RE: t-and-f: Two Unrelated Questions
Phillips Academy is not a place concerned with integrity or veracity. This place more connected than Stanford. If you have to ask malmo has a performance list. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 2:44 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Two Unrelated Questions In a message dated Thu, 5 Jul 2001 9:41:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Kurt, I had occasion to meet Jack Lemon about 10 years ago and having heard that he was a top New England h. s. miler I asked what he ran for timeHe paused for a second, looked away from me, turned back to me and said Oh about 4.10 So we can add Lemon's name to the list of famous track frauds. Not sure anybody ever found out exactly when he went to HS, other than to say early 40s, but as of 1940, only 6 Americans (all ages, not preps) had ever broken 4:10. As late as 1954, breaking 4:08 would have put you in the all-time U.S. top 10. gh
t-and-f: Cork City Results
Junior 1500 Liam RealeLimerick AC3.50.48 1 Martin Fagan Mullingar 3.53.40 2 Damien BatemanMullingar 3.55.72 3 Mark Pollard Scotland 3.55.85 4 Sean Conroy Leevale3.57.23 5 Brian Farrell Inverdee 3.58.76 6 Dominic McAllisterSt malachys4.02.79 7 Robert Wade Waterford AC 4.03.55 8 Patrick Guidera Clonmel AC 4.04.53 9 Shane McDermott Raheny 50 4.05.16 10 James Grufferty Leevale 60 4.08.05 11 Fergus Meade East Cork 4.11.53 12 Paul GrantWaterford AC 4.13.42 13 Paul Muldoon Mullinger 4.14.05 14 Thomas ChamneyClonmel AC 4.24.93 15 Chris Watson Scotland DNS Men 100 -2.4 Chris Lambert England 10.59 1 Daniel Money England 10.62 2 Ian Mackie Scotland 10.64 3 Dominic Demeritte Bahamas 10.65 4 Ronald PromesseSt Lucia 10.66 5 Mark HowardIreland 10.68 6 Gary Ryan Ireland 10.88 7 Ben Lewis GB 11.01 8 Men 200 -2.5 Marcus La GrangeRSA 21.00 1 Daniel Money England 21.22 2 Chris Lambert England 21.29 3 Gary Ryan Ireland 21.37 4 Dominic Demeritte Bahamas 21.48 5 Ronald Promesse St Lucia 21.83 6 Tom ComynsIreland 21.89 7 Men 400 Mark Hylton England 46.67 1 Jared DeaconEngland 46.76 2 David Bateman Australia 47 3 Tomas Coman Ireland 47.04 4 Attila KilvingerHungary 48.77 5 Rohan KumaraSri Lanka DNF Men 800m Michael Stember USA 1.48.25 1 Risak DirsheSweden 1.49.62 2 Daniel CaulfieldIreland 1.49.74 3 Diyou Israelli Fiji 1.49.88 4 David Matthews UCD 1.50.29 5 Grant Caddy England 1.50.41 6 Brendan O Shea Ireland 1.50.48 7 Hamza Abdenouz Algeria 1.50.48 8 Alaister McLean Foreman England 1.50.64 9 Grant CremerAustralia1.52.80 10 Men 1500m Mark CarrollLeevale 3.38.76 1 Craig Mottram Australia3.38.97 2 Julius AchonUganda 3.39.31 3 Gareth Turnbull Ireland 3.39.93 4 Fred Cheriuyot Kenya3.39.95 5 James Nolan UCD 3.40.02 6 Tim BroeUSA 3.40.22 7 Matt Lane USA 3.42.55 8 Andrew Walker Newbridge3.45.24 9 Grant CremerAustralia3.45.24 10 Shadrock Korir Kenya3.45.52 11 Phil Tedd GB 3.45.70 12 Adam Zawadski England 3.45.98 13 Donald Naylor Wales3.46.90 14 Lee Willis USA 3.47.72 15 Conor Sweeney Ireland 3.49.58 16 Vince WilsonEngland 3.53.45 17 Derek WatsonScotland 3.55.36 18 Robert KibetKenyaDNF Men 5000m James GetanaKenya 13.37.771 Mike Openshaw England 13.37.862 Khoudir Aggoune Algeria 13.37.963 Michael Power Australia 13.39.534 George Okworu Kenya Clonliffe 13.45.585 Matt O Dowd England 13.50.676 Takashi Maeda Japan 13.55.637 Keith Kelly Providence 13.59.608 Peter Matthews Ireland 14.02.329 Kenji Noguchi Japan 14.03.0910 Daisuke IsomatsuJapan 14.05.6211 Fiachra Lombard Leevale 14.09.2012 Toshiaki Tezura Japan 14.14.0013 Glenn Stewart GB 14.15.1914 Cormac SmythClonliffe 14.18.7015 Noel Berkeley Ireland 14.23.7 (h) 16 Men Pole Vault Tim Thomas Wales5.301 Paul Williamson England 5.102 Leigh WalkerGB 4.803 Christian Linskey England 4.803 Rory O BrianIreland 4.105 Ronan CurranWest Waterford NH Men High Jump Martin Stauffer Switzerland 2.171 Germaine Mason Jamaica 2.172 Daniel Turner England 2.143 Antoine Burke Ireland 2.104 James Russell England 2.105 Adrian O Dwyer Ireland 12.106 Men Javelin Terry McHughIreland 77.04 1 Hardus Pienaar RSA 72.29 2 Neil McLellan England 68.05 3 Tim Kitney GB 60.76 4 Nial Tuckey Ireland 57.46 5 David Kelly Kilcoole AC 53.77 6 Leon
Re: t-and-f: Re: Liars Club
