Re: [Tagging] Missing oneway:bicycle=no

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2017-02-15 10:27 GMT+01:00 Volker Schmidt :

> I do read the wiki page
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:cycleway
> differently.
> I read it to mean that the "opposite" refers to the opposite *direction*
> in which bicycles can travel on roads marked as oneway for vehicles
> (oneway=yes)
>


yes, you're right. Actually cycleway=opposite_lane leaves a bit of
ambiguity whether there is also a cyclelane for the direction of the
oneway, that's why the wiki suggests to use cycleway:left and
cycleway:right instead.

Somehow the approach of tagging lanes or tracks on the main highway comes
to limits anyway.

E.g. here:
https://www.google.it/maps/@52.5442916,13.3897153,3a,75y,250.94h,82.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSMhQ_UavSBhrcCv05sNO4Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

this sign is bicycle=no
but there is a cycleway on both sides (initially at least):
https://www.google.it/maps/place/Berlin,+Deutschland/@52.5446112,13.3908026,3a,60y,222.45h,79.48t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1seDtJTH_4VZ2yZpw9lGS-jA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x47a84e373f035901:0x42120465b5e3b70!8m2!3d52.5200066!4d13.404954!6m1!1e1

and on the southern side there is a cycle (lane or track) for the whole
length:
https://www.google.it/maps/@52.5433703,13.386435,3a,65.1y,93.29h,70.49t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snF9guRz78uWjB9yic1wmdA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

Likely you'd need to tag cycleway:bicycle:right=yes or something like this,
but chances are good people will not get this right, while it's a nobrainer
map the cycleway and access correctly as a distinct osm way.

There is no explicit cycleway signage (except the bicycle=no on one side of
the road), but it looks like cycleways (this is the other end of the road):
https://www.google.it/maps/@52.5422296,13.3828561,3a,75y,58.68h,86.77t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sK_RQOPu8XXzM1dKPazeLNQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

So one interpretation could be: oneway only for bicycles and only for part
of the road length, otherwise cyclelane and cycletrack (depending where you
look at it).

In OSM we don't have any cycleinfrastructure in this road yet.

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] Missing oneway:bicycle=no

[Marc Gemis]

This is not what is mentioned on other pages:

(part of my mail to the Belgian mailing list)

oneway:bicycle=no  + cycleway=track/lane is recommended, see e.g. M1
on https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Bicycle

opposite_lane should only be used when there is a lane in the opposite
direction of the one_way and there is no lane in the direction of the
oneway. See https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:cycleway%3Dopposite_lane
Or as indicated in the above M1, when you tag forward/backward
separately. It is not enough to indicate a oneway street with cycle
lanes in both directions.
I have seen it even used when there are no lanes, i.e. the cyclists
have to drive on the main road.


m

On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Volker Schmidt  wrote:
> @Martin
>
> On 14 February 2017 at 23:40, Martin Koppenhoefer 
> wrote:
>>
>> cycleway=opposite* indicates that the cycleway is on the "other" side,
>> e.g. left of the street in a right side traffic region. This doesn't require
>> a oneway situation and missing oneway tags are not necessarily an error
>
>
> I do read the wiki page
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:cycleway
> differently.
> I read it to mean that the "opposite" refers to the opposite direction in
> which bicycles can travel on roads marked as oneway for vehicles
> (oneway=yes)
>
> Volker
>
>
> ___
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Re: [Tagging] Missing oneway:bicycle=no

[Volker Schmidt]

@Martin

On 14 February 2017 at 23:40, Martin Koppenhoefer 
wrote:

> cycleway=opposite* indicates that the cycleway is on the "other" side,
> e.g. left of the street in a right side traffic region. This doesn't
> require a oneway situation and missing oneway tags are not necessarily an
> error
>

I do read the wiki page
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:cycleway
differently.
I read it to mean that the "opposite" refers to the opposite *direction* in
which bicycles can travel on roads marked as oneway for vehicles
(oneway=yes)

Volker
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Re: [Tagging] Missing oneway:bicycle=no

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 14 Feb 2017, at 17:33, André Pirard  wrote:
> 
> Unfortunately, while writing an overpass script I noticed that many 
> cycleway=opposite* exist without oneway:bicycle=no and even without 
> oneway=yes.
> Please run this script to find some of them.
> I'm not going to give the nonOSM people I work with overly complicated 
> instructions.  I'm not going to make a complicated script. To write it "for 
> the errors".
> 
> Could we please correct those mistakes?


cycleway=opposite* indicates that the cycleway is on the "other" side, e.g. 
left of the street in a right side traffic region. This doesn't require a 
oneway situation and missing oneway tags are not necessarily an error 


cheers,
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[Tagging] Missing oneway:bicycle=no

[André Pirard]

  
  
I once read that routes of cyclists using OSM were laughed at by the
others...

oneway=yes is a routing
tag (used by GSM) indicating that only one way of the highway can be
used.
That page says that the exception for bicycles to run contraflow is
oneway:bicycle=no.
And that cycleway=opposite* is added
for compatibility.
Also, Key:cycleway says that oneway:bicycle=no.
must be used with cycleway=opposite.

All in all it makes much sense that only one oneway:bicycle=no
  routing tag be used to allow bicycle contraflow.
And that other tags like cycleway=* are not routing tags to be used
by routing software (GSM).
They are just tags giving more detail about how the bicycles run.
Why would a multitude of duplicating routing tags like detour:bicycle=yes
or shortcut:bicycle=yes be used Indeed?

Unfortunately, while writing an overpass script I noticed that many
cycleway=opposite* exist without oneway:bicycle=no and even
without _oneway_=yes.
Please
  run this script to find some of them.
I'm not going to give the nonOSM people I work with overly
complicated instructions.  I'm not going to make a complicated
script. To write it "for the errors".

Could we please correct those mistakes?

Cheers



  

  André.

  


  


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