Re: [Tagging] How to tag the width of a gate
Am 26. Februar 2012 09:45 schrieb Mike Valiant mike_vali...@hotmail.com: If the gate is a node on a way that passes through the gate then I would have thought barrier=gate and maxwidth=xxx on the node that is the gate would be more appropriate. It defines the maximum size of vehicle (person?) that could pass through the aperture. -1, maxwidth is part of the restrictions. Those are generally legal restrictions, so they do not express who can actually pass through, but who is still allowed to pass through. To tag the width of an object use width. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:maxwidth http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:width cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag the width of a gate
On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 20:26:05 Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: Am 26. Februar 2012 09:45 schrieb Mike Valiant mike_vali...@hotmail.com: If the gate is a node on a way that passes through the gate then I would have thought barrier=gate and maxwidth=xxx on the node that is the gate would be more appropriate. It defines the maximum size of vehicle (person?) that could pass through the aperture. -1, maxwidth is part of the restrictions. Those are generally legal restrictions, so they do not express who can actually pass through, but who is still allowed to pass through. To tag the width of an object use width. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:maxwidth http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:width I concur. Also, if this tag was missing for the gate node you could infer the width of the gate if there was a width=* tag on the road passing through it. If you needed to. Best wishes, Andrew ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag the width of a gate
That not what the wiki for maxwidth says: a width limit for using the way - no mention of whether it is a legal restriction or not. And in the discussion of maxwidth width restriction can be physical, or purely legal //Mike Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2012 12:26:05 +0100 From: dieterdre...@gmail.com To: tagging@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Tagging] How to tag the width of a gate Am 26. Februar 2012 09:45 schrieb Mike Valiant mike_vali...@hotmail.com: If the gate is a node on a way that passes through the gate then I would have thoughtbarrier=gate and maxwidth=xxxon the node that is the gate would be more appropriate. It defines the maximum size of vehicle (person?) that could pass through the aperture. -1, maxwidth is part of the restrictions. Those are generally legal restrictions, so they do not express who can actually pass through, but who is still allowed to pass through. To tag the width of an object use width. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:maxwidth http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:width cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag the width of a gate
Am 26. Februar 2012 13:17 schrieb Mike Valiant mike_vali...@hotmail.com: That not what the wiki for maxwidth says: a width limit for using the way - no mention of whether it is a legal restriction or not. And in the discussion of maxwidth width restriction can be physical, or purely legal the wiki is not always easy to read, but you can get the clue if you look at several pages: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:width links to maxwidth with this text: width restriction for vehicles on a road http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:maxwidth has a big sign on the right (legal restriction) and links to access for other restrictions, where the first sentence is: Access values are used to describe the legal access for highway=*s and other facilities... The discussion page of maxwidth that you mention links to maxheight discussion. On maxheight discussion it gets pointed out that maxheight is a legal restriction and that a proposal for physical maxheight is to be found here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/clearance this page shows that there was no support for maxheight:legal (because maxheight is already legal) but there was support for maxheight:physical FYI: I added the word legal to maxwidth now, so in the future there will be less confusion. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag the width of a gate
IMHO a physical restriction is as important as a legal restriction. If I have a wide vehicle and I was using routing software using the OSM database it would be useful to be able to put in my vehicle's width and then the routing software could parse for maxwidth as a restriction along the route. There are many places, such as the width of a gate, which would prevent a vehicle using a road where there is no legal restriction. I think you have just made the tag less useful. //Mike Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2012 13:42:12 +0100 From: dieterdre...@gmail.com To: tagging@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Tagging] How to tag the width of a gate Am 26. Februar 2012 13:17 schrieb Mike Valiant mike_vali...