Re: [Tagging] Tagging fraction house numbers?

[Johnparis]

I think Google, at least, is aware of it and made a decision not to use the
½.

In another project, I gained some experience with their mapping API, and
the lack of ½ (and bis, etc.) caused some headaches when trying to geocode
addresses. For your example, trying to resolve 40½ Rue de Carillon gives a
"partial match" and returns just the geocode for "Rue de Carillon", not
even "40 Rue de Carillon".

https://www.google.ca/maps/search/40%C2%BD+Rue+de+Carillon,+Gatineau,+QC+J8X+2N7,+Canada/@45.4284038,-75.7238724,19z/data=!3m1!4b1

So for the other project, we had to strip out the numerical modifiers (½,
bis ...) before trying to geocode. We could have tried to interpolate but
that would have created other headaches.



On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 9:41 PM, James  wrote:

> https://www.google.ca/maps/place/40+Rue+de+Carillon,+Gatinea
> u,+QC+J8X+2N7/@45.4286021,-75.7232533,19z/data=!4m2!3m1!
> 1s0x4cce048bb61faba1:0x6e537799a3a8fb18
>
> Google just removes the ½ and only resolves the 40.
>
> Same with bing:
> https://binged.it/2FAlwVK
>
> Same with Here maps:
> https://wego.here.com/canada/gatineau/street-square/40-rue-
> de-carillon--loc-dmVyc2lvbj0xO3RpdGxlPTQwK1J1ZS
> tkZStDYXJpbGxvbjtsYW5nPWZyO2xhdD00NS40Mjg1MzkyNzYxMjMwNTtsb2
> 49LTc1LjcyMzE5NzkzNzAxMTcyO3N0cmVldD1SdWUrZGUrQ2FyaWxsb247aG
> 91c2U9NDA7Y2l0eT1HYXRpbmVhdTtwb3N0YWxDb2RlPUo4WCsyTjc7Y291bn
> RyeT1DQU47ZGlzdHJpY3Q9UXVhcnRpZXIrZGUrSHVsbDtzdGF0ZT1RdWViZW
> M7c3RhdGVDb2RlPVFDO2NvdW50eT1HYXRpbmVhdTtjYXRlZ29yeUlkPWJ1aW
> xkaW5nO3NvdXJjZVN5c3RlbT1pbnRlcm5hbDtubGF0PTQ1LjQyODUzMTY0Nj
> cyODUxNjtubG9uPS03NS43MjMzNTA1MjQ5MDIzNA?map=45.42838,-75.
> 72271,19,normal=40%20Rue%20de%20Carillon
>
> I'm thinking they are not aware of it
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 12, 2018, 4:12 PM Michał Brzozowski, 
> wrote:
>
>> I'd look how other map providers solved this.
>>
>> On a side note, why I've never see such phrase on this list? We'd figure
>> out many problems by looking how others do things. There's nothing wrong
>> with it.
>>
>> Michał
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 8:06 PM, Brad Neuhauser > > wrote:
>>
>>> I found it hard to pull out usage of "1/2" through taginfo, but was able
>>> to search for usage of the UTF-8 version (½):
>>> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=%C2%BD#values It's used very
>>> few times (~200) and many are by the same user, which seems like more
>>> argument against using UTF-8.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 11:17 AM, James  wrote:
>>>
 so far the fractions I've seen are ½ and ¾ and ¼. On phones it's very
 easy to input fraction in unicode(press and hold the numerical value of the
 numerator: 1 for ½, ¼ or 2 for ⅔), but I agree that dealing with Bom of
 UTF-8 usually ends up being messed up and is why I'm asking what the norm
 for OSM is

 On Mon, Mar 12, 2018, 12:04 PM Vladimír Slávik, <
 slavik.vladi...@seznam.cz> wrote:

> Technical: Unicode will be hard to manipulate by hand without a table
> of characters/symbols to copy from. Subsequent editors or users down the
> chain of tools will break it. Most prominently, search may break, because
> users will not know how to input 1/2. (Oh look, I just didn't, either...).
>
> Is it common to have more complicated fractions? Here we append
> letters to do the same, and I have seen places where they had to go all 
> the
> way to "h" - which would be 1/8 for you? Or 8/8? Does unicode even have
> 8/8? I haven't been able to find a decisive answer.
> -- Původní e-mail --
> Od: James 
> Komu: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools <
> tagging@openstreetmap.org>
> Datum: 12. 3. 2018 16:46:40
> Předmět: [Tagging] Tagging fraction house numbers?
>
> https://i.imgur.com/eigT5hX_d.jpg?maxwidth=640=thumb
> idelity=medium
>
> How should this be tagged in housenumber? Using unicode ( ½ ) or
> ASCII( 1/2 )?
>
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Re: [Tagging] Tagging request: missing admin_level tags

[Yuri Astrakhan]

Paul Norman wrote OSMBorder  about a
year ago to help with the border drawing. It generates a pgsql table with
line strings (not polygons), each way having the lowest value for the
"admin level". So if a way belongs to both a country and a city border, the
table will have just one way instance, with the lowest admin_level of the
two usages. Also, the polygon is not required to be closed, so broken
relations continue to be drawn properly for most of the map.

