t-and-f: USATF Entries
Perusing the declared entries, note that McMullen and Krummenacker are running the 800 instead of the 1500, Deal, Croghan, and James are making comebacks, and Cantwell has scratched (he strained his wrist in a meet before NCAA). -- Wayne T. Armbrust, Ph.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Computomarx 3604 Grant Ct. Columbia MO 65203-5800 USA (573) 445-6675 (voice & FAX) http://www.Computomarx.com "Know the difference between right and wrong... Always give your best effort... Treat others the way you'd like to be treated..." - Coach Bill Sudeck (1926-2000)
RE: t-and-f: Hootie IV
i can't say for certain as they will have to be determined by the steering committee of FBU. if i were you, i'd take my chances as they can be very forgiving at times. toby From: "Chapman, Robert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'toby -'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: Hootie IV Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 09:51:01 -0500 <> If I show up with a CAN on Pabst Blue Ribbon, could I still get in, or would I have to bandit? ;) _ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com
Re: t-and-f: Marla in NYC Marathon
> I expect better than this from you, Benji. Is it ignorance, cynicism or a > failed attempt at humor? I forgot the (;-). It is an attempt at humor, but also at attempt to show my future anger at commentators who will miss the point of Runyan in the race and make it about her "disability". bd -- Benji Durden [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: t-and-f: Marla in NYC Marathon
I understand Benji's humor and point. If you put glasses on any runner rendering the eyesight like Marla's that runner would run the same road or track times as without the vision impairment. That term I just used, vision impairment, is less deceiving than the enhancing adjective "legally" preceeding the word "blind". The fact is that she has "illegal" vision so she would be arrested for trying to drive a car! I share Benji's dread that we are going to hear more about Marla's eyes than her legs. Tom Derderian - Original Message - From: "Benji Durden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "t&f list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 6:06 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Marla in NYC Marathon > > I expect better than this from you, Benji. Is it ignorance, cynicism or a > > failed attempt at humor? > > I forgot the (;-). It is an attempt at humor, but also at attempt to show my > future anger at commentators who will miss the point of Runyan in the race > and make it about her "disability". > bd > -- > Benji Durden > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >
Re: t-and-f: American distance running & walking
I was probably being too harsh if I was inferring that walking coaches are unqualified, and yes, I agree distance runners can learn from walking coaches, as well as coaches from other disciplines. However, the issue that was raised by Wayne Armbrust (and perhaps we got off topic) was that somehow the Venue distance running clinic was losing a substantial amount by being scheduled at the same time as the 20k walking championship in which Curt Clausen was competing. I took Wayne's insinuation to be that (1) we should all be interested in the walks and (2) that Clausen's performances were comparably better than other distance athletes' performances over the last 15 years solely because he medaled at the World Champs. I disagree with both premises in that I find the walks a preposterous event in which we measure "who can whisper the loudest" (and we all can see substantial cheating on technique with much more clarity than the use of drugs that raises so much controversy on this list--even Clausen has been caught on film lifting in a race that he was not DQ'd), and that the pool of athletes from which walkers are drawn is simply not as large or able as that of distance runners in general. The example of the Russian woman walker Ivanova as a top marathoner is so notable because it is the great exception to the rule, not that it's somehow representative of walkers in general. It's akin to saying Henry Rono was a great steeplechaser because of his hurdling technique (which is of course absolutely wrong). (I do understand statistical methods for comparisons and I would look at the statistical link you mention to see if his methods are valid.) When we see top Kenyan race walkers, then I may change my opinion, but I doubt we'll ever see that occur. Until then, I don't think that Curt Clausen or his coach deserve special treatment or adoration from distance runners and their coaches. Scheduling conflicts will always occur, and I don't see this one as especially egregious. RMc At 07:55 PM 6/19/2002 -0400, Michael Rohl wrote: >netters > >My last post on this simply because it isn't worth the time. > >But, to be clear, the point I have been making is that I think there might be >something to be learned from the walks by American Distance Runners. >You have yet to argue that point or discuss training methods. I even did go >into some detail about the issues. But you didn't respond. Sad. > >I really don't care if you like the walks or not. Really. But if you >want to >talk training methods or compare sports then you should at least acknowledge >that I have the back ground to do so and stay on topic. You maybe be able to >bait others but you won't me. > >Here is an example of how a walker trains for VO2 max improvement. >8*1000m in 3:40 -3:45 with two minutes rest. Not that much different then a >runner doing 1200's at 5k pace. Only the walker is aware of his stride rate, >in the U.S. the runners and coaches are not. Walkers are also aware of where >the majority of their stride length is. Both are factor in performance and >those factors effect runners as well. > >Should I continue or will you try to insult me some more? > >Oh and I didn't make up the study nor do I pretend to understand something i >don't. All I remember was some on posted the link to the list. It was a guy >from Canada and it was pretty interesting.
