Re: [Tagging] Adding mapillary tags to every building
On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 at 17:07, Cj Malone < me-osm-tagg...@keepawayfromfire.co.uk> wrote: > It's in Facebooks interest to have OSM be the best it possibly can. > Facebook doesn't want to be dependant on Google for map data, so they > are going to try and commoditise map data to improve competition. > > Google just released Google Maps SDK for Unity, an API for app > developers to make Pokemon Go type games. OSM can't compete on that > kind of ease of development. I think Facebook will come out with > similar APIs to try and stop Google growing it's map data market share. > > > How does Google's Unity SDK compare to the one that Mapbox offers? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Adding mapillary tags to every building
Yes, I do no trust FB declarations at all, it FB still refuses to attribute OSM properly and I hope that FB employees will not be elected into OSMF board. But in this case in FB self-interest is to keep this data available to OSM and I expect that they will continue this. Jun 19, 2020, 18:05 by me-osm-tagg...@keepawayfromfire.co.uk: > It's in Facebooks interest to have OSM be the best it possibly can. > Facebook doesn't want to be dependant on Google for map data, so they > are going to try and commoditise map data to improve competition. > > Google just released Google Maps SDK for Unity, an API for app > developers to make Pokemon Go type games. OSM can't compete on that > kind of ease of development. I think Facebook will come out with > similar APIs to try and stop Google growing it's map data market share. > > This is the iOS vs Android fight, except Google is Apple and Facebook > is Google. Competition is a good thing. > > > > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Adding mapillary tags to every building
It's in Facebooks interest to have OSM be the best it possibly can. Facebook doesn't want to be dependant on Google for map data, so they are going to try and commoditise map data to improve competition. Google just released Google Maps SDK for Unity, an API for app developers to make Pokemon Go type games. OSM can't compete on that kind of ease of development. I think Facebook will come out with similar APIs to try and stop Google growing it's map data market share. This is the iOS vs Android fight, except Google is Apple and Facebook is Google. Competition is a good thing. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Adding mapillary tags to every building
Let's hope the license will be permissive enough for other projects to take the data and continue their own way. They only said it will be free for commercial use, but it didn't say free as in beer or what. They said: > By continuing to make all images uploaded to Mapillary open, public, and > available to everyone > Which is pretty vague. pet, 19. lip 2020. u 13:42 Martin Koppenhoefer napisao je: > > > sent from a phone > > > On 19. Jun 2020, at 11:20, European Water Project < > europeanwaterproj...@gmail.com> wrote: > > For how long ? > > > for as long as Facebook wants. There is also the practical aspect: even if > the license is permissive, it doesn’t imply you can actually get the data > for downloading. > > Facebook has changed conditions of their services in the past, let’s > recall their whatsapp acquisition where they promised it would remain > “independent” from the rest of Facebook and where they then > combined/unified their messenger services under the same hood some years > later. If history has told us one thing, it’s not to trust facebook (IMHO > not even as far as you’re able to throw them)... > > Cheers Martin > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Adding mapillary tags to every building
sent from a phone > On 19. Jun 2020, at 11:20, European Water Project > wrote: > For how long ? for as long as Facebook wants. There is also the practical aspect: even if the license is permissive, it doesn’t imply you can actually get the data for downloading. Facebook has changed conditions of their services in the past, let’s recall their whatsapp acquisition where they promised it would remain “independent” from the rest of Facebook and where they then combined/unified their messenger services under the same hood some years later. If history has told us one thing, it’s not to trust facebook (IMHO not even as far as you’re able to throw them)... Cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Adding mapillary tags to every building
What leads you to believe that I am not calm ? Have a nice day. On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 at 11:40, Thibault Molleman wrote: > Calm down. > Normally if these images get their license upgraded to this newer license, > normally it shouldn't be able to be reverted. But we'll see once they > publish the license. > (I don't really see a reason why Facebook would want to do that though > tbh. Having Mapillary contain as much data as possible benefits them.) > And yes, it's free. in exchange for nothing except a mention that it was > from Mapillary. > The whole 'problem' that facebook has, has nothing to do with this. > it's not because a website uses Mapillary data that they need to implement > cookies and other facebook crap > Don't overreact.. > > On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 at 11:20, European Water Project < > europeanwaterproj...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi Thibault, >> >> all the mapillary data is from now free to use, even for commercial >> use : "Moving forward, that will continue to be true, except that starting >> today, it will also be free to use for commercial users as well" >> >> For how long ? and free in exchange for what --- the ability to place >> cookies, track and target users/clients with advertisements & political >> messages ? >> >> Best regards, >> >> Stuart >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 at 10:24, Thibault Molleman < >> thibaultmolle...