t-and-f: A six month suspension? PICK ME!!!

[malmo]

This is getting ridiculous. A six month suspension? Oh yeah, that'll do
the trick. While you're at it, suspend their phone privileges and send
them to bed without ice cream.

malmo

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of ghill
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 7:34 PM
To: track list
Subject: Re: t-and-f: Euro meet directors threaten to go nuclear




> From: "malmo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 14:59:43 -0500
> To: "'ghill'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "'track list'" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: RE: t-and-f: Euro meet directors threaten to go nuclear
> 
> Read you load and clear: because pro football is doing it we should 
> too? Because rock stars are dying of heroin overdoses and they're 
> still popular, the problem isn't the heroin it's how the fan magazines

> are handling it? >

OK George, you've earned your PhD in Spin Doctor with a Masters in
hyperbole. That's not remotely what I was saying, and I think you know
it.

I'm saying that the pro leagues, while they are abysmally deficient in
the testing department (and should be ashamed of themselves) at least
have the right idea when it comes to punishment; punishments that fit
the crime as the general public (as opposed to hysterical people on
track lists) sees it.

Track is handing out armed robbery sentences to shoplifters. As a
result, the public perception is that we're the dirty guys when we're
not.

The solution? JUST OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD (not to be confused with a
T&FN position statement, or even a position I'll defend a week from
now):

For a steroid positive, six months for first offense. Second offense,
lifetime ban, with the added penalty of removal of your name from all
IAAF/IOC records/results. Brutally punish the stupid for being truly
stupid. There will be few of those.

Aside from the punishment fitting the crime, there's the added benefit
that a lesser first penalty will reduce the amount of time a case spends
being flogged by the media.

Think of it in death-penalty terms (a criminal process I'm all in favor
of, for those of you who think of me as some died-in-the-wool
do-gooder). Give somebody the death penalty and he fight and appeals and
appeals and appeals and appeals.. takes forever to finish off. A
2-year sentence is close to that in track terms. So an athlete too often
feels he has no choice but to fight it, fight it, fight it.

Cut the first penalty to 6 months and I predict that just about
everybody will simply accept the punishment. Case closed, no ongoing
court battles, no friggin' arbitration. And very few have ever been dumb
enough to get caught twice.

gh

Re: t-and-f: Francis fesses up at last

[Ed and Dana Parrot]

I have largely kept silent on this issue but this release from Francis is a
bit much.  I hold no illusions that Francis is any less guilty than any
number of other coaches who have not been "caught".  Nor do I believe there
is anything against the rules or unethical about Marion and Tim being
coached by him.  There has been and will continue to be fallout from the
perception that this relationship generates and if meet promoters want to
value their participation less or not at all because of it, that is their
right as well.  I tend to agree with gh about how we shoot ourselves in the
foot (actually slightly closer to vital organs) with how we deal with the PR
of drug testing, but the fact remains that the Jones/Montgomery/Francis
relationship is guaranteed to get negative press and hurt the perception of
the sport, however much we wish that weren't the case.

However, as Martin points out, the latest Francis statement smacks of legal
ass-covering and is in fact a blatent lie.  There is no way that someone who
has coached world class athletes and who said in his book (paraphrasing
here) that drugs were required for his world class athletes to succeed can
possibly say he doesn't condone or encourage drug use.  This kind of
distinction would have made a certain former U.S. president proud, but it
doesn't pass the laugh test.

Sadly, this latest salvo just makes us all the more ridiculous in the eyes
of the world - at least those who even bother to pay attention to track.

- Ed




- Original Message -
From: "Martin J. Dixon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 9:49 PM
Subject: Re: t-and-f: Francis fesses up at last


> Ok, I'll say it before anyone else does. This has his lawyer's
fingerprints all over it. When he says "I have not encouraged nor condoned
the taking of banned performance-enhancing substances by any of the athletes
who have consulted me", he has carefully left out whether any of them were
actually
> taking banned substances. He learned from the last go around. Better to
maintain the current code of silence.
> Regards,
> Martin
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > Y ask:
> >
> > Reuters just spilled these beans:
> >
> > TORONTO, Jan 31 (Reuters) -- Suspended Canadian coach Charlie Francis
has confirmed he is working with triple Olympic champion Marion Jones and
100 metres world record holder Tim Montgomery.
> >
> > But Francis, the mastermind behind Canadian Ben Johnson's drug-fuelled
run for gold at the 1988 Olympics, said in a statement on Friday: "Over the
past 15 years I have not encouraged nor condoned the taking of banned
performance-enhancing substances by any of the athletes who have consulted
me.
> >
> > "This will continue to be an integral part of my practice in the
future."
> >
> > Francis said the fact that Jones and Montgomery chose to work with him
was evidence enough the two Americans did not use banned substances.
> >
> > "The professional and personal relationship which has developed amongst
Tim, Marion and myself has been most gratifying," said Francis, who can work
with other athletes even though a lifetime ban prevents him from coaching
Canada's national team.
> >
> > "The fact that Tim and Marion sought me out as their consultant, knowing
that they would be subjected to increased public scrutiny as a result,
speaks volumes for their personal integrity and human decency.
> >
> > "Their actions should put to rest any suggestion that they sought my
assistance for anything other than the technical training that I could
provide," said Francis.
> >
> > "To any rational observer, their deliberate choice of me as their
consultant should be sufficient evidence that they do not use banned
substances, since by their mere association with me they knew that they
would be subjected to public scrutiny and
> > unjustified cynicism.
> >
> > "It is regrettable that outstanding athletes and fine human beings such
as Marion Jones and Tim Montgomery are being publicly vilified because of
their association with me.
> >
> > "I am saddened that Tim and Marion have had to endure not only
controversy, but also criticism and erroneous statements regarding our
relationship."
> >
> > Me again:
> >
> > You could have said this back in mid-December when the story broke,
Charlie. Why so long to come clean?
> >
> > Ken Stone
>
> --
> Regards,
>
>
> Martin
>
>
> Martin J. Dixon, B. Math. (Hons), C.A., Partner
> Millard, Rouse & Rosebrugh LLP
> Chartered Accountants
> P.O. Box 367
> 96 Nelson Street
> Brantford, Ontario
> N3T 5N3
> Direct Dial: (519) 759-3708 Ext. 231
> Telephone: (519) 759-3511
> Private Facsimile: (519) 759-8548
> E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Web site: www.millards.com
> Practice Areas: www.millards.com/htm/profs/m_mjdixo.htm
>
>
> IMPORTANT NOTICE:
> This email may be confidential, may be legally privileged, and is for
> the intended recipient only.  Access, disclosure, copying, distribution
> or reliance on any of it by any

Re: t-and-f: Francis fesses up at last

[koala]

>Ok, I'll say it before anyone else does. This has his lawyer's fingerprints all over 
>it. When he says "I have not encouraged nor condoned the taking of banned 
>performance-enhancing substances by any of the athletes who have consulted me", he 
>has carefully left out whether any of them were actually
>taking banned substances. He learned from the last go around. Better to maintain the 
>current code of silence.