on 7/7/01 8:33 PM, Edward Koch at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Frank Shorter is quoted in the novel Once a Runner as having said that everybody ran 4:30 in high school. Does anyone know who said it first? Ed Koch -Original Message- From: The Barretts [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Friday, July 06, 2001 2:30 PM Subject: t-and-f: Re: Liars Club Yeah, right. First, he's contradicting BR, who said everyone ran 4:30 in high school. Second, he was baiting you. Top 10 possible responses: 10) Barefoot, uphill, into the wind? 9) You coulda made a good living as a marathoner... 8) I suppose this was drug aided? Perhaps Lemon-aided? 7) We'll, I ran 4:09 you loser... 6) If that was run in the spring in New England, you could ask for a 11 second deduction now, making you sub-4. : : 1) Was that for 1600m? Oh, right, you're _way_ too old for that one... Ok, I'll keep the day job... Richard Kurt, I had occasion to meet Jack Lemon about 10 years ago and having heard that he was a top New England h. s. miler I asked what he ran for timeHe paused for a second, looked away from me, turned back to me and said Oh about 4.10 I smiled and said that's terrific thanked him for his time and leftLarry Rawson To all, I am correcting myself ... I'm 100% sure now that the 4:30 mile quote comes directly from Marty Liquori ... and he was right, IT DID SEEM that all HS kids could run a 4:30 mile (on cinders) when they were in high school. I know we had 5 kids in the 30's in one season ... but we had NONE at 4:10! TF
t-and-f: Boilermaker Results anyone??
Looking for this mornings Boilermaker race results..if anyone can help me. Their website doesnt have them listed yet. Bob _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
t-and-f: Re: Requiescat In Pace
In a message dated Sun, 8 Jul 2001 12:28:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Kurt Bray [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The 4:10 number came from right here on the list. But I did see several obits that said he set a New England high school record in the two mile. It was merely my wondering what such a mark might be that set off this whole thread. I did not mean it to end up trashing the memory of a man recently dead. I've never quite understood the predilection people have for giving free passes on BS when somebody dies. When I go, can I use my mulligan for something meaningful like a Nobel Prize? But seriously, here's an interesting wrinkle to the whole Lemmon file. Now that somebody came up with a graduation date,I checked old HS State meet records. There's nobody from Phillips listed in the 1943 Mass meet, but perhaps that's because he was an ineligible post-HS grad at a prep school? But here's the interesting part: in those days the longest distance run in the state meet was the 880! No mile, let alone a deuce! The winner of the '43 race ran a blistering 2:03.6. The NCAA Guide for that year lists results of 24 state meets, NONE of which ran a 2M. The fastest prep time of the year was 4:21.4 for Roland Sink (South Pasadena, Ca). There are 8 times listed on the honor roll (which Jack Shepard would probably find rather incomplete), with the last time on the list being 4:32.1. Obviously, not everybody ran 4:30 in those days. gh
t-and-f: Whatever happened to...
Karl Paranya? Brian McGuire
Re: t-and-f: Boilermaker Results anyone??
In a message dated 7/8/01 11:42:37 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Their website doesnt have them listed yet. What would you expect? Everyone's still at the brewery, pounding down free suds. Jim Gerweck Running Times
Re: t-and-f: Re: Requiescat In Pace
I just sent a note to Walt Murphy. I have been monitoring this thread. I plan to get to The Academy this week to check things further. However, please remember, back in those years the Prep Schools kept their own set of records, apart from the high schools. If he set some type of record in the mile/two-mile, it most likely would have been a New England Prep Record, and not a high school record. At least that's how I envision it being reported in the newspapers. Larry Newman Sr. New England Correspondent TF News
Re: t-and-f: TV summer
In a message dated Sat, 7 Jul 2001 6:04:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Phil Weishaar [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Last big meet I was at was Oly Trails in Atlanta so this may not be new but I always get a kick out of watching the Euro meets and others and see what new tech devices someone comes up with. At Paris I saw this little remote control device come on the screen when they were showing the womens hammer winning throw. The device I guess is used to carry the implement back to cage. Obviously it is too much effort for someone to actually carry the hammer back so we build a battlebot (i love that show) device to deliver it. BTW, is anyone better at interviews than Lewis Johnson? Lewis Johnson is good, but Steve Cram, on BBC radio, is one of the best I've heard. Knows the sport very well. Probably went through so many interviews in his own day, he knows which questions should (and more importantly) and should not be asked. sideshow
RE: t-and-f: Re: Requiescat In Pace
But here's the interesting part: in those days the longest distance run in the state meet was the 880! No mile, let alone a deuce! It is possible that a layman would use the term 2-mile run to refer to a cross country race, which may indeed have been at that distance. -- Andy __ Andrew Fitzhugh[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: t-and-f: Re: Requiescat In Pace
