Re: [Tagging] RFC free_water

[Markus Peloso]

Thanks for that. Now it's clear for me.

+1 from me for drinking_water:refill_scheme

I found three national programs (with maps) that I think are related to this 
tag.
- https://refill.org.uk/refill-schemes/
- https://refill-deutschland.de/
- http://www.fillitup.ch/karte.html

Von: European Water Project<mailto:europeanwaterproj...@gmail.com>
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 23. Januar 2020 08:02
An: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools<mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org>
Betreff: Re: [Tagging] RFC free_water

Dear All,

I have amended the proposal with the tag and a simplified example.

The proposal is definitely more KISS.

drinking_water:refill_scheme = 

Best regards,

Stuart

On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 at 14:21, Philip Barnes 
mailto:p...@trigpoint.me.uk>> wrote:


On Wednesday, 22 January 2020, European Water Project wrote:
> Hi Paul et. al,
>
> I would also be very supportive of this straightforward approach which
> would address many of the concerns regarding an over complicated tagging
> scheme covering cases that are often mandated by local legislation.
>
> One clean solution could be the following or something similar.
>
> drinking_water:refill_scheme=
>

Thank you.

Paul's response did clear up my reservations on the idea.

The webpage makes it clear there is a sticker that is verifiable without going 
in a asking. Not sure if that was mentioned before or if I had simply missed it.

This meets the gold osm standard of Verifable.

Now I know there is something to look out for I can start looking when I'm out.

Its a shame the website doesn't have location, I do not use Google play, but I 
guess thats why you want to put them into OSM.

As its a UK scheme, discussion on the talk-gb list would be more focussed and 
you will reach more mappers who are able to survey and contribute.

Cheers
Phil  (trigpoint)

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Re: [Tagging] RFC free_water

[European Water Project]

Dear All,

I have amended the proposal with the tag and a simplified example.

The proposal is definitely more KISS.

drinking_water:refill_scheme = 

Best regards,

Stuart

On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 at 14:21, Philip Barnes  wrote:

>
>
> On Wednesday, 22 January 2020, European Water Project wrote:
> > Hi Paul et. al,
> >
> > I would also be very supportive of this straightforward approach which
> > would address many of the concerns regarding an over complicated tagging
> > scheme covering cases that are often mandated by local legislation.
> >
> > One clean solution could be the following or something similar.
> >
> > drinking_water:refill_scheme=
> >
>
> Thank you.
>
> Paul's response did clear up my reservations on the idea.
>
> The webpage makes it clear there is a sticker that is verifiable without
> going in a asking. Not sure if that was mentioned before or if I had simply
> missed it.
>
> This meets the gold osm standard of Verifable.
>
> Now I know there is something to look out for I can start looking when I'm
> out.
>
> Its a shame the website doesn't have location, I do not use Google play,
> but I guess thats why you want to put them into OSM.
>
> As its a UK scheme, discussion on the talk-gb list would be more focussed
> and you will reach more mappers who are able to survey and contribute.
>
> Cheers
> Phil  (trigpoint)
>
> --
> Sent from my Sailfish device
> ___
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Re: [Tagging] RFC free_water

[European Water Project]

Dear Phil,

A group of us have recently started an NGO called European Water Project to
develop a similar scheme to that of Refill all over Europe.   I have
written a Progressive Web Apllication https://europeanwaterproject.org
available in 8 languages for this purpose. We currently are only mapping
drinking fountains, but want to add participating refill cafes and bars.

I had many many discussions with Gus Hoyt from the Refill UK Bristol
headquarters and unfortunately the board of City2Sea is adamant about
following a closed database scheme and requiring all affiliates of their
scheme to sell Chilly water bottles.

We believe the development and the maintenance of a database of
participating cafes and bars is best done using an open data database and
done collaboratively.

I recently presented our project  at the UN in Geneva in front of 850
students from 32 countries and received a positive response.
https://www.facebook.com/EuropeanWaterProject/posts/129192181895515


Best regards,

Stuart

On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 at 14:21, Philip Barnes  wrote:

>
>
> On Wednesday, 22 January 2020, European Water Project wrote:
> > Hi Paul et. al,
> >
> > I would also be very supportive of this straightforward approach which
> > would address many of the concerns regarding an over complicated tagging
> > scheme covering cases that are often mandated by local legislation.
> >
> > One clean solution could be the following or something similar.
> >
> > drinking_water:refill_scheme=
> >
>
> Thank you.
>
> Paul's response did clear up my reservations on the idea.
>
> The webpage makes it clear there is a sticker that is verifiable without
> going in a asking. Not sure if that was mentioned before or if I had simply
> missed it.
>
> This meets the gold osm standard of Verifable.
>
> Now I know there is something to look out for I can start looking when I'm
> out.
>
> Its a shame the website doesn't have location, I do not use Google play,
> but I guess thats why you want to put them into OSM.
>
> As its a UK scheme, discussion on the talk-gb list would be more focussed
> and you will reach more mappers who are able to survey and contribute.
>
> Cheers
> Phil  (trigpoint)
>
> --
> Sent from my Sailfish device
> ___
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Re: [Tagging] RFC free_water

[Paul Allen]

On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 at 13:21, Philip Barnes  wrote:

>
> Its a shame the website doesn't have location, I do not use Google play,
> but I guess thats why you want to put them into OSM.
>

I tried the app on Android.  It uses Google maps, which is common for
Android
apps.  I expect the Apple version uses Apple maps.  I don't know about
Apple,
but part of the reason OSM has become so popular of late is that Google put
their Maps prices up to silly levels, so they wouldn't want to use it on
their website.

The data doesn't need to go into OSM in order for them to put an OSM
location
map on their website.  You could do it with Leaflet by programmatically
parsing
a list of co-ordinates, or you could do it manually (ugh!) with uMap.  OTOH,
if these things were tagged, you could pick them up automatically in uMap by
building an overpass-turbo query into the uMap layer.  I'd expect some of
the
variant cartos that allow the display of only selected categories of POI
would
make use of the data with an option to display/highlight water refill POIs.