t-and-f: Sacto priced out of 2007 world masters meet
Y ask: USATF Masters Chairman George Mathews has informed us that Sacramento has opted not to bid for the 2007 world masters athletic championships in the wake of a sudden WMA Council decision to charge bid cities $150,000 each. Full report is at: http://www.masterstrack.com/news2002/news2002june20a.html I have only the bare bones of the story now, but I'm looking for reaction from athletes and masters officials -- and further explanation from WMA itself. Ken Stone http://www.masterstrack.com
Re: t-and-f: American distance running & walking
> I disagree with both premises in that I find the walks a preposterous event > in which we measure "who can whisper the loudest" (and we all can see > substantial cheating on technique with much more clarity than the use of > drugs that raises so much controversy on this list--even Clausen has been > caught on film lifting in a race that he was not DQ'd), With all due respect, I draw your attention to USATF rule 150-2: "Race Walking is a progression of steps so taken that the walker makes contact with he ground so that no visible (to the human eye) loss of contact occurs." Catching someone on film is not "visible to the human eye". Therefore it is NOT a violation. Furthermore, having done a very small amount of walking myself, I can say that when I am trying to walk fast, it is more difficult than one might think to tell whether I am losing contact or not. I can certainly believe that the elites have a much better sense of this but I also suspect that most disqualification warnings are accidents. Of course, some people "lift" on purpose (ironically enough, doing so probably makes them slower than someone not lifting but using truly superior technique), hoping they can get away with it. It is no different than a sprinter trying to anticipate the start, a pole vaulter trying to get away with voltzing, a basketball player trying to get away with a foul or draw a charge, a long jumper going over the board, or any one of dozens of things that athletes do as part of their sport. One must draw the line somewhere of course, but ultimately we have to rely on officials to disqualify people who violate the rules, intentionally or otherwise. Calling it cheating seems to say more about the person doing the talking than the person doing te walking. A purist might suggest that distance running has none of this questionable behavior; on the other hand I highly doubt that the contact on the European distance circuit is completely accidental. >and that the pool of athletes from which walkers are drawn is simply not as large or able as that of distance runners in general. The example >of the Russian woman walker Ivanova as a top marathoner is so notable because it is the great exception to the rule, not that it's somehow >representative of walkers in general. Certainly there is some truth to this statement, especially when looking only at American walkers. And it is not unreasonable for a fan to value a walking medal less because of it - that is simply a difference of opinion. Personally, I can't see the point in making such distinctions, given the difficulty of getting a medal in either walking or running. > When we see top Kenyan race walkers, then I may change my opinion, but I doubt we'll ever see that occur. Until then, I don't think that >Curt Clausen or his coach deserve special treatment or adoration from distance runners and their coaches. Scheduling conflicts will always >occur, and I don't see this one as especially egregious. Given the importance of technique and the differing muscular needs, there's no reason to conclude that the Kenyans would be as good at race walking as they are at running. I do agree that given the weekend's schedule, the morning was probably the best time to hold the clinic. There are always decisions that have to be made. Personally, I may have to choose to watch the walk instead of go to the clinic, but that's just the way it goes. - Ed Parrot
Re: t-and-f: American distance running & walking
Actually I was referring more to the fact that Pena wouldn't be there than the fact that Clausen would be absent. Pena also, for those of you who aren't aware, coached '96 OG 20k walk champ Jefferson Perez. To rule out the possibility that endurance coaches could not learn from him but could learn from a panel with little if any international success is perhaps indicative of the problem we have developing world class male endurance athletes here. As to the idea that walkers deliberately "cheat" during competition: How often do you need to be told that walkers do not lift on purpose and that judging, to maintain continuity with the past, is judged as seen by the human eye? It is true that some athletes can be seen to be off the ground in still photos or videos viewed frame by frame in events where they are not disqualified. This does not mean that they are "cheating." What it does mean is that they are so low off the ground and for such a short period of time that their "flight phase" cannot be observed by the naked eye. Sometimes in the course of a race of 20 or 50k an athlete will actually get tired, his/her form will break down, and he/she will lose contact (or have a bent knee). This does not mean they are "cheating" either. Sometimes, in trying to win a race, an athlete will push his/her form and commit a violation. This is not "cheating" any more than when a long jumper tries to take off as close to the end of the board as possible and fouls. As stated by Mike Rohl, it is certainly possible for great (and not so great) walkers to walk at a rate of 4 min/km or faster