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> While I'm not a fan of Facebook either. >>> If you play devils advocate. they have done some good stuff. and already >>> notice some good changes to mapilary as well: >>> - they have done some amazing work with 'map with AI' >>> - all the mapillary data is from now free to use, even for commercial >>> use : "Moving forward, that will continue to be true, except that starting >>> today, it will also be free to use for commercial users as well" >>> - and "This next chapter of Mapillary’s journey is an opportunity to >>> build upon our OpenStreetMap efforts to a degree that was not possible >>> earlier on. Previous OpenStreetMap development had to be balanced against >>> development work for other mapping use cases. As part of Facebook, we can >>> focus on OpenStreetMap while supporting Facebook’s open mapping efforts." >>> Source: https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jesolem/diary/393358 >>> >>> So this (in theorie) could be a good thing >>> >>> On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 at 07:28, European Water Project < >>> europeanwaterproj...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> Hopefully a significant level of data openness will continue to be part of Mapillary's business model. yes, we can just hope for it. Not more. Just in case someone missed this, Mapillary has been acquired by Facebook yesterday... https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2020/06/18/business/18reuters-facebook-deals-mapillary.html On Tue, Jun 9, 2020, 22:08 Andy Mabbett wrote: > On Mon, 8 Jun 2020 at 12:14, Janko Mihelić wrote: > > > Photos of buildings are even more notable then photos of bicycle > parking, > > so I'll try and take photos of a few buildings and see how that goes. > > > > I probably won't be creating a category for each building, so then I > will be > > linking to those pictures with the image=* tag, right? > > You might like this tool: > >https://tools.wmflabs.org/wikishootme/ > > which will tell you whether the buildings you photograph have an entry > in Wikidata, and whether or not that entry has an image; if not, once > you upload your image to Commons, you can also link to it from > Wikidata. > > (Although it can be used as I describe above, its primary purpose is > to find, for a given location, nearby Wikidata items that lack > images.) > > -- > Andy Mabbett > @pigsonthewing > http://pigsonthewing.org.uk > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >>> ___ >>> Tagging mailing list >>> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >>> >> ___ >> Tagging mailing list >> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >> > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Adding mapillary tags to every building
Calm down. Normally if these images get their license upgraded to this newer license, normally it shouldn't be able to be reverted. But we'll see once they publish the license. (I don't really see a reason why Facebook would want to do that though tbh. Having Mapillary contain as much data as possible benefits them.) And yes, it's free. in exchange for nothing except a mention that it was from Mapillary. The whole 'problem' that facebook has, has nothing to do with this. it's not because a website uses Mapillary data that they need to implement cookies and other facebook crap Don't overreact.. On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 at 11:20, European Water Project < europeanwaterproj...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Thibault, > > all the mapillary data is from now free to use, even for commercial > use : "Moving forward, that will continue to be true, except that starting > today, it will also be free to use for commercial users as well" > > For how long ? and free in exchange for what --- the ability to place > cookies, track and target users/clients with advertisements & political > messages ? > > Best regards, > > Stuart > > > > > > On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 at 10:24, Thibault Molleman < > thibaultmolle...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> While I'm not a fan of Facebook either. >> If you play devils advocate. they have done some good stuff. and already >> notice some good changes to mapilary as well: >> - they have done some amazing work with 'map with AI' >> - all the mapillary data is from now free to use, even for commercial use >> : "Moving forward, that will continue to be true, except that starting >> today, it will also be free to use for commercial users as well" >> - and "This next chapter of Mapillary’s journey is an opportunity to >> build upon our OpenStreetMap efforts to a degree that was not possible >> earlier on. Previous OpenStreetMap development had to be balanced against >> development work for other mapping use cases. As part of Facebook, we can >> focus on OpenStreetMap while supporting Facebook’s open mapping efforts." >> Source: https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jesolem/diary/393358 >> >> So this (in theorie) could be a good thing >> >> On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 at 07:28, European Water Project < >> europeanwaterproj...