Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Tagging for complex junctions
We have finally 12 votes: 11 times “yes” and 1 time “no”. I think this could be considered as approved … Lukas Lukas Sommer 2014-11-02 7:57 GMT+00:00 Lukas Sommer sommer...@gmail.com: Hello. After commenting period, now is starting the voting for the junction (only) tagging at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tagging_for_complex_junctions Lukas Sommer ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Tagging for complex junctions
Just as a reminder: Voting is still open at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tagging_for_complex_junctions Lukas Lukas Sommer 2014-11-02 7:57 GMT+00:00 Lukas Sommer sommer...@gmail.com: Hello. After commenting period, now is starting the voting for the junction (only) tagging at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tagging_for_complex_junctions Lukas Sommer ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Tagging for complex junctions
On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 11:08:56AM +, Lukas Sommer wrote: Just as a reminder: Voting is still open at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tagging_for_complex_junctions question - key:junction has many more possible values than just yes for the single point variant. Are those values also allowed for junction as area? Richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Tagging for complex junctions
The proposal is only about allow “junction=yes” on areas. All other stuff stays without changes. Lukas Sommer 2014-11-11 12:08 GMT+00:00 Richard Z. ricoz@gmail.com: On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 11:08:56AM +, Lukas Sommer wrote: Just as a reminder: Voting is still open at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tagging_for_complex_junctions question - key:junction has many more possible values than just yes for the single point variant. Are those values also allowed for junction as area? Richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Tagging for complex junctions
2014-11-11 14:45 GMT+01:00 Lukas Sommer sommer...@gmail.com: The proposal is only about allow “junction=yes” on areas. All other stuff stays without changes. Would you mind explaining why you oppose more specific junction types in this proposal which apparently aims at mapping junctions in more detail? Before Richard has asked I had taken for granted that yes could have more specific values... cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Tagging for complex junctions
The most popular value for the key “junction” is “roundabout”, which can be used on closed ways, but it hasn’t the meaning of an area, but it is simply a closed way which is used together with “highway=*” and represents a road in form of a circle. So this would probably conflict with interpreting this as area. Lukas Lukas Sommer 2014-11-11 13:51 GMT+00:00 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: 2014-11-11 14:45 GMT+01:00 Lukas Sommer sommer...@gmail.com: The proposal is only about allow “junction=yes” on areas. All other stuff stays without changes. Would you mind explaining why you oppose more specific junction types in this proposal which apparently aims at mapping junctions in more detail? Before Richard has asked I had taken for granted that yes could have more specific values... cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Tagging for complex junctions
Am 11.11.2014 um 18:45 schrieb Lukas Sommer sommer...@gmail.com: but it is simply a closed way which is used together with “highway=*” and represents a road in form of a circle. So this would probably conflict with interpreting this as area. on the junction area you wouldn't put a highway tag. Cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Tagging for complex junctions
Hello. After commenting period, now is starting the voting for the junction (only) tagging at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tagging_for_complex_junctions Lukas Sommer ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Tagging for complex junctions or traffic signals that are named
Okay, we have 9 votes: - 5 times approve - 3 times oppose - 1 time obstain I suppose this is not enough? Lukas Sommer 2014-09-28 14:48 GMT+00:00 Lukas Sommer sommer...@gmail.com: Hello. After discussion and some modifications of the proposal, here a request for voting on “Tagging for complex junctions or traffic signals that are named“. This is an important feature in some regions in Asia (notably Japan and Korea), but may be useful also in other regions of the world. Lukas Sommer ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Tagging for complex junctions or traffic signals that are named
Hello all. At https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tagging_for_complex_junctions_or_traffic_signals_that_are_named there is still a proposal for complex junctions and traffic signal systems in voting process. Participation is appreciated ;-) Regards Lukas Lukas Sommer 2014-09-28 14:48 GMT+00:00 Lukas Sommer sommer...@gmail.com: Hello. After discussion and some modifications of the proposal, here a request for voting on “Tagging for complex junctions or traffic signals that are named“. This is an important feature in some regions in Asia (notably Japan and Korea), but may be useful also in other regions of the world. Lukas Sommer ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Tagging for complex junctions or traffic signals that are named
