Re: [Tagging] Underground power lines in tunnel
Thanks fly for this answer. Type=tunnel can suits my needs : let's add all power lines in the relation with role=through. Add tubes or not depends on the tunnel design, not on what's inside. I don't mind. The trick is to link many power lines to a single tunnel. However, it would be hard to build something in transmission refinement with it since type=tunnel proposal isn't voted yet. Don't we have something more reliable ? Cheers. François Lacombe francois dot lacombe At telecom-bretagne dot eu http://www.infos-reseaux.com 2013/6/4 fly lowfligh...@googlemail.com: On 04.06.2013 00:26, François Lacombe wrote: Hi, I'm currently improving draft of power transmission refinement proposal and a question about underground features can't currently find answer. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Power_transmission_refinement I wonder how we can map power lines underground and infrastructure which can host them simultaneously. The best example is when several power lines are built in a tunnel like on this photo : http://www.rte-france.com/webapp/100ansparis/img/chapitre3/img14.jpg I can create several ways, very close from each other, for all power lines we can see and tag them with tunnel=yes but how will I map the tunnel ? If we only use tunnel=yes on each power line, it's impossible to know if they are in the same tunnel or if there is one dedicated tunnel for each. I think only a relation would solve the problem and it's not a power line dedicated question. Do someone have ever encounter that situation ? Mmh, type=tunnel is already in use [1] but it is used for the whole tunnel, e.g. to combine several tubes and the infrastucture like escape ways and air-system. We could use a tag like tubes= or number_of_tubes= for the relation and draw the outline. fly -- [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Proposed/Bridges_and_Tunnels ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Underground power lines in tunnel
Hi That's already a problem for ways, too: A motorway with two separate highways in OSM may be one bridge alltogether - but is mapped as two. A street where the footways along are separated by a small wall or a hedge is drawn as distinct osm ways (at least it should be) but if these ways share the same bridge construction, there the problem is exactly the same. There's this proposal already, although I'm not sure if it's the best solution: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Proposed/Bridges_and_Tunnels regards Peter Am 04.06.2013 00:26, schrieb François Lacombe: Hi, I'm currently improving draft of power transmission refinement proposal and a question about underground features can't currently find answer. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Power_transmission_refinement I wonder how we can map power lines underground and infrastructure which can host them simultaneously. The best example is when several power lines are built in a tunnel like on this photo : http://www.rte-france.com/webapp/100ansparis/img/chapitre3/img14.jpg I can create several ways, very close from each other, for all power lines we can see and tag them with tunnel=yes but how will I map the tunnel ? If we only use tunnel=yes on each power line, it's impossible to know if they are in the same tunnel or if there is one dedicated tunnel for each. I think only a relation would solve the problem and it's not a power line dedicated question. Do someone have ever encounter that situation ? Many thanks in advance, cheers. *François Lacombe* francois dot lacombe At telecom-bretagne dot eu http://www.infos-reseaux.com ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] tagging cannons
BTW is there a tag for cannon that still go BANG now and then; historic=cannon+bang=yes? I guess fixed artillery hasn't much room in the defense of today, so it's still a historic thing. On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 10:03 PM, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net wrote: On 6/3/13 3:49 PM, René Kirchhoff wrote: Hello, why do not you use 8 nodes? No Mapper previously used a area for cannons. Many OSM Mapper like more details. I also :) i could probably develop a fairly extensive taxonomy for cannons from the American Civil War. Napoleans, Parrot Rifles, Columbiads, Rodmans, you name it... richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- /emj ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Underground power lines in tunnel
Am 04.06.2013 11:15, schrieb François Lacombe: 2013/6/4 fly lowfligh...@googlemail.com: On 04.06.2013 00:26, François Lacombe wrote: Hi, I'm currently improving draft of power transmission refinement proposal and a question about underground features can't currently find answer. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Power_transmission_refinement I wonder how we can map power lines underground and infrastructure which can host them simultaneously. The best example is when several power lines are built in a tunnel like on this photo : http://www.rte-france.com/webapp/100ansparis/img/chapitre3/img14.jpg I can create several ways, very close from each other, for all power lines we can see and tag them with tunnel=yes but how will I map the tunnel ? If we only use tunnel=yes on each power line, it's impossible to know if they are in the same tunnel or if there is one dedicated tunnel for each. I think only a relation would solve the problem and it's not a power line dedicated question. Do someone have ever encounter that situation ? Mmh, type=tunnel is already in use [1] but it is used for the whole tunnel, e.g. to combine several tubes and the infrastucture like escape ways and air-system. We could use a tag like tubes= or number_of_tubes= for the relation and draw the outline. Type=tunnel can suits my needs : let's add all power lines in the relation with role=through. Add tubes or not depends on the tunnel design, not on what's inside. I don't mind. The trick is to link many power lines to a single tunnel. Exactly, we need it for rails a lot as often several track run in one tunnel but it is not often used. With motorways you often find tunnels with two tubes but one name and connections plus sharing escape ways. However, it would be hard to build something in transmission refinement with it since type=tunnel proposal isn't voted yet. Don't we have something more reliable ? Sadly it is not used that often but it works quite well ! But tunnels are not well mapped across the globe (no gpx, no aerials). Cheers -- [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Proposed/Bridges_and_Tunnels ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] tagging cannons
On 04/giu/2013, at 10:12, Erik Johansson erjo...@gmail.com wrote: BTW is there a tag for cannon that still go BANG now and then; historic=cannon+bang=yes? I guess fixed artillery hasn't much room in the defense of today, so it's still a historic thing. +1, e.g. there is a cannon in Rome on the gianicolo hill that is fired once every day at noon (but I guess they don't put a ball in) in remembrance of the Italian unification. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] pastry and confectionery