Is it even clear that Lemon attended Phillips Exeter (Exeter, NH) or Phillips Andover (Andover, MA)? Many confuse the two. And does either school compete in their respective PUBLIC schools State Championships? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 12:26 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: Re: Requiescat In Pace In a message dated Sun, 8 Jul 2001 12:28:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Kurt Bray [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The 4:10 number came from right here on the list. But I did see several obits that said he set a New England high school record in the two mile. It was merely my wondering what such a mark might be that set off this whole thread. I did not mean it to end up trashing the memory of a man recently dead. I've never quite understood the predilection people have for giving free passes on BS when somebody dies. When I go, can I use my mulligan for something meaningful like a Nobel Prize? But seriously, here's an interesting wrinkle to the whole Lemmon file. Now that somebody came up with a graduation date,I checked old HS State meet records. There's nobody from Phillips listed in the 1943 Mass meet, but perhaps that's because he was an ineligible post-HS grad at a prep school? But here's the interesting part: in those days the longest distance run in the state meet was the 880! No mile, let alone a deuce! The winner of the '43 race ran a blistering 2:03.6. The NCAA Guide for that year lists results of 24 state meets, NONE of which ran a 2M. The fastest prep time of the year was 4:21.4 for Roland Sink (South Pasadena, Ca). There are 8 times listed on the honor roll (which Jack Shepard would probably find rather incomplete), with the last time on the list being 4:32.1. Obviously, not everybody ran 4:30 in those days. gh
RE: t-and-f: Whatever happened to...
Wrong tint in his sunglasses? If so, I'm sure his technicians will correct the problem. He'll be back. malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Brian McGuire Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 12:53 PM To: T n F List Subject: t-and-f: Whatever happened to... Karl Paranya? Brian McGuire
t-and-f: All-comers meet in Provo
The throwing results of the all-comers meet held in Provo on 7-7-01: Men's discus: 1. Niklas Arrhenius 184-8 (56.28); 2. Daniel Arrhenius 170-8 (52.02); 3. Jeremy Burgess 123-9 (37.71). Intermediate discus: 1. Leif Arrhenius 148-0 (45.11); 2. Tyler Herring 137-3 (41.83). Women's discus: Anna Bullock 149-9 (45.64); 2. Noel Pikus 143-0 (43.58) (from the Mountain View HS in Orem, has signed with Utah). Men's Hammer: 1. Matt Holcomb 180-8 (55.06); 2. Tapio Kuusela 152-4 (46.43) Women's Hammer: 1. Grettel Tjiroze 209-2 (63.75) NJR; Anna Bullock 181-11 (55.44); 3. Jenny Patterson 132-7 (40.43). A little improvement of the Jamaican record again by Grettel. Next time she will most likely compete in the Caribbean Games in Guatemala in a couple of weeks. This was the Arrhenius Brothers' final competiton before their Swedish circuit which will already start next week in Halmstad and continuig in Malmo. Tapio KuuselaGet your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Re: t-and-f: Re: Requiescat In Pace
I thought someone mentioned that it was Phillips Andover (MA.) Academy. Phillips Andover does not compete in the Mass. State meet, nor the New England's. I believe the same is true for Phillips Exeter, although I need to double check this. Larry
Re: t-and-f: Re: Requiescat In Pace
Phillips Andover, MA http://www.andover.edu - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 2:56 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Re: Requiescat In Pace I thought someone mentioned that it was Phillips Andover (MA.) Academy. Phillips Andover does not compete in the Mass. State meet, nor the New England's. I believe the same is true for Phillips Exeter, although I need to double check this. Larry
t-and-f: Maccabiah Games pullout
Netters: A story in today's Morris County Record (NJ) reveals that a number of athletes are pulling out of the Maccbiah games because of the current unrest in the Middle East. The story mentioned non NJ track athletes as it stuck pretty much to local people, but we would certainly have a few candidates for the team and have had notable members in past years, among them Gary Williky. Ed Grant
RE: t-and-f: Re: Jack Lemon 1943