"Let me say this just once, I did NOT have sex with that woman!"

"I AM NOT a crook!"

"The entire world knows that we Iraqis have neither the means
nor motive to produce weapons of mass destruction!"

Re: t-and-f: Francis fesses up at last

[Martin J. Dixon]

Ok, I'll say it before anyone else does. This has his lawyer's fingerprints all over 
it. When he says "I have not encouraged nor condoned the taking of banned 
performance-enhancing substances by any of the athletes who have consulted me", he has 
carefully left out whether any of them were actually
taking banned substances. He learned from the last go around. Better to maintain the 
current code of silence.
Regards,
Martin

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Y ask:
>
> Reuters just spilled these beans:
>
> TORONTO, Jan 31 (Reuters) -- Suspended Canadian coach Charlie Francis has confirmed 
>he is working with triple Olympic champion Marion Jones and 100 metres world record 
>holder Tim Montgomery.
>
> But Francis, the mastermind behind Canadian Ben Johnson's drug-fuelled run for gold 
>at the 1988 Olympics, said in a statement on Friday: "Over the past 15 years I have 
>not encouraged nor condoned the taking of banned performance-enhancing substances by 
>any of the athletes who have consulted me.
>
> "This will continue to be an integral part of my practice in the future."
>
> Francis said the fact that Jones and Montgomery chose to work with him was evidence 
>enough the two Americans did not use banned substances.
>
> "The professional and personal relationship which has developed amongst Tim, Marion 
>and myself has been most gratifying," said Francis, who can work with other athletes 
>even though a lifetime ban prevents him from coaching Canada's national team.
>
> "The fact that Tim and Marion sought me out as their consultant, knowing that they 
>would be subjected to increased public scrutiny as a result, speaks volumes for their 
>personal integrity and human decency.
>
> "Their actions should put to rest any suggestion that they sought my assistance for 
>anything other than the technical training that I could provide," said Francis.
>
> "To any rational observer, their deliberate choice of me as their consultant should 
>be sufficient evidence that they do not use banned substances, since by their mere 
>association with me they knew that they would be subjected to public scrutiny and
> unjustified cynicism.
>
> "It is regrettable that outstanding athletes and fine human beings such as Marion 
>Jones and Tim Montgomery are being publicly vilified because of their association 
>with me.
>
> "I am saddened that Tim and Marion have had to endure not only controversy, but also 
>criticism and erroneous statements regarding our relationship."
>
> Me again:
>
> You could have said this back in mid-December when the story broke, Charlie. Why so 
>long to come clean?
>
> Ken Stone

--
Regards,


Martin


Martin J. Dixon, B. Math. (Hons), C.A., Partner
Millard, Rouse & Rosebrugh LLP
Chartered Accountants
P.O. Box 367
96 Nelson Street
Brantford, Ontario
N3T 5N3
Direct Dial: (519) 759-3708 Ext. 231
Telephone: (519) 759-3511
Private Facsimile: (519) 759-8548
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web site: www.millards.com
Practice Areas: www.millards.com/htm/profs/m_mjdixo.htm


IMPORTANT NOTICE:
This email may be confidential, may be legally privileged, and is for
the intended recipient only.  Access, disclosure, copying, distribution
or reliance on any of it by anyone else is prohibited and may be a
criminal offence.  Please delete if obtained in error and email
confirmation to the sender.

t-and-f: Francis fesses up at last

[TrackCEO]

Y ask:

Reuters just spilled these beans:

TORONTO, Jan 31 (Reuters) -- Suspended Canadian coach Charlie Francis has confirmed he 
is working with triple Olympic champion Marion Jones and 100 metres world record 
holder Tim Montgomery.

But Francis, the mastermind behind Canadian Ben Johnson's drug-fuelled run for gold at 
the 1988 Olympics, said in a statement on Friday: "Over the past 15 years I have not 
encouraged nor condoned the taking of banned performance-enhancing substances by any 
of the athletes who have consulted me.

"This will continue to be an integral part of my practice in the future."

Francis said the fact that Jones and Montgomery chose to work with him was evidence 
enough the two Americans did not use banned substances.

"The professional and personal relationship which has developed amongst Tim, Marion 
and myself has been most gratifying," said Francis, who can work with other athletes 
even though a lifetime ban prevents him from coaching Canada's national team.

"The fact that Tim and Marion sought me out as their consultant, knowing that they 
would be subjected to increased public scrutiny as a result, speaks volumes for their 
personal integrity and human decency.

"Their actions should put to rest any suggestion that they sought my assistance for 
anything other than the technical training that I could provide," said Francis.

"To any rational observer, their deliberate choice of me as their consultant should be 
sufficient evidence that they do not use banned substances, since by their mere 
association with me they knew that they would be subjected to public scrutiny and 
unjustified cynicism.

"It is regrettable that outstanding athletes and fine human beings such as Marion 
Jones and Tim Montgomery are being publicly vilified because of their association with 
me.

"I am saddened that Tim and Marion have had to endure not only controversy, but also 
criticism and erroneous statements regarding our relationship."

Me again:

You could have said this back in mid-December when the story broke, Charlie. Why so 
long to come clean?

Ken Stone

Re: t-and-f: a testing-free sport

[ghill]

Randy,
There seems to be some fundamental disconnect between what I write and what
you read. 

Where did I say we take away all doping controls? That's ludicrous.

Where did I say something that remotely hints that it would be
"entertaining" to produce a race of chemical/mechanically altered droids?