P.S. I also think that duplicating information like admin_level inside a
way and in a relation is a bad practice. I think it came about due to the
limitations in the viewing software, and should be solved with proper tools
(web site, josm, iD, etc), rather than having dups that often go out of
sync.

On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 9:52 AM, Dave F  wrote:

> Yes, but again, irrelevant to this thread.
>
>
> On 12/03/2018 13:44, Jo wrote:
>
> Except of course, when the boundary is disputed, then there might be
> overlap and possibly even holes of no man's land?
>
> Polyglot
>
> 2018-03-12 13:41 GMT+01:00 Dave F :
>
>> OK, I understand what you're trying to highlight, but don't see it as
>> relevant to this thread.
>> But anyway, the "boundary between two countries" can be distinguished as
>> they'll have two relations with boundary data whereas "the high seas"
>> boundary will only have one.
>>
>> DaveF.
>>
>> On 12/03/2018 00:17, Christoph Hormann wrote:
>>
>>> On Monday 12 March 2018, Dave F wrote:
>>>
 and it would not distinguish between the outer boundaries (towards
> the high seas)
> and the boundaries between two countries.
>
 Unsure what you mean. Could you elaborate, Example?

 Sure:
>>>
>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/96104334
>>>
>>> is an outer maritime boundary at 12 mile distance from the baseline
>>> separating the territorial waters from the high seas.
>>>
>>> OTOH
>>>
>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/54749533
>>>
>>> is a maritime boundary between two countries.
>>>
>>> You might say this difference is not of practical importance for data
>>> users but there are for example many maps which generally do not show
>>> the first type of boundary but which do show (at least partly) the
>>> second type of boundary.  Like this:
>>>
>>> http://legacy.lib.utexas.edu/maps/cia16/denmark_sm_2016.gif
>>>
>>> You can of course determine this difference from the spatial
>>> relationship of the boundary relations.
>>>
>>>
>>
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Re: [Tagging] Rubberised playground surface

[Warin]

On 3/13/2018 7:51 AM, Kevin Kenny wrote:

On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 4:37 PM, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

What is being tagged is the"softfall" function.

There are various products that provide this feature.

In a playground it is a safety feature, outside a pubs basement access it is
a feature that reduces the possibility of damage to kegs.


surface:function=softfall ???

Or surface=elastomer?


Other surfaces that have the required softfall function?

Bark, sand, grass ... so it is not a surface covering but a surface function ?

https://barkblower.com.au/products/softfall-products/

https://www.ozbreed.com.au/other-turf-products/living-soft-fall/

http://softfallguys.com/prod_desc.php?cid=261



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Re: [Tagging] Rubberised playground surface

[Kevin Kenny]

On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 4:37 PM, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
> What is being tagged is the"softfall" function.
>
> There are various products that provide this feature.
>
> In a playground it is a safety feature, outside a pubs basement access it is
> a feature that reduces the possibility of damage to kegs.
>
>
> surface:function=softfall ???

Or surface=elastomer?

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Re: [Tagging] Tagging fraction house numbers?

[James]

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/40+Rue+de+Carillon,+
Gatineau,+QC+J8X+2N7/@45.4286021,-75.7232533,19z/data=!
4m2!3m1!1s0x4cce048bb61faba1:0x6e537799a3a8fb18

Google just removes the ½ and only resolves the 40.

Same with bing:
https://binged.it/2FAlwVK

Same with Here maps:
https://wego.here.com/canada/gatineau/street-square/40-rue-de-carillon--loc-dmVyc2lvbj0xO3RpdGxlPTQwK1J1ZStkZStDYXJpbGxvbjtsYW5nPWZyO2xhdD00NS40Mjg1MzkyNzYxMjMwNTtsb249LTc1LjcyMzE5NzkzNzAxMTcyO3N0cmVldD1SdWUrZGUrQ2FyaWxsb247aG91c2U9NDA7Y2l0eT1HYXRpbmVhdTtwb3N0YWxDb2RlPUo4WCsyTjc7Y291bnRyeT1DQU47ZGlzdHJpY3Q9UXVhcnRpZXIrZGUrSHVsbDtzdGF0ZT1RdWViZWM7c3RhdGVDb2RlPVFDO2NvdW50eT1HYXRpbmVhdTtjYXRlZ29yeUlkPWJ1aWxkaW5nO3NvdXJjZVN5c3RlbT1pbnRlcm5hbDtubGF0PTQ1LjQyODUzMTY0NjcyODUxNjtubG9uPS03NS43MjMzNTA1MjQ5MDIzNA?map=45.42838,-75.72271,19,normal=40%20Rue%20de%20Carillon

I'm thinking they are not aware of it



On Mon, Mar 12, 2018, 4:12 PM Michał Brzozowski, 
wrote:

> I'd look how other map providers solved this.
>
> On a side note, why I've never see such phrase on this list? We'd figure
> out many problems by looking how others do things. There's nothing wrong
> with it.
>
> Michał
>
> On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 8:06 PM, Brad Neuhauser 
> wrote:
>
>> I found it hard to pull out usage of "1/2" through taginfo, but was able
>> to search for usage of the UTF-8 version (½):
>> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=%C2%BD#values It's used very
>> few times (~200) and many are by the same user, which seems like more
>> argument against using UTF-8.
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 11:17 AM, James  wrote:
>>
>>> so far the fractions I've seen are ½ and ¾ and ¼. On phones it's very
>>> easy to input fraction in unicode(press and hold the numerical value of the
>>> numerator: 1 for ½, ¼ or 2 for ⅔), but I agree that dealing with Bom of
>>> UTF-8 usually ends up being messed up and is why I'm asking what the norm
>>> for OSM is
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 12, 2018, 12:04 PM Vladimír Slávik, <
>>> slavik.vladi...@seznam.cz> wrote:
>>>
 Technical: Unicode will be hard to manipulate by hand without a table
 of characters/symbols to copy from. Subsequent editors or users down the
 chain of tools will break it. Most prominently, search may break, because
 users will not know how to input 1/2. (Oh look, I just didn't, either...).