Class of 1992 Hafsat Abiola - Nigerian political activist; winner, 1999 Women to Watch award, Association of Women's Development Class of 1988 Chris Bischof - Educator; founder, Eastside College Preparatory School, East Palo Alto, Calif., for disadvantaged students Class of 1986 Patrick J. Kennedy - U.S. Representative, Democrat-Rhode Island Class of 1982 Brian Henson - President, Jim Henson Productions Ming Tsai - Star of the Food Network's East Meets West Class of 1981 Willow Bay- CNN News anchor Class of 1980 Sarah Chayes - Foreign correspondent, National Public Radio Jane Pratt - Editor-in-chief, Jane magazine; author Class of 1979 John F. Kennedy Jr. (d.) - Publisher, George magazine Class of 1978 Stacy Schiff - Pulitzer Prize winner for biography, Vera Robert Smythe - Founder, artistic director, Mum Puppettheatre; 1998 Guggenheim Fellow James Spader - Actor; Best Actor Award, 1989 Cannes Film Festival Class of 1976 Heather White - Founder of Verite, non-profit organization that monitors factory conditions for goods produced by child labor and sweatshops Class of 1975 Jonathan H. Alter - Senior editor/columnist, Newsweek; contributing correspondent, NBC News Ian Baker - Himalayan explorer, Buddhist scholar, photographer, author; discovered Hidden Falls of Tsangpo; named National Geographic Explorer for the Millennium Tom Chapin (d.) - Band leader and composer, The Thomas Chapin Trio; former musical director, Lionel Hampton Band Peter Sellars - Opera, theatre, film director; MacArthur Fellow and Emmy Award winner; former artistic director, Los Angeles Festival and American National Theatre Class of 1974 Dana Delany - Actress, producer; winner of Emmy Awards in 1989 and 1992 for ABC-TV's China Beach Class of 1973 Michael R. Beschloss - Award-winning historian; author; Annenberg senior fellow; director, Annenberg Project on Television and U.S. Foreign Policy. Class of 1972 H.G. Buzzy Bissinger III - Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist; author John Hess - Chairman CEO, Amerada Hess Corp. Toby Lineaweaver - Executive director, Penikese Island School, Cape Cod, Mass., for at-risk boys and juvenile felons Class of 1971 William S. Bill Belichick - Head coach, New England Patriots John Jeb Bush - Governor of Florida Lincoln D. Chafee - U.S. Senator, Republican-Rhode Island Class of 1970 William Ury - Best-selling author, Getting to Yes; international peace negotiator Class of 1969 David B. Ensor - CNN correspondent James Shannon - Former U.S. Representative, Massachusetts; former Massachusetts attorney general Evan Thomas - Assistant managing editor, Newsweek; author, Robert Kennedy: His Life Class of 1967 Julia Alvarez - Critically acclaimed poet, novelist; professor of English, Middlebury College Ann McKeever Hatch - Founder, Oxbow School, Napa Valley, Calif., high school art immersion program; philanthropist; founder, Capp Street Project, San Francisco Class of 1966 William E. Bill Littlefield Jr. - Host of NPR's Only a Game; author Class of 1965 Mary Wilkes Eubanks - Botanist; senior research scientist, Duke University; president, Sun Dance Genetics Jeffrey K. MacNelly (d.) - Creator of Shoe cartoon; editorial cartoonist; winner of two Pulitzer Prizes Class of 1964 George W. Bush - President of the United States Jeffrey Garten - Dean, Yale School of Management Richard A. Wolf - Creator, executive producer, NBC-TV's Law Order, Law Order Special Victims Unit, Wolf Films Class of 1963 Tracy Kidder - Pulitzer Prize-winning author; novelist Class of 1962 Fitzgerald B. Bramwell - Vice president for research and graduate studies, professor of chemistry and biochemistry, University of Kentucky Class of 1961 George Pieczenik - Biochemist in genetic research; associate professor at Rockefeller University Class of 1960 John Darnton - Pulitzer Prize-winning foreign correspondent, New York Times Gen. Barry R. McCaffrey - Director, Office of National Drug Control Policy, Clinton administration W. Bradford Reynolds - Former U.S. assistant attorney general, Reagan administration Class of 1959 Constance Brinckerhoff - Molecular biologist; professor, Dartmouth Medical School; recipient of Merit award from National Institutes of Health William D. Nordhaus - Economist; member of the Council of Economic Advisors, Carter administration Class of 1958 William Hamilton - Syndicated New Yorker cartoonist Nicholas J. Nicholas Jr. - Former president and co-CEO, TIME-Warner, Inc. Class of 1957 Ted Forstmann - Founding general partner, N.Y. investment firm Forstmann Little Co.; co-founder, Children's Scholarship Fund Class of 1956 Frank Converse - Actor A. Bartlet Giamatti (d.) - Former president, Yale University; commissioner of baseball Charles F.C. Ruff (d.) - White House Counsel during Clinton impeachment trial; constitutional lawyer; member of Watergate Special Prosecution Force Class of 1954 Leslie H. Blank Jr. - Award-winning independent
t-and-f: Lost in the fine print of L'Equipe
In the Saturday edition of L'Equipe, it was reported that five random EPO tests were done on middle distance runners at the Paris meeting. No more information was given. I don't recall seeing any information about this protocol in the very large, bulky press kit we were given. Knowing L'Equipe's reputation for being able to ferret out information, I'm rather certain this was something they independently discovered.
