[Tagging] Solar shop

[Dave Swarthout]

I came across a shop in my town today that sells solar power generating
equipment for home and larger scale projects, .e.g, street lighting for
municipalities. There is no tagging that I can locate other than that used
for tagging power generating facilities that use solar energy.

I am considering shop=solar
or
shop=solar_equipment
or
shop=solar_devices

Suggestions, ideas?

Cheers

Dave

-- 
Dave Swarthout
Homer, Alaska
Chiang Mai, Thailand
Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com
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Re: [Tagging] Multiple transformers

[François Lacombe]

Hi Jherome,

This mail to give you some news about "transformer banks" tagging in OSM.

I've completed the proposal started last Febuary
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Transformer_extension_proposal

There is a chapter dedicated to transformers sets, which sounds to be a
better name for what we use to call banks
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Transformer_extension_proposal#Transformer_sets

Let me know if you have any remarks
As far as I know, this won't get in conflict with existing tagging. The
document only extend things and make them more precise regarding of how
transformers work.

All the best

François

*François Lacombe*

fl dot infosreseaux At gmail dot com
www.infos-reseaux.com
@InfosReseaux 

2017-04-15 4:36 GMT+02:00 Jherome Miguel :

> It is quite the same case as like this three pole-mounted transformer bank
> in the Philippines. (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:0016jfjfEDSA_
> Taft_Avenue_MRT_Station_LRT_Footbridge_Pasay_Cityfvf_14.jpg)
>
> And for the photo Tristan referred, it is like the one from Wikimedia
> Commons that I referred, and it is actually a three-phase transformer bank
>
> They usually do not look like being independent from each other, and
> usually, the primary, secondary, or both are connected, and transformer
> banks are used to supply three-phase power where single-phase transformers
> are primarily used, like in the United States, Canada, the Philippines,
> Japan, and South Korea, and those countries primarily use single-phase
> distribution, either two-wire or three-wire. And three-phase systems are
> usually for large customers. Two, three, or more transformers on one pole
> used to supply single-phase and independent of each other, however, is
> somewhat difficult to map.
>
> Mapping each transformer in a transformer bank may be appropriate for the
> larger ones used in substations, usually for extra high voltages (345 kV,
> 380 kV, 400 kV, 500 kV, 735 kV, 750 kV, 765 kV) and AC-DC conversion in
> HVDC converter stations, but it is not appropriate for a pole-mounted bank.
> For those mounted on poles, I came up with using the transformer_bank= tag
> instead, yet, that still needs to be approved. You may include it in your
> proposal on transformers, if possible.
>
>
> On Apr 15, 2017 4:56 AM, "François Lacombe" 
> wrote:
>
> Hi Tristan,
>
> TL;DR : no
>
> I can't see your picture but I assume the transformers are fed by two
> different phases and serve the same area, it's surely a bank and
> TagaSanPedroAko have some nice ideas there
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:power%3Dtransformer
>
> If it's two independant transformers, supplying power to separate
> districts or subscribers, then it's currently difficult to use the same
> object and you may use as many nodes as transformers around a pole
>
> This problem rises for antennas on masts/tower. No nice solution so far.
>
>
> All the best in power devices mapping :)
>
> François
>
> 2017-04-14 19:44 GMT+02:00 Tristan Anderson :
>
>> Is there a way to indicate that a power pole has multiple transformers
>> such as this one?
>>
>> http://oi65.tinypic.com/2rfu8ly.jpg
>>
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Re: [Tagging] marine traffic control towers

[Volker Schmidt]

> There is no marine equivalent of Area Control Centres.



> The VTS stations that this thread refers to are usually operated by port
> authorities and only control the traffic in their jurisdictions.


I am not sure whether "my" tower is a VTS one. It is known locally as
"pilots' tower". I have not checked the signs on the door, to be honest.

Some busy sealanes (e.g. Dover Strait/Pas de Calais) are controlled by
> coastguard services as they do not control the traffic of any particular
> port.


But in any case it would be nice to agree on a generic tagging for these
prominent control-tower-like structures in ports.




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Re: [Tagging] marine traffic control towers

[Malcolm Herring]

On 30/07/2017 16:59, Volker Schmidt wrote:
I suppose Martin is referring to**the marine equivalent  of Area Control 
Centers for air traffic (ACC). But that's different from the structure I 
have in mind as it's not in visual contact with what is going on "below" 
the tower.


