t-and-f: Ruining Athletics
I think it has been more likely that the focus in our sport on chasing world records rather than valueing the race has been far far more damaging than pacemakers. Imagine in car racing if we only valued a Formula One race by how fast the race was completed rather than the victory on the day. World Record Focus has done all the damage. Pacemaking is just part of that and drugs are another part of it. Money is in a WR. regards Steve Bennett www.oztrack.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jones, Carleton Sent: Saturday, 8 May 2004 2:33 AM To: Track & Field List Subject: RE: t-and-f: Did Bannister ruin athletics? I direct your attention to this link: http://archives.cbc.ca/IDC-1-41-1303-7607-11/that_was_then/sports/ I don't think you could characterize Bannister (or Landy) as not knowing "...how to behave when there's no pacesetter to lead them around." Bannister had a goal that he wanted to achieve - running under 4:00. He certainly had other goals that he pursued as successfully - including winning races. I hardly think it's his fault that subsequently SOME fans, promoters, and racers have chosen to elevate the goal of chasing times as opposed to the goal of winning races. Cheers, Buck Carleton 'Buck' Jones, Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pharmacology Arizona College of Osteopathic Medicine Midwestern University - Glendale 19555 N 59th Avenue Glendale, AZ 85308 623-572-3667 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 7:20 PM To: Ed & Marsha Prytherch Cc: Martin J. Dixon; Track & Field List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Did Bannister ruin athletics? Ed ranted: >That's typical of the crap that's published in the rag known as the >Guardian. They get it wrong on everything else, why should anyone expect >them to get it right on athletics. First, I'd note that they're carrying a piece by an author - not an editorial by the paper itself. Second, I'd welcome any piece on T&F so nuanced in an American paper. It's critical about a national hero - and it's not even about drugs! Third, it's an opinion. And one which has some merit. I have great respect for Dr. Bannister, both in the way he prepared for the record attempt, and for his exemplary conduct and life since - but track is lessened when it devolves into trains of pacesetters leading the way for a time trial disguised as a race. That's probably one of the reasons that the championships seem so muddied in the 1500, in particular - nobody seems to know how to behave when there's no pacesetter to lead them around. Phil > "Bannister's four-minute mile, whose 50th anniversary is being hailed > this week, actually ruined world athletics." > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1208738,00.html > > >
t-and-f: Hammer results from Utah State
Women 1. Maureen Griffin, Pocatello TC 219-9 (66.97 m) 2. Amy Palmer, Unattached 214-6 (65.39 m) 3. Kelli Burton, Utah State 193-2 (58.89 m) 4. Vanessa Mortensen, Utah 191-6 (58.37 m) 5. Anna Dolegiewicz, Old Boys Network 185-5 (56.53 m) 6. Natasha Eldridge, Utah 183-0 (55.78 m) Maureen Griffin is serious about the o-trials this time. Amy Palmer looks much more consistant than ever before and keeps slowly coming back from a 3 year maternity leave. Tapio Kuusela Check out the coupons and bargains on MSN Offers!
Re: t-and-f: Bannister ruining the sport
Well put. I vividly remember those couple of times when I "walked on air" and have forgotten the countless times I walked in the mud. Tom On May 7, 2004, at 3:03 PM, malmo wrote: Randy, the problem with your desires to have the runners acquiece to your vicarious desires is that those head-to-head match races are exactly what runners LOVE Have you ever been in a pack with 150 to go, everyone digging hard, and you reach for that extra gear and find it, and blow by the field like you are walking on air? I have. Believe me, once you've felt THAT thrill, you want to experience it again and again! Every 1500 meter runner has had that thrill, and no matter how badly you want time trials, they will not comply. Accept it, and learn to enjoy the terror that is racing. malmo From: Randy Treadway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> What I hate most is some of the best athletes in the world going head to head at pedestrian race and then seeing who has the most blazing speed in the last 10% of the race. I HATE THAT!!! It reminds of those velodrome bicyclers that see how slow they can go without the bike falling over, so they can just watch other- like playing 'chicken' or 'russian roulette'.
Re: t-and-f: Bannister ruining the sport
Very nice! malmo wrote: > Randy, the problem with your desires to have the runners acquiece to your vicarious > desires is that those head-to-head match races are exactly what runners LOVE > > Have you ever been in a pack with 150 to go, everyone digging hard, and you reach > for that extra gear and find it, and blow by the field like you are walking on air? > I have. Believe me, once you've felt THAT thrill, you want to experience it again > and again! Every 1500 meter runner has had that thrill, and no matter how badly you > want time trials, they will not comply. > > Accept it, and learn to enjoy the terror that is racing. > > malmo > > > From: Randy Treadway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > What I hate most is some of the best athletes in the world going head to head at > > pedestrian race and then seeing who has the most blazing speed in the last 10% of > > the race. I HATE THAT!!! It reminds of those velodrome bicyclers that see how > > slow they can go without the bike falling over, so they can just watch other- like > > playing 'chicken' or 'russian roulette'.