Re: t-and-f: Lost in the fine print of L'Equipe
What test does it say was used? The combination of tests used in Sydney? I'm assuming the tests were carried out only on athletes that had agreed beforehand. I doubt very much whether the IAAF would have allowed compulsory EPO testing in one of its Golden League meetings at this early stage. Even if the tests were only used on consenting athletes, if all else is as it seems, I'm surprised the organisers didn't make a big thing of it rather than it only coming out one day after the meeting thanks to the thorough investigative skills of L'Equipe. - Original Message - From: Ed Gordon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TF Bulletin Board [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 8:57 PM Subject: t-and-f: Lost in the fine print of L'Equipe In the Saturday edition of L'Equipe, it was reported that five random EPO tests were done on middle distance runners at the Paris meeting. No more information was given. I don't recall seeing any information about this protocol in the very large, bulky press kit we were given. Knowing L'Equipe's reputation for being able to ferret out information, I'm rather certain this was something they independently discovered.
t-and-f: Record-setting miler to run(and ran) in Utica 15K
"However, Webb will be allowed to start ahead of the general pack of runners - and the confident teenager is not likely to give less than his best in front of the top distance runners in the world. " Similar articles were run in various NY area newspapers. The general media, as usual, has no clue even thoughWebb tried to explain the basicmath to them. From RRW-"Webb finished 138th overall in 54:23 out of 8181 finishers". Note to the non T F media lurkers out there-he's gone faster than that in training and if he would have run itanywhere near his best there would have been a huge hue and cry from anyone who has only a smidgen of T F knowledge. The ongoing participaction dumbing down of our sport continues. http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20010708/2042985.asp
t-and-f: Israeli 65th NC
Selected results of the 1st day (Tel Aviv, July 8): Men 100m A Final (+0.1): Gidon Jablonka 10.43, Zbigniew Tulin 10.43, Alex Porkhomovskiy 10.46, Tommy Kafri 10.52, Konstantin Rurak (Ukr) 10.53, Attila Farkas 10.56, Kfir Golan 10.58; B final (-0.1): Leszek Dyja (Pol) 10.57; Heat 1 (+1.2): Porkhomovskiy 10.46, Rurak 10.47, Tulin 10.49; Heat 2 (+0.7): Jablonka 10.45; Heat 3 (+1.4): Kafri 10.52. 400m: Andriy Tverdostup (Ukr) 46.54, Volodimir Rybalka (Ukr) 46.86, Naor Greene 47.09. 1500m: Zac Ashkenazy (Aus) 3:57.32, Doron Gyat 3:57.39. 110mH (-1.1): Volodimir Bilokin (Ukr) 14.48, Ophir Shmueli 14.70, Philip Feingold 14.72. TJ: Jacek Kazmierowski (Pol) 16.44/+0.6, Avi Tayari 16.42/+0.8. SP: Shai Shalev 17.10, Shahar Mozer 16.22. DT: Lior Peretz 52.41. Women 100m: Aksel Gurcan (Tur) 11.67, Irina Lenskiy 11.77, Yana Manuylova (Ukr) 12.09, Maya Mutola (b. 070883) 12.14. 800m: Olena Rurak (Ukr) 2:05.99, Noah Beitler 2:06.33, Tamara Volkova (Ukr) 2:07.76. 100mH (+1.0): Irina Lenskiy 13.25, Svetlana Gnezdilov 13.42, Tatyana Ledovskaya (Ukr) 13.60. 400mH: Olga Dor 1:00.09, Khen Yahav 1:02.51. HJ: Olga Kurakulin 1.79, Ioulia Farmaka (Cyp) 1.79. PV: Anna Fitidou (Cyp) 3.90 =ACR, Vicki Argoss (b. 090583) 3.55, Olga Kurakulin 3.55. TJ: Lior Gertner 12.91/+0.5 NR, Khagit Salomon (b. 130884) 12.24. DT: April Wiechman (US) 42.18, Yael Dror 40.71. HT: Elena Teloni (Cyp) 57.14 ACR, April Wiechman (US) 54.17, Galit Sehada 33.83. David --- David Eiger The Israeli Athletics Homepage http://eiger.tripod.com/
t-and-f: SF Marathon Results?
Anybody know where results can be found? A.C.