 Is it common to have more complicated fractions? Here we append letters
 to do the same, and I have seen places where they had to go all the way to
 "h" - which would be 1/8 for you? Or 8/8? Does unicode even have 8/8? I
 haven't been able to find a decisive answer.
 -- Původní e-mail --
 Od: James 
 Komu: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools <
 tagging@openstreetmap.org>
 Datum: 12. 3. 2018 16:46:40
 Předmět: [Tagging] Tagging fraction house numbers?

 https://i.imgur.com/eigT5hX_d.jpg?maxwidth=640=thumb;
 fidelity=medium

 How should this be tagged in housenumber? Using unicode ( ½ ) or ASCII(
 1/2 )?

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Re: [Tagging] Rubberised playground surface

[Warin]

What is being tagged is the"softfall" function.

There are various products that provide this feature.

In a playground it is a safety feature, outside a pubs basement access 
it is a feature that reduces the possibility of damage to kegs.



surface:function=softfall ???


On 3/13/2018 7:26 AM, Tom Pfeifer wrote:

On 12.03.2018 14:13, Andy Mabbett wrote:

On 12.03.2018 13:03, Andy Mabbett wrote:



Suggestions, please, for tagging the surface underneath playground
items like swings and slides, which is made of a soft, rubber-like
material.

I've used surface=rubber, for now, but that's not really accurate.



It might help to describe why you feel it is not accurate?


Because it's not rubber.


It might help even more if you tell us what it is, not what it is not :-)

Thus, I cannot follow what you are trying to find.

I'd consider 'rubber' as a generic term for a group of elastic 
materials. If you want to distinguish if that is natural, or silicone, 
or caoutchouc, or butadiene rubber, feel free to propose a sub-tag.


For the playground user, the only difference would be if it is a 
compact elastic surface, or loose rubber chips/crumbles the offspring 
falls onto.


Similarly, I would not want to analyse which minerals are ground into 
the filling of the sandpit.


tom

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Re: [Tagging] Rubberised playground surface

[Tom Pfeifer]

On 12.03.2018 14:13, Andy Mabbett wrote:

On 12.03.2018 13:03, Andy Mabbett wrote:



Suggestions, please, for tagging the surface underneath playground
items like swings and slides, which is made of a soft, rubber-like
material.

I've used surface=rubber, for now, but that's not really accurate.



It might help to describe why you feel it is not accurate?


Because it's not rubber.


It might help even more if you tell us what it is, not what it is not :-)

Thus, I cannot follow what you are trying to find.

I'd consider 'rubber' as a generic term for a group of elastic materials. If you want to distinguish 
if that is natural, or silicone, or caoutchouc, or butadiene rubber, feel free to propose a sub-tag.


For the playground user, the only difference would be if it is a compact elastic surface, or loose 
rubber chips/crumbles the offspring falls onto.


Similarly, I would not want to analyse which minerals are ground into the 
filling of the sandpit.

tom

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Re: [Tagging] Tagging fraction house numbers?

[Michał Brzozowski]

I'd look how other map providers solved this.

On a side note, why I've never see such phrase on this list? We'd figure
out many problems by looking how others do things. There's nothing wrong
with it.

Michał

On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 8:06 PM, Brad Neuhauser 
wrote:

> I found it hard to pull out usage of "1/2" through taginfo, but was able
> to search for usage of the UTF-8 version (½):
> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=%C2%BD#values It's used very
> few times (~200) and many are by the same user, which seems like more
> argument against using UTF-8.
>
> On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 11:17 AM, James  wrote:
>
>> so far the fractions I've seen are ½ and ¾ and ¼. On phones it's very
>> easy to input fraction in unicode(press and hold the numerical value of the
>> numerator: 1 for ½, ¼ or 2 for ⅔), but I agree that dealing with Bom of
>> UTF-8 usually ends up being messed up and is why I'm asking what the norm
>> for OSM is
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 12, 2018, 12:04 PM Vladimír Slávik, <
>> slavik.vladi...@seznam.cz> wrote:
>>
>>> Technical: Unicode will be hard to manipulate by hand without a table of
>>> characters/symbols to copy from. Subsequent editors or users down the chain
>>> of tools will break it. Most prominently, search may break, because users
>>> will not know how to input 1/2. (Oh look, I just didn't, either...).
>>>
>>> Is it common to have more complicated fractions? Here we append letters
>>> to do the same, and I have seen places where they had to go all the way to
>>> "h" - which would be 1/8 for you? Or 8/8? Does unicode even have 8/8? I
>>> haven't been able to find a decisive answer.
>>> -- Původní e-mail --
>>> Od: James 
>>> Komu: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools <
>>> tagging@openstreetmap.org>
>>> Datum: 12. 3. 2018 16:46:40
>>> Předmět: [Tagging] Tagging fraction house numbers?
>>>
>>> https://i.imgur.com/eigT5hX_d.jpg?maxwidth=640=thumb
>>> idelity=medium
>>>
>>> How should this be tagged in housenumber? Using unicode ( ½ ) or ASCII(
>>> 1/2 )?
>>>
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Re: [Tagging] Tagging fraction house numbers?