and be in perfect contact. I taped Mike on two occasions, one here in Columbia and the other at Sacramento at the Trials, doing workouts at approximately that pace where he was absolutely in contact, even when the video was examined frame by frame. If you think you have good eyes, come to the men's walk Sunday morning and see if you can see Clausen off the ground. Often walkers are disqualified for loss of contact because, as they tire while trying to maintain the 200+ steps per minute cadence at which they race, they snatch the trailing foot off the ground prematurely, before the advancing heel has made contact. This situation often develops without the athlete realizing it and by my analysis of the video of the Sidney women's 20k was responsible for all of the DQs in that race. I'll see you in Palo Alto. Try to shake off your hangover from Moe's the night before and come to the track at 8:00 am Saturday and Sunday! Richard McCann wrote: > I was probably being too harsh if I was inferring that walking coaches are > unqualified, and yes, I agree distance runners can learn from walking > coaches, as well as coaches from other disciplines. > > However, the issue that was raised by Wayne Armbrust (and perhaps we got > off topic) was that somehow the Venue distance running clinic was losing a > substantial amount by being scheduled at the same time as the 20k walking > championship in which Curt Clausen was competing. I took Wayne's > insinuation to be that (1) we should all be interested in the walks and (2) > that Clausen's performances were comparably better than other distance > athletes' performances over the last 15 years solely because he medaled at > the World Champs. > > I disagree with both premises in that I find the walks a preposterous event > in which we measure "who can whisper the loudest" (and we all can see > substantial cheating on technique with much more clarity than the use of > drugs that raises so much controversy on this list--even Clausen has been > caught on film lifting in a race that he was not DQ'd), and that the pool > of athletes from which walkers are drawn is simply not as large or able as > that of distance runners in general. The example of the Russian woman > walker Ivanova as a top marathoner is so notable because it is the great > exception to the rule, not that it's somehow representative of walkers in > general. It's akin to saying Henry Rono was a great steeplechaser because > of his hurdling technique (which is of course absolutely wrong). (I do > understand statistical methods for comparisons and I would look at the > statistical link you mention to see if his methods are valid.) When we see > top Kenyan race walkers, then I may change my opinion, but I doubt we'll > ever see that occur. Until then, I don't think that Curt Clausen or his > coach deserve special treatment or adoration from distance runners and > their coaches. Scheduling conflicts will always occur, and I don't see > this one as especially egregious. > > RMc > -- Wayne T. Armbrust, Ph.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Computomarx 3604 Grant Ct. Columbia MO 65203-5800 USA (573) 445-6675 (voice & FAX) http://www.Computomarx.com "Know the difference between right and wrong... Always give your best effort... Treat others the way you'd like to be treated..." - Coach Bill Sudeck (1926-2000)
Re: t-and-f: American distance running & walking
Hopefully my last post on this subject: Fitness walkers have no more connection with race walkers than joggers do with Gabrselassie. I don't blame you for not wanting fitness walkers in your race or at least not giving them awards. Judging walkers in a running race is impossible because they usually only pass each judge once and they are hard to pick out from the runners in time. Competitive walkers, if they do walk in a running race, will not care if there are walking awards because they know it is not a meaningful competition. They will enter as if they were runners, walk the race for a workout, and of course beat 75% of the joggers in the race. When walkers want real competition they compete in judged walks. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Rich, > > With all due respect to Mr. Rohl I couldn't have said it > better myself. I usually don't waste any bandwidth > replying to walking issues but your post sums up my > exact feelings regarding the walks. As a race director > for a few road races in Reno I was continually hounded > by the fitness walkers for the same amount of awards and > recognition as the runners. My response was always, "If > you want an award you should run. That's why they call > it a race!" Race walking is an oxymoron and somehow > found it's way into USATF. It has no relevance to track > and field and should have it's own separate organized > association. Curt Clausen is a fine athlete. He trains > hard and is successful within his sport. Comparing him > to elite distance runners however is comparing apples to > oranges. Race walking is difficult and, yes, I know > because I tried it (I lost a bet with my sister at an > all-comers meet). Walking on your hands is hard too and > wouldn't require a judge. > > -Ray > -- Wayne T. Armbrust, Ph.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Computomarx 3604 Grant Ct. Columbia MO 65203-5800 USA (573) 445-6675 (voice & FAX) http://www.Computomarx.com "Know the difference between right and wrong... Always give your best effort... Treat others the way you'd like to be treated..." - Coach Bill Sudeck (1926-2000)
t-and-f: USATF Release: Greene, Montgomery ready for 100m face-off
