dozen other countries. I'm actually glad to see this BS, because it means some things are going to happen and happen soon (although I don't know what - I'll just watch the fireworks!) - Ed
RE: t-and-f: Before Marty Liquori writes off El Guerrouj
We're reading from the same page on "...comparing different eras" and "...Herb Elliott"; however, Coe and his nemesis Ovett avoided each other at all costs and only ran in "fixed" races. That alone should drop them out of contention for "greatest ever". What I was illustrating with the stats is that Coe doesn't measure up to the anyone/anywhere/anytime standards of greatness of Elliott, Walker, Scott (you heard me), Aouita, Morceli, El Guerrouj, and Ngeny. El Guerrouj tripped up mentally in Sydney? PURE RUBBISH. He was beaten fair and square by the second fastest runner in history, whose stategem of drafting was his only chance at winning. It was bound to happen some day. malmo!TM Another self-anointed "award-winning" pundit for the Sydney2000TM Olympics > You are not comparing like with like. Surely we all now by know that you > cannot compare different eras in terms of time or the tape (but > the way they > don't have tapes any more). All we can do is measure in terms of > achievement. > Coe is the only man to successfully defend an Olympic 1500 metres crown. > (and by the time he did it (1984) the world championships were only one > edition old so he did not have the opportunity to boost his CV by winning > world titles. > El G has not won the Olympic 1500 metres yet. He tripped up physically in > Atlanta and metally in Sydney. I can't be bothered to research how many > world records El G has set at 1500 or the mile, or, come to that, how many > Coe did. But as a journalist who followed Coe through his greatest years I > have no hesitation is placing him as the second greatest > 1500/miler who ever > lived. My first - Herb Elliott, the one Australian you never saw > or heard of > in Sydney. And, hey, he was so much slower than El G as well. > Randall Northam > >
t-and-f: Where was Herb
In a message dated 10/1/00 8:47:30 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >Herb Elliott, the one Australian you never saw or heard of >in Sydney An excellent point! With all the UC&P stuff NBC did, how come they couldn't come up w/ a piece on Elliot & Cerutty? Jim Gerweck Running Times
t-and-f: "Independant Olympic Athletes?"
In the marathon results on nbcolympics.com Calisto Da Costa (71rst place) is associated not with a country but listed as an independent Olympic Athlete. Does anyone know what this means? Paul *** Paul Talbot Department of Geography/ Institute of Behavioral Science University of Colorado, Boulder Boulder CO 80309-0260 (303) 492-3248 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: t-and-f: SHAME, SHAME, SHAME
AMEN BROTHER AMEN 4 x 1 = "ugly americans" Mike (embarassed to be American) Fanelli - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 1:58 PM Subject: t-and-f: SHAME, SHAME, SHAME > SHAME, SHAME, SHAME > Olympic Games, Sydney, Australia > > Shame on all the athletes that use illegal drugs. The ends do not justify > the means. > > Shame on everyone who covers it up. > > Shame on the United States men's 4x100 relay team for their rude display > after winning the gold medal. You may be fast, but you don't have any class. > I plan to boycott all Kellogg's products for putting Maurice Greene on their > cereal box. > > You just don't get it. Grow up. > > Keith Conning > Vacaville, CA >
RE: t-and-f: "Independant Olympic Athletes?"