Re: t-and-f: Re: Liars Club
I thought it was Shorter who said it but if everyone ran 4:30 in HS then maybe more than one person later said that everyone ran 4:30 in HS. Tom Derderian - Original Message - From: Tom Fleming [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Edward Koch [EMAIL PROTECTED]; The Barretts [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 7:16 AM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Re: Liars Club on 7/7/01 8:33 PM, Edward Koch at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Frank Shorter is quoted in the novel Once a Runner as having said that everybody ran 4:30 in high school. Does anyone know who said it first? Ed Koch -Original Message- From: The Barretts [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Friday, July 06, 2001 2:30 PM Subject: t-and-f: Re: Liars Club Yeah, right. First, he's contradicting BR, who said everyone ran 4:30 in high school. Second, he was baiting you. Top 10 possible responses: 10) Barefoot, uphill, into the wind? 9) You coulda made a good living as a marathoner... 8) I suppose this was drug aided? Perhaps Lemon-aided? 7) We'll, I ran 4:09 you loser... 6) If that was run in the spring in New England, you could ask for a 11 second deduction now, making you sub-4. : : 1) Was that for 1600m? Oh, right, you're _way_ too old for that one... Ok, I'll keep the day job... Richard Kurt, I had occasion to meet Jack Lemon about 10 years ago and having heard that he was a top New England h. s. miler I asked what he ran for timeHe paused for a second, looked away from me, turned back to me and said Oh about 4.10 I smiled and said that's terrific thanked him for his time and leftLarry Rawson To all, I am correcting myself ... I'm 100% sure now that the 4:30 mile quote comes directly from Marty Liquori ... and he was right, IT DID SEEM that all HS kids could run a 4:30 mile (on cinders) when they were in high school. I know we had 5 kids in the 30's in one season ... but we had NONE at 4:10! TF
Re: t-and-f: Re: Requiescat In Pace
Maybe Lemmon really had the 2 mile record back then precisely because it was an event rarely held in high school competition. Sort of like someone claiming a high school record currently in the 2,000 meters. Ed Koch -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sunday, July 08, 2001 12:32 PM Subject: t-and-f: Re: Requiescat In Pace But seriously, here's an interesting wrinkle to the whole Lemmon file. Now that somebody came up with a graduation date,I checked old HS State meet records. There's nobody from Phillips listed in the 1943 Mass meet, but perhaps that's because he was an ineligible post-HS grad at a prep school? But here's the interesting part: in those days the longest distance run in the state meet was the 880! No mile, let alone a deuce! gh
t-and-f: Webb's UM roommate
To all you US listers out there, while all the media is focussed on Webb and his 15km training runs, this kid is quietly going about his business. Just like another underestimated Canadian, Kevin Sullivan, he broke 4 for the first time with little help and no fanfare at some local meet. Thanks for that George. Wait until he starts doing a little speedwork. Regards, Martin - Original Message - From: george aitkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 8:59 PM Subject: TF sub-four Haven't seen any response to Nathan Brannen's mile performance tonight in Halifax so I thought I'd be the first to do so. Exactly 2 months shy of his 19th birthday, he becomes another teenage sub four runner! The 3:59.85 he ran is the only official result from that event I have seen so far, but is the most significant one obviously. Nathan started his track field carrer at age 9 in a program I run here in Cambridge and as I recall, ran and jumped in every event that we were offering the kids, usually winning them all in the season-ending meet against a team from Saginaw Michigan. Shortly he will be off to much bigger chores in Michigan. From the webcast I could only see that Matt Kerr, Nathan's training partner, was 2nd about 20 metres behind. I'm sure we'll see full results up soon. Good work Nate! George Aitkin _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Re: t-and-f: Re: Requiescat In Pace
Too many disclaimers here: 1. Lemmon ran the 2-mile in a time/place where the 2-mile wasn't run. 2. Lemmon's school didn't participate in the state meet. 3. Lemmon's school didn't participate in some New England championships. What the hell? This is the sort of thing that annoys the hell out of me in our sport. C'mon. Standardized distances; championships for all who qualify. That's how it is at the elite level (usually). Even at the lower levels - in Illinois there are no schools left out of the state meet for high school - doesn't matter whether its public or private. And... there are only 2 classes - big schools and small schools. Now, I'm in Maryland, where the private schools can't compete in the state meet - and despite only 25% the enrollment in high schools that Illinois has - they have FOUR classes. I heard that in Pennsylvania, the Philadelphia schools can't compete in the state meet. Sigh... must be an east coast thing = Dave Cameron [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
t-and-f: WAVA results for July 5 and July 7, 2001
Y ask Y: The folks running the WAVA Brisbane Web site have posted a file of results for July 5 and July 7 that some may not be able to view. So I copy-and-pasted them to the Yahoo groups masterstf mailing list. See results at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/masterstf/message/6279 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/masterstf/message/6278 Ken Stone http://www.masterstrack.com
t-and-f: Re: neglect
Drew, Sorry if the post confused you and/or some others, as that was never the intention. My tone towards Grote is basically because he's nothing but a loud mouth, and he new exactly what I was talking about. He just looks for ways to create problems here and elsewhere. 99% of the list is familiar with my posts and that I am one of the promoters of the RW, Grote just has a chip on his shoulder. MJR