Contact:Jill M. Geer USATF Director of Communications [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.usatf.org 317-261-0500 x360 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Thursday, June 20, 2002 Greene, Montgomery ready for 100m face-off PALO ALTO, Calif. - At the 2002 USA Outdoor Track & Field Championships Friday through Sunday at Stanford Universitys Cobb Track and Angell Field, an expected packed house likely will be treated to what the track and field world has been waiting for all season a head-to-head showdown between Maurice Greene and Tim Montgomery in the mens 100 meters. Greene and Montgomery were joined by Olympic champion sprinter Marion Jones, the worlds top two shot putters, Kevin Toth and Adam Nelson, four-time U.S. champion and three-time world champion hurdler Allen Johnson, and world junior record holder LaShinda Demus at a USA Track & Field press conference. Jones leads the world in the 100 meters (10.90 seconds) and 200 meters (22.32) and is the heavy favorite to win both events at Stanford. Nelson and Toth will be joined by three-time world champion John Godina for a shot put battle royal. The 1996 Olympic champion, Johnson is the favorite to win his fifth U.S. 110m hurdles crown. Demus, who like Johnson is coached by University of South Carolina head coach Curtis Frye, will run her specialty 400m hurdles at the USA Junior Championships, which are held in conjunction with the Outdoor Championships and serve at the Team USA selection event for the World Junior Championships. Demus recently won the event at the 2002 NCAA Championships as a freshman. Other key athletes competing at Stanford include Olympic champion pole vaulter Stacy Dragila, three-time world 100m hurdles champion Gail Devers, American record holder pole vaulter Jeff Hartwig, Olympic pole vault champ Nick Hysong, Olympic gold medalist 400m hurdler Angelo Taylor, American record-holding distance runner Deena Drossin and 10-time U.S. 1,500m champion Regina Jacobs. While the shot putters have been dominating the field of competition throughout USA Track & Fields 2002 Golden Spike Tour with spectacular head-to-head competition, the mens 100 meters packs a huge buzz of its own. Greene, the three-time world champion, Olympic champion and world record holder, and Montgomery, the reigning U.S. champion and silver medalist behind Greene at the 2001 World Outdoor Championships, have talked all year of racing each other. Until now, it hasnt happened. With Greene having run the 100m only once in 2001, in Athens, and Montgomery not having raced in four weeks, the two may not meet until the mens 100m final at the U.S. Championships. Montgomery has the fastest time in the world this year at 9.94 seconds, but Greene owns the world record at 9.79 seconds and beat Montgomery the last time they raced, at the 2001 World Championships. The time has come, Montgomery said. This year has been a roller-coaster year for me. Instead of going to Athens and taking on Maurice, I just went home and focused on training. As for how a Montgomery-Greene showdown might shape up this weekend, Montgomery said, Im always striving to run faster than I ever have before. And Im hoping that (Greene) is going to run faster than hes ever run before. If everybody crosses the finish line together, god willing, its going to be something fast. Im sure hes not going to let me win; Im sure Im not going to let him win. Greene also is looking forward to a heated competition. My season is just beginning, he said. Im just looking forward to coming out here and putting on a great show. A lot of things have been said this year. Now its time to put it all on the line, see what youve got. Greene and Montgomery wont be alone, however. Four other runners in the 100-meter field have seed times under 10 seconds, including reigning U.S. 200m champion Shawn Crawford (9.95), the worlds fastest 200m man last season Joshua J.J. Johnson (9.95), 2001 USA indoor 200m champion Coby Miller (9.98) and two-time U.S. runner-up Brian Lewis (9.99) having sub-10 seed times. First round action in the mens 100m begins Friday at 5 p.m., with the semifinals scheduled for 7:05 p.m. Finals will be held Saturday at 5:35 p.m. The USA Outdoor Track & Field Championships will be broadcast from 5:30-7 p.m. Eastern Time on Sunday, June 12 on ESPN2. For start lists of the USA Outdoor Track & Field Championships and USA Junior Championships, meet time schedule and other information and news, visit the USATF Web site, www.usatf.org # # #
t-and-f: Riley turning pro
Netters: There is, of course, no copmparison between the decisions of Alan Webb and Jonathan Riley to turn pro. Webb is aborting a promsining college career; Riley is taking the next step after an impressive tour at Stanford. I wish Jonathan nothing but the best; he desrves it. I have two memories of him at the Nationals five years ago in Raleigh when he was involved in one of the most talented HS miles ever run. Before the race, while in the paddock, as the other runners were totally absorbed in their coming race, Jonathan was gazing down at the HJ (just inside the second turn) and joined the fans in appause when the bar was cleared at a 7+ height. Then, when the gun went off the first time, the Travis lad from Louisiana crashed to the track. A recall gun was sounded, but Travis was unable to get up immediately, while the other runners jogged in place awaiting the second start (and one, you can guess who, called out "get him up and get the race started," or words to that effect), Jonathan was on his knees next to Travis, talking to him with unheard, but I'm sure encouraging words. In other words, this kid has class
Re: t-and-f: What is the debate?