He was one of the three or four athletes from East Timor. Paul! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of P.F.Talbot Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 9:53 PM To: Track list Subject: t-and-f: "Independant Olympic Athletes?" In the marathon results on nbcolympics.com Calisto Da Costa (71rst place) is associated not with a country but listed as an independent Olympic Athlete. Does anyone know what this means? Paul *** Paul Talbot Department of Geography/ Institute of Behavioral Science University of Colorado, Boulder Boulder CO 80309-0260 (303) 492-3248 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: t-and-f: Korzeniowski walks into Olympic history
In a message dated 10/1/00 10:25:07 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >If contact was not maintained >it would light up, setting off a small explosive charge ju8st big enough >to >blow their heads off. Great! Racewalking goes from least watched event in T&F to #1, and the sport rivals NASCAR for TV ratings. Jim Gerweck Running Times
(fwd) Re: t-and-f: Where was Herb
DeCastella in the marathon would have been a good 'where are they now' too. Although here on the west coast, the marathon 'just started', so I may see DeCastella yet! (yeh, sure...) RT On Sun, 01 Oct 2000 19:14:24 -0700, R.T. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Sun, 1 Oct 2000 21:49:34 EDT, you wrote: > >In a message dated 10/1/00 8:47:30 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > >>Herb Elliott, the one Australian you never saw or heard of >>in Sydney > >An excellent point! With all the UC&P stuff NBC did, how come they couldn't >come up w/ a piece on Elliot & Cerutty? > >Jim Gerweck >Running Times Or John Landy or Ron Clarke. Australia has a very rich heritage. The race between Landy and Roger Bannister to be the first to break the 4-minute mile (and their subsequent Empire Games duke-it-out) would have been a nice one. Whadda ya wanta bet they had it ready "in the can" but decided not to use it because they couldn't tie it to any current sob story? RT
Re: t-and-f: U.S. men's 4x100 antics
It's not just foreigners who found their antics distasteful. Nanceen Perry said "People think Americans are rude and obnoxious and they went out and proved them right." Ed Prytherch > > >>Maybe the antics of the US relay team is offensive to those outside the US >but neither I or my family found it anything out of the ordinary in sports in >the US. . > >Steve S. >
t-and-f: USATF, doping, and the US legal system.
The demagogues have come out in full force in a transparent effort to give support to Masback and the USATF for their indefensible position of suppressing the positive drug tests of American athletes. Now Doriane Lambelet Coleman, the Duke University law professor who gained some notoriety by defending Mary Slaney, has jumped into the fray: http://www.nytimes.com/2000/10/01/sports/01DECK.html In a deliberate attempt to distort and confuse, all sorts of nonsensical legalisms are thrown out: LEGAL PRECEDENCE, DUE PROCESS, CONFIDENTIALITY, INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY. "We're constrained by the US legal system", they've said. BULLSHIT! The fact is, with few exceptions, our legal system is built around the concept of openness of the adjudication process -- there is no "right to secret back-room tribunals". If you are an airline pilot, a train engineer, a bus driver or, yes, even just an ordinary private citizen, have an accident while on or off the job, and you can be summarily suspended without pay, and the results of your drug tests will be made public. No "right of confidentiality here" is there? That is the legal precedent. What we're talking about here is not criminal, nor even civil violations of law. We're talking about is the administrative rules of a sporting federation. Those rules can be changed at any time to reflect spirit of our open legal system -- if only our leadership would have the will to do so. Why does this leadership resist openness? Follow the money, my friends. Follow the money. malmo!TM Another self-anointed "award-winning" pundit for the Sydney2000TM Olympics
Re: t-and-f: USATF, doping, and the US legal system.