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Hopefully a significant level of data openness will continue to be part >>> of Mapillary's business model. >>> >>> >>> >>> yes, we can just hope for it. Not more. >>> >>> Just in case someone missed this, Mapillary has been acquired by >>> Facebook yesterday... >>> >>> >>> https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2020/06/18/business/18reuters-facebook-deals-mapillary.html >>> >>> On Tue, Jun 9, 2020, 22:08 Andy Mabbett >>> wrote: >>> On Mon, 8 Jun 2020 at 12:14, Janko Mihelić wrote: > Photos of buildings are even more notable then photos of bicycle parking, > so I'll try and take photos of a few buildings and see how that goes. > > I probably won't be creating a category for each building, so then I will be > linking to those pictures with the image=* tag, right? You might like this tool: https://tools.wmflabs.org/wikishootme/ which will tell you whether the buildings you photograph have an entry in Wikidata, and whether or not that entry has an image; if not, once you upload your image to Commons, you can also link to it from Wikidata. (Although it can be used as I describe above, its primary purpose is to find, for a given location, nearby Wikidata items that lack images.) -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >>> ___ >>> Tagging mailing list >>> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >>> >> ___ >> Tagging mailing list >> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >> > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Adding mapillary tags to every building
Hi Thibault, all the mapillary data is from now free to use, even for commercial use : "Moving forward, that will continue to be true, except that starting today, it will also be free to use for commercial users as well" For how long ? and free in exchange for what --- the ability to place cookies, track and target users/clients with advertisements & political messages ? Best regards, Stuart On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 at 10:24, Thibault Molleman wrote: > While I'm not a fan of Facebook either. > If you play devils advocate. they have done some good stuff. and already > notice some good changes to mapilary as well: > - they have done some amazing work with 'map with AI' > - all the mapillary data is from now free to use, even for commercial use > : "Moving forward, that will continue to be true, except that starting > today, it will also be free to use for commercial users as well" > - and "This next chapter of Mapillary’s journey is an opportunity to build > upon our OpenStreetMap efforts to a degree that was not possible earlier > on. Previous OpenStreetMap development had to be balanced against > development work for other mapping use cases. As part of Facebook, we can > focus on OpenStreetMap while supporting Facebook’s open mapping efforts." > Source: https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jesolem/diary/393358 > > So this (in theorie) could be a good thing > > On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 at 07:28, European Water Project < > europeanwaterproj...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hopefully a significant level of data openness will continue to be part >> of Mapillary's business model. >> >> >> >> yes, we can just hope for it. Not more. >> >> Just in case someone missed this, Mapillary has been acquired by Facebook >> yesterday... >> >> >> https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2020/06/18/business/18reuters-facebook-deals-mapillary.html >> >> On Tue, Jun 9, 2020, 22:08 Andy Mabbett >> wrote: >> >>> On Mon, 8 Jun 2020 at 12:14, Janko Mihelić wrote: >>> >>> > Photos of buildings are even more notable then photos of bicycle >>> parking, >>> > so I'll try and take photos of a few buildings and see how that goes. >>> > >>> > I probably won't be creating a category for each building, so then I >>> will be >>> > linking to those pictures with the image=* tag, right? >>> >>> You might like this tool: >>> >>>https://tools.wmflabs.org/wikishootme/ >>> >>> which will tell you whether the buildings you photograph have an entry >>> in Wikidata, and whether or not that entry has an image; if not, once >>> you upload your image to Commons, you can also link to it from >>> Wikidata. >>> >>> (Although it can be used as I describe above, its primary purpose is >>> to find, for a given location, nearby Wikidata items that lack >>> images.) >>> >>> -- >>> Andy Mabbett >>> @pigsonthewing >>> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk >>> >>> ___ >>> Tagging mailing list >>> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >>> >> ___ >> Tagging mailing list >> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >> > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Adding mapillary tags to every building
While I'm not a fan of Facebook either. If you play devils advocate. they have done some good stuff. and already notice some good changes to mapilary as well: - they have done some amazing work with 'map with AI' - all the mapillary data is from now free to use, even for commercial use : "Moving forward, that will continue to be true, except that starting today, it will also be free to use for commercial users as well" - and "This next chapter of Mapillary’s journey is an opportunity to build upon our OpenStreetMap efforts to a degree that was not possible earlier on. Previous OpenStreetMap development had to be balanced against development work for other mapping use cases. As part of Facebook, we can focus on OpenStreetMap while supporting Facebook’s open mapping efforts." Source: https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jesolem/diary/393358 So this (in theorie) could be a good thing On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 at 07:28, European Water Project < europeanwaterproj...