@hotmail.com: That not what the wiki for maxwidth says: a width limit for using the way - no mention of whether it is a legal restriction or not. And in the discussion of maxwidth width restriction can be physical, or purely legal the wiki is not always easy to read, but you can get the clue if you look at several pages: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:width links to maxwidth with this text: width restriction for vehicles on a road http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:maxwidth has a big sign on the right (legal restriction) and links to access for other restrictions, where the first sentence is: Access values are used to describe the legal access for highway=*s and other facilities... The discussion page of maxwidth that you mention links to maxheight discussion. On maxheight discussion it gets pointed out that maxheight is a legal restriction and that a proposal for physical maxheight is to be found here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/clearance this page shows that there was no support for maxheight:legal (because maxheight is already legal) but there was support for maxheight:physical FYI: I added the word legal to maxwidth now, so in the future there will be less confusion. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag the width of a gate
Am 26. Februar 2012 13:53 schrieb Mike Valiant mike_vali...@hotmail.com: IMHO a physical restriction is as important as a legal restriction. If I have a wide vehicle and I was using routing software using the OSM database it would be useful to be able to put in my vehicle's width and then the routing software could parse for maxwidth as a restriction along the route. There are many places, such as the width of a gate, which would prevent a vehicle using a road where there is no legal restriction. I think you have just made the tag less useful. This was discussed intensely some time ago for maxheight, I suggest you read the archives on this. I agree that a physical restriction is as important or maybe even more important then a legal one but that does not mean you have to use the wrong tag for it. Simply use width (which is a physical description) as all others in this thread have pointed out. You could also use maxwidth:physical if there is a reason to do so (say in your country there is signs for this, like it appears to be for maxheight:physical in some countries). cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag the width of a gate
This was discussed intensely some time ago for maxheight, I suggest you read the archives on this. I agree that a physical restriction is Originally there was little mention of any of them tags depicting purely legal restrictions. Even access/*=no was unsuitable or not allowed, but later, as it was deemed unverifiable, the only legal started creeping into all sorts of tags, where it may or may not be the common usage, or sensible. For a lorry driver it doesn't matter if a gate's width limit is legal or physical, if they can't get through, but can drive up to it. That's the history bit. Using width=* only for physical maximum width for a vehicle could only work for, for example, gates, whereas a narrow road lined with trees might be impassable for wide vehicles, but there isn't an object that could be tagged with width=* at that narrow point between two trees. Mind you, the road itself (its width=*) can be narrower than the load the vehicle is carrying, or the vehicles extents (e.g. side mirrors). Likewise, a gate is often actually wider than the gap; for an stone arch gate even several meters wider. My point being, that physical maximum width deserves some other tag than width=*. -- Alv ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag the width of a gate
Originally there was little mention of any of them tags depicting purely legal restrictions. Even access/*=no was unsuitable or not allowed, but later, as it was deemed unverifiable, the only legal started creeping into all sorts of tags, where it may or may not be the common usage, or sensible. I think previous discussions have largely been about roads which may be the only case where there is a legal restrictions apply. In the case under discussion, a gate across a *path*, I think it is unlikely that there will ever be a case where the width restriction is anything but physical. maxwidth:physical as a qualification would be an unnecessary It's not clear whether contributors tagging roads have been differentiating between warning signs (triangular) and prohibitory legal signs (circular). Taginfo suggests not: There are 4147 instances of maxwidth0 instances of maxwidth:physical0 instances of maxwidth:legal In my experience the legal restriction is much rarer than the warning signs and physical restrictions. IMHO maxwidth should cover *any* restriction. I shall continue to tag with the majority! //Mike ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag the width of a gate