Your tangent is a cogent one, and worthy of intelligent discussion, but your
attributing any such thoughts to me based on the posts in the Francis
thread(s) is balderdash.

gh


> From: Randy Treadway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: Randy Treadway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 12:38:59 -0800 (PST)
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: t-and-f: a testing-free sport
> 
> The problem is, if you take away all doping controls, the sport quickly
> evolves into a chemical and technology race, because there is a lot more
> unexplored territory there than just 'better training/better diet'.
> Those with sponsorships by the best pharmaceutical companies, as opposed to
> the current apparel sponsorships, will always be the winners.
> Chemical manipulation would eventually migrate into biomechanical and genetic
> manipulation.  A 3-minute mile might be EASY.
> By 2075, every elite "athlete" (if you could still call them that rather than
> robot) would have implants to replace the muscles that the good Lord gave them
> with mechanical devices that are a lot more powerful, transplants of key
> organs like lungs and hearts with more efficient devices (or from animals)
> would be common.
> Life expectancy for these "people" might be reduced to five years of
> high-performance activity.  Then the trash heap.
> 
> Would it be more "entertaining" than what we have today?
> Garry might think so.
> I see it as a nightmare.  That is definitely where pro football is headed.
> Yes it gets high TV ratings today.
> I prefer to stick with humans as they came out of the womb.
> 
> We have to think about where we want the sport to evolve in future decades,
> not just now.  If you think my future vision is outlandish, do your own
> forecast about what would happen if all testing & penalties were dropped and
> athletes were told to do whatever they wanted- if first to the finish line
> wins and how you get there no longer matters.
> 
> Would you want YOUR son or daughter training under a coach who basically tells
> them 'you can't get there with a body that is merely human' ?
> 
> RT
> 

Re: t-and-f: Euro meet directors threaten to go nuclear

[ghill]

> From: "malmo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 14:59:43 -0500
> To: "'ghill'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "'track list'"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: RE: t-and-f: Euro meet directors threaten to go nuclear
> 
> Read you load and clear: because pro football is doing it we should too?
> Because rock stars are dying of heroin overdoses and they're still
> popular, the problem isn't the heroin it's how the fan magazines are
> handling it? > 

OK George, you've earned your PhD in Spin Doctor with a Masters in
hyperbole. That's not remotely what I was saying, and I think you know it.

I'm saying that the pro leagues, while they are abysmally deficient in the
testing department (and should be ashamed of themselves) at least have the
right idea when it comes to punishment; punishments that fit the crime as
the general public (as opposed to hysterical people on track lists) sees it.

Track is handing out armed robbery sentences to shoplifters. As a result,
the public perception is that we're the dirty guys when we're not.

The solution? JUST OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD (not to be confused with a T&FN
position statement, or even a position I'll defend a week from now):

For a steroid positive, six months for first offense. Second offense,
lifetime ban, with the added penalty of removal of your name from all
IAAF/IOC records/results. Brutally punish the stupid for being truly stupid.
There will be few of those.

Aside from the punishment fitting the crime, there's the added benefit that
a lesser first penalty will reduce the amount of time a case spends being
flogged by the media.

Think of it in death-penalty terms (a criminal process I'm all in favor of,
for those of you who think of me as some died-in-the-wool do-gooder). Give
somebody the death penalty and he fight and appeals and appeals and appeals
and appeals.. takes forever to finish off. A 2-year sentence is close to
that in track terms. So an athlete too often feels he has no choice but to
fight it, fight it, fight it.

Cut the first penalty to 6 months and I predict that just about everybody
will simply accept the punishment. Case closed, no ongoing court battles, no
friggin' arbitration. And very few have ever been dumb enough to get caught
twice.

gh

t-and-f: USATF Media Advisory: Teleconferences schedule for Feb. 3 and 4

[USATF Communications]

MEMO:   January 31, 2002
TO: U.S. Athletics Media
FROM:   Tom Surber  (317) 261-0500 x317
Media Information Manager
USA Track & Field
SUBJECT:Media Teleconference

Two teleconferences scheduled for Verizon Millrose week

Members of the media will have the opportunity to speak with USA Track &
Field athletes on two occasions next week in preparation for the Verizon
Millrose Games on Friday, February 7, at New York’s Madison Square Garden.

Regarded as the world's greatest indoor invitational track meet, the Verizon
Millrose Games have been a sporting fixture in New York City since 1908.
Held annually since 1914, the Verizon Millrose Games are the longest running
sporting event in Madison Square Garden history. In all, 87 world indoor
records have been set or equaled, and 117 Millrose winners have been Olympic
Champions.

The Verizon Millrose Games will be broadcast LIVE on Friday, February 7,
from 7-9 p.m. Eastern Time on ESPN 2. The meet also will be broadcast on
Saturday, February 8 from 2:30-4 p.m. Eastern Time on NBC.

See below for information on both teleconferences, which will take place
Monday, February 3 and Tuesday, February 4. PLEASE NOTE THAT DIFFERENT
CALL-IN NUMBERS WILL BE USED FOR EACH CALL.

***Monday, February 3, 2003***

The Metropolitan New York Track Writers Luncheon on Monday, February 3,
2003, will feature call-in interviews Terrence Trammell and Jeff Hartwig.
Trammell is the 2001 world indoor 60m hurdles champion, 2002 USA indoor 60m
dash champion and Olympic silver medalist. Hartwig is the defending Verizon
Millrose Games pole vault champion, 2002 Fred Schmertz Outstanding Performer
Trophy winner and the American indoor record holder. The luncheon will begin
at noon at Da Tommaso Restaurant, located on Manhattan at 54th Street and
8th Avenue.

Reporters around the country can call in to join the interview with
Trammell, which will begin at 12:30 p.m. Eastern Time. Hartwig will be on
the call at 1 p.m. Eastern Time.

To take part in the interviews, dial 1-888-412-7888, then enter passcode
3631084#.

***Tuesday, February 4, 2003***

A USA Track & Field media teleconference featuring 1996 Olympic 110m hurdles
gold medalist Allen Johnson has been scheduled for 1:00 p.m. Eastern time on
Tuesday, February 4.

Johnson enters this year’s Verizon Millrose Games as a three-time World
Outdoor 110m hurdles champion (1995, ’97, ’01) and the 60m hurdles gold
medalist at the 1995 World Indoor Championships. The 1992 NCAA Indoor 55m
hurdles champion, Johnson is a two-time U.S. Indoor 60m hurdles champ (1995-
’02).

To participate in the teleconference, please dial (800) 791-2345 just prior
to the beginning of the call. If you are calling from outside North America,
dial (317) 713-0120. The access code is 64186.