Re: t-and-f: Bannister ruining the sport
Randy, the problem with your desires to have the runners acquiece to your vicarious desires is that those head-to-head match races are exactly what runners LOVE Have you ever been in a pack with 150 to go, everyone digging hard, and you reach for that extra gear and find it, and blow by the field like you are walking on air? I have. Believe me, once you've felt THAT thrill, you want to experience it again and again! Every 1500 meter runner has had that thrill, and no matter how badly you want time trials, they will not comply. Accept it, and learn to enjoy the terror that is racing. malmo > From: Randy Treadway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > What I hate most is some of the best athletes in the world going head to head at > pedestrian race and then seeing who has the most blazing speed in the last 10% of > the race. I HATE THAT!!! It reminds of those velodrome bicyclers that see how slow > they can go without the bike falling over, so they can just watch other- like > playing 'chicken' or 'russian roulette'.
t-and-f: Bannister ruining the sport
A lot has been written and said over the last few years about how horrible 'time-chasing' is because it takes away the fan excitement of head-to-head competition. I'm not convinced that we can't have both. Bannister vs Landy in the '54 Commonwealth Games produced a 3:58 when the World Record was 3:57. Ryun vs Liquori in '71 produced a 3:52 when the World Record was 3:51. What I hate most is some of the best athletes in the world going head to head at pedestrian race and then seeing who has the most blazing speed in the last 10% of the race. I HATE THAT!!! It reminds of those velodrome bicyclers that see how slow they can go without the bike falling over, so they can just watch other- like playing 'chicken' or 'russian roulette'. Yes, I would rather watch a single one of these athletes make a good shot at a rabbited world record attempt with the last 10% of the race basically solo man-against-the-clock. Wasn't that basically what Eamonn Coghlan was doing in his best WR-shots on the indoor circuit? Nobody was really in his class, and everybody knew he was shooting for sub-3:50. And the fans were standing screaming at the top of their lungs. Maybe the problem in combining both (fast times & good competition) is when you have MORE than two in the race with legitimate shots- there are so many variables to keep an eye on that an athlete chooses to NOT follow the rabbit's pace and instead goes into 'total tactical mode'. Those two races I cited (Bannister/Landy & Ryun/Liquori) were basically 2 people head-to-head with others thrown into the field just to fill it out (and maybe rabbit)- Commonwealth Games qualifying rounds notwithstanding- it was still really just Bannister vs Landy and everybody knew it. RT
RE: t-and-f: Did Bannister ruin athletics?
I direct your attention to this link: http://archives.cbc.ca/IDC-1-41-1303-7607-11/that_was_then/sports/ I don't think you could characterize Bannister (or Landy) as not knowing "...how to behave when there's no pacesetter to lead them around." Bannister had a goal that he wanted to achieve - running under 4:00. He certainly had other goals that he pursued as successfully - including winning races. I hardly think it's his fault that subsequently SOME fans, promoters, and racers have chosen to elevate the goal of chasing times as opposed to the goal of winning races. Cheers, Buck Carleton 'Buck' Jones, Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pharmacology Arizona College of Osteopathic Medicine Midwestern University - Glendale 19555 N 59th Avenue Glendale, AZ 85308 623-572-3667 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 7:20 PM To: Ed & Marsha Prytherch Cc: Martin J. Dixon; Track & Field List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Did Bannister ruin athletics? Ed ranted: >That's typical of the crap that's published in the rag known as the >Guardian. They get it wrong on everything else, why should anyone expect >them to get it right on athletics. First, I'd note that they're carrying a piece by an author - not an editorial by the paper itself. Second, I'd welcome any piece on T&F so nuanced in an American paper. It's critical about a national hero - and it's not even about drugs! Third, it's an opinion. And one which has some merit. I have great respect for Dr. Bannister, both in the way he prepared for the record attempt, and for his exemplary conduct and life since - but track is lessened when it devolves into trains of pacesetters leading the way for a time trial disguised as a race. That's probably one of the reasons that the championships seem so muddied in the 1500, in particular - nobody seems to know how to behave when there's no pacesetter to lead them around. Phil > "Bannister's four-minute mile, whose 50th anniversary is being hailed > this week, actually ruined world athletics." > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1208738,00.html > > >