At 12:33 PM 6/20/2002 -0700, t-and-f-digest wrote.. >Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 05:29:31 -0400 >From: "Martin J. Dixon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: Re: t-and-f: What is the debate? > >All I'm saying is that the NCAA is not the be all and end all. Case in point: >1:42.47 Yuriy Borzakovskiy RUS 12 04 1981 1 Bruxelles 24 08 2001 >He managed to do the above at an age when he would have just finished his >second year of college. Won't >even get into the African examples. >Regards, >Martin But he also ran 1:44 at age 18, and 1:45 consistently at that age. Webb's not there yet at the same age, so the analogy is not the same. I think Webb's failure to dominate collegiate competition this year indicates its premature for him to be thinking the big thoughts yet about the 1500. I would have liked to see him wait until next year when he might have run 3:31 or something, then moved out. Richard McCann
t-and-f: Re: the walking situation is intolerable!
At 12:33 PM 6/20/2002 -0700, t-and-f-digest wrote.. >How often >do you need to be told that walkers do not lift on purpose and that >judging, to >maintain continuity with the past, is judged as seen by the human eye? It is >true that some athletes can be seen to be off the ground in still photos or >videos viewed frame by frame in events where they are not disqualified. Why do we have an event in T&F where we KNOW that the athletes cannot comply with the rules? We're not figure skating or gymnastics where we can leave such large discretion to the judges. This situation is intolerable for the sport to my way of thinking. I really don't care about whether the human eye is can detect it or not. We went to autotiming and plasticine to limit the influence of human judging on events. If we can't do the same with the walks then they shouldn't be in the sport. This is my last word on the subject. Richard McCann
Re: t-and-f: American distance running & walking
--- "Wayne T. Armbrust" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Actually I was referring more to the fact that Pena wouldn't > be there than the fact that Clausen would be absent. Gee, that sure was obvious from the statement that started this whole thread: "While the clinic is starting the most successful U.S. male endurance athlete in International Competition for the past fifteen years or so in any event beyond 800 meters will be finishing his race. The timing also prevents the attendance/participation of a coach who has actually coached an OG gold medalist in an endurance event." Couldn't have hurt to clarify that earlier on... The "also" piece didn't quite sound like your main point. > To rule out the possibility that endurance coaches could not > learn from him [... but could learn from a panel with little > if any international success is perhaps indicative of the problem > we have developing world class male endurance athletes here.] An unwanted "not" in there perhaps? Dan = http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy T&F @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] <|\/ <^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ [EMAIL PROTECTED] (lifetime forwarding address) / / (503)370-9969 phone/fax __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: Riley turning pro
Riley is out of eligibility at Stanford. He is simply taking the next step and is not leaving school early. >From: "Ed Grant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: "Ed Grant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: "track net" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: t-and-f: Riley turning pro >Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 19:20:53 -0700 > >Netters: > > There is, of course, no copmparison between the decisions of Alan >Webb and Jonathan Riley to turn pro. Webb is aborting a promsining college >career; Riley is taking the next step after an impressive tour at Stanford. > > I wish Jonathan nothing but the best; he desrves it. I have two >memories of him at the Nationals five years ago in Raleigh when he was >involved in one of the most talented HS miles ever run. Before the race, >while in the paddock, as the other runners were totally absorbed in their >coming race, Jonathan was gazing down at the HJ (just inside the second >turn) and joined the fans in appause when the bar was cleared at a 7+ >height. > > Then, when the gun went off the first time, the Travis lad from >Louisiana crashed to the track. A recall gun was sounded, but Travis was >unable to get up immediately, while the other runners jogged in place >awaiting the second start (and one, you can guess who, called out "get him >up and get the race started," or words to that effect), Jonathan was on his >knees next to Travis, talking to him with unheard, but I'm sure encouraging >words. > > In other words, this kid has class > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com.