Shortly after the call, a full audio replay and partial transcript will be
available on the USATF Web site – www.usatf.org.

# # #

Re: t-and-f: Millrose Games Entries

[Tony Banovich]

Didn't Bolota Asmeron get American citizenship?

Tony B

- Original Message - 
From: "Michael J. Roth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "T&F Listserve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 4:13 PM
Subject: t-and-f: Millrose Games Entries


> EVENT 23 - MEN'S 3000m - 8:15 PM   
>  55 Paul Bitok, Kenya
>  57 Dan Browne, Nike
>  58 Markos Geneti, adidas/Ethiopia
>  59 Martin Keino, Nike/Kenya
>  61 Kenneth Maiyo, Kenya
>  62 James Karanu, New Balance/Kenya
>  63 James Thie, New York A.C./Great Britain
>  64 Bolota Asmeron, Eritria
>  
>

t-and-f: Millrose Games Entries

[Michael J. Roth]

2003 Verizon Millrose Games Entry List


(January 29, 2003)

 2003 VERIZON MILLROSE GAMES ENTRIES*

EVENT 1 - MASTERS WOMEN'S 4x400m RELAY - 5:20pm
A Bohemia Track Club Bohemia, NY
B Central Park Track Club - A New York, NY
C Central Park Track Club - B New York, NY
D Genesee Valley Harriers Rochester, NY
E Shore Athletic Club Spring Lake, NJ
F Syracuse Chargers Track Club Syracuse, NY

EVENT 2 - MASTERS MEN'S 4x400m RELAY - 5:30pm   
A A.U.R.A.- A Bronx, NY
B A.U.R.A.- B Bronx, NY
C Central Park Track Club New York, NY
D Shore Athletic Club Neptune, NJ
E Sprint Force America - A New York, NY
F Sprint Force America - B New York, NY

EVENT 3 - YOUTH 4x1 LAP RELAY - 5:35 PM
A Brooklyn Central YMCA @PS 8 Brooklyn, NY
B Children's Storefront East Harlem, NY
C Don Pedro Albizu Campus School Harlem, NY
D John J. Pershing/IS 220 Brooklyn, NY
E P.S. 180 Jaguars Harlem, NY
F Rabbits Club USA East Harlem, NY

EVENT 4 - WOMEN'S HIGH JUMP - 5:40 PM   
175 Tisha Waller, Nike
176 Amy Acuff, Asics
177 Gwen Wentland, Nike
178 Lynn Houston, Nat's Athletic Training

EVENT 5 - COMBINED WITH EVENT 6   
EVENT 6 - MEN'S 4x400mRELAY - 5:45 PM   
R New York City College of Tech   Brooklyn, NY
S Lehman CollegeBronx. NY
T Medgar Evers College   Brooklyn, NY
U York CollegeJamaica, NY
V City College of New YorkNew York, NY
W Farmingdale State UniversityFarmingdale, NY
X Queensborough Community College Flushing, NY

EVENT 7 - MEN'S 4x800mRELAY - 5:50 PM   
J Rutgers University   Piscataway, NJ
K New York UniversityNew York, NY
L East Carolina UniversityGreenville, NC
M C.W. Post College   Brookville, NY
N St. John's University  Jamaica, NY
O Westchester Track ClubIrvington, NY
P Stony Brook University  Stony Brook,NY
Q Monmouth UniversityWest Long Branch, NJ
R St. Francis College Brooklyn, NY
S Wheaton College   Norton, MA
T Franklin and Marshall CollegeLancaster, PA

EVENT 8 - VISA WOMEN'S POLE VAULT - 6:00 PM   
165 Stacy  Dragila, Nike
166 Mel Mueller, Nike
167 Mary  Sauer, Asics
168 Kellie Suttle, Nike
169 Tracy O'Hara, Los Angeles, CA
170 Jillian Schwartz, Nike

EVENT 9 - WOMEN'S 4x400m RELAY - 6:00 PM   
H Lehman College  Bronx, NY
I Lehigh University  Bethlehem, PA
J Stony Brook UniversityStony Brook, NY
K University at Albany   Albany, NY
L Wagner College  Staten Island, NY
M Monmouth University West Long Branch, NJ
N Colgate University   Hamilton, NY

EVENT 10 - MEN'S 4x400m RELAY - 6:05 PM   
L Pratt InstituteBrooklyn, NY
L Lehigh University  Bethlehem, PA
N Wagner College   Staten Island, NY
O Montclair State UniversityUpper Monclair, NJ
P St. Francis CollegeBrooklyn, NY
Q SUNY Delhi CollegeDelhi, NY

EVENT 11 - SUBURBAN HIGH SCHOOL GIRLS' 4x400m RELAY - 6:10 PM   
A Cornwall H.S.   Cornwall, NY
B Mount Vernon H.S.   Mount Vernon, NY
C Trenton Central H.S. Trenton, NJ
D Uniondale H.S.  Uniondale, NY
E Ward Melville H.S.East Setauket, NY
F Willingboro H.S.Willingboro, NJ

EVENT 12 - CHSAA GIRLS' 4x400m RELAY - 6:15 PM   
A Bishop Loughlin H.S. Brooklyn, NY
B Cardinal Spellman H.S.  Bronx, NY
C Kellenberg Memorial H.S. Uniondale, NY
D Notre Dame Academy H.S.   Staten Island, NY
E St. John's Prep. H.S.  Fresh Meadows, NY
F St. Joseph By-the-Sea H.S.   Staten Island, NY

EVENT 13 - SUBURBAN HIGH SCHOOL BOYS' 4x400m RELAY - 6:20 PM   
A Bay Shore H.S.  Bay Shore,  NY
B North Rockland H.S.  Thiells, NY
C Roosevelt H.S.   Yonkers, NY
D Trenton Central H.S.  Trenton, NJ
E Westbury H.S.   Westbury, NY
F Willingboro H.S.Willingboro, NJ

EVENT 14 - PSAL GIRLS' 4x400m RELAY - 6:25 PM   
A A.P. Randolph H.S. New York, NY
B Boys & Girls H.S.Brooklyn, NY
C Dewitt Clinton H.S.  Bronx, NY
D Far Rockaway H.S. Queens, NY
E Harry S. Truman H.S.  Bronx, NY
F Paul Robeson H.S.   Brooklyn, NY