On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 8:56 PM, fly lowfligh...@googlemail.com wrote: Once more cite a mail on the previous thread [1] Seems to be a real world example, which is mappable with nodes for the traffic_signals and an area for the junction. You even don't need an area if the junction is a node and the traffic signals are also using their own nodes (thus different osm elements). Pieren ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Tagging for complex junctions or traffic signals that are named
2014-09-29 23:45 GMT+02:00 Lukas Sommer sommer...@gmail.com: The case of Japan is different. In Japan, the name belongs to the _traffic signal_, and _not_ to the junction. We need to distinguish this, because they are usually differently rendered (traffic signal names usually with an icon and junction names usually without an icon). But what would we gain when we distinguish between th:junction_area and kr:junction_area - because here we have two values for the same feature. If there is a need to tag traffic signal names and junction names on the same node, then the logical solution is junction:name=* and traffic_signals:name=*. Or in different languages: junction:name:th=* and traffic_signals:name:kr=*. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Tagging for complex junctions or traffic signals that are named
Oh, sorry, Pieren was faster… ;-) Lukas Sommer 2014-09-30 12:34 GMT+00:00 Lukas Sommer sommer...@gmail.com: If there is a need to tag traffic signal names and junction names on the same node, then the logical solution is junction:name=* and traffic_signals:name=*. Or in different languages: junction:name:th=* and traffic_signals:name:kr=*. Different names for junction and traffic signal are probably not a real-world case. Lukas Sommer 2014-09-30 12:21 GMT+00:00 Janko Mihelić jan...@gmail.com: 2014-09-29 23:45 GMT+02:00 Lukas Sommer sommer...@gmail.com: The case of Japan is different. In Japan, the name belongs to the _traffic signal_, and _not_ to the junction. We need to distinguish this, because they are usually differently rendered (traffic signal names usually with an icon and junction names usually without an icon). But what would we gain when we distinguish between th:junction_area and kr:junction_area - because here we have two values for the same feature. If there is a need to tag traffic signal names and junction names on the same node, then the logical solution is junction:name=* and traffic_signals:name=*. Or in different languages: junction:name:th=* and traffic_signals:name:kr=*. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Tagging for complex junctions or traffic signals that are named
What would also be no problem, because you can give an individual name=* tag to each node with highway=traffic_signals and another name=* tag to the area. Lukas Sommer 2014-09-30 18:56 GMT+00:00 fly lowfligh...@googlemail.com: Am 30.09.2014 14:34, schrieb Lukas Sommer: If there is a need to tag traffic signal names and junction names on the same node, then the logical solution is junction:name=* and traffic_signals:name=*. Or in different languages: junction:name:th=* and traffic_signals:name:kr=*. Different names for junction and traffic signal are probably not a real-world case. Once more cite a mail on the previous thread [1] Seems to be a real world example, which is mappable with nodes for the traffic_signals and an area for the junction. cu fly [1] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2014-September/019349.html ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Tagging for complex junctions or traffic signals that are named
On 29.09.2014 05:14, Никита wrote: Should we discourage usage of this tag(s) outside Korea and Japan? (I will vote yes for this part) a lot of people in Thailand will be mad at you then... Having named junctions is quite common. Stephan ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Tagging for complex junctions or traffic signals that are named
a lot of people in Thailand will be mad at you then... Well, yes, Thailand also, but this tag will be truly meaningful for limited number of countries. I think we should reflect that. Having named junctions is quite common. Do you mean personal name? There very-very few named junctions in Russia and almost all of them are local names, not official. Ex: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Пять_углов_(Санкт-Петербург) It will be fine to map all these junctions in same way we map named pedestrian areas. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Tagging for complex junctions or traffic signals that are named