As its a UK scheme, discussion on the talk-gb list would be more focussed
> and you will reach more mappers who are able to survey and contribute.
>

Once we've agreed on the tagging, yep.  Although bear in mind that other
countries are starting to adopt similar schemes.

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Re: [Tagging] RFC free_water

[Philip Barnes]

On Wednesday, 22 January 2020, European Water Project wrote:
> Hi Paul et. al,
> 
> I would also be very supportive of this straightforward approach which
> would address many of the concerns regarding an over complicated tagging
> scheme covering cases that are often mandated by local legislation.
> 
> One clean solution could be the following or something similar.
> 
> drinking_water:refill_scheme=
>
 
Thank you.

Paul's response did clear up my reservations on the idea.

The webpage makes it clear there is a sticker that is verifiable without going 
in a asking. Not sure if that was mentioned before or if I had simply missed it.

This meets the gold osm standard of Verifable.

Now I know there is something to look out for I can start looking when I'm out.

Its a shame the website doesn't have location, I do not use Google play, but I 
guess thats why you want to put them into OSM.

As its a UK scheme, discussion on the talk-gb list would be more focussed and 
you will reach more mappers who are able to survey and contribute.

Cheers
Phil  (trigpoint)

-- 
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Re: [Tagging] RFC free_water

[European Water Project]

Hi Paul et. al,

I would also be very supportive of this straightforward approach which
would address many of the concerns regarding an over complicated tagging
scheme covering cases that are often mandated by local legislation.

One clean solution could be the following or something similar.

drinking_water:refill_scheme = 

Best regards,

Stuart



On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 at 13:13, Paul Allen  wrote:

> On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 at 10:46, Jez Nicholson 
> wrote:
>
>> Yesbut (I believe that) this tag is driven by the 'refill scheme' use
>> case, which should be identifiable on-the-ground by displayed information.
>> Data could be collected by apps built by the schemes.
>>
>
> For those unfamiliar with the scheme, see
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refill_(scheme)
> Note that this is a REFILL scheme, not a "Can I have a free glass of
> water?" scheme.
> I.e., you bring your own bottle.  At participating locations you can walk
> in, not buy
> anything, and have your bottle refilled.
>
>>
>> The general case of "will a retailer give me free water as a customer"
>> case is discussed to see whether it would make for a generic tag.
>>
>
> And is probably over-complicating things to the point this goes nowhere.
> I think
> there is merit to mapping participants in the refill scheme and that it
> isn't
> very volatile.  All the other stuff about free glass of water, is a bottle
> provided
> (not for free, it won't be), is it a glass or carafe, etc. is volatile and
> whimsical
> (up to the owner of the establishment, depends how nicely you ask, phase of
> moon, etc.)
>
> If we end up with a tag for a refill scheme, I'll vote for it.  If we end
> up with an
> "All the possible ways of getting water, containers, and possible payment"
> scheme, I'll probably vote against.
>
> --
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>
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Re: [Tagging] RFC free_water

[Paul Allen]

On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 at 10:46, Jez Nicholson  wrote:

> Yesbut (I believe that) this tag is driven by the 'refill scheme' use
> case, which should be identifiable on-the-ground by displayed information.
> Data could be collected by apps built by the schemes.
>

For those unfamiliar with the scheme, see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refill_(scheme)
Note that this is a REFILL scheme, not a "Can I have a free glass of
water?" scheme.
I.e., you bring your own bottle.  At participating locations you can walk
in, not buy
anything, and have your bottle refilled.

>
> The general case of "will a retailer give me free water as a customer"
> case is discussed to see whether it would make for a generic tag.
>

And is probably over-complicating things to the point this goes nowhere.  I
think
there is merit to mapping participants in the refill scheme and that it
isn't
very volatile.  All the other stuff about free glass of water, is a bottle
provided
(not for free, it won't be), is it a glass or carafe, etc. is volatile and
whimsical
(up to the owner of the establishment, depends how nicely you ask, phase of
moon, etc.)

If we end up with a tag for a refill scheme, I'll vote for it.  If we end
up with an
"All the possible ways of getting water, containers, and possible payment"
scheme, I'll probably vote against.

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Re: [Tagging] RFC free_water

[Jez Nicholson]

Yesbut (I believe that) this tag is driven by the 'refill scheme' use
case, which should be identifiable on-the-ground by displayed information.
Data could be collected by apps built by the schemes.

The general case of "will a retailer give me free water as a customer" case
is discussed to see whether it would make for a generic tag.

On Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 8:45 AM Philip Barnes  wrote:

> I would tend to agree with Frederik.
>
> In GB (1) all licensed premises (2) must offer free tap water to
> customers. This covers all  pubs and bars, most restaurants and some cafe.
> The mappers time would be far more efficiently spent adding a tag to
> indicate which restaurants and cafes are licensed. This can be verified
> from outside, which is simple.
>
> Retail mapping, and keeping it current, is hard enough. You cannot
> practically gather this information by walking into cafes and asking, that
> would not be efficient and if you rely on places you have been a customer
> you.will end up with very incomplete data.
>
> Phil (trigpoint)
>
> 1. Wales, Scotland and England. Northern Irish law is different on this.
>
> 2. Licensed to sell alcohol.
>
>
> On Wednesday, 22 January 2020, Frederik Ramm wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > On 17.01.20 07:37, European Water Project wrote:
> > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Free_Water
> >
> > My opinion on this is:
> >
> > 1. It is not something that should be mapped in OSM at all; this is a
> > volatile property like mapping menu items for a restaurant or product
> > offers for a supermarket and may change at any time.
> >
> > 2. Even if we wanted to map this property, insofar as a whole chain has
> > been signed up ("all XYZ outlets in ABC country offer free water"), it
> > is wasteful to add the tag to every single outlet and it should just be
> > recorded centrally (i.e. an app displaying free water options should
> > simply highlight all outlets with operator=X or brand=X).
> >
> > 3. When we're talking about non-chain restaurants, the decision whether
> > a random traveller will be offered a free refill for their water bottle
> > can very well depend on the day of week, how politely the traveller
> > asks, or how busy the place is - just because you've been given free
> > water doesn't mean you should claim everybody gets it every time.
> >
> > 4. Even if all of the above were ignored, I think "free=yes" is too
> > limited, and would concur with those who have suggested a "fee=no"
> > approach, because if you are charged a dollar for your refill you can
> > simply put "fee=$1".
> >
> > Bye
> > Frederik
> >
> > --
> > Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
> >
> > ___
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> > Tagging@openstreetmap.org
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>
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Re: [Tagging] RFC free_water

[Philip Barnes]

I would tend to agree with Frederik.