There is no marine equivalent of Area Control Centres. The VTS stations 
that this thread refers to are usually operated by port authorities and 
only control the traffic in their jurisdictions. Some busy sealanes 
(e.g. Dover Strait/Pas de Calais) are controlled by coastguard services 
as they do not control the traffic of any particular port.



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Re: [Tagging] marine traffic control towers

[Volker Schmidt]

I'm aware of a traffic control centre (it's  operated by the military and
> monitors all kind of traffic in the mediterranean sea, also civilian).


I suppose Martin is referring to the marine equivalent  of Area Control
Centers for air traffic (ACC). But that's different from the structure I
have in mind as it's not in visual contact with what is going on "below"
the tower. To me it looks that many harbours have this type of Lookout
place, manned by (maritime) pilots. Many of them are prominent structures
similar to airport control towers. The place Martin describes is more an
office type of place where experts sit in front of computer screens and
evaluate remote position data, like air traffic control centres.




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Re: [Tagging] marine traffic control towers

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 30. Jul 2017, at 05:56, Graeme Fitzpatrick  wrote:
> 
> Best option would appear to come under man_made


Would also fit under the proposed "seaway" key. 

I'm aware of a traffic control centre (it's  operated by the military and 
monitors all kind of traffic in the mediterranean sea, also civilian).


Cheers,
Martin 
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Re: [Tagging] Produce tags for orchards

[Jo]

After reading the discussion, I also think using produce is a sound choice
for such preset.

Polyglot

2017-07-30 11:31 GMT+02:00 Tobias Zwick :

> >> - Farmland grows plants that are harvested as a whole (i.e. with
> >>   tractors), thus the actual crop can change during the years and
> >>   even several times within a year (see crop rotation) as after the
> >>   harvest, nothing is left from the plant. On satellite imagery,
> >>   they usually appear as an acre, meadow (when fallow) or densely
> >>   planted high grass/cereals.
> >
> > That is not really the current use of these tags.  Tea plantations are
> > for example quite universally tagged landuse=farmland and not
> > landuse=orchard.  Same for strawberries i think.
>
> Hmm, how did you get this information? In taginfo, trees=tea_plants and
> crop=tea there seem to be too few usages to show the combinations:
>
> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/trees=tea_plants#overview
> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/crop=tea#overview
>
> > The wiki currently suggests tagging trees=* and optionally produce=*.  I
> > think that is a good idea.  Given the current use of tags i would
> > suggest not to recommend not to tag trees=* without community consensus
> > to abolish this tag.
>
> Well, as said, I am not suggesting to make trees deprecated, just
> arguing that the app should not add one and the same information twice
> but use just one (universal) tag. This tag seems to be "produce", people
> can always add more tags (i.e. "trees=*") later, even automatically,
> since that tag can be inferred from the other.
> But it cannot be inferred the other way round, since it has been
> mentioned that the tree-tag is not made for non-trees like
> "trees=banana_plants", "trees=strawberries" or "trees=oil_palms".
> (Even though it is currently used and documented that way, which makes
> its usage even more problematic because the documentation itself
> promotes misusage of the tag - perhaps in lack of a good alternative?).
>
> Tobias
>
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Re: [Tagging] marine traffic control towers

[Volker Schmidt]

Just a few examples, to give you an idea that these are visible landmarks:

   - The object that triggered my curiosity:

   
https://www.port.venice.it/it/la-torre-dei-piloti-del-porto-di-venezia-alta-circa-40-metri-si-trova-alla-bocca-di-porto-di-ma.html
   in OSM:
   http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/511308986


   - https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torre_di_controllo#/media/
   File:Torre_di_controllo_porto_di_Genova_2006.jpg
   

   (collapsed in an accident 10 years ago)


   - Centro De Coordinación Y Control Del Tráfico Marítimo, Lisboa, Portugal

   
http://www.floornature.es/g-byrne-centro-de-coordinacion-y-control-del-trafico-maritimo-lisboa-portugal-4108/


   - http://c8.alamy.com/comp/AGX8AM/harbor-master-control-
   tower-at-the-port-of-rotterdam-netherlands-AGX8AM.jpg
   



   - http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/abb8e861e353400e850a9c643b2499
   17/harbour-control-tower-a-coruna-galicia-spain-dd7btg.jpg
   

   in OSM:
   http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/95790514


   - http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/18af80b1666e45e2a299b855db7412
   8f/amsterdam-control-tower-at-the-port-holland-bdt7ab.jpg