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hopefully a significant level of data openness will continue to be part of > Mapillary's business model. > > > > yes, we can just hope for it. Not more. > > Just in case someone missed this, Mapillary has been acquired by Facebook > yesterday... > > > https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2020/06/18/business/18reuters-facebook-deals-mapillary.html > > On Tue, Jun 9, 2020, 22:08 Andy Mabbett wrote: > >> On Mon, 8 Jun 2020 at 12:14, Janko Mihelić wrote: >> >> > Photos of buildings are even more notable then photos of bicycle >> parking, >> > so I'll try and take photos of a few buildings and see how that goes. >> > >> > I probably won't be creating a category for each building, so then I >> will be >> > linking to those pictures with the image=* tag, right? >> >> You might like this tool: >> >>https://tools.wmflabs.org/wikishootme/ >> >> which will tell you whether the buildings you photograph have an entry >> in Wikidata, and whether or not that entry has an image; if not, once >> you upload your image to Commons, you can also link to it from >> Wikidata. >> >> (Although it can be used as I describe above, its primary purpose is >> to find, for a given location, nearby Wikidata items that lack >> images.) >> >> -- >> Andy Mabbett >> @pigsonthewing >> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk >> >> ___ >> Tagging mailing list >> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >> > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Adding mapillary tags to every building
Hopefully a significant level of data openness will continue to be part of Mapillary's business model. yes, we can just hope for it. Not more. Just in case someone missed this, Mapillary has been acquired by Facebook yesterday... https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2020/06/18/business/18reuters-facebook-deals-mapillary.html On Tue, Jun 9, 2020, 22:08 Andy Mabbett wrote: > On Mon, 8 Jun 2020 at 12:14, Janko Mihelić wrote: > > > Photos of buildings are even more notable then photos of bicycle parking, > > so I'll try and take photos of a few buildings and see how that goes. > > > > I probably won't be creating a category for each building, so then I > will be > > linking to those pictures with the image=* tag, right? > > You might like this tool: > >https://tools.wmflabs.org/wikishootme/ > > which will tell you whether the buildings you photograph have an entry > in Wikidata, and whether or not that entry has an image; if not, once > you upload your image to Commons, you can also link to it from > Wikidata. > > (Although it can be used as I describe above, its primary purpose is > to find, for a given location, nearby Wikidata items that lack > images.) > > -- > Andy Mabbett > @pigsonthewing > http://pigsonthewing.org.uk > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Adding mapillary tags to every building
On Mon, 8 Jun 2020 at 12:14, Janko Mihelić wrote: > Photos of buildings are even more notable then photos of bicycle parking, > so I'll try and take photos of a few buildings and see how that goes. > > I probably won't be creating a category for each building, so then I will be > linking to those pictures with the image=* tag, right? You might like this tool: https://tools.wmflabs.org/wikishootme/ which will tell you whether the buildings you photograph have an entry in Wikidata, and whether or not that entry has an image; if not, once you upload your image to Commons, you can also link to it from Wikidata. (Although it can be used as I describe above, its primary purpose is to find, for a given location, nearby Wikidata items that lack images.) -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Adding mapillary tags to every building
Dear Martin, Yes. In November/December I will start working on an image workflow which will make Commons the image storage repository for all our and have the OpenStreetMap object point to the corresponding wikimedia_commons tag. Best regards, Stuart On Tue, 9 Jun 2020 at 12:20, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > > sent from a phone > > > On 8. Jun 2020, at 11:53, European Water Project < > europeanwaterproj...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Which is why we seek to store user contributed images on Wikimedia > Commons (if they will accept them) rather than on our server. > > > +1, I completely agree, of all available options wikimedia commons seems a > good choice wrt openness and supposed stability/permanence. > Are you planning to change the image tags in OpenStreetMap after uploading > the pictures to commons? (I have noticed that currently they are pointing > to your server). > > Cheers Martin > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Adding mapillary tags to every building
sent from a phone > On 8. Jun 2020, at 11:53, European Water Project > wrote: > > Which is why we seek to store user contributed images on Wikimedia Commons > (if they will accept them) rather than on our server. +1, I completely agree, of all available options wikimedia commons seems a good choice wrt openness and supposed stability/permanence. Are you planning to change the image tags in OpenStreetMap after uploading the pictures to commons? (I have noticed that currently they are pointing to your server). Cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Adding mapillary tags to every building
Jun 8, 2020, 13:14 by jan...@gmail.com: > On Fri, Jun 5, 2020, 14:27 Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <> > tagging@openstreetmap.org> > wrote: > >> Wikimedia Commons has no notability requirements, see >> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Project_scope >> >> It is perfectly fine to upload things like that there. >> > > >> >> >> > Ok, you convinced me. Photos of buildings are even more notable then photos > of bicycle parking, so I'll try and take photos of a few buildings and see > how that goes. > > I probably won't be creating a category for each building, so then I will be > linking to those pictures with the image=* tag, right? > or/and with https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:wikimedia_commons I am doing it sometimes for especially interesting or especially complex objects (in addition or instead explanation in note tag). In case where object has a Wikipedia or OSM Wiki article ( https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Category:Feature_pages_with_missing_images ) adding image there may be helpful! (if you want to do this but have trouble with technical part of doing this - ask on a mailing list, OSM Telegram or in other such channel for help) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Adding mapillary tags to every building