In GB (1) all licensed premises (2) must offer free tap water to customers. 
This covers all  pubs and bars, most restaurants and some cafe. The mappers 
time would be far more efficiently spent adding a tag to indicate which 
restaurants and cafes are licensed. This can be verified from outside, which is 
simple.

Retail mapping, and keeping it current, is hard enough. You cannot practically 
gather this information by walking into cafes and asking, that would not be 
efficient and if you rely on places you have been a customer you.will end up 
with very incomplete data.

Phil (trigpoint)

1. Wales, Scotland and England. Northern Irish law is different on this. 

2. Licensed to sell alcohol. 


On Wednesday, 22 January 2020, Frederik Ramm wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On 17.01.20 07:37, European Water Project wrote:
> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Free_Water
> 
> My opinion on this is:
> 
> 1. It is not something that should be mapped in OSM at all; this is a
> volatile property like mapping menu items for a restaurant or product
> offers for a supermarket and may change at any time.
> 
> 2. Even if we wanted to map this property, insofar as a whole chain has
> been signed up ("all XYZ outlets in ABC country offer free water"), it
> is wasteful to add the tag to every single outlet and it should just be
> recorded centrally (i.e. an app displaying free water options should
> simply highlight all outlets with operator=X or brand=X).
> 
> 3. When we're talking about non-chain restaurants, the decision whether
> a random traveller will be offered a free refill for their water bottle
> can very well depend on the day of week, how politely the traveller
> asks, or how busy the place is - just because you've been given free
> water doesn't mean you should claim everybody gets it every time.
> 
> 4. Even if all of the above were ignored, I think "free=yes" is too
> limited, and would concur with those who have suggested a "fee=no"
> approach, because if you are charged a dollar for your refill you can
> simply put "fee=$1".
> 
> Bye
> Frederik
> 
> -- 
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
> 
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Re: [Tagging] RFC free_water

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 17.01.20 07:37, European Water Project wrote:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Free_Water

My opinion on this is:

1. It is not something that should be mapped in OSM at all; this is a
volatile property like mapping menu items for a restaurant or product
offers for a supermarket and may change at any time.

2. Even if we wanted to map this property, insofar as a whole chain has
been signed up ("all XYZ outlets in ABC country offer free water"), it
is wasteful to add the tag to every single outlet and it should just be
recorded centrally (i.e. an app displaying free water options should
simply highlight all outlets with operator=X or brand=X).

3. When we're talking about non-chain restaurants, the decision whether
a random traveller will be offered a free refill for their water bottle
can very well depend on the day of week, how politely the traveller
asks, or how busy the place is - just because you've been given free
water doesn't mean you should claim everybody gets it every time.

4. Even if all of the above were ignored, I think "free=yes" is too
limited, and would concur with those who have suggested a "fee=no"
approach, because if you are charged a dollar for your refill you can
simply put "fee=$1".

Bye
Frederik

-- 
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Re: [Tagging] RFC free_water

[European Water Project]

Dear Florimond,

In my opinion English is a language of affirmations and conditional
affirmations more than a language of negations with caveats.I fully
acknowledge and respect your differing opinion.

I will give other  examples of how :free could be used affirmatively :

Free wifi at a bar could be
bar:wifi:free =

describing bar:wifi:fee = no  is not KISS

Free battery recharge for Tesla owners for example would be better
described as an affirmation than no fee for everyone but Tesla owners.

I have modified the proposal to be :
drinking_water:free = 
drinking_water:bottle = 

Best regards,

Stuart

PS : Giving free bottle water is not so rare and I hope becomes common
place like toilet access for anyone which has become legally mandatory in
many US municipalities. Refill UK has already signed up 1,000s of cafés in
the UK. Sarah Elrich with free tap water in Belgian restaurants has been
quite successful in signing up restaurant chains across Belgium.



On Tue, 21 Jan 2020 at 21:58, Florimond Berthoux <
florimond.berth...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Well,
> if the ice cream parlour sells only bottle water it should be tagged
> drinking_water:fee=yes
> if the ice cream parlour gives free tap water and sell bottle water it
> should be tagged drinking_water:fee=no
> Giving free bottle water is rare, the only common case I see is hotel for
> their customers, so most people with drinking_water:fee=yes would not
> expect free bottle water.
> I think fee should have the value for the lowest fee of a service.
>
> Fee apply to a service if I believe the Cambridge dictionary
> https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/fee
> «an amount of money paid for a particular piece of work or for a
> particular right or service»
> I consider bottle water more like a product than a service, where as
> drinking water is more like a service.
>
>
> Le mar. 21 janv. 2020 à 11:21, European Water Project <
> europeanwaterproj...@gmail.com> a écrit :
> >
> > Hi Martin,
> >
> > haha ..  https://moneyinc.com/10-expensive-bottled-waters-world/
> >
> > Acqua di Cristallo Tributo a Modigliani
> >
> > A $60,000 750 ml bottle of world no comment.
> >
> > There are plenty of restaurants and cafés which don't sell water to
> non-customers.
> >
> > I just don't believe there is an equivalency between
> >
> > - free and NOT (fee) ; and
> > - NOT (free) and fee.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Stuart
> >
> > On Tue, 21 Jan 2020 at 11:06, Martin Koppenhoefer <
> dieterdre...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> sent from a phone
> >>
> >> > On 21. Jan 2020, at 10:22, European Water Project <
> europeanwaterproj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > If a cafe is tagged "drinking_water:fee=yes", it could lead people
> erroneously to believe that the tagged cafe sells water ?
> >>
> >>
> >> I’ve yet to see a cafe that doesn’t sell water.
> >>
> >> Btw, I guess you are less interested in tagging luxury water? I’ve once
> seen a tourist aiming shop in Berlin that sold japanese (IIRR) bottled
> water for something like 5 Euros half a liter (takeaway, not a cafe).
> >>
> >> Cheers Martin
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
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>
>
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Re: [Tagging] RFC free_water