>The fact is, with few exceptions, our legal system is built around the >concept of openness of the adjudication process -- there is no "right to >secret back-room tribunals". If you are an airline pilot, a train engineer, >a bus driver or, yes, even just an ordinary private citizen, have an >accident while on or off the job, and you can be summarily suspended without >pay, and the results of your drug tests will be made public. No "right of >confidentiality here" is there? That is the legal precedent. >What we're talking about here is not criminal, nor even civil violations of >law. We're talking about is the administrative rules of a sporting >federation. Those rules can be changed at any time to reflect spirit of our >open legal system -- if only our leadership would have the will to do so. The IAAF tried your argument in the Butch Reynolds case- and lost. RT
t-and-f: Seb Coe
SOME GUY WROTE ME: "I like Steve Scott a lot, and I admire everything he did on the track. But how you can compare him with these others is beyond me. They all won major international championships and all but Ngeny set World Records. If memory serves correctly, Scott never did." I RESPONDED: Hence that parenthetic emphasis [...Scott (you heard me)]. My point is that there is no doubt that Coe is a great champion and a world-class gentleman, but as an athlete, I respect Steve Scott more -- much more. He was kept out of many of Coe's "fixed" races. malmo
Re: t-and-f: Capel's start
Problem, Capel flinched, which does not constitute a false start. If his feet did not leave the pressure plates there would be no indication to the starting officials. He made a rookie mistake, ask Jon Drummond(Zurich) or Greg Foster. If you do not hear a recall keep going, period! I bet next time he won't stop. WIlly
Re: t-and-f: Boorish behavior
And who did you ask about this supposed disgrace? There was very little word of it among the throngs of fans, who dictated the celebration. The complaints came from the media, and a couple of athletes, who quite frankly seemed bitter. Do you know those guys had no clue they had done anything wrong until a reporter brought it to there attention in the press conference, almost 2 hours after everything. 100k + cheered the show, and the unabashed joy was refreshing. Tears are not the only means to showing true joy! William
t-and-f: Brown hails setback for blood dopers
Electronic Telegraph Monday 2 October 2000 Tom Knight JON BROWN delivered the most chilling comment on these Games after finishing fourth in the marathon, the final event of this two-week spectacular. Unfancied for a medal, with no form at all this year because of injury, Brown came within seven seconds of claiming bronze behind the winner, Gezahgne Abera of Ethiopia. Brown said: "This is the first marathon I've done on an even playing field. I now know that with the new test, I can be competitive." The test he is referring to is for erythropoietin, or EPO - the blood boosting drug which produces more oxygen-carrying red blood cells - which was approved by the International Olympic Committee just a week before the Games began. The new test was the IOC's heavy artillery in their fight to make these the cleanest Games yet. The result has been that doping has topped the agenda in Sydney from the first day of competition, and although no athlete has tested positive for EPO, the existence of the deterrent appears to have had a significant effect on events in Stadium Australia. A long way behind Brown were athletes from Portugal and Spain, the countries which have consistently featured in the rumours about the use of EPO over the past few years. Brown has been talking about the abuse of the drug in other countries for more than three years. His level playing field theory could explain results on the track during the past nine days, when the endurance events in particular have produced some surprises. The lack of world records is understandable but the drop in times and standards has suggested something more sinister. The vast majority of the 5,000 metres races on the grand prix circuit are won in sub-13 minute times yet the gold medal was won with 13min 35.49sec, the slowest time since 1968. Ali Said-Sief, of Algeria, the favourite, was outkicked in a sprint finish when victory went to Ethiopia's Million Wolde. East Africans won every men's event from 1500m to the marathon. It was, said some observers, a return to the old order. Max Jones, Britain's performance director, said: "The distance races have been very competitive at sub-world record