   

   - http://maxpixel.freegreatpicture.com/static/
   photo/1x/Luebeck-travemuende-Control-Tower-Harbour-Entrance-2418648.jpg
   

   "Lotsenstation".
   In OSM:
   http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/157834056


   - https://folkestonejack.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/harbour_01.jpg

   - http://www.southafrica.to/transport/cruises/Starlight/
   Rhapsody/Durban-Cape-Town/images/20090131/PE/Port-Control-Tower-LARGE.JPG
   

   in OSM:
   http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/114521892#map=18/-33.95586/25.6382
   


   -
   
http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/c1657798dca240378c278f4bf74d7a2f/radar-and-radio-control-tower-port-of-algeciras-andalucia-spain-c4tc22.jpg
   in OSM:
   should be about here: http://osm.org/go/b6UcAiSME?m=

It seems that there is no consistent tagging yet.

What about tower:type=marine_traffic_control or tower:type=harbour_control
(in analogy to airport_control).





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On 30 July 2017 at 08:59, Malcolm Herring 
wrote:

> On 29/07/2017 09:39, Volker Schmidt wrote:
>
>> What's the correct term and tagging for marine traffic control towers or
>> similar buildings?
>>
>>
> No tags have been defined as far as I know. This may of help:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vessel_traffic_service
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] Produce tags for orchards

[Tobias Zwick]

>> - Farmland grows plants that are harvested as a whole (i.e. with
>>   tractors), thus the actual crop can change during the years and
>>   even several times within a year (see crop rotation) as after the
>>   harvest, nothing is left from the plant. On satellite imagery,
>>   they usually appear as an acre, meadow (when fallow) or densely
>>   planted high grass/cereals.
>
> That is not really the current use of these tags.  Tea plantations are
> for example quite universally tagged landuse=farmland and not
> landuse=orchard.  Same for strawberries i think.

Hmm, how did you get this information? In taginfo, trees=tea_plants and
crop=tea there seem to be too few usages to show the combinations:

https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/trees=tea_plants#overview
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/crop=tea#overview

> The wiki currently suggests tagging trees=* and optionally produce=*.  I 
> think that is a good idea.  Given the current use of tags i would 
> suggest not to recommend not to tag trees=* without community consensus 
> to abolish this tag.

Well, as said, I am not suggesting to make trees deprecated, just
arguing that the app should not add one and the same information twice
but use just one (universal) tag. This tag seems to be "produce", people
can always add more tags (i.e. "trees=*") later, even automatically,
since that tag can be inferred from the other.
But it cannot be inferred the other way round, since it has been
mentioned that the tree-tag is not made for non-trees like
"trees=banana_plants", "trees=strawberries" or "trees=oil_palms".
(Even though it is currently used and documented that way, which makes
its usage even more problematic because the documentation itself
promotes misusage of the tag - perhaps in lack of a good alternative?).

Tobias

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Re: [Tagging] Produce tags for orchards

[Warin]

On 30-Jul-17 04:47 PM, Marc Gemis wrote:
How do you map individual plants with berries of patches with herbs? I 
need this for a smal garden with 1 Strawberry plant and 1 grape plant. 
For the apple and learn trees in the garden  I can use the tree tag 
with genus/taxon. Don't know what to use for the non-trees.


m



My present thought is to use a new key 'plant' ... this could encompass 
trees, shrubs, herbs etc.

However ..I'm still thinking about it.
It does not encompass fungi e.g. mushrooms.

The key 'genus' is not limited to trees... so you can use that for 
anything suitable e.g. landcover=grass


---
I'd a long way from mapping individual plants .. looking at an area of 
trees some 500 km long 200 km wide.




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Re: [Tagging] marine traffic control towers

[Malcolm Herring]

On 29/07/2017 09:39, Volker Schmidt wrote:
What's the correct term and tagging for marine traffic control towers or 
similar buildings?