[Florimond Berthoux]

Well,
if the ice cream parlour sells only bottle water it should be tagged
drinking_water:fee=yes
if the ice cream parlour gives free tap water and sell bottle water it
should be tagged drinking_water:fee=no
Giving free bottle water is rare, the only common case I see is hotel for
their customers, so most people with drinking_water:fee=yes would not
expect free bottle water.
I think fee should have the value for the lowest fee of a service.

Fee apply to a service if I believe the Cambridge dictionary
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/fee
«an amount of money paid for a particular piece of work or for a particular
right or service»
I consider bottle water more like a product than a service, where as
drinking water is more like a service.


Le mar. 21 janv. 2020 à 11:21, European Water Project <
europeanwaterproj...@gmail.com> a écrit :
>
> Hi Martin,
>
> haha ..  https://moneyinc.com/10-expensive-bottled-waters-world/
>
> Acqua di Cristallo Tributo a Modigliani
>
> A $60,000 750 ml bottle of world no comment.
>
> There are plenty of restaurants and cafés which don't sell water to
non-customers.
>
> I just don't believe there is an equivalency between
>
> - free and NOT (fee) ; and
> - NOT (free) and fee.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Stuart
>
> On Tue, 21 Jan 2020 at 11:06, Martin Koppenhoefer 
wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> sent from a phone
>>
>> > On 21. Jan 2020, at 10:22, European Water Project <
europeanwaterproj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > If a cafe is tagged "drinking_water:fee=yes", it could lead people
erroneously to believe that the tagged cafe sells water ?
>>
>>
>> I’ve yet to see a cafe that doesn’t sell water.
>>
>> Btw, I guess you are less interested in tagging luxury water? I’ve once
seen a tourist aiming shop in Berlin that sold japanese (IIRR) bottled
water for something like 5 Euros half a liter (takeaway, not a cafe).
>>
>> Cheers Martin
>>
>>
>> ___
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>
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Re: [Tagging] RFC free_water

[European Water Project]

Hi Martin,

haha ..  https://moneyinc.com/10-expensive-bottled-waters-world/
Acqua di Cristallo Tributo a Modigliani

A $60,000 750 ml bottle of world no comment.

There are plenty of restaurants and cafés which don't sell water to
non-customers.

I just don't believe there is an equivalency between

- free and NOT (fee) ; and
- NOT (free) and fee.

Best regards,

Stuart

On Tue, 21 Jan 2020 at 11:06, Martin Koppenhoefer 
wrote:

>
>
> sent from a phone
>
> > On 21. Jan 2020, at 10:22, European Water Project <
> europeanwaterproj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > If a cafe is tagged "drinking_water:fee=yes", it could lead people
> erroneously to believe that the tagged cafe sells water ?
>
>
> I’ve yet to see a cafe that doesn’t sell water.
>
> Btw, I guess you are less interested in tagging luxury water? I’ve once
> seen a tourist aiming shop in Berlin that sold japanese (IIRR) bottled
> water for something like 5 Euros half a liter (takeaway, not a cafe).
>
> Cheers Martin
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] RFC free_water

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 21. Jan 2020, at 10:22, European Water Project 
>  wrote:
> 
> If a cafe is tagged "drinking_water:fee=yes", it could lead people 
> erroneously to believe that the tagged cafe sells water ?  


I’ve yet to see a cafe that doesn’t sell water.

Btw, I guess you are less interested in tagging luxury water? I’ve once seen a 
tourist aiming shop in Berlin that sold japanese (IIRR) bottled water for 
something like 5 Euros half a liter (takeaway, not a cafe).

Cheers Martin 


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Re: [Tagging] RFC free_water

[European Water Project]

Hi Florimond,

I can see your logic, even if I still prefer  drinking_water:free. One more
issue I see with drinking_water:fee.

If a cafe is tagged "drinking_water:fee=yes", it could lead people
erroneously to believe that the tagged cafe sells water ?

It could be that the café or ice cream parlour doesn't sell bottle in
single-use PET bottles or have drinking quality water tap water.

Best regards,

Stuart

On Tue, 21 Jan 2020 at 09:59, Florimond Berthoux <
florimond.berth...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Le lun. 20 janv. 2020 à 16:16, European Water Project
>  a écrit :
> >
> > Dear Florimond,
> >
> > What seems preferable about  drinking_water:free=  is
> that it is a tag that offers a complete response .
> >
> > drinking_water:fee, necessitates a follow up qualification. If no, then
> for whom if not for everyone ? If yes, then how much and is it the same fee
> for customers and non-customers alike?
>
> No, for me these tags are equal
> drinking_water:free=no <=> drinking_water:fee=yes
> drinking_water:free=yes <=> drinking_water:fee=no
> drinking_water:free=customers <=> drinking_water:fee=free_for_customers
>
> --
> Florimond Berthoux
>
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Re: [Tagging] RFC free_water

[Florimond Berthoux]

Le lun. 20 janv. 2020 à 16:16, European Water Project
 a écrit :
>
> Dear Florimond,
>
> What seems preferable about  drinking_water:free=  is that 
> it is a tag that offers a complete response .
>
> drinking_water:fee, necessitates a follow up qualification. If no, then for 
> whom if not for everyone ? If yes, then how much and is it the same fee for 
> customers and non-customers alike?