[Brad Neuhauser]

I found it hard to pull out usage of "1/2" through taginfo, but was able to
search for usage of the UTF-8 version (½):
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=%C2%BD#values It's used very few
times (~200) and many are by the same user, which seems like more argument
against using UTF-8.

On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 11:17 AM, James  wrote:

> so far the fractions I've seen are ½ and ¾ and ¼. On phones it's very easy
> to input fraction in unicode(press and hold the numerical value of the
> numerator: 1 for ½, ¼ or 2 for ⅔), but I agree that dealing with Bom of
> UTF-8 usually ends up being messed up and is why I'm asking what the norm
> for OSM is
>
> On Mon, Mar 12, 2018, 12:04 PM Vladimír Slávik, 
> wrote:
>
>> Technical: Unicode will be hard to manipulate by hand without a table of
>> characters/symbols to copy from. Subsequent editors or users down the chain
>> of tools will break it. Most prominently, search may break, because users
>> will not know how to input 1/2. (Oh look, I just didn't, either...).
>>
>> Is it common to have more complicated fractions? Here we append letters
>> to do the same, and I have seen places where they had to go all the way to
>> "h" - which would be 1/8 for you? Or 8/8? Does unicode even have 8/8? I
>> haven't been able to find a decisive answer.
>> -- Původní e-mail --
>> Od: James 
>> Komu: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools <
>> tagging@openstreetmap.org>
>> Datum: 12. 3. 2018 16:46:40
>> Předmět: [Tagging] Tagging fraction house numbers?
>>
>> https://i.imgur.com/eigT5hX_d.jpg?maxwidth=640=thumb;
>> fidelity=medium
>>
>> How should this be tagged in housenumber? Using unicode ( ½ ) or ASCII(
>> 1/2 )?
>>
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Re: [Tagging] Tagging fraction house numbers?

[Kevin Kenny]

On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 2:23 PM,   wrote:
> Actually, that can easily happen if you have 1½ but some software wants to 
> convert it to simple ASCII and doesn't add a space between the 1 and 1/2 when 
> converting the ½. While if the original text already is "1 1/2" this doesn't 
> happen.
>
> Obviously, in a perfect world, where everything is Unicode and stays Unicode, 
> I would agree that using ½ is better than 1/2. Unfortunately, we still have 
> to often assume that a string will get converted from Unicode into ASCII or 
> some specific ANSI codepage.


There are very few projects that are as global in scope as OpenStreetMap.

If we can't presume that Unicode works in our pipeline, there's little
hope for us; we already have to deal with a great many names in
non-Latin scripts.

I'm all for 1½ or 1¹⁄₂ (two different ways of writing it; there are
other possibilities like 1⅟₂ but normalization should take care of all
of them.)

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Re: [Tagging] Tagging fraction house numbers?

[osm.tagging]

Actually, that can easily happen if you have 1½ but some software wants to 
convert it to simple ASCII and doesn't add a space between the 1 and 1/2 when 
converting the ½. While if the original text already is "1 1/2" this doesn't 
happen.

Obviously, in a perfect world, where everything is Unicode and stays Unicode, I 
would agree that using ½ is better than 1/2. Unfortunately, we still have to 
often assume that a string will get converted from Unicode into ASCII or some 
specific ANSI codepage.


> -Original Message-
> From: Andrew Hain 
> Sent: Tuesday, 13 March 2018 03:16
> To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
> 
> Subject: Re: [Tagging] Tagging fraction house numbers?
> 
> Unicode fractions have an important advantage: they can’t run into a
> previous number, 1½ rather than 11/2.
> 
> --
> Andrew
> 
> 
> From: James 
> Sent: 12 March 2018 15:43:33
> To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
> Subject: [Tagging] Tagging fraction house numbers?
> 
> https://i.imgur.com/eigT5hX_d.jpg?maxwidth=640=thumb=
> medium
> 
> How should this be tagged in housenumber? Using unicode ( ½ ) or
> ASCII( 1/2 )?
> 
> 
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Re: [Tagging] How to tag sports halls?

[Hufkratzer]

I thought in OSM we do not map temporary things like people playing 
something in sports halls (use of sports halls) but only verifiable 
things like the permanent equipment that allows them to do it. But 
anyway it is probably better to document the leisure=sports_hall tag. So 
I have begun to prepare a proposal for such a documentation:, see 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/leisure=sports_hall .


The main reason why it's still a draft and not a proposal is that I 
don't know for what kinds of sports halls (apart from the typical small 
sport=multi halls) the tag shall be allowed to use. As mentioned 
previously, the tag has already been used for a tennis hall once. Is 
that a correct use of the tag leisure=sports_hall in your opinion? Does 
the combination leisure=sports_hall + sport=tennis really identify a 
tennis hall? Isn't that just a sports hall with tennis courts inside of 
which one doesn't know for what kind of sport it is really used?