t-and-f: Re: Top NJ HS Milers...WALK or RUN
Grote, Why the gang mentality again? Speak to me if there is a problem, there is no need to bring anyone else into something who is not involved to begin with. As for being defensive, it is only because I find you your comments towards me, and the RW, so offensive without cause other than to artificially inflate your own self worth. Yes, RWing is a different discipline so it cannot be compared to the performance of other great athletes in the way you wish it to be. I never attempted this, but only brought forth names of other promising youngsters who should get exposure. I ,and every other, RWer have no feeling of embarrassment about anything related to the event. We are proud of our event, especially when having to listen to such stupidity of the ignoramuses who can't use any grey matter. As for Zach, as Ed said, he is not my boy and neither is Christina my girl. I have met each of them twice, and they fine young people and athletes who will go far. MJR
t-and-f: My take on 2008: Give it to China
Y ask Y: With inspiration (and quotes) from Ed Parrott, I wrote a column for Sunday editions of my paper on the 2008 Olympic Games host selection. Check out: http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/uniontrib/sun/sports/news_1s8utvoice.html Ken Stone http://www.masterstrack.com
Re: t-and-f: Re: Liars Club
on 7/8/01 7:19 PM, Tom Derderian at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I thought it was Shorter who said it but if everyone ran 4:30 in HS then maybe more than one person later said that everyone ran 4:30 in HS. Tom Derderian - Original Message - From: Tom Fleming [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Edward Koch [EMAIL PROTECTED]; The Barretts [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 7:16 AM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Re: Liars Club No, no, no ... lets get back to the original posting, and end this topic once and for all ... Jack Lemmon said everyone ran 4:30 for the mile ... but I ran 4:10! Have a great week, TF
Re: t-and-f: Record-setting miler to run(and ran) in Utica 15K
In a message dated 07/08/2001 5:12:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Similar articles were run in various NY area newspapers. The general media, as usual, has no clue even though Webb tried to explain the basic math to them. From RRW-"Webb finished 138th overall in 54:23 out of 8181 finishers". Note to the non T F media lurkers out there-he's gone faster than that in training and if he would have run it anywhere near his best there would have been a huge hue and cry from anyone who has only a smidgen of T F knowledge. The ongoing participaction dumbing down of our sport continues. Being a Utican, I take exception to the dumbing down of our sport comment. Utica does an outstanding job. The original article appeared in the Utica paper, the Observer-Dispatch, and it did state that Webb has run 10 miles in the 55 minute range in workouts. I ran a significant portion of the race near him and as a side note Bill Rogers finished with him. Quite a sight running behind the 2 of them, Webb has a very well developed upper body and Bill with his arm swinging across the body. I think that it should be viewed as a positive, just like every thing this kid has done. It adds attention to the sport, which is a good thing. I was at the kids run with my 5 year old nephew (there were 1800 kids, between 4 and 12 running from 1/4 mile to 1 mile) and Alan led our group and then signed the kids shirts, books etc. Many of my non running friends in Utica know who Alan Webb is, know that he broke Jim Ryun's record and were even talking about the fact that he is going to Michigan. I think it was a great idea for the Utica Boilermaker people to bring Alan in for the race, the Hall of Fame induction and the kids races along with Bill Rogers, Frank Shorter, Khalid Kanouchi, Craig Virgin, Alberto Salazar, Bill Dellinger and the 9300 people that ran the 15K, the 850 people that ran the 5K, the 1800 kids in the kids race and the 500 people in the 8K walk. Running did not appear to be a dead sport in Utica this weekend. (yeah, i know it's a road race, but maybe a few of these kids will develop a love of the sport. One girl that ran the mile in 5:17 as a 12 year old talks about one day beating her idol, a local HS female runner named Jackie Kasakowski) A Utican living in Connecticut, Dr.Brian Fullem (4:10 miler in HS, ok it was 4:18, but 15 years ought to be worth 8 seconds)
Re: t-and-f: Re: Jack Lemon 1943
Yes. Actually Class of '42. - Original Message - From: malmo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'DANIEL DEYO' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 3:46 PM Subject: RE: t-and-f: Re: Jack Lemon 1943 Class of 1992 Hafsat Abiola - Nigerian political activist; winner, 1999 Women to Watch award, Association of Women's Development Class of 1988 Chris Bischof - Educator; founder, Eastside College Preparatory School, East Palo Alto, Calif., for disadvantaged students Class of 1986 Patrick J. Kennedy - U.S. Representative, Democrat-Rhode Island Class of 1982 Brian Henson - President, Jim Henson Productions Ming Tsai - Star of the Food Network's East Meets West Class of 1981 Willow Bay- CNN News anchor Class of 1980 Sarah Chayes - Foreign correspondent, National Public Radio Jane Pratt - Editor-in-chief, Jane magazine; author Class of 1979 John F. Kennedy Jr. (d.) - Publisher, George magazine Class of 1978 Stacy Schiff - Pulitzer Prize winner for biography, Vera Robert Smythe - Founder, artistic director, Mum Puppettheatre; 1998 Guggenheim Fellow James Spader - Actor; Best Actor Award, 1989 Cannes Film Festival Class of 1976 Heather White - Founder of Verite, non-profit organization that monitors factory conditions for goods produced by child labor and sweatshops Class of 1975 Jonathan H. Alter - Senior editor/columnist, Newsweek; contributing correspondent, NBC News Ian Baker - Himalayan explorer, Buddhist scholar, photographer, author; discovered Hidden Falls of Tsangpo; named National Geographic