I agree that maxwidth=any_number should be interpreted as general restriction without discrimination. Generally I'd like to see a clearly distinctive tagging of legal (am I allowed to) vs. physical (will I not get stuck) aspects, but that is much broader issue than maxwidth. maxwidth might actually one of the legal limitations that are least arbitrary and most often supported by (bridge) hard reality. Lukáš Matějka (LM_1) 2012/2/26 Mike Valiant mike_vali...@hotmail.com: Originally there was little mention of any of them tags depicting purely legal restrictions. Even access/*=no was unsuitable or not allowed, but later, as it was deemed unverifiable, the only legal started creeping into all sorts of tags, where it may or may not be the common usage, or sensible. I think previous discussions have largely been about roads which may be the only case where there is a legal restrictions apply. In the case under discussion, a gate across a *path*, I think it is unlikely that there will ever be a case where the width restriction is anything but physical. maxwidth:physical as a qualification would be an unnecessary It's not clear whether contributors tagging roads have been differentiating between warning signs (triangular) and prohibitory legal signs (circular). Taginfo suggests not: There are 4147 instances of maxwidth 0 instances of maxwidth:physical 0 instances of maxwidth:legal In my experience the legal restriction is much rarer than the warning signs and physical restrictions. IMHO maxwidth should cover *any* restriction. I shall continue to tag with the majority! //Mike ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag the width of a gate
I must admit that I haven't checked the wiki. The thing started with warnings by JOSM that said that I should not apply width to a node. I checked tag info and that confirmed that the use is sporadic only. To me width fits perfectly to a node of type barrier like a gate or a cycle barrier Volker On 25 February 2012 22:45, Andreas Balzer em...@andreas-balzer.de wrote: Hi, using barrier=gate on a single node and therefore the width key is the documented approach in the wiki. :-) However as far as I know there is nothing specifying the thickness of the gate. Andreas -- Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2012 19:48:43 + From: grahamjones...@gmail.com To: tagging@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Tagging] How to tag the width of a gate The key width can only be applied to a way, not to a node (e.g. a gate). You could make separate nodes for the two gateposts, with a connecting way to represent the gate itself, and apply the width tag to that way. To me the easiest answer is to use barrier=gate, width=xxx. I can not see any reason why you should not use width for a node, if it is the sort of node that has a width, like a gate, doorway etc. Graham. -- Graham Jones Hartlepool, UK. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag the width of a gate
On 02/26/2012 09:16 AM, Mike Valiant wrote: Originally there was little mention of any of them tags depicting purely legal restrictions. Even access/*=no was unsuitable or not allowed, but later, as it was deemed unverifiable, the only legal started creeping into all sorts of tags, where it may or may not be the common usage, or sensible. In the case under discussion, a gate across a *path*, I think it is unlikely that there will ever be a case where the width restriction is anything but physical. maxwidth:physical as a qualification would be an unnecessary I'm not entirely sure about that. I personally have been tagging ATV trails (50 inch legal width restriction) as highway=track and adding a few other tags. But when I first started tagging them I used highway=path instead. Reading the description for highway=path it's not really clear that it doesn't apply. The description explicitly mentions snowmobiles which share a number of common trails with ATVs. I wouldn't be hard to convince me to go back to path. It's the default of no motor vehicles that made me switch over to track instead of path. But it's such a specialized use case.. it's just questionable. Shawn ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] How to tag the width of a gate
I would like to tag the width (horizontal clearance) of a gate. The typical application are mountain trails that pass through livestock fences by means of various types of gates. The trail typically has no width, but the gate may have it. The key width can only be applied to a way, not to a node (e.g. a gate). Volker Padova, Italy ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag the width of a gate
Volker Schmidt vosc...@gmail.com wrote: I would like to tag the width (horizontal clearance) of a gate. The typical application are mountain trails that pass through livestock fences by means of various types of gates. The trail typically has no width, but the gate may have it. The key width can only be applied to a way, not to a node (e.g. a gate). Volker Padova, Italy You could make separate nodes for the two gateposts, with a connecting way to represent the gate itself, and apply the width tag to that way. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag the width of a gate
Hi,using barrier=gate on a single node and therefore the width key is the documented approach in the wiki. :-) However as far as I know there is nothing specifying the thickness of the gate. Andreas Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2012 19:48:43 + From: grahamjones...@gmail.com To: tagging@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Tagging] How to tag the width of a gate The key width can only be applied to a way, not to a node (e.g. a gate). You could make separate nodes for the two gateposts, with a connecting way to represent the gate itself, and apply the width tag to that way. To me the easiest answer is to use barrier=gate, width=xxx. I can not see any reason why you should not use width for a node, if it is the sort of node that has a width, like a gate, doorway etc. Graham. -- Graham Jones Hartlepool, UK. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