So how to continue? Allow to use the tag leisure=sports_hall also for 
tennis halls, swimming halls, riding halls ... and add corresponding 
examples there, or restrict it to typical sports halls and make separate 
proposals for leisure=swimming_hall, leisure=tennis_hall, 
leisure=riding_hall, ...?



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Re: [Tagging] Tagging fraction house numbers?

[Andrew Hain]

Unicode fractions have an important advantage: they can’t run into a previous 
number, 1½ rather than 11/2.

--
Andrew


From: James 
Sent: 12 March 2018 15:43:33
To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
Subject: [Tagging] Tagging fraction house numbers?

https://i.imgur.com/eigT5hX_d.jpg?maxwidth=640=thumb=medium

How should this be tagged in housenumber? Using unicode ( ½ ) or ASCII( 1/2 )?


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Re: [Tagging] Campaniles tagging

[Dave F]

Shouldn't these be tagged as a subset of bell_tower?

On 12/03/2018 06:54, Tomasz Wójcik wrote:


Currently there are 2 tags for campaniles, which has no difference 
between each other:


* man_made=tower + tower:type=campanile
* man_made=campanile

I think we should move "man_made=campanile" to "man_made=tower + 
tower:type=campanile" combination, which will mach to the rest of a 
towers tagging scheme:


https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:tower:type



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Re: [Tagging] Tagging fraction house numbers?

[James]

so far the fractions I've seen are ½ and ¾ and ¼. On phones it's very easy
to input fraction in unicode(press and hold the numerical value of the
numerator: 1 for ½, ¼ or 2 for ⅔), but I agree that dealing with Bom of
UTF-8 usually ends up being messed up and is why I'm asking what the norm
for OSM is

On Mon, Mar 12, 2018, 12:04 PM Vladimír Slávik, 
wrote:

> Technical: Unicode will be hard to manipulate by hand without a table of
> characters/symbols to copy from. Subsequent editors or users down the chain
> of tools will break it. Most prominently, search may break, because users
> will not know how to input 1/2. (Oh look, I just didn't, either...).
>
> Is it common to have more complicated fractions? Here we append letters to
> do the same, and I have seen places where they had to go all the way to "h"
> - which would be 1/8 for you? Or 8/8? Does unicode even have 8/8? I haven't
> been able to find a decisive answer.
> -- Původní e-mail --
> Od: James 
> Komu: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools <
> tagging@openstreetmap.org>
> Datum: 12. 3. 2018 16:46:40
> Předmět: [Tagging] Tagging fraction house numbers?
>
> https://i.imgur.com/eigT5hX_d.jpg?maxwidth=640=thumb=medium
>
> How should this be tagged in housenumber? Using unicode ( ½ ) or ASCII(
> 1/2 )?
>
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Re: [Tagging] Tagging fraction house numbers?

[José G Moya Y .]

Here in Spain it is more usual 40 bis, 40 dup, 40-2, 40b/c/d... but seeing
this scheme I understand the "platform 8 1/2" in Harry Potter.

I would tag address number without special chars. I don't know wich set of
ascii does the government use in your country. In mine, the abbreviation
for "street" passed from "c/" to "CL" with the popularization of computers
in the government (despite of 7-bit ASCII having a sign for "/").

El 12/3/2018 17:04, "Vladimír Slávik"  escribió:

> Technical: Unicode will be hard to manipulate by hand without a table of
> characters/symbols to copy from. Subsequent editors or users down the chain
> of tools will break it. Most prominently, search may break, because users
> will not know how to input 1/2. (Oh look, I just didn't, either...).
>
> Is it common to have more complicated fractions? Here we append letters to
> do the same, and I have seen places where they had to go all the way to "h"
> - which would be 1/8 for you? Or 8/8? Does unicode even have 8/8? I haven't
> been able to find a decisive answer.
> -- Původní e-mail --
> Od: James 
> Komu: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools <
> tagging@openstreetmap.org>
> Datum: 12. 3. 2018 16:46:40
> Předmět: [Tagging] Tagging fraction house numbers?
>
> https://i.imgur.com/eigT5hX_d.jpg?maxwidth=640=thumb=medium
>
> How should this be tagged in housenumber? Using unicode ( ½ ) or ASCII(
> 1/2 )?
>
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>
>
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Re: [Tagging] Tagging fraction house numbers?

[Michael Reichert]

Hi James,

Am 2018-03-12 um 16:43 schrieb James:
> https://i.imgur.com/eigT5hX_d.jpg?maxwidth=640=thumb=medium
> 
> How should this be tagged in housenumber? Using unicode ( ½ ) or ASCII( 1/2
> )?

Augsburg (Germany) has such house numbers. They use ASCII representation.

Best regards

Michael

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Re: [Tagging] Rubberised playground surface

[osm.tagging]

After googling a bit, the term I see most often is either "wet pour rubber" or 
"softfall rubber".