Explorer for the Millennium Tom Chapin (d.) - Band leader and composer, The Thomas Chapin Trio; former musical director, Lionel Hampton Band Peter Sellars - Opera, theatre, film director; MacArthur Fellow and Emmy Award winner; former artistic director, Los Angeles Festival and American National Theatre Class of 1974 Dana Delany - Actress, producer; winner of Emmy Awards in 1989 and 1992 for ABC-TV's China Beach Class of 1973 Michael R. Beschloss - Award-winning historian; author; Annenberg senior fellow; director, Annenberg Project on Television and U.S. Foreign Policy. Class of 1972 H.G. Buzzy Bissinger III - Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist; author John Hess - Chairman CEO, Amerada Hess Corp. Toby Lineaweaver - Executive director, Penikese Island School, Cape Cod, Mass., for at-risk boys and juvenile felons Class of 1971 William S. Bill Belichick - Head coach, New England Patriots John Jeb Bush - Governor of Florida Lincoln D. Chafee - U.S. Senator, Republican-Rhode Island Class of 1970 William Ury - Best-selling author, Getting to Yes; international peace negotiator Class of 1969 David B. Ensor - CNN correspondent James Shannon - Former U.S. Representative, Massachusetts; former Massachusetts attorney general Evan Thomas - Assistant managing editor, Newsweek; author, Robert Kennedy: His Life Class of 1967 Julia Alvarez - Critically acclaimed poet, novelist; professor of English, Middlebury College Ann McKeever Hatch - Founder, Oxbow School, Napa Valley, Calif., high school art immersion program; philanthropist; founder, Capp Street Project, San Francisco Class of 1966 William E. Bill Littlefield Jr. - Host of NPR's Only a Game; author Class of 1965 Mary Wilkes Eubanks - Botanist; senior research scientist, Duke University; president, Sun Dance Genetics Jeffrey K. MacNelly (d.) - Creator of Shoe cartoon; editorial cartoonist; winner of two Pulitzer Prizes Class of 1964 George W. Bush - President of the United States Jeffrey Garten - Dean, Yale School of Management Richard A. Wolf - Creator, executive producer, NBC-TV's Law Order, Law Order Special Victims Unit, Wolf Films Class of 1963 Tracy Kidder - Pulitzer Prize-winning author; novelist Class of 1962 Fitzgerald B. Bramwell - Vice president for research and graduate studies, professor of chemistry and biochemistry, University of Kentucky Class of 1961 George Pieczenik - Biochemist in genetic research; associate professor at Rockefeller University Class of 1960 John Darnton - Pulitzer Prize-winning foreign correspondent, New York Times Gen. Barry R. McCaffrey - Director, Office of National Drug Control Policy, Clinton administration W. Bradford Reynolds - Former U.S. assistant attorney general, Reagan administration Class of 1959 Constance Brinckerhoff - Molecular biologist; professor, Dartmouth Medical School; recipient of Merit award from National Institutes of Health William D. Nordhaus - Economist; member of the Council of Economic Advisors, Carter administration Class of 1958 William Hamilton - Syndicated New Yorker cartoonist Nicholas J. Nicholas Jr. - Former president and co-CEO, TIME-Warner, Inc. Class of 1957 Ted Forstmann - Founding general partner, N.Y. investment firm Forstmann Little Co.; co-founder, Children's Scholarship Fund Class of 1956 Frank
t-and-f: Carroll does not let locals down
THE IRISH TIMES Monday, July 9, 2001 The middle distance events provided the highlight of the Bupa-sponsored Cork City Sports at the CIT on Saturday. Fittingly, local hero Mark Carroll captured the 1,500m title, fending off the challenges of Australian Craig Mottram and Ugandan Julius Achon in an exciting finish. Adopted Cork woman Freda Davoren, originally from Causeway in Co Kerry, ensured a memorable 50th anniversary of the meet by storming to one of the best victories of her career in a high quality 1,500m field. Although the strong wind blew away Carroll's prospects of setting a new Irish record and beating Ray Flynn's nine-year-old mark of 3.33.5, the winner was thrilled with his victory in a time of 3.38.76. I used the crowd to my advantage. They just got me over the line. I feel very strong at the moment, but I need to do a lot more speed work to get me through the Grand Prix circuit, he said. Carroll, who holds Irish records at 10,000m, 5,000m and 3,000m, was timed at 2 mins, 42 secs at the bell and ran the last 400 metres in some 56 seconds. The victory meant a lot to Carroll, who punched the air with delight after crossing the line. Carroll heads for Stockholm tomorrow and Oslo on Friday with his confidence boosted. Davoren followed up victories in Latvia and Dublin recently with a fine tactical run. She was up the front runners throughout and timed her kick to perfection around the final bend to win in 4:15.62, just shading Australian Georgia Clark, who ran in the Sydney Olympics. I knew she was coming at me, but the crowd willed me home at the finish. I am thrilled with the victory, she said. Terry McHugh believes he's well placed to make the qualifying standard of 80.50m in the national championships to earn a place in World Championships in Canada after his second longest throw of the season, just over 77 metres. Schools' 1,500m champion, Liam Reale from Limerick, was an all-the-way winner in the junior race over the same distance, underlining his standing as one of the most promising athletes in the country. Eamonn Condon www.RunnersGoal.com
t-and-f: 4:20 Milers
At my high school, (San Rafael High) we were all a bunch of 420 milers...of course this was in the mid-70s. Brian McGuire
Re:t-and-f: Stoned on Schwald (fwd)
I figured that the easiest way to put an end to this debate was to simply email Sarah herself and ask; here's her response: Sarah Schwald wrote Please feel free to tell anyone interested that my name is pronounced just as it is spelled. Or phonetically...Sh wald. Take care, Sarah Mike Scott Vice Chair/Secretary, USATF Cross Country Council Clubs Coordinator, Team USA Distance Running Coordinator, CanAm High Performance Distance Circuit [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://miscott.home.att.net/