On Fri, Jun 5, 2020, 14:27 Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging < tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote: > Wikimedia Commons has no notability requirements, see > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Project_scope > > It is perfectly fine to upload things like that there. > Ok, you convinced me. Photos of buildings are even more notable then photos of bicycle parking, so I'll try and take photos of a few buildings and see how that goes. I probably won't be creating a category for each building, so then I will be linking to those pictures with the image=* tag, right? Janko ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Adding mapillary tags to every building
Hi Martin, Similarly, our project might not be around forever ... once single-use plastic is a thing of the past :) Which is why we seek to store user contributed images on Wikimedia Commons (if they will accept them) rather than on our server. https://europeanwaterproject.org/photos/index.html Best regards, Stuart On Mon, 8 Jun 2020 at 11:27, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > > Am Mo., 8. Juni 2020 um 10:48 Uhr schrieb European Water Project < > europeanwaterproj...@gmail.com>: > >> Dear Martin, >> >> For-profit companies have different levels of openness, I think it would >> be a mistake to put them all in the same bucket. >> >> While all their data and images are not open, Mapillary shares many >> geolocalized images through creative commons licensing - in a more open >> manner than many non-profit companies and local municipalities. >> > > > I might have not been clear with "If mapillary doesn’t allow for > downloading the images (only thumbnails/previews) we should not link to > it.", what I meant was that I would not encourage people to build on > systems that aren't open (it didn't mean: go and remove them). I would also > not object to people doing it nonetheless (if the links are still useful > because you can get "something" from them), but we should be aware that we > are building on sand here. The owner of the external db (here mapillary) > can choose at any time to deny access to its data, or the company may go > bancrupt or close its business for other reasons and we might have put a > lot of effort into this in vain. Open projects allow for forking, while > proprietary systems usually don't, so that the usefulness of related tags > is deeply linked to the goodwill and operational situation of the company. > > > >> Hopefully a significant level of data openness will continue to be part >> of Mapillary's business model. >> >> > > yes, we can just hope for it. Not more. > > Cheers > Martin > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Adding mapillary tags to every building
Am Mo., 8. Juni 2020 um 10:48 Uhr schrieb European Water Project < europeanwaterproj...@gmail.com>: > Dear Martin, > > For-profit companies have different levels of openness, I think it would > be a mistake to put them all in the same bucket. > > While all their data and images are not open, Mapillary shares many > geolocalized images through creative commons licensing - in a more open > manner than many non-profit companies and local municipalities. > I might have not been clear with "If mapillary doesn’t allow for downloading the images (only thumbnails/previews) we should not link to it.", what I meant was that I would not encourage people to build on systems that aren't open (it didn't mean: go and remove them). I would also not object to people doing it nonetheless (if the links are still useful because you can get "something" from them), but we should be aware that we are building on sand here. The owner of the external db (here mapillary) can choose at any time to deny access to its data, or the company may go bancrupt or close its business for other reasons and we might have put a lot of effort into this in vain. Open projects allow for forking, while proprietary systems usually don't, so that the usefulness of related tags is deeply linked to the goodwill and operational situation of the company. > Hopefully a significant level of data openness will continue to be part of > Mapillary's business model. > > yes, we can just hope for it. Not more. Cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Adding mapillary tags to every building
Dear Martin, For-profit companies have different levels of openness, I think it would be a mistake to put them all in the same bucket. While all their data and images are not open, Mapillary shares many geolocalized images through creative commons licensing - in a more open manner than many non-profit companies and local municipalities. Hopefully a significant level of data openness will continue to be part of Mapillary's business model. Best regards, Stuart On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 at 10:28, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > > sent from a phone > > > On 5. Jun 2020, at 10:14, European Water Project < > europeanwaterproj...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > They also expressed interest in having more Mapillary images linked to > OSM objects. > > > from the OpenStreetMap point of view it seems preferable to have the > images we link to available openly. If mapillary doesn’t allow for > downloading the images (only thumbnails/previews) we should not link to it. > > Cheers Martin > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Adding mapillary tags to every building