> -Original Message-
> From: Toby Murray 
> Sent: Tuesday, 13 March 2018 01:55
> To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
> 
> Subject: Re: [Tagging] Rubberised playground surface
> 
> I think I may have used surface=tartan before but I am not sure this
> is actually correct. While they are both rubberized surfaces, I
> think tartan is much firmer since its purpose is to facilitate
> traction, not avoiding injury from falls.
> 
> Toby
> 
> On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 8:13 AM, Andy Mabbett
>  wrote:
> > On 12 March 2018 at 12:53, Tom Pfeifer 
> wrote:
> >> On 12.03.2018 13:03, Andy Mabbett wrote:
> >
> >>> Suggestions, please, for tagging the surface underneath
> playground
> >>> items like swings and slides, which is made of a soft, rubber-
> like
> >>> material.
> >>>
> >>> I've used surface=rubber, for now, but that's not really
> accurate.
> >
> >> It might help to describe why you feel it is not accurate?
> >
> > Because it's not rubber.
> >
> > --
> > Andy Mabbett
> > @pigsonthewing
> > http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
> >
> > ___
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Re: [Tagging] Tagging fraction house numbers?

[Vladimír Slávik]

Technical: Unicode will be hard to manipulate by hand without a table of 
characters/symbols to copy from. Subsequent editors or users down the chain
of tools will break it. Most prominently, search may break, because users 
will not know how to input 1/2. (Oh look, I just didn't, either...).

Is it common to have more complicated fractions? Here we append letters to
do the same, and I have seen places where they had to go all the way to "h"
- which would be 1/8 for you? Or 8/8? Does unicode even have 8/8? I haven't
been able to find a decisive answer.
-- Původní e-mail --
Od: James 
Komu: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools 
Datum: 12. 3. 2018 16:46:40
Předmět: [Tagging] Tagging fraction house numbers?
"

https://i.imgur.com/eigT5hX_d.jpg?maxwidth=640=thumb=medium
(https://i.imgur.com/eigT5hX_d.jpg?maxwidth=640=thumb=medium)




How should this be tagged in housenumber? Using unicode ( ½ ) or ASCII( 1/2
)?




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Re: [Tagging] Rubberised playground surface

[Toby Murray]

I think I may have used surface=tartan before but I am not sure this
is actually correct. While they are both rubberized surfaces, I think
tartan is much firmer since its purpose is to facilitate traction, not
avoiding injury from falls.

Toby

On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 8:13 AM, Andy Mabbett  wrote:
> On 12 March 2018 at 12:53, Tom Pfeifer  wrote:
>> On 12.03.2018 13:03, Andy Mabbett wrote:
>
>>> Suggestions, please, for tagging the surface underneath playground
>>> items like swings and slides, which is made of a soft, rubber-like
>>> material.
>>>
>>> I've used surface=rubber, for now, but that's not really accurate.
>
>> It might help to describe why you feel it is not accurate?
>
> Because it's not rubber.
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
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[Tagging] Tagging fraction house numbers?

[James]

https://i.imgur.com/eigT5hX_d.jpg?maxwidth=640=thumb=medium

How should this be tagged in housenumber? Using unicode ( ½ ) or ASCII( 1/2
)?
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Re: [Tagging] Campaniles tagging

[José G Moya Y .]

I think I send a message in the past about how to tag a Carillon that is
not a man_made=tower (Carillon in the wall of a building). I think I
finally put it in the tourist_attraction category.

El 12/3/2018 10:55, "Max"  escribió:

> Related information: What type of bell is in there?
> Just one, or a whole Carillon?
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Bell
> Missing info there is the material of the bells: Bronze, Glass, Porcellain
>
> On 12.03.2018 07:54, Tomasz Wójcik wrote:
> > Currently there are 2 tags for campaniles, which has no difference
> > between each other:
> >
> > * man_made=tower + tower:type=campanile
> > * man_made=campanile
> >
> > I think we should move "man_made=campanile" to "man_made=tower +
> > tower:type=campanile" combination, which will mach to the rest of a
> > towers tagging scheme:
> >
> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:tower:type
> >
>
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Re: [Tagging] Tagging request: missing admin_level tags

[Dave F]

Yes, but again, irrelevant to this thread.

On 12/03/2018 13:44, Jo wrote:
Except of course, when the boundary is disputed, then there might be 
overlap and possibly even holes of no man's land?


Polyglot

2018-03-12 13:41 GMT+01:00 Dave F >:


OK, I understand what you're trying to highlight, but don't see it
as relevant to this thread.
But anyway, the "boundary between two countries" can be
distinguished as they'll have two relations with boundary data
whereas "the high seas" boundary will only have one.

DaveF.

On 12/03/2018 00:17, Christoph Hormann wrote:

On Monday 12 March 2018, Dave F wrote:

and it would not distinguish between the outer
boundaries (towards
the high seas)
and the boundaries between two countries.

Unsure what you mean. Could you elaborate, Example?

Sure:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/96104334


is an outer maritime boundary at 12 mile distance from the
baseline
separating the territorial waters from the high seas.

OTOH

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/54749533


is a maritime boundary between two countries.

You might say this difference is not of practical importance
for data
users but there are for example many maps which generally do
not show
the first type of boundary but which do show (at least partly) the
second type of boundary.  Like this:

http://legacy.lib.utexas.edu/maps/cia16/denmark_sm_2016.gif


You can of course determine this difference from the spatial
relationship of the boundary relations.