t-and-f: FL 3A and 4A state meet Preview
The Florida State Track and Field Finals will be held at the University of Florida's Percy Beard Track on Friday and Saturday, May 7 and 8, 2004. The state meet event schedule is located at http://www.fhsaa.org/programs/sports/tr/state_schedule.htm. State meet record, all-time records, and national record will be threatened as one of the greatest group of high school athletes in Florida history gather for the final weekend of the Florida track and field finals. Individual records that will be threatened are: 100m Roosevelt McCall Ocala Forest 10.38(1993);200m Xavier Carter 20.69(2003) ;400m Geno White Jacksonvile Wolfson 45.94(1998); Westley Stockbarger 202-08(2003); Viktoria Andonova HJ 6-00(2003);TJ record 417 1/2, Shannell McMiller, Miami Northwestern, 1998 (6A). Ones to watch in this year's races for state record and national purposes. 3A Xavier Carter X-Man Palm Bay(100m, 200m, and 400m) If he wins, he becomes the first to win 4 straight 400m titles. If he triples, he becomes the second person since Hernando Pearson from Brooksville won the 100 yard dash, the 220 and the 440 in 1915 and 1917. Pearson also won the shot put in 1915. No one has completed the triple two consecutive years. If he wins all, Carter will have 9 individual titles which will tie him for first all-time with E. Newcome, Ocala, 1925-27 and Houston McTear, Baker, 1973-76. He is also the national indoor 200m record holder with his 20.69 at the NSIC meet March 13, 2004 and the state meet record holder with a time of 20.69 set last year. Westley Stockbarger Charlotte( Discus and SP) He broke the discus record by Dock Luckie set in 1977 with his 202-08 last year. He has a chance to break it again and he also has a chance at the oldest standing record on the state meet record books Dock Luckie Ft. Pierce Central 65-04 1977 Ricardo Chambers Dwyer (400m), defending 4 A state 400m champion, has run 46.27 for the 400m this year. He could beat Carter though last week Carter beat him by 2 seconds after he(Carter) took him out fast. Tim Harris Booker T. Washington (1600m and 800m) He will try and double. He's the 6th fastest Florida all-time in the 800m with his 1:50.36 this season. 4A Viktoria Andonova, Coral Springs has high jumped 6-01 this season and is the state meet record holder. She jumped 41-5.50 in the TJlast year to just miss the record. She is the daughter of former world record holder, Lyudmila Andonova of Bulgaria. Walter Dix, Coral Springs has run 10.28, 20.56 this year. He has a run 10.45, 10.32 and 10.36 against no competition in successive weeks. He has also run under 21 second several times this year. His best, 20.56 is a national leader. He also has a chance a Houston McTears Florida all-time record of 10.16 set in 1976. Jennifer Barringer Oviedo (1600m and 3200m) Barringer owns the 2nd fastest FL all-time 3200m with her 10:18.84. Her best in the 1600m this season is 4:50.33 at regions last week. She is aiming for a sub 4:50 which would break Hillary White's (Buchholz) record 4:54.65 set in 2000. She could also beat the best mark in the 3200m 10:41.59, Kara Scanlin, Episcopal (Jacksonville), 2002. Barringer was the only high school athlete to make the USA World Junior Cross Country Championships team that competed March 20, 2004 in Brussels, Belgium. She placed 35th there. She was also 3rd at the Foot Locker National Cross Country Championships in San Diego in December. The placing was the highest ever by a Florida, boy or girl, in the 25 year history of the meet. Lauren Austin Oak Ridge (100m, 200m, and 400m) could pull a pretty rare triple. She is ranked #1 in the 100m and 200m and her best from last year, 53.61 is the best of the field. She was also a member of the 4 x 400m relay team that won the World Youth Championships gold in Sherbrooke, Canada. Pavielle James Miami Northwestern 100m H She had the state meet record, 13.69 until last week's 13.53 by Shantrell Moss of Pompano Beach. She could get the record. She finished 6th in the 100m hurdles at the World Youth Championships last summer in Sherbrooke, Canada. Oak Ridge's 4 x100m, 4 x 400m set the record last year and set the all-time record of 3:41.34 in California this year. They will be running without Austin though in both relays. 3A Girls Team breakdown St. Thoma Aquinas comes out on top in the mock team scoring. Their 54.25 points outdistances Bishop Kinney's 41. The remaining teams of interest Wolfson 38, Rockeldge 36,EdWhite 35.5 and Ft. Lauderdale 24. If they win, it will be their 7th title in school history and will move them to #3 all-time for number of team championships. They will also move to #1 for the most consecutive titles for a girl's team in track and field history. 3A Boys breakdown In mock team scoring Wolfon comes out ahead with 57 points. Washington is a close second with 53. The remaining teams: Palm Bay 44, Chiles 41, and Ft. Lauderdale 38. Wolfson has two pervious titles