sent from a phone > On 5. Jun 2020, at 10:14, European Water Project > wrote: > > They also expressed interest in having more Mapillary images linked to OSM > objects. from the OpenStreetMap point of view it seems preferable to have the images we link to available openly. If mapillary doesn’t allow for downloading the images (only thumbnails/previews) we should not link to it. Cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Adding mapillary tags to every building
Hi Mateusz, On Thu, Jun 04, 2020 at 06:13:12PM +0200, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging wrote: > Jun 4, 2020, 16:00 by vinc...@bergeot.org: > > > Le 04/06/2020 à 15:49, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging a écrit : > > > >> You have right to use your own images, AFAIK there is also a special > >> permission > >> for OSM mapping but otherwise images are owned by them. > >> > > > > mapillary picture are CC-BY-SA, you can use pictures and download them > > without pay nothing. > > > Scroll down on https://www.mapillary.com/pricing to "Commonly asked questions" > "Can I download image files?" > > You can download thumbnails (up to 2048 pixels wide) of Mapillary public > imagery, > and originals of images you've contributed yourself. If you have a > subscription to > Mapillary public imagery, you can use and access the imagery for commercial > use > through the Mapillary platform, integrations, and APIs. You will not be able > to > download original image files. > > I have no idea how at at the same time Mapillary claims on the same page > "Mapillary imagery is also available under an open license (CC BY-SA)." > and offers "Use Mapillary public imagery" for 2000$/year (up to 25km of roads > is free according to this page) > Mapillary claims that it is not possible to download original images even if > you > are a paying customer. > > Overall it leaves me even less interested in their project. I guess downloading original images cant be done for legal reasons e.g. privacy. Mapillary would only be allowed to publish images with processing e.g. blurring faces, number plates etc. As a registered user i can access my originals. But my workflow is different. I changed to keep all images i upload. So in case Mapillary is going "belly up" i still have all my images i still can use or reupload somewhere else. And i tried uploading to openstreetcam aswell. So - I am pretty clear about limits of Mapillary and i once wrote my own toolchain to store and visualize and i could revive that. I am still happy they exist and i uploaded 12+ images covering 1000km+ - I did systematic street overview images for the towns i care about mapping. I did it in 2014/15 and now refreshing. I wished OSM would offer a similar service integrated into our toolsets etc. As long as we dont have it we need to be thankful somebody else has build a businessmodel which pays for the gigantic storage and processing needed. Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de UTF-8 Test: The ran after a , but the ran away signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Adding mapillary tags to every building
Following is more on topic than may be expected -
OSM Wiki is illustrated by images from Wikimedia Commons,
and thanks for all people who uploaded things there.
Jun 5, 2020, 09:14 by jan...@gmail.com:
> On Thu, Jun 4, 2020, 16:48 European Water Project <>
> europeanwaterproj...@gmail.com> > wrote:
>
>>
>> Our goal is to move all our images to wikimedia commons.
>>
>
> Aren't water fountains not notable enough for their database?
>
That is a common misconception. Note that basically all
images on the OSM Wiki are from Wikimedia Commons.
Wikipedia and Wikidata have notability requirements,
with WIkipedia having much stricter ones (but different across
various language versions)
Wikimedia Commons has no notability requirements, see
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Project_scope
It is perfectly fine to upload things like that there.
For example, anything that can be ever added as image on any Wikipedia article
(even ones not yet written) is in scope, anything plausibly used for
any educational purpose is in scope.
See
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Project_scope#Must_be_realistically_useful_for_an_educational_purpose
and it is quite broadly defined.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump/Archive/2016/11#%22realistically_useful_for_an_educational_purpose%22_-_how_broadly%2Fnarrowly_it_is_defined%3F
I asked whatever uploading images of bicycle parkings
(that are certainly not notable) is OK
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Stojaki_na_%C5%81obzowska_x_Biskupia.JPG
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Stojaki_rowerowe_z_hulajnogami_przy_szkole_-_bis.JPG
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Stojaki_rowerowe_z_hulajnogami_przy_szkole.JPG
"The three images above look good to me. I would suggest short
descriptions giving the location and maybe detailing closeness to
important places like universities, courts, theatres, etc, if those places
aren't in the images or the street location isn't well-known."
"Reasonable quality photographs of identified places are
very unlikely to be considered not in scope"
"I could recommend to add {{Location}}
. In this case photos may
be
useful for external map services like OpenStreetMap."
"Mateusz, scope is very broadly defined. Reasonable quality photos of
public places are generally considered to be in scope. So, please go
ahead and upload those photos. As mentioned above, photos considered
out-of-scope are generally "personal" photos, bad quality photos, or
photos of subjects that attract people not really interested in Commons
as a repository of educational content (i.e. porn)."