level, so maybe the EPO test has had an effect. The fact that the IOC, Australia and the World Anti-Doping Agency have stepped up the fight has made it difficult to cheat here." He said results in Sydney would encourage Britain's beleaguered distance runners, adding: "They can look at events here and realise they can make it to major championship finals." Britain's 77 athletes ended the campaign with six medals, exactly the target the sport set itself as part of its pitch for the £9 million in National Lottery funding it has received since 1997. There were six medals in Atlanta, but here, Denise Lewis and Jonathan Edwards won gold. More significantly, Britain finished fourth in the points table based on the position of athletes in finals, their total of 90 placing them behind the USA (185), Russia (132) and Germany (100). "The points mean we are stronger in world terms than in Atlanta and even last year's World Championships in Seville," Jones said. Two years into a six-year plan taking athletics to the 2004 Olympics, he wants UK Athletics to be given more freedom to manage funding. Their first task is to identify the dozen or so potential medallists at next year's World Championships. Paula Radcliffe will be one of those after her courageous run for fourth in the women's 10,000m. Radcliffe, like Brown an outspoken critic of athletes who use EPO, led for 23 of the 25 laps, only to be passed by the medallists. Her expert pacemaking allowed Ethiopia's Derartu Tulu to break the Olympic record with 30-17.49 to regain the title she won eight years ago in Barcelona. Radcliffe's run was the only high spot on a disappointing final day for Britain's athletes. The 1500m proved one race too many for Kelly Holmes. She followed her run in the 800m, where her bronze proved so inspirational to team-mates, with seventh in the metric mile. The winner was Nouria Merah-Benida, a 29-year-old Algerian who surprised everyone except her compatriot Hassiba Boulmerka, the 1992 champion, who was cheering from the stands. Gaby Szabo, the Romanian who won 5,000m gold, sprinted from 11th to third round the final circuit. Marla Runyan, the American who is legally blind and competed at the Paralympics in 1996, was eighth. Hopes of a British medal in the women's 4 x 400 m relay lasted no longer than Natasha Danvers's run on the first leg, when she handed the baton to Donna Fraser in eighth place. Victory for the United States gave Marion Jones her third gold medal of the Games. Eamonn Condon WWW.RunnersGoal.com
RE: t-and-f: Boorish behavior
Willy B is right!!! Every published picture and video replay shows a wildly enthusiastic and complicit crowd. Another case of the media creating news. Besides, who the hell is Costas and NBC, with the Karelin fiasco, to be pointing fingers? malmo!TM Another self-anointed "award-winning" pundit for the Sydney2000TM Olympics > Subject: Re: t-and-f: Boorish behavior > > > And who did you ask about this supposed disgrace? There was very > little word of it among the throngs of fans, who dictated the > celebration. The complaints came from the media, and a couple of > athletes, who quite frankly seemed bitter. > Do you know those guys had no clue they had done anything wrong > until a reporter brought it to there attention in the press > conference, almost 2 hours after everything. 100k + cheered the > show, and the unabashed joy was refreshing. Tears are not the > only means to showing true joy! > > William >
t-and-f: IAAF say GB more open than America
Electronic Telegraph Monday 2 October 2000 Mihir Bose THE United States of America Track and Field cleared two athletes who had been found to be positive for nandrolone without telling anyone in a move which has been described as "alarming" by the International Amateur Athletic Federation's top anti-doping official. Professor Arne Ljungqvist, head of the IAAF's medical commission, said in Sydney yesterday: "The Americans have taken the privilege on themselves to exonerate without informing us who the athletes are and saying this is confidential. That is alarming. It rings bells in the IAAF." Ljungqvist contrasted the secrecy of the Americans with that of the British who have made public the four nandrolone cases involving Gary Cadogan, Dougie Walker, Linford Christie and Mark Richardson. Ljungqvist had been critical of Britain for refusing to disclose the names to the public before the appeals procedure was over, but yesterday he said: "When I was reported to have made those comments UK friends came up to me and they were a little bit