No, for me these tags are equal
drinking_water:free=no <=> drinking_water:fee=yes
drinking_water:free=yes <=> drinking_water:fee=no
drinking_water:free=customers <=> drinking_water:fee=free_for_customers

-- 
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Re: [Tagging] RFC free_water

[European Water Project]

Dear Florimond,

What seems preferable about  drinking_water:free=  is
that it is a tag that offers a complete response .

drinking_water:fee, necessitates a follow up qualification. If no, then for
whom if not for everyone ? If yes, then how much and is it the same fee for
customers and non-customers alike?

Best regards,

Stuart



On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 at 15:28, Florimond Berthoux <
florimond.berth...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Le sam. 18 janv. 2020 à 18:37, European Water Project
>  a écrit :
> > drinking_water:fee=yes/no
> > drinking_water:fee:conditional="no @ customers" alternavite:
> drinking_water:fee:customers=no
> > I can see how this works from a logic point of view, but still seems a
> bit convoluted
> >
> > I still prefer this because in one tag, we get almost everything.  I do
> realize there is some inconsistency with this tag name.
> > drinking_water:free=
>
> Ok, I understand, if we look at
> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/fee#values other values exist
> like unknown, donation or even time table.
> There also some tags meaning "free for customers" but different
> syntax, it's little messy, so maybe we should normalize that with
> drinking_water:fee=free_for_customers ?
>
> (There is also drinking_water:fee=customers but I don't understand
> what it can means, only customers have to pay ? that's weird.)
>
> The problem I have with drinking_water:free is that free is not a tag
> currently, and it would be an alias for drinking_water:fee with
> opposite value.
>
> > I even think that drinking_water:free = yes might be a sufficient tag
> for all cafes, bars, clubs and restaurants willing to participate in the
> refill revolution. And that the bottle precision might only be necessary
> for those refusing bottles and insisting on serving a glass of water.
>
> I agree.
>
> --
> Florimond Berthoux
>
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Re: [Tagging] RFC free_water

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 18. Jan 2020, at 18:08, Florimond Berthoux  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi, I added my proposal:
> 
> drinking_water:fee=yes/no
> drinking_water:fee:conditional="no @ customers" alternavite: 
> drinking_water:fee:customers=no
> drinking_water:bottle=yes/no
> 
> I think that the key bottle=* can fit your needs to know if you can refill 
> you bottle easily or not. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:bottle
> I suffix it by drinking_water because bottle alone would look like a lost tag 
> in a cafe/restaurant tag table


fee is relative. I’ve seen municipal/public water dispensers which gave 
chilled/sparkling drinking water for a small fee ( 0.10 eur per liter), 
although this is not free, it comes close. This one I’ve tagged as vending 
machine:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/6840148574


Admittedly without the “description“ it would loose a lot of information and 
your tag proposal would encourage to add these in a formal way.

For “fee”, the amount is interesting (without going into more complex pricing 
details it could be defined as the price for one bottle refill)

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Re: [Tagging] RFC free_water

[Florimond Berthoux]

Le sam. 18 janv. 2020 à 18:37, European Water Project
 a écrit :
> drinking_water:fee=yes/no
> drinking_water:fee:conditional="no @ customers" alternavite: 
> drinking_water:fee:customers=no
> I can see how this works from a logic point of view, but still seems a bit 
> convoluted
>
> I still prefer this because in one tag, we get almost everything.  I do 
> realize there is some inconsistency with this tag name.
> drinking_water:free=

Ok, I understand, if we look at
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/fee#values other values exist
like unknown, donation or even time table.
There also some tags meaning "free for customers" but different
syntax, it's little messy, so maybe we should normalize that with
drinking_water:fee=free_for_customers ?

(There is also drinking_water:fee=customers but I don't understand
what it can means, only customers have to pay ? that's weird.)

The problem I have with drinking_water:free is that free is not a tag
currently, and it would be an alias for drinking_water:fee with
opposite value.

> I even think that drinking_water:free = yes might be a sufficient tag for all 
> cafes, bars, clubs and restaurants willing to participate in the refill 
> revolution. And that the bottle precision might only be necessary for those 
> refusing bottles and insisting on serving a glass of water.

I agree.

-- 
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Re: [Tagging] RFC free_water

[European Water Project]

Hello Florimond,

drinking_water:bottle = yes/no
seems quite good because it's pretty obvious that it would be your own
bottle if it is free water. I am happy to use this nomenclature if it is
more consistent and others are in agreement.

drinking_water:fee=yes/no
drinking_water:fee:conditional="no @ customers" alternavite:
drinking_water:fee:customers=no
I can see how this works from a logic point of view, but still seems a bit
convoluted

I still prefer this because in one tag, we get almost everything.  I do
realize there is some inconsistency with this tag name.
drinking_water:free=

I even think that drinking_water:free = yes might be a sufficient tag for
all cafes, bars, clubs and restaurants willing to participate in the refill
revolution. And that the bottle precision might only be necessary for those
refusing bottles and insisting on serving a glass of water.

Best regards,

Stuart



On Sat, 18 Jan 2020 at 18:08, Florimond Berthoux <
florimond.berth...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi, I added my proposal:
>
> drinking_water:fee=yes/no
> drinking_water:fee:conditional="no @ customers" alternavite:
> drinking_water:fee:customers=no
> drinking_water:bottle=yes/no
>
> I think that the key bottle=* can fit your needs to know if you can refill
> you bottle easily or not. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:bottle
> I suffix it by drinking_water because bottle alone would look like a lost
> tag in a cafe/restaurant tag table.
>
> Regards.
>
> Le sam. 18 janv. 2020 à 07:50, European Water Project <
> europeanwaterproj...@gmail.com> a écrit :
> >>
> >>
> >>2. Re: RFC free_water (Joseph Eisenberg)
> >
> > >>> Joseph, I have just turned off the digest feature ... so hopefully
> this will be the last of this wacky system which has been driving me crazy.
> >
> > I have just added a top section to  the discussion page for :
> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/Free_Water
> >
> > I propose that everyone contribute in this section without verbage or
> rationale an elegant and complete solution which solves the below.
> > 1. Is there free drinking water available ?
> > 2. For whom is it free ? if it is the case that there is free water
> available
> > 3. If it is free for everyone, can you bring your own container ?.
>  (bottle)
> >
> > My current preferred solution which is now on the top of the discussion
> page is :
> > drinking_water:free = 
> > drinking_water:free:container = 
> >
> > After making a proposal, it would seem to make sense to explain why they
> believe their set of tags is the best.
> >
> > I hope this can help expedite the process.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Stuart
>
> --
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Re: [Tagging] RFC free_water