(BTW, even to be deleted as last mentioned category it still needs something
completely useless for educational purposes - Wikimedia Commons
hosts many pornographic images, after all there are also Wikipedia articles
on this topic)
___
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Re: [Tagging] Adding mapillary tags to every building
Hi Janko, Thank you .. it is time to reduce our global reliance on single-use plastic ! We are all ingesting 5 grams each week .. in our fish, vegetables, meat, and water etc ... The people at Mapillary with whom I spoke see huge value in single-snap images - with many possible applications. They also expressed interest in having more Mapillary images linked to OSM objects. On the other hand, it seems that single-snap images are just not a current management priority due to other more pressing priorities. This could change ! One idea discussed with Edouardo Neerhut was the creation of a separate AWS S3 repository for single-snap images which could be linked to OSM objects. Maybe some sort of non-profit OSM/Mapillary JV could be envisaged to take advantage of some of Mapillary's technology for blurring faces and license plates .. ?I have no idea where that idea will lead .. Best regards, Stuart On Fri, 5 Jun 2020 at 09:17, Janko Mihelić wrote: > On Thu, Jun 4, 2020, 16:48 European Water Project < > europeanwaterproj...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> While all three of them have shown enthusiasm, single-snap images are >> just not a priority at this point for Mapillary. >> > > This is interesting. Did they say that they don't prefer single-snap > images in the database, or that they aren't planning to put any effort into > developing single-snap software? > > Our goal is to move all our images to wikimedia commons. >> > > Aren't water fountains not notable enough for their database? > > I love your project! > > Janko > >> ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Adding mapillary tags to every building
On Thu, Jun 4, 2020, 16:48 European Water Project < europeanwaterproj...@gmail.com> wrote: > While all three of them have shown enthusiasm, single-snap images are just > not a priority at this point for Mapillary. > This is interesting. Did they say that they don't prefer single-snap images in the database, or that they aren't planning to put any effort into developing single-snap software? Our goal is to move all our images to wikimedia commons. > Aren't water fountains not notable enough for their database? I love your project! Janko > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Adding mapillary tags to every building
Jun 4, 2020, 16:00 by vinc...@bergeot.org: > Le 04/06/2020 à 15:49, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging a écrit : > >> You have right to use your own images, AFAIK there is also a special >> permission >> for OSM mapping but otherwise images are owned by them. >> > > mapillary picture are CC-BY-SA, you can use pictures and download them > without pay nothing. > Scroll down on https://www.mapillary.com/pricing to "Commonly asked questions" "Can I download image files?" You can download thumbnails (up to 2048 pixels wide) of Mapillary public imagery, and originals of images you've contributed yourself. If you have a subscription to Mapillary public imagery, you can use and access the imagery for commercial use through the Mapillary platform, integrations, and APIs. You will not be able to download original image files. I have no idea how at at the same time Mapillary claims on the same page "Mapillary imagery is also available under an open license (CC BY-SA)." and offers "Use Mapillary public imagery" for 2000$/year (up to 25km of roads is free according to this page) > I think you pay if you want data extraction or picture package of an area. > > But each picture are cc-by-sa, so you can download and use them wuthout fee. > > Mapillary claims that it is not possible to download original images even if you are a paying customer. Overall it leaves me even less interested in their project. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Adding mapillary tags to every building
Hi Clifford, Our images get linked to osm object as per the wiki page .. they are added after manual curation using either the tag image, mapillary or wikimedia_commons depending on where the image is stored. We developed the workflow because our users found the workflow below to be suboptimal : 1) take an image with a camera or mobile phone 2) transfer the image to a PC 3) log into wikimedia or mapillary 4) upload the image to wikimedia commons or mapillary, 5) get the image file name 6) log into OSM 7) edit the osm object with the image url Best regards, Stuart On Thu, 4 Jun 2020 at 16:49, Clifford Snow wrote: > Don't we already have https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Photo_linking which > is how to add photos for objects? > > -- > @osm_washington > www.snowandsnow.us > OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Adding mapillary tags to every building
Don't we already have https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Photo_linking which is how to add photos for objects? -- @osm_washington www.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Adding mapillary tags to every building
Dear Janko, I have been dialoging with Christopher Beddow, Edoardo Neerhut, and Fredrik Glans at Mapillary over the past couple of months. While all three of them have shown enthusiasm, single-snap images are just not a priority at this point for Mapillary. Yes, I confirm - nearby images whether mapillary, flickr or wikimedia commons are rarely of any use. Also, image quality for our purpose has much more to do with image cropping and lighting than the number of pixels in the image. For the European Water Project we have integrated into our Progressive Web Application the ability to allow our users to take images of the drinking fountains and cafés (osm nodes & closed ways) already displayed in our app. We use the mobile camera webrtc, add the mobile phone exif data, and then store the images on our server. Our goal is to move all our images to wikimedia commons. Here is a video of how the image capture works. https://drive.google.com/file/d/148VdJLUROLsFAQlZ4mgxHFVmnjrMxpiM/view?usp=sharing here is a sample of some of the images taken with our