EVENT 15 - SUSAN RUDIN ONE MILE WALK - 6:30PM   
91 Adam Staier, Mansfield University
92 Colonel Steve Pecinovsky, U.S. Air Force
93 Zachary Pollinger, New Jersey Striders
94 Joseph Trapani, Middle County H.S.
95 Greg Dawson, Walk USA
96 Nick Bdera, Eastside Racewalk Team
97 Bill Vayo, Eastside Racewalk Team
98 Rob Williams, Farmingdale University

EVENT 16 - MEN'S 60m HURDLES - 7:05 PM   
11 Allen Johnson, Nike
12 Terrence T

RE: t-and-f: Title IX observations

[Bloomquist, Bret]

This sums up my opinion on it, plus it gives Paula Radcliffe some publicity:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/rick_reilly/news/2003/01/23/lif
e_of_reilly/


> -Original Message-
> From: ghill [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 1:31 PM
> To:   track list
> Subject:  Re: t-and-f: Title IX observations
> 
> oh, probably for the same reason you didn't have '60s Civil Rights
> hearings
> with only Orville Faubus and George Wallace on the commission.
> 
> gh (who HATES what pre-Title IX did to women far more than drugs have to
> track)
> 
> > From: "Ed Grant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Reply-To: "Ed Grant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 14:31:32 -0800
> > To: "track net" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Subject: t-and-f: Title IX observations
> > 
> >   2) What were women sports advocates doing on the comission? The
> > story I read today said that if one of them hadn't been late, an
> important
> > part of the changes would not have passed. Advocates have no place on
> > committees of this kind---they should be there to testify, period.

t-and-f: USA Indoor Nationals - Club DMR

[Steve Vaitones]

While the Men's and Women's T&F committees chose not to hold the DMR as a 
Championship event at this year's USA Indoor Championships, the New England 
association of USATF has been able to have a club 'development' relay 
included for both men and women. It will run on Sunday March 2 early in the 
schedule.  Entry standards of 10:20/12:20
Entry goes through USATF New England; interested clubs should send along a 
request to [EMAIL PROTECTED] to obtain the entry form

Steve

Steve Vaitones
Managing Director
USA Track & Field - New England Association
P.O.Box 1905
Brookline MA 02446-0016
Phone: 617 566 7600
Fax: 617 734 6322
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.usatfne.org

RE: t-and-f: Euro meet directors threaten to go nuclear

[malmo]

Read you load and clear: because pro football is doing it we should too?
Because rock stars are dying of heroin overdoses and they're still
popular, the problem isn't the heroin it's how the fan magazines are
handling it? 

Track and Field News needs to be more like MTV, Rolling Stone and
People, right?

malmo

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of ghill
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 2:42 PM
To: track list
Subject: Re: t-and-f: Euro meet directors threaten to go nuclear




> From: "malmo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 14:35:54 -0500
> To: "'ghill'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "'track list'" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: RE: t-and-f: Euro meet directors threaten to go nuclear
> 
> ANYONE who thinks that drugs in our sport is not destroying it is 
> either
> 1) an idiot, 2) dishonest or 3) complicit (or any combination of).>>


OK, put me down under "idiot" then.

It's the *handling* of the drug situation that's destroying it, not the
drugs themselves. Track already has the most stringent testing system
and the fiercest penalties. Meanwhile, the pro sports have incredibly
high rates of abuse (and do almost nothing about it in terms of
prevention or penalty) yet don't suffer any image problem. You don't
think there's a correlation there? We have a problem of such a magnitude
because we keep making it such a problem. We have seen the enemy and he
is us.

gh

Re: t-and-f: Mr. Francis gets his chance to put up or shut up

[Mike Prizy]

For about a week or so, I thought the IAAF was really going to move seriously on the 
issue of drug
use. This statement* sounds like maybe the GL begged or pressured the IAAF to find a 
golden
parachute out of their big talk. With all the honorable people involved here, I guess 
a simple
statement is going to DQ the issue and it's back to business as usual.


*From SI: IAAF leaders examined Dubin's letter Friday and said they would back 
Francis' full
reinstatement as long as he issued a statement against the use of 
performance-enhancing drugs.


ghill wrote:

> http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/more/news/2003/01/31/francis_coaching_ap/
>
> (IAAF offers deal to "clear" him)

t-and-f: USATF News & Notes: January 31, 2003

[USATF Communications]

Contact:Melvin Jackson II
Communications Coordinator
USA Track & Field
(317) 261-0500 x322
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.usatf.org
 
USATF News & Notes
Volume 4, Number 10  January 31, 2003
 
==
In this edition:
==
 
- Watch the adidas Boston Indoor Games live on TV
- Olympians to compete in Husky Invitational 
- Oregon will merge men's and women's track 
- Miller promoted to USATF Director position 
==
 
Watch the adidas Boston Indoor Games live on TV
 
Be sure to tune in when indoor track and field returns to LIVE
television this Saturday! 
 
The adidas Boston Indoor Games, the first stop on USA Track & Field's
2003 Indoor Golden Spike Tour, will air from 6-7 p.m. Eastern Time on
ESPN2 this Saturday, Feb. 1.  Superstars such as Maurice Greene, Stacy
Dragila, David Krummenacker and Regina Jacobs have their eyes on cash
bonuses for American or world-record performances.
 
For more information on the 2003 Indoor Golden Spike Tour and other TV
air dates, visit www.usatf.org
 

 
Olympians to compete at Husky Invitational
 
Olympian throwers and UCLA alumni John Godina and Seilala Sua headline
the Husky Invitational this Saturday, February 1, at the University of
Washington.  Godina is a two-time Olympic medalist and three-time world
champion in the shot put, while Sua, an Olympian in the discus and a
former U.S. champion in the shot put, was a six-time NCAA champion for
UCLA. 
 
In collegiate competition, the Husky Invitational will feature teams
from fifth-ranked UCLA, sixth-ranked Stanford, 12th-ranked Wisconsin,
24th-ranked Southern Methodist and the 19th-ranked Huskies.  For more
information, including a complete list of entries, visit
www.directathletics.com.
 

 
Oregon to merge men's and women's programs
 
Martin Smith, the former Pacific-10 Conference and West Region Coach of
the Year in four seasons as the University of Oregon's men's track
coach, will assume the title of Director of Men's and Women's Track and
Field and Cross Country following the 2002-03 season.
 