t-and-f: Re: Question for R.D.s re: race insurance
> I asked the Alabama USATF to sanction the Oak Mountain 50K 2 years ago. They asked about the course, and about emergency services. >I told them (honestly) that runners could be 30 minutes or more from medical attention and that our response to a true emergency was to call >911, with a response time of about 5 to 10 minutes. This wasn't good enough for them, and they refused to sanction the race. Makes me >wonder how they can sanction *any* trail race under similar conditions. I might ask the local running club for help with this and an RRCA >sanction next year. Scott - USATF should not deny a sanction simply for that reason. I should know since I rewrote the USATF sanction rules 3 years ago. Certainly a sanction may be denied because a race refuses to answer questions about safety (believe it or not some races do) or if a 50K did something like provide no water in 100 degree weather (those "no fee no aid no wimps races" wouldn't qualify for a sanction). But I know a number of sanctioned trail races that are a significant distance from medical attention. That is the nature of most trail races, just like impact injuries are not unheard of in the pole vault and occasionally someone gets speared by a javelin. USATF has a responsibility (arguably a legal one according to the Amateur Sports Act of the U.S. Congress) not to discriminate against trail races just because they tend to be held in more remote locations. On the one hand, I am glad the Alabama association asked the safety questions because many local USATF associations just take the money and allow truly unsafe things to occur. with a don't ask don't tell policy. But unless they had some other grounds for denying your sanction, neither a moderately remote location nor reliance on public emrgency services is sufficient to my mind. With your permission, I would like to forward your email to the USATF national office and have them assist you in getting your race sanctioned next year. - Ed Parrot
t-and-f: Webb "going pro"
first of all, "going pro" is probably misleading- I doubt Webb is doing it for the money he could realistically expect in the next year or two. Second, Would anybody have said to Tiger Woods that he needed to stay at Stanford through a full four-year ride? Sure there's a difference- Woods had already won everything in sight. But if he'd stayed at Stanford we'd probably have been deprived of that 'rookie year' 13-stroke win at the Masters (or thereabouts). Hindsight is always perfect- he had no way of being certain he'd be hugely successful when he made the decision to break with the NCAA scene- there was a risk involved. If he'd been unsuccessful the naysayers would be harping about what a bad idea it is to leave college. You want a better example directly from our own sport-in fact a middle-distance racing example? Who fared better- Johnny Gray getting out of NCAA competition at the start, or Michael Granville slugging it out over four years and getting nowhere? Sure there are examples of success and failure both ways- but the Gray / Granville comparison is pretty startling. We'll never know if Gray would have got down to 1:42 and a very long successful career if he'd stayed in college, but it is clear that NOT going to college certainly didn't seem to hurt his progress! So let's give Webb a break, and see if he can follow the Johnny Gray model and become a medal contender at any competition in the world. I look forward to observing from the stands (and the satellite TV dish). RT
t-and-f: USATF Entries
I find the way entries into the US championships are treated at the very least odd. Rules are publicly published, athletes enter and then declare. In one case (Dan OBrien) rules are completely ignored. In another case after athletes declare they seem to be bent severely. In both the case of the Womens Pole Vault and the Womens High Jump two athletes were allowed in that according the rules should not have been. This caused what would have been already large fields (20 each) to be even larger (22 each). I realize that at this (and many other meets) the people that administer the sport are volunteers, but if the sport is to be more professional it seems like it should be administered in a more professional manner. David Donley PS What about that 3rd heat of the mens 100 (Coby Miller, John Drummond, JJ Johnson and Marcus Brunson) all fighting for 2 automatic spots. Should be fun.
Re: t-and-f: Webb "going pro"
Not at all a proper comparison. Tiger and Webb. We are talking whole lot more dollars In a message dated 6/20/2002 8:36:22 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >Would anybody have said to Tiger Woods that he needed to >stay at Stanford through a full four-year ride?