app https://europeanwaterproject.org/photos/index.html Best regards, Stuart https://europeanwaterproject.org?lang=EN On Thu, 4 Jun 2020 at 16:25, Janko Mihelić wrote: > Is it really necessary? "give image for location [lat, lon] from direction >> X" seems a >> basic functionality for service like Mapillary. >> > > I almost never found a photo of something I was looking for with OsmAnd's > "close by Mapillary photos". I think Osmand only takes Mapillary photos x > meters from the subject. The compass and gps inside mobile phones aren't > good enough for this to work this easily. Directions of photos are often > wrong. Maybe if we wait some 5-10 years for neural networks to understand > the surroundings, and decide which photos show the subject. > > And a second point is there are a lot of low quality photos, shot behind > the dashboard, and others, shot specifically for that building, framing it > just right, on a nice sunny day. I don't think there is going to be an > algorithm that decides which photo is nicer. > > Janko > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Adding mapillary tags to every building
> I almost never found a photo of something I was looking for with OsmAnd's > "close by Mapillary photos" I agree I realise this thread was initially about buildings but when I’m using OsmAnd to find, for example, a public transport ticket machine at an airport, I want to see a photo of the machine so I know what I’m looking for not a frame of someone driving around a carpark. I’ve started using wikimedia_commons tag but OsmAnd doesn’t appear to support it. I submitted a bug report/feature request > On 4 Jun 2020, at 16:23, Janko Mihelić wrote: > > Is it really necessary? "give image for location [lat, lon] from direction X" > seems a > basic functionality for service like Mapillary. > > I almost never found a photo of something I was looking for with OsmAnd's > "close by Mapillary photos". I think Osmand only takes Mapillary photos x > meters from the subject. The compass and gps inside mobile phones aren't > good enough for this to work this easily. Directions of photos are often > wrong. Maybe if we wait some 5-10 years for neural networks to understand the > surroundings, and decide which photos show the subject. > > And a second point is there are a lot of low quality photos, shot behind the > dashboard, and others, shot specifically for that building, framing it just > right, on a nice sunny day. I don't think there is going to be an algorithm > that decides which photo is nicer. > > Janko > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Adding mapillary tags to every building
> > Is it really necessary? "give image for location [lat, lon] from direction > X" seems a > basic functionality for service like Mapillary. > I almost never found a photo of something I was looking for with OsmAnd's "close by Mapillary photos". I think Osmand only takes Mapillary photos x meters from the subject. The compass and gps inside mobile phones aren't good enough for this to work this easily. Directions of photos are often wrong. Maybe if we wait some 5-10 years for neural networks to understand the surroundings, and decide which photos show the subject. And a second point is there are a lot of low quality photos, shot behind the dashboard, and others, shot specifically for that building, framing it just right, on a nice sunny day. I don't think there is going to be an algorithm that decides which photo is nicer. Janko ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Adding mapillary tags to every building
Le 04/06/2020 à 15:49, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging a écrit : You have right to use your own images, AFAIK there is also a special permission for OSM mapping but otherwise images are owned by them. mapillary picture are CC-BY-SA, you can use pictures and download them without pay nothing. I think you pay if you want data extraction or picture package of an area. But each picture are cc-by-sa, so you can download and use them wuthout fee. Regards -- Vincent Bergeot ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Adding mapillary tags to every building
Jun 4, 2020, 14:54 by jan...@gmail.com: > does this community think this would be ridiculous or not? > Mapillary has images geolocated anyway, so if someone wants to use Mapillary it seems unnecessary. > Would Mapillary be the right service to host the photos? > No. Note https://www.mapillary.com/pricing You have right to use your own images, AFAIK there is also a special permission for OSM mapping but otherwise images are owned by them. Uploading images on a free license to Wikimedia Commons is strictly preferable in case of manual making images of important objects. For dumps of automated imagery, Mapillary seems acceptable if there is no open alternative. But given their model I am not planning to work for them for free and I am not enthusiastic about them. > I thought I would suggest this same functionality to OsmAnd because they > already use Mapillary to show close by photos of a feature, but now I'm not > sure if OSM would even want this. I think this would be a big advantage over > other map databases. > Is it really necessary? "give image for location [lat, lon] from direction X" seems a basic functionality for service like Mapillary. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Adding mapillary tags to every building
Hi, On 2020-06-04 14:54, Janko Mihelić wrote: > I think having a photo of every building, as well as other features like > public sculptures, memorials, bus stations would be very useful. You > would be able to click a building, and know what it looks like. I would not want us to encourage and support the widespread photographing of private residences. I think that's a privacy nightmare. If it is only for commercial or public buildings, then it could probably be done. In addition, I would not like to rely on a third-party service like Mapillary since they can shut down their service at any time and then what becomes of all the work? Furthermore, adding tons of external IDs to OSM seems unnecessary; I'd rather have the imagery service store the coordinates and then you can query the service "which of your photos show this location" and thereby find photos that show a particular building. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