The 51-year native of Alexandria, Va., will add supervision of the
women's 
programs upon the retirement of women's head coach Tom Heinonen at the
end 
of the 2003 track and field season.  Heinonen announced last October the
he would retire as women's track and cross country coach following the
conclusion of his 27-year Oregon track coaching career this spring.
 
It will mark the first time that one individual has overseen the
direction of Oregon's storied athletic programs. Smith joined the Ducks
after a successful stint at the University of Wisconsin (1983-1998),
where as men's cross country head coach and assistant track coach he led
the Badgers to two NCAA cross country team titles, nine NCAA top-five
team finishes, and one individual title. His track athletes combined for
44 All-America honors and five NCAA track titles.
 

 
Miller promoted to USATF Director of Finance and Human Resources
 
Gina Miller has been promoted to Director of Finance and Human Resources
at USATF National Headquarters in Indianapolis.  A USATF employee since
1998, Miller will be responsible for USA Track & Field's accounting,
tax, and financial reporting activities and will continue to provide
considerable support to USATF's budget and business transaction efforts.
She will now oversee all aspects of Human Resources for USATF, working
with several other directors on a number of HR matters.
 
In addition to contributing to the overhaul of USATF's financial systems
and developing of top-of-the-line financial reporting, Miller has
designed and implemented a number of voluntary employee benefit plans
that have delivered significant savings to USATF employees.
 

#  #  #
 
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE: If you would like to respond,
please direct your e-mail to the "Contact" person listed at the top of
the text of this message. To be removed from this mailing list or to
notify us of a change in your e-mail address, send a message to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

t-and-f: a testing-free sport

[Randy Treadway]

The problem is, if you take away all doping controls, the sport quickly evolves into a 
chemical and technology race, because there is a lot more unexplored territory there 
than just 'better training/better diet'.
Those with sponsorships by the best pharmaceutical companies, as opposed to the 
current apparel sponsorships, will always be the winners.
Chemical manipulation would eventually migrate into biomechanical and genetic 
manipulation.  A 3-minute mile might be EASY.
By 2075, every elite "athlete" (if you could still call them that rather than robot) 
would have implants to replace the muscles that the good Lord gave them with 
mechanical devices that are a lot more powerful, transplants of key organs like lungs 
and hearts with more efficient devices (or from animals) would be common.
Life expectancy for these "people" might be reduced to five years of high-performance 
activity.  Then the trash heap.

Would it be more "entertaining" than what we have today?
Garry might think so.
I see it as a nightmare.  That is definitely where pro football is headed.  Yes it 
gets high TV ratings today.
I prefer to stick with humans as they came out of the womb.

We have to think about where we want the sport to evolve in future decades, not just 
now.  If you think my future vision is outlandish, do your own forecast about what 
would happen if all testing & penalties were dropped and athletes were told to do 
whatever they wanted- if first to the finish line wins and how you get there no longer 
matters.

Would you want YOUR son or daughter training under a coach who basically tells them 
'you can't get there with a body that is merely human' ?

RT

Re: Re: t-and-f: Title IX observations

[Randy Treadway]

The analogy would be a little sharper if the '60s Civil Rights hearings had Stokely 
Charmichael, Huey Newton and Malcolm X on the commission.
Probably nothing would have been achieved.
Better that those 3 were kept off, ALONG WITH Fabaus and Wallace.

Sorry if some think comparing Huey Newton and feminist advocates is too harsh, as to 
their relative degree of impassioned advocacy and blind focus on an extremely narrow 
"agenda"- just my opinion.

RT


---Original Message---
From: ghill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 01/31/03 11:31 AM
To: track list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: t-and-f: Title IX observations

> 
> oh, probably for the same reason you didn't have '60s Civil Rights hearings
with only Orville Faubus and George Wallace on the commission.

gh (who HATES what pre-Title IX did to women far more than drugs have to
track)

> From: "Ed Grant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: "Ed Grant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 14:31:32 -0800
> To: "track net" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: t-and-f: Title IX observations
> 
>   2) What were women sports advocates doing on the comission? The
> story I read today said that if one of them hadn't been late, an
important
> part of the changes would not have passed. Advocates have no place on
> committees of this kind---they should be there to testify, period.

> 

Re: t-and-f: Euro meet directors threaten to go nuclear

[John Lunn]

Track and Field has not hit the pages of the Denver newspapers since
forever. Yesterday Tim and Marion made a big splash in the Rocky Mountain
News.Those who think that bad news is better than no news should be happy.
JL

malmo wrote:

> Problem is Garry-Two-Rs, is that you are not the editor of Welfare &
> Corporate Fraud News and don't profess to be the "Bible of our
> educationall system and the environment".
>
> ANYONE who thinks that drugs in our sport is not destroying it is either
> 1) an idiot, 2) dishonest or 3) complicit (or any combination of).
>
> malmo
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of ghill
> Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 1:57 PM
> To: track list
> Subject: Re: t-and-f: Euro meet directors threaten to go nuclear
>
>  It may be my fondest love, but in the big scope of things, it's just a
> bunch of skimply-clad people running around in circles.
>
> I'll get around to HATING what drugs have done to ALL sports after I've
> cleansed the world of welfare fraud, corporate fraud, the dumbing down
> of our educational system and the rape & pillage of our air and water.
> (short
> list)
>
> gh

t-and-f: Mr. Francis gets his chance to put up or shut up

[ghill]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/more/news/2003/01/31/francis_coaching_ap/

(IAAF offers deal to "clear" him)

Re: t-and-f: Euro meet directors threaten to go nuclear

[ghill]

> From: "malmo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 14:35:54 -0500
> To: "'ghill'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "'track list'"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: RE: t-and-f: Euro meet directors threaten to go nuclear
> 
> ANYONE who thinks that drugs in our sport is not destroying it is either
> 1) an idiot, 2) dishonest or 3) complicit (or any combination of).>>


OK, put me down under "idiot" then.

It's the *handling* of the drug situation that's destroying it, not the
drugs themselves. Track already has the most stringent testing system and
the fiercest penalties. Meanwhile, the pro sports have incredibly high rates
of abuse (and do almost nothing about it in terms of prevention or penalty)
yet don't suffer any image problem. You don't think there's a correlation
there? We have a problem of such a magnitude because we keep making it such
a problem. We have seen the enemy and he is us.

gh

RE: t-and-f: Euro meet directors threaten to go nuclear

[malmo]

Problem is Garry-Two-Rs, is that you are not the editor of Welfare &
Corporate Fraud News and don't profess to be the "Bible of our
educationall system and the environment".