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Re: [Tagging] Tagging request: missing admin_level tags

[Jo]

Except of course, when the boundary is disputed, then there might be
overlap and possibly even holes of no man's land?

Polyglot

2018-03-12 13:41 GMT+01:00 Dave F :

> OK, I understand what you're trying to highlight, but don't see it as
> relevant to this thread.
> But anyway, the "boundary between two countries" can be distinguished as
> they'll have two relations with boundary data whereas "the high seas"
> boundary will only have one.
>
> DaveF.
>
> On 12/03/2018 00:17, Christoph Hormann wrote:
>
>> On Monday 12 March 2018, Dave F wrote:
>>
>>> and it would not distinguish between the outer boundaries (towards
 the high seas)
 and the boundaries between two countries.

>>> Unsure what you mean. Could you elaborate, Example?
>>>
>>> Sure:
>>
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/96104334
>>
>> is an outer maritime boundary at 12 mile distance from the baseline
>> separating the territorial waters from the high seas.
>>
>> OTOH
>>
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/54749533
>>
>> is a maritime boundary between two countries.
>>
>> You might say this difference is not of practical importance for data
>> users but there are for example many maps which generally do not show
>> the first type of boundary but which do show (at least partly) the
>> second type of boundary.  Like this:
>>
>> http://legacy.lib.utexas.edu/maps/cia16/denmark_sm_2016.gif
>>
>> You can of course determine this difference from the spatial
>> relationship of the boundary relations.
>>
>>
>
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Re: [Tagging] Rubberised playground surface

[Bryan Housel]

Yes, it is typical for the long tail of tag values to be misspellings or 
variations in capitalization or dashes vs. underscores.
For each of these, there are fewer than 10 values worldwide - not really 
alarming.  I think people clean them up sometimes.

Anyway, you find all kinds of interesting stuff on taginfo :)

Thanks, Bryan



> On Mar 12, 2018, at 9:17 AM, Andy Mabbett  wrote:
> 
> "On 12 March 2018 at 13:02, Bryan Housel  wrote:
>> Searching https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/surface#values for “rubber”
>> turns up a few alternatives
> 
>> rubber 258
>> rubbercrumb 170
>> Rubber 7
>> rubberized 6
>> recycled_rubber 6
>> rubber_mulch 4
>> rubber_crumb 3
>> rubber_grass 3
> 
> Whatever the correct value turns out to be, there's an alarming level
> of redundancy there.
> 
> "Rubber" and "recycled_rubber" should both be "rubber".
> 
> "rubbercrumb" and "rubber_crumb" are clearly the same concept.
> 
> I wonder if this is typical across most of our tag values?
> 
> -- 
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> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
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Re: [Tagging] Rubberised playground surface

[Andy Mabbett]

"On 12 March 2018 at 13:02, Bryan Housel  wrote:
> Searching https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/surface#values for “rubber”
> turns up a few alternatives

> rubber 258
> rubbercrumb 170
> Rubber 7
> rubberized 6
> recycled_rubber 6
> rubber_mulch 4
> rubber_crumb 3
> rubber_grass 3

Whatever the correct value turns out to be, there's an alarming level
of redundancy there.

"Rubber" and "recycled_rubber" should both be "rubber".

"rubbercrumb" and "rubber_crumb" are clearly the same concept.

I wonder if this is typical across most of our tag values?

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Tagging] Rubberised playground surface

[Andy Mabbett]

On 12 March 2018 at 12:53, Tom Pfeifer  wrote:
> On 12.03.2018 13:03, Andy Mabbett wrote:

>> Suggestions, please, for tagging the surface underneath playground
>> items like swings and slides, which is made of a soft, rubber-like
>> material.
>>
>> I've used surface=rubber, for now, but that's not really accurate.

> It might help to describe why you feel it is not accurate?

Because it's not rubber.

-- 
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@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Tagging] Rubberised playground surface

[Bryan Housel]

Searching https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/surface#values 
 for “rubber”
turns up a few alternatives, with “rubbercrumb” having the most traction:

rubber  258
rubbercrumb 170
Rubber  7
rubberized  6
recycled_rubber 6
rubber_mulch4
rubber_crumb3
rubber_grass3




> On Mar 12, 2018, at 8:03 AM, Andy Mabbett  wrote:
> 
> Suggestions, please, for tagging the surface underneath playground
> items like swings and slides, which is made of a soft, rubber-like
> material.
> 
> I've used surface=rubber, for now, but that's not really accurate.
> 
> -- 
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
> 
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Re: [Tagging] Rubberised playground surface

[Tom Pfeifer]

On 12.03.2018 13:03, Andy Mabbett wrote:

Suggestions, please, for tagging the surface underneath playground
items like swings and slides, which is made of a soft, rubber-like
material.

I've used surface=rubber, for now, but that's not really accurate.


It might help to describe why you feel it is not accurate?

tom


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Re: [Tagging] Tagging request: missing admin_level tags

[Dave F]

OK, I understand what you're trying to highlight, but don't see it as 
relevant to this thread.
But anyway, the "boundary between two countries" can be distinguished as 
they'll have two relations with boundary data whereas "the high seas" 
boundary will only have one.


DaveF.