RE: t-and-f: Webb "going pro"
Just curious, But does the name Kobe Bryant come to anyone's mind? (He did it straight out of HS! He did the same thing (yeah, what a stupid move. ;) JMHO, But Scott Radzko got Webb to 3:53. Who is to say Webb will not get better? Hey, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. On the other hand, I consider Webb an exception and would not recommend it to any other athletes. *** Fred Finke, LDR Men's Coach Selection Coordinator --- O Men's Team Leader, World Cross, Morocco, 1998 -- <^_ [EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- \/\ Visit me at: www.Coachnet.net *** -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 11:35 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: Webb "going pro" first of all, "going pro" is probably misleading- I doubt Webb is doing it for the money he could realistically expect in the next year or two. Second, Would anybody have said to Tiger Woods that he needed to stay at Stanford through a full four-year ride? Sure there's a difference- Woods had already won everything in sight. But if he'd stayed at Stanford we'd probably have been deprived of that 'rookie year' 13-stroke win at the Masters (or thereabouts). Hindsight is always perfect- he had no way of being certain he'd be hugely successful when he made the decision to break with the NCAA scene- there was a risk involved. If he'd been unsuccessful the naysayers would be harping about what a bad idea it is to leave college. You want a better example directly from our own sport-in fact a middle-distance racing example? Who fared better- Johnny Gray getting out of NCAA competition at the start, or Michael Granville slugging it out over four years and getting nowhere? Sure there are examples of success and failure both ways- but the Gray / Granville comparison is pretty startling. We'll never know if Gray would have got down to 1:42 and a very long successful career if he'd stayed in college, but it is clear that NOT going to college certainly didn't seem to hurt his progress! So let's give Webb a break, and see if he can follow the Johnny Gray model and become a medal contender at any competition in the world. I look forward to observing from the stands (and the satellite TV dish). RT
t-and-f: USATF Release: Burrell, Pappas win U.S. titles
Contact:Tom Surber Media Information Manager USA Track & Field (317) 261-0500 x317 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.usatf.org FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Thursday, June 20, 2002 Burrell, Pappas win U.S. Titles BERKELEY, California - Tom Pappas and Shelia Burrell both set stadium records in winning the U.S decathlon and heptathlon titles Thursday at the 2002 USA Outdoor Track & Field Championships at the University of California's Edward Stadium/Goldman Field in Berkeley, California. A new personal record in the long jump propelled 1999 U.S. champion Shelia Burrell to her second national heptathlon title with a total of 6,299 points, which shattered the previous Edwards Stadium record of 5,989 points by Kelly Blair in 1993. Burrell, who won the bronze medal at the 2001 World Outdoor Championships in Edmonton, jumped 6.57 meters/21 feet, 6.75 inches in the long jump to extend her lead over two-time defending national champion and 2000 Olympian DeDee Nathan (5,995 points). Burrell's previous PR in the long jump was 6.46m/21-2.50. Other top finishers included Kim Schiemenz (3rd-5,840 points), Virginia Mille (4th-5,821 points) and Meredith Davis (5th-5,594 points). Burrell, who posted the best heptathlon score in the world this season earlier this month in Gotzis (6,363 points), equaled the second-best performance in the world this year with her two-day total of 6,299 points. Germany's Sabine Braum tallied 6,299 points at the meet in Gotzis. "I'm really pleased with my long jump because that's a PR for me," said Burrell. "I wanted to jump at least 6.50 meters, so I'm real happy. My intention, no matter what, is to be the next great American heptathlete. This was another stepping stone for good things to come. My goal is to be the best in the world next year. Come 2004 I'm making a run for it. This is another win that counts. I'm going to Hawaii for a vacation in Maui in August as a reward for myself." Nathan, who placed seventh at last year's World Championships (6,073 points), said her runner-up performance had its good and bad moments. "This performance is not what I would've liked to have," Nathan said. "I was better in some events than I thought I'd be, but other things could've been a lot better. I was not pleased with my long jump today (6.08m/19-11.50), which is usually one of my better events." Tom Pappas won his second U.S. decathlon title going away with a total of 8,398 points, with runner-up Bryan Clay finishing with 8,230 points. Pappas set a personal best with 8,583 points in Gotzis earlier this month. After winning the 2000 Olympic Trials, Pappas placed fifth at the Olympics in Sydney with 8,425 points. He ended the 2001 season with a bronze medal at the Goodwill Games in Brisbane, Australia, and entered the 2002 season ranked #1 in the U.S. and #10 in the world by Track & Field News. "You can never