ANYONE who thinks that drugs in our sport is not destroying it is either
1) an idiot, 2) dishonest or 3) complicit (or any combination of).

malmo


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of ghill
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 1:57 PM
To: track list
Subject: Re: t-and-f: Euro meet directors threaten to go nuclear

 It may be my fondest love, but in the big scope of things, it's just a
bunch of skimply-clad people running around in circles.

I'll get around to HATING what drugs have done to ALL sports after I've
cleansed the world of welfare fraud, corporate fraud, the dumbing down
of our educational system and the rape & pillage of our air and water.
(short
list)

gh

Re: t-and-f: Title IX observations

[ghill]

oh, probably for the same reason you didn't have '60s Civil Rights hearings
with only Orville Faubus and George Wallace on the commission.

gh (who HATES what pre-Title IX did to women far more than drugs have to
track)

> From: "Ed Grant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: "Ed Grant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 14:31:32 -0800
> To: "track net" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: t-and-f: Title IX observations
> 
>   2) What were women sports advocates doing on the comission? The
> story I read today said that if one of them hadn't been late, an important
> part of the changes would not have passed. Advocates have no place on
> committees of this kind---they should be there to testify, period.

Re: t-and-f: Title IX observations

[ghill]

> From: "Ed Grant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: "Ed Grant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 14:31:32 -0800
> To: "track net" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: t-and-f: Title IX observations
> 
>   3) I/m surprised no one has mentioned on the list, unless I missed
> it, the long op-ed article by author John Irving in the New York Times. A
> former wrestler, Irving evidently tore Title IX to pieces, according to
> friends of mine who read it. (I will catch up with it this weekend).>>

it was cited, and it was a fine piece of writing for an ADVOCATE. An
impartial observer he is not, although I do feel for the wrestlers and the
terrible screwing they are taking.

And just to clarify, it's not Title IX that requires fixing; it's the
implementation thereof.

gh

t-and-f: Title IX observations

[Ed Grant]

Netters:

A couple of observations on the Title IX mess


1) While it will be a good thing if walk-ons no longer are counted
for Tttle IX compliance, this is only a first step toward justice. The only
real justice, of course, is to either abolish the law by congressional
action (not likely) or have it declared unconstituional because of the way
it has been intepreted.



2) What were women sports advocates doing on the comission? The
story I read today said that if one of them hadn't been late, an important
part of the changes would not have passed. Advocates have no place on
committees of this kind---they should be there to testify, period.


3) I/m surprised no one has mentioned on the list, unless I missed
it, the long op-ed article by author John Irving in the New York Times. A
former wrestler, Irving evidently tore Title IX to pieces, according to
friends of mine who read it. (I will catch up with it this weekend).

Ed Grant

Re: t-and-f: Euro meet directors threaten to go nuclear

[ghill]

Geoff,

Being the opinionated guy I obviously am, I also hate a lot of things in
life, but what I don't do is allow myself to HATE them, as you do. The end
result of that course of action is what you're feeling--a disconnect from
the sport. 

I'm never going to let anybody/anything do that to me.

Does that mean I'll stop fighting for injustice? No. But I'll pick my
battles carefully, being effective where I can, and trying to stay out of
the way where I can't. And I feel that this M&M hoo-ha is an issue where
less hysteria and more going with the flow is called for. If you think
that's soft on drugs, so be it.

And if I really did want to HATE something, there are plenty of causes--on
both ends of the political spectrum--where I'd put my energies before
worrying about something silly like track & field. It may be my fondest
love, but in the big scope of things, it's just a bunch of skimply-clad
people running around in circles.

I'll get around to HATING what drugs have done to ALL sports after I've
cleansed the world of welfare fraud, corporate fraud, the dumbing down of
our educational system and the rape & pillage of our air and water. (short
list)


gh

> From: "Geoff Pietsch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 13:23:32 -0500
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: t-and-f: Euro meet directors threaten to go nuclear
> 
> Martin and Garry,
>  I've read all the postings on this issue and am really distressed.  I
> have a great deal of respect for Garry (as a T&FN subscriber since 1964 -
> with virtually all of the issues in my closet), and I've always found
> Martin's posts on this list to be thoughtful.  But all I can think, where
> both your posts on this issue are concerned, is that you just don't get it!
> Our sport is dying!  Drugs are a major reason, if not THE major reason, for
> this decline.  I competed for most of my life and coached XC and track at
> the high school level for 36 years.  I HATE what drugs have done to our
> sport.  Yet you guys defend a man who has made clear, even very recently,
> his belief that those who are clean are losers.
>   I understand Martin's anger at the hypocrisy on this issue in our sport,
> but can you really be arguing that two - or dozens - of wrongs make a right?
> I've always felt that our sport, especially track, was the purest of all
> sports.  No fancy equipment, no bizarre rules - with officals to interpet
> them - just human beings doing what they have done ever since they stood on
> two feet - trying to see who can get from here to there the fastest. Drugs
> are destroying that purity. Now, every time there is a record one has to
> wonder if the person was on drugs. Yet you think it's okay that the biggest
> name in our sport, Marion, and the fastest man ever, Tim, now are being
> coached by a man who believes that only losers are clean. Francis may
> legally be entitled to coach them; they may legally be entitled to go to him
> for coaching, but HOW CAN YOU DEFEND THEIR DOING SO? I find your viewpoints
> distressing and incomprehensible.
> Geoff Pietsch  Gainesville FL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> From: "Martin J. Dixon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Reply-To: "Martin J. Dixon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: ghill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> CC: track list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Subject: Re: t-and-f: Euro meet directors threaten to go nuclear
>> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 23:03:21 -0500
>> 
>> This bunch doesn't care about the law though gh. Why would they when
>> bad, tasteless jokes would suffice instead? We are only talking about
>> people's lives and livelihood here. Here is a little more on the meet
>> situation from Phil Hersh.
>> 
>> http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/5069699.htm
>> 
>> ghill wrote:
>>> 
>>> I'm no lawyer, but given the "right to work" laws prevalent in the
>> civilized
>>> European nations (the kind of statutes that caused the downfall of the
>>> IAAF's original 4-year bans, if I'm not mistaken), depriving the world's
>> top
>>> sprinters of the chance to compete for the huge prize money involved
>> when
>>> they're complete innocent not only of any civil/criminal charges, but
>> also
>>> "private-club" strictures, that's a case I'd like to pursue on behalf of
>>> M&M.
>>> 
>>> gh
>>> 
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 22:10:54 -0500
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: t-and-f: Euro meet directors threaten to go nuclear
 
 Y ask:
 
 This should get the attention of MJ-TM:
 
 http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/5069699.htm
 
 Quick query to Scott Davis and Tom Jordan: If Euro meet directors ban
>> the
 Dynamic Duo if they don't drop CF, would you follow suit?
 