On 12/03/2018 00:17, Christoph Hormann wrote:

On Monday 12 March 2018, Dave F wrote:

and it would not distinguish between the outer boundaries (towards
the high seas)
and the boundaries between two countries.

Unsure what you mean. Could you elaborate, Example?


Sure:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/96104334

is an outer maritime boundary at 12 mile distance from the baseline
separating the territorial waters from the high seas.

OTOH

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/54749533

is a maritime boundary between two countries.

You might say this difference is not of practical importance for data
users but there are for example many maps which generally do not show
the first type of boundary but which do show (at least partly) the
second type of boundary.  Like this:

http://legacy.lib.utexas.edu/maps/cia16/denmark_sm_2016.gif

You can of course determine this difference from the spatial
relationship of the boundary relations.




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[Tagging] Rubberised playground surface

[Andy Mabbett]

Suggestions, please, for tagging the surface underneath playground
items like swings and slides, which is made of a soft, rubber-like
material.

I've used surface=rubber, for now, but that's not really accurate.

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Tagging] discrepancy in shop definition and "wholesale" value

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2018-03-09 19:24 GMT+01:00 Paul Johnson :

> Big box refers to the building form factor.
>


+1, big box is a building typology (literally a big box, usually
freestanding and surrounded by huge parking lots, with some mega-retail
inside).

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] Campaniles tagging

[Volker Schmidt]

There is more to this.

What's the difference between "campanile" and "bell_tower" (independently
form the tagging scheme)?
Hint: the English Wikipedia redirects to the Bell Tower page (no indication
that a "campanile" is free-standing)

The English wiki page for "man_made=campanile" says:
"A free standing bell tower, typically near a church. "
However (nearly) all bell towers in Italy, many of which are free-standing,
are tagged as bell_tower.
The English wiki page for tower:type=bell_tower says:

   - bell_tower
   

   =campanile
   

   - free standing bell tower derived from Italian *campana* - bell)
   - bell_tower
   

   =klockstapel
   

   - free standing wooden belfry (in Northern Europe)
   - bell_tower
   

   =bell_gable
   

   - flat belfry (Spanish *Espadaña*)

but the English wiki page for tower:type=campanile shows the photograph of
a klockstapel.

statistics:
man_made=tower + tower:type=campanile (164)
man_made=campanile (798)
man_made=tower and tower:type=bell_tower (10717)
man_made=bell_tower (33)
bell tower=klockstapel (15)
bell_tower=bell_gable (1)

In Northern Italy:
(man_made=tower and tower:type=campanile) or man_made=campanile (<200) (not
all of which are free-standing)
man_made=tower and tower:type=bell_tower (~6000), of which I would guess
the large majority are free-standing

Conclusion:
The wiki pages do not describe the actual use of the tags.
In particular the "campanile" tag is rarely used and most free-standing
bell towers are tagged as bell_tower (in my view the correct English term)
and not with the Italian term "campanile".

The campanile tag is used as a variant of bell_tower with no specific
distinction with regard to free-standing-ness or not.











On 12 March 2018 at 07:54, Tomasz Wójcik  wrote:

> Currently there are 2 tags for campaniles, which has no difference between
> each other:
>
> * man_made=tower + tower:type=campanile
> * man_made=campanile
>
> I think we should move "man_made=campanile" to "man_made=tower +
> tower:type=campanile" combination, which will mach to the rest of a towers
> tagging scheme:
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:tower:type
>
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Re: [Tagging] Campaniles tagging

[Simone Saviolo]

2018-03-12 7:54 GMT+01:00 Tomasz Wójcik :

> Currently there are 2 tags for campaniles, which has no difference between
> each other:
>
> * man_made=tower + tower:type=campanile
> * man_made=campanile
>
> I think we should move "man_made=campanile" to "man_made=tower +
> tower:type=campanile" combination, which will mach to the rest of a towers
> tagging scheme:
>
I agree that we should. The tower:type scheme makes more sense to me.

Regards,

Simone
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Re: [Tagging] Tagging request: missing admin_level tags

[osm.tagging]

> -Original Message-
> From: Kevin Kenny 
> Sent: Monday, 12 March 2018 11:15
> To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
> 
> Subject: Re: [Tagging] Tagging request: missing admin_level tags

> I'm glad we're in agreement here. This was my key point: the fact
> that the existing rendering technology makes implementing 'render at
> most one boundary on any given way' insanely difficult when the
> boundaries are associated with relations that the way is a member of.
> With osm2pgsql, I'm not sure that's even possible without digging
> through the slim tables, and I've certainly never managed to
> implement a rendering that gets it right.
> 
> If we can fix the main technical issue, the tagging problem becomes
> much less significant. I was hoping this discussion might bring out
> of the woodwork a programmer who's clever enough to solve it cleanly.

I believe that this open issue would probably get you most of the way towards a 
viable technical solution:

https://github.com/openstreetmap/osm2pgsql/issues/230



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[Tagging] Campaniles tagging

[Tomasz Wójcik]

Currently there are 2 tags for campaniles, which has no difference 
between each other:


* man_made=tower + tower:type=campanile
* man_made=campanile

I think we should move "man_made=campanile" to "man_made=tower + 
tower:type=campanile" combination, which will mach to the rest of a 
towers tagging scheme:


https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:tower:type

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