[Florimond Berthoux]

Hi, I added my proposal:

drinking_water:fee=yes/no
drinking_water:fee:conditional="no @ customers" alternavite:
drinking_water:fee:customers=no
drinking_water:bottle=yes/no

I think that the key bottle=* can fit your needs to know if you can refill
you bottle easily or not. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:bottle
I suffix it by drinking_water because bottle alone would look like a lost
tag in a cafe/restaurant tag table.

Regards.

Le sam. 18 janv. 2020 à 07:50, European Water Project <
europeanwaterproj...@gmail.com> a écrit :
>>
>>
>>2. Re: RFC free_water (Joseph Eisenberg)
>
> >>> Joseph, I have just turned off the digest feature ... so hopefully
this will be the last of this wacky system which has been driving me crazy.
>
> I have just added a top section to  the discussion page for :
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/Free_Water
>
> I propose that everyone contribute in this section without verbage or
rationale an elegant and complete solution which solves the below.
> 1. Is there free drinking water available ?
> 2. For whom is it free ? if it is the case that there is free water
available
> 3. If it is free for everyone, can you bring your own container ?.
 (bottle)
>
> My current preferred solution which is now on the top of the discussion
page is :
> drinking_water:free = 
> drinking_water:free:container = 
>
> After making a proposal, it would seem to make sense to explain why they
believe their set of tags is the best.
>
> I hope this can help expedite the process.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Stuart

-- 
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Re: [Tagging] RFC free_water

[European Water Project]

>
>
>2. Re: RFC free_water (Joseph Eisenberg)
>
>>> Joseph, I have just turned off the digest feature ... so hopefully this
will be the last of this wacky system which has been driving me crazy.

I have just added a top section to  the discussion page for :
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/Free_Water

I propose that everyone contribute in this section without verbage or
rationale an elegant and complete solution which solves the below.
1. Is there free drinking water available ?
2. For whom is it free ? if it is the case that there is free
water available
3. If it is free for everyone, can you bring your own container ?.  (bottle)

My current preferred solution which is now on the top of the discussion
page is :
drinking_water:free = 
drinking_water:free:container = 

After making a proposal, it would seem to make sense to explain why they
believe their set of tags is the best.

I hope this can help expedite the process.

Best regards,

Stuart


>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2020 07:31:13 +0900
> From: Joseph Eisenberg 
> To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools"
> 
> Subject: Re: [Tagging] RFC free_water
> Message-ID:
>  ws4ihxuk...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> > tap_water=
>
> That will not work here in Indonesia. You do not drink the tap water here,
> or in most countries in Asia.
>
> -Joseph Eisenberg
>
> On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 4:27 AM Alessandro Sarretta <
> alessandro.sarre...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> > On 17/01/20 12:08, European Water Project wrote:
> >
> >  2. Re: RFC free_water (François Lacombe)
> >>
> >
> > I see your point and agree it would be preferable to develop a more
> > generalize nomenclature, but also think it is important to choose
> something
> > that is understandable to a newbie.
> >
> > If we chose charge:water
> > <
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:charge:water=edit=1
> >
> > =free
> > <
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:charge:water%3Dfree=edit=1
> >
> >  we would need to differentiate when the water is free to anyone (yes in
> > OSM speak) or just paying customers (customers in OSM speak).
> >
> > We could use :
> > charge:water
> > <
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:charge:water=edit=1
> >
> > = > <
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:charge:water%3Dfree=edit=1
> >
> > /fee>
> > access = 
> > container = 
> >
> > In the above, European Water Project would only include cafés, bars, etc.
> > with
> > charge:water
> > <
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:charge:water=edit=1
> >
> > =free
> > <
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:charge:water%3Dfree=edit=1
> >
> > access = yes
> > container = bring_own
> >
> > If you use the tag *access* alone, it could refer to the "main" feature
> > (the bar or restaurant...).
> >
> > And water is probably too general... I try suggesting to use *tap_water*,
> > that should clearly state that is not bottle water :-)
> >
> > So it could be:
> >
> >- tap_water=yes/no/customers
> >- tap_water:free=yes/no/customers
> >- tap_water:container=*
> >
> > This way it seems to me you should be able to cover all the possibilities
> > clearly.
> >
> > m2c
> >
> > Ale
> > ___
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Re: [Tagging] RFC free_water

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 17. Jan 2020, at 20:27, Alessandro Sarretta 
>  wrote:
> 
> And water is probably too general... I try suggesting to use tap_water, that 
> should clearly state that is not bottle water :-)
> 
> So it could be:
> 
> tap_water=yes/no/customers
> tap_water:free=yes/no/customers
> tap_water:container=*
> This way it seems to me you should be able to cover all the possibilities 
> clearly.
> 


as we’re talking about the specifics of the water, it is not uncommon to have 
bars, restaurants and cafes sell filtered tap water (by them, not the bottled 
version that some multinational corps sell as table water), chilled and 
sparkling if you wish so. Some of them explicitly do not sell other water, some 
offer both kind.

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Re: [Tagging] RFC free_water

[Joseph Eisenberg]

> tap_water=

That will not work here in Indonesia. You do not drink the tap water here,
or in most countries in Asia.