I've been doing some research, perhaps towards producing a formal proposal page, of how bakery and confectionery should be handled for the United States (and perhaps some of the other English speaking countries - I hope those from Britain, Canada, Australia, etc. would identify their country and comment what works for them). I've consulted existing OSM entries, business directories, government sources, web sources, dictionaries, thesauruses, and talked with people and used personal experience. The following is written with an American view (or at least a Western American view), so when I use most people, most, all, none, or like terms please interpret it as U.S.-centric. The U.S. is the land of the supermarket. The majority of the people here have not set foot in a shop devoted to the retail sale of baked goods in the last year. Take away the national commercial bakery outlet stores (often thought of as day-old stores) and the number plummets further. As to meaning, the most common interpretation of a bakery shop is a place that sells cakes, pies, and/or pastries. Step into a shop with Bakery in the name, other than a national bakery outlet or one with Cafe and Bakery as part of the name, expecting to buy a loaf of white, brown, french, or other common yeast bread and you will be disappointed over 90% of the time. Bread is not typically thought of unless the shop name has the word Bread in it. In Colorado Springs, a city and urban area of half a million, I know of two shops which specialize in everyday loaf bread. There may be more that don't advertise in business directories. print media, or have a web presence; (ideally, OSM could become the go-to source for them). To buy everyday bread, one goes to the bread aisle of the supermarket or other general food store, or to the bakery department of such stores. The supermarkets even carry or make artisan lines of bread and sometimes feature fresh hot french bread at specific times during the day. For custom breads, one might go to a combination cafe and bakery or a delicatessen. I know California has artisan bread shops but they have not generally reached Colorado. There are artisan bakers, but they use other retail outlets to market their product. For other types of bakery goods, supermarkets are the first choice, but bakery shop is an option for the average shopper. Nationality is often associated with a bakery, Danish, Dutch, French, German, and Mexican were encountered when Ii looked at Colorado bakeries.and I'm sure many other nationalities are used with bakeries in the state of Colorado and the U.S. The only nationality association that usually featured (but not always) loaf yeast breads was French. The others did not carry it at all or it was a very minor display. Mexican bakeries typically feature tortillas (sometimes referred to in the Western U.S. as the national bread of Mexico) and may not carry loaf bread at all. Cafes with a retail bakery counter are very common, where the counter does substantial business but not enough to sustain a standalone bakery shop or where the synergy allows both to do better than as stand-alones. The bakery products are often but not always a feature of the cafe menu. I would tend to map these as two nodes within the space, amenity=cafe and shop=bakery. Catering businesses also often feature bakery counters, again double nodes seem appropriate. I would not use a shop=bakery node where a bakery counter is incidental, or very minor to the business. As for confectionery shops, most people have to think a moment as what they are, then none associate pastries with them. They think of them as places for candy or chocolates. A very few shops sell both candies and pastries, but do not call the pastries confections Finding a good name for something is often 90% of the battle of doing a data category right, and terminology is definitely a problem. The word for eat-everyday, baked unsweetened yeast dough loaf is bread. Smaller than a loaf bread is most typically called a roll. But, bread also has a general meaning that includes egg bread, sweetened bread, holiday bread, quick bread, etc. Baked goods is interpreted by some to include pizzas, calzones, and other products, but these same people would not go to a bakery for these products. Bakery goods would not be interpreted by most to include pizzas and the like, but is not commonly used. There is not a good term for the group of sweetened bread, and non-bread/non-roll bakery products. To most people, pastries does not include cakes, cookies, and some other non-bread baked dough. Some separate out pies and tarts from pastries, but most would not be mislead by including them as pastries. So the solution should not be bread and pastries; but bread, pastries, and other categories. Notes: Even everyday bread often uses a small amount of some sweetener, here I use non-sweetened to mean not characterized by a noticeably sweet or dessert like taste. I would include within
Re: [Tagging] tagging cannons
Disused=yes for non functional cannons and disused=no for functional ones sounds good to me. Janko ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Underground power lines in tunnel
On 04/giu/2013, at 08:54, Peter Wendorff wendo...@uni-paderborn.de wrote: A motorway with two separate highways in OSM may be one bridge alltogether - but is mapped as two. actually we usually don't map bridges or tunnels, there is only the indirect mapping with an attribute on the road that says: this street is on a bridge, eventually there is also a bridge_name that tells on which bridge, but still an actual bridge (or tunnel) object isn't mapped usually. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] tagging cannons
On 04/giu/2013, at 23:05, Janko Mihelić jan...@gmail.com wrote: Disused=yes for non functional cannons and disused=no for functional ones sounds good to me. -1, this approach is generally discouraged: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Disused cheers, Martin___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] tagging cannons
On 6/4/13 6:49 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: On 04/giu/2013, at 23:05, Janko Mihelić jan...@gmail.com wrote: Disused=yes for non functional cannons and disused=no for functional ones sounds good to me. -1, this approach is generally discouraged: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Disused it's also not clear of the necessity. pieces in active military service are not likely to be mapped. likewise, pieces in use by re-enactors are going to be moved around. i can think of a small number of pieces that are more-or-less static and occasionally fired, but it's such a small number... the cannons scattered around the NPS battlefield parks are nearly all disused, as are the cannons on courthouse lawns all over the country. the only static piece in the US that jumps out at me as being actively fired on occasion is the rear 3 mount on the USS Slater in Albany NY. richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