 Ken Stone
 
> 
> 
> _
> The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
> 

Re: t-and-f: Euro meet directors threaten to go nuclear

[Geoff Pietsch]

Martin and Garry,
  I've read all the postings on this issue and am really distressed.  I 
have a great deal of respect for Garry (as a T&FN subscriber since 1964 - 
with virtually all of the issues in my closet), and I've always found 
Martin's posts on this list to be thoughtful.  But all I can think, where 
both your posts on this issue are concerned, is that you just don't get it!  
Our sport is dying!  Drugs are a major reason, if not THE major reason, for 
this decline.  I competed for most of my life and coached XC and track at 
the high school level for 36 years.  I HATE what drugs have done to our 
sport.  Yet you guys defend a man who has made clear, even very recently, 
his belief that those who are clean are losers.
   I understand Martin's anger at the hypocrisy on this issue in our sport, 
but can you really be arguing that two - or dozens - of wrongs make a right? 
 I've always felt that our sport, especially track, was the purest of all 
sports.  No fancy equipment, no bizarre rules - with officals to interpet 
them - just human beings doing what they have done ever since they stood on 
two feet - trying to see who can get from here to there the fastest. Drugs 
are destroying that purity. Now, every time there is a record one has to 
wonder if the person was on drugs. Yet you think it's okay that the biggest 
name in our sport, Marion, and the fastest man ever, Tim, now are being 
coached by a man who believes that only losers are clean. Francis may 
legally be entitled to coach them; they may legally be entitled to go to him 
for coaching, but HOW CAN YOU DEFEND THEIR DOING SO? I find your viewpoints 
distressing and incomprehensible.
 Geoff Pietsch  Gainesville FL





From: "Martin J. Dixon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: "Martin J. Dixon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ghill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
CC: track list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: t-and-f: Euro meet directors threaten to go nuclear
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 23:03:21 -0500

This bunch doesn't care about the law though gh. Why would they when
bad, tasteless jokes would suffice instead? We are only talking about
people's lives and livelihood here. Here is a little more on the meet
situation from Phil Hersh.

http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/5069699.htm

ghill wrote:
>
> I'm no lawyer, but given the "right to work" laws prevalent in the 
civilized
> European nations (the kind of statutes that caused the downfall of the
> IAAF's original 4-year bans, if I'm not mistaken), depriving the world's 
top
> sprinters of the chance to compete for the huge prize money involved 
when
> they're complete innocent not only of any civil/criminal charges, but 
also
> "private-club" strictures, that's a case I'd like to pursue on behalf of
> M&M.
>
> gh
>
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 22:10:54 -0500
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: t-and-f: Euro meet directors threaten to go nuclear
> >
> > Y ask:
> >
> > This should get the attention of MJ-TM:
> >
> > http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/5069699.htm
> >
> > Quick query to Scott Davis and Tom Jordan: If Euro meet directors ban 
the
> > Dynamic Duo if they don't drop CF, would you follow suit?
> >
> > Ken Stone
> >


_
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

t-and-f: National Depth--Composite

[Roger Ruth]

All of the national depth tables now have been posted and I've done
composites for convenience in my files. If anyone would like a copy, drop
me a note off-list and I'll send it along. There are two
versions--comparison of men's and women's marks, as they have been posted,
and separate men's and women's lists. The latter are more convenient to
rearrange for other kinds of comparisons. Both are in e-mail format.

Cheers,
Roger

t-and-f: National Depth--Marathon

[Roger Ruth]

The tables that follow summarize the number of athletes each country placed
in the world top-100 rankings for 2002 (plus ties) and the highest-ranked
of these for each event. Since one or two placings may represent only
exceptional individuals or unusual circumstances, rather than national
program strength, I've condensed the lists to countries with three placings
or more. The data base drawn upon is the world list from Mirko Jalava's web
site .


NEN'S MARATHON 2002 WOMEN'S MARATHON 2002
Country  Top 100  Highest   Country  Top 101  Highest

Kenya   45   2  Japan   20   6
Japan9   4  Russia  15   7
Ethiopia 8   5  Kenya   11   2
Italy5  12  China9   3
Spain5  17  Ethiopia 7   9
South Africa 4  10  Italy6  31
France   4  20  North Korea  6  34
Korea3  40  Romania  4  16
Germany  3  37
United States3  41

22 countries represented25 countries represented
100th = 2:11:21 100th = 2:31:17

Re: t-and-f: Euro meet directors threaten to go nuclear

[Martin J. Dixon]

Who sponsored Sotomayor? Here's an actual criminal that should have gone to
jail. Let's get him back on the playing field though.
Regards,
Martin

"It's the hypocrisy of the IAAF that's so galling. This is an organization
that makes a pretense of policing drugs. They're not hard to find. They seem
to be pretty easy to ignore. Javier Sotomayor of Cuba, the world-record holder
in the high jump, was nailed for cocaine at the Pan American Games in Winnipeg
in 1999. He was banned for two years, but the IAAF made certain the sentence
was cut in half so he could be back on the European circuit and participate in
the 2000 Sydney Olympics.

They were special circumstances, the IAAF said. Sotomayor had had a long and
meritorious career and got a reprieve. Sotomayor showed just how special he
was when he tested positive for the steroid nandrolone in 2001."


http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/PEstory/TGAM/20030131/SANAL/sports/sports/sportsOtherHeadline_temp/1/1/8/

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> On Thu, 30 Jan 2003 22:46:42 -0800 (PST), you wrote:
>
> >--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >> Would M&M bother to show up, if the there is no
> >> $$ guarantee and prize money is the only carrot?
> >
> >Don't you think public interest will actually be *greater* after this
> >controversy?  If anything, the appearance fees should be higher.  I doubt
> >it will have a negative impact on sponsors.
>
> Then why do news reports say that Nike has been
> trying to encourage Jones to disassociate herself from Francis?
>
> RT