-Joseph Eisenberg

On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 4:27 AM Alessandro Sarretta <
alessandro.sarre...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> On 17/01/20 12:08, European Water Project wrote:
>
>  2. Re: RFC free_water (François Lacombe)
>>
>
> I see your point and agree it would be preferable to develop a more
> generalize nomenclature, but also think it is important to choose something
> that is understandable to a newbie.
>
> If we chose charge:water
> 
> =free
> 
>  we would need to differentiate when the water is free to anyone (yes in
> OSM speak) or just paying customers (customers in OSM speak).
>
> We could use :
> charge:water
> 
> = 
> /fee>
> access = 
> container = 
>
> In the above, European Water Project would only include cafés, bars, etc.
> with
> charge:water
> 
> =free
> 
> access = yes
> container = bring_own
>
> If you use the tag *access* alone, it could refer to the "main" feature
> (the bar or restaurant...).
>
> And water is probably too general... I try suggesting to use *tap_water*,
> that should clearly state that is not bottle water :-)
>
> So it could be:
>
>- tap_water=yes/no/customers
>- tap_water:free=yes/no/customers
>- tap_water:container=*
>
> This way it seems to me you should be able to cover all the possibilities
> clearly.
>
> m2c
>
> Ale
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Re: [Tagging] RFC free_water

[Paul Johnson]

I'm not sure what European Water Project is doing to break threading, but
could you kindly not do that?  Most likely this is caused by replying to an
undigested digest, in which you really should be going with individual
delivery or using procmail to split the digest into individual messages
before replying.

On Fri, Jan 17, 2020 at 2:48 PM European Water Project <
europeanwaterproj...@gmail.com> wrote:

> 3. Re: RFC free_water (Alessandro Sarretta)
>
> >>>> Francois, Florimond, Alessandro,
>
> First, thanks to all of you for taking so much time to reflect on this
> subject which is core to our project.
>
> I see three concepts that need to be described.
>
> 1. Is there free water available ?
> 2. For whom is it free ? if it is the case that there is free water
> available
> 3. If it is free for everyone, can you bring your own container ?.
>
> Here are some alternatives which seem to be getting traction for each of
> the three concepts. I have removed free_water as it doesn't seem to be
> getting consensus.
>
> After feedback, I will update the draft proposal.
>
> For 1.
> charge:water=
> drinking_water:fee=yes/no
> tap_water:free=yes/no/customers
>
>
> For 2.
> access:water = 
> tap_water=yes/no/customers
> drinking_water:access=yes/no/customers
>
> For 3.
> container:water = 
> tap_water:container=*
>
> Best regards,
>
> Stuart
>
>
>>
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2020 20:25:28 +0100
>> From: Alessandro Sarretta 
>> To: tagging@openstreetmap.org
>> Subject: Re: [Tagging] RFC free_water
>> Message-ID: <9665c5e1-9a9b-e388-bff6-56366974b...@gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On 17/01/20 12:08, European Water Project wrote:
>> >
>> >  2. Re: RFC free_water (François Lacombe)
>> >
>> >
>> > I see your point and agree it would be preferable to develop a more
>> > generalize nomenclature, but also think it is important to choose
>> > something that is understandable to a newbie.
>> >
>> > If we chose charge:water
>> > <
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:charge:water=edit=1>=free
>>
>> > <
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:charge:water%3Dfree=edit=1>we
>>
>> > would need to differentiate when the water is free to anyone (yes in
>> > OSM speak) or just paying customers (customers in OSM speak).
>> >
>> > We could use :
>> > charge:water
>> > <
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:charge:water=edit=1>=>
>> > <
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:charge:water%3Dfree=edit=1
>> >/fee>
>> > access = 
>> > container = 
>> >
>> > In the above, European Water Project would only include cafés, bars,
>> > etc. with
>> > charge:water
>> > <
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:charge:water=edit=1>=free
>>
>> > <
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:charge:water%3Dfree=edit=1
>> >
>> > access = yes
>> > container = bring_own
>>
>> If you use the tag /access/ alone, it could refer to the "main" feature
>> (the bar or restaurant...).
>>
>> And water is probably too general... I try suggesting to use
>> /tap_water/, that should clearly state that is not bottle water :-)
>>
>> So it could be:
>>
>>   * tap_water=yes/no/customers
>>   * tap_water:free=yes/no/customers
>>   * tap_water:container=*
>>
>> This way it seems to me you should be able to cover all the
>> possibilities clearly.
>>
>> m2c
>>
>> Ale
>>
>> -- next part --
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>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/attachments/20200117/b7f56b29/attachment.htm
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Re: [Tagging] RFC free_water

[Paul Allen]

On Fri, 17 Jan 2020 at 20:49, European Water Project <
europeanwaterproj...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> 1. Is there free water available ?
> 2. For whom is it free ? if it is the case that there is free water
> available
> 3. If it is free for everyone, can you bring your own container ?.
>

Do you know of any scheme where you are provided with a free container
along with your free water?  I would suggest that if there is a charge for
supplying a container then the water is effectively not free.

Even if the container were free, the whole point of these schemes is
to provide alternatives to people buying water in disposable containers
and encourage container re-use.

-- 
Paul
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Re: [Tagging] RFC free_water

[European Water Project]

3. Re: RFC free_water (Alessandro Sarretta)

>>>> Francois, Florimond, Alessandro,

First, thanks to all of you for taking so much time to reflect on this
subject which is core to our project.

I see three concepts that need to be described.

1. Is there free water available ?
2. For whom is it free ? if it is the case that there is free water
available
3. If it is free for everyone, can you bring your own container ?.

Here are some alternatives which seem to be getting traction for each of
the three concepts. I have removed free_water as it doesn't seem to be
getting consensus.

After feedback, I will update the draft proposal.