No tags have been defined as far as I know. This may of help: 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vessel_traffic_service



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Re: [Tagging] Produce tags for orchards

[Marc Gemis]

How do you map individual plants with berries of patches with herbs? I need
this for a smal garden with 1 Strawberry plant and 1 grape plant. For the
apple and learn trees in the garden  I can use the tree tag with
genus/taxon. Don't know what to use for the non-trees.

m

Op 30 jul. 2017 01:13 schreef "Warin" <61sundow...@gmail.com>:

> On 30-Jul-17 12:04 AM, Tobias Zwick wrote:
>
>> Thanks for your answers. It looks like it is pretty clear what is the
>> currently accepted tag for orchards then. As for the difference between
>> orchard and farmland - ignoring plantation for its missing documentation
>> and very rare use -, we identified the following key differences between
>> orchard and farmland which should be very clear:
>>
>> - In an orchard, plants are cultivated which are perennial, the plants
>>have continuance. Usually only the fruit of the plants are picked.
>>From satellite imagery, orchards usually appear as systematically
>>planted bushes/trees or rows of hedges separated by corridors (for
>>machines/workers)
>>
>> - Farmland grows plants that are harvested as a whole (i.e. with
>>tractors), thus the actual crop can change during the years and
>>even several times within a year (see crop rotation) as after the
>>harvest, nothing is left from the plant. On satellite imagery,
>>they usually appear as an acre, meadow (when fallow) or densely
>>planted high grass/cereals.
>>
>
> Some orchards are harvested using tractors too...  so that is not a
> deciding factor of orchard to farmland.
>
>
> Crop rotation can be tagged using multiple values
>
> e.g. produce=wheat;barley Farmers will follow market trends compatible
> with their equipment and farm soil/climate .. fairly consistent choices for
> them.
>
>
>> Apart from that, I generally agree with those that answered that they
>> would prefer "produce" - for the same reasons. Especially for things
>> like oil_palms, banana_plants, coffee_plants, vanilla_plants, the
>> various types of berries etc. the "trees" key does not really fit.
>>
>> Moving forward, would anyone think that "produce" is definitely the
>> wrong key to use for detailing on the produce/crop/type of orchards? (I
>> am not rallying to make the other two keys deprecated here, this is just
>> about which of the three keys the app should use to add a tag.)
>>
>
> The keys 'tree' and 'crop' are not universal to the output of 'farms' eg
> oysters, where as the key 'produce' looks to be universal.
>
> The key 'tree' is being misused to tag things that are not trees e.g.
> strawberry plants.
>
> A mapper sees plants in a field and they are worth mapping.
> But in terms of what comes out the farm gate, the produce key is best.
>
>
>> Greetings
>> Tobias
>>
>> P.S: Here is a list of different types of produce (of orchards aka
>> plantations) we identified. Currently mostly "translated" to the
>> "trees"-tagging:
>> https://github.com/rugk/crops-parser/blob/master/osmcrops.csv
>>
>
> The list is for the key 'crop'.
>
> And it contains some that could be better - e.g.  crop=walnut_trees ...
> the tree is not the crop/produce.
>
> It may be possible to have a more structured approach as the table hints
> at with crop=nut.
>
> For example
>
> produce=nut
>
> nut=walnut
>
> produce=vegetable
>
> vegetable=tomato
>
> The OSMwiki page on produce has some more thoughts .. (at least some are
> mine - use with caution!)
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:produce
>
>
>
>> On 27/07/2017 23:05, Christoph Hormann wrote:
>>
>>> On Thursday 27 July 2017, Tobias Zwick wrote:
>>>
 Together with Roland Krüger, I am in the process of letting users of
 StreetComplete, a surveyor app for OpenStreetMap, specify the produce
 of orchards.[1]
 We did a lot of research on which plants are grown on orchards [2]
 and are now at the point where we need to decide how these should be
 tagged.

 Unfortunately, there are *three* competing keys to describe basically
 the same things (for orchards). Neither of these is deprecated, all
 are in use: trees, crop and produce.

>>> Taginfo is your friend to find out what tags are most commonly used.
>>>
>>> It tells you on
>>>
>>> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/landuse=orchard#combinations
>>>
>>> landuse=orchard + trees=*: 82k cases
>>> landuse=orchard + crop=*: 4.9k cases
>>> landuse=orchard + produce=*: 2.9 cases
>>>
>>> and you can also see that genus=* and species=* are much more common
>>> than crop=* or produce=*.
>>>
>>> If you look at:
>>>
>>> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/crop#values
>>>
>>> You can see that this tag is most commonly used for farmland.
>>>
>>> If you look down the list you can also spot 945 cases of
>>> crop=bananas,_papapyas,_mangos
>>>
>>> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/crop=bananas%2C_papap
>>> yas%2C_mangos
>>>
>>> which - if you follow the link to overpass turbo - turn out to all be on
>>> an island in Nicaragua in combination with