upset. What I said was you can't keep these cases secret, they leak out. But there is a clear difference between the US and UK. After the A sample of the athlete has been tested the UK give us information. "As far as informing the IAAF is concerned, the UK is not a problem. But the Americans do not inform us at all. And if the Americans exonerate an athlete they do not tell us anything. They will have to change." Ljungqvist's comments came as more details emerged about the curious way the Americans dealt with the doping test of C J Hunter, the husband of triple Games gold medallist Marion Jones. He tested positive at the Bislett Games in Norway on July 28. The results of the test, which showed that Hunter was 1,000 times over the limit for nandrolone, arrived from the Norwegian lab on Aug 10. The Americans were informed by the IAAF on Aug 11 and asked to seek an explanation from Hunter. What they came up with, says Ljungqvist, "was no explanation" and on Aug 24 the IAAF informed the USATF that Hunter should be excluded from the Olympics. However, says Ljungqvist, "the Americans said Hunter had not informed his wife and must be given time to inform her". The next day was the last day for entering athletes for the Olympics and the Americans gave Hunter his credentials for Sydney and listed him in the US media handbook. The IAAF were clearly alarmed by this and kept on telling the USATF that Hunter could not compete. On Sept 10, said Ljungqvist, "we reminded them he is not allowed to compete". The next day Hunter withdrew but the reason given was that he was injured. Meanwhile, as Ljungqvist was putting further pressure on the Americans yesterday, it emerged that three more athletes had tested positive. They were Ashot Danielyan, a bronze-medal winning weightlifter from Armenia, and Norwegian wrestler Fritz Aanes. Another athlete, the Russian 400 metres runner Svetlana Pospelova, also tested positive for steroids. But in her case the test took place after she had finished fourth in the first heat of the 400m and by the time the results were known the Russians had already sent her home. In total, Sydney has so far carried out 2,663 urine tests and taken a further 313 blood samples as part of the test for EPO. These have resulted in nine positives, seven in competition, and two out of competition, with four of the seven coming from weightlifting. Eamonn Condon WWW.RunnersGoal.com
t-and-f: My Olympics: Denise Lewis
Electronic Telegraph Monday 2 October 2000 My Olympics: Denise Lewis Sept 4: Finally leave for Australia, a week later than planned. Achilles heel injury has kept me grounded. Preparations have not been ideal, what with intensive physiotherapy and growing fear that I'm not fit to go. But now as I stand at Heathrow T4 with ticket in hand, those fears have subsided. See Kelly Holmes on board as well as Sam Davies, a fellow Birchfield Harrier and a fresh face. Has that glow of anticipation and excitement. Sept 5: London's lights recede, 747 climbs ever higher and pangs of sadness strike me. Feel like an infant leaving mother for first time to go to 'big school'. Next time I see those lights again, life could be very different. Laugh and joke with cabin crew for hours. Even manage to get a little training done (stretching, shoulder work and muscle stimulation from my portable TENS machine, much to amusement of crew!) Sept 6-19: Training camp. Strange. Do not stay with rest of British team. My coach is Dutch and he needs to be with Holland team. Vital that I'm with him. Place is pretty boring. Don't get me wrong, I know it's about training, but time does drag. Over jet lag after four days. Training going well, but I'm strapping the Achilles and calf for every session. Still not sure I'll be able to compete for two days. Not sure it can cope. One way to escape: go to shopping mall (when all else fails, buy clothes). Bought 1500-word jigsaw. Did same thing before World Championships in Seville. Hay fever getting worse. Sept 20: Leave Brisbane with incredible amount of excess baggage. Panicking that I won't be allowed on plane. Five items of hand luggage, full of rubbish. I'm a bit of a hoarder, though I did leave my puzzle. Short flight to Sydney, feel very tired. Injury worries have drained me. Watch Sydney news items on in-flight TV. Start to feel I'm going into Games. Had felt far removed from it until now. No chaos at airport. Very efficient and well organised. Approaching Homebush, driver points out Olympic Stadium. See this colossal arena, shining in the sun. Flickering of Olympic flame. Now