Do you mean spersonal name/s proper noun? 2014-09-29 14:21 GMT+04:00 Никита acr...@gmail.com: a lot of people in Thailand will be mad at you then... Well, yes, Thailand also, but this tag will be truly meaningful for limited number of countries. I think we should reflect that. Having named junctions is quite common. Do you mean personal name? There very-very few named junctions in Russia and almost all of them are local names, not official. Ex: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Пять_углов_(Санкт-Петербург) It will be fine to map all these junctions in same way we map named pedestrian areas. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Tagging for complex junctions or traffic signals that are named
On 29.09.2014 12:21, Никита wrote: Having named junctions is quite common. Do you mean personal name? There very-very few named junctions in Russia and almost all of them are local names, not official. Ex: Thailand has official signs naming the junctions/intersections. These names are also used when you give directions. This is an example of what these road signs look like. Image is not the best I have of junction signs but the first I found: http://s29.postimg.org/yboj3n4xj/named_junction.jpg Stephan ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Tagging for complex junctions or traffic signals that are named
Can you please provide examples how to draw area for more complicated junctions? https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tagging_for_complex_junctions_or_traffic_signals_that_are_named Lukas Sommer 2014-09-29 3:14 GMT+00:00 Никита acr...@gmail.com: Not enough examples, I cannot vote yes right now. Can you please provide examples how to draw area for more complicated junctions? For 3, 4 or 5 roads? Example with roundabout (should we include inside area)? For junction with 2 or many roundabouts (how we should include all these small areas between _link roads)? Should we discourage usage of this tag(s) outside Korea and Japan? (I will vote yes for this part) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Tagging for complex junctions or traffic signals that are named
Thailand has official signs naming the junctions/intersections. These names are also used when you give directions. As Imagic suggested, it not best way to use different tags for close meanings, single tag will be better option: junction=th:junction_area junction=jp:junction_area junction=kr:junction_area This will allow both simple processing and custom rendering for each case. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Tagging for complex junctions or traffic signals that are named
The case of Japan is different. In Japan, the name belongs to the _traffic signal_, and _not_ to the junction. We need to distinguish this, because they are usually differently rendered (traffic signal names usually with an icon and junction names usually without an icon). But what would we gain when we distinguish between th:junction_area and kr:junction_area - because here we have two values for the same feature. While the tagging has a certain focus on some asian countries, I would prefer to keep this country-independent. Lukas Sommer 2014-09-29 21:37 GMT+00:00 Никита acr...@gmail.com: Thailand has official signs naming the junctions/intersections. These names are also used when you give directions. As Imagic suggested, it not best way to use different tags for close meanings, single tag will be better option: junction=th:junction_area junction=jp:junction_area junction=kr:junction_area This will allow both simple processing and custom rendering for each case. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Tagging for complex junctions or traffic signals that are named
@Lukas But what would we gain when we distinguish between th:junction_area and kr:junction_area - because here we have two values for the same feature. I assume what is desired is to have the ability to provide those two values in different languages. Usually the language suffix is found on the tag rather than the value as in: name:en=* or name:th=*. Here in Thailand for example we write both name=* and name:th=* in Thai script while the English version would be name:en=* in our alphabet. This way rendered maps can use either language (or both) as they wish. On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 4:45 AM, Lukas Sommer sommer...@gmail.com wrote: The case of Japan is different. In Japan, the name belongs to the _traffic signal_, and _not_ to the junction. We need to distinguish this, because they are usually differently rendered (traffic signal names usually with an icon and junction names usually without an icon). But what would we gain when we distinguish between th:junction_area and kr:junction_area - because here we have two values for the same feature. While the tagging has a certain focus on some asian countries, I would prefer to keep this country-independent. Lukas Sommer 2014-09-29 21:37 GMT+00:00 Никита acr...@gmail.com: Thailand has official signs naming the junctions/intersections. These names are also used when you give directions. As Imagic suggested, it not best way to use different tags for close meanings, single tag will be better option: junction=th:junction_area junction=jp:junction_area junction=kr:junction_area This will allow both simple processing and custom rendering for each case. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- Dave Swarthout Homer, Alaska Chiang Mai, Thailand Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Tagging for complex junctions or traffic signals that are named