be disappointed with a win, but my scores were not a good indication of what I was ready for," said Pappas. "Competing in Gotzis two weeks ago was a great meet that I had, and I thought I could do better than that here. Whether or not my legs are still tired from that trip, I don't know. I made a lot of mental mistakes and technically it wasn't there. I think the physical part was pretty good." Pappas' two-day total of 8,398 points, the seventh best in the world this year, betters the Edwards Stadium record of 7,698 points by Russ Hodge in 1971. The 1999 USA Junior decathlon champion, Azusa Pacific's Bryan Clay finished second with a new personal best of 8,230 points (previous PR 8,169 points in 2001) after placing third at last year's Championships in Eugene. "Today was a lot of fun," Clay said. "I threw the discus really well and set a PR in the hurdles (13.96 seconds). I threw a lot better in the javelin (58.42m/191-8) than I expected because my elbow has been hurting. In fact, this is the first time this year that I've thrown the javelin so I'm excited about that." Other top finishers in the decathlon included 2001 U.S. Nationals runner-up Phil McMullen (3rd-7,934 points), last year's fourth-place finisher at Nationals, Chad Smith (4th-7,914 points) and Stephen Moore (5th-7,793), who was sixth last year. 1996 Olympic gold medalist and American record holder Dan O'Brien led the field in two events today by throwing the discus 53.60 meters/175 feet, 10 inches, and the javelin 64.47m/211-6. The 35-year-old O'Brien, hampered by a sore left foot, which kept him from competing in the 400 meters yesterday, did not compete in today's final event, the 1,500 meters. "It's a work in progress and that's the way we approached it today," said O'Brien. "My coach said that if I plan on competing later this summer, which I definitely am, I had to get some work in. I'm encouraged after what I did in the discus, and if you throw in some average marks in the 400 and 1,500, then I'm probably well over
Re: t-and-f: Webb "going pro"
But, I believe Kobe played under 15 minutes per game his first year with the Lakers. We'll never know, but would he have been better prepared for the NBA if he had played two years of college like some other kid named Mike? Also, Tiger was one of the best in the world, and he and Kobe got multi million dollar contracts. Webb's best time ranked him as the 78th??? 1500m guy. He'll probably reach that sub-3:30 in the next few years. But why take the sink-or-swim approach when a university with a coach with proven credentials was willing to pay for his training and travel to competition, and also pick up the tab for his education? I think one more year of college running would have done wonders for his development - above as well as below his shoulders. Two years of college seemed to work well for Carl Lewis. Fred Finke wrote: > Just curious, But does the name Kobe Bryant come to anyone's mind? (He did > it straight out of HS! He did the same thing (yeah, what a stupid move. ;) > > JMHO, But Scott Radzko got Webb to 3:53. Who is to say Webb will not get > better? Hey, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. > > On the other hand, I consider Webb an exception and would not recommend it > to any other athletes. > > *** > Fred Finke, LDR Men's Coach Selection Coordinator >--- O Men's Team Leader, World Cross, Morocco, 1998 >-- <^_ [EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -- \/\ Visit me at: www.Coachnet.net > *** > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 11:35 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: t-and-f: Webb "going pro" > > first of all, "going pro" is probably misleading- I doubt > Webb is doing it for the money he could realistically expect > in the next year or two. > > Second, > > Would anybody have said to Tiger Woods that he needed to > stay at Stanford through a full four-year ride? > Sure there's a difference- Woods had already won everything in sight. > But if he'd stayed at Stanford we'd probably have been deprived > of that 'rookie year' 13-stroke win at the Masters (or thereabouts). > Hindsight is always perfect- he had no way of being certain > he'd be hugely successful when he made the decision to break > with the NCAA scene- there was a risk involved. If he'd been > unsuccessful the naysayers would be harping about what a bad > idea it is to leave college. > > You want a better example directly from our own sport-in fact a > middle-distance racing example? > Who fared better- Johnny Gray getting out of NCAA competition at > the start, or Michael Granville slugging it out over four years > and getting nowhere? > Sure there are examples of success and failure both ways- > but the Gray / Granville comparison is pretty startling. > > We'll never know if Gray would have got down to 1:42 and a very > long successful career if he'd stayed in college, but it is clear > that NOT going to college certainly didn't seem to hurt his progress! > > So let's give Webb a break, and see if he can follow the Johnny > Gray model and become a medal contender at any competition in > the world. I look forward to observing from the stands (and the > satellite TV dish). > > RT