I really know. Had talked about not staying in village as I need quiet but discover lovely house, with five bedrooms. Have a room to myself. Team quietly happy that I'm staying with them. They like having medallists - sorry, potential medallists - around. It's a good environment to gather thoughts. Sept 21: Sleep well. Luckily we're away from the Cubans. Next door to them in Atlanta, and they sure know how to party. Three minutes from dining room. Friends all there, waiting to greet me. Really feel part of the team, and realise that whatever I do over the next couple of days will affect them. Have 30 CDs in bag, but do not listen to any of them. Days full. Focal point for village is dining hall. A five-minute meal turns into half-hour session. There is a lot of chatting and kit-spotting. Lot of time spent getting to know the protocol - call times, etc. Sept 21: Big day. Press conference. Tried to anticipate possible questions from media. Didn't expect so many people, but I'm very relaxed. Tension has disappeared. It goes well. No silly questions. Have lunch with Daley Thompson. He tells me: "You're going to win, so get on with the show." Good old Daley. Worry that I've been on my feet too long. Start to feel butterflies. Train at 5pm for about two hours. Because of injuries, need team briefings. Time of the essence. Talked through wake-up times and what treatments we need to go through on my Achilles. Time they came up with for Saturday: 5am! Sit on track talking about preparations. Everybody knows the drill: where to be, what their job is. How long for warm-up, how long for strapping. Everything. Feel light and athletically ready. The look from my coach, Charles van Commenee, says, 'You're ready, you're ready to go'. Cathy Freeman is also there. Think: Boy, that girl's under some pressure. Sept 22: Complete rest. Complete chill-out day. Greta Garbo. Open a few more cards, have had a few more faxes. Final decorations up in room. All my good-luck cards. Re-read them to remind myself how much people are behind me. Then the ritual of laying out the kit. Modern technology makes a difference. Should it be the one-armed throwing outfit or the crop-top with shorts? The leotard? Women and decisions, eh? The bed is covered. I always look at my numbers to see if there's any magic in there. Probably don't mean a damn thing! Make sure I'm completely hydrated. Afternoon sleep. Read for a couple of hours. Then mental rehearsal. I see myself hurdling, see what I've got to do. Try to see Eunice Barber in the next lane, and inevitably she is. Adrenaline kicks in. Mouth goes a bit dry. There are the usual antics in the apartment. A lot of dynamics, a lot of characters. I was nicknamed 'Mother' on arrival. Everyone knows that when Denise is in bed, everyone has to be quiet. No banging of doors, shoes off and tipt
t-and-f: OLY MARATHON CHAMP IS 22 YEARS OLD!!
Underscoring the thread of earlier this week re: US marathoners needing to incorprate the event into their program at an earlier age, we note that today's Olympic Marathon Champion (Gezahenge Abera of Ethiopia) checks in at the ripe young age of 22 (d.o.b. April 23, 1978). I rest my case. -Mike Fanelli
Re: t-and-f: Women's 10,000m Report
>Electronic Telegraph >Sunday 1 October 2000 >Mark Reason > > > > >She [Paula Radcliffe] admitted as much when she said: "I am really, really >disappointed. I >suppose it was a PB, but I could have run faster if I hadn't used such >tactics. Trying to win the race probably cost me a medal. Who remembers who >came fourth." > >Only the 100,000 at the stadium and the billions who watched the race on >television will remember. In four years time more people will recall her >performance than the names of those who won the medals. > Unfortunately, the millions in the United States were denied the chance to share the race. NBC showed nothing of the race, not even the list of medalists. /// Mike Trujillo, Angeleno-in-exile Asst. Girl's Track & Field Coach Davenport (Iowa) Central HS (319) 391-5448 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] \\
t-and-f: Athens handed a brilliant flame