For 1.
charge:water=
drinking_water:fee=yes/no
tap_water:free=yes/no/customers


For 2.
access:water = 
tap_water=yes/no/customers
drinking_water:access=yes/no/customers

For 3.
container:water = 
tap_water:container=*

Best regards,

Stuart


>
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2020 20:25:28 +0100
> From: Alessandro Sarretta 
> To: tagging@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [Tagging] RFC free_water
> Message-ID: <9665c5e1-9a9b-e388-bff6-56366974b...@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
> Hi,
>
> On 17/01/20 12:08, European Water Project wrote:
> >
> >  2. Re: RFC free_water (François Lacombe)
> >
> >
> > I see your point and agree it would be preferable to develop a more
> > generalize nomenclature, but also think it is important to choose
> > something that is understandable to a newbie.
> >
> > If we chose charge:water
> > <
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:charge:water=edit=1>=free
>
> > <
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:charge:water%3Dfree=edit=1>we
>
> > would need to differentiate when the water is free to anyone (yes in
> > OSM speak) or just paying customers (customers in OSM speak).
> >
> > We could use :
> > charge:water
> > <
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:charge:water=edit=1>=
> > <
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:charge:water%3Dfree=edit=1
> >/fee>
> > access = 
> > container = 
> >
> > In the above, European Water Project would only include cafés, bars,
> > etc. with
> > charge:water
> > <
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:charge:water=edit=1>=free
>
> > <
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:charge:water%3Dfree=edit=1
> >
> > access = yes
> > container = bring_own
>
> If you use the tag /access/ alone, it could refer to the "main" feature
> (the bar or restaurant...).
>
> And water is probably too general... I try suggesting to use
> /tap_water/, that should clearly state that is not bottle water :-)
>
> So it could be:
>
>   * tap_water=yes/no/customers
>   * tap_water:free=yes/no/customers
>   * tap_water:container=*
>
> This way it seems to me you should be able to cover all the
> possibilities clearly.
>
> m2c
>
> Ale
>
> -- next part --
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> >
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Re: [Tagging] RFC free_water

[Alessandro Sarretta]

Hi,

On 17/01/20 12:08, European Water Project wrote:


 2. Re: RFC free_water (François Lacombe)


I see your point and agree it would be preferable to develop a more 
generalize nomenclature, but also think it is important to choose 
something that is understandable to a newbie.


If we chose charge:water 
=free 
we 
would need to differentiate when the water is free to anyone (yes in 
OSM speak) or just paying customers (customers in OSM speak).


We could use :
charge:water 
=/fee>

access = 
container = 

In the above, European Water Project would only include cafés, bars, 
etc. with
charge:water 
=free 


access = yes
container = bring_own


If you use the tag /access/ alone, it could refer to the "main" feature 
(the bar or restaurant...).


And water is probably too general... I try suggesting to use 
/tap_water/, that should clearly state that is not bottle water :-)


So it could be:

 * tap_water=yes/no/customers
 * tap_water:free=yes/no/customers
 * tap_water:container=*

This way it seems to me you should be able to cover all the 
possibilities clearly.


m2c

Ale

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Re: [Tagging] RFC free_water

[European Water Project]

>
>  2. Re: RFC free_water (François Lacombe)
>


Hi François,


I see your point and agree it would be preferable to develop a more
generalize nomenclature, but also think it is important to choose something
that is understandable to a newbie.

If we chose charge:water
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:charge:water=edit=1>
=free
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:charge:water%3Dfree=edit=1>
 we would need to differentiate when the water is free to anyone (yes in
OSM speak) or just paying customers (customers in OSM speak).

We could use :
charge:water
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:charge:water=edit=1>
=https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:charge:water%3Dfree=edit=1>
/fee>
access = 
container = 

In the above, European Water Project would only include cafés, bars, etc.
with
charge:water
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:charge:water=edit=1>
=free
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:charge:water%3Dfree=edit=1>
access = yes
container = bring_own

but the other permutations could be useful to others

Best regards,

Stuart

>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2020 10:05:08 +0100
> From: François Lacombe 
> To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools"
> 
> Subject: Re: [Tagging] RFC free_water
> Message-ID:
>  isepvro5ogydew2tbdo...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi Stuart
>
> Thank you for this document.
> It's a valuable effort and great to see you involve in a formal proposal
> process following discussions on local mailing list.
>
> i've posted a suggestion on the Talk page
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/Free_Water
>
> Best regards
>
> François
>
> Le ven. 17 janv. 2020 à 07:39, European Water Project <
> europeanwaterproj...@gmail.com> a écrit :
>
> > Dear All,
> >
> > Over the past days we have debated the merits of adding a new feature
> > free_water and a sub-feature free_water:container, applicable in the
> > context of cafes, bars, night-clubs, and restaurants which are willing to
> > give out free water for bottle refill to anybody.
> >
> > In the attached proposal - which of course rests a draft open to
> > amendments during the RFC period - I have attempted to properly take into
> > account the main theme comments which seemed both logical and represent
> the
> > majority opinion.
> >
> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Free_Water
> >
> > Thank you for your consideration,
> >
> > Stuart
> > ___
>
> -
>
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Re: [Tagging] RFC free_water

[François Lacombe]

Hi Stuart

Thank you for this document.
It's a valuable effort and great to see you involve in a formal proposal
process following discussions on local mailing list.

i've posted a suggestion on the Talk page
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/Free_Water

Best regards

François

Le ven. 17 janv. 2020 à 07:39, European Water Project <
europeanwaterproj...@gmail.com> a écrit :

> Dear All,
>
> Over the past days we have debated the merits of adding a new feature
> free_water and a sub-feature free_water:container, applicable in the
> context of cafes, bars, night-clubs, and restaurants which are willing to
> give out free water for bottle refill to anybody.
>
> In the attached proposal - which of course rests a draft open to
> amendments during the RFC period - I have attempted to properly take into
> account the main theme comments which seemed both logical and represent the
> majority opinion.
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Free_Water
>
> Thank you for your consideration,
>
> Stuart
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[Tagging] RFC free_water

[European Water Project]

Dear All,

Over the past days we have debated the merits of adding a new feature
free_water and a sub-feature free_water:container, applicable in the
context of cafes, bars, night-clubs, and restaurants which are willing to
give out free water for bottle refill to anybody.

In the attached proposal - which of course rests a draft open to amendments
during the RFC period - I have attempted to properly take into account the
main theme comments which seemed both logical and represent the majority
opinion.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Free_Water

Thank you for your consideration,

Stuart
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