So, if you have an intersection of two streets, with one traffic signal facing each direction, each of the four traffic signals will have its own distinct name? On September 29, 2014 4:45:33 PM CDT, Lukas Sommer sommer...@gmail.com wrote: The case of Japan is different. In Japan, the name belongs to the _traffic signal_, and _not_ to the junction. We need to distinguish this, because they are usually differently rendered (traffic signal names usually with an icon and junction names usually without an icon). But what would we gain when we distinguish between th:junction_area and kr:junction_area - because here we have two values for the same feature. While the tagging has a certain focus on some asian countries, I would prefer to keep this country-independent. Lukas Sommer 2014-09-29 21:37 GMT+00:00 Никита acr...@gmail.com: Thailand has official signs naming the junctions/intersections. These names are also used when you give directions. As Imagic suggested, it not best way to use different tags for close meanings, single tag will be better option: junction=th:junction_area junction=jp:junction_area junction=kr:junction_area This will allow both simple processing and custom rendering for each case. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Tagging for complex junctions or traffic signals that are named
Dave, no, my intention was to describe them similar to maxspeed=DE:, maxspeed=IT: values, not tags. But as Lukas Sommer said In Japan, the name belongs to the _traffic signal_, and _not_ to the junction. But since only Japan is different there no need to use prefixed values with different meaning per country. I think it is okay use separate tags then. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Tagging for complex junctions or traffic signals that are named
Hello. After discussion and some modifications of the proposal, here a request for voting on “Tagging for complex junctions or traffic signals that are named“. This is an important feature in some regions in Asia (notably Japan and Korea), but may be useful also in other regions of the world. Lukas Sommer ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Tagging for complex junctions or traffic signals that are named
A link is missing. 2014-09-28 16:48 GMT+02:00 Lukas Sommer sommer...@gmail.com: Hello. After discussion and some modifications of the proposal, here a request for voting on “Tagging for complex junctions or traffic signals that are named“. This is an important feature in some regions in Asia (notably Japan and Korea), but may be useful also in other regions of the world. Lukas Sommer ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Tagging for complex junctions or traffic signals that are named
Oh, sorry, I missed this: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tagging_for_complex_junctions_or_traffic_signals_that_are_named Lukas Sommer 2014-09-28 20:47 GMT+00:00 Mateusz Konieczny matkoni...@gmail.com: A link is missing. 2014-09-28 16:48 GMT+02:00 Lukas Sommer sommer...@gmail.com: Hello. After discussion and some modifications of the proposal, here a request for voting on “Tagging for complex junctions or traffic signals that are named“. This is an important feature in some regions in Asia (notably Japan and Korea), but may be useful also in other regions of the world. Lukas Sommer ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Tagging for complex junctions or traffic signals that are named
Not enough examples, I cannot vote yes right now. Can you please provide examples how to draw area for more complicated junctions? For 3, 4 or 5 roads? Example with roundabout (should we include inside area)? For junction with 2 or many roundabouts (how we should include all these small areas between _link roads)? Should we discourage usage of this tag(s) outside Korea and Japan? (I will vote yes for this part) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Tagging for complex junctions or traffic signals that are named
I can see this being somewhat practical in North America, but the tagging for North American examples tends to fall within existing standards. Take Coe Circle in Portland or Bartlett Square in Tulsa for example. And ignore the fact that Bartlett Square is round On Sep 28, 2014 10:15 PM, Никита acr...@gmail.com wrote: Not enough examples, I cannot vote yes right now. Can you please provide examples how to draw area for more complicated junctions? For 3, 4 or 5 roads? Example with roundabout (should we include inside area)? For junction with 2 or many roundabouts (how we should include all these small areas between _link roads)? Should we discourage usage of this tag(s) outside Korea and Japan? (I will vote yes for this part) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