Electronic Telegraph Monday 2 October 2000 Sue Mott THE Games of the 27th Olympiad, begun with a whistle on the hockey field, ended with the roar of an F111 jet as it swooped over the Olympic Stadium in a passable imitation of triple gold medallist Marion Jones. To the end, as they had promised, these were the athletes' games. A crowd of torch-waving Australians that rendered irrelevant the crescent moon above them said goodbye to the Games that have made their far-flung corner of the planet its irresistible centre of attention. On the field below them, a milling celebration of the world's athletes were saying hello to a night of partying that threatened to undo four years of training, dietary caution and their coaches' injunctions in one wind-strewn, sing-song, revel-filled night. Ceremony brought the flags down, Men At Work brought the house down. By then the Olympic flame had been doused to the unfortunate strains of a tousle-haired child singing about saccharine dreams, when the evocative sight of the fire burning lower and lower might have been better accompanied by symbolic silence in which to remember the majestic sport that had gone before. And how it was over, medals won, reputations made, disappointments endured, hamstrings pulled, to reconvene in four years' time in Athens. Back to the cradle of the Games, and "its immortal spirit of antiquity", which is what they are also saying about its telephone system. There have been voiced suspicions that the immortal spirit of antiquity will also infest the transport system not to mention the building programme. But to accusations that the Greeks will never support the technological rigours of the modern Olympiad, they have the perfect riposte. They fight the barbs with big names from B.C. . After all, Pythagoras was here. So was Leonidas, the runner, Milon, the multiple-medalled wrestler, and Pantakes, their most famous 200 metre sprinter, from 696 B.C. , until Konstantinos Kenteris won the only Greek athletic gold in Sydney, crying: "I said Konstan the Greek would win - I feared nobody," in the finest testosterone traditions of Achilles. But for all the doubts and aspersions, not to mention an earlier threat from Juan Antonio Samaranch that the Games would be taken away from Greece and have their majestic earning power issued elsewhere if they didn't get a move on with facilities, few can fail to be moved by the thought of a marathon retracing the footsteps of Phidippides from Marathon and an Olympic stadium alight with athletic dramas in the shadow of the Parthenon. As the scoreboard said: "Welcome home, Olympics!" (and never mind the fact that 70 per cent of its venues are not in place.) "The Games will go ahead in Greece," said a seer as well-informed as an oracle, the senior vice president for international marketing from Visa. "They will, of course, be different." That understatement travels back to Greece along with the parcelled-up Olympic flag, the latter to be displayed at Athens Hall, the former hanging over them like the sword of Damocles. For, how could they be the same? Will Athens produce the convergent miracles of historical feat and joyous humanity (not throwing up en masse, or hitting each other despite the fact that they were sporting spectators) on one glorious site? Will Athens inspire the performance of an American farm boy to wrestle to outlandish defeat the unbeaten colossus from Russia, who hung his great bull neck in a gesture of submission even before the final bell? Will we see the like of a Steve Redgrave again, an athlete who transcends his sport, pain, logic and his wife's absolutely proper disapproval to win to the power of five. If the like we see is Redgrave himself (42 in 2004), he won't need a nebulous "someone" to shoot him, as he begged after the Atlanta Games, Ann Redgrave will have hired a professional assassin. Will the drug-takers be as on the run - in every sense - as they have been at these Sydney Games? Some have inevitably slipped through the pharmaceutical net but it was fitting that the final race of the Olympiad, the marathon, appeared free of the taint of EPO and was won by Gezahgne Abera, of Ethiopia, who ran his victory lap wreathed in smiles and a green feather boa. Many minutes later, a runner from Cambodia crossed the finish line and collapsed, felled by his own exhaustion. It was a graphic tribute to the striving to the last sinew these magnificent Games have inspired. We had the faster, higher, stronger theme played for 17 sun-drenched days. Fastest: Maurice Greene, 100m in 9.87sec. Highest: Nick Hysong, 5.90m in the pole vault. Strongest: the iron will and nerve of Cathy Freeman who ran to the 400m gold medal carrying the emotional weight of her country on her back like a rucksack packed with boulders. The £1 million worth of fireworks with which the Australians closed their Olympics could not blaze more brightly than her post-race smile. The Greeks will have an act to follow: a
Re: t-and-f: America's Disgrace!!
In 1997 I went to the USATF champs in Indy. Saturday night, my wife and I and a friend went out to dinner. We encountered another friend who was sitting with two sprinters (both Olympic champions, World champions, and WR-setters) and joined them for dinner. During the course of the evening the talk turned to the new generation of US sprinters. One of us asked what the veteran sprinters thought about the new kids on the block. The more prominent of the sprinters at the table paused for a moment, then said: "Ever been to the monkey cage at the zoo? That's what these new guys are like." Here it is 2000, and he's finally proved right on worldwide TV. /// Mike Trujillo, Angeleno-in-exile Asst. Girl's Track & Field Coach Davenport (Iowa) Central HS (319) 391-5448 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] \\
t-and-f: Quote of the Day
For something completely different: Racewalker Bernardo Segura, on being disqualified from 1st place for lifting in the 20km Walk at Sydney: "They can't disqualify me," Segura said. "It would be unfair because I ran a clean race." Um, Bernardo, I hate to tell you this, but..that's why they disqualified you: you "ran" part of the race! Walk, don't run, young man. Tim [EMAIL PROTECTED]
t-and-f: Brdige to Bridge Results
Results 24th Annual Bridge to Bridge Race San Francisco, CA 12k Men's Division Jason Balkman 36:33 Reuben Chesang 36:54 Simon Sawe 36:59 Women's Division Natalie Nalepa 42:30 Maria Trujillo 44:13 Chris Lundy 44:29 7k Men's Division Eric Polonski 21:46 Wilhelm Gidabuday 21:52 Juan Torrealba 23:10 Women's Division Rosa Gutierrez 25:36 Brooke Mabe 25:53 Riva Rahl 26:53 For race coverage, including photos, go to www.barn.to -Brian McGuire
Re: t-and-f: UST&F facing ban over drug testing
- Original Message - From: CORA KOCH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Elliott Oti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > What we can hold against Lundquist and Merode is that 200 of the 211 member > federations of the IAAF don't even have an out-of-competition testing > program and we never hear a word about that. What if the USA eliminated its > domestic out-of-competition testing program tomorrow. Then Arne wouldn't > have any USA domestic positives to complain about the confidentiality of. > And his latest blast comes after Craig Masback called for Wada to take over > the program. Sounds to me like someone who is looking for a scapegoat not a > solution. Firstly, many if not most of the 211 member countries are (1) too poor to afford extensive out of competition test programs and (2) do not have enough athletes at the elite level to make such testing worthwhile anyway. Remember that it's often the national T&F bonds that have to pay the bills, and if you think USATF's piggy bank is short on cash, wait till you see the state of , say, Senegal's. This is not an excuse, I think that the IAAF should foot the bills more often. Secondly, some of the loudest calls for out of competition drug testing have come from the US itself. This is bound to boomerang sometimes. When you talk the talk etc. Thirdly, if (say) the Chinese were to be found have covered up drug cheats the general reaction would still be the same. Correction: the general reaction would be ear-splitting. Fourthly, and I name no names (mainly because I've cleaned up my mail archives :-), I seem to recall some talk here about Charlie Francis, a level playing field, and cheating being cheating, no matter what. I'm sure Lundquist and Merode want everybody to be able to look their mom in the eyes. As I said earlier, I do think the IAAF and IOC have very flawed drugs policies. But everybody has to live with them. The IAAF and IOC are reluctant testers; it is the weight, or percieved weight of the public demand from a few rich nations that our sport be "clean" that is spurring their witch hunts. In the light of this I find all this sudden moral indignation strange.
RE: t-and-f: Before Marty Liquori writes off El Guerrouj
Agreed that Coe is a great mid-distance runner (perhaps the greatest), but let's not forget that the two Olympics that he won is gold medals in were heavily boycotted. Although still a great achievement to perform the double, this should be considered when using Olympic medals as a metric for defining greatness. Jeff Hanks -Original Message- From: Randall Northam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 5:40 PM To: posting Subject: t-and-f: Before Marty Liquori writes off El Guerrouj > Before Marty Liquori writes off El Guerrouj in favor of Coe as the greatest > 1500m runner ever, "...out of the top ten" he said, lets compare the tale of > the tape: You are not comparing like with like. Surely we all now by know that you cannot compare different eras in terms of time or the tape (but the way they don't have tapes any more). All we can do is measure in terms of achievement. Coe is the only man to successfully defend an Olympic 1500 metres crown. (and by the time he did it (1984) the world championships were only one edition old so he did not have the opportunity to boost his CV by winning world titles. El G has not won the Olympic 1500 metres yet. He tripped up physically in Atlanta and metally in Sydney. I can't be bothered to research how many world records El G has set at 1500 or the mile, or, come to that, how many Coe did. But as a journalist who followed Coe through his greatest years I have no hesitation is placing him as the second greatest 1500/miler who ever lived. My first - Herb Elliott, the one Australian you never saw or heard of in Sydney. And, hey, he was so much slower than El G as well. Randall Northam
